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General => Shows, events, track days, motorsport => Topic started by: smitty12 on 13 March 2012, 19:06
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Has anyone had a MK4 R32 on the track? I really fancy myself a track car this year and have been looking for something thats going to handle well but wont need to much spending, can pick a decent R32 up for about £6k these days and i cant think of anything better!
0-62 6.6 seconds, 241bhp and 4wd, what can out do that for the same money?!
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0-62 6.6 seconds, 241bhp and 4wd, what can out do that for the same money?!
Well, for six grand you could buy and prepare a fantastic dedicated Golf3 track car, which would be a sight more fun, and probably as fast.
I know if I spent only three grand on my Golf Syncro it'd make you in your fat-assed R32 look like a complete tool on the track.... oh hang on, it'd pretty much do that now. :grin:
Oh and the running costs would be a LOT lower too.
Sorry.
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0-62 6.6 seconds, 241bhp and 4wd, what can out do that for the same money?!
Well, for six grand you could buy and prepare a fantastic dedicated Golf3 track car, which would be a sight more fun, and probably as fast.
I know if I spent only three grand on my Golf Syncro it'd make you in your fat-assed R32 look like a complete tool on the track.... oh hang on, it'd pretty much do that now. :grin:
Oh and the running costs would be a LOT lower too.
Sorry.
Mk3 was just fwd thou wasnt it?
Sounds good but the problem i have is that i dont have the time to build a car, i'd just like to buy something i can drive there, drive back, stick some decent suspension and tyres on, leave the engine and have a good go on the track for a weekend every now and again :)
I havent bought anything yet but was just wanting some opinions :) dont want to be turbo charging/supercharging NA engines and dont want to have to do a phenominal amount to get it track day ready
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If you want 'something interesting' then go to Germany and buy a 2-3000 Euro VR6 Syncro, some good quality coilovers, rebush it and get some track day rubber on it.
Any £6k R32 will need the struts and bushes replaced anyway, so start on something you won't take a bath on come resale time.
Let me know if you need the name of someone who can circuit prepare the car for you, if you don't have time to do so yourself.
Your money will be better spent on preparation than buying an expensive base car.
Go mobile.de and see what you can find.
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Get your self a gto 3L twin turbo have it mapped and ur looking at 400 bhp or a s3 mapped or evo 5 or evo6 there loads of cars with power and 4wd it's just personal choice realy
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if i had 6k to spend on a dedicated track day car, i'm almost ashamed to say it would have to be a subaru.
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Thay blow up easy but thay sound gud, get ur self a Westfield now that's fun :grin:
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subarus are quite strong TBH
problem is a lot of ppl track sh!tters that have allready been ragged lots and not serviced much and wonder why they pop when they have a pikey map shoved on it and thrash it some more.
fresh motor good map they are sound
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fresh motor good map they are sound
Thats what i want!
An S3 would be brilliant but what S3 can you pick up for 6k! I really dont like any jap crap, even though they are well built and definitely fit for purpose
What about an E46 M3 CSL? :cool:
What running gear is in a Westfield? I had thought caterham but I dont like the idea of ford running gear haha
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U could pick a s3 up for 3k on a 52plate would be good 260bhp with map striped as well = :smiley:
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1/2 your budget and it's already good to go!
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VOLKSWAGON-GOLF-GTI-MK1-TRACK-CAR-FITTED-1-9-TSR-RACE-ENGINE-FULL-GAGE-/320852347255?pt=Automobiles_UK&hash=item4ab44a4977
Nick
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Isnt the point of a track car something you take time on modding your self, the more time you spend on it, the more it becomes a piece of you.
I would be a lot more proud of a car which cost me 2k and spent a year or so modding with the remaining 4k as oposed to a track ready (so to speak) 6k r32.
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You have 6k and you honestly think you could get a E46 M3 CSL seriously ?? my mate has a m3 with a breathed on engine and thats worth about 10k and not even a CSL
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You have 6k and you honestly think you could get a E46 M3 CSL seriously ?? my mate has a m3 with a breathed on engine and thats worth about 10k and not even a CSL
:grin:
Quite.
The thing that doesn't seem to have been considered here is the running costs.
Those of a Golf2 with a rorty snorty NA motor will be a huge amount less than an R32, or M3, both of which are pretty brute-ish and will be heavy on consumables.
Does the OP have much experience on track?
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You have 6k and you honestly think you could get a E46 M3 CSL seriously ?? my mate has a m3 with a breathed on engine and thats worth about 10k and not even a CSL
:grin:
Quite.
The thing that doesn't seem to have been considered here is the running costs.
Those of a Golf2 with a rorty snorty NA motor will be a huge amount less than an R32, or M3, both of which are pretty brute-ish and will be heavy on consumables.
Does the OP have much experience on track?
Not a lot of experience at all, i'm not thinking of running costs because the car will only be used for track days which will be few and far between for the time being.
My problem with a mk2 or car of that era is the lack of electronics, i know it makes the car easier to work with but the electronics help massively in any fault finding!
Mabey not an M3 CSL but you can pick up a 51 plate M3 for 5-6k :smiley:
I'm just after ideas for the time being, to be honest i would just like something decent to start with that wont be pathetic on the track (like my lupo sport would be) I will be modding anything i buy but not straight away, If i were to buy a standard mk3 it would be hopeless without a lot of time and money spend on it! I work 7 days a week and 2 nights a week so when a weekend off comes round i'd like something i can just get up and go with!
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If I were getting a track slag, I'd get something like that MK1 Nick posted that's been prepped and would just need to be well maintained to carry tracking, Then the other 3 grand can be spent on a few upgrades and a trailer :cool:
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M3 is not as good as you think my mates one after a couple of track days and fast road stuff the subframe ripped off the chassis and now needs welding and thats a car that was developed with getting round a track fast in mind.. and he lucky his dad has own racing team that can fix it but can you lol ??
Get a mk3 vr6 like DH said.. solid car.. solid engine.. loads of cheapish mods available.. 4wd.. what more you want and you could be track ready for £3500 realisticly and outperform some more expensive stuff and get your experience up before you go stuffing cars like m3 csl's lol plus vr6's go well with a supercharger or turbo and there plenty of kits available
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I'd go for an Evo.
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an r32 or vr6 syncro would be perfect vehicles for towing your mk1 or 2 trackday car to the circuit :afro:
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e46 m3 for 5-6k nice car but asking for trouble at that money,evo 5 or 6 within you price myself i would get a supercharged civic type r
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EVO would be a great choice as long as its been looked after.. Your not likely to get a good track VW vehicle for that price (thats newish anyway)
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if i had 6k to spend on a dedicated track day car, i'm almost ashamed to say it would have to be a subaru.
dont be ashamed as you must know how good they can be :evil:
would be a scoob or an evo if it was my cash
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http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/3255673.htm
Steel perfect track car :laugh:
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What point of 'heavy on consumables' aren't you lot getting?
The 'but it's only a track car' argument rather misses the point that a dedicated track car will get through consumables at a pretty alarming rate. This is especially true for an Evo, which is not only using its brakes to stop itself, but also using the brakes to keep your stupid self on the track through all its elastrickery.
The Golf1 posted earlier is OK, but would need the thick end of a grand spent on it to get it properly prepared and safe. To be honest any second hand car you buy will probably need that spent on it to be properly taken on track.
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Like every 1 say it's not the running cost or eney think else don't think he going to track it every week end once every month or 2 I got a lik track car and I only do mine when I can be assd to do so,,
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Like every 1 say it's not the running cost or eney think else don't think he going to track it every week end once every month or 2 I got a lik track car and I only do mine when I can be assd to do so,,
Can someone please translate?
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I cant translate.. But DH is right consumables are expensive whatever bloody car lol.. Ferrodo DS3000 pads which are good for track are like £200 a set and dont last forever.. Good quality fluids and constant changes and services.. Good tyres my mate paid £800 for a set of R888's and they not even the best and they last 2 good track sessions.. wheel bearings.. ball joints.. etc etc the list is endless you cant get a road car track it without issues
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tech1990 and Diamond Hell you are definitely missing the point of my query, i completely understand where you are coming from as you both obviously have plenty experience in track days.
What i propose to do is buy a car, leave it in the garage for 95% of the year and take it for the odd track day every month or so. I dont want a competition car and i dont want something that is going to be modified to its limit.
What i would like is a fast, fun easily modified car. As i say i work 7 days a week so i'd have to take holiday to have a trackday never mind work on fitting turbo chargers or super chargers!
The origional thought about the R32 was the fact it can be stripped easily, an ARB, exhaust, set of coilovers etc... can be work done on nights.
Theres no way i'd buy something already modified to track standard as i dont know the cars history, i would never buy a modified car full stop! I modified my Golf from it being standard and thats what i'm now doing with the Lupo
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R32 will be fine just not our choices lol
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dc2 integra for a track car is meant to be very good,e36 m3 evo big power would also be a cheap alternative both can be had for 3k
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tech1990 and Diamond Hell you are definitely missing the point of my query, i completely understand where you are coming from as you both obviously have plenty experience in track days.
What i propose to do is buy a car, leave it in the garage for 95% of the year and take it for the odd track day every month or so. I dont want a competition car and i dont want something that is going to be modified to its limit.
What i would like is a fast, fun easily modified car. As i say i work 7 days a week so i'd have to take holiday to have a trackday never mind work on fitting turbo chargers or super chargers!
The origional thought about the R32 was the fact it can be stripped easily, an ARB, exhaust, set of coilovers etc... can be work done on nights.
Theres no way i'd buy something already modified to track standard as i dont know the cars history, i would never buy a modified car full stop! I modified my Golf from it being standard and thats what i'm now doing with the Lupo
A trackday equals about the same as one years normal motoring in wear a tear. Brake pads last about 4 trackdays, discs a bit longer, bearings take a beating as do ball joints. Use the kurbs a lot and it makes things worse. At Silverstone the other year I did about £300 worth of wear on the car in consumables excluding fuel and that's on a MKII 8v.
Take this wear and apply it to an R32 or something like that and the costs go up hugely. I understand where you are coming from but honestly a hatchback which uses cheap components is a much better prospect. Besides a hulking R32 won't be much fun on a track, it's too planted. Trackdays are about having fun not lap times. You want something involving to drive that you can make a little unruly at sensible speeds.
Nick
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tech1990 and Diamond Hell you are definitely missing the point of my query, i completely understand where you are coming from as you both obviously have plenty experience in track days.
What i propose to do is buy a car, leave it in the garage for 95% of the year and take it for the odd track day every month or so. I dont want a competition car and i dont want something that is going to be modified to its limit.
What i would like is a fast, fun easily modified car. As i say i work 7 days a week so i'd have to take holiday to have a trackday never mind work on fitting turbo chargers or super chargers!
The origional thought about the R32 was the fact it can be stripped easily, an ARB, exhaust, set of coilovers etc... can be work done on nights.
Theres no way i'd buy something already modified to track standard as i dont know the cars history, i would never buy a modified car full stop! I modified my Golf from it being standard and thats what i'm now doing with the Lupo
A trackday equals about the same as one years normal motoring in wear a tear. Brake pads last about 4 trackdays, discs a bit longer, bearings take a beating as do ball joints. Use the kurbs a lot and it makes things worse. At Silverstone the other year I did about £300 worth of wear on the car in consumables excluding fuel and that's on a MKII 8v.
Take this wear and apply it to an R32 or something like that and the costs go up hugely. I understand where you are coming from but honestly a hatchback which uses cheap components is a much better prospect. Besides a hulking R32 won't be much fun on a track, it's too planted. Trackdays are about having fun not lap times. You want something involving to drive that you can make a little unruly at sensible speeds.
Nick
Your beginning to talk me round but with an R32 the components obviously will be of higher quality than a MkII Golf's components so they should last a tad longer?
I've said for ages i wouldnt touch anything older than my Lupo (W reg) so you can try and educate me on MkII's / Mk3's!
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It's nothing to do with quality, more size. The brake pads for instance are made of the same stuff, the R32 ones are just twice as expensive. When it comes to a trackday car you want fun and cheap to maintain. You're not racing so you're not looking for 10ths of a second of your laptime. What you want is something you can easily explore the limits with and that gives great feedback and makes you grin. This why stuff like caterhams, MX5's and Lotus Elises are loved by the trackday masses. They're light, handle well and most of the consumables are reasonably priced and easy for a DIYer to replace. An R32 is a heavy old think and will be brutal on wear and tear on brakes etc, not to mention huge full bills, horrid tyre costs and the expensive to service AWD setup.
Put it this way. My Golf cost me £500 and was already a track car, the semi slicks are about £100 a corner, front discs about £90 and pads about £100. An standard R32 runs 18s? You're looking at about £200 a tyre, discs and pads will b way more expensive and I bet my MKII would just as quick (although not in the wet admittedly) round most trackdays but a hell of a lot more fun.
Have a read of my build thread and see what you think: http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=117210.0
Nick
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Have a read of my build thread and see what you think: http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=117210.0
Nick
That honestly inspired me beyond belief!
What is the 0-62 time like on your golf? I'm seriously thinking about putting the money into the Lupo now, i've done so much work to the little car now and an exhaust, manifold, roll cage and some slicks would probably have it track ready! I might not be the fastest on the track but i love driving it, I think the 0-62 time is about 9 seconds now, that too slow?
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You're missing the point if you're worrying about 0-60 times.
It's about having fun. Get your Lupo set up right and it'll be flicky and drifty and huge fun.
Slower than an R32, but you'll be having masses of fun. You may find if you have a few track tuition sessions you can put a lot dearer and more powerful machinery to shame.
Without wanting to sound too much like a broken record, if you're doing it properly and actually safely you can't just a cage, or buckets, or harnesses, you have to do all three, or not at all.
If you are considering tracking the Lupo, have a look for the project details for an Arosa from a guy who posts as Drive Forward. He had a great little thing, full safety package, high quality coilovers, no engine work.
Barrel rolled it down Schwedenkreuz at about 110mph, pretty much walked away, although the whole car was scrap.
One of the nice things about the Golf2 as a track car is that it's lightish, with a longer wheelbase than a Lupo so it'll be more stable. It's also dead simple, so less likely to throw a fit and ruin your day.
As I think I posted in here already - any £6k car will probably need a significant amount of work done to even bring it to OEM quality - bushes etc will be shagged.
I really don't agree with the comment about the R32's parts being 'higher quality' than the Golf2. The Golf2 is one of the most extensively modified cars out there and there are a huge number run in race series and just as toys. This means there's a broad market of suppliers out there providing extremely high quality parts suitable for race and track day use. Probably far more than what's available for the R32. Because the Golf2 is so much lighter than the R32 it needs smaller, lighter parts, which all contribute to the overall lightweight and nimbleness of the car. All the heft in the R32 is the reason for the scary consumable costs - much weight = more material needed on bearing surfaces, bushes - just everything.
In addition to Nick's build thread, have a look at my Syncro chasing around some heavier-weight fire-power:
http://youtu.be/GUdKsoUn198?t=3m31s
Oh and this would be me making the case for a Golf Syncro as a track car:
http://youtu.be/h7slmZVSMzM
It's a lot harder to get it wrong, when it's moist.
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I think the word "You're missing the point" relate to everyone in this thread! Everyone has missed the point at some stage :grin:
I only questioned the 0-62 time as i would still like to have a little bit of competition on track as you were with the mk5 r32, i wouldnt just want to be over taken all day!
The Lupo is great fun and yes i would stick the full safety package in before actually going for a track day :smiley:
I've had a bit of track tuition as well as a bit of rosber gold instruction so that helps, i'd give one day a go then if i felt i needed it (which is more than likely) I'd go for a few extra tuition sessions :smiley:
And with the R32 quality against MK2 golf quality i was refering to standard parts, obviously both cars will have upgrader better quality parts this will be fit for track purpose :smiley:
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forget 0-60, 60-100 is much more relevant on a circuit smitty
basically the golden rule (as with pretty much every aspect of a good track car) is the lighter the car the less the consumables wear out. smooth driving massively helps too!
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Wow, some seriously stupid suggestions here with only two actually sensible options presented. Dont go for an R32, its a poseurs car, not a track car!
For my money based on what you seem to want, a DC2 Integra, Renault clio 172 or if you can find one a Pug 306 Gti-6 are ideal culprits and would leave more than enough budget to take care of consumables and a ruddy good sorting out before you go to the track including new discs and pads all round, new bushings, ball joints/track rods and ends and shocks all round and a good look at the engines health. You can pick clios and pugs up for around a grand which leaves plenty of budget to get a trailer and completely refresh the car and maybe even get a cage, proper seats and harnesses in. As for the integra's, well you are talking a bit more money and realistically, you can expect similar performance on track so although a good option, not as cheap to do as say a clio.
The only other option is a westfield or caterham type car like this one http://www.uphillracers.com/showthread.php/westfield-se-sale-6081.html which is an absolute steal at the price its being sold at and very well sorted but I doubt you would take such an option due to your ridiculous prejudice against Ford running gear. However, it does leave a lot of room for you to play with as its very simple and easy to swap out the engine and running gear as you feel the need for more power (far cheaper than modifying and maintaining the current engine!) so you could move over to something more to your tastes. Its even got an MOT so you could use it on the road for blasts at the weekend......
One other option that I have been trying to resist buying as a road/sprint car recently is this http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PORSCHE-944-S2-FULL-SERVICE-HISTORY-TAXED-TESTED-LOVELY-CAR-/300648095411?pt=Automobiles_UK&hash=item460005deb3 which looks like a bargain although the running costs will be considerably higher than for a clio........ Theres also this too http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Porsche-944-S2-Track-Car-Road-Legal-/320869742547?pt=Automobiles_UK&hash=item4ab553b7d3 . I really need to get rid of my liking of 944's :rolleyes:.
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Wow, some seriously stupid suggestions here with only two actually sensible options presented.
Try adding 'in my opinion' to something somewhen.
No car anywhere in the whole of the Autotrader listings is a sensible option for a track car because there is no point to a track day.
It's just going round and round with no particular reward for anything and no competition either. Technically any car can do that, so there are no stupid suggestions, only cheaper and more expensive suggestions.
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Try adding 'in my opinion' to something somewhen.
Only if you promise to do the same :rolleyes::wink: :grin: . We appear to have a different opinion here so it may be best to agree to disagree on our definition of sensible although I suspect thats not likely :grin:. Perhaps I should have gone for an option from Racecarsdirect rather than the trader but at least I gave a genuine alternative in the westfield but his tastes seemed to suit the other options I presented. Hey ho, cant please everyone all the time eh, definately something you should be aware of by now :smiley:.
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Over priced for a track car in my opinion, not where I would put my money for a million reasons.
Considering a test was done on two mk4's, a 1.8t at 260 and the 3.2 at 260 and the 1.8T was a tad quicker round the ring... Just food for thought, for that money you could heavily tune a mk4 1.8t or choose something else that would work a lot better round the track and leave you with a bigger grin.
Also ignore the obsession about 0-60 times, that's just for launch. A car with a superior 60-100+ time will molest a r32 easily especially round a long and twisty track, either due to torque or weight production compared to the r32 in mind.
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Theres also this too http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Porsche-944-S2-Track-Car-Road-Legal-/320869742547?pt=Automobiles_UK&hash=item4ab553b7d3 . I really need to get rid of my liking of 944's :rolleyes:.
Phoned up about this yesterday, I think it seems the best option for what i'm after so far! :smiley: :smiley:
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Guy at work is selling his integra type r... 200bhp lsd awesome brakes - 3 grand... its half your budget
Ive been in the car feeling the cornering G's and its on cheap tyres :evil: