GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk7 => Topic started by: master_hayabusa on 01 June 2013, 22:49
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Something I've just noticed. From the Spec thread.
Total number of GTI's = 25
8 GTI DSG's
DSG 3 Door = 1 car
DSG 5 Door = 7 cars (assuming the two cars that did not mention number of doors are 5 doors)
It's not surprising that the DSG GTI isn't as popular as manual (32% of GTI's are DSG). However, only one car is a 3 door DSG!
I am going for a 3 Door DSG GTI. My question is, when it comes to selling my car will there be little demand for this combination and therefore make it more difficult to sell?
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Something I've just noticed. From the Spec thread.
Total number of GTI's = 25
8 GTI DSG's
DSG 3 Door = 1 car
DSG 5 Door = 7 cars (assuming the two cars that did not mention number of doors are 5 doors)
It's not surprising that the DSG GTI isn't as popular as manual (32% of GTI's are DSG). However, only one car is a 3 door DSG!
I am going for a 3 Door DSG GTI. My question is, when it comes to selling my car will there be little demand for this combination and therefore make it more difficult to sell?
Quite the opposite. I think the demand will be greater because it will be rarer. The GTI is a performance car and the excellent DSG box mounted to it will make it that bit quicker especially with launch control. This will make it far more attractive to those who are chasing big bhp figures and are looking to remap.
I was very very tempted to go down the DSG route but at the end of the day I wanted other options ahead of this particular one
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I was very very tempted to go down the DSG route but at the end of the day I wanted other options ahead of this particular one
Ye I didn't think of that. Actually my car is very similar to your spec except DSG :) After driving the DSG yesterday I was convinced it was the car for me.
Had a quick look at autotrader too. Of 114, 3-door GTIs up to 5 years old, 38 of them are DSG. So it's not a bad ratio actually.
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5 door practicality goes hand in hand with DSG convenience, IMO that's why it is the rarer combination. Someone buying a 3 door is generally more interested in performance than practicality (as it is less practical than the 5 door) and is probably more likely to favour a manual box.
Even so, I don't think it will be a dealbreaker, but the enhancement of DSG on guaranteed future value (GFV) of only £300 for what is a £1415 option suggests to me that DSG isn't that highly sought after. 5 doors on the other hand is.
You won't get caned for having 3 doors, but when buying on solutions and changing every 3 years, 5 door cost (£655 on list) is effectively nil as it costs £10 a month more than 3 doors (£350/35 months) but enhances the GFV by over £400 (so you get your money back).
Either way your 3 door DSG won't be hard to pass on later, it'll be a smidge less popular on the used market, but for a car that'll be sought after in many combinations you won't have any bother getting rid of it.
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5 door practicality goes hand in hand with DSG convenience, IMO that's why it is the rarer combination. Someone buying a 3 door is generally more interested in performance than practicality (as it is less practical than the 5 door) and is probably more likely to favour a manual box.
Even so, I don't think it will be a dealbreaker, but the enhancement of DSG on guaranteed future value (GFV) of only £300 for what is a £1415 option suggests to me that DSG isn't that highly sought after. 5 doors on the other hand is.
You won't get caned for having 3 doors, but when buying on solutions and changing every 3 years, 5 door cost (£655 on list) is effectively nil as it costs £10 a month more than 3 doors (£350/35 months) but enhances the GFV by over £400 (so you get your money back).
Either way your 3 door DSG won't be hard to pass on later, it'll be a smidge less popular on the used market, but for a car that'll be sought after in many combinations you won't have any bother getting rid of it.
Thanks for your input. It's a shame that DSG doesn't hold its value better, nevertheless I would take it even if I didn't get any of the money back from it. It's just so easy to drive in London traffic and is very fast when you want it to be.
5 door looks good too and there's no doubt it's convenient for quickly throwing a bag in the back seat but I think it's more suited to guys with a family. I will have passengers maybe 5% of the time. To me the 3 door just looks more aggressive :)
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5 door practicality goes hand in hand with DSG convenience, IMO that's why it is the rarer combination. Someone buying a 3 door is generally more interested in performance than practicality (as it is less practical than the 5 door) and is probably more likely to favour a manual box.
DSG isn't convenience, it's not an 'automatic' it's a high performance gearbox. Which the manual can't match.
A performance GTI is a 3-door (body strength - less roll) , with DSG (faster gear change), Performance Pack (should have been made standard) and 19"s (handling) Even without 19"s, you would never put a sunroof in a car if you wanted it for performance!.. it's as much as an oxymoron (ducks) as buying a GTD! :wink:
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DSG isn't convenience, it's not an 'automatic' it's a high performance gearbox. Which the manual can't match.
A performance GTI is a 3-door (body strength - less roll) , with DSG (faster gear change), Performance Pack (should have been made standard) and 19"s (handling) Even without 19"s, you would never put a sunroof in a car if you wanted it for performance!.. it's as much as an oxymoron (ducks) as buying a GTD! :wink:
Hey GtG, I didn't see your car in the Spec thread? Although I'm guilty of not adding mine yet either (just finalising a few details).
I have to say, your spec'd car has some nice options. I do love the look of the 19" Santiagos but I had a budget :(
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DSG isn't convenience, it's not an 'automatic' it's a high performance gearbox. Which the manual can't match.
A performance GTI is a 3-door (body strength - less roll) , with DSG (faster gear change), Performance Pack (should have been made standard) and 19"s (handling) Even without 19"s, you would never put a sunroof in a car if you wanted it for performance!.. it's as much as an oxymoron (ducks) as buying a GTD! :wink:
That's strange, this wonder-spec "performance GTI" seems to be exactly the spec you have ordered
(http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_llj4j2s9lr1qfjej5o1_r1_400.gif)
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I also had a budget, which didn't include the Santiago's... but driving to the dealer to place the order I kept thinking about them, knew I would regret not having them, so ordered them but made a point of saving the extra money to put down when it arrives so the finance figures don't change :)
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That's strange, this wonder-spec "performance GTI" seems to be exactly the spec you have ordered
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Obviously :) Thus why I spec'd it that way :)
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Obviously :) Should I have left the leather off and pretended I love the dreadful Tartan cloth seats? :)
Well the cloth is lighter and less slippy, so definitely more "performance" orientated :grin:
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Strangely I've never found myself sliding around a leather sport seat, I must be of average size :)
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I also had a budget, which didn't include the Santiago's... but driving to the dealer to place the order I kept thinking about them, knew I would regret not having them, so ordered them but made a point of saving the extra money to put down when it arrives so the finance figures don't change :)
Good on you mate. Truth be told I think I'm a bit hesitant to go for such good looking wheels for another reason... Now this may sound like an absurd reason to most, but I just had a very bad experience with really good looking wheels.
About 10 years ago I had a brand new top of the line BMW 3 series with some really gorgeous wheels. Everyone would compliment them. Then one night at 11.30 pm there was a knock on my door and it was the Police. My wheels had been stolen and the car left on its brake discs! The sills were dented cos the f%***s jacked it up from there. It was all very depressing. Repair work and replacement was around £3.5k
I just don't want my wheels targeted again. Yes it could happen to the 18" ones, but the 19" ones are just rarer and more desirable.
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Bit like this
(http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/13211139/img/13211139.jpg) (http://picturepush.com/public/13211139)
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I also had a budget, which didn't include the Santiago's... but driving to the dealer to place the order I kept thinking about them, knew I would regret not having them, so ordered them but made a point of saving the extra money to put down when it arrives so the finance figures don't change :)
Good on you mate. Truth be told I think I'm a bit hesitant to go for such good looking wheels for another reason... Now this may sound like an absurd reason to most, but I just had a very bad experience with really good looking wheels.
About 10 years ago I had a brand new top of the line BMW 3 series with some really gorgeous wheels. Everyone would compliment them. Then one night at 11.30 pm there was a knock on my door and it was the Police. My wheels had been stolen and the car left on its brake discs! The sills were dented cos the f%***s jacked it up from there. It was all very depressing. Repair work and replacement was around £3.5k
I just don't want my wheels targeted again. Yes it could happen to the 18" ones, but the 19" ones are just rarer and more desirable.
It's been a while since i heard of anyones wheels being nicked, not sure why tbh but i don't worry about it these days! :huh:
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Gtg: I'm not saying DSG is less sporty in itself, it's fast gear changes cannot be matched by a manual, but will that extra smidge make that much difference in the real world on an overtaking maneuvre, especially if the gearbox doesn't change gear at exactly the time you'd have done it in manual. 0-62 times are identical for manual and DSG, no savings to be made if you know what you're doing, just makes it easier.
For those that like to be more in touch with the car (and more likely to drive it in a "sporty" manner) will generally prefer manual. For some people they will prefer the extra input of a manual, for others they will prefer the convenience of a DSG. Having a DSG doesn't make it any sportier IMO, especially as it does nothing to enhance the 0-62 time.
3 doors do look better on a Golf (and most cars of that size or smaller), but not by much. The Golf is one of those cars that pulls off 5 doors with very little aesthetic penalty (unlike the A3 which looks like an estate car in "sportback" guise). I probably only have some back seat passengers 5% of the time, but when that 5% comes about, what a pain it is for them, and for you when you hear them moaning about it.
DSG is a convenience feature (that'll cost you £1100 over 3 years), nothing more than that. Some people prefer an auto, some don't. It's not a feature that will enhance the car for everyone and those that don't get it because they don't want it will not be missing out.
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I probably only have some back seat passengers 5% of the time, but when that 5% comes about, what a pain it is for them, and for you when you hear them moaning about it.
I can easily put with 5% grief and enjoy 95% of having the aesthetic of a three door :wink:
Anyways this new three door is softening the blow coming from my Scirocco.
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Gtg: I'm not saying DSG is less sporty in itself, it's fast gear changes cannot be matched by a manual, but will that extra smidge make that much difference in the real world on an overtaking maneuvre, especially if the gearbox doesn't change gear at exactly the time you'd have done it in manual. 0-62 times are identical for manual and DSG, no savings to be made if you know what you're doing, just makes it easier.
Hmm..well actually it does make a difference. I think unless your gear changes on a manual are near perfect, the manual will be slower.
Have a look at these couple of videos.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4HpD5K6Qws
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRwfvnDt7BA
The Golf is one of those cars that pulls off 5 doors with very little aesthetic penalty...
Agreed. I have seen both and it looks pretty good in 5 door guise.
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DSG is a convenience feature (that'll cost you £1100 over 3 years), nothing more than that. Some people prefer an auto, some don't. It's not a feature that will enhance the car for everyone and those that don't get it because they don't want it will not be missing out.
Not everyone gets on with this DSG but this guy likes it and thinks its well worth it :wink: (go to 1:17 into the video).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Wm5RF1_3Ik
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I probably only have some back seat passengers 5% of the time, but when that 5% comes about, what a pain it is for them, and for you when you hear them moaning about it.
I can easily put with 5% grief and enjoy 95% of having the aesthetic of a three door :wink:
Anyways this new three door is softening the blow coming from my Scirocco.
My last 2 car selections were in the face of practical as in lowest sport suspension and 3 Door and as much as love the virtues of both (as in I am not as bothered by ride when alone and loving the 3 Door Lines) The times when have passengers in either passenger seat or in rear is 50% of time at least and these both have become my biggest annoyances - That being said if the Golf did look horrid in 5 Door I would have still passed, but as it is, I genuinely think 5 Door carries it's lines so well and looks great :)
I was not as bothered on manual/DSG this is wife selection and if it was a pure auto I would have overruled her (not as easy as I made that sound ;)) but as there is the semi-manual shift option by stick and paddles and it has a sport setting then I actually quite readily gave in.
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If the MK7 was not as laden with standard kit as it is and I was going to stick with 3 doors then I would've hung on to the Scirocco. The new Scirocco may even tempt me back if they give it the same kind of standard kit as the GTD has and access to the 184PS TDI engine, if they don't cock up the new styling - and if wor lass can drive in 3 years time to be driving something with 5 doors (or maybe I would go for the new TT if it won't be so sparsely equipped). Right now the Scirocco TDI177 looks poor value next to the GTD (£26540 with "free" leather) - so that leather has cost you £1300 over a 3 door GTD, lacks Xenons, colour MFD and ADC, but gains ACC. I'm glad I bought my Scirocco when I did.
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Hello there,
I've been staying away from the forum as my build week is September and its pretty depressing.
However I have ordered a 3 door dsg.
Why three door? No kids, I don't care about passengers and in my opinion it looks better, I have a scirocco so quite similar in styling as already mentioned
Dsg? I travel 35 miles each way up the m4 to work. In traffic a dsg makes my life easier. When I'm not in traffic the dsg is a great fun gearbox. My current car is a manual and after having a old golf dsg courtesy car I promised myself if never get another manual.
Situation wise I'm buying my car outright and will have it for 4-5 years so future values don't matter too much.
As for performance, even the worst speced gti or gtd will be amazing!
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Wise move staying away for a bit as it does make the wait harder! My provisional build week is also in September. Absolute joke really, especially as they now started advertising a car you cannot actually get your hands on (apart from demos).
Even if I didn't have kids I'd go for a 5 door. The Golf styling carries off the look very well, and I do care for my passengers (they are friends and family after all). I find 5 doors far more practical in car parks where they open wider, and it's convenient to just open the back doors to throw something on the back seat.
As for DSG, I found it convenient, but ultimately boring in this class of car.
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3 doors are harder to open in my garage... or my work car park for that matter!
People now deliberately park their cars across two spaces where I work because the car park lines are so close together if you try to stick to them you can't open your doors at all. Best to take two spaces and ensure no one bashes or scrapes your pride and joy while trying to squeeze out. I've already ear marked the far corner of the car park where all the other smart cars park as my new spot in October (:angry:) when my new baby finally arrives.
Meanwhile there are half a dozen huge disabled spots taking up room for something like twenty cars that I've never seen anyone use ever. :huh: I really wish they'd just survey the workforce and paint the exact number they need but no, its better to waste vast amounts of space on the off chance that six disabled vehicles turn up at the same time when in the entire history of the car park there has never been even one. Go figure.
Sorry. Back to topic now!
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Oh you should see the line spacing at the train station near me...well, the older car park anyway, newer one is a bit better. Totally not designed for todays wider and longer cars!
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Meanwhile there are half a dozen huge disabled spots taking up room for something like twenty cars that I've never seen anyone use ever. :huh: I really wish they'd just survey the workforce and paint the exact number they need but no, its better to waste vast amounts of space on the off chance that six disabled vehicles turn up at the same time when in the entire history of the car park there has never been even one. Go figure.
Probably EU rulings hard at work again. Yes we need to provide for the disabled, but lets keep it proportional. Supermarkets go the other way and make the disabled parking spots further from the shop than "parent and child" spots. I personally try to park well away from the crowd, but when you're in a new model of car you get everyone parking next to it for curiosity anyway - My first Scirocco had everyone going out of their way to park next to it (or so it seemed) early in 2009 when there weren't many about. I try to park next to a car considerably more expensive than mine that has no visible signs of child occupancy, in a corner space if possible so only 1 side is exposed to other parkers. I'm sure Sheldon Cooper gave similar trains of thought when parking once in the big bang theory :laugh:.
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Probably EU rulings hard at work again. Yes we need to provide for the disabled, but lets keep it proportional. Supermarkets go the other way and make the disabled parking spots further from the shop than "parent and child" spots. I personally try to park well away from the crowd, but when you're in a new model of car you get everyone parking next to it for curiosity anyway - My first Scirocco had everyone going out of their way to park next to it (or so it seemed) early in 2009 when there weren't many about. I try to park next to a car considerably more expensive than mine that has no visible signs of child occupancy, in a corner space if possible so only 1 side is exposed to other parkers. I'm sure Sheldon Cooper gave similar trains of thought when parking once in the big bang theory :laugh:.
Think you're right on the regulation.
Also I'm the same on the parking. I learnt it from my dad. He has to find the "perfect" space in the car park and (much to the intense annoyance of my mum and sister, and my amusement) he will usually spot a "better" space after parking in one already and then have to move the car. This usually happens two or three times before he is happy or my mum forces him to stop. If its a multistory car park this typically involves searching for a pillar to park next to so he gets the extra space to the next car. Even better if its end of row on the other side and close to the stairs... takes some time to find such a space though I can tell you.
Not often we're all in a the car together any more but its always a fun experience when it does happen!
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Wise move staying away for a bit as it does make the wait harder! My provisional build week is also in September. Absolute joke really, especially as they now started advertising a car you cannot actually get your hands on (apart from demos).
Even if I didn't have kids I'd go for a 5 door. The Golf styling carries off the look very well, and I do care for my passengers (they are friends and family after all). I find 5 doors far more practical in car parks where they open wider, and it's convenient to just open the back doors to throw something on the back seat.
As for DSG, I found it convenient, but ultimately boring in this class of car.
I ordered the three door for two reasons
1) It looks better than the five door. I don't think there can be any dispute over this. Yes, the GTI carries the 5 door well but the 3 door still looks better
2) Most importantly, to avoid having to give the mother in law a lift anywhere cause she's got a dodgy back :grin: :grin:
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2) Most importantly, to avoid having to give the mother in law a lift anywhere cause she's got a dodgy back :grin: :grin:
What if she wants to sit in the front with you?
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2) Most importantly, to avoid having to give the mother in law a lift anywhere cause she's got a dodgy back :grin: :grin:
What if she wants to sit in the front with you?
nuts, I hadn't thought about that!! Right, back on the phone to the dealer to see if I can spec an ejector seat
P.s. love the autocorrect on this site :grin:
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Like others have mentioned my GTIs have always been ordered as a 3 door purely for aesthetic reasons. Fell in love with DSG on my old MkV GTI to the point where I would struggle to buy another car without it. Looking forward to comparing the MkVII DSG with the MkV. I hear there are some subtle differences. One review said it changed to 6th around 55/60mph. My MkV changed to 6th around 30mph! Am thinking the DSG might also be a more natural bedfellow with the new electronic hill start and parking. Time will tell!
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Like others have mentioned my GTIs have always been ordered as a 3 door purely for aesthetic reasons. Fell in love with DSG on my old MkV GTI to the point where I would struggle to buy another car without it. Looking forward to comparing the MkVII DSG with the MkV. I hear there are some subtle differences. One review said it changed to 6th around 55/60mph. My MkV changed to 6th around 30mph! Am thinking the DSG might also be a more natural bedfellow with the new electronic hill start and parking. Time will tell!
DSG on my MKVI GT doesnt hit 6th gear until about 60mph when in D. When in S you hit 60 in 3rd.
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It looks better than the five door. I don't think there can be any dispute over this. Yes, the GTI carries the 5 door well but the 3 door still looks better.
Mmm, not sure about that. Usually I'd agree that the 3 door is better looking, but in this case both are similarly good looking in my opinion. I know one or two on here actually prefer the looks for the 5 door.
This is a really good thing about the GTI that I think is highly underestimated. Other cars, say the Astra, have to be in 3 door, 5 just looks crap. Can you even get a VXR in 5 door? You can't, right?
The old body Seat Leon Cupra looked pretty awesome in 5 door, but that is the only other hot hatch I can think of available and looking good with 5 doors. Its about 10 years old now, so not exactly competing with the GTI any more.
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Mmm, not sure about that. Usually I'd agree that the 3 door is better looking, but in this case both are similarly good looking in my opinion. I know one or two on here actually prefer the looks for the 5 door.
Likewise, I think the 3 door looks great, but the GTI really does pull-off 5 doors really well, to the point where it almost makes no odds to me, and comes down purely to practicality.
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Like others have mentioned my GTIs have always been ordered as a 3 door purely for aesthetic reasons. Fell in love with DSG on my old MkV GTI to the point where I would struggle to buy another car without it. Looking forward to comparing the MkVII DSG with the MkV. I hear there are some subtle differences. One review said it changed to 6th around 55/60mph. My MkV changed to 6th around 30mph! Am thinking the DSG might also be a more natural bedfellow with the new electronic hill start and parking. Time will tell!
Have to agree about the DSG box had it on my last 2 Golfs and will never go back to Manual. And thats coming from someone that was a diehard manual fan. always said I would never go for an auto. that was until I had a Golf GT dsg hire car for 2 weeks, changed my mind completely.
You also get full use of the adaptive cruise features when you have the dsg fitted. :wink:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhEKCOnt3SE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhEKCOnt3SE)
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Like others have mentioned my GTIs have always been ordered as a 3 door purely for aesthetic reasons. Fell in love with DSG on my old MkV GTI to the point where I would struggle to buy another car without it. Looking forward to comparing the MkVII DSG with the MkV. I hear there are some subtle differences. One review said it changed to 6th around 55/60mph. My MkV changed to 6th around 30mph! Am thinking the DSG might also be a more natural bedfellow with the new electronic hill start and parking. Time will tell!
Have to agree about the DSG box had it on my last 2 Golfs and will never go back to Manual. And thats coming from someone that was a diehard manual fan. always said I would never go for an auto. that was until I had a Golf GT dsg hire car for 2 weeks, changed my mind completely.
You also get full use of the adaptive cruise features when you have the dsg fitted. :wink:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhEKCOnt3SE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhEKCOnt3SE)
I on the other hand can't stand the DSG box. It's great when ragging the nuts out of the car on a track or on a B road blast but I just can't stand it for every day use. I had it in my R32 and it was in 6th gear by 30mph. Had to chop it in after 18 onths as it drove me barmy.
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I on the other hand can't stand the DSG box. It's great when ragging the nuts out of the car on a track or on a B road blast but I just can't stand it for every day use. I had it in my R32 and it was in 6th gear by 30mph. Had to chop it in after 18 onths as it drove me barmy.
I agree with you. The DSG on the GTI is more expensive and less economical. I have the seven speed on my TDI and it drives me nuts in 7th gear at 30mph! The engine is barely at tickover and it labours... That's just daft. In sport mode it hang on to the revs for too long. I'd also be worried about the five and ten year warranties VW is issuing in other markets. The smoothness of its changes is indeed amazing for an automated manual.
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This guy explains how the DSG works with the GTI:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W5tJRCQyYdA
He doesn't have these problems you describe with being in 6th at 30mph. Perhaps I'm not understanding as I haven't owned a DSG car (yet).
Also I'm pretty sure that in most engine-gearbox combinations the DSG comes out as either about the same or more efficient than a manual. Obviously it is more expensive, there is more complex engineering involved.
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Bear, for starters that guy is a plonker driving that car at those speeds in a congested area.
Believe me, unless you are flooring it, that DSG gearbox will be in top gear at 30mph unless you are a) in sport mode, b) pressing the throttle well past the halfway point, or c) in manual or semi-auto mode. (Semi-auto lets you shift down when in auto mode, but changes back to auto, when it doesn't sense any inputs form the paddles.)
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Bear, for starters that guy is a plonker driving that car at those speeds in a congested area.
No argument there, but nothing to do with the DSG though :tongue:
Believe me, unless you are flooring it, that DSG gearbox will be in top gear at 30mph unless you are a) in sport mode, b) pressing the throttle well past the halfway point, or c) in manual or semi-auto mode. (Semi-auto lets you shift down when in auto mode, but changes back to auto, when it doesn't sense any inputs form the paddles.)
But this is what I don't understand (again, I haven't owned one). You've given 3 or 4 ways to have it in a lower gear when you want that to happen. Surely that is working just as intended. It sounds to me like you want it to be in D but to behave like it is in S or manual. In the video when he accelerates it is at 60 in 3rd so you can have that just by pushing the accelerator. If you're not pushing it hard then it up shifts at the optimal time. Is there something I'm missing here? I don't mean to disagree, I just don't understand.
If you want a lower gear there are a number of ways to give you that. One of those is even manual mode. By definition doesn't that make the DSG no worse than a manual? (except that if you only ever use it in manual you needn't have paid for the DSG).
Sorry if I'm being thick here. If its just preference for the manual box I can get that of course.
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No it's not a preference for a manual box per se. It's just that the DSG box is programmed to be in the highest gear possible all the time, unless you are doing something to prevent that happening. In the end, you just give in to its demands (like being married) and leave it in D. By doing that you lose something esoteric, hence, the recommendations by most of the reviews to go manual. I have actually enjoyed my DSG box but at the same time, am equally frustrated by its penchant for economy. You soon stop trying to override its behaviour as it becomes too much effort. In the manual that choice is not afforded to you. You will also find the bluemotion system deeply frustrating on the DSG box. Every time you come to a halt the engine will stop when you hold the brake pedal at a standstill for more than a couple of seconds, unless you forget to switch it off. On the manual version, the engine doesn't stop unless the car is in neutral and the clutch pedal is up. I wish you could alter this behaviour, for example, by only allowing the enigine stop/start system to operate when the DSG lever is moved to neutral. Anyway, you pay the money for your choice.
In my opinion the negatives outweigh the positives.
Too many potential reliablity concerns and costs.
Stop start system irrationality on the DSG
Penchant for economy behaviour in a sporting car.
Lack of overall control without deliberately overiding the system. (Which you inevitably won't given time and choice)
Positives are:
Lovely change with better performance figures reliably achievable.
Better ACC behaviour.
Nowt else.
I've noticed that the clutches on my 7 speed get more juddery when in a jam as they overheat.
For all the above reasons I've decided to leave the DSG fold for my GTI... YMMV :wink:
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In the end, you just give in to its demands (like being married) and leave it in D.
Ok, now that I can understand! :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
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Also I'm pretty sure that in most engine-gearbox combinations the DSG comes out as either about the same or more efficient than a manual. Obviously it is more expensive, there is more complex engineering involved.
You'll find the 7 speed DSG models more efficient than the manual on paper, but for the 6 speed DSG there's generally an 8% penalty for efficiency - not that thirsty in the grand scheme of themes. Having quicker gear changes yet having the same 0-62 time, a lsightly lower top speed and higher fuel consumption/CO2 suggests to me that the 6 speed DSG is geared slightly lower than the manual. If I tried to do 30mph in 6th on my Roc it'd be struggling around idling speed. My dad's current DSG seems to be an all or nothing affair - ridicuolusly serene in D less than half throttle and a red-line screaming monster when you put your foot down. If I had one i'd be changing with the paddles most of the time, which would render it pretty pointless.
All about preferences - DSG or not, colour preference, extras...only you can decide.
I certainly wouldn't buy a DSG blindly, especially considering it's incompatibility with the start-stop system - you need to have a good try on it in all conditions to decide whether you love it or hate it (you'll likely be one extreme or the other with DSG).
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I was in the process of buying a manual audi A1 before audi decided they would only supply the car with s-tronic and offered it to me as a no cost option My experience of driving an A1 with s-tronic made me cancel the order.
The s-tronic made the stop start system just soo intrusive, the engine stopped whenever you put your foot on the brake, even if it was for the shortest of times and I had some hairy moments trying to pull out quickly in between traffic only to find the engine had stopped When you stop the car just to parallel park it cut out and I was constantly having to remember to turn the stop start off and just found it so frustrating.
I drove the s-tronic for a day and may be with longer time you become used to it. It wasn't for me though and manual was priority when ordering the GTI. I'm guessing the dsg works in a similar way so it may take some getting use to??
Things like this that are discussed on the forum are personal preferences and what works best for some wont be right for others....
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Things like this that are discussed on the forum are personal preferences and what works best for some wont be right for others....
The same can be said of anything from the car itself, to paint colour, to any of the options. None of us need a GTI at all, so it's entirely personal preference, and forums would be a rather boring place if it were otherwise!
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I on the other hand can't stand the DSG box. It's great when ragging the nuts out of the car on a track or on a B road blast but I just can't stand it for every day use. I had it in my R32 and it was in 6th gear by 30mph. Had to chop it in after 18 onths as it drove me barmy.
I agree with you. The DSG on the GTI is more expensive and less economical. I have the seven speed on my TDI and it drives me nuts in 7th gear at 30mph! The engine is barely at tickover and it labours... That's just daft. In sport mode it hang on to the revs for too long. I'd also be worried about the five and ten year warranties VW is issuing in other markets. The smoothness of its changes is indeed amazing for an automated manual.
None of the above applies to the Golf GTI Mark 7. One was an R32, (maybe a mark 4 model?) The other is a diesel. I drove the DSG on Friday and trust me is is sublime and very fast. I carefully monitored the gear change. It kicked in to 6th gear at 60mph no less.
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I on the other hand can't stand the DSG box. It's great when ragging the nuts out of the car on a track or on a B road blast but I just can't stand it for every day use. I had it in my R32 and it was in 6th gear by 30mph. Had to chop it in after 18 onths as it drove me barmy.
I agree with you. The DSG on the GTI is more expensive and less economical. I have the seven speed on my TDI and it drives me nuts in 7th gear at 30mph! The engine is barely at tickover and it labours... That's just daft. In sport mode it hang on to the revs for too long. I'd also be worried about the five and ten year warranties VW is issuing in other markets. The smoothness of its changes is indeed amazing for an automated manual.
None of the above applies to the Golf GTI Mark 7. One was an R32, (maybe a mark 4 model?) The other is a diesel. I drove the DSG on Friday and trust me is is sublime and very fast. I carefully monitored the gear change. It kicked in to 6th gear at 60mph no less.
Interesting that you say this. BTW it was a mk5 r32. I've also tried the new gti with the dsg box and it us no different from the one I used to have. In D mode I again was in top gear as soon as possible. It confirmed that I didn't want it and have opted for manual.
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I on the other hand can't stand the DSG box. It's great when ragging the nuts out of the car on a track or on a B road blast but I just can't stand it for every day use. I had it in my R32 and it was in 6th gear by 30mph. Had to chop it in after 18 onths as it drove me barmy.
I agree with you. The DSG on the GTI is more expensive and less economical. I have the seven speed on my TDI and it drives me nuts in 7th gear at 30mph! The engine is barely at tickover and it labours... That's just daft. In sport mode it hang on to the revs for too long. I'd also be worried about the five and ten year warranties VW is issuing in other markets. The smoothness of its changes is indeed amazing for an automated manual.
None of the above applies to the Golf GTI Mark 7. One was an R32, (maybe a mark 4 model?) The other is a diesel. I drove the DSG on Friday and trust me is is sublime and very fast. I carefully monitored the gear change. It kicked in to 6th gear at 60mph no less.
Interesting that you say this. BTW it was a mk5 r32. I've also tried the new gti with the dsg box and it us no different from the one I used to have. In D mode I again was in top gear as soon as possible. It confirmed that I didn't want it and have opted for manual.
Well that is really odd. I had some reservation about the DSG gear box after the CAR Magazine review i reference to the 6th gear kick in (the first GTI review if you remember). So I drove the manual, which was good. Two days later I drove the DSG which was also good. I took it on the M40 for about 7 miles in traffic and I did not notice it go into top gear until about 60mph. And I was not doing full throttle I'm pretty sure.
Bottom line is. You have to drive it. It may or may not be for you. For me the manual is good. But manual all the time in traffic? No way.
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You don't have to have full throttle to keep it from changing up, just pressed a bit will keep it hanging onto gears for longer. I know that when I test drove a diesel DSG and was driving quickly, it didn't do the change up thing. The DSG is designed, however, to be in top gear as soon as is possible and will do so by 30 or 40 mph and will be on a trailing throttle. The GTI is an enthusiast's car and unless you are regularly stuck in very heavy traffic, I reckon manual is the one to go for. I am also trying to persuade everyone that they will tire of DSG fairly quickly as in everyday life it just becomes a bit boring. :tongue:
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Isn't the DSG an adaptive system and as such it will learn your driving style a bit like the ECU?
I'm sure previous DSG equipped cars could be reset to learn your style again.
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You don't have to have full throttle to keep it from changing up, just pressed a bit will keep it hanging onto gears for longer. I know that when I test drove a diesel DSG and was driving quickly, it didn't do the change up thing. The DSG is designed, however, to be in top gear as soon as is possible and will do so by 30 or 40 mph and will be on a trailing throttle. The GTI is an enthusiast's car and unless you are regularly stuck in very heavy traffic, I reckon manual is the one to go for. I am also trying to persuade everyone that they will tire of DSG fairly quickly as in everyday life it just becomes a bit boring. :tongue:
Must admit, regardless of how I feel about DSG anyway, all this reading around it "doing its thing" would put me off! I've driven a DSG, and while it's great in traffic, it's boring as hell when you are just driving normally or having a bit of fun. I like to stick it in whatever gear I want, when I want, and do whatever revs I want before changing - certainly in a car that's designed to be driven. For the long motorway cruises it has ACC, which is the perfect blend IMO.
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Isn't the DSG an adaptive system and as such it will learn your driving style a bit like the ECU?
I'm sure previous DSG equipped cars could be reset to learn your style again.
Can you reset the ECU then? Say, if you bought a 2nd hand car.
Have to say I'm surprised at the degree of DSG negativity. If you combine all the comments so far you'd think it was a boring, intrusive, expensive gearbox that doesn't belong on a performance car and you should think really hard and be very careful about specing it. Yet objectively I can't see any problem with it other than some of us just prefer a manual. Actually (IMO) I'd go further and say that a manual gearbox is somewhat strange on a car like the GTI. Every other part of the car has been upgraded with adaptive and computer controlled technology. The engine, the steering, the chassis, the brakes, the LSD, even the headlights, they have all been enhanced. I can completely understand people picking the manual, but I don't think the DSG can be criticised for being what it is when that is completely in sync with the engineering on the rest of the vehicle.
So anyway, here are some positives to redress the balance :tongue::
- I commute on the A14... 'nuff said.
- Fastest way to hit 60 there is
- Gives me choice, if I want to relax it does the work, if I want to take control I have several manual options
- More options if I want to play (I like to play)
Whoever said it was like a colour preference I think they are right. There isn't a right or wrong choice here, and there is nothing wrong with a DSG. -ducks- :cool:
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Whoever said it was like a colour preference I think they are right. There isn't a right or wrong choice here, and there is nothing wrong with a DSG. -ducks- :cool:
Absolutely agree. I just wanted to point out that the DSG also has a boring side to its nature that people often forget and that the manual box is a cracking one. I'd also pay honest john's website a visit just to be aware of reliability and cost issues.
The ECU on the DSG doesn't adapt in the way that has been hinted at here.
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Ive got the 3 door white in DSG on order, im almost 40. maybe im boring? Ive had my fill of car's over my 20 odd years now, from a utterly useless astra to a staggering boring St..This will be my first DSG though..
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The ECU on the DSG doesn't adapt in the way that has been hinted at here.
Sorry, I meant the engine ECU.
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You will always have the diehard manual gearbox fans that will not be turned no matter what.
and you'll always have those that favour the DSG and won't go back, myself included.
When I was in my 20's I was of the opinion that autos where for Granddads!
This topic has been discussed many times with every incarnation from MK5 onwards. just read some of the old Manual v DSG threads. Everyone has there own opinions.
At the end of the day we are all different and want different things.
A car for me is a means of getting from A to B as comfortably as possible. don't get me wrong it still needs a bit of get up and go and needs to be a quality product.
The way our roads are these days with endless stop start traffic the auto is the option I would choose for my daily transport.
If I want some excitement I have a very fast Speed Triple 1050, and yes its a manual.
however I don't need to stop for all that traffic.
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Have to say I'm surprised at the degree of DSG negativity.
Don't worry Bill, DSG is actually very popular amongst GTi owners (see poll below)
http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=220707.msg2034892#msg2034892
Not everyone likes it but they are becoming the outspoken minority these days :wink: :grin: :evil:
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Well, my Wife has DSG in her 991 Carrera, and whilst I really like it, you do seem to drive more sedately with that box than with a manual. It is less tempting to rev it as the box changes down itself. Sure, you can put it into Sport+ and manual mode and it will slam in the changes quicker than Schumacher can. But, it does certainly take some of the fun out of the car, equally it makes the car a much more relaxed day to day proposition. I have owned DSG/Flappy Paddles since my CSL back in 2003 and have owned 5-6 cars set up like this since then. Basically there is no wrong answer and the DSG is a superb box - just horses for courses!
I understood the manual was actually faster than the DSG in the Golf with better fuel economy too, that's normally the opposite in other cars. Bit strange. :huh:
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Lagerlout,don't take this the wrong way but that 2003 csl and 991 are auto boxes not DSG.DSG is not simply an automatic.
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Lagerlout - massive difference between a GTI and a 911 though in terms of speed.
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The 991 911 PDK gearbox is a dual clutch the same as a DSG box. It's not exactly the same but it's extremely close. The CSL box is not DSG, it is SMG, it is a Semi-automated Manual Gearbox the same type of design as currently fitted to an Aventador for example and is still very relevant, if not more agricultural in it's shifts, it's shifts are far more positive and brutal and more fun than any dual clutch transmission. Hence my reference to "flappy paddles", I was referring to all semi automated gearboxes without a torque convertor (automatic).
The point I was making is that the DSG box is very dual mode in the 991, as I expect it to be in the Golf. However, in the 991 it is quite "convenient" having it in auto mode which tends to make you drive more sedately than you would in the manual.
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Fair point.I've not had the pleasure of a 911 but driven lesser cars with flappy paddles and they don't even come near to DSG.You do drive more sedate most of the time though.
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Up until I bought my current mk 5 GTI DSG I had never had anything but a manual gearbox, but I am definitely a fan of DSG now. Can agree with the comments that it definately changes up early when it can, but in the normal hum drum of most town driving that's perfectly acceptable. Sport can sometimes be completely the opposite but if you are in the mood for some rapid progress and the road allows it is great fun.
For ultimate driving enjoyment you have to have it in manual (well I do). The problem is that it takes an awfull long time to feel at home driving it in manual, and you find yourself slipping it back into auto mode too often because it's so easy to drive it that way.
Certainly for the first year of ownership I ended up using auto far too often, and I agree you can find yourself driving more sedately. In the last year I have deliberately been driving in manual mode far more often, but it does take a long time to get comfortable driving it this way. If you only try it for 5-10 minutes once in a while you might never get comfortable enough to use it regularly. I now drive in manual about 50% of the time and find it just as much fun as driving a "normal" manual. In fact the speed it changes up through the gears in manual mode when you are pushing on still makes me smile like a big kid on occasion.
Each to his own, I don't believe one is necessarily better than the other, but I do enjoy having the choice.
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Demonstration of all combinations of the DSG on a mark 5 GTI. Couldnt stop laughing at 1.11 of the part 2 video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ffdVgjIIKA8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WY_-RsJd2U
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This is interesting - this German VWVortex member seems to be saying that you can change a setting (perhaps via the Car button on the radio?) to alter DSG shift timing
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?6046379-Mk6-vs.-Mk7&p=81935170&viewfull=1#post81935170
Adaptive Chassis Control is available as standard on all but the cheapest(TrendLine) Golf VII here in Germany.
Fahrwerksregelung DCC - for comfort, normal and sport suspension
Fahrprofilauswahl - shift timing for the DSG
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This is interesting - this German VWVortex member seems to be saying that you can change a setting (perhaps via the Car button on the radio?) to alter DSG shift timing
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?6046379-Mk6-vs.-Mk7&p=81935170&viewfull=1#post81935170
Adaptive Chassis Control is available as standard on all but the cheapest(TrendLine) Golf VII here in Germany.
Fahrwerksregelung DCC - for comfort, normal and sport suspension
Fahrprofilauswahl - shift timing for the DSG
Doug, I was thinking the exact same thing last night. Because the new GTI has driver profile selection (DPS), where each setting alters throttle response and engine management. I think you could alter the throttle response in D mode to make it more eager or not as eager in S mode. I guess time will tell.
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Guys, maybe I've misunderstood what you mean but from the Vortex link... isn't that just meaning in mode D or mode S the DSG changes when it shifts up or down? Or do you mean when in D mode the driver profile adjusts how D mode responds too?
Kind of strange to have DSG work as D mode normal, or D mode sport, or S mode normal, or S mode sport, etc etc...