GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk4 => Topic started by: OSR on 05 August 2016, 09:12
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Hi All,
***Before I get accused of not using the search this is more of a collation of thoughts and facts based on my research to date which will hopefully help others in the future***
I'm looking into performing the SAI delete shortly, however I like to check and double check before I do anything like this so I've done endless reading and research on the internet and what's confusing/surprising me is the lack of consistency around what some cars do after the delete versus others etc.
For the record my car is a 2001 1.8T AUM engine code.
The following thread on Vortex is widely accepted to be the holy grail for actually performing the DIY removal;
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?4893472-DIY-Ultimate-SAI-N249-PCV-EVAP-Delete (http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?4893472-DIY-Ultimate-SAI-N249-PCV-EVAP-Delete)
And from reading numerous (mainly USA based for some reason) forum threads, two things are clear when performing this delete;
1. You must fit a resistor in place of the disconnected SAI pump. This fools the ECU into thinking the pump is still in place. Sounds simple...
2. You will get a CEL on startup due to the fresh air usually injected by the SAI system into the exhaust not being present and not being detected by the O2/lambda sensor. This will produce DTC "16795/P0411/001041 - Secondary Air Injection System: Incorrect Flow Detected" This can only be removed through software coding, i.e. the can cannot be fooled any other way.
So I was prepared to get the system removed and accept I will get a CEL, however on reading various threads on various forums there is a lot of inconsistency and that it appears that some cars throw a CEL, whilst others do not. Great. :whistle:
The other thing to throw in here for info is that the US version of an MOT would appear to include a "readiness check" as part of the test, which causes all sorts of headaches for them, however our MOT is simply based on emissions and having no dash lights on.
Now I don't want to be stuck in a place where I need to reinstall the SAI system come MOT time every year to make sure the CEL is not on, so I was thinking of simply disconnecting the pump and fitting the resistor with everything else left in place to see how my car reacts and running around like this for a week or so.
In terms of coding out the CEL using software in the future, I am currently running Revo Stage 2 map - given Revo is a generic off the shelf map I'm not sure if this will allow specific parts of the code to be modified? The nearest I got to a definitive answer for this was a lot of the US forums stating that several tuning companies could remove the EVAP elements from the code on the generic maps but for some reason not the SAI?
I hope I'm not covering old ground here, but just wanted to jot my current knowledge down as I've spent literally ages trawling numerous different threads and had yet to find a single post that brought some of the above elements together in one place.
I also hope to add to this first post as more facts emerge and hopefully post my own SAI specific DIY for reference (i.e. not as part of the bigger vacuum system delete in case others don't want to tackle it all at once).
In the meantime any thoughts or help appreciated. :smiley:
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I removed my SAI and fitted the blanking plate and a resistor, my engine is the ARZ and I didn't get a CEL.
If I were you, I would cut the SAI connector (leaving enough on them to reconnect should you need to) and then connect the resistors in place with terminal strip, if you get a CEL just reconnect the SAI or reconnect it when it comes to MOT time
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I removed my SAI and fitted the blanking plate and a resistor, my engine is the AUM and I get a CEL after 2 days.
Needs to be coded out of the management
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Thanks for the replies guys, interesting to see a split already between the ARZ and AUM camps.
I took the engine covers off and removed the short bit of SAI hose (the bit about 6" long that makes up the final connection to the PCV valve) to see what happens. Drove around a bit today but the car was already warm so wasn't trying to run the SAI on startup. Going to move the car tonight so will see what happens when it's cold - I'm assuming the first time I start up and the SAI tries to run it will ping the CEL.
Will keep you posted, something must trigger the code as it seems a bit random if it just appears after 2 days?
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Started the car and SAI pump kicked in - sounded rough for about 30secs then seemed to sort itself out. Only drove up the road and back but no CEL as of yet.
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Update from today's efforts - hoses and pump removed and resistor fitted. Can't believe how much space it all used to take up - looks a lot neater in the bay now and should make access to various bits and bobs easier (like the oil filter!). I've left the PCV valve (I think that's what it's called?) on the air filer side of the engine block for now as I didn't want to be draining coolant today.
CEL came on as warned after about 10 miles of driving but did a quick scan with my code reader and got P0411 (16795) - SAI system incorrect flow detected. Cleared the code and drove home and no CEL as of yet. I've also cleared the odometer to see if there's a magic number for when it reappears.
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Yes - I get the same error.
Pretty sure its not mileage that determines it
the SAI system only operates at engine start, it comes back after a set number of starts, each time it logs the fault.
Not sure why it seems to take 1-2 days on mine for the check light to come on.
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Yeah it's a strange one - when I drove mine last weekend for the first time since pump removal the CEL didn't come on until after about 10miles of driving, which I thought was weird as I would expect the ECU to throw the fault at the time when it thinks the SAI pump is running?
Having said that I've had my suspicions about my SAI system for a while as it often comes on in short bursts after a few miles/minutes of driving but I guess this could just be down to it detecting that the car has still not fully warmed up and switches the pump back on to compensate?
This weekend I'm going to drain the coolant and remove the hardware from the engine block adjacent to the coolant flange - also need to remove that pair of vacuum hardlines while I'm at it as they've been sitting there redundant since I did my N249 bypass years ago :whistle:
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generally the ARZs won't ping the EML but may store a fault code, AUMs will put the light on randomly every few days/weeks as the ECU does its calculations. Won't be any trouble on an MOT emissions test though that has to be done with a fully warmed up engine.
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generally the ARZs won't ping the EML but may store a fault code, AUMs will put the light on randomly every few days/weeks as the ECU does its calculations. Won't be any trouble on an MOT emissions test though that has to be done with a fully warmed up engine.
Despite mine taking at least a day to show the check light, to ensure no issue in the test -i have for the Last 2 MOT's cleared the fault in the test station car park using vagcom on a netbook.
Its a bit of a pita, but I am hoping to get this mapped out soon by someone handy with remapping ecu's
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there's actually more chance of it failing if you clear the fault right before an emissions test as your fuel trims will get reset which could put the lambda readings out of whack while the ECU re-adjusts the fuelling. Shouldn't be a problem if the car is leak-free and air tight though. Some testers will put an advisory down for EML but it's not a fail... yet!
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LR5V - this is exactly what I was now thinking of doing, I don't mind the CEL being on for the remainder of the year but I'm a lot happier now I know I can get rid and it won't instantly return come test time.
I suppose the only danger is if the CEL needed to come on for a legit reason i guess you wouldn't know? Having said that we're all running various tune of cars/maps/mods so I'm comfortable I'd know something was up before the CEL came on in any case.
Topher - I thought any dash lights that didn't go out after initial bulb check with ignition on was an MOT fail?
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Eml is advisory. The rest have to go out. Strange why they never changed the rules to iclude eml but im sure they will in time to come
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Wasn't aware the fuel trim would change, but I have done this for the last 2 mot's, first with standard cat second with a used sport cat
-I was more tense about the 2nd with the unknown cat, but it still passed.
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^Good to know, I'm running a Milltek sports cat so should be OK as it just passed so I know the cat is capable come next MOT time now I've fully removed the SAI system.
Update on the CEL - came on after about 36miles and around 10 engine starts or thereabouts.
Also I have a question - been out this morning and removed the combo valve and all the hard pipes etc and I now have an unconnected vacuum line that runs from one of the solenoid valves under the inlet mani and used to connect to a tiny hardline that fed straight into the combo valve. What/where should I connect this to?
Also I have an open ended line that comes from the evap system and used to go straight to the TIP via another one of those hardlines, I've plugged the end that goes into the TIP but not sure what to do with this one as I've not removed (and unsure if I will) the evap system.
Any help appreciated!
***EDIT***
Edit to the above, after looking at the colour coded system diagram below (thanks to a google search, noting that this is the same diagram linked to on Vortex), my random vacuum line is actually for the N112 valve, which of course now serves no purpose. I understand my option here is to simply remove all vacuum hoses, cap off the inlet mani (as I've already bypassed the N249 so it doesn't get its vacuum feed from here), and leave the valve plugged in to prevent the ECU logging a code. I can remove the valve altogether but need to fit a 330ohm10W resistor?
That leaves me with one open ended vacuum hose, which is the one for the EVAP system that comes from the throttle body/charcoal canister into the hard pipe that runs along the fuel rail. It is at the end of this hard pipe I have removed the short section of hose that used to connect it into the hard lines that form part of the whole combi-valve assembly.
I note that this section of the EVAP system is past a one-way check valve, so it shouldn't cause any issues as it is, but I guess it's putting some fumes out so am I best dropping a length of vacuum down underneath car for the time being until I get around the deleting my EVAP system?
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4035/4411150985_e2ba604b2a_o.gif)
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Just cap off the EVAP connections at the throttle body & the TIP and delete all the system.
This is what I did to the systems when I did mine-
Green -Bin
Blue -Bin
Red -Bin
Yellow - can be rationalised, I deleted the vacuum reservoir & redid the pipework & deleted the N249
Pink - can also be rationalised too, mine just runs form inlet to brake servo.
Cyan (light blue) - the engine breather system can be prone to splitting, either replace with silicone (I used Creation Motorsport ones) or re-jig the the pipes to run a catch can.
I sourced a engine kit of silicone hoses - just ebay 1.8t silicone kit and plenty will show up. The Mr.Silicone kit was good.
The opening left by the SAI pipe on the filter box lid can be capped by a screw on drinks bottle lid siliconed into place or if you can get one the Diesel filter lid is a straight swap with no SAI hose hole.
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Cheers bud - makes sense. Think I have everything sorted apart from removing the EVAP now, I previously bypassed the N249 and did all the vacuum hosing whilst I was there and run the brake servo directly from the inlet etc.
Do you run a resistor for the EVAP system at all?
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Just cap off the EVAP connections at the throttle body & the TIP and delete all the system.
This is what I did to the systems when I did mine-
Green -Bin
Blue -Bin
Red -Bin
Yellow - can be rationalised, I deleted the vacuum reservoir & redid the pipework & deleted the N249
Pink - can also be rationalised too, mine just runs form inlet to brake servo.
Cyan (light blue) - the engine breather system can be prone to splitting, either replace with silicone (I used Creation Motorsport ones) or re-jig the the pipes to run a catch can.
I sourced a engine kit of silicone hoses - just ebay 1.8t silicone kit and plenty will show up. The Mr.Silicone kit was good.
The opening left by the SAI pipe on the filter box lid can be capped by a screw on drinks bottle lid siliconed into place or if you can get one the Diesel filter lid is a straight swap with no SAI hose hole.
Pretty much what I did, get rid of everything and either block it off, put a resistor in or replace it with silicone
I capped the inlet on the TB and the one under the inlet manifold, capped one of the lower ones off the TIP.
Removed the Carbon filter and fitted a resistor, removed the N249 and N112 fitted resistors and removed the SAI and all pipework and fitted a catch can.
If you PM me your mobile I will send you what pics I can on whatsapp and you will have a better idea
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Thanks for all the helpful replies so far guys - I've been away/ busy with work so not much time to tinker with the car, however I have finally got a garage ( :smiley:) so I've been on clay bar duty for the last couple of weekends whilst the Scottish weather held out and cleared the garage for storage over winter.
Anyway, back to the SAI stuff - I still have the EVAP system to remove, but ordered a pack of 5 330Ohm10W resistors off eBay for £3, they took forever to arrive (from China via Malta?!) and I severely hope they don't set alight :rolleyes: My mate does a lot of wiring looms for rally cars so I'm hoping he can source me the female version of the vag connectors via his suppliers and I can make some plug and play resistor bits to finish the loom off neatly. Very rare I'll ever put all of that junk back into play but saves me hacking bits of loom apart which feels a bit much especially as it's all generally hidden from view.
I've done a few short journeys and no EML back on post SAI removal, so as someone mentioned above it will randomly show after a few days/weeks - it definitely isn't related to a specific mileage, engine start-ups, or running time so I assume it must count every time it want to run the SAI system and kicks up a fault after x number of unsuccessful tries.
The only thing I'm cosmetically unsure about is I'd quite like to remove the N249 metal plate from the inlet mani but if this comes off the dipstick tube has nowhere to locate to and also I can't fit the lower engine cover as the mounts are on the metal plate. Pretty minor one but I quite like the engine covers - it's a fairly ugly engine IMO with that valve cover and coil packs pocking out, even when people do powder coat the valve cover :whistle:
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Dipstick will be fine withough that plate, just make sure the dipstick tube isnt already broke.
I personally prefere the engine cover on but dont like the little cover around the inlet
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Cool cool, cheers bud - good job I replaced it recently :smug:
I'll have a go with and without the plate/cover and see what I prefer, will have to weigh up the aesthetics against the extreme weight loss due to removal of the metal plate... :whistle:
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Remove it, itll fly like a Ferrari :grin: :grin:
But your right theres no gain. Just depends what you like.
If ive got a pic ill upload later of a customers s3 thats got the engine cover but not the other
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I got the female connectors from other VW's in a scrap yard.
Its been a while, but iirc I only needed 4 resistors, x3 were the same, I sourced them from 9N polo's - on the front of the gearbox, only one per car so I had to harvest several cars chopping a good bit of loom attached. Think the last one is the connector to the SAI pump, easier to find.
I opted to retain the 'front panel and engine cover, looks neater and if I need access its only a couple of clips & 2 bolts
Whereabouts are you in Scotland?
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Thanks for the reply - I'm in Aberdeen. Been out this aft and got shot of the evap system, surprised how much neater it looks over at the coolant ball side of the engine bay now!
Am I right in assuming that the metal hard line that used to take the evap vapour along the inlet mani (left to right as you look at the bay) could be removed and the attached coolant line just replaced with a silicone hose to get rid of that too?
Resistors turned up - just deliberating over making these plug and play resistor packs. I'm a nightmare for hoarding all the random crap I've taken out of the bay over the years and toying with the idea of actually cutting some of the wiring harness back and tucking it away. I'm never going to reinstate any of the hardware so not sure why I'm bothered about the wiring?!
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All I ever do is put silicone where it use to join on top tb and a bolt in the end of that to plug it up
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I'm on the same side as you, but wrong end -Edinburgh
You mean the silver hard pipes?
I binned mine as they were all bi-passed
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I've ordered some silicone end cap bungs for all my unused vacuum ports - I count 3 x 8mm for under the inlet mani and TB and 1 x 4mm for the smaller port under the inlet mani. I've run a length of fuel hose from the evap fuel line down through the grommet into the wing as opposed to capping that off - it is a vent after all.
I'll try and get a photo but basically there are two shiny hard lines for the FPR and fuel rail but then underneath there's two black hardlines attached to the inlet mani - one is now useless but the other still carried coolant so planning on removing and just joining the coolant hoses with silicone (looks like 10mm or thereabouts).
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Under the fuel rail, one is vaccum for brakes. I need a pic as I cant think of the coolant one and ive not got a 20vt to hand
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I'll try to get a photo tonight and use my MS Paint skills to mark on some arrows :laugh:
The vacuum for the brake servo comes off the right hand side of the inlet mani on mine - much bigger port, 15mm or so? I traced the lines and the left hand side connects to the coolant ball overflow/return (highest pipe adjacent to the coolant level sensor in the ball, the right hand side connects via a T-piece into the upper rad hose.
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Picture needed, I have a Aum engine but its in a workshop and am not so cant even look to see. Haha
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OK so finally managed to get photos sorted :smiley:
Here we go;
(http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e127/OSR32/IMG_3082_zpsxslwqvz1.jpg) (http://s38.photobucket.com/user/OSR32/media/IMG_3082_zpsxslwqvz1.jpg.html)
(http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e127/OSR32/IMG_3079_zpszy5dah4w.jpg) (http://s38.photobucket.com/user/OSR32/media/IMG_3079_zpszy5dah4w.jpg.html)
(http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e127/OSR32/IMG_3075_zpsotamyy0i.jpg) (http://s38.photobucket.com/user/OSR32/media/IMG_3075_zpsotamyy0i.jpg.html)
(http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e127/OSR32/15076ef0-6e9f-4c5f-abf4-aeddd2894dc5_zpsg8ten5nf.jpg) (http://s38.photobucket.com/user/OSR32/media/15076ef0-6e9f-4c5f-abf4-aeddd2894dc5_zpsg8ten5nf.jpg.html)
So it's an AUM engine code and there are two of these hardlines welded together, originally black in colour but now a bit rusty! As I said I'm assuming I can just sack the pair off and connect the two coolant hoses directly. Makes things a bit tidier, and it's one less thing to put back on when I remove the inlet mani for polishing and refit.
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That 1St hose goes along to the heter matric via the metal pipe. Ive never got rid of that as its from the expansion and the water return on the turbo. But if you take the inlet off youll see what can be bypassed and where. Ive never simplified coolent pipes. There not really inthe way when you remove the inlet
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So progress continues and I've decided to make up some plug and play resistor packs. The reasons are twofold, firstly if I decide for whatever reason that I want to reinstall any of the systems at a later date I can, secondly in the event that a resistor fails I can disconnect and make up another one without having to unsolder or hack the wiring about again.
Progress so far is I made up three packs last night using some black automotive wire and resistors from China. The wire is a bit overkill as it's 17A but all I could find yesterday. The plan is to heat shrink the joints for neatness and order some 2pin connectors to make the plug and play connection with the car.
(http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e127/OSR32/7905B414-40E1-4D62-B8FB-32440DDC6158_zpsgmqejghr.jpg) (http://s38.photobucket.com/user/OSR32/media/7905B414-40E1-4D62-B8FB-32440DDC6158_zpsgmqejghr.jpg.html)
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Hi, I've been reading this thread with interest. Any updates since 9 day's ago?
Cheers :smiley:
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Hello mate - yeah apologies for the lack of update, I got to the stage above and have been waiting on my waterproof 2-pin connectors off eBay! These finally arrived last night so I'm hoping to get the stripping and crimping done this evening and the car harness part done this weekend. I'll make sure I get some photos as I go :smiley:
In other non-SAI related news now I have the evap system removed I've taken the washer bottle out (looking to relocate into the drivers side wing) and also tuck all of those wires aware under the front panel above the headlight. Looks a lot neater with it all shifted out of the way albeit by hand at the moment until I decide how I'm going to secure it all in place and if I need to extend any wiring.
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Right here we are folks - some photos below of tonight crimping session and the finalised plug and play resistor packs.
Gather your weapons of choice, in this case a pair of wire strippers and crimpers. To be honest I only ended up using the red handled tool which does both but it never hurts to have too many tools handy right? You may also notice I added a bit of heat shrink over the soldered joints too.
(http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e127/OSR32/444CC508-30A6-4338-92BF-110D2D297773_zpsufjtlcps.jpg) (http://s38.photobucket.com/user/OSR32/media/444CC508-30A6-4338-92BF-110D2D297773_zpsufjtlcps.jpg.html)
Picture of the contents of one bag which includes all the bits to make one female-male connection. You have the yellow rubber grommets which seal the wire inside the connector, the black housings and a pair of female and pair of male pins. I opted to have the male part of the connection on the plug in pack and the female will be attached to the cars wiring harness.
(http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e127/OSR32/E62EC2DC-329F-4849-9C5E-E7117EEA9D90_zpshnuyyp2o.jpg) (http://s38.photobucket.com/user/OSR32/media/E62EC2DC-329F-4849-9C5E-E7117EEA9D90_zpshnuyyp2o.jpg.html)
First things first, strip approximately 10mm of wire and slide the rubber grommets over the wire so it's just sitting on the outer sheath of the wire (not the bare wire). Also make sure these are the right way round!
(http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e127/OSR32/FF2E6FFE-E132-4494-BC6B-68B538103DA2_zpsosfoimv5.jpg) (http://s38.photobucket.com/user/OSR32/media/FF2E6FFE-E132-4494-BC6B-68B538103DA2_zpsosfoimv5.jpg.html)
Next - crimp those badboys up! You will need to crimp both the metal pin to the bare wire, and also the larger part of the metal pin to the yellow grommet. I think some of the fancier tools do both of these operations at once, but I simply used the 1.5 (red dot) crimp to do the first bit and the 2.5mm (blue dot) crimp to do the grommet bit.
(http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e127/OSR32/1F7ABA1B-C52E-4802-97DE-A4BC89242061_zpsk9mvpugy.jpg) (http://s38.photobucket.com/user/OSR32/media/1F7ABA1B-C52E-4802-97DE-A4BC89242061_zpsk9mvpugy.jpg.html)
Next you insert the metal pins into the male connector and clip the red lock tab into place. I'll be honest here and this was an absolute nightmare and really fiddly so I ended up clipping the lock tab into place and using a bit of persuasion to get it to sit right and locate properly.
(http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e127/OSR32/6757FED8-C9FD-4642-A2EE-A8CD59DC62FE_zpsyfuzjigh.jpg) (http://s38.photobucket.com/user/OSR32/media/6757FED8-C9FD-4642-A2EE-A8CD59DC62FE_zpsyfuzjigh.jpg.html)
Finally I wrapped the lot in black elec tape to neaten it up. My plan is once it's all fitted to the car to use black corrugated trunking like the OEM stuff to hide it all inside in any case.
(http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e127/OSR32/8CD4D846-A5F6-48B4-8293-D2E77DB840A6_zpsifpvbdlu.jpg) (http://s38.photobucket.com/user/OSR32/media/8CD4D846-A5F6-48B4-8293-D2E77DB840A6_zpsifpvbdlu.jpg.html)
Three completed resistor packs, ready for the female connectors to be installed onto the car at the weekend all being well and everything plugged into place. :smiley:
(http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e127/OSR32/C4B311EA-4548-4B50-AFDE-79FCB27D469C_zps0rwdezbf.jpg) (http://s38.photobucket.com/user/OSR32/media/C4B311EA-4548-4B50-AFDE-79FCB27D469C_zps0rwdezbf.jpg.html)
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There cool. Something i may use for the airbag resisters on my a4 when i change the seats
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There cool. Something i may use for the airbag resisters on my a4 when i change the seats
Cheers dude! I'll make sure I take some more photos at the weekend when install the other halves.
I'll try to dig out the link for what I ordered - they took about 7 working days to show up but were something daft like £5 for a pack of 5 "kits" where each kit makes a full male-female connection. Demon Tweeks have them for about a fiver each!
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Those little plug & play resistor packs are cool. Easy to refit things if you ever needed to? I've seen the loom plugs on eBay a few times. My preference would have been to Solder every connection but crimping will the job just fine. Have you had the car running yet? I'm interested to see how your 1.8T runs without the SAI?
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Those little plug & play resistor packs are cool. Easy to refit things if you ever needed to? I've seen the loom plugs on eBay a few times. My preference would have been to Solder every connection but crimping will the job just fine. Have you had the car running yet? I'm interested to see how your 1.8T runs without the SAI?
Yeah the refit element was my main driver for this, plus I don't like the idea of just ramming a resistor into the existing plug and calling it a day - it's worth doing properly.
I also had a hunt around on eBay for actual VAG plugs which would have been ideal, so I didn't have to modify the original wiring harness, but I didn't have much luck finding the male ends as these tend to form a part of the actual component and most places sell the female connections only I assume so you can create/replace/modify looms to hook up OEM equipment.
I had the car running for a couple of months now without the SAI and it does run a lot better in my opinion. I've not had it running in earnest with the evap system removed (other than to move it out of the garage to wash it and back) and in all honesty it ran like a bag of spanners but I didn't have a resistor fitted and had a couple of unblanked vacuum ports on the inlet as I was literally moving it 5 metres onto the driveway.
Part of the idea for this thread was to do my own detailed dig into the SAI system and walk everyone throguh the process I'm going through step by step. Most of the good info and DIY guides are over on Vortex and relate to ARZ engine codes (plus another I'm not that familiar with) and I was keen to pout something down for the community to see how it works on an AUM (and AUQ I assume), however I cannot really comment on the AGU.
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It's interesting to hear you say how your 1.8T runs with the EVAP system removed but with no Resistors and and a few loose hose connection's. I'd expect that to be fair. The true test is how it runs, drives and passes emission's when it's all finished?
As for the SAI system, god know's why VW created that. All I see it as is a whirring pump that get's in the way when going to remove the oil filter! lol.
But more seriously, I want to remove thing's that aren't necessary, such as the SAI. But I'm more nervous to touch the N249 etc without seeing it done on another car. I've read so many stories on the subject, but with no final outcome of how it actually runs emission's wise. Hopefully you can solve that one??
Plus with the AGU being a cable throttle and different ECU setup to the AUM being the opposite, i'm sure other's such as Wazzer can help on that subject??
Oh and I can't find the plug's you found....
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Yeah I have read the emissions are ok at least on the Drive by Wire cars (AUM/AUQ) and the main purpose of the resistors is to make sure the adaptive fueling ("fuel trims") are functioning correctly. I don't think, but would like to prove, that simply removing any of the systems themselves causes a CEL, they just give a hidden fault code that may or may not affect fueling. The main difference with the SAI pump is that the CEL will come on after an undefined number of the car attempting to fire the pump up and not seeing what it expects at the Lambda sensor. In short it's the lack of function not lack of presence that causes the issues from my understanding...
I'll find you a link to eBay later on - they come up under something really obscure!
As for the N249 - I actually bypassed that years ago but left it plugged in to keep the ECU fooled. Can't recall noticing any major difference at the time but I wasn't even Stage 1 mapped at the time, it was more in preparation for the map and also to get rid of all the OEM junk breather pipes that had split and fit a catch can. Two of my resistor packs are for the N249 and N112 so I'll take some photos and show you what I've done there as part of this whole SAI thing - hope that helps?
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Having read a few posts on VW Vortex and Audi-sport.net, the subject comes up very often, but having your input certainly helps. My other question is, that with the SAI removed does it effect the pre-cat Lambda reading's at least when the cars cold, running rich? So once the car is up to to full temp the SAI is then redundant.
But if you can find the ebay link to the correct connectors, that would be great, I've scoured eBay and I can't find them. I fancy making up some like yours for when i first remove the SAI.
As for the N249 valve, my only concern is that the ECU is no longer controlling boost pressure with it's removal. But also gets very mixed reactions on forums. But you've said you noticed no difference there. So as I've also read, no two cars get the same outcome it seems.
I'll be interested to see more pic's when you get the chance to upload them
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Here you go mate;
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Wholesale-Kits-Car-Boat-Electrical-Waterproof-Connector-1-2-3-4-5-6-Pin-Way-Seal-/152003634379?var=&hash=item23641f64cb:m:mmFO_nnJkIsvkDF0g1Fgz7w
With regards to running rich I would assume that the fuel trims etc adapt so its not really an issue? I've got a Milltek sports cat on mine so still have the pre-cat sensor fitted, I think if you fit a decat you have to have the sensor mapped out so it doesn't throw a fault.
The SAI pump runs for the first 30-90 seconds or thereabouts after start up and it's the incorrect flow (i.e. lack of fresh air) through the exhaust system on startup that causes the CEL. It's function is to protect the CAT but once this initial few seconds has passed the SAI pump is redundant so can't see an issue come MOT time as by the time you're at the testing station the car should be warmed up in any case. I'm not, as I don't think many are, that the SAI actually does protect the CAT, and if it does, I'd rather not have it and replace the CAT slightly early if it came to it.
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With regards to the n249, every customer ive done it for who wanted it it has let the boost hold better and in my oppinion made the car better to drive
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With regards to the n249, every customer ive done it for who wanted it it has let the boost hold better and in my oppinion made the car better to drive
That would explain why when i'm at full boost. Was 1.2 bar, now it's 0.8 bar for some reason, the reading fluctuates very slightly. Doesn't stay solid so to speak. My N249 threw up a code a few weeks back but I cleared it due to just replacing all the vac hoses and dipstick tube. So my N249 could be playing up? Still need to see why I'm boosting at 0.8bar. My Golf is supposed to be mapped by AMD a few years back.
But if the N249 was to be removed, does it help if the ECU has been re-mapped, ie not running a stock map?
Cheers
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You can bypass either way. Doesnt matter. Most people keep them plugged in but simplify all the vac system. excluding the n75 connections
If you want to know its inlet to fuelpressure reg
Inlet to recirc valve
Im sure theres another. Im off to look at a s3 ive done it to later so ill check as its the same to simplify it
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I'm still reading up on the routes on which hoses to keep & loose. I've read a few various posts on the subject. Some good one's, some bad etc. This thread certainly helps :smiley:But now it's making more & more sense.
I found this thread the other day on Audi-Sport.net
http://www.audi-sport.net/xf/threads/sai-removal-guide.88299/
But it would be nice to simplify things under the bonnet just to aid working on the engine from time to time. I've still got to repair the coil pack looms on mine, wires are starting to split.
Was going to order this:
http://www.psituning.com/product.php/21413/genuine_coilpack_wiring_loom_replacement_1_8t_cars_with_oil_level_sensor
Any more info would be great
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Here you go mate;
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Wholesale-Kits-Car-Boat-Electrical-Waterproof-Connector-1-2-3-4-5-6-Pin-Way-Seal-/152003634379?var=&hash=item23641f64cb:m:mmFO_nnJkIsvkDF0g1Fgz7w
Cheers for the link. I would never have found these. And I spent ages searching too
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No worries, glad I could help. I fitted them to the car at the weekend and have a load of photos. I would say that fitting the female plugs to the car harness was a pain - one wire to each existing plug is only like 0.5mm versus the other which is 1.5mm (what the terminals on the new connectors is designed for). Because of this relatively weak crimp (even with the wire twisted and doubled back on itself) when installing and shifting everything around they have a tendandcy to come loose. I gave up on one after wrecking the connector and just connected the terminals together and covered in black elec tape!
It took me literally years to convince myself to remove all of this stuff but I'm glad I did - loads simpler in the engine bay now and less to go wrong!
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If you find that the crimped wires come loose within their fitted parts, try applying some silicone once you've crimped up. You won't need much, just enough to stop vibration. (Silicone is non-conductive). That might help?
I'm a solderer by trade amongst a few other's, nothing ever comes loose there.
But I will order a few of what you bought, just to see how good they are. Once I get some time off work some when? I need to get under the bonnet and do a few jobs such as remove the SAI & N249, leaving the N75 in place of course.
And to top it off, I can just about keep up with a 2015 Polo GTI, so my car must be running 185bhp? Not the 200+ that AMD once re-mapped it to. So my Sensors must be playing up and I need to get a boost leak smoke test done
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Cool, thanks for the tip - I'll try that next time. Which AMD did you go to, the one near Lakeside in Essex? I used to live in London and had quite a bit done at AMD, but my map was done at Rtech for Stage 1 and then a Revo tuner when I moved up to Scotland.
Assuming you have an AUM engine then yes you should be up at 210bhp, mine o lay ever made 190bhp on the dump at Rtech and that was due to the vacuum system and in my case the issue was fixed after fitting a catch can and doing the N249 bypass, replacing all small bore vacuum lines with 4mm silicone. All the stuff I've done in this thread has mainly been to tidy everything up and remove anything else that could cause a problem in the future.
Not had time to do my write up from last weekend yet but it's coming!
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Unfortunately I wasn't the one who took it to AMD, it was a previous owner. Yeah the one in Essex. But when I bought the car a few month's ago, it came with a huge stack of service history paperwork. The AMD invoice was for a stage one tune and a Forge Recirc valve. The car spent most of it's like in Essex from what I can gather.
I must get some vac silicone hose though, i guess my lack of boost is most likely a leak some where but I can't find it. A local garage does boost leak tests for a few pennies. And where my N249 threw up a code not long ago, more reason to follow suit and bin it! Out of curiosity how many metres of vac hose did you end up using?
Look forward to a further write up :smiley:
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I think I ordered about 3 metres of 4mm inner dia hose - should only cost about £5 on eBay. Originally I did it with 3mm which is definitely the wrong size :whistle:
Once you've removed everything (N249 etc) you basically can blank off all the vacuum ports on the underside of the inlet mani (again I ordered some silicone blanking caps for a few pennies) with the exception of one 4mm port which you run to a t-piece. One branch of the T goes to the FPR, the other goes to the top of the DV.