Author Topic: MK7 GTI Facelift  (Read 302254 times)

Offline monkeyhanger

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Re: MK7 GTI Facelift
« Reply #410 on: 30 December 2016, 08:05 »
... presumably they're not stretching the truth as much as they used to, pre-dieselgate.

Officially the old DSG 6-speed was a smidge more economical than the manual, but in reality it is about 10% thirstier...
... then why are they only posting these improvements for this box? None of the other S-tronic equipped cars are showing any significant improvements with their official post-dieselgate figures. And the new data for the Golf R is appearing to show even greater improvements of the DSG over the manual figures.

Edit: none of the other new Golfs with DSG in the German Konfigurator are showing much difference either.

I think you've missed the point I was making - all the other boxes out there for which there is new post-dieselgate official fuel usage data (manual and DSG, petrol and diesel, across all VAG models) have figures a tiny bit worse than they were previously. This is a new box with no previous data.

The biggest point I was making was that if the old DSG box was 10% thirstier in real world driving than the manual, and this new DSG box is 10% more frugal than the old one (as official figures would suggest), then the new box's real life economy should be on a par with the manual's.
« Last Edit: 30 December 2016, 08:22 by monkeyhanger »
Whey ya bugger! It's finally arrived after an 8 month wait....
MK7 R 5 door, manual, Lapiz Blue, Prets.

Offline fredgroves

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Re: MK7 GTI Facelift
« Reply #411 on: 30 December 2016, 09:16 »
MH, which is perfectly logical - you can see it in the BMW's even more so - 8 speed auto beats 6 speed manual by quite some in MPG and CO2.

I'd agree that probably 7 speed DSG is about what it takes to make auto vs manual just a question of cost of the option.

Shame we can't nail down when 7 speed DSG is actually available :-/
Current: Mk8 GTI DSG, Adelaides, DCC, HUD, HK, Winter Pack, Rear Camera.. Aka "HMS Weasel"

Gone: 2017 Mk7.5 GTD,manual, NavPro
Gone: 2014 Mk7 GTD, manual, NavPro, DCC

Offline mike.

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Re: MK7 GTI Facelift
« Reply #412 on: 30 December 2016, 09:23 »
In my S3 my average over the first 4000 miles is 32, 40+ is achievable on long motorway cruises, the official figures are still laughable  :rolleyes:
Tax is £145 vs £185 for the manual. From April 2017, first year tax is £200 DSG, £500 Manual.
Mk6 GTI 3dr | DSG | Tornado Red | 18" Monza 2 | LED Xenons | RNS510 | Bluetooth | Smoked LED tails | Cruise | Reversing Camera | TPMS | - now sold :(

Offline Daz Auto

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Re: MK7 GTI Facelift
« Reply #413 on: 30 December 2016, 09:57 »
VW have stated recently that new fuel economy figures for their cars will be closer to what is achievable in the real world. Time will tell...

If they are telling the truth...

Here is the data for the new Golf R from the German website -

"Kraftstoffverbrauch in l/100km: innerorts 10,1 - 8,7 / außerorts 6,6 – 6,0 / kombiniert 7,9 - 7,0"

Google translation -

"Fuel consumption in l / 100km: urban areas 10.1 - 8.7 / extra locations 6.6 - 6.0 / combined 7.9 - 7.0"

Urban mpg(UK) conversion -

Manual 10.1 = 27.96841mpg         DSG 8.7=32.4691mpg           

So VW are claiming that the new 7-speed DSG will do 4.5mpg more than the manual for urban driving.

My point is that the new DSG is a lot more than just a 7th gear overdrive.


10/8/2017 - GTI Performance, Red,5dr DS

Jackie Treehorn

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Re: MK7 GTI Facelift
« Reply #414 on: 30 December 2016, 10:29 »
For everyday driving I'd agree about the PP. But, for that one occasion when the better brakes make the difference between an accident and a near miss, worth every penny.
The performance pack is an option I am really interested in. So I have done a little research.

I went onto fastestlaps.com and did a comparison. The 2 cars have both been tested on 4 tracks. On Winton (National Circuit) they posted exactly the same time. On 2 circuits only a second or less separated their times. Strangely the non-PP was almost 5 seconds faster on the Virginia International Raceway Grand East Course. They appear to have been tested a year apart. So I suspect something significant changed. The GTI PP should not be slower.

The brakes probably feel better, though for some reason, they don't seem to make a significant improvement to lap times. This surprised me.

Edit: here is a link - http://fastestlaps.com/comparisons/lni25zh64v6u

Very few of the times on that site show a driver so regardless of the variations in track temp or weather, its clearly not a controlled test or anything you could base an assumption on. Unless the laps are performed by Christian Gebhardt or similar, take that website info for what its worth...

Offline Talk-torque

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Re: MK7 GTI Facelift
« Reply #415 on: 30 December 2016, 10:34 »
My point is that the new DSG is a lot more than just a 7th gear overdrive.

The design process for the new DSG box will be centred around the tests for official consumption figures. This is made easy because these tests are still a computer controlled trip on a rolling road. Looking at Mike's graphs, you can see that the ratios have not just been shuffled equally to fill the smaller gap. Tweaking the ratios to best suit the program could make the sort of "improvements" projected, but there was probably also scope for improvement in the actual gear profiles and finishes, to make the transmission more efficient.

Whether the better official consumption figures translate to the real world any better than current figures is another thing.
Roger.

Pure White MY19 GTI PP 5 Door DSG with 19” Brescias.

Offline Daz Auto

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Re: MK7 GTI Facelift
« Reply #416 on: 30 December 2016, 13:21 »
Whether the better official consumption figures translate to the real world any better than current figures is another thing.
The problem I find with DSG is that it is so enjoyable/easy to plant your foot and let the car do all the work. That style of driving does not translate into good fuel economy in the real world :whistle:

We have a GTD and A3 1.6TDI fitted with DSG and S-tronic. We noticed that I was able to achieve much better fuel economy in my wife's A3 than she was. My wife had always driven manuals with smallish engines. She was used to changing gear then flooring the car. If you drive like that in a DSG the car will keep the revs high until the desired speed is achieved, at which point it may still only be in 3rd or 4th gear. Great fun, but not very economical. I allow the A3 to change through the gears at lower revs and use all 7 gears = better fuel economy.

So I can see why many drivers are disappointed with their real world fuel economy.

Does the DSG encourage an uneconomical driving style?


10/8/2017 - GTI Performance, Red,5dr DS

Offline Talk-torque

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Re: MK7 GTI Facelift
« Reply #417 on: 30 December 2016, 14:43 »
Whether the better official consumption figures translate to the real world any better than current figures is another thing.
The problem I find with DSG is that it is so enjoyable/easy to plant your foot and let the car do all the work. That style of driving does not translate into good fuel economy in the real world :whistle:

So I can see why many drivers are disappointed with their real world fuel economy.

Does the DSG encourage an uneconomical driving style?

Well, my GTI is the first non manual car I have driven as a daily and I was surprised at how long it took me to get used to it. I ran the car in exclusively in "D", with a gentle throttle, letting the gearbox do what it wanted. Once the car was ready for more beans, I had all sorts of frustration with bogging down, hunting up and down gears and silly sky high revs, coupled with less speed than I intended. For a while, I used the paddles to control things more precisely, but I have found myself using them less and less, recently, as I discovered that, by using the throttle in a more analogue fashion, I could make the car do more or less what I wanted it to in "D". Now I only ever use the paddles when things get really serious! With gentle throttle openings, the box takes a higher gear, but, by squeezing it open, rather than mashing it, the box can be persuaded to hold gears, or kick down. My consumption is averaging just over 35mpg, with mixed driving, which seems to be reasonable.

Having said all that, it does annoy me that, at low speed, I can switch from "D" to the paddles and the nanny dash display immediately tells me I should be in a higher gear! What's that all about!

On a slightly different topic, has anyone found a use for dsg "S" setting? Seems utterly pointless, unless you're on a drag strip.
Roger.

Pure White MY19 GTI PP 5 Door DSG with 19” Brescias.

Offline fredgroves

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Re: MK7 GTI Facelift
« Reply #418 on: 30 December 2016, 15:06 »
When does WLTP replace NEDC figures for fuel economy? Its in 2017 sometime...
Current: Mk8 GTI DSG, Adelaides, DCC, HUD, HK, Winter Pack, Rear Camera.. Aka "HMS Weasel"

Gone: 2017 Mk7.5 GTD,manual, NavPro
Gone: 2014 Mk7 GTD, manual, NavPro, DCC

Offline Daz Auto

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Re: MK7 GTI Facelift
« Reply #419 on: 30 December 2016, 16:28 »
When does WLTP replace NEDC figures for fuel economy? Its in 2017 sometime...
"The (EU)commission proposed to start applying the new test from 1 September 2017, but environmental groups feared member states would give the car industry a year respite."

Edit: here is a link - https://euobserver.com/environment/133833

"As of that date, national authorities will no longer be allowed hand out the certificates carmakers need to put their cars on the market if the car hasn't been tested with the WLTP method. Cars that have received their certificate between now and 1 September 2017 may be sold until 1 September 2018."
« Last Edit: 30 December 2016, 16:34 by Daz Auto »

10/8/2017 - GTI Performance, Red,5dr DS