Author Topic: GTI Review and links.  (Read 325593 times)

Offline Gryzor

  • I live here
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,324
  • Go white, or go home!
Re: New GTI Reviews?
« Reply #460 on: 04 August 2013, 19:48 »
Some nice finds Jim... Surprised to see the new Mk7 slower than the 6 round the track!!! The DSG box probably didn't help. Would have been interesting to see whether the LSD on the PP made any difference to the lap time...

Well, according to the Nurburgring figures, PP is worth about 1 second per mile in the hands of a professional driver...
Pure White Mk7 GTI (5dr, Manual)

Options: Reverse Camera, Keyless, Adaptive Chasis, Climate Screen, Winter Pack, Discover Nav, Advanced Phone Prep

Offline JohnP

  • GTI forum regular
  • ***
  • Posts: 117
Re: New GTI Reviews?
« Reply #461 on: 04 August 2013, 20:07 »
DSG issues keep coming up with these sort of tests

Offline Bill_the_Bear

  • I live here
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,038
  • Yes! Wait a minute... No!
Re: New GTI Reviews?
« Reply #462 on: 04 August 2013, 21:02 »
The DSG box probably didn't help.

Really?

He calls it a lovely gearbox.  In my mind I think the "problems" can be summarised by saying he didn't use it right.  He basically wants it in manual but since he left it in auto it changed for him.  I'm guessing he doesn't drive one and didn't read the manual before getting in.

It's a bit harsh to blame the lap time purely on the DSG when by the guys own assessment the car is "comprehensively outclassed" or beaten or something.  Can't remember the exact phrase.

I know lots of manual drivers personally wouldn't buy a DSG but it does seem that there is a lot of one sided criticism of it.  The only actually valid piece of criticism I've heard is "I personally don't like it".

Offline monkeyhanger

  • Serious forum addict
  • *
  • Posts: 6,631
Re: New GTI Reviews?
« Reply #463 on: 05 August 2013, 08:43 »
I know lots of manual drivers personally wouldn't buy a DSG but it does seem that there is a lot of one sided criticism of it.  The only actually valid piece of criticism I've heard is "I personally don't like it".

The thing that "grinds my gears" about the DSG is the fact that you stick it in manual and it still wants to change gears for you - leave it alone DSG, I want to do it! I could understand the car forcing a change-up if you're holding onto a gear in the red line zone, but when you're in 2nd at 30mph under medium acceleration and you go to change up only to find that at the point of working the paddles it has just changed up itself, so you end up going up 2 gears instead of one - that just infuriated me when it happened about 3 times on my extended test drive in the first 10 mins and I just stuck it in D.
Whey ya bugger! It's finally arrived after an 8 month wait....
MK7 R 5 door, manual, Lapiz Blue, Prets.

Offline Gryzor

  • I live here
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,324
  • Go white, or go home!
Re: New GTI Reviews?
« Reply #464 on: 05 August 2013, 08:58 »
I drove a golf equipped with a DSG (not a GTI or GTD admittedly) and while it was great in stop start traffic, the rest of the time I just felt it took away from the fun of driving.  I guess I just like being in control of what gear I am in at what revs and for how long.  If it were a large family-wagon with a whole different purpose, I might look at DSG differently, but not in a car like the GTI.
Pure White Mk7 GTI (5dr, Manual)

Options: Reverse Camera, Keyless, Adaptive Chasis, Climate Screen, Winter Pack, Discover Nav, Advanced Phone Prep

Offline Bill_the_Bear

  • I live here
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,038
  • Yes! Wait a minute... No!
Re: New GTI Reviews?
« Reply #465 on: 05 August 2013, 10:50 »
The thing that "grinds my gears" about the DSG is the fact that you stick it in manual and it still wants to change gears for you

Are you sure?  Was it in "M" or just on override?  If it is in "M" then it claims to never initiate a change except to prevent red lining or a stall.  If its just on override it will only last for 30 seconds then will return to auto mode.  If it was in "M" and changed for you then it was a faulty unit.

I drove a golf equipped with a DSG (not a GTI or GTD admittedly) and while it was great in stop start traffic, the rest of the time I just felt it took away from the fun of driving.

Thats fine, you personally prefer manual.  I understand that, I like the manual a lot too.

physio

  • Guest
Re: New GTI Reviews?
« Reply #466 on: 05 August 2013, 11:00 »
Can you not just use the dsg gearbox in tiptronic mode and just push it forward for changing up down for changing down . That way it should hold the gear you want ???

Offline Gryzor

  • I live here
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,324
  • Go white, or go home!
Re: New GTI Reviews?
« Reply #467 on: 05 August 2013, 11:29 »
Thats fine, you personally prefer manual.  I understand that, I like the manual a lot too.

Yup, just personal preference, nothing to do with DSG box performance itself, which is a fine piece of kit!

Can you not just use the dsg gearbox in tiptronic mode and just push it forward for changing up down for changing down . That way it should hold the gear you want ???

From what I remember, when you change manually (either via paddles or tiptronic) it hold the gear you want for a bit, but then selects the appropriate one for the speed you are doing.  Don't quote me though, I'm sure owners on here will clarify!
Pure White Mk7 GTI (5dr, Manual)

Options: Reverse Camera, Keyless, Adaptive Chasis, Climate Screen, Winter Pack, Discover Nav, Advanced Phone Prep

Offline Bill_the_Bear

  • I live here
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,038
  • Yes! Wait a minute... No!
Re: New GTI Reviews?
« Reply #468 on: 05 August 2013, 11:30 »
Can you not just use the dsg gearbox in tiptronic mode and just push it forward for changing up down for changing down . That way it should hold the gear you want ???

Exactly.  I think monkeyhanger must have had it in D and used the paddles to override without realising this only gives him 30 seconds of control before it returns to D.  Or possibly his unit was faulty.  The guy in the video Jimble posted makes the same mistake.  He uses the paddles to override, but doesn't realise when the box has taken control again.  Just shows even professionals can use it wrong if they aren't used to it.  (EDIT: actually seems like he had it in S but tried to shift when the box had just made the shift anyway).  For those of us who have ordered a DSG we're not likely to make that mistake because we're using the car everyday, not just a one off drive.

All the criticism of the DSG I have seen has fallen into one of two categories:

1) I prefer a manual transmission.
2) I'm using the DSG wrong.

Basically neither of these are actually criticisms.  This isn't a criticism of the manual boys either.  I completely understand how if you prefer a manual box and you test drive a DSG you're going to find it irritating.  The problem is this results in a LOT of "DSG is bad" type of comments when really what they mean is "I don't like DSG" or "I used it wrong" (they probably didn't realise they used it wrong).  Look at it this way, how many people get in a car for the first time and drive away without stalling?  We all stall the first time.  It would obviously be wrong to then say "I tried to pull away and the car just jerked and the engine cut out, I conclude cars are horrible to drive".  So why do people conclude when they have a bad experience with a DSG that it is the DSGs fault?  Clearly if it was really that bad it would never be sold.  You have to learn to use it, and if you don't want to then that's ok, there is the manual box.

I also disagree with Gryzor's idea that a DSG should not be on a GTI.  Clearly opinions will vary and I am certainly not advocating that the GTI should not have a manual.  However, the whole car is full of new technology with advanced electronics... so why do people think its wrong for that to extend into the gearbox?  Virtually every other part of the car has computerised electronics, from the engine to the rain sensors, it makes complete sense to update gearbox technology too.  Furthermore the DSG is faster!  Isn't that what you'd want on a GTI?  Gotta remember the DSG was available on the GTI way before the rest of the Golf range.  It was intended for this kind of car.  This is of course my opinion.

So like I said, I can understand that some of us prefer a manual, there is nothing wrong with that, and I agree that manual should be the default option.  Having a DSG options makes complete sense and for those of us that go in for that and learn to use it we can fully expect it to be a great bit of kit in all circumstances.

From what I remember, when you change manually (either via paddles or tiptronic) it hold the gear you want for a bit, but then selects the appropriate one for the speed you are doing.  Don't quote me though, I'm sure owners on here will clarify!

Paddles yes.  Manual (tiptronic mode) no (except for red line or stall).
« Last Edit: 05 August 2013, 11:35 by Bill_the_Bear »

Offline monkeyhanger

  • Serious forum addict
  • *
  • Posts: 6,631
Re: New GTI Reviews?
« Reply #469 on: 05 August 2013, 11:34 »
Can you not just use the dsg gearbox in tiptronic mode and just push it forward for changing up down for changing down . That way it should hold the gear you want ???

Exactly.  I think monkeyhanger must have had it in D and used the paddles to override without realising this only gives him 30 seconds of control before it returns to D. 

The stick was slotted over to the left (or was it the right?) of D, assured by the dealer before I set off that this was full manual control with override only kicking in if you were in danger of frigging the car with an attempted change. I expected the car to let me change up and down as I saw fit in this mode.
Whey ya bugger! It's finally arrived after an 8 month wait....
MK7 R 5 door, manual, Lapiz Blue, Prets.