GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk7 => Topic started by: Adam T7 on 07 February 2022, 18:23
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Hi All, 2 questions (1) will my MY2019 GYI PP have one fitted and (2) in reality, how frequent is failure of the bag?
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https://www.vwroc.com/forums/topic/34794-coolant-tank-potential-issue/
Best way to see if yours has one is to siphon the coolant out of the expansion tank, it makes it easier to see/feel IMO, and you'll see it/feel it where i've marked.
(https://i.postimg.cc/KvJsKNgS/Untitled.png) (https://postimages.org/)
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Thanks, I popped my finger early and I can feel a gauze so I’m assuming I have one. So, worth removing? - I assume all MK7’s have them, not just GTI’s so wonder what the failure rate is?
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Pretty sure the expansion tank has "MIT SILIKAT" printed on the side if it has it.
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I removed mine as small as the risk may be of the bag rupturing, it then blocks up the heater matrix.
VW did away with the silica bag, which "tops up" the antifreeze, in later model years anyway and changed the spec of the anti freeze to compensate.
All very good if it fails whilst in warranty, but out of warranty and your looking at a big bill, and i personally wouldn't want anyone removing the dash in my car.
I would rather top up the anti freeze every couple of years than potentially have to have the heater matrix replaced and all the associated problems that will inevitably come with having the dashboard out.
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Pretty sure the expansion tank has "MIT SILIKAT" printed on the side if it has it.
Yep, mine has MIT SILIKAT printed on the side and had the silica bag inside.
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I am pretty sure my car (MY2020) , does not have the silica bag, as Madstaff alluded to. I will double check though!
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My 2020MY Polo GTI+ doesn’t have the silica bag. I can remember someone over on the Polo forum posting a picture of the expansion tank on their car (a 2019MY GTI+) and that did have ‘Mit Silikat’ printed on the side of it.
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Pretty sure the expansion tank has "MIT SILIKAT" printed on the side if it has it.
Yep, mine has MIT SILIKAT printed on the side and had the silica bag inside.
Ditto
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Is it easily removed and is there a risk of tearing it open in the process?
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Is it easily removed and is there a risk of tearing it open in the process?
If your gonna remove it, firstly i would clamp off the feed pipe on the bottom of the expansion tank, then if you do tear it trying to remove it just take the tank off and wash it out.
The bags themselves are quite tough, and i found it easier siphoning the coolant out first to make it easier to see what I was doing, the hardest part is manoeuvring it out the neck of the expansion tank.
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Thats helpful, thanks
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I’ve just ordered a non Silica bottle £35. I dont want to risk tearing it as I pull it out.
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I’ve just ordered a non Silica bottle £35. I dont want to risk tearing it as I pull it out.
Why? The old bottle is easy to remove.Clamp the pipe as close to the bottle as you can, then undo the bottle clips and sensor plug and pipe clip. Then you can rotate the bottle so non is spilled when you remove the pipe. Tip the coolant into a pot remove silicone bag, if it splits rinse out the bottle.
Then replace bottle, zero risk and only an eggcup of coolant lost and best of all totally free.
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Thanks for the advice but I’ll stick with my plan.
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Hi All, 2 questions (1) will my MY2019 GYI PP have one fitted and (2) in reality, how frequent is failure of the bag?
I'm pretty sure this issue affects the TDI's mostly and very rare on petrol cars. Happy to be corrected if thats wrong info
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I’m happy to change it out, better safe than sorry 👍
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Ya I see no point in taking this out. Mine is a 2013 and no issues, it’s there for a reason.
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It's interesting that one of the earlier posters said that it appears VW have stopped this practise on new cars. Does that mean they have reverted back to G12 coolant from G13 ?
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IIRC I think the coolant specified is called something like G12 EVO now.
https://forums.ross-tech.com/index.php?threads/20182/
All very confusing, but then i saw this post by Steve Cresswell/Crasher at CR Enterprises in Nottingham who is probably the most super knowledgable guy when it comes to VW.
https://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php/197007-Heater-problems
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VW did away with the silica bag, which "tops up" the antifreeze, in later model years anyway and changed the spec of the anti freeze to compensate.
Interesting thread. I’m inclined to leave mine, because I get the impression risk of rupture is extremely small- and not worth worrying about.
Did vw do away with the bags because a different coolant was available or because the bags were causing problems?
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IIRC I think the coolant specified is called something like G12 EVO now.
https://forums.ross-tech.com/index.php?threads/20182/
All very confusing, but then i saw this post by Steve Cresswell/Crasher at CR Enterprises in Nottingham who is probably the most super knowledgable guy when it comes to VW.
https://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php/197007-Heater-problems
Thanks, useful links. 👍
G12 evo seems to be the way to go as compatible with most earlier versions.
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All sorted, new bottle fitted in 10 mins.
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All sorted, new bottle fitted in 10 mins.
Did the old bottle have a silica bag inside??
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All sorted, new bottle fitted in 10 mins.
Did the old bottle have a silica bag inside??
Yes, un-damaged but I feel happier now it’s gone.
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Not sure about saying that cars post 2017 all are filled with G12EVO.... the online and paper handbook with my 2019 car still says to use G13.
"The cooling system is filled at the factory with a mixture of specially prepared water and at least 40% coolant additive G 13 (TL-VW 774 J)"
"When refilling the coolant, a mixture of distilled water and at least 40% coolant additive G 13 or G 12 plus-plus (TL-VW 774 G) (both of which are dyed purple) must be used in order to obtain the optimum corrosion protection →"
Taken direct from the handbook
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Same as mine. Mine’s a late 2018 car with the bag, and g13.
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Ditto (though now bagless)
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Ditto. Mid 2019 build.
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Ive looked into the expansion tank and cannot see the bag, yet I have Mit Silikat written on the bottle :huh:
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Ive looked into the expansion tank and cannot see the bag, yet I have Mit Silikat written on the bottle :huh:
Best way to see if you have one is to syphon the coolant out of the expansion tank like I explained earlier in the thread.
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Ive looked into the expansion tank and cannot see the bag, yet I have Mit Silikat written on the bottle :huh:
Best way to see if you have one is to syphon the coolant out of the expansion tank like I explained earlier in the thread.
Yes I saw that, but it seems there is no space for a bag in there?
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Where the 2 prongs for the level sensor end in the coolant you'll feel it there if its got one.
Best way is to syphon though, you'll see it then.
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Cheers will check it out asap I think
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My 2017 CS had one, so did my mates next door at work in his 2016 R.
Removed both of them, once I knew where it was it took about 2 mins to do the R.
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Can you describe where in the tank it is please?
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Standing at the front of the car it's around the 2 o'clock position and toward the outside of the tank.
You'll do well to feel it unless you've got long fingers.
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Standing at the front of the car it's around the 2 o'clock position and toward the outside of the tank.
You'll do well to feel it unless you've got long fingers.
Thanks, how do you pull it out?
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Just removed mine a couple of days ago. Dead easy, much easier than I was expecting. Long nose pliers and VERY gently wiggle it until you can get hold with fingers. The corners of the bag are quite stiff and take a little wiggling to get it out.
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Just removed mine a couple of days ago. Dead easy, much easier than I was expecting. Long nose pliers and VERY gently wiggle it until you can get hold with fingers. The corners of the bag are quite stiff and take a little wiggling to get it out.
Thanks, going to try this in the morning
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Before you start messing around I highly recommend you clamp off the feed pipe that comes out the bottom of the rank, that way if the bag ruptures whilst your trying to pull it out it stops the contents of the bag entering the cooling system.
You can then remove the tank and flush it out.
I used a pair of forceps to remove the ones I did, but a long nose pair of pliers may work.
You'll have to do a bit of manoeuvring to get it out through the neck, but don't be shy as the bags are pretty tough.
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I will do that thanks, did you remove the tank altogether to get it out?
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No, just fished it out, clamped off the pipe just in case.
Although, it may be just as quick removing the tank if your not so sure how to get it out just to be on the safe side.
Syphon the coolant out, clamp both the pipes off, unplug the level sender, remove the tank, then pull the bag out.
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Seems simple thanks :laugh:
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It really is, once you've done it you'll realise you've spent more time talking about doing it than actually doing it. :smiley:
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This is all very weird I checked, and I cannot see the bag, I checked my brothers TCR and can see the bag in his, his coolant tank is different to ours as ours has plastic around the inner bottle :undecided:
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Yours may have the not so common twin-walled expansion tank where I think the bag is held between the inner and outer walls.
Pinched off Briskoda..
Removed a double walled mit silikat tank (part number ends in a ) and replaced it with a new M which is without along with mixing up fresh g13 to replace the old that was removed.
few interesting points...
That A suffix tank has a silicate container and a second mesh outside when I cut the old tank open.
The outer was intact, but the inner mesh was starting to degrade allowing a few crystals between the meshes, but still trapped safely.
The old tank has sensor prongs covered in plastic, the new just metal.
The tea bag style bags, it looks to me as if coolant movement could potentially catch the bag on these relatively fine prongs allowing them to damage the bag. Possibly the start of the problem.
either way, I think the older tanks are probably a safer design, but not infallible. The newer tea bag tanks seem like a bean counter design that’s backfired.
The basic M revision tank and replacing coolant at every water pump change is probably better for cars out of warranty. Changing coolant more frequently, eg every 2-3 years along with brake fluid would probably be good for additional piece of mind.
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Ah sh@t yes, it is like twin wall, so it does have one in there then, does anyone know the replacement part number for a new expansion tank?
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According to this page https://www.akstuning.co.uk/shop/home/1589-genuine-vag-coolant-header-expansion-tank-no-silicone-packet-5q0121407m.html (https://www.akstuning.co.uk/shop/home/1589-genuine-vag-coolant-header-expansion-tank-no-silicone-packet-5q0121407m.html)
it's 5Q0121407M
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Do all the people removing the silica bag realise you need to change the coolant more frequently?
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Isn't that why the thermostat housing is such a poor design?! To force owners to change the coolant everytime it breaks..:whistle:
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Absolutley, just need to check the G13 concentration, easy compared to having to take the dash out if the matrix gets blocked (or worse)🙄
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Well I've gone and done it this afternoon!
I was checking the car over after a week away in Pembroke and thought I'd see how obvious it was.... felt it with my gloved finger and could move right to the opening... then thought ok I'll go for it.
Definitely needed a pair of artery forceps (joys of working in the NHS) to grab hold of it.... boy it's big... square bag coming out of round hole... had a few moments when I thought of giving up as really did have give it a tug to get it out.
Just to say I managed 49.9 mpg on the way down from Kent and 47.8 on the way back but I couldn't believe how cheap fuel is down there.... used half a tank to get down there and the local Shell had v-power at £1.69, on the way back another top-up and it had gone down to £1.60! Regular unleaded was £1.43 and diesel £1.69.
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Definitely needed a pair of artery forceps (joys of working in the NHS)
LOL, exactly what I used!!
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I used forceps too, I have them as I often go Pike fishing.
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Fished this bad boy out today. Bit fiddly to get lined with cap to pull up. Bit of wiggle an squeeze to get out. Coolant level on the minimum so will have to get a top up. Happy to finally have done. 👍🏻
(https://i.postimg.cc/3J5HsQRF/D5-D86-B33-0852-47-DD-B7-E7-439853593856.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/8sH3v3L7)
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Recently bought a 2010 GTI PP for my wife. It has the 'Mit Silica' stamped on the reservoir.
Isnt it as easy to take the tank off, puncture the bag to release the crystale, flush them out and then remove empty bag?
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Recently bought a 2010 GTI PP for my wife. It has the 'Mit Silica' stamped on the reservoir.
Isnt it as easy to take the tank off, puncture the bag to release the crystale, flush them out and then remove empty bag?
Its just as easy to clamp off the pipes in case the bag ruptures and fish it out.
Ive done a few now and its really simple, i think people just get a bit nervous about doing it to their own car.
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Recently bought a 2010 GTI PP for my wife. It has the 'Mit Silica' stamped on the reservoir.
Isnt it as easy to take the tank off, puncture the bag to release the crystale, flush them out and then remove empty bag?
i dont think theres such a thing as a Mk 6 2010 PP?
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Recently bought a 2010 GTI PP for my wife. It has the 'Mit Silica' stamped on the reservoir.
Isnt it as easy to take the tank off, puncture the bag to release the crystale, flush them out and then remove empty bag?
i dont think theres such a thing as a Mk 6 2010 PP?
I think you might be correct. I meant a 2019 GTi PP. Just testing,glad you spotted the deliberate mistake! :)
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Recently bought a 2010 GTI PP for my wife. It has the 'Mit Silica' stamped on the reservoir.
Isnt it as easy to take the tank off, puncture the bag to release the crystale, flush them out and then remove empty bag?
i dont think theres such a thing as a Mk 6 2010 PP?
:wink: :wink:
I think you might be correct. I meant a 2019 GTi PP. Just testing,glad you spotted the deliberate mistake! :)
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Recently bought a 2010 GTI PP for my wife. It has the 'Mit Silica' stamped on the reservoir.
Isnt it as easy to take the tank off, puncture the bag to release the crystale, flush them out and then remove empty bag?
i dont think theres such a thing as a Mk 6 2010 PP?
I just bought a new coolant tank, about £30 ISTR. The bag allegedly helps prevent the G13 antifreeze degenerate over time, tested mine the other day and it’s still good enough down to -37. I still siphon the tank out every few months and top up with neat G13 though - a 2 minute job.
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I guess you would have to confirm a link between the coolants anti-freeze property (which you can test for) and its continued ability to provide anti-corrosion protection.
Also as others have mentioned the bag was removed by VW late 2019/20 - why was this?
Did they recognise a problem so removed it?
What have they replaced it with if it was needed in the first place - is a coolant change now part of the schedule rather than being sealed for life?
Maybe the newer coolant version has been improved - although I still can't find the Evo version in anything other than a pre-diluted version.
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I guess you would have to confirm a link between the coolants anti-freeze property (which you can test for) and its continued ability to provide anti-corrosion protection.
Also as others have mentioned the bag was removed by VW late 2019/20 - why was this?
Did they recognise a problem so removed it?
What have they replaced it with if it was needed in the first place - is a coolant change now part of the schedule rather than being sealed for life?
Maybe the newer coolant version has been improved - although I still can't find the Evo version in anything other than a pre-diluted version.
G13 has a greater % of Glycerin vs. G12 and it is that which deteriorates, hence periodically siphoning out and topping up with neat G13 to maintain the overall effectiveness.
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I guess you would have to confirm a link between the coolants anti-freeze property (which you can test for) and its continued ability to provide anti-corrosion protection.
Also as others have mentioned the bag was removed by VW late 2019/20 - why was this?
Did they recognise a problem so removed it?
What have they replaced it with if it was needed in the first place - is a coolant change now part of the schedule rather than being sealed for life?
Maybe the newer coolant version has been improved - although I still can't find the Evo version in anything other than a pre-diluted version.
G13 has a greater % of Glycerin vs. G12 and it is that which deteriorates, hence periodically siphoning out and topping up with neat G13 to maintain the overall effectiveness.
I think you are confused here but im open to be corrected. G12 Evo is newer than G13 and it is the G12 evo that was newly developed to not corrode latest radiator / heat exchanger constructions. My understanding is that you can pretty much put G12++, G13, or G12evo in whatever. Except the latest vehicles that require G12evo; use only G12evo in those.
G13 is Glycerine based and comes as a concentrate you dilute with distilled water (also discontinued I think).
G12evo is confusing also Glycerine based and the latest and greatest. Its basically G13 with additional Phosphate additives (P-Si-OAT). You are not meant to dilute this, hence the higher sale price.
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Not sure about the G12 evo, never heard of it until this thread got resurrected but sounds like it makes sense. I know G13 is still available, I bought some last month.
I guess the bag / no bag debate will continue to pop up but one thing we all have in common on this thread is fact that regular care and attention pays dividends.
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Not sure about the G12 evo, never heard of it until this thread got resurrected but sounds like it makes sense. I know G13 is still available, I bought some last month.
I guess the bag / no bag debate will continue to pop up but one thing we all have in common on this thread is fact that regular care and attention pays dividends.
Agreed :nerd: