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Model specific boards => Golf mk7 => Topic started by: mb on 12 December 2020, 09:52
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Hi all
Changed my Mk7 for a 7.5 earlier in the week and the stop/start seems to work a bit different and just wanted to know if it's the norm. Both are DSG.
As I'm coming to a stop, maybe 2mph, the stop/start kicks in and switches the engine off but as I'm still moving it restarts straight away. Doesn't do it every time though. Mentioned it to the salesman and he said it's just how the system has evolved over time and it's the system pre-empting the car stopping. They are willing to check it out as I've got to go back for another issue but just wanted to know if that's what it now does.
I also find the auto hold a lot more sensitive. On my Mk7 I could stop the car and engage the auto hold and the stop/start never kicked in but on this one I find it a bit more tricky. The stop/start also kicks in sometimes once I've stopped with auto hold engaged, never did that on my old car.
Anyway, apart from this the car is a nice upgrade.
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It detects movement of the car in front of you too.... if that moves forward, it restarts the engine.
Could well be that...
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I went from a manual MK7 to a DSG MK7.5 and far prefer it on the 7. Yes, mine cuts the engine just before stopping and regularly restarts, very annoying. And then it takes ages to cut the engine. Do you engage autohold each time you stop or do you leave it permantley switched on? I find the later is best, just leave it to it's own devices.
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It detects movement of the car in front of you too.... if that moves forward, it restarts the engine.
Could well be that...
I have been in traffic when it does it. I'll try it later when no one else is around.
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I went from a manual MK7 to a DSG MK7.5 and far prefer it on the 7. Yes, mine cuts the engine just before stopping and regularly restarts, very annoying. And then it takes ages to cut the engine. Do you engage autohold each time you stop or do you leave it permantley switched on? I find the later is best, just leave it to it's own devices.
I have auto hold permanently switched on.
Yours seems to be doing the same as mine then.
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I went from a manual MK7 to a DSG MK7.5 and far prefer it on the 7. Yes, mine cuts the engine just before stopping and regularly restarts, very annoying. And then it takes ages to cut the engine. Do you engage autohold each time you stop or do you leave it permantley switched on? I find the later is best, just leave it to it's own devices.
I have auto hold permanently switched on.
Yours seems to be doing the same as mine then.
That's progress for you :laugh:
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Remember start stop also has a load of other conditions it checks... If the heating or cooling or electric heated window is on or gets switched on (auto climate for example) it will either not stop the engine or if its stopped, start it back up again.
I don't see how it's annoying really, just let it do its thing...
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I'm not anti stop start, in my MK7 it was excellent. It's annoying in the 7.5 for the reasons I mentioned before, it keeps cutting out the engine and instantly switching it back on so it's too sensitive now, it never did that in my last car. They have changed the way it works and in my opinion it's not an improvement.
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OK. This is the solution. Get rid of the feature by disconnecting the wee wire on the battery.
Simples. I did it v shortly after getting my 7.5. Never looked back.
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It was changed because its part of their strategy to reduce the co2 figure. That's not to save you a few quid on petrol, it's to save vw billions of euros in fines...
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In the 7.5 with DSG it is almost impossible to live with.
Hmmm.... I might spend £1 a year extra on fuel without it? Bargain!
Not sure it’s actually greener or indeed safer. Just VW nonsense.
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Total pain - always turn it off. Maybe it’s my age but I find it counterintuitive to have a red hot turbo running at 17K rpm with bearings under oil pressure for all of a sudden - no oil pressure.
I’ve always let my cars warm down if that makes sense.
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The auto stop occurring as you're coming to a stop is perfectly normal. You'll find that if it is restarting again its most likely because you've moved the steering wheel slightly. Sounds silly but when you're next stopped just move the steering wheel the smallest amount and see what happens.
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Do you engage autohold each time you stop or do you leave it permantley switched on?
Why would anyone do that?
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I've just come back from driving a MK8 DSG and maybe I can see what you are talking about now (my Mk7.5 is a manual). However, after just deciding to ignore it, it wasn't any drama really. And I am fairly sure the Mk8 is even more aggressive with start stop.
Maybe the only thing I can say is that it might cause some hesitation at junctions, but its the smallest amount and if that makes the difference to you safely pulling out.... then maybe the gap wasn't a gap to start with.
On the Mk7 you can always use OBD11 to permanently disable start stop - probably on the Mk8 too eventually.
I'd probably not bother - after about 30 mins of driving it, I didn't care about it much or even notice it doing it.
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It can't be disabled on more recent 7.5s and I'd hazard a guess it won't be able to at all on an 8.
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It can't be disabled on more recent 7.5s and I'd hazard a guess it won't be able to at all on an 8.
With OBD11 you mean?
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OBD11 or vcds.
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Hmm is that just a nobody knows how to code it or its simply not configurable?
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OK. This is the solution. Get rid of the feature by disconnecting the wee wire on the battery.
Simples. I did it v shortly after getting my 7.5. Never looked back.
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I like it - low tech, permanent :)
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OK. This is the solution. Get rid of the feature by disconnecting the wee wire on the battery.
Simples. I did it v shortly after getting my 7.5. Never looked back.
Ditto that. If I had an OBDEleven, I'd code it, as there are a few times I'd like it on, but for now, that plug is gone.
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OK. This is the solution. Get rid of the feature by disconnecting the wee wire on the battery.
Simples. I did it v shortly after getting my 7.5. Never looked back.
Ooohh.... I didn't know this was possible..? I haven't looked at the battery, is it obvious which wire to disconnect..? Does it throw up any fault lights etc or affect anything else...?
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I just received my 'Black Friday Spacial' OBD11 so it is one of the first things on the list.
A quick question, once disabled can you then re-enable if you want to using the button as I do use it occasionally? The OBD11 app states 'This function will permanently disable Start/Stop system'?.
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My start stop is extremely annoying too. Usually turns off the engine as i'm slowing down towards a junction, but maybe trying roll through it rather than stop and go. Almost always seems to do it at the wrong time. But rarely activates in traffic :grin: I usually just turn the feature off, unless I know I'm going to sit in a lot of traffic
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OK. This is the solution. Get rid of the feature by disconnecting the wee wire on the battery.
Simples. I did it v shortly after getting my 7.5. Never looked back.
Ooohh.... I didn't know this was possible..? I haven't looked at the battery, is it obvious which wire to disconnect..? Does it throw up any fault lights etc or affect anything else...?
There is a thin wire connected to the side of the battery. Just slide it out of the tiny socket and tape up the wire and socket to protect from damp. This is a “ battery condition” connection which also works the S/S.
From time to time you will briefly get a “ stop start disabled” message on your digital dash. It appears randomly and disappears v quickly.
There is no downside to doing this cost free improvement. Don’t like it any more? Just reconnect the thin wire. Apart from unplugging the Soundaktor, it’s the best, and cheapest, thing I have done to the car.
If you search the forum history, you will find more stuff on this topic.
Let me know how you get on.....
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Just to reassure you, the wee wire connection just acts as a battery condition monitor. It doesn’t really carry any charge. Mine has been disconnected for 18 months/ 10k miles. But when it goes in for service I give the techs the instruction “do not reconnect S/S” so they know if the fault appears not to investigate.
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Sorry, when I said at the side of the battery I meant at the side of the battery terminal nearest the bulkhead. You can’t miss it!
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With that you disable a whole lot of other useful features...
I would leave the feedback wire well where it is.
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I'm guessing the wire disconnect works by it not being able to sense battery condition which means start stop fails to activate because it can't get a positive result on battery condition... Its one of the the components of the decision process it goes through before stopping the engine.
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With that you disable a whole lot of other useful features...
I would leave the feedback wire well where it is.
Really? Can you let me know what other useful features they are? I’m not being sarcastic but just interested to know what I am missing.
Thanks.
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With that you disable a whole lot of other useful features...
I would leave the feedback wire well where it is.
Really? Can you let me know what other useful features they are? I’m not being sarcastic but just interested to know what I am missing.
Thanks.
No?
Anyone else?
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I have disabled stop/start via this wire/clip removal method - so far only get periodic and temporary stop/start error message - will monitor
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After doing this 18 m ago let me assure you, you won’t reconnect!
😂
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Probably not a major problem, but there is a little more involved in the S/S circuit is appears....
Taken form the OBD11 Mk7 FL forum as I was preparing to do some mods... :huh:
The Battery monitor control module (it's called J367)would need to do nothing else but SS. This is not the case!
J367 is involved in measuring the battery condition for a host of other purposes including providing data to the car for the calculation for the alternator charging profile - which changes with age, usage and condition. The car stores the complete battery history - meaning that it monitors every ampere that either leaves the battery, or is injected into the battery (i.e. by the alternator, or by the recuperation system). This data is used over the life cycle for the battery to optimize its longevity. It's J367 that is does much of the data provision for this data and disconnecting the module WILL impact battery life-alas.
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I hate S/S - worthless - but is pressing one button every time you start the car to turn it off a real hardship?
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Mostly agree Adam T7, however I would rather it was wired the other way around so that if you wanted it (which sometimes I do) then it is up to you to enable. But yes most of the time a PITA
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I hate S/S - worthless - but is pressing one button every time you start the car to turn it off a real hardship?
This is what I do and it isn’t a hardship IMO. Turning of S/S has become part of my normal engine starting procedure when I get in the car.
Apparently, it’s not quite as straightforward in the mk8 Golf as there isn’t a S/S button; you have to delve into a menu that’s accessed via the infotainment screen.
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Progress :whistle:
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Maybe they are dropping the hint that you shouldn't be turning it off... Not because having it on might be a little bit annoying but that it has a broader purpose...
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I'm not surprised VW especially are making it more difficult to disable - emissions and therefore taxation are calculated based on a working SS system. I'm sure VW are quite sensitive to accusations of making it easy for their cars to have an emissions system disabled after the test...
Lots of nanny state tech coming to cars over the next few years which will doubtless be difficult to switch off.
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With that you disable a whole lot of other useful features...
I would leave the feedback wire well where it is.
Really? Can you let me know what other useful features they are? I’m not being sarcastic but just interested to know what I am missing.
Thanks.
No?
Anyone else?
It's used for battery monitoring obviously. So no more recuperation... saves a little fuel and doesn't hurt it.
Also the car won't know what state the battery is in ... no advance warning before it dies
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That is genuinely a revelation to me. My decision to disconnect was based on the experiences of others and in particular to a thread on the VWROC where a member said roughly .....”my pal who is an ace VW Technician gave me this tip. He is v knowledgeable and assured me there is no downside to the disconnect”
Anyone else got a view?
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By the way, to some OPs......I get it. There is no big deal to pressing a button every time I start the car.
But VW have not made a success of S/S on the 7.5 DSG in my view.
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It's not just be then.. I found s/s perfectly usable in my previous mk7 manual (GTD) but in the mk7.5 dsg (GTI) it's waaaay too clunky/jerky when starting. I wasn't sure if it was:
- 7 vs 7.5
- manual vs dsg
- diesel vs petrol
But i've got used to turning it off to avoid the poor experience. VW really messed this one up :sick:
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Interestingly my pal’s wife runs a 7.5 “ ordinary” TSI with DSG.
That is so smooth and quiet that you almost don’t realise S/S is working.
I think this is a 7.5 DSG performance Golf problem.
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Start stop on manual is a different thing - it only cuts out if you knock it out of gear and take your foot off of the clutch.
Maybe its just me, but that's not very often unless I'm sat at a level crossing or something.
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Essentially only a DSG irritation.
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Start stop on manual is a different thing - it only cuts out if you knock it out of gear and take your foot off of the clutch.
Maybe its just me, but that's not very often unless I'm sat at a level crossing or something.
I only sit with my car in gear if I'm at the front of the traffic lights so have it in neutral quite often. It's so quick to start back up and pull away with the automatic holding system that there's no reason to sit in gear or with my foot on the break pedal. Although I have a 14 MK7 Manual, sounds like most of the issues are with the DSG system
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Yup, and the system changed with the Mk7.5 too...
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Here’s a thought. Have they managed to refine it in the Mk8?
VW must have had plenty neg feedback.....no?
I think the bottom line is, leaving aside all the advice, S/S simply does frequently cut out before the car stops and then immediately restarts again as soon as the car is at rest then the engine keeps running. I mean....WTAF is that all about.
No, unless you are stuck in a traffic jam this feature does not save fuel.
And........in the good old days of yore, if I thought I was going to be stopped for more than a couple of minutes in a jam I would use my judgement and turn the key off.
Mind you, most people didn’t and still don’t. But then “ most people” aren’t really drivers, are they? They are users of the car as domestic appliance. Just look around you.
End of old bloke rant!
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It's not about your fuel bill. If a million cars are automatically stopped for five seconds every day, every year... What is that in overall co2 reduction? That's what it's about.
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It's not about your fuel bill. If a million cars are automatically stopped for five seconds every day, every year... What is that in overall co2 reduction? That's what it's about.
Spot on Fred.
Yes, that’s precisely what it’s all about - reduction in CO2 levels - and that’s the reason why the default for S/S is for it to be active. Also, if it was the other way found and the resultant emissions levels were higher, we’d be paying higher first year VED as I dare say many cars would move up into a higher CO2 band. VW would also be hit with heavier emissions-based fines (CO2 target is 95g/km in 2021 for a manufacturer’s fleet of new vehicle sales). VW, or any other manufacturer for that matter, wouldn’t be absorbing the cost of those higher fines - they’d be passing them onto the customer in the form of higher list prices for their cars.
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Last time I checked vw were on course for a several billion euro fine at the end of 2021
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So VW, just make it work in a nice, satisfying way on a GTI 245 DSG and I will be a happy driver. If your regular experience is only with manual cars, you may not realise why some people b!tch about it.
I had a manual S/S before this and thought it was great.
Anyway, I’m moving on from this topic.
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So, after the last post I chickened out and reconnected “ the wire”
9 months on I still hate S/S.
Has anyone else disconnected the wire and run their car over a long period?
If so, was there any downside like shorter battery life, increased fuel consumption or warning lights?
I’m still trying to understand exactly what the downside of disconnection is.
If any techie knows, can they list exactly what consequences await the disconnector.
And to my PM correspondent, if you read this long string you can see where we got to in Dec 20.
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Incidentally, at my last service the wire was still disconnected and the VW servicing garage did not come back to me with a fault or “ advisory” on collection.
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OK. This is the solution. Get rid of the feature by disconnecting the wee wire on the battery.
Simples. I did it v shortly after getting my 7.5. Never looked back.
Remember that wire also monitors batter voltage when charging. It s not just for the S/S system.
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I do not find s/s a problem on the 7.5 gti manual and from comments is only really an issue with dsg cars. I sometimes worry about the possible wear on mechanical components such as turbo and starter motor and wonder if the co2 saving is offset by more frequent component replacement that creates more co2?
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It’s a DSG problem.
I was quite happy when I had a manual car.
The main gripe is the unpleasant and obtrusive way it kicks in and out sometimes. And unpredictability which is absent with a manual.
You can only really understand this if you have owned both.
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I turn mine off with the button as part of my routine before I move off.
Just doesn't feel right that I can come off the motorway and at the first slip-road junction it stops still with a red hot engine.
As s/s is combined with the camera the one issue seems to be that in traffic no sooner have you stopped it restarts as the cars in front move off.
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It’s a DSG problem.
I was quite happy when I had a manual car.
The main gripe is the unpleasant and obtrusive way it kicks in and out sometimes. And unpredictability which is absent with a manual.
You can only really understand this if you have owned both.
fit a front and rear dashcam connected to your fuse box and that'll stop your stop/start working.
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I turn mine off with the button as part of my routine before I move off.
Just doesn't feel right that I can off the motorway and at the fist slip-road junction it stops still with a red hot engine.
As s/s is combined with the camera the one issue seems to be that in traffic no sooner have you stopped it restarts as the cars in front move off.
I would expect it to work if you've just been on a long motorway journey as the battery will be fully charged. Stop/start isn't combined with a camera, it works with the adaptive cruise system where the camera brings you to a halt and then restarts.
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Really what I am asking members is …..
What bad things might happen if I disconnect the wire?
Simple as that.
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As others have said the wire isn't just for stop/start. I really don't get why a simple press of the button when you start the car is such a major issue for you that you want to disconnect something. If you really want to stop it why don't you try and find out how VW have set the Clubsport S system up. It's turned off automatically at start up instead of turned on.
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Yes, but for me this is now a bit of an educational question.
What bad things can happen ( apart from me being lazy)?
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As others have said the wire isn't just for stop/start. I really don't get why a simple press of the button when you start the car is such a major issue for you that you want to disconnect something. If you really want to stop it why don't you try and find out how VW have set the Clubsport S system up. It's turned off automatically at start up instead of turned on.
A revo remap turns it off automatically at start up :whistle:
Really what I am asking members is …..
What bad things might happen if I disconnect the wire?
Simple as that.
Your battery sensor won't be plugged in so you won't get a low battery notification if it goes down, that's about it.
But start/stop will eat into your starter motor life technically and that's probably about it as well.
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Reviving this old chestnut…..
Can S/S be disabled using OBD on a my2018 GTI?
And, can it be set to default as disabled with the ability to switch it on manually via the button? In other words reverse the standard default on starting up?
Finally, any tips to offer on the whole process using OBD?
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Reviving this old chestnut…..
Can S/S be disabled using OBD on a my2018 GTI?
And, can it be set to default as disabled with the ability to switch it on manually via the button? In other words reverse the standard default on starting up?
Finally, any tips to offer on the whole process using OBD?
apparently the Clubsport S as standard had SS turned off and then you could press the switch to turn it on.
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Reviving this old chestnut…..
Can S/S be disabled using OBD on a my2018 GTI?
And, can it be set to default as disabled with the ability to switch it on manually via the button? In other words reverse the standard default on starting up?
Finally, any tips to offer on the whole process using OBD?
Yes
No
It’s pretty straightforward to use
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Got one of these this morning: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002252098223.html?spm=a2g0s.12269583.0.0.3aca12c7cdJEQ7
They seem to be quite popular on the R forums and I thought it's worth a punt for £12.
It's supposed to remember the last setting and not throw up stop/start disabled messages like you get if you disconnect the battery wire. I won't have a chance to fit it until the weekend but I'll report back once it's in.
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Very keen to hear what you think.
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Works great. Took just a few minutes to fit, though I watched Humble Mechanic's video on how to fit it first because I was scared of breaking the trim: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZcBfEQ8DaKg
It has three modes, memory so it remembers the last stop/start setting, always off on startup, and bypass so it behaves like stock. I found this out from a thread on the R forums as the device didn't come with any instructions. Doesn't throw up any warnings.
One of the simplest mods you can do and a no brainer for £12.
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Thanks for that reassuring report. I just need to decide in next few days whether to order one or get it turned off via coding. Unfortunately the discount you got was removed the other day so I think it’s back to £18. Hardly the end of the world !
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Back down to £12 so I will just get in! Thanks again.