GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk7 => Topic started by: P6GTD on 09 September 2021, 19:56
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I am on my third Mk7/7.5 and fifth performance Golf.
Been an enthusiastic regular reader of the forum for years, occasionally joining in. Loved it all.
I looked forward to sharing the excitement of the new Mk8 section of the forum where the anticipation and discovery of the new version should be evident in all the posts from early adopters.
But…….reading the Mk8 forum leaves me totally shocked to the extent I will not be buying a Mk8 performance Golf, I will be hanging on to the 7.5 baby I have for some time then moving on, I know not where.
I’m surprised I haven’t read more opinion like this or maybe other forum members are just too polite.
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I'm sticking with the Mk7.5 for now. Coming up to 4 years old but I don't see a good reason to change right now.
Got my eye on the Mk8 hoping VW can finally resolve its software woes, but am not holding my breath.
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I'm not one for regular changing of my cars, some stay a short while, others for a very long time. Having not long splashed out on my current car (I'm a tight cash buyer) I wasn't really going to be an early adopter of a MK8, particularly as I don't care for some of the looks. But all the problems would certainly have put me right off. I suspect my TCR will be on the drive for quite some time yet as there seems very little point in changing it as it does all I could ever need barring not being a fan of DSG.
IF the option of early retirement raises it's head I might be tempted to let it go for two older cars, a cheap runabout and something a bit special.
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I am currently of the same opinion. My mk6 has had few niggles but still performs well. Enjoying the recent addition of the mk 7.5 pp and pleased at the general build quality although some corner cutting compared to the mk6 . My view of the mk 8 might change if vw get their act together but other manufacturers look increasingly tempting.
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If I was in the market for a new car, I’m afraid the mk8 Golf wouldn’t be on the shortlist. The looks have grown on me and dynamically, VW seem to have done a good job with the mk8. However…………….the software niggles would be a major annoyance that I’m not sure I could live with. The prospect of multiple dealer visits, unsuccessful software updates or to hear there is currently no fix for some of the issues isn’t what I’d be looking for with a new car.
I’ve had my current car (2020 Polo GTI+) exactly a year and apart from its first service yesterday, it has only been back to the dealers once to have a damaged driver’s door sill scuff plate replaced (it was damaged before I took delivery of the car). Everything works as it should and it’s been problem free, and has also been free from creaks and rattles. It was the same with my previous car (previous generation Polo GTI) - problem free and creak/rattle free and only one visit per year to the dealer for an annual service / MOT - and IMO that’s how a new car should be and I don’t think it’s too much to expect (I could live with the odd creak or rattle though).
The mk8 Golf software issues must have been harmful to the VW brand. However, it’s not just the mk8 Golf that’s afflicted by software issues though - other VAG vehicles that are built on the MQB platform that share the same or similar software with the Golf also have software gremlins (e.g. current models of the Audi A3, Skoda Octavia, Seat Leon, VW Tiguan, Seat Ateca - there will probably be others too), so other brands under the VAG umbrella are also likely to have suffered damage in terms of customer dissatisfaction and lost sales. I understand there’s a major software update due very soon that is supposed to fix the known issues; hopefully it does.
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I usually cross shop all the hatchback VAG offerings. I would have been happy with any one of them from the last generation, but honestly I wouldn't touch any of the new ones.
I think I'll keep a mk7/7.5 until I'm obliged to buy something electric.
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Mate, you're far from alone, I suspect.
I think there is a fair bit of restraint out of respect to mk8 owners here. I know there have been some pretty defensive retorts from a few owners when anyone dare criticise the mk8. Which is natural, I guess, as these are large financial investments and no-one likes to admit they've made a mistake or are unhappy. Although I note some of them seem to be coming around.
As for me, there is a snowflake's chance in hell I'll be buying another VW (or VAG) car using the buttonless, touchscreen interface. Even if, and it's a huge if IMO, the software worked faultlessly I still could not stomach either the functionality or aesthetic of that interior and driver interface. Some people get in their car, drive away and never touch any controls. I'm the opposite. And I know I'm far from alone. Safe and tactile buttons and dials I can operate without have to divert my attention from the road for a dangerous amount of time is paramount for me. And as for the "well you won't have a choice, everything will be digital" retort, yes I will and no it won't. You don't have to look very far at the Golf's competitors to realise that.
I'm currently trying to decide whether to sell my 7.5 GTI manual (the last of them here in Aus) for an MX5 RF, or keep it until the EV invasion in 2 to 3 years ideally for something like the Honda-e (or similar). My 7.5 has been faultless and I still quite enjoy driving it, but the recent addition to our household of a Mazda 3 Astina has opened my eyes. A lot. I actually prefer driving the Astina to my 7.5 GTI. The steering in particular is more feelsome and natural. It's a genuinely enjoyable steer and drive. Hence the MX5 interest.
Personally I think VW are taking a huge gamble with the mk8's buttonless digital interface. I'd guess it's a deliberate ploy to move their owner age profile down into the digital native generation. But how many of those have the means to shell out for a new VW, with it's increasingly premium class pricing?
And I cannot see VW ever going back to buttons and dials.
Sorry for the long post and brutal honesty, but VW has lost me as a customer. Especially now I've realised most of the other brands have caught up and in some cases surpassed the Golf and even GTI for driver enjoyment. And especially interface design, quality and ambience. Mk8? Nah, I'll pass, thanks.
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I feel the same, too.
I dislike the touch only interface in the mk8, which even ignoring the massive software is enough to put me off it.
My other pet hat is the silly tablet in the centre that sticks out like an eyesore, even though that's not quite as bad as the rubbish cheap look Tesla have opted for with their dashboard.
If VW are trying to remove dials to make the interior less cramped why did they keep the massive centre area where you could just put a small lever somewhere for the DSG lever.
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The MK8 for me is a bit of a dichotomy really. When it was first launched I hated the looks and the interior. When the performance models were launched, I didn't like (and still don't like) the huge gaping front plastic grill or the foglight design on the GTI's, but it did look better on both the Clubsport and R models. So my opinions on the external styling have certainly softened over time, but I'm biased and will still say, overall the MK7.5 in my humble opinion is the most pleasing and sorted styling wise of the models.
The interior for me is where it falls down. I'm in my late 50's so certainly not the playstation generation, but I just don't like the completely buttonless interior and "minimalistic" design. Also, and I know these aren't biggies, but it continues to annoy me how VW in every preceding facelift or model type continue to remove things to please the beancounters. I know for instance going from the MK7.5 to the MK8 we've lost, hydraulic bonnet stay, illuminated door sill trims (or sill trims of any kind), flecked glovebox lining, CD player, SD Card slots, undersea drawers etc. Like I say not biggies and if you like the car enough certainly not enough to deter you, but it's not like they are cheap cars to begin with, with the R especially in bog standard form now costing just under £40k. Sure I know you get better ambient illumination options (especially now in the back) which is nice, but that feature on it's own, wouldn't make me choose this car over another.
I could forgive all the above if the new Golf was dynamically leaps and bounds about the old and the new tech was really "wow". However from my (albeit limited) time in a MK8 Clubsport that I test drove some months ago, whilst you could argue that dynamically it has moved on, it's certainly not night and day and you really have to be pushing on at some speed to really notice any appreciable difference. But the tech was just horrible. Sure I might get used to it over time, but in the short drive I had with it, there must have been at least 3 or 4 warnings come up on screen (ACC not available, Park pilot not available etc), and the infotainment screen (and thus the climate controls) completely locking up and freezes not once but twice in a 2 hour drive.
I'm sorry, but owners should NOT be the beta testers for this software, and I feel for the owners of MK8's that are still experiencing major software issues over a year after taking delivery. That simply is not acceptable but sadly looks like the way of the future for VW and quite a few other marques. I too think that my current MK7.5 GTI will be my last VW as I think they have just lost the plot and are only interested really in EV cars, and customer service levels from the dealership network and the UK headquarters are just so bad.
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When I first saw the 8 I wasn’t keen on the styling, but that’s grown on me a bit. I still think the 7.5 is a better looking car outside and a car more friendly car inside. Plus the lack of 3 door and lack of manual options on some models will imho make some of the 7.5s the last of the line (biased there though).
I can see an 8.5 coming within the next 18 months which will probably fix some of the issues.
A friend of mine summed it up the other day, the mk1/2/5/7 will go down as the classics, the 3/4/6/8 probably wont.
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Agree with all the above. The Mk8 GTI isn't popular, probably best illustrated by the fact that my local VW dealer has a 2019 19 plate TCR with 11.5k miles for sale at £32,990 or for exactly the same money you can have a 2020 20 plate Mk 8 GTI with 4.5k miles.
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In defence of the Mk8.... its a really good driving car.... it totally is. I even like the looks and the minimalist interior if I am honest.
All it needs is software that works all of the time...
I think most Mk8 owners frustration is because they keep taking it back only to find it doesn't get fixed. It doesn't get fixed because there is no fix yet - my advice, don't waste your time at the dealers until you read on here that its finally fixable.
I've said it before and I'll say it again - my big massive gripe with VW is not that a new product has faults, but its their piss poor handling of that. They aren't being open and honest at all. It will really damage them and no mistake.
Unfortunately what with covid, the semiconductor shortage, B***t, VAG software problems and other things, its a bit of a perfect storm that makes considering a new car somewhat tricky, probably for another year yet too.
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I've said it before and I'll say it again - my big massive gripe with VW is not that a new product has faults, but its their piss poor handling of that. They aren't being open and honest at all. It will really damage them and no mistake.
I think it's disgraceful that VW keep selling cars knowing they have faults, some of which could be considered as dangerous, that they can't fix AND when they are rejected just re-sell them.
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The styling of the Mk 8 has grown on me but what concerns me is that the Mk 8 is two years old in November. That's nearly two years that VW has had to fix the problems with the car but I'm starting to think that they are unable to do so, either through incompetence and bad management or that there is an underlying problem with the hardware which can't be fixed without replacing components.
Think I'll wait for the facelift.
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I've said it before and I'll say it again - my big massive gripe with VW is not that a new product has faults, but its their piss poor handling of that. They aren't being open and honest at all. It will really damage them and no mistake.
I think it's disgraceful that VW keep selling cars knowing they have faults, some of which could be considered as dangerous, that they can't fix AND when they are rejected just re-sell them.
Agree. I certainly wouldn’t be tempted to buy a nearly new mk8 Golf. If it was a rejected car and a would-be buyer asked the salesperson why an almost new car with nominal mileage and one previous private owner was up for sale, IMO it’s extremely unlikely they’d be told the truth.
I wonder what happens with other brands of cars that are rejected by their owners? Even if they’re not resold by the original selling dealer, no doubt they’ll end up on a garage forecourt for sale somewhere within the motor trade for some unsuspecting punter to buy.
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A change of situation forced my hand so I wasn’t going to be in the market for a MK8 GTi this time anyway. However, reading all the problems people are suffering with what sounds like a car that was not fully ready to be released and with its frumpy looks and penny pinching Interior 😧 I can’t help feeling I have dodged a bullet!
I genuinely feel for those who have bought one and I’m sure VW will get it sorted but still really shocked how a major manufacturer appears to have been so half arsed over the launch of a new and let’s face it iconic car and then the subsequent delays in getting it sorted too.
Meanwhile. For now though having broken the Golf cycle (hopefully temporarily) I have to say I’m really happy with my new modes of transport. A mile munching frugal (mid 70’s) 80% Golf for work 😁 and a high spec (where the tech works 👍😉) go kart for the weekends 🥳 As they say. Every cloud has a silver lining 😃😉
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Having a good b!tch isn’t a bad thing if you feel the product you’d have been considering isn’t anywhere near up to scratch.
Staying quiet won’t be a step toward VW to improve on the design and execution. And VW will improve on it if there is enough noise. The ID.3 is getting some rushed through improvements already and a reported early facelift due to the negativity surrounding many aspects of it for example, and that’s a separate issue to the software gremlins it has similar to the mk8 Golf and related models.
The Golf used to be VW’s favourite baby but it’s on borrowed time, we are all aware there’s a revolution going on and (nearly) all focus is on the MEB cars. There is no excuse though for bringing a badly developed car to market, particularly from a manufacturer that milks its old reputation for build superiority in the market segment.
My car has had zero visits to a dealer in nine months and circa 5k miles so not every one is a dud (although it has sporadic software weirdness), but I’m not one to take offence if anybody criticises the design and execution of the mk8.
The mk8 hardware is mostly well developed but the software is already legendary in its unreliability and there is just and fair criticism of the interior plastics etc bearing in mind the car isn’t exactly cheap.
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If I was in the market for a new car, I’m afraid the mk8 Golf wouldn’t be on the shortlist. The looks have grown on me and dynamically, VW seem to have done a good job with the mk8. However…………….the software niggles would be a major annoyance that I’m not sure I could live with. The prospect of multiple dealer visits, unsuccessful software updates or to hear there is currently no fix for some of the issues isn’t what I’d be looking for with a new car.
I’ve had my current car (2020 Polo GTI+) exactly a year and apart from its first service yesterday, it has only been back to the dealers once to have a damaged driver’s door sill scuff plate replaced (it was damaged before I took delivery of the car). Everything works as it should and it’s been problem free, and has also been free from creaks and rattles. It was the same with my previous car (previous generation Polo GTI) - problem free and creak/rattle free and only one visit per year to the dealer for an annual service / MOT - and IMO that’s how a new car should be and I don’t think it’s too much to expect (I could live with the odd creak or rattle though).
The mk8 Golf software issues must have been harmful to the VW brand. However, it’s not just the mk8 Golf that’s afflicted by software issues though - other VAG vehicles that are built on the MQB platform that share the same or similar software with the Golf also have software gremlins (e.g. current models of the Audi A3, Skoda Octavia, Seat Leon, VW Tiguan, Seat Ateca - there will probably be others too), so other brands under the VAG umbrella are also likely to have suffered damage in terms of customer dissatisfaction and lost sales. I understand there’s a major software update due very soon that is supposed to fix the known issues; hopefully it does.
Nice to here this we have a Polo GTI very fond of its a good fun a mini 7,5 which hasnt missed a beat and a good buy thanks to timing . i have a 7 the 8 is a hard sell i im a Golf gti advocate
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If I was in the market for a new car, I’m afraid the mk8 Golf wouldn’t be on the shortlist. The looks have grown on me and dynamically, VW seem to have done a good job with the mk8. However…………….the software niggles would be a major annoyance that I’m not sure I could live with. The prospect of multiple dealer visits, unsuccessful software updates or to hear there is currently no fix for some of the issues isn’t what I’d be looking for with a new car.
I’ve had my current car (2020 Polo GTI+) exactly a year and apart from its first service yesterday, it has only been back to the dealers once to have a damaged driver’s door sill scuff plate replaced (it was damaged before I took delivery of the car). Everything works as it should and it’s been problem free, and has also been free from creaks and rattles. It was the same with my previous car (previous generation Polo GTI) - problem free and creak/rattle free and only one visit per year to the dealer for an annual service / MOT - and IMO that’s how a new car should be and I don’t think it’s too much to expect (I could live with the odd creak or rattle though).
The mk8 Golf software issues must have been harmful to the VW brand. However, it’s not just the mk8 Golf that’s afflicted by software issues though - other VAG vehicles that are built on the MQB platform that share the same or similar software with the Golf also have software gremlins (e.g. current models of the Audi A3, Skoda Octavia, Seat Leon, VW Tiguan, Seat Ateca - there will probably be others too), so other brands under the VAG umbrella are also likely to have suffered damage in terms of customer dissatisfaction and lost sales. I understand there’s a major software update due very soon that is supposed to fix the known issues; hopefully it does.
Nice to here this we have a Polo GTI very fond of its a good fun a mini 7,5 which hasnt missed a beat and a good buy thanks to timing . i have a 7 the 8 is a hard sell i im a Golf gti advocate
Yes, it is quite like a mini mk7.5 and I have no regrets buying it, although there are a one or two aspects that make it feel less premium than a mk7.5 Golf, such as hard plastic door cards (although that seems to be the norm in the Polo class of car) and unlined door bins.
The facelift version of the Polo has recently been announced and as far as tech goes, it’s seems that it shares much of its tech with the mk8 Golf. IMO, that’s not a good thing if it’s also afflicted with the same software gremlins as the mk8 Golf.
I’m glad mine is the pre-facelift model :smiley:. I’ve no plans to change it for the facelift model.
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I am on my third Mk7/7.5 and fifth performance Golf.
Been an enthusiastic regular reader of the forum for years, occasionally joining in. Loved it all.
I looked forward to sharing the excitement of the new Mk8 section of the forum where the anticipation and discovery of the new version should be evident in all the posts from early adopters.
But…….reading the Mk8 forum leaves me totally shocked to the extent I will not be buying a Mk8 performance Golf, I will be hanging on to the 7.5 baby I have for some time then moving on, I know not where.
I’m surprised I haven’t read more opinion like this or maybe other forum members are just too polite.
Similar boat to you in terms of forum and multiple performance Golfs. I tried the 8/CS a little while back - the dealer lent me one when my CSS went in for a service. Software crashed and had to do a reset when I could pull over. Driving the 8/CS vs 7/CSS was night and day in terms of experience. I appreciate that it's not the fairest comparison but it was the comparison I had. The TCR is my wife's car and we debated whether we'd wait till the 8 or get the 7.5 TCR. After 18k miles, I've been offered nearly £5k more than what we paid for the TCR when new which surprised me. Admittedly, it's symptomatic of wider conditions but the popularity of the MK8 has to be a contributing factor.
There are very few other cars that I'd be interested in though. I test drove the AMG A45S and the +. The + was a bit too try hard with the stick on wing - it juddered so badly when I shut the boot, I thought it was going to come off and the dive planes at the front are a bit Halfords. It was a great car and the bucket seats in the + version were probably some of the best seats I've ever tried. If you could take the wheels and seats from the A45S and put them in the A35, I don't think you could do much better. I looked at an Alpine but I tend to give up when you leave six messages and they don't call you back from the flagship retailer.
I think I'm turning into an old man and will be saying things like 'they don't make them like they used to' before I know it.
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Well, for you boys and girls that have Mk8 phobia, yesterday I tried the mk9 out. Yep, the ID.3
Outside it looks like a funky version of a boring spec Golf, inside it reminded me of a Citroen Picasso hire car I once had the misfortune to drive for a day.
Looking at it I thought, yeah, the front end looks fairly err… wrong.
The side looks ok, the back looks a bit futuristic and the steel wheels look bloody awful.
I’ve seen a white one locally with 20” wheels which looked pretty ok but a drab grey with steelies won’t set any pulses racing.
Those of you thinking “what the hell has this to do with anything?” can clear off now, everyone else bear with me.
Right, the ID.3 is no GTI and nor is it meant to be (just yet) but it has 204 PS and 229 lb ft of torque so is former GTI power in a lardy package. However, the 204 PS probably won’t have anywhere near as much transmission loss as a GTI or R with cog gearboxes and Haldex thingies which means power at the wheels potentially won’t be massively behind a 230 or 245 PS GTI.
The ID.3 204 PS motor is pretty rapid at A and B road speeds so long as you’re in Sport mode.
The handling is pretty ok, it corners fairly flatly, the steering is typical VW and so on.
But the brakes feel massively inferior to the bigger Performance GTI brakes and the nose dives in a very un-GTI like manner.
The whole suspension and controls feeling is that of lightness and ease of use.
It’s a great package as a catch all mid sized car but it’s an appliance level of car.
Efficient at many things but devoid of something special. That ingredient X is missing.
Hopefully the X on the GTX will rectify that (at a price).
Climbing back into the mk8 Clubsport afterwards and there’s an immediate difference of feel. The lower roof and black sports seats are more cocooning, the dash and door panels suddenly feel Golf like again and familiarly solid.
Fire up the engine and there’s that satifying shudder as the exhaust barks into life.
As soon as you move off everything feels taut and tightly bushed even at car park speeds.
And that engine!
Don’t write the mk8 off just yet :tongue: :lipsrsealed:
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Interesting post, thanks :smiley: I'm not against an EV but a car is more than an appliance to me too, I enjoy driving (most of the time anyway) and want a car to excite me. I'm also not totally against the MK8 either but I wouldn't touch one until they are working properly, tech to me is mostly a distraction so non-functional tech would bug the hell out of me! But this is all academic anyway as I'm not getting rid of the TCR just yet, although I still find the DSG annoying at times overall it is just so good I'd be a fool to sell it.
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Well, for you boys and girls that have Mk8 phobia, yesterday I tried the mk9 out. Yep, the ID.3
Don’t write the mk8 off just yet :tongue: :lipsrsealed:
I like the mk8 in mechanical terms and looks, I just despise the drab minimalist interior that it shares with the Leon and A3. However it should not have been brought to market with the amount of software issues it has and it is unacceptable to sell a car that does not function fully, which is also why I hate Tesla.
I've very high hopes for the mk8.5 which I also hope will bring forward a hybrid drivetrain for the Clubsport or R (I believe the normal GTI should die as it started a 4 cylinder petrol), as well as see a return of some physical buttons as Audi have come out and said they will be reverting back to.
If you look at BMW vs Mercedes in the 80s and 90s, the C/E class interiors are horrendously dated by modern standards, but the BMW's like the E30 and E28 are still nice places to sit with a simple radio and a heater, much like the Mk1/2 golfs.
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..... but it’s an appliance level of car.......Efficient at many things but devoid of something special.......Climbing back into the mk8 Clubsport afterwards......Fire up the engine and there’s that satifying shudder as the exhaust barks into life.
I've been mentally preparing myself, trying to get psyched up even, for the eventual domination of EVs, but this ^ is my biggest fear. To be fair, I've not driven one, but I can't help but think most EVs will be drab and boring, once the novelty wears off. To me, there's a whole lot more than just power and (instant in this case) torque which makes a car enjoyable and engaging to drive.
Thanks for taking the time to review the ID. And contributing to my apprehension!
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Maybe the ID GTX's will be fun.... I doubt it though.
Hyundai are also building N badged milkfloats too.
The problem with BEV's is their weight - even Tesla (who are making lighter and non-SUV vehicles) suffer with it. Their fastest thing is light speed in a straight line but horrible round corners. Not really sure what you can do to fix that.
I guess its all comparative though - when we all drive 3 ton battery packs, these warmed up ones will seem like a sports car...
In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king...
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Maybe the ID GTX's will be fun.... I doubt it though.
Hyundai are also building N badged milkfloats too.
The problem with BEV's is their weight - even Tesla (who are making lighter and non-SUV vehicles) suffer with it. Their fastest thing is light speed in a straight line but horrible round corners. Not really sure what you can do to fix that.
I guess its all comparative though - when we all drive 3 ton battery packs, these warmed up ones will seem like a sports car...
In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king...
I've hope for electric cars handling wise, as always Porsche's offering (Taycan) being the best in that regard. But when 98% of the public are only interested in straight line speed as they can't enter or exit a corner properly, we are a dying breed.
Better winning the Euro Millions sooner rather than later to pick up some of the proper cars before they're all tucked away.
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Tesla drivers are the worst. Charlie big b0llox on a straight road, then slow to a virtual crawl when the road gets tricky.
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I guess its all comparative though - when we all drive 3 ton battery packs, these warmed up ones will seem like a sports car...
Agree - a bit like the frog in boiling water. Before we all know it we're driving a block of flats thinking they're sporty
I really need to snag a test drive of an EV to better inform my opinions and options. I must admit I'm tempted by the Mini EV as a city runabout. Perhaps the best so far at marrying efficiency and driving enjoyment? Anyone here driven one?
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I wonder how the switch to EV will impact on the mods industry? Supposed to be very big business with a high turn over.
Also still can't see a new 17yr old getting an EV as their first banger once they pass their test....
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I had a day with an ID.3 while my wife’s Skoda was being serviced. Apart from the software problems, which didn’t occur with me, and the lack of buttons, which I found to be as bad as reported, the car is very well sorted and pleasant to drive. Sporty it is not, but neither is it a pudding. If I HAD to have one as my daily, I wouldn’t be distraught, but it’s not yet a car I desire, or would choose. VW haven’t chosen the sporty end of the EV market to start with, but I’d say the possibility is there. We’ve a long way to go in the development of these things, but they will have to appeal to drive the market, so the equivalent of a hot hatch will be essential.
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The Cupra Born might be an interesting prospect.
Even the ID.3 GTX will probably be a bit too conservatively styled if the ID.4 GTX is anything to go by. Mind you if the 3 GTX also has the 300 bhp motor I’d forgive it that blunt cutesy nose.
I had a quick nose around an ID.3 forum and in places it was more prickly than a blackberry bush.
I really need to snag a test drive of an EV to better inform my opinions and options. I must admit I'm tempted by the Mini EV as a city runabout. Perhaps the best so far at marrying efficiency and driving enjoyment? Anyone here driven one?
I drove a Mini Electric when they were launched.
It feels a lot more tied down than the ID.3 and the interior is in a different league for quality of materials.
Pointless mentioning the interior space difference, let’s just say it’s significant!!
Power to weight is probably similar to an ID.3
I’m planning on having another go in one when I get chance soonish, whilst the ID is still fresh in my mind.
I don’t plan on having another go in the ID, so make of that what you will. :whistle:
I also have had a good few reads of a Mini Electric owners group and they’re MUCH nicer!
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I really need to snag a test drive of an EV to better inform my opinions and options. I must admit I'm tempted by the Mini EV as a city runabout. Perhaps the best so far at marrying efficiency and driving enjoyment? Anyone here driven one?
I drove a Mini Electric when they were launched.
It feels a lot more tied down than the ID.3 and the interior is in a different league for quality of materials.
Pointless mentioning the interior space difference, let’s just say it’s significant!!
Power to weight is probably similar to an ID.3
I’m planning on having another go in one when I get chance soonish, whilst the ID is still fresh in my mind.
I don’t plan on having another go in the ID, so make of that what you will. :whistle:
I also have had a good few reads of a Mini Electric owners group and they’re MUCH nicer!
Cheers for that. The Mini E is priced similarly to a Tesla 3 here in Aus, which is something I'm having trouble accepting. But.....the Mini is the only EV which appeals to me at the moment. Because it has conventional controls, in a conventional body, which drives (apparently) pretty conventionally. But that price.... ($60,000 on the road).
I love everything about the Tesla except the all-touchscreen interface. No way am I buying a tablet with 4 wheels. Plus I'm not sure I'd fit in on their owners' forum! :wink: :grin:
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That pricing seems insane! Is there a reason why?
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That pricing seems insane! Is there a reason why?
I wish I knew. I suspect lack of Federal Government support, financial or otherwise, is a big factor.
The Leaf and Hyundai Ioniq are also in the $50s. Although Chinese EVs are just starting to appear here - there is an "MG" SUV for around mid $40s. Which kind of makes me gag, as I grew up idolising MGBs.
The long touted alignment of ICE and EV car prices is being achieved here by bringing ICE up to EV prices, not the other way around - or even meeting in the middle. For example, I paid ~$43k for my manual GTI on the road in 2018. Similar (albeit DSG) is now over $60k in mk8 guise. It's lunacy here.
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Is there not a lot of backlash over the pricing?
In a country where you’re very reliant on cars due to the sheer distances between everywhere (metropolitan areas excepted) I’d have thought car pricing would be a political and commercial hot potato.
The rather short range of some of the smaller BEV’s must be of a concern in Aus too?
What is your charging infrastructure like?
My step brother (in Ballarat) used to think nothing of driving 5 hours to go to the beach in his Subaru, I can’t see him doing that in an EV!
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Is there not a lot of backlash over the pricing?
In a country where you’re very reliant on cars due to the sheer distances between everywhere (metropolitan areas excepted) I’d have thought car pricing would be a political and commercial hot potato.
The rather short range of some of the smaller BEV’s must be of a concern in Aus too?
What is your charging infrastructure like?
My step brother (in Ballarat) used to think nothing of driving 5 hours to go to the beach in his Subaru, I can’t see him doing that in an EV!
Yes, there is definitely public backlash over our high EV prices and on a larger but related scale, a Federal Government which refuses to take decisive action on climate change. But that veers into politics, on which I could really mount a soapbox, so I shall try to avoid that subject further.
To be honest I'm not up to date on our charging infrastructure, but I'd hazard a guess it reflects our very low EV uptake. I do know, however, that it is nowhere near as comprehensive as the UK and Europe. Yes, range anxiety remains a major issue here. Not so much for day-today running to and from work etc, but more for the recreational trips such as your step-brother's.
For me personally, I would buy an EV as our second car, using our new Mazda 3 for trips and family use. So the range issue is, well, a non-issue. Hence my interest in the Mini, even with it's relatively small range. I initially was hoping the ID2 might be ideal, but no way it if it uses VW's new all-digital UI. Something like the Honda-E would be perfect for me: Buttons and dials, cute retro styling, ideal size for city use and fun to drive. Ditto the Mini. The small range is a non-issue for me as I can charge it in my garage using our solar panels on most days, so free fuel, basically.
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Didn't I see some comment from some Aussie politician the other day about how EV's would impact the Aussie lifestyle because you can't travel 500 miles into the outback for camping at the weekend or something?
Fairly sure he said something like that.
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That would not surprise me at all, Fred. We're living in some Trumpian, dystopian backwater.
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Even the ID.3 GTX will probably be a bit too conservatively styled if the ID.4 GTX is anything to go by. Mind you if the 3 GTX also has the 300 bhp motor I’d forgive it that blunt cutesy nose.
I'd think again on the ID GTX... well, reading this anyway:
https://www.carmagazine.co.uk/car-reviews/volkswagen/id4-gtx/
"The GTX is only 0.6sec slower to 62mph than the 296bhp Golf GTI Clubsport, but the EV is not nearly as involving to drive as a Golf GTI. In terms of handling prowess, the top-of-the-line ID model is, at best, a dozen confetti flakes and half a paper streamer more entertaining than the RWD Pro edition. It's a steadfast, stoic sort of car, not one that feels like it was designed with sheer driving pleasure anywhere near the top of its priorities."
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I’ll have a proper read of that review a bit later Fred, but yeah, the ID.4 is a tub of lard that hasn’t had anywhere near the chassis development of the ICE GTI’s.
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Splashalot, in the interests of science and following on from comments here I popped into MINI today, as I had an hour to kill, and took their demo car out for a spin.
I only had it half an hour, it was peeing it down and the traffic was shocking but I got it out onto some quieter roads I know well.
This is a Golf forum so size, styling and all that jazz is down to personal requirements and taste.
But it’s a GTI forum so driving fun is 100% relevant.
I got in, shoved it straight into Sport mode as I consider all other settings irrelevant as far as my uses are concerned, and headed out into the traffic.
The power delivery takes me back to the Diesel hot hatch heydays of the mk4 and mk5 era.
Loads of shove from the off but then power plateaus(sp?) and feels a bit flat after a trip in a 300 PS petrol.
Real world quick but lacking something. And not just noise.
Lack of diesel tickover vibration is a plus, as is the missing sudden abrupt stall you get when you find yourself in too high a gear at low speed driving a derv.
Bushings versus ride quality are on the comfortable side of sporty.
Plenty of wheelspin and torque steer in the wet too when nailing it but that’s not a bad thing as it reminds you to drive according to the conditions rather than fooling yourself you’re invincible unlike certain 4WD fast hatches.
Cornering is flat but the car doesn’t literally pivot on its axles for pinpoint accuracy like the Clubsport. I’ve gotten used to the Clubsport handling which is truly exceptional for a standard VW product (I’ve had heaps of modified GTI’s in the past so have good grounding). But the little EV is quick through the corners and accelerates very very rapidly up to (and possibly beyond? :smug: ) the speed limit.
The brakes didn’t feel woolly unlike the VW ID’s plus there was a lot more regen going on, so in fact the brakes were hardly touched except for testing them.
The MINI SE is great fun on the right roads unlike the ID.3 but lacks the interior space (a completely different league) and range.
Just like after driving the ID.3 it was nice to get back in my Golf again though. And yet again not a single warning light came on in the VW for the 30 mile round trip in nasty weather.
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Splashalot, in the interests of science and following on from comments here I popped into MINI today, as I had an hour to kill, and took their demo car out for a spin...........Just like after driving the ID.3 it was nice to get back in my Golf again though.
You, Sir, are a legend! Thank you very much. This ^ is probably the closest I will get to a test drive with the current scarcity of stock at all dealers.
Your last paragraph I think sums up the mental gymnastics I'm going through. No matter what alternative I think of, I always seem to end up deciding the GTI is a nicer drive. But I think maybe this Mini EV may just be close enough in driving enjoyment. The whole EV/running cost/environment thing is another rissue entirely, and obviously in favour of an EV. So it's an issue of getting as close as I can to the GTI's driving enjoyment and involvement in an EV.
Thanks again, Exonian.
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Well, if you need a further test drive just ask :laugh:
Fun it certainly is. I can see these getting a bit of a cult following.
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As the instigator of this thread, I have found it fascinating to see the directions the conversation has taken.
It’s what I like about this forum, like sitting in the pub with all contributors, having a pint and let everyone ruminate on the subject.
This and some other Mk7 and Mk8 topics seem to come round again and again to the same conclusion…… it’s difficult to find another car that ticks so many boxes, unless of course you have more than one car in your drive!
My car history would suggest I should be changing about now but this won’t be happening regardless of where prices go. I just don’t see any point in taking a leap into the unknown when I am comfortable where I am.
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As the instigator of this thread, I have found it fascinating to see the directions the conversation has taken.
It’s what I like about this forum, like sitting in the pub with all contributors, having a pint and let everyone ruminate on the subject.
Yes, it's a ripping forum. I find it a fountain of information - there are some very knowledgeable people such as Exonian and Fred (and others I've missed) - I've learnt heaps here. And I especially enjoy "ruminating over a pint" aspect.
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Yeah we like to talk cars and stuff.... like you say, it feels like being down the pub with your mates.
Unlike some forums which are unfriendly and constantly confrontational or just plain boring :)
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I think knowledgable would be stretching it somewhat as regards to yours truly but thanks anyway Splashalot :kiss: :grin:
Time to order another jar of real ale from the bar and let Thomas do the talking for a while:
https://youtu.be/yrDUsCq1rzY
This car is coming your way Splashalot :cool:
After driving the ID.3 myself, I think the Born shows a bit more promise if ordered in the right spec.
I’d researched the ID.3 a little ahead of me driving it back along after being offered one for a couple of hours. Thinking back I realise I’d got into the ID with the intention of being both subjective and objective to see what I thought I could put up with as regards to trim level and interior design/quality. The intention was to go in open minded after reading a lot of negativity plus having an idea of the design brief to build the car to a price (expensive battery plus Dieselgate fines to pay) and the carbon neutral claims (less parts used equals less environmental impact and less build cost as a side benefit).
Now, we’ve all been brainwashed into thinking soft touch plastics everywhere are the answer to all interior evils, which in reality is a crock of sh1te unless you habitually use the top of your dashboard to bang your head on. You can have attractively textured non spongey plastic or cloth or…
Anyhow, the interior design of the ID.3 might lack soft linings everywhere but I found I wasn’t really bothered in the slightest by that. I was more bothered by the lack of character. A load of shiny fingerprint and scratch magnet black plastic sure isn’t using forward thinking design flair to break up the rest of the matt grey drabness, it’s lazy and outdated. As I said before, it’s an appliance car.
The Born addresses a lot of the flaws of the ID.3 without going overboard on cost (hopefully).
With luck the main drawbacks of floaty ride, nosediving under braking, dreadful Sound-system (unless you pay £40k plus) etc etc will be either not there in the first place or easily optioned around. That’ll keep the ID.3 strengths such as real world acceleration and manoeuvrability packaged up with a less crap interior.
Kinda reminds me of the mk3 and mk4 days where VW punted out garnished turds whilst those of us who actually enjoy the experience of driving something more focussed bought Cupras. Times changed with the advent of the Mk5 GTI but have we gone full circle again with the electric offerings?
I still prefer the MINI Electric despite its huge drawbacks.
I also still think a 7.5 Performance Golf is the perfect package for modern motoring. Hold firm everybody!
https://youtu.be/YkGeCUYdNoo This is what driving fast electric cars reminds me of, a short burst of violent energy followed by silence!
(Great song for traffic light Grand Prix though)
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Thanks for that, Exonian. :smiley:
I think you may be onto something there. I've been following the Born's Aus. release with interest and reading reviews. And like you, to my tastes I think the interior much improved over the ID3. I would have to be certain I could live with the touchscreen, though. But if the software is sorted by release, possibly?
No luck with a Mini Electric test drive here - none available. I did, however, score a test drive in the Ioniq hatch (not the new Ioniq5). Well, blow me down....I loved it! The relative silence, the EV torque shove and the sublime ride (on 16" chubby tyres) had me seriously considering. But then, the same old thing happened: got back into the GTI to drive home and thought "Oooh, this is rather nice. In fact, very nice".
Gee they're such a hard car to replace, these 7/7.5 GTIs. They do so many things very well indeed. I think I'll hold fire until the Born is released and if the price is reasonable and it drives as expected, seriously consider one then. In the meantime, I'll just have to keep slumming it in the GTI! :wink: :grin:
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Spotted an ID4 today whilst parked and I must say it actually looked very nice from the side.
The Mk7/7.5 golf is very much like the mk5 in that it's very hard to move on, if it wasn't for the lovely interior and tech of the mk7, I think I'd have a mk5 gti as my daily.
Don't worry my Ed30 is still the garage queen and isn't going anywhere :wink:
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I really dislike ID.4’s. Everyone in the world seems to want a car the size of a battle tank now. I just don’t get it. Smaller and lighter is far more efficient.
Now Ed30’s are more like it. A good little investment and such nice cars to drive :smiley:
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I really dislike ID.4’s. Everyone in the world seems to want a car the size of a battle tank now. I just don’t get it. Smaller and lighter is far more efficient.
Now Ed30’s are more like it. A good little investment and such nice cars to drive :smiley:
I dislike them too - and they have a really puny, feeble sounding single tone horn :grin:. A guy who lives near me is a VAG salesman and is currently using one. Honks the horn every morning when he leaves for work to amuse his young daughters. It sounds like something you’d expect to find on a 1970’s BL Mini.
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I really dislike ID.4’s. Everyone in the world seems to want a car the size of a battle tank now. I just don’t get it. Smaller and lighter is far more efficient.
Now Ed30’s are more like it. A good little investment and such nice cars to drive :smiley:
They're getting ready for the apocalypse it seems it'll be just Land Cruisers, Hilux's & ID4s in the new world!
A friend is actually trying to sell his A5 he's had all off 6 odd months, because he realises it's far too big for everyday, he went from a mk7 golf and now wants another mk7 golf further alluding to how good the mk7/7.5 is.