Confusion RE MPG

[Gryzor]

All valid points Andy B, very practical, but, unless you need a new car, a used GTI in 6 months time could save you as much in depreciation as you'd save on fuel by driving a brand new GTD for several years. As I've always said, when spending this much money on a car, relative fuel efficiency didn't even enter the financial equation.

[monkeyhanger]

All valid points Andy B, very practical, but, unless you need a new car, a used GTI in 6 months time could save you as much in depreciation as you'd save on fuel by driving a brand new GTD for several years. As I've always said, when spending this much money on a car, relative fuel efficiency didn't even enter the financial equation.

Good luck with a sizeable discount on a 6 month olf VW of any type, let alone a car with limited allocation such as a GTI or GTD. Anything up to a year old will be stickered for at least as much as you can negotiate a discount on a new one for, and the used lot of a VW dealership generally doesn't have much room for haggling.

This is the primary reason I buy VWs new. If I was buying a non German car I would undoubtedly buy it 2nd hand at a year or 2 old to save a wedge of cash (and still have some warranty coverage), but on a VW, the meagre savings that might be made are not worth it.

[Gryzor]

Yeah, fair points MH.  I personally still can't make a convincing financial argument for a GTD though, not at these car prices!

[Andy B]

All valid points Andy B, very practical, but, unless you need a new car, a used GTI in 6 months time could save you as much in depreciation as you'd save on fuel by driving a brand new GTD for several years. As I've always said, when spending this much money on a car, relative fuel efficiency didn't even enter the financial equation.

The problem there for me, in addition to that pointed out by monkeyhangar, is that one of the advantages of going new is that you get to spec out precisely what you want. If you aren't that fussed about this or that, and are prepared to wait a couple of years after a new model is released, then you're right, depreciation of an initial purchase makes a vast difference. But I've always been tempted by the latest thing, and therefore know I must be punished 

Anyway, MPG is just 'one of those things'. It's not the only thing. I'm used to a GTI. I'll try both GTD and GTi and see what it's like, and if I don't like the diesel, then no amount of fuel savings will make me have one. Likewise, if the fuel savings aren't that great, then why would I bother in the first place!

All this procrastination is great though. It means I can save up for longer!

[Gryzor]

I can't say I've driven a GTD, but I have driven a number of diesel cars for business use, and I am always impressed with just two things - motorway performance and economy.  I don't like the way they sound, drive and accelerate around town - never as smooth, quiet, and keen as a good petrol.  The gap may be reducing, but it would take a significant fuel saving to sway me.  At the end of the day I work hard to provide for my family, and my car is my only major vice!

[mcmaddy]

which diesel cars have you driven for business use? if you've never driven a gtd or a decent diesel then you probably couldn't make a statement of never as smooth, quiet, and keen as a good petrol. the gap if any reduced years ago with diesels far more refined now.

[JoeGTI]

which diesel cars have you driven for business use? if you've never driven a gtd or a decent diesel then you probably couldn't make a statement of never as smooth, quiet, and keen as a good petrol. the gap if any reduced years ago with diesels far more refined now.

Yes but still nowhere near. Not even on the same planet. I've come from a mk6 GTD into a mk7 GTI. There's no comparison in terms of refinement and smoothness. Diesels have come on massive leaps and bounds but they are still noisy and clattery and there's no getting away from it.

The MK7 has the stop start and i have to glance at the tacho to see if the engine has stopped! You cant hear it! To be honest, during the cold spell early this year the cold start diesel clatter drove me nuts.

[mcmaddy]

the mk7 gtd has stop start so vw must have done something to rectify the cold start clatter. I'm sure they've got a new system that warms the engine up a lot quicker. petrols are no longer the be all and end all of hot hatches.

[monkeyhanger]

the mk7 gtd has stop start so vw must have done something to rectify the cold start clatter. I'm sure they've got a new system that warms the engine up a lot quicker. petrols are no longer the be all and end all of hot hatches.

My dad's is extremely smooth in the stop-start (I almost didn't notice it start up again - i'd initially had my reservations about stop-start on a GTD), my Scirocco 170TDI is very smooth for a diesel (but not quite as smooth as the GTD unit).

Since VAG ditched PD and embraced CR with piezo-electric injectors they have been the smoothest diesel units on the road. My boss's BMW520D (Sept 2012 model) sounds like an absolute bag of hammers in comparison, especially from cold, and Merc Diesels are rougher than BMW ones. The idling differences are minimal now and above 1500rpm you would be hard pushed to tell you were driving a TDI.

Due to their higher gearing they're noticeably quieter at motorway cruising speed than a GTI and on the 170/177/184 units they actually sound better in the cabin than the 2.0TSI because of the soundaktor device (yes it's artificial, but I care more about what I hear than what everyone else hears and it's the same one they put in the "R") but yet again, above 1500rpm, when you put your foot down in a high output TDI it does have a decent engine note.

VAG seem to be slow on the uptake with increasing TDI output, unlike BMW which have been pushing 6PS a year about 3 years in a row with their 2.0D unit. They seem to only up the output when they can work out how to do it without compromising refinement and economy.

Buy a GTD if you care about MPG, buy a GTI if you care less about it or hate diesels because you think they'll drive like your mams Peugeot 205 diesel you used to drive 20 years ago when you first passed your test.

[Hawaii-Five-O]

the mk7 gtd has stop start so vw must have done something to rectify the cold start clatter. I'm sure they've got a new system that warms the engine up a lot quicker. petrols are no longer the be all and end all of hot hatches.

My dad's is extremely smooth in the stop-start (I almost didn't notice it start up again - i'd initially had my reservations about stop-start on a GTD), my Scirocco 170TDI is very smooth for a diesel (but not quite as smooth as the GTD unit).

Since VAG ditched PD and embraced CR with piezo-electric injectors they have been the smoothest diesel units on the road. My boss's BMW520D (Sept 2012 model) sounds like an absolute bag of hammers in comparison, especially from cold, and Merc Diesels are rougher than BMW ones. The idling differences are minimal now and above 1500rpm you would be hard pushed to tell you were driving a TDI.

Due to their higher gearing they're noticeably quieter at motorway cruising speed than a GTI and on the 170/177/184 units they actually sound better in the cabin than the 2.0TSI because of the soundaktor device (yes it's artificial, but I care more about what I hear than what everyone else hears and it's the same one they put in the "R") but yet again, above 1500rpm, when you put your foot down in a high output TDI it does have a decent engine note.

VAG seem to be slow on the uptake with increasing TDI output, unlike BMW which have been pushing 6PS a year about 3 years in a row with their 2.0D unit. They seem to only up the output when they can work out how to do it without compromising refinement and economy.

Buy a GTD if you care about MPG, buy a GTI if you care less about it or hate diesels because you think they'll drive like your mams Peugeot 205 diesel you used to drive 20 years ago when you first passed your test.

Sir Monkeyhanger, defender of diesels!

Only pulling your leg son

Someone's got it do it. We are on a GTI forum after all...