GolfGTIforum.co.uk
General => Shows, events, track days, motorsport => Topic started by: Paul86S2 on 23 February 2010, 23:00
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Anyone got any good recommendations?
Need a better set than currently on the car.
I'm leaning towards AVO at the moment but interested in what is working well for other track users. Reasonable budget of £500 but if its going to cost more like £1000 then I will seriously consider buying an M3.
Paul
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When I had my Clio182 track car i had cheap coilovers, but i drove a mate,s 182 with LEDA coilovers and the handling was just fantastic... and they are fully adjustable which is great for track use
www.leda.com (http://www.leda.com)
downside expensive :sad:
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Heard great things about KW.
I'll have a chat with my mate Chris as he bought some coilovers for his B5.5 passat that he's really impressed with (He's a racer so knows what feels good) and they're rebranded something or others but I can't remember the details.
Nick
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Cheers guys, email sent to Leda for prices (Ive got them on my 928 and they are good)
KW's seem to get a good write up so will be interested to see what your mate says Nick.
The cheap coilovers on the car are better than the standard setup but they are letting the handling down now.
Paul
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You thought about quality struts and springs as well? I know it's much harder to corner weight a car with fixed height suspension but I'm not sure if you're going to go that far.
I picked up a full set of barely used Koni top adjustable for £180 delivered off ebay. THey were even MKIII ones. They work really well on the Golf and it's nice and flat through the corners but has enough give to soak up enough of the bumps not to spit you out of bumpy corners. I really rate them BUT I've never tracked car on coilovers so I can't compare.
The only other brand I really love and have experience of is GAZ. Had a set of adjustable shocks on my old mini cooper. Build quality was awesome and they were superb shocks on road and track with 32 point damping adjustment. I'm sure they do Golf stuff but I think it might be pricey.
nick
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Went on a trackday the other day and the Golfs had Gaz Gold adjustable coilovers. They are now on my list of purchases :wink:
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Done some research:
Leda's can supply coilovers with bump and rebound adjustment via a single control and they come in at £1200 plus the springs at either £43 each or £63 each for Eibach all plus VAT. They can be rebuilt fairly cheaply.
Gaz GHA's are fast road coilovers and the fronts are adjustable for rebound only and the rears are rebound and bump adjustable. Various prices around the £520 to £550 mark all inclusive.
Gaz Golds are track orientated with all rebound and bump adjustable via single control. Can get these for £800 all inclusive.
Downside of the Gaz ones is there are a lot of negative reviews on the quality of the rust proofing plating and they had some serious issues with the bottom mounts cracking the other year.
Bilstein B16's are adjustable and come in about £1000 all inclusive.
Koni Coilovers seem good quality but are only bump adjustable and come in at £1000 all inclusive.
KW V3's have really good write ups and are bump and rebound adjustable but are about £1300 all in.
Avo GTZ's are their fast road setup, but the rears are adjustable dampers and not coilovers. About £500 all in.
Avo GTX's are their track version with coilovers all round fully adjustable with inverted dampers. About £1000 all in.
Avo also seem to have a lot of negative reviews.
Still looking at a couple of other options.
Paul
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Bilstein B16's are adjustable and come in about £1000 all inclusive.
That's where I'd put my money.
Unless you're some sort of super-hero you're just going to annoy yourself and waste a lot of time mucking about with the settings.
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Gaz, Avo, and Leda all have plenty of complaints about them and all are too much money to take a chance on.
Too much adjustment means too much messing around and unless you really know what your doing and how to drive could be a complete waste of time and effort. I know I'll spend all day adjusting things and still not be able to work out what is best.
Also looked at BC and D2 coilovers, D"s get bad write ups and BC weren't inspiring enough when telling me about their products. It also looks like quite a few of these coilovers are all made in the same factory but spec'd slightly differantly.
Going to put some poly top mounts on first and see if that improves things, Ive found a bit of play in one side.
Definately leaning towards the Bilsteins but its a shed load of money. Need to decide whether to spend the money or buy an M3.
Paul
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Check the servicing costs for an M3.
And you KNOW you'd be there looking at dearer coilovers for that in a years time.
Although it would mean rear drive fun and it would open up drift days to you as well as track days.....
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Check the servicing costs for an M3.
And you KNOW you'd be there looking at dearer coilovers for that in a years time.
Although it would mean rear drive fun and it would open up drift days to you as well as track days.....
I know maintenance, running and parts costs were what stopped me buying an M3 or Scooby in the first place.
There is always something else to buy or spend money on.
Its a bit difficult trying to justify spending more on suspension than the car cost in the first place, but I'm not sure Im ready to part company with the Golf anytime soon.
For rear drive fun I need to dust the 928 off this year.
Paul
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Its a bit difficult trying to justify spending more on suspension than the car cost in the first place
Haha - I don't think you can work on that basis if you get keen with your track car.
For rear drive fun I need to dust the 928 off this year.
Good point, well put.
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Gaz, Avo, and Leda all have plenty of complaints about them and all are too much money to take a chance on.
Too much adjustment means too much messing around and unless you really know what your doing and how to drive could be a complete waste of time and effort. I know I'll spend all day adjusting things and still not be able to work out what is best.
Definately leaning towards the Bilsteins but its a shed load of money.
Watching this thread with interest. I agree I don't wanna go to trackdays and finetune the suspension all day:
A - because trackdays cost loads and I wanna be on track
B - I don't really know what im doing lol
Just want some sh!t hot, well built, easy to set up track orientated coilovers
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Haha - I don't think you can work on that basis if you get keen with your track car.
Yes I know, it's just making the decision to carry on with the Golf or start again with something more powerful and faster. The decision is to make the Golf handle better so quicker in and out the corners or get something faster down the straight.
I got absolutely stuffed by a Mk2 Golf the other week who had a standard engine but had spent a small fortune on handling and suspension (probably a lot better driver as well). At certain corners I couldn't keep the car on track where he was going around them a lot faster.
Watching this thread with interest. I agree I don't wanna go to trackdays and finetune the suspension all day:
A - because trackdays cost loads and I wanna be on track
B - I don't really know what im doing lol
Yes with you on that one, dont want anything too complicated with seperate bump and rebound settings. The Bilsteins have a single 9 setting control which adjusts bump and rebound.
Can't see me getting shot of the Golf so time to go to the next level.
Paul
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Quick update
On closer checking the Bilstein B16 suspension is selling between £1300 and £1500 apart from a couple of sets on ebay for £1014 from balance motorsport.
Just done a deal with them direct for a set at £800 so they are now on order. (Apparently they have two sets from the Bilstein rep cheap from some bankrupt stock)
Also bought a set of poly flex top mounts and bearings so hopefully a big differance will be seen in the handling stakes.
Paul
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sounds like you got a good deal!
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sounds like you got a good deal!
Yes good deal price wise - lifetime warranty - good reputation.
Lets hope they handle 800 quid better.
Paul
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they have thick pistons as well from what i have seen. nice and stiff :afro:
what top mounts did you go for?
i had some jom ones on the mk2, which were awesome until the bearings fell apart after 12 months :rolleyes:
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The top mounts are Polyurethane ones from a company called Floflex.
I have got VW VR6 ones on at the moment and there is play in the drives side one. They have lasted two years plus though and about 20 plus airfield and trackdays.
It'll be interesting to see how long these ones last.
Paul
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Let us know how you get on with the Bilsteins.
DannyP's got a set of B8s wearing a hole on a shelf at the moment.....
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Did you get B14s or B16s? That is very cheap for B16s, even old stock.
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B16's. I tried to get the other set for same price and they werent having any of it, god knows how he got them thats cheap. They want 1k for the other set
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B16's. I tried to get the other set for same price and they werent having any of it, god knows how he got them thats cheap. They want 1k for the other set
Definately b16's, they arrived within 2 days and are now fitted. Total price for supply and delivery was £813.98.
They said they were from a dealers bankrupt stock from the Bilstein Rep so they got them cheap. This seems to be verified by the original shipping address on the box. I offered them £800 on ebay and they said it would need to be £864 to cover their sellers costs on ebay so I contacted them direct and did the deal for £800 plus p&p. They had 2 sets on ebay but only one of them may have been cheap stock.
Anyway all fitted, the coilovers look very good quality but are slightly thicker than the ones I had on. They are very close to the 195 tyres and i also run 205 tyres so I need to fit some spacers and then get the alignment done.
Initial with both on second from softest setting looks encouraging, its the first time the car has been comfortable on the road. A quick drive last night with both on the hardest setting nearly loosened my teeth. So somewhere in between will be a good track setting.
Paul
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Thats a brilliant deal. Did you notice much low speed difference (under 20mph) after adjusting them?
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Thats a brilliant deal. Did you notice much low speed difference (under 20mph) after adjusting them?
Not really played with them to that extent to be honest. Ride height needs adjusting and alignment needs sorting. Just a quick drive up the ring road to see if they work.
Will get it all sorted and have a good play with the settings.
Got a trackday booked at Pembrey at the end of next month so it needs to be sorted to give them a good try out then.
Paul
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Cool. Hope they are good. I have a set of B14s on the way - couldn't justify the extra cost of b16s plus i'm not gonna do a huge amount of trackdays. Hope Bilstein get the damping right!
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Spent the day finishing off the suspension today.
Lowered the rear down to an acceptable level, and then had to remove one and refit to stop it squeeking. Had to refit the Flo flex top mounts because they are made wrong. The hole through the centre above the bearing was / is too small and the nut grips the top mount. Had to drill out the hole with a hole saw and then refit. Luckily I didn't have to remove the whole strut. Fitted some new threaded bushes above the bearing because the nuts just didn't look right.
Found at that the garage that fitted my previous coilovers had fitted them wrong. They had put a nut below the bearing and the bearings were sitting on the nuts and not the spring caps and weren't working properly and were now broken. Useless tossers.
Just need the alignment set now.
Quick drive this evening and all is good, ride is very comfortable on the low settings and steering feel is good. Should be spot on when I get the alignment done next week.
Cant wait for Pembrey trackday next month - should have been doing an airfield day tomorrow but there was too much else going on this week.
Paul
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An interesting thread this. I've just bought another GTi, my third one, for very occasional trackday/Ring trip stuff and fun road use. I've just started selling my old M3 track/sprint/drift car and can happily confirm that there is a significant difference in modification costs between the Golfs and M3's. It's one thing for road use but for track use, the costs quickly spiral. Still; it did me proud for three years :)
I share a similar line of thought to Paul; it seems strange to spend so much on one component of a car compared to the purchase cost. As one of the chaps mentioned, is new OE shocks and springs an option? How do mk3 OE shocks and springs differ from mk2 ones?
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Mk2 shocks and springs should be interchangeable, at some stage the "pig tails" spring tops changed size but they all should fit.
My thoughts on the cost of the parts was because I wasn't sure whether I was into the Golf for the long term. The purchase cost of the car is I suppose irrelevant especially considering how much fun it has given me. I bought the Golf because it was a cheaper way to carry on with trackdays. It has almost become an obsession and I'm glad the parts are cheaper on the Golf than the M3 I was considering buying.
Paul
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Ok never made it to Pembrey because we got stuck in Tenerife with the volcanic ash cloud - its a hard life!
Went to Hullavington today. The differance in the suspension is like the differance in night and day. After a few sessions we settled on the fronts set on 4 and the rears set on 3 (1 is hardest, 9 softest). The airfield surface is smooth in places and rough in others. A few surface changes from concrete to tarmac and some loose material around some minor surface irregularities, quite a few camber changes so a rock hard setting would be no good.
The car now feels balanced from front to rear, the rear is now predictable whereas before it would let go without much notice when it went beyond the limits. The car now feels like it drives smoothly around the tight hairpin corners where before it felt like it was hopping around the corner and hanging on for its life. The grip is a lot better and you don't feel like your running out of track in the tight places and feel like you can nail it and the grip is available.
Previously it had TA Technix coilovers which I thought were ok on the track but pretty awful on the road. Now I know why the Bilsteins are expensive, they are definately worth every penny. On a good surface track like Combe etc we will be able to stiffen up the suspension some more.
Roll on Combe next month .
Paul
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good stuff! did you get to chose the spring rates?
looking forward to trying to keep up next month :laugh:
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brillaint info there , im still trying to take it all in , has or can anyone vote spax RSX?
They are the name on the land speed record :smiley:
Joe
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Watching this thread with interest. I agree I don't wanna go to trackdays and finetune the suspension all day
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brillaint info there , im still trying to take it all in , has or can anyone vote spax RSX?
was going to ask the same thing about the spax rsx coilies. They do seem good for the price. They are expensive for me as they are so cant really spending much more, but i dont really need it as my car is for road use (although i might do a few trackdays next year if the car is ready)
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(although i might do a few trackdays next year if the car is ready)
Let me know when and where and I'll bring popcorn and a hammer. :grin:
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(although i might do a few trackdays next year if the car is ready)
Let me know when and where and I'll bring popcorn and a hammer. :grin:
and your tools! and dont say your hammer is your tool cause your staying well away from my mk3, i dont want my windows smashed and doors dented and find my engine and loom missing :D
just trying to keep the car away from the dust sheet and heated garage :D
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The hammers are for pulling your car straight when you hit the armco.
I'll bring my metric hammer, you don't have any imperial fittings on the car, do you?
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The hammers are for pulling your car straight when you hit the armco.
I'll bring my metric hammer, you don't have any imperial fittings on the car, do you?
c**t :D