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General => Shows, events, track days, motorsport => Topic started by: Ian Carvell on 30 January 2009, 23:29
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Press release from www.golfgtiracing.co.uk
Hi All,
We're starting another race series for 2009 !.
The press release is shown below, but essentially it will be for 2 wheel drive VAG vehicles introduced prior to 2002. This should get some VAG models back onto the track which currently are refugees from other race series and don't have a properly focussed forum in which to race.
Also, for the first time at club level, we'll be allowing diesels to enter !.
The Mk2 Golf Championship will continue as a fantastic low cost option. We expect budgets to be higher for the new series, but it does offer the opportunity for some of you to move over to this alternative in the future.
The Golfs should be in the same paddock as the Trophy cars, so there should be quite a VAG presence !.
On behalf of the committee,
John.
VAG Trophy Press Release.
New VAG Race Series.
The team behind the Mk2 Golf Race Championship are planning to launch a new race series in 2009 for Volkswagen Audi Group (VAG) cars named the ‘VAG Trophy’. This will be run through the 750 Motor Club.
Overview.
Key features :
· Types of vehicle. The series is intended to provide a format for ANY 2 wheel drive model from the VAG portfolio manufactured before 2002. This includes Volkswagen, Audi, Seat and Skoda.
· Diesels. We will actively encourage the participation of DIESEL engined models. The organiser’s believe this is a ‘first’ at club level.
· Value for money. It is recognised that budgets are being cut in the current economic climate. We believe the format will facilitate some very quick lap times at comparatively low cost.
· Classes. There are 2 classes for both petrol and diesel models, allowing both near standard and modified vehicles to compete. The vehicles will be categorised on a Power to Weight basis.
Likely Vehicles.
The organisers expect to attract vehicles of the following types :
1, DIESEL VAG models.
2, Ex. Vento Challenge cars.
3, Ex. Polo G40 Cup cars.
4, Ex. ‘Slick 50’ Golf Mk1 & 2 variants.
5, Ex. VW Cup cars.
6, Ex. Trackday VAG models.
7, Seat Cupras.
8, Modified VAG road cars which are adapted for race use.
Series ethos.
The series will build on the basic ethos of the Golf Championship and the organisers will actively promote :
· Highly competitive racing. .
· Strict driving standards (non-contact !).
· Excellent value for money.
· Friendly and helpful environment in which to race.
Series structure
The series will commence in the summer of 2009 and be run over 6 rounds at 5 venues (provisionally).
Further information
Further information and draft regulations will be available from our email address : vagtrophyinfo@aol.com.
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im looking forward to this! hopefully there will be lots of old vags on the grid, like from the vw cup from years gone by
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this sounds likea great idea... does anyone know what sort of budget it would be?? I did some racing in the past (makes me sound old lol im only 18)i did junior max in karting at club level(then it cost too much lol) Iv raced ginetta juniors (gt junior series) and some testing in T car ( junior race car series-now gone) aswell as fomula renault 1600 in belgium (cost A LOT!! :laugh:)when i just turned 14! as it was i only made it to qualifing as i crashed on the last lap of it! oh well....
i was just wondering as i have been out of motorsport for well over a year now and im starting to feel it!! the last race i did was at brands i think in the ginetta juniors and that was way back in 2007!
I do really miss it but as with most motorsport im sure everyone knows it aint cheap to compete! I was looking at the golf gti mk2 championship recently and was wondering what that would cost aswell...
if anyone races in the series or plans to race in the new one do you know roughly the season budget?
i am just desperate to get back into racing!!!!
Steve
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i am just desperate to get back into racing!!!!
Not sure your parents would share the enthusiasm quite so much these days, which may be something of an issue....
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Hi there,
The regs are written to allow for most types and budgets of cars, and I recon you can build a Class 'A' car for about £6k and a Class 'B' car for about £5k.....and if you use your head you can build a very fast car for not a lot of money.
I think this would appeal to a lot of the engineers in the sport aswell as the up and coming hot shoes.
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Might make it out to some of these :) be good to see some old VAG cars out on the track.
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I think this would appeal to a lot of the engineers in the sport
Are you planning on running a Scirocco in this series Ian, now that you've switched the Seat Leon Supercopa car across to Britcar?
How much would you say a competitive Scirocco would cost to build? £15,000?
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I would say about £6k....now that VW Cup spec boxes are heavilly ballasted.
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I would say about £6k....now that VW Cup spec boxes are heavilly ballasted.
Am I right in saying the spec of these cars is carbs / TBs, fully worked heads, high comp, cams, weld in cages etc? Full VW Cup basically, without downgrade?
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No...you can run it with standard intake, heads cams...basically Mk2 series spec engine and gearbox.
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No...you can run it with standard intake, heads cams...basically Mk2 series spec engine and gearbox.
In which case you'd do the Mk2 series and challenge for overall honours surely??
What about if you wanted to run competitively, sharp end, top 5? Those cars have carbs / TBs, fully worked heads, high comp, cams, weld in cages etc?
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No....you can compete for winning races with standard intake, cams etc etc with a £6k car build, if you pull on a bit of VW tuning common sense.
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No....you can compete for winning races with standard intake, cams etc etc with a £6k car build, if you pull on a bit of VW tuning common sense.
Are you sure Ian? Your brother's old Scirocco was much quicker than your £6k Golf championship car at the Donington trackday, Nov 2007. Ex-VW Cup cars are allowed in this new series, and we know they are far faster by definition.
Could a Scirocco for this new series, in race-winning spec, really be built for £6k?
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A Mk2 Golf series car weighs 1025kg, a Scirocco will be much much lighter.
Oh and Robs old car would run heavier than it did in VW Cup.
Mk2 Golfs can run at a more modified state to remain on a level playing field, or that is the intention.
Low weight...low power.
Heavy weight...high power.
Low weight & Low Power = low cost...if you are on a budget you need to be looking at the lighter VAG cars.
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So what if we take a Scirocco with a 16-valve breathed lump in it - cams, head, carbs, high comp - running a manageable but conservative 200 bhp?
To actually make that car power-to-weight equivalent with a Golf championship car (say 160 brake, 156 per tonne), the Scirocco would need to weigh a heavily ballasted ~1280kgs.
Unrealistic, so alternatively, let's up the power on the Golf Championship car from 160 brake to say 180 = 176 per tonne. Still on k-jet, some headwork, but moderate, done to a budget, but enough (you say) to win races. Perhaps a £6k budget, since you advertised your MK2 Championship car at £5.5k?
The Scirocco would need to weigh 1135kgs to have power-to-weight equivalence.
We're talking about the amounts of lead that causes MSA scrutineers to halt proceedings... especially as I'd guess your brother's Scirocco starts off, with driver (no ballast), in the low 800 kgs range.
That's 300+ kgs of lead.
I ask, how can these cars ever run on a level playing field?
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Robs old VW Cup car unrestricted made a maximum of 192bhp un-restricted. My standard Mk2 Golf GTI Championship car made 170bhp on the same rollers....only 22bhp less, but the weight for a std 16v class car is lighter than an 8v fully modified car so will compete on a level playing field....which is the good thing about the series, budget racers can compete in seriously quick cars for very little money if they understand VW Tuning.
Have you read the regulations?
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Sorry I missed the pont about the 16v modified rocco.....it has been written out by stating that there is a maximum amount of ballast to be carried...60kg in each passenger footwell IIRC....so it will either never happen or the car will have to have full interior, either way it will still be on a level playing field.
This is the the kind of stuff we should be debating on forums Chris......not all that other rubbish.
Think of the brand above all...thats what is important, we should be working together as proper VW enthusiasts!!!!!!
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Full interior might be nice though.....big amp and sub in the boot.
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I got my wife a lovely handbag today.
Would you guys like to borrow it. One at a time?
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choudl some one point us to the new regs then.
i'm getti ng inpression choudl rock up with a mk1 or two with a modifyed 16s engine in it. that just blew the low budget out the window.
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choudl some one point us to the new regs then.
i'm getti ng inpression choudl rock up with a mk1 or two with a modifyed 16s engine in it. that just blew the low budget out the window.
If you email vagtrophyinfo@aol.com they will be able to send you the info.
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You can use a modified 16v, but the more modifications you run, the more weight you have to run so the Power to Weight ratios stay the same regardless of weather you go low weight, low power (cheap) or high power high weight (more expensive).
For example a Mk2 with a standard 16v engine will run significantly lighter than a Mk2 with a highly modified 16v engine.
So the guy with a very highly modified 16v motor and pots of cash isn't going to have an advantage over the shoe string racer.
Should make fantastic racing because you will get some cars that are very quick in a straiht line, but slow in corners so there should be lots of overtaking.
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Check out this old VW racing footage.....it will be mega if we can do this again in 2009 in V.A.G. Trophy.
Just goes to show that low bhp/low weight (cheap) can compete with high bhp/high weight (expensive)
www.youtube.com/watch?v=u2YOjIaN880
IMO best race ever in VW Cup history!
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so if im reading this right, I could have a competative jetta with more power to compensate for the boot
??
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Yes, that is correct, provided you can get down to the weight limit for the engine/level of tune that you are running to.
If you contact the organisers there are a few incentives to get involved now.....it is now very very cheap to dip in and have a go!
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hi ian ,chris adams ex vw cup geezer!! am building mk2 golf with 2.0 tdi engine for vag trophy,just seen updated regs so car is now eligible!!woo hoo!! ran engine in 4 motion mk5 golf but car weighed just under 1400kg so was a bit on the sluggish side to say the least!! what would weight have to be for 200bhp?? and is there a limit on torque? ta mate
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Hi Chris, I have only just noticed this....yes there is a new class now which caters for the more modified engine.
Are you going to get out this year?
I am taking out my road car for a bit of fun.....need to race something.
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surely there is an advantage to be had by building an enigne with a relativly low output, even mappuing it to make less power but make X bhp very soon on and just hold , if you have a light car. as it's area under the graph not peacks that count
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Yes, that is correct, utilizing a low weight car with low levels of engine tune does provide a better spread of power, but generally the lower weight cars that can take advantage of this are the ones that cannot fit in the wider tyres that the big torque engines require....so it all balances out at the end of the day.
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Is this series going to be running in 2010?
I have a standard mk4 golf gti 51 reg. Whats the minimum changes I could do to get it in to the series for next year? I have read the regs but they are a little confusing for a newbie.
Would it be easier and cheaper to start from a mk2?
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Is this series going to be running in 2010?
I have a standard mk4 golf gti 51 reg. Whats the minimum changes I could do to get it in to the series for next year? I have read the regs but they are a little confusing for a newbie.
Would it be easier and cheaper to start from a mk2?
I would think the minimum you would need is a rollcage, kill switch, extinguisher, race seat & harnesses.
Maybe try emailing vagtrophyinfo@aol.com
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Is this series going to be running in 2010?
I have a standard mk4 golf gti 51 reg. Whats the minimum changes I could do to get it in to the series for next year? I have read the regs but they are a little confusing for a newbie.
Would it be easier and cheaper to start from a mk2?
No, a Mk4 is fine, we have a Mk1, Mk2, Vento, Scirocco, Corrado, Mk5, SEAT Leon, Audi 80....infact the Mk4 is the only one we haven't got so bring it out and show us the way....its deffo lighter than a Mk5!!!
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Hi Ian, is there any pics or threads about the cars competing in the series? cant seem to find much information on them. Just want to see how much prep has gone in to them.
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Not really, but there are all ends of the scale from the Jan's Audi Super Touring Car Audi 80, so my £1500 Scirocco road car,so dont worry about the level of the racing, there is always a place to race in VAG Trophy!!!