Harness vs standard seat belt

[euro dave]

We've bought some Corbeau Forza bucket seats for the MK2, and are considering 3" harnesses and where to mount them.

However, looking at this (very useful) guide it appears to me that perhaps we're better off using the standard seat belts with something like a G-Lock (?) rather than mounting the harnesses incorrectly.

http://www.schrothracing.com/docs/Competition_Instructions.pdf

I used to be involved with crash analysis on FE models, and I can see the reasons why mounting is vital, yet there is a lot of misinformation out there.  Even the idea of a roll cage confuses me as flexibility in a car body in certain places is vital to save too much energy hitting the occupants.

Without a roll cage there looks to be a limited number of options for a harness.  Even with a roll cage it looks difficult. 

My personal conclusion is to stick with the manufacturer's seat belt for now.

Any advice welcome, both for cages and harnesses (and seats). 

[VeeDubGTI16v]

i agree, im not putting harnesses in until i have a proper cage with a harness bar. i feel supported enough with a bucket seat and the standard belt for now

[euro dave]

With the standard belt does the bucket seat force the lap belt to ride higher?

Even a normal 6 point cage seems to need a horizontal at mid-height to mount the harnesses to.  Lots of expense.  Perhaps a customised 1/2 cage is the ideal option.

[Horney]

I ran harnesses in my mini and I loved them. Luckily the mini rear beanch design allows them to fit within specs as you can mount the top straps to the rear beanch belt mounting positions. Once correclty fitted and tightened up you can corner so much harder as you feel truly connected to the car.

Badly/incorrectly fitted however and you're risking your life.

nick

[VeeDubGTI16v]

it does sit a bit higher but you can pull it tight and then its ok. i could do with one of those cg locks really to keep it locked tight

[euro dave]

Yeah, last thing you want is to submarine out of the seat.

[Ivor Mk4 Turbo]

For nothing more than track days, I rate the CG-Lock very highly indeed.

[Diamond Hell]

I've said my piece to Dave on this already.

There is no point installing harnesses, unless you have a full cage, with harness bars, idealling keeping the angle of the belt out the back of the seat within 10degrees to the bar.

A 'customised half cage' is pretty much a complete waste of time and effort.  It provides nowhere near the level of protection that a 6 or 10 point cage will.  It also won't provide the chassis stiffness which is a huge bonus of a proper cage.

Any cage in your car really means you should be using helmets inside the car at all times, as you have various metal bars much closer to your head.

It's a complete package - 5/6 point 3" harness + bucket seats + cage = excellent track car.

It also = crap road car, but these are the choices we have to make.

[danny_p]

the day the full cage is orderd is the day the 294 degree cams go in      and the same day my daily gets a towbar