GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk7 => Topic started by: clarky92 on 01 April 2018, 15:40
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Real World Ownership Review - Is the PP worth the extra - GTI 7.5
Seeing as I ran a 7.5 GTI with no PP for 6 months, and have now run a 7.5 GTI with PP for 1 month, I thought I would do a quick write up to help anyone in the future who can't decide and would like to read a real world review from someone who has daily driven both. Both cars had the DSG, not manual. Both cars run in according to the VW manual. New PP has gone past break in period and been used to its fullest for a few hundred miles now.
Non PP was run from August 17 to end of Feb 18, so the end of the warm dry roads in summer through to the worst winter I've seen in years with snow etc recently.
The new PP collected 1st March and only been used on the damp, wet and snow covered roads.
Both cars left standard, didn't change anything from factory.
I covered almost 5,000 miles in the non PP GTI. Loved the car, it was a massive step up in build quality, refinement, technology and general driving please from my previous car - MK7 Fiesta ST. I can't think of a time when I thought it didn't have enough power. The perfect sweet spot so you can use the whole rev range and change up just before you get into license loosing territory. The DSG6 overall was great. Had a few moments when it got confused in auto mode but these were rare. Smooth gear changes and as quick as I could have expected when going for a blast in sport using the paddles. Exhaust sounded good for a stock car when someone else drove the car past me (I wanted to see what it sounded like from outside). DSG farts were great, especially when going through a tunnel. Towards the end of ownership, it would even DSG fart in eco lol Great car for commuting, just stick it in normal mode, DSG in D and off you go. Need to overtake, pull the DSG down to S and more than enough power and torque from the 230ps. Only slight negative I will say - I didn't like the brakes. They stopped the car perfectly in normal daily driving, but always felt a little under powered when pushing on, not to the point of any issues, but I felt they could have been better. Not a major negative, but worth mentioning. Traction - Now this very relevant. I ran the stock Bridgestones throughout whole ownership. Anything other than completely dry roads I experienced wheel hop and spin. In a straight line, pulling out of junctions etc. Just had to adjust driving style a bit. Even had spin in daily commuting if the roads were damp and applied just a little bit too much throttle leaving a roundabout or lights.
Overall, happy and pleased with the non PP - very good car. Liked the platform a lot so I jumped back into another 7.5 Golf straight away.
Time came to change the car. Didn't go for a 7.5 R for many reasons, some listed - cost, almost double insurance premium, little extra fuel usage, prefer the GTI looks and heritage, love the lightness of the GTI and it feels a lot more nimble throwing round corners compared to the R I test drove. Plus the R to me was just boring! Yes its quick as you like off a set of traffic lights, but you just plant your foot and it goes. I want to drive the car and have to think about it not just rely on 4wd. Just personal opinion.
Picked up the 7.5 PP 1st March. Covered 1200 miles now so run in period over and have stretched its legs. Using to do the same commute, and going for a blast on the same roads as the non PP in same conditions towards end of previous ownership.
Firstly, to save any reading any further, the PP is 100% worth the extra. No doubt in my mind what so ever.
The extra power - 245ps. The extra power IS noticeable. You can feel a little more torque mid range. Not a huge amount, but it is there. Easiest way to explain - if anyone ran a MK7 Fiesta ST standard, then had the Mountune MP215 installed, its like that minus the recirc hiss.
DSG7 - Fantastic, absolutely awesome. Smooth as silk in D on the commute and a LOT faster when using the paddles in S. The downshifts are out of this world. With the box in S and on the paddles, in 4th get to 2.5 - 3k on the revs, down shift and you get a wonderful rev match pop from the exhaust. The change is instant, blink and you'll miss it. Upshifts as good if not faster than DSG6. The extra gear is great when on the motorway, around 2,100K at 80 mph.
Golf R brakes - I am so so happy with the brakes. Massive difference, felt it immediately on collection when driving home. This is how the non PP should have felt from factory. Stops perfectly when pushing on and not grabby at all in the daily commute. Plus they look great aswell, especially if you stick with the 18" alloys, really beefy.
The diff - I have tried to read up on this, how it works etc but I will admit I'm not mechanically minded so wont go into any detail. I will say this - my god what a difference. When going for a blast its awesome. The non PP turned in well, but the PP just feels like its on rails. Its progressive, it doesn't feel jerky, it feels natural but just grips for days. From a completely non technical point of view - its amazing to drive with. Confidence inspiring. I can't say I notice any extra weight when throwing the car into a corner, it just feels planted.
Leading to my next point. Traction. I imagine this is to do with the diff. I gave my non PP back with a lot of tread left on the tyres. I didn't measure the depth with a gauge, but just using the raised markers on the tyres, there was a lot of meat there. I will say this with my hand on my heart. I have not broken traction once with the PP. Straight line, corners, leaving a roundabout etc. For the last 270 miles or so I have been using all the PP's power and rev range. Same roads, same tyres (yes they are brand new, but the old ones were not worn that much at all). The non PP was breaking traction once it hit similar mileage, after run in period. I'm not making any claims or trying to prove something, just stating my real world experience.
Noise - lovely cracks and pops on startup which weren't present on the non PP. When pushing on its sounds the same as the non PP. Only negative is it refuses to DSG fart on the 7.5 PP. See another thread about this - multiple owners experience the same.
The red GTI badges - well they look great and are the icing on the cake 😉
Everything else is standard GTI trim so no point commenting.
In my opinion, the PP is worth the extra money 100%. If you daily the car and like to go for blast a few times a week and/ or on the weekend, you will appreciate the extra the PP gives you and feel like you get your moneys worth. If your buying the GTI as a motorway tool or town run around and will stretch its legs rarely like once a month on some A roads, maybe its not worth the extra for you. Easiest way I can put it.
Both PP and non PP are very very good cars and I would recomend this platform time and time again. The manual vs DSG, 3 vs 5 door, optional extras blah blah whatever, that debate will go on till the end of time. All subjective to owners taste.
But to sum up, a 7.5 GTI PP with DSG is a serious bit of kit.
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Excellent review clarky :smiley:
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Nicely put clarky and well done for taking the time to post it up :afro:
The diff works a bit like the 4wd system on the R but side to side instead of front back.
It's clever but fairly simple in design and works really well.
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Brilliant review and I fully agree with all you have said , I have had my 7.5 pp for 2 weeks now , only done 300 miles so far
This compared to my previous mk7 2014 standard gti is like night and day , as you say traction and pushing on is awesome no wheel spin just drive even on wet slippery roundabouts
I know I have only 300 miles but seems really tight as if it’s holding back some of the power , I have read that the break in 1000 miles has higher oil pressure and slight power limit . Did you notice this with yours ??
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Forgot to mention not that we buy these cars for mpg figures, but the PP is already 3mpg average better. Same petrol station same roads same commute time etc!
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Brilliant review and I fully agree with all you have said , I have had my 7.5 pp for 2 weeks now , only done 300 miles so far
This compared to my previous mk7 2014 standard gti is like night and day , as you say traction and pushing on is awesome no wheel spin just drive even on wet slippery roundabouts
I know I have only 300 miles but seems really tight as if it’s holding back some of the power , I have read that the break in 1000 miles has higher oil pressure and slight power limit . Did you notice this with yours ??
Yes definately. Engine felt more 'free' for want of a better word. I was really paying attention this time with this new car and kept a note on my phone at each 100 mile marker if the car felt different. It happened at over 900 and less than 1060 according to my 'diary' lol so its either at 1,000 miles or 1500km - about 930 miles. Whatever vw set
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An interesting comparison.
When you mention improved turn in, were you running both cars on the same tyres?
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An interesting comparison.
When you mention improved turn in, were you running both cars on the same tyres?
Yup same standard tyres that come with 18 parker alloys even very similar road conditions
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Brilliant review and I fully agree with all you have said , I have had my 7.5 pp for 2 weeks now , only done 300 miles so far
This compared to my previous mk7 2014 standard gti is like night and day , as you say traction and pushing on is awesome no wheel spin just drive even on wet slippery roundabouts
I know I have only 300 miles but seems really tight as if it’s holding back some of the power , I have read that the break in 1000 miles has higher oil pressure and slight power limit . Did you notice this with yours ??
Yes definately. Engine felt more 'free' for want of a better word. I was really paying attention this time with this new car and kept a note on my phone at each 100 mile marker if the car felt different. It happened at over 900 and less than 1060 according to my 'diary' lol so its either at 1,000 miles or 1500km - about 930 miles. Whatever vw set
That’s good to know , best get out and get some miles on it .....thanks
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I've got the 7 pp and not once have I lost traction on the standard Bridgestones. The PP must have an awful lot to do with this as many others on here constantly slate the tyres.
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I've got the 7 pp and not once have I lost traction on the standard Bridgestones. The PP must have an awful lot to do with this as many others on here constantly slate the tyres.
Yes the diference between a non PP and a PP in terms of traction is night and day
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Great Review!, much better than my youtube video.. :grin: :grin:
But i agree in everyting!. :wink:
But brake traction from start , is not att problem in the PP.. :whistle:
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Good writeup Clarky, sounds like you love your new baby. One question though - how come you only had your previous GTI for such a short time?
BTW...
My colleagues here had Mk7 PP's and their BS traction issues were exactly the same as my Mk7 GTD.
I thought I remembered a technical writeup on here where someone proved that the E-diff made no difference to standing start wheel hop...
Their situation and mine was improved dramatically by replacing the OEM BS's with something else. However, it only really went away when one of them swapped to a Mk7 R... that definitely fixed it.
Its one of those things which sort of spoils the GTI - you have the power, you have the handling, but it really can't get the power down - even my modest GTD can spin up under somewhat less than balls out road racing driving - not even from standing I might add! You do kinda get used to it though, but its the one thing VW haven't managed to fix. Wonder if similar Audis or Skodas have the same issues?
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Hello clarky!
Thank you very much for this amazing post! Especially, because I personally am waiting for my PP 7.5 and I found myself in this situation and I didn't find, anywhere, anyone to share their experience.
I am very happy to know that it is a really good car and that it fulfills what I need, a car for the day to day, fast and efficient when I need it.
Thank you very much for taking the time to explain your experiences and share them with other colleagues! Greetings from Spain! :smiley:
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Very good write up and can agree with everything you said apart from the fact that I have the MK7 PP as opposed to the 7.5 so cannot comment on some points you made.
The LSD works very well indeed and just seems a lot more nimble and still continues to surprise me after 2 years of ownership. Better brakes and extra power make £1000 seem like a very good deal for a noticeable improvement to an already great car.
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Great write up. Really looking forward to my PP GTi arriving after reading that.
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Nice owners review :cool:
As for the VAQ diff - I have noticed what felt like oversteer a couple of times. The car squirmed - as the nose tucked into the bend. It felt very strange.
Since setting my the VAQ diff to 'sport' I have not had any more loud bangs under hard acceleration. There have been a few dull thuds though. :whistle:
I was in the garage getting my 10k oil/service. They had VW Driver Magazine for March. It had a full review of the GTI PP with a manual gear box. When they complained about the touch screen being a fingerprint magnet, I laughed out loud in agreement. :rolleyes:
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You should see the NavPro...
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Old thread but great write up... I now can't wait for June...! :grin:
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I still need to learn the gearbox as I feel that sport mode isn't suited for "town" driving as it hangs on to the gears a little too long, so you use the paddles to shift up....and then it shifts down anyways ?? In normal mode, it's pretty good but not perfect - I guess at the end of the day, it a computer and can't see what we do
We have our car in "eco" mode which is good for town driving and when in traffic generally. If you explicitly pick it from the menu then it'll also do the freewheel thing, which saves a bit of fuel. Then, when we want the car to be like a GTI just pull the DSG stick towards you and it sticks it in sport mode for more interesting driving conditions. We don't bother with the "normal" mode now.
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Few more observations now I have almost 3000 miles on the PP
Way better on fuel than the non PP. Getting 7mpg higher by my calculations on daily driving and I saw 49 mpg average on a 350 mile round trip over the bank holiday weekend all motorway and at 70 - 80 mph. Same fuel and same petrol station used as previous car.
Also, go figure this out. Better on fuel in normal mode than eco on daily driving. I dont use start stop.
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Way better on fuel than the non PP. Getting 7mpg higher by my calculations on daily driving and I saw 49 mpg average on a 350 mile round trip over the bank holiday weekend all motorway and at 70 - 80 mph.
Blimey, I think I've only seen over 40 mpg on a couple of occasions during 7k miles and that was driving like I had 11 points on my license (I actually have none) :sad:
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Way better on fuel than the non PP. Getting 7mpg higher by my calculations on daily driving and I saw 49 mpg average on a 350 mile round trip over the bank holiday weekend all motorway and at 70 - 80 mph.
Blimey, I think I've only seen over 40 mpg on a couple of occasions during 7k miles and that was driving like I had 11 points on my license (I actually have none) :sad:
That's almost certainly due to terrain, temperature and speed... could also be tyres coming into play (different rolling resistance, widths, pressure) or load in the vehicle (passengers, crap etc). Filling your SD cards with heavy metal doesn't make any difference though :-P
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Way better on fuel than the non PP. Getting 7mpg higher by my calculations on daily driving and I saw 49 mpg average on a 350 mile round trip over the bank holiday weekend all motorway and at 70 - 80 mph.
Blimey, I think I've only seen over 40 mpg on a couple of occasions during 7k miles and that was driving like I had 11 points on my license (I actually have none) :sad:
Yup I was shocked but in a good way. 2 adults 2 big bags and minimal air con. Was about 24 degrees that definately must help
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Also don't forget the 7.5 PP has the 7 speed DSG gearbox, not the older 6 speed (like my new non PP GTI has). This I guess has to go someway to explaining the better MPG ?
Actually would be really interesting to know (if anyone does please tell), what the gear ratio / final drive in the 6 speed vs 7 speed DSG in so far as MPH/1000 rpm ?
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Whats the CO2 and published MPG figure between the GTIPP mk7 and the GTIPP Mk7.5? If those have improved (particularly the CO2 figure as its less prone to buggery from VW) then yes the DSG7 is a better beast.
I've still not seen anyone say what RPM in 6th (Mk7)or 7th (Mk7.5) gear 70MPH is... that would also be quite telling.
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GTI 230 PS Non PP - 6 speed DSG - 148 g/km (5 door) - 145 g/km (3 door)
GTI 245 PS PP -7 speed DSG - 144 g/km (no distinction made if it's 3 door or 5 door)
Figures from the latest downloaded Golf Brochure.
From what I've just read on line, it seems the 6 speed GTI does approx 2650 rpm at 70 mph and the 7 speed about 2100 rpm at 70 mph (not verified though)
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GTI 230 PS Non PP - 6 speed DSG - 148 g/km (5 door) - 145 g/km (3 door)
GTI 245 PS PP -7 speed DSG - 144 g/km (no distinction made if it's 3 door or 5 door)
Figures from the latest downloaded Golf Brochure.
From what I've just read on line, it seems the 6 speed GTI does approx 2650 rpm at 70 mph and the 7 speed about 2100 rpm at 70 mph (not verified though)
The 6 speed is around 2000 - 2100 at 70mph in 6th :smiley: I believe the 7 speed is around 1800 at 70mph.
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at what RPM does the turbo come in?
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clarky - very good review and good to hear from someone who has driven both. My one concern re the PP (and I appreciate I will be in the minority here...) is that I don't really want a noisy exhaust. Is there much difference between the PP and non-PP, externally and in the cabin? Does the exhaust note apply to Sport mode only or all the time? thanks
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clarky - very good review and good to hear from someone who has driven both. My one concern re the PP (and I appreciate I will be in the minority here...) is that I don't really want a noisy exhaust. Is there much difference between the PP and non-PP, externally and in the cabin? Does the exhaust note apply to Sport mode only or all the time? thanks
Exhaust is fine dont worry about it. Its not really that loud, you wont look like a chav at a set of lights. Its only really throaty when in sport mode and foot flat, most of it is played through the speakera so only cabin noise, which can be adjusted through settings.
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In fact the PP is for you if you dont wont as much noise as DSG7 wont produce the farts on upshift whereas the DSG6 on non PP will.
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Thanks clarky - don't really want to be waking the (elderly) neighbours at 6am every morning :) From what I've read about the 7DSG 'box, it seems very impressive and more economical than the man (I would miss the golf ball gear shift ...)
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I start mine at 6am for work now and its fine, can be a tad loud for 10 seconds or so but nothing crazy. Its not like an aftermarket exhausy loud
I was meant to update this top about mpg but completely fogot if I did or not.
The DSG7 is far more economical. Tip (use nornal mode not eco)
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Great review.
Glad I've ordered a DSG PP :cool: