GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk7 => Topic started by: Yusee on 10 February 2020, 20:25
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Can anyone offer advice on an occasional problem I have with selecting reverse gear. In particular if anyone is aware of this being a known problem and whether I ought to ask VW to investigate.
Over the last few weeks I occasionally have difficulty selecting reverse gear. It only ever happens first thing in the morning, particularly on cold days.
My morning routine involves reversing out of the garage, then declutching and selecting neutral while I wait for my daughter to jump in the passenger seat. Curiously, the problem never occurs when I first select reverse to pull out of the garage. It happens when I select reverse again while on the driveway. There is a slight downward slope away from my garage.
On a few occasions, I can eventually select reverse by engaging first, then declutching and with a bit of persuasion can select reverse. This morning, it was more severe- reverse wouldn't engage, I put the clutch in, found first, declutched, tried again-it would not go into reverse at all. In the end I just rolled backwards off the drive.
The box works beautifully in all other gears and at all other times.
Would appreciate any thoughts.
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Perhaps the cables need adjusting? If it's still under warranty just book it in.
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Thanks. It is under warranty. Would they charge a diagnostic fee if they can’t find a fault?
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Not sure. My manual can be a little difficult when really cold, is it okay when warm? Google it if you haven't, you aren't alone and there is all sorts of advice out there :smiley:
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it's absolutely fine when warm. in fact, it's fine the minute I pull onto the road. Very odd, the way it only does it on the driveway, when cold.
all sorts of suggestions online- from clutch problems to linkage issues, to some saying it's pretty normal and you find a way round it.
the main decision I need to make is whether to book in. I may just wait and see, I don't get the impression it's a big problem
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I’d say it’s just the combination of cold, linkage, slight slope etc. As it’s literally only then I probably wouldn’t worry too much. Could check the linkage to make sure it’s ok but unless it starts doing it a lot more of the time no matter the circumstances then definitely get it booked in.
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Thanks for the reply raj, that's reassuring. Unless I hear from a load of forum members telling me there's a known issue with this box, I think I'll just keep an eye on it.
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Stop guessing and get it looked at before it gets worse and while it’s still under warranty
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My idea was to wait until it gets worse so the dealer doesn’t give me short shrift- but yes, I take your point, I should use the warranty.
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Stop guessing and get it looked at before it gets worse and while it’s still under warranty
Totally agree, but the only issue will most likely be that they can’t recreate the issue as it appears to be only on a very specific set of circumstances while coming out of his garage/off the driveway. All other times it’s no issue.
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Stop guessing and get it looked at before it gets worse and while it’s still under warranty
Totally agree, but the only issue will most likely be that they can’t recreate the issue as it appears to be only on a very specific set of circumstances while coming out of his garage/off the driveway. All other times it’s no issue.
But by making them aware of a problem makes claiming any warranty work further down the line if they can’t sort it easier
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Meant to reply yesterday but didn’t get chance.
The dealers will have a set process they have to follow in order to make a warranty claim.
They’ll certainly need the car overnight to replicate cold start gearbox selection issues.
My suggestion is taking a few videos of you starting the car, pushing in the clutch and attempting gear selection over a few days then show this to the workshop when booking the car in. Ideally emailed to them as hard evidence. Their tech might not be able to jump in and replicate it on day one but it’ll show that there’s a genuine fault rather than keys being handed back and “sorry, no fault found”, they’ll just have to persevere with fault finding. Hopefully a simple fix (cables).
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Thanks Exonian. Very helpful suggestion-Will do just that
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it's absolutely fine when warm. in fact, it's fine the minute I pull onto the road. Very odd, the way it only does it on the driveway, when cold.
all sorts of suggestions online- from clutch problems to linkage issues, to some saying it's pretty normal and you find a way round it.
the main decision I need to make is whether to book in. I may just wait and see, I don't get the impression it's a big problem
Get it booked in and until it's sorted if you only have issue getting reverse off your drive very first thing in the morning, what about leaving it in reverse over night.... ok it's not a cure but it's a work around until it gets looked at!! :whistle:
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Hello. I have a suggestion that might be worth trying. It's not a complete fix but might work like it did for me on my last car. Whenever I started the car from cold and went straight into reverse gear to get off the drive it would almost always make a grinding noise. All I did was go into first gear and then into reverse (without releasing the clutch pedal between) and it never did it then.
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Hello. I have a suggestion that might be worth trying. It's not a complete fix but might work like it did for me on my last car. Whenever I started the car from cold and went straight into reverse gear to get off the drive it would almost always make a grinding noise. All I did was go into first gear and then into reverse (without releasing the clutch pedal between) and it never did it then.
Thanks, that normally works for me. Only once did reverse not go in. the car has nearly 2 yrs warranty to run so I must get it booked in when I get chance
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So the car went in to have this looked at yesterday evening.
The problem has been a little worse- on 3 or 4 occasions I have been totally unable to select reverse ( and now first) gears. On 1 occasion, I videoed it as suggested by Exonian.
Only ever occurs first thing in morning, particularly on a cold day. Absolutely no problems otherwise.
Certainly no clutch slipping.
When I took it in yesterday evening, I showed the master technician the video, and explained the issue.
He seemed pretty disinterested, though that may be my perception.
Just had a call back from the dealer. Pretty unsatisfactory really
He says the only thing the master technician can find is that the clutch is heavy. He says the clutch is worn. And the service chap tells me this wouldn't be covered under warranty- it would only cover a clutch for 6 months.
I said I don't accept that the clutch is worn. Why does the problem only occur on cold start? He couldn't answer that.
I've never once needed to replace a clutch on any car I've ever owned- 26 years- and many went into high mileage.
I certainly won't accept that the clutch has worn through misuse.
He suggested I could seek a second opinion from another VW dealer
I think the master technician's findings are nonsense. I suspect he couldn't find a fault, so made something up, knowing that I was expecting something to be found.
I'm off to collect the car now. Would appreciate thoughts on how best to proceed.
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As you say, not very satisfying. Only thing I would say is that when my PP went in for a service I had a 1.5 Golf and the clutch felt feather light compared with mine so I suspect yours is normal.
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Thanks Watts. Just collected the car. I asked to speak to the technician. I particularly wanted to know if he could replicate the problem- he couldn't. The report says " clutch heavy and requires new complete clutch assembly"- for which they are quoting me £1066.
Well the clutch doesn't feel heavy at all to me- in fact it feels light.
I said I didn't agree, and that if it was the clutch, I'd expect this to be done under warranty.
I'm a little stuck really. It's certainly not a major problem and is not affecting my enjoyment of the car.
But if it is a faulty component I would insist this is replaced under warranty.
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When I had my EPC fault, I posted some information in the thread that may help you here...
On the drive the technician told me that now the car is back for a 3rd time they are allowed to have "free rein" on diagnosing issues. On all 1st and 2nd investigations, they have set test plans for every problem which they have to follow in order to satisfy VW warranty conditions, so they are just following a book rather than being technicians.
This means if they get part way through a test-plan and they get the 'all clear' from the systems, they stop, regardless if they think there might be a further fault. That's the instructions from VW to all dealers, not their choosing. He said they would now keep the car for longer and use their rolling road etc to diagnose, trouble shoot to find the root cause.
Knowing what I now know, I'd guess that in your case they got part way through the fault finding process and have now stopped.
My advice, push to see the inspection logs. The dealer bills VW for all warranty inspection/work, so it's in your interest. :)
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Many, many years ago, I had a Peugeot 450 SRI that would not go into first gear when it was cold. I had to start of in second gear, but after only a few yards, I could stop and easily select first gear.
This was fixed by changing the oil in the gearbox for a different grade. It's no good asking which oil, because it was the best part of 30 years ago. :grin:
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When I had my EPC fault, I posted some information in the thread that may help you here...
On the drive the technician told me that now the car is back for a 3rd time they are allowed to have "free rein" on diagnosing issues. On all 1st and 2nd investigations, they have set test plans for every problem which they have to follow in order to satisfy VW warranty conditions, so they are just following a book rather than being technicians.
This means if they get part way through a test-plan and they get the 'all clear' from the systems, they stop, regardless if they think there might be a further fault. That's the instructions from VW to all dealers, not their choosing. He said they would now keep the car for longer and use their rolling road etc to diagnose, trouble shoot to find the root cause.
Knowing what I now know, I'd guess that in your case they got part way through the fault finding process and have now stopped.
My advice, push to see the inspection logs. The dealer bills VW for all warranty inspection/work, so it's in your interest. :)
Thanks KMP. Useful to understand the process.
In my case the technician has identified what he believes to be a fault ( though he couldn't replicate the fault I reported). The problem is I believe his explanation is horse sh1t, will lead to unnecessary work, and will not cure the problem. They're also saying I'd have to pay for it. Well I'm not accepting that.
I could ask to see the inspection logs, but it will only confirm he hasn't done anything useful.
I may have to write to head office.
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Many, many years ago, I had a Peugeot 450 SRI that would not go into first gear when it was cold. I had to start of in second gear, but after only a few yards, I could stop and easily select first gear.
This was fixed by changing the oil in the gearbox for a different grade. It's no good asking which oil, because it was the best part of 30 years ago. :grin:
I had read on a search that gearbox oil can cause this issue ( I think it was a VW up forum/thread).
I'd be interested to hear if anyone has had similar issues
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An update, if anyone interested or can offer technical advice-
despite my initial scepticism, I do wonder if the technician is right- the clutch does feel a little heavy. I'm really not sure how this would account for the problem I have- cold start reverse and first gear selection- and neither is the technician.
VW warranty conditions covers clutches for 6 months or 6,500 miles. I have emailed customer services insisting they properly investigate and rectify the problem- and if the clutch is faulty they must replace at no cost to me.
A car driven normally should not have a clutch fail at around 8k, whatever the warranty terms.
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The joys of a manual :grin:
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Haha, yeah- those TCRs at the dealer were looking a little more tempting!
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Haha, yeah- those TCRs at the dealer were looking a little more tempting!
They might have the same issues :evil:
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An update, if anyone interested or can offer technical advice-
despite my initial scepticism, I do wonder if the technician is right- the clutch does feel a little heavy. I'm really not sure how this would account for the problem I have- cold start reverse and first gear selection- and neither is the technician.
VW warranty conditions covers clutches for 6 months or 6,500 miles. I have emailed customer services insisting they properly investigate and rectify the problem- and if the clutch is faulty they must replace at no cost to me.
A car driven normally should not have a clutch fail at around 8k, whatever the warranty terms.
I have my doubts too, perhaps a fellow manual owner in your area could let you try theirs to compare pedals? Mine was occasionally notchy getting into first when cold but never impossible. Sounds to me that they are guessing as it sounds very unlikely the clutch has been examined.
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An update, if anyone interested or can offer technical advice-
despite my initial scepticism, I do wonder if the technician is right- the clutch does feel a little heavy. I'm really not sure how this would account for the problem I have- cold start reverse and first gear selection- and neither is the technician.
VW warranty conditions covers clutches for 6 months or 6,500 miles. I have emailed customer services insisting they properly investigate and rectify the problem- and if the clutch is faulty they must replace at no cost to me.
A car driven normally should not have a clutch fail at around 8k, whatever the warranty terms.
If they open up your transmission and all they find is a worn clutch then they'll bill you. If they open it up and find a clutch contaminated with oil/grease or mechanical fault like a dodgy spring set up then they'll pay.
My R's gearbox was iffy changing on occasion, it felt gritty 1st>2nd, 2nd>3rd, and reluctant to slot in 3rd from 6th. Couldn't get dealerships to entertain investigative work because it was so infrequent. Clutch slipped on coldest few days of the year with 23k miles on clock. Again, no investigative warranty work forthcoming, not even a linkage adjustment. If your car isn't making a funny noise and is drive able, they'll send you off with a flea in your ear - welcome to VW customer service.
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When I had my EPC fault, I posted some information in the thread that may help you here...
On the drive the technician told me that now the car is back for a 3rd time they are allowed to have "free rein" on diagnosing issues. On all 1st and 2nd investigations, they have set test plans for every problem which they have to follow in order to satisfy VW warranty conditions, so they are just following a book rather than being technicians.
This means if they get part way through a test-plan and they get the 'all clear' from the systems, they stop, regardless if they think there might be a further fault. That's the instructions from VW to all dealers, not their choosing. He said they would now keep the car for longer and use their rolling road etc to diagnose, trouble shoot to find the root cause.
Knowing what I now know, I'd guess that in your case they got part way through the fault finding process and have now stopped.
My advice, push to see the inspection logs. The dealer bills VW for all warranty inspection/work, so it's in your interest. :)
Thanks KMP. Useful to understand the process.
In my case the technician has identified what he believes to be a fault ( though he couldn't replicate the fault I reported). The problem is I believe his explanation is horse sh1t, will lead to unnecessary work, and will not cure the problem. They're also saying I'd have to pay for it. Well I'm not accepting that.
I could ask to see the inspection logs, but it will only confirm he hasn't done anything useful.
I may have to write to head office.
That's my point, I prob didn't explain myself very well. The technician hasn't identified the fault, the fixed plan has. If at any point in the plan they discover a fault, they stop. If there are further faults down the line they won't be found and/or investigated until the first fault is fixed.
If the plan says "replace the clutch assembly", then that will be done, and only then will any further fault be found/investigated.
:)
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Thanks all for your useful and interesting comments.
@Watts, I'm sure he hasn't examined the clutch. In fact I think all he has done is try the gears from cold, and pushed the clutch in a few times. It may be my imagination, but since he has raised this possibility, I do feel the clutch is slightly heavier than when I first bought the car ( the technician suggested I have not noticed the problem as I may have become used to it over time).
@KMP- thanks. Yes, so the fixed plan has identified a (possible) fault, which may be incidental, and essentially he stops there. The complication in this case is that under the terms of the warranty they won't pay for it, nor are they saying it will fix the problem I'm asking them to fix. I don't mind them replacing parts unnecessarily, so long as they pay for it. I have written to them insisting they investigate and rectify the gear selection problem..
@monkeyhanger. Thanks for the heads up- I appreciate I may have a battle. My argument is that it must be a manufacturing defect if it has failed at 8k. I can give details of 2 Peugeots, 2 Alfas, 1 fiat and 1 BMW all driven to high mileage on the original clutch. I'm actually pretty confident that when they investigate, they will find a defect- I cannot understand why the clutch would have worn.
Let's see how they respond. It's actually one of the reasons I don't buy warranties. You own the car, you break it you fix it. Far less hassle than this kind of battle!
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So to update- I've just had a response from VW to say they won't offer any support towards the clutch plate and assembly as it is considered a wear and tear item and "with this particular issue we are not able to determine whether it was caused by user error and we have no recalls relating to this issue"
I'm pretty angry about this. Firstly, the technician who investigated was pretty uncertain as to whether it would solve the cold start gear selection problem. Secondly, I will not accept that a clutch , in a car that has been driven well ( which I know mine has) should fail at around 10k miles.
I'm inclined to get the clutch replaced then take them to court to recover my costs. There doesn't seem to be any acknowledgment of the possibility of a manufacturing defect.
Any advice appreciated.
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So to update- I've just had a response from VW to say they won't offer any support towards the clutch plate and assembly as it is considered a wear and tear item and "with this particular issue we are not able to determine whether it was caused by user error and we have no recalls relating to this issue"
I'm pretty angry about this. Firstly, the technician who investigated was pretty uncertain as to whether it would solve the cold start gear selection problem. Secondly, I will not accept that a clutch , in a car that has been driven well ( which I know mine has) should fail at around 10k miles.
I'm inclined to get the clutch replaced then take them to court to recover my costs. There doesn't seem to be any acknowledgment of the possibility of a manufacturing defect.
Any advice appreciated.
You need to find the cause of your problem first as said a clutch might not sort the issue I’m not surprised Vw are trying to say it’s not there fault but the fact the technician couldn’t say for sure that’s your problem then I think they should investigate more try Vw uk complaints
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Thanks, Barry. Yes, effectively they are refusing to properly investigate. I have logged a complaint on the customer service line and am expecting a call back.
I think my options will be-
1. get the work done under protest and take them to court to get my costs back ( I cannot believe all they will find is a worn clutch)
2. get it independently investigated and send them the bill
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I'm sure if you complain and keep complaining they will have no option but to investigate further
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👍 thanks for the support
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It sounds like the dealers reluctance to do anything else is because they are not confident that they would be able to recover their costs if VW refuse that it is a valid warranty claim and refuse to cover any of the cost. It’s a fair amount of labour time to get to the clutch and the last thing they need is a car in pieces taking up revenue space in the workshop with no one willing to pick up the cost of putting it back together again. It’s a difficult situation for you but worth politely persevering with the facts as you see them on VW’s social media pages and keep your fingers crossed 🤞
After all no big company that prides themselves on “great customer care” will like their dirty washing aired in public !!
Good Luck :smiley: :smiley:
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It sounds like the dealers reluctance to do anything else is because they are not confident that they would be able to recover their costs if VW refuse that it is a valid warranty claim and refuse to cover any of the cost. It’s a fair amount of labour time to get to the clutch and the last thing they need is a car in pieces taking up revenue space in the workshop with no one willing to pick up the cost of putting it back together again. It’s a difficult situation for you but worth politely persevering with the facts as you see them on VW’s social media pages and keep your fingers crossed 🤞
After all no big company that prides themselves on “great customer care” will like their dirty washing aired in public !!
Good Luck :smiley: :smiley:
90 minutes isn't a great deal of time at all and if the op has spent good money on the car he deserves better than a technician admitting he's none the wiser to the actual problem and there reluctance to investigate
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@JB GTI- I’ve just had an interesting message exchange with my brother who has advised me pretty much what you’ve said. He’s used social media to very quickly sort out his last few consumer issues, after getting stonewalled through conventional complaints channels. Thanks for the advice.
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I've tried the social media route with VW before got me nowhere, they just advise you to get in touch with your local dealership. I wrote in reply that the dealership were fobbing me off because VW UK wouldn't authorise work. The dealership confirmed build fault but used a "6 month adjustment period" technicality for my tailgate contacting the rear bumper due to the catch being set too far back. Lucky for me the damage was negligible (a few tiny paint chips on the inner edge of the tailgate) and I had the know-how to adjust the tailgate strike plate myself.
VW UK customer service is truly abysmal and the decision makers are never available on the phone to justify their decision. The Customer service reps are just outsourced call centre lackeys facing pissed off customers.
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So the story continues... (if anyone interested!)
I emailed customer services and threatened to get the issue investigated and resolved independently -at their expense. They soon responded accepting "possible mis-diagnosis" and suggesting booking into another dealer for a second opinion.
So I arranged for VW Worcester to investigate- I must say this dealership seems a much better run outfit than the 3 others I have had dealings with. Service manager took interest and gave me confidence they'd investigate properly. They score well on google reviews, which shows that, at the very least, they give a sh1t.
The master tech didn't feel there's any issue with the clutch- he thought the pedal feel was fine, bite point was good, no slip on road testing and no oil underneath the transmission on inspection.
Gear linkages checked and adjusted- he did feel they needed a fair degree of adjustment and was confident this would solve the problem.
They did cold test this morning and felt gears working ok.
I've had the car back. Reverse going in ok, but first now very reluctant to go in!
I'm taking it back to them next week, when hopefully the problem will be resolved.
I'm pretty confident now that there isn't a clutch issue, and that some fine tuning of the linkages will sort it out.
( and obviously happy that I haven't had to needlessly shell out £1000 - or £1700 if flywheel replaced too).
Incidentally an interesting discrepancy in brake pads checks between the first and second garages - 40/50% and 10% respectively!
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The brakes are them just trying to get your money when clearly they don’t need done and that’s at least some good news you’re finally getting it sorted at there expense :smiley:
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Top marks for perseverance :smiley: Glad it's finally getting sorted and now you have a decent dealer to turn to for servicing.
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Thanks both. Yeah, I'm pretty happy it's getting resolved. And yes, I've found a good dealer.
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if dealers aren't bleeding your brakes, they're bleeding you for brakes.
My R had 90% worn brakes from 6 months old until 46 months old when I got rid...according to the dealers. I've previously been told that my brake wear is very low vs mileage for previous cars as I read the road ahead well and don't brake as much as others.
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Glad you are getting it sorted this kind of sums main dealers up.
When my Gti went in for a service (as part of the pack I got with the car via Das Velt) the video they sent me, Im sure you have all had these, included a look around the car, everything ok, blar blar blar then the interesting bit- the tyres are on approx 7mm wear all round and it may be something you will want to think about shortly.
The tyres in question were 1 week old Pilot sports and had done probably less than 50 miles. What interested me about this was if you knew nothing about cars or were elderly and a bit confused and you then said to them on the service desk- do I need to do something about the tyres, would they be honest and say no they are fine or would they try and gouge you for a set?
I have always wondered about this because it just seemed such a strange remark to drop into the video?
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The master tech didn't feel there's any issue with the clutch- he thought the pedal feel was fine, bite point was good, no slip on road testing and no oil underneath the transmission on inspection.
Gear linkages checked and adjusted- he did feel they needed a fair degree of adjustment and was confident this would solve the problem.
They did cold test this morning and felt gears working ok.
I've had the car back. Reverse going in ok, but first now very reluctant to go in!
I'm taking it back to them next week, when hopefully the problem will be resolved.
I'm pretty confident now that there isn't a clutch issue, and that some fine tuning of the linkages will sort it out.
VAG switched from all metal to plastic for the gearshift mech at both ends of the gear linkages....The mech under the gearstick boot has too much slop in it & there is a useless yellow plastic pivot pin, which breaks down over time....Best is to fit the Dieselgeek "Superpin"..unfortunately you have to remove the whole centre console to get at it....whilst you have it off, also fit the Dieselgeek "Delrin shaft bushes"..
Then if you want fit better bushes & convert to all metal relay & side lever plates on the mech which sits on top of the gearbox...But the biggest & best is the superpin...I had done all the others & still had problems..the superpin solved the rest!
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I've only ever used main dealers while a car is in warranty. There's no incentive for them to offer good service.
@golfdave. The problem I had was very minor, certainly not worth extensive work to remove the centre console. In fact since I've got the car back it's far worse- first gear is virtually impossible to engage without first selecting reverse then keeping the clutch in. At least I'm sure of the cause of the problem, and that it's a warranty job.
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Glad you are getting it sorted this kind of sums main dealers up.
When my Gti went in for a service (as part of the pack I got with the car via Das Velt) the video they sent me, Im sure you have all had these, included a look around the car, everything ok, blar blar blar then the interesting bit- the tyres are on approx 7mm wear all round and it may be something you will want to think about shortly.
The tyres in question were 1 week old Pilot sports and had done probably less than 50 miles. What interested me about this was if you knew nothing about cars or were elderly and a bit confused and you then said to them on the service desk- do I need to do something about the tyres, would they be honest and say no they are fine or would they try and gouge you for a set?
I have always wondered about this because it just seemed such a strange remark to drop into the video?
Not a chance they would take your money and then give your car a courtesy wash with a dirty brush :grin:
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@golfdave. The problem I had was very minor, certainly not worth extensive work to remove the centre console. In fact since I've got the car back it's far worse- first gear is virtually impossible to engage without first selecting reverse then keeping the clutch in. At least I'm sure of the cause of the problem, and that it's a warranty job.
If they have ruled clutch out as cause of problems then I bet its the linkage...
To get accurate alignment of the gear selector cables you need to 100% lock in "netural" both mech at end of the cables...as they swapped from metal parts to plastic parts for cheapness it is virtually impossible to get near 80% accuracy...so you always has mis-alignment & mainly in reverse as the "hook" under the gear stick can't hit the lock out ramp properly & slips off...so you sometimes hit 1st instead!
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@golfdave. The problem I had was very minor, certainly not worth extensive work to remove the centre console. In fact since I've got the car back it's far worse- first gear is virtually impossible to engage without first selecting reverse then keeping the clutch in. At least I'm sure of the cause of the problem, and that it's a warranty job.
If they have ruled clutch out as cause of problems then I bet its the linkage...
To get accurate alignment of the gear selector cables you need to 100% lock in "netural" both mech at end of the cables...as they swapped from metal parts to plastic parts for cheapness it is virtually impossible to get near 80% accuracy...so you always has mis-alignment & mainly in reverse as the "hook" under the gear stick can't hit the lock out ramp properly & slips off...so you sometimes hit 1st instead!
They've actually made in worse, in that it hardly bothered me to have some difficulty getting reverse when cold. Now first is near impossible and even second is not quite as smooth as it was. I'd be happy if they just put it back the way it was!