GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk3 => Topic started by: Khare on 13 January 2010, 17:22
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I read the articles in the mk3 maintenance section bout supercharging an 8v, but there are so may different views on it and so many options that I want to narrow it down. So far I've read G60 block with pistons cranks and other bits, G60 loom and ECU, also read head gasket spacer and MS ECU to lower CR, also skimming the pistons, also G60 block with 10v Audi turbo pistons and a couple others I don't remember.
Looking at maybe supercharging the 8v in the near future when money is available, the superchargers I've narrowed it down to are the Eaton M45 and the M62. Looked on eBay and the M45 goes for around £200-£300 usually, however I heard the M45 doesn't provide enough boost for the top of the rev range for a 2l engine, is that true?
Looking at keeping the standard pistons, rods and crank and also gearbox, basically chucking a charger on there, lowering the CR with a head gasket spacer or stacking head gaskets and away I go. Can that be done safely if running low boost of 5psi or so? Looking to hit 170hp, but 200 would be lovely :smiley:
All input appreciated :cool:
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M62 is the better bet, M45 is more suited to 1.6 and below.
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will be interested in this too,
im like you, i want the 8v engine to stay and be fairly evil :D
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What do the M62's go for on eBay? Can't find one on there atm.
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look for merc chargers as the m62 is off their kommpressor range, ive looked into this quite abit too+ am planning something similar, may be able to get away with m45 if ure just running low boost, there are boost maps on the eaton site but havnt decoded what they actually mean yet.
i think ppl have done what you say with success but im planning MS managment to get the best outta it+ so i can evolve the management with the engine as i make changes+ i dont have to pay anyone
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Well I will be running low boost if I stick with the standard internals, which I will be hence why I recon the M45 is enough. The standard ECU doesn't recognize boost so either G60 ECU and loom or mega squirt.
Danny_p is MS master so I know he will help me :smiley:
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Danny_p is MS master so I know he will help me :smiley:
Know or hope? :grin:
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Danny_p is MS master so I know he will help me :smiley:
Know or hope? :grin:
hope, but he owes me a favor :laugh: :tongue:
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does anyone know if the standard 8v ECU copes with a charger? or does it need MS or G60 ECU for sure?
I think what I might do is pick up a cheap 8v engine on the bay, strip it and start from there. Refurb all the internals, some ARP bolts for little bit more strength, new seals and gaskets all round, open up the cyl head a tad more, possibly new piston rings and then maybe lightened fly. All in the air at the moment but it does get me excited mind you!
Anyone know what cam is best for running boost? Guessing the 285 cam I have at the moment won't be of any use.
Also, the 020 gearbox on the 8v's, do they cope with power around 200?
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I think the g60 cam would be a good start :wink:
Go and have a look on clubgti, lots of info
edit: actually, lots of info for 16v, not sure about 8v :lipsrsealed:
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I think the g60 cam would be a good start :wink:
Go and have a look on clubgti, lots of info
Will do dude, cheers! :smiley:
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Ok from what I read the M45 is Ok for up to about 10 psi, hard to get anything more out of it, some people are running 12 though. However, I'm looking at running about 5psi or so, as anything over 7.5psi is bad on stock internals. Can't find that much info on club gti apart from what I've posted here already. Also read that a crossflow head is a good option. Opinions? I know DH has one on his track toy and he will be dropping an ABF in there soon, he said the head would be up for sale then and if I was interested he would make a deal with me :smiley: However if the cross flow head requires lots of hassle to make it work with the charger then I won't bother.
So far it seems like if I buy an M45 charger and megasquirt ECU I could fabricate my own brackets and tensioner and run a low boost set up. Doesn't sound too bad or too expensive tbh....Well under a grand and it's possible.
Thoughts on intercoolers? G60 set up or FMIC needed or will running no intercooler be ok with only 5psi?
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Whetever happens your going to need to drop you c/r with a spacer plate and the standard ecu will be no good, you need a standalone set to cope with adjustments as required when it comes on boost.
Worth a read for the basics: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supercharger
Edit, I have got my wires crossed, looks like a M45 will do it: http://www.thefang.co.uk/eaton.htm
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http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=101392.0
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does anyone know if the standard 8v ECU copes with a charger? or does it need MS or G60 ECU for sure?
I can probably provide you with maps for the oem ecu that will work, but ideally you want a map sensor in the equation. 3d mapping ftw!
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Dropping CR is a must I know, forgot to put that in my summary.
Megasquirt is my best bet as Danny is a master at using it and he can help me get it set up and tuned properly. Where can MS be bought and how much does it cost? eBay?
I had a read of the supercharging thread in the maintenance section :smiley:
does anyone know if the standard 8v ECU copes with a charger? or does it need MS or G60 ECU for sure?
I can probably provide you with maps for the oem ecu that will work, but ideally you want a map sensor in the equation. 3d mapping ftw!
So it can work with the standard ECU, but it will obviously be better with MS right?
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your insurance company are going to love you :grin:
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well you can still scale the fuel and ignition to rpm and there's a certain amount you can get from a maf, which is passable for a supercharger as it's belt driven so is more linear than a turbo but if you can work it to pressure aswell you can take a few more "chances" for a better drive and more power.
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your insurance company are going to love you :grin:
indeed :grin:
well you can still scale the fuel and ignition to rpm and there's a certain amount you can get from a maf, which is passable for a supercharger as it's belt driven so is more linear than a turbo but if you can work it to pressure aswell you can take a few more "chances" for a better drive and more power.
I see, so with a custom map in the standard ECU it will work and produce decent power, but not as much as it could. Better investing in MS then.
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you won the lottery khare > ?
or you pimping ya ar$e out ? :laugh:
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I wish :laugh: Nah, just planning stuff out and making dreams come true :grin:
I'll be working full time after the summer, so will be raking in the money....hopefully :smiley: :smiley:
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Where can MS be bought and how much does it cost? eBay?
There is a guy in the uk selling kits on ebay, but in the last month they have gone up a fair few quid. You're now looking at just over £200 delivered for MS1 v3 and over £250 for MS2, whereas from the States it's approx £140 for MS1 and £175 for MS2. That's delivered but plus taxes.
I swear they were around £130 on ebay.co.uk just before xmas. Really wish i'd bought one back then, but then i'd have even less money now :cry:
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Where can MS be bought and how much does it cost? eBay?
There is a guy in the uk selling kits on ebay, but in the last month they have gone up a fair few quid. You're now looking at just over £200 delivered for MS1 v3 and over £250 for MS2, whereas from the States it's approx £140 for MS1 and £175 for MS2. That's delivered but plus taxes.
I swear they were around £130 on ebay.co.uk just before xmas. Really wish i'd bought one back then, but then i'd have even less money now :cry:
Whats the different between MS1 V3 and MS2? Guessing MS2 is more tunable and has more features.
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Just google megasquirt and you will find more information than you will ever be bothered to read :wink:
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Will do Mew, cheers mate :smiley: :smiley: :smiley: :smiley:
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you could buy a corrado g60 with the money needed for all those parts!
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Isnt the m45 the same one they use on the bmw cooper s? These were going for as little as £45 new a couple of years ago when people were having the 'works' kit fitted.
adaptorman said he built a supercharged 8valve using a merc charger, might be worth asking him if you are struggling, I'm sure he posted some info on his build thread the other day about some MS wizard that he had met
I full on want a supercharger under my bonnet, contemplating sourcing a rado G60 and ripping it to bits but if this method is going to work out cheaper I might be stealing your idea :smiley: .
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you could buy a corrado g60 with the money needed for all those parts!
But then I'd end up with a corrado and not a golf! :grin:
+ it's not THAT expensive. £300 for charger, £250 for MS, and add about £500 on random bits and bobs is just over a grand...for a grand you get a crap example of a genuine G60.
As long as I can fabricate my own brackets and other bits it shouldn't cost much above a grand.Isnt the m45 the same one they use on the bmw cooper s? These were going for as little as £45 new a couple of years ago when people were having the 'works' kit fitted.
adaptorman said he built a supercharged 8valve using a merc charger, might be worth asking him if you are struggling, I'm sure he posted some info on his build thread the other day about some MS wizard that he had met
Yeah the M45 is from the cooper S, on ebay they are anything between £250 and £300 as far as I see, only 2 on tehre at the moment however. I'll chat to adaptorman at some point, after all he can probably build a supercharger using nothing more than a can of beans and a pencil sharpener :laugh:
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Isnt the m45 the same one they use on the bmw cooper s? These were going for as little as £45 new a couple of years ago when people were having the 'works' kit fitted.
adaptorman said he built a supercharged 8valve using a merc charger, might be worth asking him if you are struggling, I'm sure he posted some info on his build thread the other day about some MS wizard that he had met
I full on want a supercharger under my bonnet, contemplating sourcing a rado G60 and ripping it to bits but if this method is going to work out cheaper I might be stealing your idea :smiley: .
M45 is the one from a Mini cooper s also used on the clk230K I believe, should not say this but G60 is old tech now and things have moved on.
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But then I'd end up with a corrado and not a mk3 golf! :grin:
everyones a winner :grin:
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you could buy a corrado g60 with the money needed for all those parts!
But then I'd end up with a corrado and not a golf! :grin:
+ it's not THAT expensive. £300 for charger, £250 for MS, and add about £500 on random bits and bobs is just over a grand...for a grand you get a crap example of a genuine G60.
As long as I can fabricate my own brackets and other bits it shouldn't cost much above a grand.Isnt the m45 the same one they use on the bmw cooper s? These were going for as little as £45 new a couple of years ago when people were having the 'works' kit fitted.
adaptorman said he built a supercharged 8valve using a merc charger, might be worth asking him if you are struggling, I'm sure he posted some info on his build thread the other day about some MS wizard that he had met
Yeah the M45 is from the cooper S, on ebay they are anything between £250 and £300 as far as I see, only 2 on tehre at the moment however. I'll chat to adaptorman at some point, after all he can probably build a supercharger using nothing more than a can of beans and a pencil sharpener :laugh:
With respect you will end up spending over £1k easy by the time you have made brackets etc.
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you could buy a corrado g60 with the money needed for all those parts!
:grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: was waiting for the obvious to be stated :laugh:
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I'll chat to adaptorman at some point, after all he can probably build a supercharger using nothing more than a can of beans and a pencil sharpener :laugh:
que A-team music :grin:
this sounds awsome Khare, will be watching this one with interest :cool: goodluck
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OK so from reading on the MS page I need MS2 as it controls fuel and spark :smiley:
Cost wise Wayne I said £1k as a base but of course you always spend more. But as you say, G60 is now old technology and they bring more problems than the new, more efficient units.
Cheers mumbles :smiley: :smiley:
I still gotta give my to-be insurance company a call and find out how much it's gonna cost to insure it :grin:
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by then your urge for jap will have returned ( again ) :evil:
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by then your urge for jap will have returned ( again ) :evil:
:grin: :grin: :grin: Most likely :laugh:
Seriously though, Sunday did make me love the old girl again and gave me ideas for plans :smiley:
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by then your urge for jap will have returned ( again ) :evil:
:grin: :grin: :grin: Most likely :laugh:
Seriously though, Sunday did make me love the old girl again and gave me ideas for plans :smiley:
Wallet emptying ones at that. :smiley: good luck with it.
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Indeed. Who said cars were cheap though? :grin: :smiley:
No one answered my question by the way. Does the 020 box cope with around 200 horses?
Liking the new sig wayne :laugh:
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Indeed. Who said cars were cheap though? :grin: :smiley:
No one answered my question by the way. Does the 020 box cope with around 200 horses?
Liking the new sig wayne :laugh:
Thanks
It should be ok, torque might be the bigger issue.
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What's the limit on the 020?
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What's the limit on the 020?
Not sure :undecided:
Also might be worth thinking about your clutch as well.
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Need to find out then, cos if it isn't then I don't know what my options are...Don't fancy a 16v box dues to the hydraulic conversion, pain in the arse.
Clutch will most likely need doing correct, sachs replacement is about £80 from AVS car parts, comes with the complete fitting kit, not a bad price tbh.
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Need to find out then, cos if it isn't then I don't know what my options are...Don't fancy a 16v box dues to the hydraulic conversion, pain in the arse.
Clutch will most likely need doing correct, sachs replacement is about £80 from AVS car parts, comes with the complete fitting kit, not a bad price tbh.
If your looking to turn the boost up in the future might be worth looking at an uprated one.
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true, however the standard sachs replacement is pretty strong and for £80 it is a good deal. I'll have to see the budget and time wise.
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true, however the standard sachs replacement is pretty strong and for £80 it is a good deal. I'll have to see the budget and time wise.
It will be fine unless you get silly.
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fingers crossed :smiley:
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Khare, you really have got a bee in your bonnet :grin:
Can you not buy bolt on charger kits for the 8v, similar to the vr6?
The vr can take up to 300bhp without mods(apparently).
Would the 8v not take any boost without lowering the CR?
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This will allow you to archive soething with the 8V which is an accomplishment. :wink:
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save your cash and put it into a better engine....
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Dont you have to raise the cr on a vr6 with a bolt on kit?
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Khare, you really have got a bee in your bonnet :grin:
Can you not buy bolt on charger kits for the 8v, similar to the vr6?
The vr can take up to 300bhp without mods(apparently).
Would the 8v not take any boost without lowering the CR?
http://www.bahnbrenner.com/vw_audi/products/2510/SR3_3150_Lysholm_Supercharger (http://www.bahnbrenner.com/vw_audi/products/2510/SR3_3150_Lysholm_Supercharger)
BBM have that but it is pretty pricey mind you.
save your cash and put it into a better engine....
Wise and true point, but then again what is the fun of buying a fast car and making it even faster? Wise? yeah, but making a slow car fast is fun and a good laugh. Let's be honest, not many supercharged 8v's about in the UK at the moment although it might catch on in years to come.
Dont you have to raise the cr on a vr6 with a bolt on kit?
I believe the VR6 has a pretty high CR, think it needs to be lowered from what I've read.
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Dont you have to raise the cr on a vr6 with a bolt on kit?
No lower it with a spacer plate.
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Would be worthwhile having a search in the mk3 and forced induction sections over on VW Vortex. Way more supercharged 8vs over there compared to the UK. Plenty of information and build threads to go through.
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x flow engines tho over the pond aint it? diff ball game so i believe. could be wrong like
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqRqwY9rLWw
Just to wet your appetite Khare!
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What's the limit on the 020?
020's don't like much above 170bhp but what kills them is big low-end torque - weaknesses are the second gear synchro and diff rivets. It would be very sensible to upgrade to an 02A.
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Can get a cross flow head of a mk4 8v.
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yeah guess you could off the 2.0l 8v
dunno much about it, as i aint ever wanted to do it personally
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Crossflow was also used in the Beetle.
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Dont you have to raise the cr on a vr6 with a bolt on kit?
No lower it with a spacer plate.
Thats actually what I mean lol sorry, typo
Be pretty retarded to raise the cr with a turbo or charger lol
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Was talking to DH last night and the cable change gearbox is my the best upgrade, from the 16v seats.
He also said I should invest in wideband lambda as it would offer better tuning options, and use the crossflow head, which he has and will be for sale at some point in the future :smiley:
He said it's gonna cost more than a grand though...He said a grand is what I'll spend on the wiring alone, and then another grand will go towards the engine preparation and fabricating. I'm gonna buy an used 8v gti engine, strip it, clean it, rebuild it with ARP bolts and new seals and gaskets all over and then stick the cable change gearbox on it, that way the engine is ready to be put on the car as a whole rather than in bits. All that's left is fabricate brackets for charger and plug it into the MS loom. That MS loom will make engine transplants plug and play pretty much, so after the 8v charged unit I can stick a 1.8T or a 16vT in easy.
I think that is the best option, as I will have a strong engine and wiring that won't catch fire as he said :grin: Will be pricey though, but it will be done at some point :smiley: :smiley: :smiley:
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So all in all you could up knocking a hole in nearly £3k is it worth it.
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So all in all you could up knocking a hole in nearly £3k is it worth it.
hmmm.....that is the big question, is it worth it? As I say I was looking to spend about 1 grand, basically bolting on a charger and running low boost, a starter project and a base. With time upgrade the bottom end for a forged counterpart and the head to a fully loaded spec.
As DH said though, do I want an engine that will blow after 1000 miles or wiring that will catch fire? I have to seriously think about what I do, find out how much psi I need to run to keep the stock internals and see what my options are.
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your looking at 2 corrado g60's for the money now :grin:
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your looking at 2 corrado g60's for the money now :grin:
Indeed for £3K you could get a G60 lump, the loom, the ECU, get it chipped and pullied for that!
nick
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you could do the MS at greatly reduced prices if you DIY it but you have to be a bit competant with electronics, all the info is open source so you can get all the circuit diagrams+ just buy the componants separately.
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£1500 :undecided: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/AUDI-A3-VW-GOLF-1-8T-20V-ENGINE-CONVERSION-AGU-CODE-70K_W0QQitemZ260498146715QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM?hash=item3ca6e6459b
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As you all know i have been in the process of building up the charged 8v lump for the last 2yrs through time. .
I would like to highlight a few points here.
1.Lets start with the M45/M62 charger... The M45 charger is good up to 10psi but then the compressor map becomes unstable due to the charge temps, i know of people who are running 45's with 16psi and aquamist to lower charge temps. The m62 obviously is a bigger compressor unit and thus will be able to provide more power..
2.X-Flow heads. If you are going to run the x-flow head then you might run into issues with the space at the front of the bay. The standard head polished and ported with a decent cam will provide plenty of flow for what you require. I have spoken to a few people on this point and they say that the standard head has quite poor flow but with a bit of work is suitable for FI applications.
3.Management. If you are going to be mapping this yourself then i would suggest you get megasquirt simply because of the amount of people who have worked on it. The standard management even with a MAP sensor provides issues with mapping as Badger5 found when he mapped an charged 8v on ClubGTI.
4. Compression. I spoke to the person who provided my brackets about this issue and found that you can run quite easily on standard compression at 5psi (standard charger pulley on m45) as long as its mapped correctly. As soon as you start looking to go over this and run smaller pulleys then stacked gaskets are the way forward. To the point of spacers and arp bolts etc.. I honestly wouldn't bother. Toyotec on CGTi has a 16vt running stacked gaskets on the original bolts and has had no issues with them at all..
5. Brackets. Do you have a/c. I do on mine and the bracket is the simpliest thing in the world to have made up. I dropped mine off to a mate and he made them for me and it runs true with no issues for mounting...I can bolt my charger on in about 5 mins.
6.Fuelling. Standard fuel pump is fine, injectors will need uprating. I have gone for g60 injectors and had them bench tested. Theres people out there running 440's but that as discussed on CGTi is overkill.
7. Wideband. Is a must in my mind just so you can keep an eye on what the car is doing incase you have any issues with fuelling... Can be picked up quite cheaply..
8. Cooling. At 5psi you wont need much cooling, as soon as you start to get over this you might come across a few issues. I have a small charge cooler at the moment as it limits the pipework i require.
9. Setup.. As per the diagram below, i suggest you relocate the tb to in front of the charger and run a recirc. This will allow you the best throttle in terms of drivability and not snappy as some people have confirmed when ran in the typical setup.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v206/dicky_morris/untitled-1.jpg)
10. Headache... Enjoy it..
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What type of recirculating valve do you suggest using+ for cams look @ welsh's thread, minimal overlap is required
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I have managed to get hold of the inlet pipe for the charger as its an oval shape, this contains the recirc valve that recircs from between the charger and tb back to the outlet of the charger..
I honestly couldnt quote the best recirc to use, maybe get hold of a forge that you can change the spring in and work through the various spring grades to suit your application.
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way too much money
20vt money that mate,and prob as much if not more work to get it going ?
plus the 20vt is alot more tunable right ?
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way too much money
20vt money that mate,and prob as much if not more work to get it going ?
plus the 20vt is alot more tunable right ?
+1 correct, would be my choice.
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that pic is funny in your sig :grin:
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like all things kells, the cost varies on how far you want to take it and how much you want to pay someone else..
I have put price lists up before and this can be achieved easily for under a k.
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i hear you buddie
but i wouldnt wanna do things on the cheep, probably end up haveing to spend again down the line but its each to their own
:cool:
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way too much money
20vt money that mate,and prob as much if not more work to get it going ?
plus the 20vt is alot more tunable right ?
+1 correct, would be my choice.
Na i have to disagree....everyone and his dog are getting 20v conversions.....boring :tongue:
Stick with supercharging the 8v, dare to be different.
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wow bored welsh lad, awesome info there! As you can tell by the thread I'm looking at spending under a grand by running low boost. For under a grand I could do this and that is the whole aim of the project, lots of ponies for under a grand. I'll speak to DH and see what he thinks, he did recommend using wideband, so I'll talk to him bout this and also to Danny, see what he thinks. Either way I'm gonna buy a complete engine on eBay and stick new seals and gaskets on it and port and polish the head. I'll stack headgaskets to relief pressure on the engine. I was thinking of sticking some ARP bolts on that engine anyway.
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way too much money
20vt money that mate,and prob as much if not more work to get it going ?
plus the 20vt is alot more tunable right ?
+1 correct, would be my choice.
Na i have to disagree....everyone and his dog are getting 20v conversions.....boring :tongue:
Stick with supercharging the 8v, dare to be different.
With respect being different is one thing but to spend £2k to £3k when a 1.8T is going to be cheaper and with the right mods will give a bigger gain to me makes sense.
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way too much money
20vt money that mate,and prob as much if not more work to get it going ?
plus the 20vt is alot more tunable right ?
+1 correct, would be my choice.
Na i have to disagree....everyone and his dog are getting 20v conversions.....boring :tongue:
Stick with supercharging the 8v, dare to be different.
With respect being different is one thing but to spend £2k to £3k when a 1.8T is going to be cheaper and with the right mods will give a bigger gain to me makes sense.
to be fair if i was spending 2 or 3 grand then yeah i'd 20vT it or VR6 t, but I'm only looking to spend 1 grand tops.
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honestly i would just get a 07 plate 1.25 fiesta :lipsrsealed: :lipsrsealed:
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honestly i would just get a 07 plate 1.25 fiesta :lipsrsealed: :lipsrsealed:
well you go and do that then...
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But if you want to supercharge an 8v gti, buy mine and do it ;)
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wow bored welsh lad, awesome info there! As you can tell by the thread I'm looking at spending under a grand by running low boost. For under a grand I could do this and that is the whole aim of the project, lots of ponies for under a grand. I'll speak to DH and see what he thinks, he did recommend using wideband, so I'll talk to him bout this and also to Danny, see what he thinks. Either way I'm gonna buy a complete engine on eBay and stick new seals and gaskets on it and port and polish the head. I'll stack headgaskets to relief pressure on the engine. I was thinking of sticking some ARP bolts on that engine anyway.
Right i will lay out what i think you can get for under a k if you shop around...
1.Charger M45 100-150
2.Management 2-300
3.Brackets 30-50 if you make them yourself
4.Belt 10-15 quid
5.injectors 50 quid (i picked up standard g60 injectors)
6.wideband 170 quid (new on ebay with guage(i got mine for 100 second hand)
7.Pipework 80 quid (can get second hand cheap)
8.Recirc 50 quid (load of the forge ones float about on forums)
Just another point worth noting.. the head seems to choke up at around 5000rpm and if you run a boost gauge you will see 10psi but thats the backpressure due to the head not being able to flow the boost.
I am hoping to see around 170 horse with the setup above.. if i do head towards a smaller pulley i will be running 2 gaskets and max of 10 psi..
below is the compressor map
(http://www.eaton.com/ecm/groups/public/@pub/@eaton/@per/documents/content/ct_128483.gif)
and if you dont know how to read them, then check out this article..
Bimmer guide (http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=258035)
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nice one dude. So you are saying that with 2 HG's I can run on 10psi with stock internals? I'm sticking some ARP bolts in there however.
What gearbox will you be running? DH recommended the cable change off a seat toledo 16v.
When you say pipework, do you mean that runs from charer to manifold and to TB?
What about intercooler? 5/6 psi is not enough to need one is it?
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nice one dude. So you are saying that with 2 HG's I can run on 10psi with stock internals? I'm sticking some ARP bolts in there however.
What gearbox will you be running? DH recommended the cable change off a seat toledo 16v.
When you say pipework, do you mean that runs from charer to manifold and to TB?
What about intercooler? 5/6 psi is not enough to need one is it?
Toyotec is running 2 head gaskets on his valver turbo with no issues running the original head bolts from the car.. he says they handle the power no problem and the rumours about stacking gaskets is bullsh!t.. he said to check to see if g60 gaskets are the same as the 8v ones as they are steel lined...
pipework i mean from the tb to the charger inlet, the charger outlet to.. (intercooler) intercooler to inlet manifold...
with regards the intercooler, i have tried to limit the pipework so have run 2 1/4 pipework from the outlet into a charge cooler and then into the inlet manifold.. hope this helps
btw.. if your looking to get 10psi off a smaller pulley i would invest in headwork.. your best bet in the man in the shed on Cgti.
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This is only what I've read over the years and admittedly I've not seen any proof, but apparently the mk2 8v head flows better than the mk3 head. How about looking into the use of a mk2 head inc inlet manifold and 4 branch exhaust?
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This is only what I've read over the years and admittedly I've not seen any proof, but apparently the mk2 8v head flows better than the mk3 head. How about looking into the use of a mk2 head inc inlet manifold and 4 branch exhaust?
Interesting. I'll try and find some proof or do further research on it. The 1.8 head has smaller valves though, would that affect performance at all?
And yes I think G60 gaskets are steel lined, I'll look into them.
What intercoolers are available?
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The 1.8 head has the same size valves AFAIK.
Nick
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The 1.8 head has the same size valves AFAIK.
Nick
Ah ok, I'll look into it then :smiley:
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for dealing with the CR
1) leave it standard but fit aquamist 50/50 water methanol mix, keep the water part injectted to about 25 % the volume of petrol injected at any given point
2) ABA pistons cheep but finding a gd 2nd hand set is a pita as they have to come from the states.
3) 2 headgaskets MLS ABF ones each extra gasket is about 1 compression point
4) g60 block comeplete
ECU . with ms you want ms2 thats where the development is happenign the cup is fater and can do more. also the maos are bigger ( unless you runign extra code ) then there about the same.
intercooler. that woudl be from a sprinter van
charger.
M45 woudl praobly be just ok on an 8 valve but pritty pointless on a 16v you need some high pully ratios meaning charger will make lots of noise heat generaly be inefficent and wear out. M62 is better even if it's just doing the same job but the revs will be lower meang less noise more efficency and longer life
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don't spend money on headwork, not worth it with boost you'll just notice your boost pressure drop a bit it's cheeper just to make the charger blow harder
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Cheers danny! I'll talk to you in detail about it on msn at some pint in the evening sometime :smiley:
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i'm in lymington later :)
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oooo were about? Just passing through?
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whats better about the aba pistons? + cheers for starting an interesting thread khare really gets the imagination going
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I think the ABA is the engine code for the mk4 2l 8v, correct me if I'm wrong.
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no its the US crossflow headed 2l 8v in mk3s just wondering why the pistons outta these are any better? but yeh its pretty similar to the mk4 one
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Ahh right I see. I'll try and find them, but what are the advantages of them?
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yeh thats what im wondering, as far as i knew they are pretty much identical engines apart from the heads bein crossflow
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the ABA had lower compression in standard form as most engines for usa market do.
std ABA compression ratio 9:1 iirc , you get the cr as useing 2 headgaskets on a european engine but keep the quish zone roun the edge of the cylinder whitch is a feature
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don't spend money on headwork, not worth it with boost you'll just notice your boost pressure drop a bit it's cheeper just to make the charger blow harder
Danny, i thought you were running a valver.. I was talking to nando about the 8v and he said the power that was quoted by alldubs 8v was not at 10psi on the standard pulley but 5psi with the head choking up at 5k and backfilling to 10psi.. Nando said the major limiting factors on the 8v is the flowrate of the exhaust manifold and head.. He said to flow decent boost it needs a decent head, making the charger flow more will only induce more heat surely?
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DH said I can get a ported and polished head from a tuning company, forgot the name now, for £250..I might invest into it.
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the ABA had lower compression in standard form as most engines for usa market do.
std ABA compression ratio 9:1 iirc , you get the cr as useing 2 headgaskets on a european engine but keep the quish zone roun the edge of the cylinder whitch is a feature
so the extra volume was gained through the piston+ not the combustion chamber in the head being larger?
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DH said I can get a ported and polished head from a tuning company, forgot the name now, for £250..I might invest into it.
was that not the man in the shed on cgti?
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the man in the shed's work look pretty good but do you know whether he uses any kind of flow bench to test his work or isit all by eye, if so in NA aplications it can do more bad than good, a charged engine should be fine though but would be better if all ports flowed equally or closa too for smoothness
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DH said I can get a ported and polished head from a tuning company, forgot the name now, for £250..I might invest into it.
was that not the man in the shed on cgti?
not it was a tuning company, JLE or something like that, can't remember.
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not it was a tuning company, JLE or something like that, can't remember.
I was looking into supercharging my 8v GTi too...although, I have now decided to save the cash and buy a VR6. You could spend upwards of £3000 on the 2.0 8v engine, and you'll still only end up with the same power as a bog standard VR6. Anyway...while I was doing a little research, I found this http://www.cncheads.co.uk/vw_golf_8v_bv.html (http://www.cncheads.co.uk/vw_golf_8v_bv.html). For £250 they take your head and machine it out to increase flow rates. I was thinking about doing this...and upgrading the cam & injectors at the same time... hope this helps...
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£250? you'll be lucky :grin:
i know the 16v heads are £750 +vat
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Talking of headwork.. if your serious about having work done it might be worthwhile having a read of this to see where the gains are to be had...
http://www.clubgti.com/forum/showthread.php?t=202798