HELP! Best speakers for a Mk3!!!

[i-espedair]

I am looking to upgrade the speakers in my Mk3 gti. I have a nice new Sony head unit and the standard speakers just arn't delivering enough oomph for my liking.

I am not looking to go down the route of amps, subs and wiring, although this is something i may consider in the future. For now i just want some decent replacement speakers.

I have got my eye on the current Sony range. I like the Sony brand, they are perfectly coloured in line with the rest of my car (red) and will match my head unit. I am happy with the layout of my current speakers (2 trebble in dash, 2 main in front doors, 2 main in rear sides, 2 tweaters in rear sides).

What i want above all else though is a good fit! Don't want to have to start carving up my car! The main units are 17cm and the dash trebble units are 10cm, i think.

Sony do the speakers in 16.5cm, 17cm, 9cm 10cm. What is best? and how do the dash speakers mount, currently they just seem to be pushed in not screwed!? Will my replacements fit the same? Also the tweater units seem speciffically built for the car. How well will replacements fit there!

As you can see tis all abit of a nightmare in my mind. Last thing i wanna do is spend a heap of cash only to find out i have to start chopping my car up!

Although i would prefer Sony speakers i am happy to have others if the fit perfect into the existing closures and work great.

Please help me guys. Let me know what setups you got in your Mk3's. I need help. Listening to my Barry Manilow CD just ain't the same at the moment!!!

[S11EPS]

Howdi,

Can I suggest you give the Kenwood range of Dual mags an audition? I can give you a few reasons!!

Firstly, getting technical for a minute, they use a neodymium magnet in place of the standard barium ferrite that most of the other manufacturers use - because it is many times stronger this allows them to use a smaller mass of magnet to do the same job, making the assembly lighter - less weight, more pace!

Secondly, they have a great range - custom fits, co-ax's, 6x9's components - I'm positive you'll find something that will suit.

Thirdly, as looks sound like they're a factor, with the aluminium looking cones and funky looking cross-overs, I think you'll like 'em.

Lastly, and most importantly, they sound great - I've had them in a number of cars (and heard them in plenty more) and I currently have a component set up front and in the back of my Mk4 GTi. Top end is crystal clear, with mid-range and mid-bass tight and focussed. I don't drop em that low, as I have sub/amp set up to handle the lows

Good luck, let me know how you get on!

PS - a lot of standard systems struggle when you drop a new head unit onto std speakers, mostly due to the fact that you are dropping 20watts rms through a speaker that was designed to work with 5. Filtering-out Sub bass (up to 100hz) will help no end, as this is what your speakers are really struggling to produce.

[stoat]

To be quite honest there is no point up grading you current speakers unless you are going to amp them up.  They may sound like they are distorting at high volumes but that infact is you amp in you head unit.

You are best to save you money and get an amp and speakers at the same time.

In my mk3 I have the standard speakers running off of the head unit and an amp running the sub, it will do for now, got the amps for the speakers but cant be bothered to get some speakers just yet.

[S11EPS]

Gotta disagree I'm afraid.

One of best, cleanest demo cars I've ever heard (taking price into account obviously) was kenwood's 'Heaven' Mk III golf GTi.

This ran a decent headunit, 4 replacement speakers (filtered so as not to handle any sub-bass) and a sub and amp set up. That's it. It was cheap, well balanced and easy to set up - it cost (relatively speaking) peanuts.

Standard speakers are garbage, full stop. Upgrading the head unit will only highlight just how poor they are, as our man here has done.

I'm not suggesting that an amplified system will not sound better than a non-amplified one, that would be stupid. But read the thread - the guy just wants to upgrade his standard speakers, and an aftermarket set from a quality manufacturer WILL make a difference for the better.

Incidentally, I'm sure you know that most top of the range headunits marketed by quality manufacturers (Alpine, Kenwood Pioneer etc) now have more RMS power than a lot of the cheap amplifiers that promise hundreds of watts per channel. They also do not require the additional expense and complication of extra wiring, and can be set up from the front of the car.

Amplifying full-range speakers can achieve a mixed bag of results, and is best left to those with lots of patience and a chunk of money to spend, as it then becomes a never ending spiral. Your weak link then becomes your sub-bass, as you do not have enough 'headroom' to give sufficient depth to the volume that your full range is capable of producing, and so on and so on.

I say go for the upgraded speakers, to be followed by sub, amp and filtering of your new full-range speakers. Will cost a few hundred quid and will sound the bo**ocks, considerably better than standard.

[stoat]

If he is planning to go down the root of a sub and amp then it is best to get them first because you can kill the bass in the standard speakers this will allow you to increase the volume in them, the reason for smaller speaker like the ones in the doors sound crap is because they are to small to handle bass, thats the whole point of a sub.  That is why the kenwood car sounded so good because there was no bass going through them.  I do not dissagree that the standard speakers are worse than upgraded speakers but to be running off of a standard head unit there is not that much difference.  His money is better off spent else where.

[S11EPS]

I know exactly what you mean, as when I have upgraded my own stereo's in the past, I have always added a sub and filtered the standard speakers (making them much more efficient), then replace the factory fit speakers.

But, the original post that started the thread asked for suggestions to replace standard fit speakers, and stated that at this time he did not intend to go down the route of subs/amps.

I agree that a sub working with replacement speakers will definitely be the way forward, but I don't agree with you when you say changing the speakers won't yield any benefit. He has already changed the head unit, and the chances are this is out-putting 40 watts per channel minimum.

Upgraded speakers will sound better handling this than the standard paper-coned garbage that are designed to handle 5 watts, fact. It may not be your ideal upgrade path, or mine, or many other peoples, but he wants an improved sound on what he has now, and he will achieve that if he changes the speakers.

This will improve further if (when?) he decides to add a sub and filter them out.

[stoat]

Fair point. I am in need of a new head unit and some front components and some rear speakers, I have the sub and four chanels availible to power the speakers but I am wondering what to get myself.

How did you get speaker wires into you front doors or did you use the existing wires?

[S11EPS]

If you four channel amp is capable of bridging two channels together (to give you a three channel amp in effect) then you have all you need to give a pretty awesome sound.

I would by a headunit with plenty of features on board and a reasonably healthy on-board amp (4x40 watts minium). I'd wire the single channel you create (by bridging channels 3 and four) to the sub (make sure in gets only below 120Hz) and wire channels one and two to your front left and front right speakers.

Any replacement speakers for the rear can be wired staright to the head unit.

If you wire it in this way you will need to replace your front door speaker wires as the source wiull be coming from your amp, not fro the head unit. Disconect the rubber boot the the central locking/electric window wires run in and feed through there (a dob of fairy liquid woirks wonders there!)

That will sound pretty awesome and won't bust the bank

[paladin]

I'll have to agree with those of you that have proposed the replacement of the speakers first in this case (so far), here's why..

Having the stock 'premium' stereo (not a half bad factory setup).  I attempeted to upgrade the system in steps, much like what I belive most of you are proposing, and what i-espedair problably intended.
We all want the most bang for the buck.

Following the advise I read on another (included below) forum I purchased a powered sub (JBL basspro) and wired it to the 'hot lines' for the rear speakers, and disconnected the rear speakers themselves (-btw this makes the fader a gain control for the sub), the next step is bass blocking capacitors to the front door speakers and disconnecting the dash speakers.)
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In a message dated 97-11-12 05:18:30 EST, John.NassarCOMPAQ writes:

<< I have spoken with the gentlemen at MB Quart and they recommend the coaxial speakers upfront, keeping the tweeter close to the the midbass driver mounted in the door... turn off the dash and the rear speakers...
 and run a sub or two... thats it... don't waste your money on their 3 way component system... there are much better speakers for the same money that kill the Quarts when you get over $500... Image Dynamics,
 Focal... to name a few... eliminate the rear speakers... rear fill went out with DuranDuran... and kill the tweeters in the dash, b/c imaging is horrible and your eyes/ears will thank you for it...  >>

The MB Quart Coax will not fit in the doors using the factory grills. Use the separates and mount the tweeters close to the woofer in the doors.

Jim

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... asides from the name dropping, he kinda makes a good case.

What I found out for myself however, is that the midbass capacity of the factory speakers are lacking.

Even with the bass and treble all the way down, the midbass takes a shot at around (5-13db @ 130HZ - 500 HZ), noticeable.. not right away, but definitely noticeable and in an important range (to me, at least). The soundstageing is great up front and imaging isn't horrible (even with the dash speakers connected)  Perhaps I can raise up the bass after I install the bass blockers (Blocking <135Hz to those speakers but raising the rest).  It's my next step.

Sorry for the long winded post, whatya think? So far I'm out of pocket $150 soon to be $165 w/out new speakers (or wiring)

One question though, with the rear speakers disconnected does the radio send all or most of the power (Orig 4x7 watt) to the front?

[AdamB]

One question though, with the rear speakers disconnected does the radio send all or most of the power (Orig 4x7 watt) to the front?

You will not get all the power through the fronts, only a maximum of 7watts. but if you alter the front/rear fade, you can get more relative volume for a lower volume setting on the stereo.
Personally I wouldn't do it. its designed to work with 4 speakers, so put all 4 on