GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk7 => Topic started by: dubber36 on 12 December 2017, 11:28
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On the news the other night, there was the obligatory shot of a car with it's wheels spinning in snow and not moving. In this case it was a 7.5 .:R. The shot was just of the front wheels and bumper, but it was unmistakably an .:R. Could it have been staged, or are they quite poor?
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It's R not .:R. :grin:
If you drive any car with summer tyres in snow it will be sh!t.
I've overtaken a number of 4x4s in the last few days with my GTD on winter tyres. Left an E63 AMG at the lights for good (and he was trying so miserably) in a laughable amount of snow (well if you're from continental Europe)..... all comes down to the tyres.
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Could have been an R Line spec :wink:
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I think it is because a number think the throttle is either on of off and do not realise there is an in between.
Case in point is there are a number who have traded theirs for M2s and are scared to drive them in the wet as they have not mastered the in between (ironic as its actually the better car in the wet)
Winters on the wagon and fine, sit there with the heated seats on waiting for the wheel spinners to come to a halt and reverse
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Could have been an R Line spec :wink:
I can tell the difference. :wink:
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If there’d been any snow lasted long enough to drive it in, I’d tell you, but the smattering we had on Sun was melted within an hour of falling.
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Mine has been great the last 2 days, today being the toughest test. I put in eco, and we've had a fair bit of snow here that is -8C hard as a rock and compacted. LIve in an ungritted village lane!!!!!! I have a steepish driveway that our other GTI just cannot handle. The R can have a little front wheel spin but not had all 4 give way yet. My first awd and love it, in the past I would never have done the trips of the last 2 days.
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Mine has been great the last 2 days, today being the toughest test. I put in eco, and we've had a fair bit of snow here that is -8C hard as a rock and compacted. LIve in an ungritted village lane!!!!!! I have a steepish driveway that our other GTI just cannot handle. The R can have a little front wheel spin but not had all 4 give way yet. My first awd and love it, in the past I would never have done the trips of the last 2 days.
Road has thawed in last hour, couldn't walk on it this morning
(http://i486.photobucket.com/albums/rr225/crackerboxpal/DSCF5259_zpsypdqdik9.jpg) (http://s486.photobucket.com/user/crackerboxpal/media/DSCF5259_zpsypdqdik9.jpg.html)
(http://i486.photobucket.com/albums/rr225/crackerboxpal/DSCF5263_zpsktyvznsp.jpg) (http://s486.photobucket.com/user/crackerboxpal/media/DSCF5263_zpsktyvznsp.jpg.html)
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Mine has been great the last 2 days, today being the toughest test. I put in eco, and we've had a fair bit of snow here that is -8C hard as a rock and compacted. LIve in an ungritted village lane!!!!!! I have a steepish driveway that our other GTI just cannot handle. The R can have a little front wheel spin but not had all 4 give way yet. My first awd and love it, in the past I would never have done the trips of the last 2 days.
Please be careful. One of the problems with 4WD is that it gives a false sense of security in slippy conditions.
Of course having 4 driven wheels will give better forward movement than 2WD. However, as said above, grip comes from your tyres. 4 wheel drive gives little extra help when cornering and no help when braking - for that you need better grip. If safety is your main priority, then winter tyres are by far the best option for these conditions.
My dad admits that his old Land Rover is crap in proper winter conditions. That's because he fits Cheapo ditch finder tyres. It's all about the tyres.
I would love to see what the VAQ diff and PS4 tyres would be like on snow. However, our A3 has 4 winter tyres so my car has not moved since the snow started. Why would I risk it when I don't have to!
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If you drive any car with summer tyres in snow it will be sh!t.
I've overtaken a number of 4x4s in the last few days with my GTD on winter tyres.
^^^this!
You see muppets in Landrovers etc getting stuck all over the place even because they only have summer road tyres. They get stuck in fields all the time too, not realising they need off road tyres if their chelsea tractor is going somewhere other than on the school run!
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If you drive any car with summer tyres in snow it will be sh!t.
I've overtaken a number of 4x4s in the last few days with my GTD on winter tyres.
^^^this!
You see muppets in Landrovers etc getting stuck all over the place even because they only have summer road tyres. They get stuck in fields all the time too, not realising they need off road tyres if their chelsea tractor is going somewhere other than on the school run!
Having lived up here for 23yrs & doing ski-ing & mountaineering you need winters.
However I see loads of central belt etc up for holidays etc near Aviemore....big bling 4x4's will chariot wheels struggling at 30mph on the roads....especially from Aviemore to the CML ski area.
I used to have an old Skoda Fabia with a full set of winters....drive past them at 50mph..... :grin:
Staring daggers ain't the half of it....you can see them swearing at their car wondering why the dash is lit up like a Christmas tree as they continually activate all the ASR, ESC programmes..."BUT its a 4x4 & how the feck has that crappy Skoda over taken us at that speed".... :angry:.
Doing the same in a fancy MK7 Golf Estate doesn't quite have the same impact....bit of a shame really... :huh:
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Mine has been great the last 2 days, today being the toughest test. I put in eco, and we've had a fair bit of snow here that is -8C hard as a rock and compacted. LIve in an ungritted village lane!!!!!! I have a steepish driveway that our other GTI just cannot handle. The R can have a little front wheel spin but not had all 4 give way yet. My first awd and love it, in the past I would never have done the trips of the last 2 days.
Road has thawed in last hour, couldn't walk on it this morning
(http://i486.photobucket.com/albums/rr225/crackerboxpal/DSCF5259_zpsypdqdik9.jpg) (http://s486.photobucket.com/user/crackerboxpal/media/DSCF5259_zpsypdqdik9.jpg.html)
(http://i486.photobucket.com/albums/rr225/crackerboxpal/DSCF5263_zpsktyvznsp.jpg) (http://s486.photobucket.com/user/crackerboxpal/media/DSCF5263_zpsktyvznsp.jpg.html)
Your car looks great in the top photo :drool:
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4WD only gets you moving. Winter tyres are what you need for braking/steering ablity in heavy conditions.
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4WD only gets you moving. Winter tyres are what you need for braking/steering ablity in heavy conditions.
Truth is I had winter tyres on spare set of a spare set of 17" cadiz, never used them ffs! Took up room. We Haven't had snow like this in 3 years! So while I'd agree anywhere with guaranteed severe weather winter tyres. Give me AWD in a Golf first and foremost for the other 364 days of a normal year, anyway.
BTW I recommend the R to anyone pondering, it still thrills me like that first date :drool:
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If you drive any car with summer tyres in snow it will be sh!t.
I've overtaken a number of 4x4s in the last few days with my GTD on winter tyres.
^^^this!
You see muppets in Landrovers etc getting stuck all over the place even because they only have summer road tyres. They get stuck in fields all the time too, not realising they need off road tyres if their chelsea tractor is going somewhere other than on the school run!
Having lived up here for 23yrs & doing ski-ing & mountaineering you need winters.
However I see loads of central belt etc up for holidays etc near Aviemore....big bling 4x4's will chariot wheels struggling at 30mph on the roads....especially from Aviemore to the CML ski area.
I used to have an old Skoda Fabia with a full set of winters....drive past them at 50mph..... :grin:
Staring daggers ain't the half of it....you can see them swearing at their car wondering why the dash is lit up like a Christmas tree as they continually activate all the ASR, ESC programmes..."BUT its a 4x4 & how the feck has that crappy Skoda over taken us at that speed".... :angry:.
Doing the same in a fancy MK7 Golf Estate doesn't quite have the same impact....bit of a shame really... :huh:
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Better with both I guess, but for sure if your into dangerous winter sports and terrain , the R with nice winters would be fantastic fun.
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It’s been years since it snowed to any notable extent in my corner of the south east. Of course, with winter tyres it’s not all about snow and ice, but in the last few years I’ve got through the winters on summer tyres (on 19s on grid and the R) with not a single issue. When it started snowing on Sunday I was looking forward to seeing how the R would be in the snow, though I agree that 4WD will get you going but not necessarily keep you going. Was all set to take it out when the snow was coming down.
(https://s2.postimg.org/mo8xloi55/067_D931_C-0_B8_D-4_F17-9411-9_F786_FE5_C0_D9.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/qxdnnuled/)
But unfortunately it was so short lived, by the time I was about to go out, it had all but melted (an hour later).
(https://s2.postimg.org/7cz4kyi7d/6_C8_A34_B7-433_A-4_E12-92_F1-_C0_D4_ED27_B7_C5.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/g7zyvh6zp/)
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I've got Pirelli Scorpion Zero 255-55-19s on my Amarok. They are not a winter tyre, but a bit more chunky than the tyres that come on X5s etc. We had about 8" of snow here and it's still hanging around. The truck has got absolutely everywhere with zero fuss. With a bit of provocation it will slide the rear a bit, but it's soon brought into line by the front end just like it never happened. Braking is all about finding grip in fresh snow, or the rough stuff at the side of the road, somthing I had to do on Friday when a mini went full sideways across the road in front of me.
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Better with both I guess, but for sure if your into dangerous winter sports and terrain , the R with nice winters would be fantastic fun.
When I was looking at geting my car in summer 2014 I knew about the R estate as saw the ring test pictures. Was going to hold off & get one.
Then I found out that it was DSG only (which I hate & yes I have driven several versions), then I found the even more restricted colour choice..Tungsten silver is N/A in R estate..& to top it all off to get the same spec for spec as a loaded GT (how I speced mine) would cost me £7K more so around the £36k mark....
Plus I hate the stupid four fake exhaust tips & the ring test car had just two, much better. So that's a job to sort right there.
I looked at costing a DSG to manual gearbox swap as can do wiring & coding easy (its my thing), but swapping a new DSG out & fitting a new costly manual or lightly used from a crashed car....insurance costs...even more £££...
I even looked at a crashed manual hatch R with undamaged powertrain & engine £6k....& swapping onto my estate...would still need new 4WD estate fuel tank from dealers...& a cheap run-around car whilst I did the swap....& again insurance.."any modifications to declare".....er 1.4lt 2wd to 2lt AWD swap... :grin:
So basically happy with my current choice....I'll be a manual guy until my left leg knackers, which it will do one day due to sciatica...
Anyway the car is on winters...Michelin Alpin A5 225/45R17 using TD ProRace "3", five spoke alloys...
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It's only on situations like Booth describes with fresh, shallow snow that an AWD or any car in that matter might have a chance without winter tires. On anything more serious like dirty roads with accumulated hard snow or ice the AWD offers no benefits at all, you'll realise it the moment you'll need to brake or take a steep corner. Grip, which is the requirement in these cases (and not traction) is not affected by how many wheels are driven but by how much all four wheels stick to the road. I see some (not necessarily in this forum) have a still hard time getting their head round that even though it's pretty simple.
The amount of proper 4WD (not mere Haldex) equipped cars I was seeing immobilised at the side of the road facing various directions every year during my 4 years living close to the French Alps is astonishing. Incidentally, like golfdave I was also in a MKII Fabia (a vRS), there might be something there :tongue:
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We received 2-3 inch of snow on Saturday and with the cold temps it’s hung around on the quite lanes and roads. The GTi & Merc are both wearing winter boots; we haven’t had any stress getting around, it’s really comical and interesting driving past all these soft roaders and such, struggling - especially when I’m driving my wife’s merc.
The only hassle is the other drivers tiptoeing around or crawling along, mind you I do worry when you get some dick driving really close behind you - I know I can stop pretty well, just not convinced they’ll be able to :undecided:
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The amount of proper 4WD (not mere Haldex) equipped cars I was seeing immobilised at the side of the road facing various directions every year during my 4 years living close to the French Alps is astonishing. Incidentally, like golfdave I was also in a MKII Fabia (a vRS), there might be something there :tongue:
I had from new a very early 2001 MK1 Elegance, before the vRS was built...sold it in 2015, & still going ok.
Oh & yes amazing the amount of people who forget the importance of those four black rubber circles that a car has...
don't care how fancy the electronics are, the 4wd systems is, how big the engine, your dick, your ego is....if it can't get grip because of the wrong tyres it ain't going anywhere.....simples...
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Better with both I guess, but for sure if your into dangerous winter sports and terrain , the R with nice winters would be fantastic fun.
When I was looking at geting my car in summer 2014 I knew about the R estate as saw the ring test pictures. Was going to hold off & get one.
Then I found out that it was DSG only (which I hate & yes I have driven several versions), then I found the even more restricted colour choice..Tungsten silver is N/A in R estate..& to top it all off to get the same spec for spec as a loaded GT (how I speced mine) would cost me £7K more so around the £36k mark....
Plus I hate the stupid four fake exhaust tips & the ring test car had just two, much better. So that's a job to sort right there.
I looked at costing a DSG to manual gearbox swap as can do wiring & coding easy (its my thing), but swapping a new DSG out & fitting a new costly manual or lightly used from a crashed car....insurance costs...even more £££...
I even looked at a crashed manual hatch R with undamaged powertrain & engine £6k....& swapping onto my estate...would still need new 4WD estate fuel tank from dealers...& a cheap run-around car whilst I did the swap....& again insurance.."any modifications to declare".....er 1.4lt 2wd to 2lt AWD swap... :grin:
So basically happy with my current choice....I'll be a manual guy until my left leg knackers, which it will do one day due to sciatica...
Anyway the car is on winters...Michelin Alpin A5 225/45R17 using TD ProRace "3", five spoke alloys...
If you get the FL R estate you get 4 real tips! Sadly no manual still but you do get the 7 speed DSG :undecided:
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If you get the FL R estate you get 4 real tips! Sadly no manual still but you do get the 7 speed DSG :undecided:
Still two too many in my book, it's not as if the car has a big V8 or V12......it's only a 4pot & inline...bloody marketing/fashion hype IMHO..
& still no Tungsten silver....so that's another £2K for a decent proper respray...
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Grip, which is the requirement in these cases (and not traction) is not affected by how many wheels are driven but by how much all four wheels stick to the road. I see... some still have a hard time getting their head round that even though it's pretty simple.
I'm also a member of an Audi forum. Some people over there just don't get it :rolleyes: Though this year they don't seem as bad, maybe that is because of this weather.
They usually revert to saying something like, "the best option is both." Referring to quattro and winter tyres.
Perhaps someone here can enlighten me, as I do not understand this: If I have winter tyres on my car, why exactly would I need 4WD?
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Isn't the ability of a 4WD system to be able to find a wheel that is gripping and use it to propel the vehicle out of a situation where the other wheels are bogged down?
Although I doubt if Quattro is actually that sort of 4WD system, unlike something like a true offroader.
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Grip, which is the requirement in these cases (and not traction) is not affected by how many wheels are driven but by how much all four wheels stick to the road. I see... some still have a hard time getting their head round that even though it's pretty simple.
I'm also a member of an Audi forum. Some people over there just don't get it :rolleyes: Though this year they don't seem as bad, maybe that is because of this weather.
They usually revert to saying something like, "the best option is both." Referring to quattro and winter tyres.
Perhaps someone here can enlighten me, as I do not understand this: If I have winter tyres on my car, why exactly would I need 4WD?
You obviously think winter tyres are some sort of fantastic thing that can cope with anything.
Friend of mine couldn't get up his road on Sunday or Monday in his A4 with winter tyres. He jumped into his wife's 80 Quattro with summer tyres, locked the diff drove up road.
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Isn't the ability of a 4WD system to be able to find a wheel that is gripping and use it to propel the vehicle out of a situation where the other wheels are bogged down?
Although I doubt if Quattro is actually that sort of 4WD system, unlike something like a true offroader.
'quattro' in models based on front wheel drive cars uses the Haldex system, whereas cars with longitudinal drivetrain layouts are more like offroaders with torsen differentials
https://www.carthrottle.com/post/wvmekv7/
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You obviously think winter tyres are some sort of fantastic thing that can cope with anything.
Friend of mine couldn't get up his road on Sunday or Monday in his A4 with winter tyres. He jumped into his wife's 80 Quattro with summer tyres, locked the diff drove up road.
What winter tyre was he using? Are you sure they were winter tyres and not all season? My old boss used to think his all season tyres were winter tyres. :rolleyes:
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You obviously think winter tyres are some sort of fantastic thing that can cope with anything.
Friend of mine couldn't get up his road on Sunday or Monday in his A4 with winter tyres. He jumped into his wife's 80 Quattro with summer tyres, locked the diff drove up road.
What winter tyre was he using? Are you sure they were winter tyres and not all season? My old boss used to think his all season tyres were winter tyres. :rolleyes:
Michelin alpine's
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This may give you an idea what an Audi S3 on summer tyres is like in the snow if driven in a jovial manner
https://youtu.be/xfGstJlr2uE
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This may give you an idea what an Audi S3 on summer tyres is like in the snow if driven in a jovial manner
https://youtu.be/xfGstJlr2uE
Yeah he lives near me, if he had of went down the road a bit he could of had some serious fun down at the Tesco car park.
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You obviously think winter tyres are some sort of fantastic thing that can cope with anything.
My last car was a GTD 170bhp FWD automatic. I always believed that was a bad combination for winter driving. So during the winter I fitted Goodyear Ultragrip 7 tyres on 16inch rims. The only time I struggled for traction was going up a really, really steep hill covered in black ice. A van was stuck half way up the hill and I had to go around it. The tyres spun a bit, but the car still made it past the van and up that hill!
From my experience - winter tyres are fantastic and I can not imagine anything they could not cope with.
No wait - those tyres were sh!t in warm weather, but that's what my summer tyres were for. Though the Continental WinterContact TS850 tyres on my wife's A3 are much better.
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This may give you an idea what an Audi S3 on summer tyres is like in the snow if driven in a jovial manner
https://youtu.be/xfGstJlr2uE
Well that answers my question about my PS4 tyres snow capability. He said he nearly slid into his own fence. :shocked:
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Michelin alpine's
Were they badly worn?
There are plenty of videos on youtube showing that winter tyres beats 4 wheel drive and summer tyres everytime.
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I'm also a member of an Audi forum. Some people over there just don't get it :rolleyes: Though this year they don't seem as bad, maybe that is because of this weather.
They usually revert to saying something like, "the best option is both." Referring to quattro and winter tyres.
Perhaps someone here can enlighten me, as I do not understand this: If I have winter tyres on my car, why exactly would I need 4WD?
You obviously think winter tyres are some sort of fantastic thing that can cope with anything.
Friend of mine couldn't get up his road on Sunday or Monday in his A4 with winter tyres. He jumped into his wife's 80 Quattro with summer tyres, locked the diff drove up road.
Winter tires are indeed a fantastic thing as they provide the needed extra grip under all phases of driving (set-off, corner, brake) on all 4 wheels on any car. AWD is just splitting the load (torque) on 4 wheels in an effort to reduce each wheel's spin but also reach a minimum enough grip to get you going but that's pretty much it. It offers minimal benefit in cornering and none in braking on a slippery surface as the last, most important factor which is the friction between road and tire is compromised with a summer tire. If you happen to be just inside that traction range, usually in the case of fresh shallow snow, then you might mistakenly think AWD is a winter tire alternative...
That been said, it's still easy (if you wish so) to provoke wheel-spin on any car even with winters on, 2WD or 4WD, no surprise there. It might seem so but a winter tire is not actual magic so it still has its grip limits. It's just that those limits are raised (compared to a summer tire) to make the car drive-able and safe, you still need to exercise caution when driving in bad conditions.
Your friend's story proves that he probably has little patience and a heavy foot (bad combo for winter), and certainly not any AWD superiority over winter tire compound, that would be insane even to be implied, especially in a car forum. Also, a snowy road might mean many different things from being able to move on summers with enough throttle modulation to even cars with winters sliding off. There are many variables that are over-looked when someone tells an interesting story about what he achieved in snow with summer tires.
Perhaps someone here can enlighten me, as I do not understand this: If I have winter tyres on my car, why exactly would I need 4WD?
Setting off at ice or driving up very steep uphills, you would get the benefit of some extra traction. If we are talking a combination of the worst conditions (super slippery surface and significant inclination) it might be just that extra bit of traction you need to get going. However if you are in such a situation that you do need that extra bit of traction, then you'd absolutely need winter tires already to turn and stop no matter what car you're into.
The bottom line here I think should be that AWD is a supplement to winter tires and not the other way round.
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I'm also a member of an Audi forum. Some people over there just don't get it :rolleyes: Though this year they don't seem as bad, maybe that is because of this weather.
They usually revert to saying something like, "the best option is both." Referring to quattro and winter tyres.
Perhaps someone here can enlighten me, as I do not understand this: If I have winter tyres on my car, why exactly would I need 4WD?
You obviously think winter tyres are some sort of fantastic thing that can cope with anything.
Friend of mine couldn't get up his road on Sunday or Monday in his A4 with winter tyres. He jumped into his wife's 80 Quattro with summer tyres, locked the diff drove up road.
Winter tires are indeed a fantastic thing as they provide the needed extra grip under all phases of driving (set-off, corner, brake) on all 4 wheels on any car. AWD is just splitting the load (torque) on 4 wheels in an effort to reduce each wheel's spin but also reach a minimum enough grip to get you going but that's pretty much it. It offers minimal benefit in cornering and none in braking on a slippery surface as the last, most important factor which is the friction between road and tire is compromised with a summer tire. If you happen to be just inside that traction range, usually in the case of fresh shallow snow, then you might mistakenly think AWD is a winter tire alternative...
That been said, it's still easy (if you wish so) to provoke wheel-spin on any car even with winters on, 2WD or 4WD, no surprise there. It might seem so but a winter tire is not actual magic so it still has its grip limits. It's just that those limits are raised (compared to a summer tire) to make the car drive-able and safe, you still need to exercise caution when driving in bad conditions.
Your friend's story proves that he probably has little patience and a heavy foot (bad combo for winter), and certainly not any AWD superiority over winter tire compound, that would be insane even to be implied, especially in a car forum. Also, a snowy road might mean many different things from being able to move on summers with enough throttle modulation to even cars with winters sliding off. There are many variables that are over-looked when someone tells an interesting story about what he achieved in snow with summer tires.
Perhaps someone here can enlighten me, as I do not understand this: If I have winter tyres on my car, why exactly would I need 4WD?
Setting off at ice or driving up very steep uphills, you would get the benefit of some extra traction. If we are talking a combination of the worst conditions (super slippery surface and significant inclination) it might be just that extra bit of traction you need to get going. However if you are in such a situation that you do need that extra bit of traction, then you'd absolutely need winter tires already to turn and stop no matter what car you're into.
The bottom line here I think should be that AWD is a supplement to winter tires and not the other way round.
Sorry AWD works ALL year round for 100% of owners, winter tyres for most of us maybe the odd day or two a year, factor in cost and storage and basically they are a luxury. Of course, winter tyres are a supplement mainly for 2WD and not required for most folks with AWD.
OP asked does R work in the snow, as in better than FWD answer is yes. DSG in E and soften the pedal box from sport, and ever so gentle on the long pedal (just like swiss Tony would treat a beautiful woman) :cool: We're not talking Kielder forest here! Or are we?
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Winters aren't just better in snow.
Mine I can pull off in just cold weather with no wheelspin at all on 205 winters when my 225 summers just spin and make traction control light up like a Christmas tree. :D
Would want to see the Michelin Alpin tyres that could not make it up a hill that you could get up with 4WD and summer tyres. Bet they were worn to significantly below 4mm or the driver was just as thick as Jeremy Clarkson. Went into a field yesterday (on purpose, well there once was a track) with my Michelin Alpin A4 on front and Nokian WR A4 on the back. No wheelspin and even up a small hill, on grassy field covered by 3-4 inches of snow.
Will take the Michelins off though as one has worn to less than 4mm (which unfortunately makes them illegal when I go over to Austria for Christmas/New Year) and replace with Nokians as well. I'll keep the better as a full size spare though.
When it comes to extra cost.... storage etc. If you use winters your summers get less use and last longer, storage ain't really that much of a problem, mine happily sit in my shed when I don't use them.
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Perhaps someone here can enlighten me, as I do not understand this: If I have winter tyres on my car, why exactly would I need 4WD?
Setting off at ice or driving up very steep uphills, you would get the benefit of some extra traction. If we are talking a combination of the worst conditions (super slippery surface and significant inclination) it might be just that extra bit of traction you need to get going. However if you are in such a situation that you do need that extra bit of traction, then you'd absolutely need winter tires already to turn and stop no matter what car you're into.
The bottom line here I think should be that AWD is a supplement to winter tires and not the other way round.
Thanks, that makes sense. Though, I never found a hill that my last FWD car could not climb with winter tyres on. Even in the middle of the mountains.
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Sorry AWD works ALL year round for 100% of owners, winter tyres for most of us maybe the odd day or two a year, factor in cost and storage and basically they are a luxury. Of course, winter tyres are a supplement mainly for 2WD and not required for most folks with AWD.
OP asked does R work in the snow, as in better than FWD answer is yes. DSG in E and soften the pedal box from sport, and ever so gentle on the long pedal (just like swiss Tony would treat a beautiful woman) :cool: We're not talking Kielder forest here! Or are we?
No it doesn't. You are confusing setting off on light fresh snow that you do indeed benefit from being AWD, with full driving (set-off, corner, brake) on slippery snowy/icey roads where AWD or throttle modulation plays no part by definition and no matter how much you love your car, and that's fine, it can't give it supernatural abilities. I can accept that not everyone studied or wants to read about and understand mechanical systems but don't provide wrong, and potentially dangerous advice on a public forum. The OP didn't specify what he means by snow so it would be unfair to define it as "the maximum amount that my R seems to be fine". Plenty of entertaining examples with over-confident AWD summer tire cars (a few S3 and R among them also) on YT if the scientific explanation is too heavy...
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On anything more serious like dirty roads with accumulated hard snow or ice the AWD offers no benefits at all, you'll realise it the moment you'll need to brake or take a steep corner. Grip, which is the requirement in these cases (and not traction) is not affected by how many wheels are driven but by how much all four wheels stick to the road. I see some (not necessarily in this forum) still have a hard time getting their head round that even though it's pretty simple.
... no, on this forum too!!!
PMSL :grin:
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Would want to see the Michelin Alpin tyres that could not make it up a hill that you could get up with 4WD and summer tyres. Bet they were worn to significantly below 4mm or the driver was just as thick as Jeremy Clarkson.
PMSL :grin:
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Sorry AWD works ALL year round for 100% of owners, winter tyres for most of us maybe the odd day or two a year, factor in cost and storage and basically they are a luxury. Of course, winter tyres are a supplement mainly for 2WD and not required for most folks with AWD.
If that's the case then why was I able in a 13yr old Skoda Fabia 1.4lt on Michelin Alpin A3 winter tyres to cruise past at 50mph, loads of Range Rovers & other assorted 4x4 SUVs etc all on summers struggling to do more than 25-30mph as their electronic systems & 4wd & AWD systems struggled to find grip on 60mph & 70mph roads in winter up here on numerous occasions??
I think you'll find that snipes for better grip on ice & more silica in the rubber to stop it hardening at low temps play a huge part in it...
If you think you are still 100% ok in your "R" on summers feel free to come up here & play on our roads in the snow & mainly ice......I'll have the RAC/AA on speed dial to dig you out of the scenery... :grin:
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Michelin alpine's
Were they badly worn?
There are plenty of videos on youtube showing that winter tyres beats 4 wheel drive and summer tyres everytime.
Bought new the beginning of November.
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winter tyres for most of us maybe the odd day or two a year, factor in cost and storage and basically they are a luxury.
They needn't cost anything at all. Yes there is the initial purchase price, but for the 3-4 months you'd have them fitted, you are not suffering accelerated wear, in fact no wear at all, on your 'summer' tyres. Fit them on a set of second hand wheels that you can sell and get your money back when you change your car and they make perfect financial sense.
They are not just for snow. The difference on cold, slimey, leaf mulch covered roads is very noticeable. They will also come into there own with the sludge that's left on the roads from whatever they add to the salt these days.
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Would want to see the Michelin Alpin tyres that could not make it up a hill that you could get up with 4WD and summer tyres. Bet they were worn to significantly below 4mm or the driver was just as thick as Jeremy Clarkson.
PMSL :grin:
Don't you think that considering it was the same person driving both cars that if he was(as you put it) as thick as Jeremy Clarkson how would he be able to drive the Audi 80 up the hill.
Ironic that you call Clarkson 'thick'
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Sorry AWD works ALL year round for 100% of owners, winter tyres for most of us maybe the odd day or two a year, factor in cost and storage and basically they are a luxury. Of course, winter tyres are a supplement mainly for 2WD and not required for most folks with AWD.
OP asked does R work in the snow, as in better than FWD answer is yes. DSG in E and soften the pedal box from sport, and ever so gentle on the long pedal (just like swiss Tony would treat a beautiful woman) :cool: We're not talking Kielder forest here! Or are we?
You do know that in Germany, where your car was manufactured, there is a legal requirement to fit winter tyres. There is no legal requirement to have 4WD.
A few years ago, I was in Munich with my wife for the Christmas markets. As it was -20C they don't even bother gritting the roads as it would freeze anyway. So the roads were all covered in ice. Yet there were lots of rear wheel drive BMWs and Mercedes cars driving about no problem. So there goes the myth that rear wheel drive is useless on snow and ice. The other myth is that 4WD is safer in the winter.
Now, I know you don't believe me. So google, "4 wheel drive myths".
I have yet to see any article or video that shows 4WD is safer than winter tyres. Surely there must be some evidence on the internet somewhere? (don't bother looking you won't find any)
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Sorry AWD works ALL year round for 100% of owners, winter tyres for most of us maybe the odd day or two a year, factor in cost and storage and basically they are a luxury. Of course, winter tyres are a supplement mainly for 2WD and not required for most folks with AWD.
OP asked does R work in the snow, as in better than FWD answer is yes. DSG in E and soften the pedal box from sport, and ever so gentle on the long pedal (just like swiss Tony would treat a beautiful woman) :cool: We're not talking Kielder forest here! Or are we?
You do know that in Germany, where your car was manufactured, there is a legal requirement to fit winter tyres. There is no legal requirement to have 4WD.
A few years ago, I was in Munich with my wife for the Christmas markets. As it was -20C they don't even bother gritting the roads as it would freeze anyway. So the roads were all covered in ice. Yet there were lots of rear wheel drive BMWs and Mercedes cars driving about no problem. So there goes the myth that rear wheel drive is useless on snow and ice. The other myth is that 4WD is safer in the winter.
Now, I know you don't believe me. So google, "4 wheel drive myths".
I have yet to see any article or video that shows 4WD is safer than winter tyres. Surely there must be some evidence on the internet somewhere? (don't bother looking you won't find any)
But you're never wrong, how could anyone ever doubt you :rolleyes:
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I ran winters on my old FWD A3 and never got stuck. They were a bit of a mix and match as I bought them 2nd hand but they were excellent from when the temps started dropping and in very wet / slushy conditions. When we had deep snow a few years ago I drove round everything from Disco’s to X5’s etc who were running summer tyres
Since owning the A6 this is the first time I’ve had a chance to play in the snow. Its running 19’s and Goodyear Assy 3’s and it hasn’t got stuck. The way it just gets you going is simply impressive :cool:
I’ll let you decide which one I’d pick when it comes to doing the important stuff like cornering and braking :wink:
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Don't you think that considering it was the same person driving both cars that if he was(as you put it) as thick as Jeremy Clarkson how would he be able to drive the Audi 80 up the hill.
Ironic that you call Clarkson 'thick'
Probably went too much on throttle on the FWD and having lower powered Audi with 4WD and more sensible right foot.
Clarkson is a little bit thick, as in shouting 'power' very loudly and putting his foot down heavy when a more gentle approach makes more sense (and results in movement and not just spinning wheels) :D
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Don't you think that considering it was the same person driving both cars that if he was(as you put it) as thick as Jeremy Clarkson how would he be able to drive the Audi 80 up the hill.
Ironic that you call Clarkson 'thick'
Probably went too much on throttle on the FWD and having lower powered Audi with 4WD and more sensible right foot.
Clarkson is a little bit thick, as in shouting 'power' very loudly and putting his foot down heavy when a more gentle approach makes more sense (and results in movement and not just spinning wheels) :D
Probably not as their Audi 80 is the V6 model with more power than their A4
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I'll just add a last word on the whole "Audi 80 on summers vs FWD on winters" story as it may be a bit funny but can't be used to draw conclusions at least not by anyone with a half-decent understanding/experience of driving on proper snow.
As I said earlier, it's perfectly possible to spin the wheels on a FWD with winters if you want to. It's even possible on a AWD with winters. There are several variables in that story that we don't know that could provide an explanation. What seems more probable to me is that the cars were parked on a very slippery surface. Setting off at an icy uphill can be quite tricky even with winters. At the French Alps, I was driving my FWD with winters fine through 1month's hardened accumulated snow, I was even going up and down 10% slopes without any issue ever but just once I parked it on a friend's slightly inclined yard at a time that half-melt snow was re-freezing. Leaving his place afterwards I wasn't able to get going without some pushing. Once going I did again everything without drama but I want to stress that setting off at the wrong combination of conditions can give you trouble even with winters and that is the only situation that AWD would give you some extra help. That does not prove AWD is preferred to winter tires when you have real snow on the road simply because setting off is one thing, but car control while moving is another with no help from AWD. I also have to add that unless your friend had just a very dirty parking area to start from and then everything was rather clean on the road, he should have never set off on a car with summer times if at the same time a car with winters was unable to start, corner or brake safely in the same conditions. This should be common knowledge.
As a bonus, have a look at the following video of testing an EVO and an STI with summers and then with winters:
https://youtu.be/uHKjXfbqc90 (https://youtu.be/uHKjXfbqc90)
Based on one random story here and another member's enthusiasm I would expect the outcome to be "who needs winters" or at least "summers work fine for the most part". Well guess what.. I quote the narrator/test-driver: "(leaving summer tires on) is not something you want to do. This was a base run to see what these cars can do with summers and the answer is they don't do much. Even with AWD they just don't have any grip for accelerating, cornering or stopping" :shocked: Oops, time for some to give that car seller an angry call I guess... No surprise for the rest of us.
Also, don't forget these two are cars with AWD systems with multiple locking diffs and special modes for optimized torque distribution for all sorts of roads snow included (of-course with the proper tires on), miles ahead in performance from any Haldex clutch system and they miserably fail to be driveable with summer tires as you can see they are all over the place. Still, to this day every forum has their over-enthusiastic R/S3/xDrive owner who will buy none of this and claim his car to have powers that defy simple mechanics and common sense...
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I'll just add a last word on the whole "Audi 80 on summers vs FWD on winters" story as it may be a bit funny but can't be used to draw conclusions at least not by anyone with a half-decent understanding/experience of driving on proper snow.
As I said earlier, it's perfectly possible to spin the wheels on a FWD with winters if you want to. It's even possible on a AWD with winters. There are several variables in that story that we don't know that could provide an explanation. What seems more probable to me is that the cars were parked on a very slippery surface. Setting off at an icy uphill can be quite tricky even with winters. At the French Alps, I was driving my FWD with winters fine through 1month's hardened accumulated snow, I was even going up and down 10% slopes without any issue ever but just once I parked it on a friend's slightly inclined yard at a time that half-melt snow was re-freezing. Leaving his place afterwards I wasn't able to get going without some pushing. Once going I did again everything without drama but I want to stress that setting off at the wrong combination of conditions can give you trouble even with winters and that is the only situation that AWD would give you some extra help. That does not prove AWD is preferred to winter tires when you have real snow on the road simply because setting off is one thing, but car control while moving is another with no help from AWD. I also have to add that unless your friend had just a very dirty parking area to start from and then everything was rather clean on the road, he should have never set off on a car with summer times if at the same time a car with winters was unable to start, corner or brake safely in the same conditions. This should be common knowledge.
As a bonus, have a look at the following video of testing an EVO and an STI with summers and then with winters:
https://youtu.be/uHKjXfbqc90 (https://youtu.be/uHKjXfbqc90)
Based on one random story here and another member's enthusiasm I would expect the outcome to be "who needs winters" or at least "summers work fine for the most part". Well guess what.. I quote the narrator/test-driver: "(leaving summer tires on) is not something you want to do. This was a base run to see what these cars can do with summers and the answer is they don't do much. Even with AWD they just don't have any grip for accelerating, cornering or stopping" :shocked: Oops, time for some to give that car seller an angry call I guess... No surprise for the rest of us.
Also, don't forget these two are cars with AWD systems with multiple locking diffs and special modes for optimized torque distribution for all sorts of roads snow included (of-course with the proper tires on), miles ahead in performance from any Haldex clutch system and they miserably fail to be driveable with summer tires as you can see they are all over the place. Still, to this day every forum has their over-enthusiastic R/S3/xDrive owner who will buy none of this and claim his car to have powers that defy simple mechanics and common sense...
I bow to your superior knowlage :whistle:
I never said that winter tyres were not good, all I said was that sometimes they are not perfect. Also for what it's worth both cars were parked in a garage and he had about 30-40ft of run on the flat before going uphill.
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Found this on page 290 of my GTI Owners Manual -
"Winter or all-weather tyres improve the vehicle handling and brake response during winter conditions. Volkswagen recommends that winter tyres be fitted to the vehicle at temperatures below +7°C (+45°F) or in wintry conditions."
"Four-wheel drive (4MOTION)
Thanks to its four-wheel drive, the vehicle will have plenty of traction in winter conditions, even with the standard tyres. Nevertheless, Volkswagen still recommends that winter tyres or all-year tyres should be fitted on all 4 wheels in winter, mainly because this will give a better braking response."
:nerd:
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This is what VW have to say on their website -
http://www.volkswagen.co.uk/need-help/owners/winter-tyres-4motion
"Do I need winter tyres if my car has 4 Motion?
Volkswagen's 4 Motion definitely offers an advantage delivering drive to the road, although it's a mistake to think that 4 Motion means you don't need winter tyres. When they're fitted, winter tyres increase the 4 Motion advantage significantly and will make sure you get the best results out of your 4 Motion system. 4 Motion doesn't do much for steering and braking. Fitting winter tyres provides better drive, steering and braking."
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I was driving home in the snowy/icy conditions earlier in the week and happily let the Mk3 Focus RS owner who was in more than a rush than I was through who was on the black option wheels so had Cup 2s, braver man than me (having left mine once on the R over winter)
Massively noticeable on a A road with lot of roundabouts that his breaking distance was extended and he just could not put the power down coming off roundabouts
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Daz.... I bow to VW's superior knowledge :drool: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin:
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Found this on page 290 of my GTI Owners Manual -
"Winter or all-weather tyres improve the vehicle handling and brake response during winter conditions. Volkswagen recommends that winter tyres be fitted to the vehicle at temperatures below +7°C (+45°F) or in wintry conditions."
"Four-wheel drive (4MOTION)
Thanks to its four-wheel drive, the vehicle will have plenty of traction in winter conditions, even with the standard tyres. Nevertheless, Volkswagen still recommends that winter tyres or all-year tyres should be fitted on all 4 wheels in winter, mainly because this will give a better braking response."
:nerd:
Having driven various cars over 23yrs up here & having used winters for the past 7 to 8yrs I can confirm that the above is basic knowledge if you observe stuff....& take & interest...
Still can't belive people think that AWD/4WD on summers will beat 2wd on winters.....seen M135i RWD on winters cruise past Audi A4 quattros (RS) on summers..even beat up old 5series on winters pass Range Rovers...
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Found this on page 290 of my GTI Owners Manual -
"Winter or all-weather tyres improve the vehicle handling and brake response during winter conditions. Volkswagen recommends that winter tyres be fitted to the vehicle at temperatures below +7°C (+45°F) or in wintry conditions."
"Four-wheel drive (4MOTION)
Thanks to its four-wheel drive, the vehicle will have plenty of traction in winter conditions, even with the standard tyres. Nevertheless, Volkswagen still recommends that winter tyres or all-year tyres should be fitted on all 4 wheels in winter, mainly because this will give a better braking response."
:nerd:
Having driven various cars over 23yrs up here & having used winters for the past 7 to 8yrs I can confirm that the above is basic knowledge if you observe stuff....& take & interest...
Still can't belive people think that AWD/4WD on summers will beat 2wd on winters.....seen M135i RWD on winters cruise past Audi A4 quattros (RS) on summers..even beat up old 5series on winters pass Range Rovers...
I am astounded at the amount of snow driving God's there are on this forum. :laugh:
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Found this on page 290 of my GTI Owners Manual -
"Winter or all-weather tyres improve the vehicle handling and brake response during winter conditions. Volkswagen recommends that winter tyres be fitted to the vehicle at temperatures below +7°C (+45°F) or in wintry conditions."
"Four-wheel drive (4MOTION)
Thanks to its four-wheel drive, the vehicle will have plenty of traction in winter conditions, even with the standard tyres. Nevertheless, Volkswagen still recommends that winter tyres or all-year tyres should be fitted on all 4 wheels in winter, mainly because this will give a better braking response."
:nerd:
Having driven various cars over 23yrs up here & having used winters for the past 7 to 8yrs I can confirm that the above is basic knowledge if you observe stuff....& take & interest...
Still can't belive people think that AWD/4WD on summers will beat 2wd on winters.....seen M135i RWD on winters cruise past Audi A4 quattros (RS) on summers..even beat up old 5series on winters pass Range Rovers...
Sorry, who on earth has said that. The R’s AWD pretty well negates the need for winter tyres for 90+% of Golf owners for most of the time. Ok head to head in severe conditions the winters will win a race, but my recent experience and first in The R was excellent although it was so bad Monday I wouldn’t have driven even with winters.
I have a friend with a FWD Fiesta who lives near Aberdeen and they have winter tyres and need them!!
Then they are guaranteed severe winters. So makes sense.
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The R’s AWD pretty well negates the need for winter tyres for 90+% of Golf owners for most of the time.
So you disagree with what Volkswagen say about 4WD and winter tyres?
*Play nice*
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Sorry, who on earth has said that. The R’s AWD pretty well negates the need for winter tyres for 90+% of Golf owners for most of the time. Ok head to head in severe conditions the winters will win a race, but my recent experience and first in The R was excellent although it was so bad Monday I wouldn’t have driven even with winters.
I have a friend with a FWD Fiesta who lives near Aberdeen and they have winter tyres and need them!!
Then they are guaranteed severe winters. So makes sense.
You state that Aberdeen has sever winters...er NO, quite mild compared to various other places around here..I used to live in Aberdeen.. :wink:
You state that the "R" AWD negates the need for winter tyres for 90+% of Golf owners for most of the time."
So 90 % of Golf "R" owners live in a hot country which does not get ice, snow, or temps below +7C..???
I see way more "R" up here than GTI...then I see loads of GTD....
As for it being bad snow..the only thing that stops me is snow depth...6 inch plus on uncleared road I have problems....as I only have 5 inch ground clearance.... :grin:
Any conditions with temps below +7C winter tyres outperform summers...engineering fact....all due to the material containing more silica which stops the rubber going hard....& your summers will start to go hard at that temp...so you lose flex & grip contact with road....& that's any road, so even a nice clean dry road...
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Because 4 driven wheels versus 2 have 0 impact on braking performance and near 0 on cornering on ice?
Do you even know where your filler cap is on the car or rather have someone at the petrol station do it for you? This is a totally serious question.
*Moderator removed the image due to foul language. 👍🏻
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Is there any way to block seeing certain members posts on this forum? I can think of a few I'd like to not see.
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Is there any way to block seeing certain members posts on this forum? I can think of a few I'd like to not see.
I agree.
You prefer to post derogatory comments when people disagree with you, rather than contribute to the discussion.
I am astounded at the amount of snow driving God's there are on this forum. :laugh:
I bow to your superior knowlage :whistle:
But you're never wrong, how could anyone ever doubt you :rolleyes:
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ANY driven wheel needs to get grip & that is supplied by the tyre to roads contact patch....if you have summers on you lose compared to winter tyres...as summers go hard below +7C & the contact patch changes & they don't have snipes
Modified for clarity now as posts were altered & got wrong end of stick... :embarrassed:
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@golfdave
scanesare was not referring to you. The moderator removed information that would have made that clear.
The moderators have edited one of my post too. So I may be on thin ice. Now, do I need 4WD, winter tyres or a snorkel for thin ice? :evil:
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@golfdave
scanesare was not referring to you. The moderator removed information that would have made that clear.
So who was he referring to as my post was directly above his.... :undecided:
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So who was he referring to as my post was directly above his.... :undecided:
I'll send you a PM.
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The R’s AWD pretty well negates the need for winter tyres for 90+% of Golf owners for most of the time.
So you disagree with what Volkswagen say about 4WD and winter tyres?
At the risk of coming under enemy fire :rolleyes:, I see what CHB100 is getting at (I think) and agree that for many in the UK, winter tyres aren't a necessity. I have never owned winter tyres and have been driving for over 30 years. So presumably I should've crashed and died at least 20 times by now but amazingly, no. I don't think anyone is doubting the science or engineering that proves winter tyres are better in extreme conditions, it's just that normal tyres can cope for most most of the time and the extra expense is not worth it.
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At the risk of coming under enemy fire :rolleyes:, I see what CHB100 is getting at (I think) and agree that for many in the UK, winter tyres aren't a necessity. I have never owned winter tyres and have been driving for over 30 years. So presumably I should've crashed and died at least 20 times by now but amazingly, no. I don't think anyone is doubting the science or engineering that proves winter tyres are better in extreme conditions, it's just that normal tyres can cope for most most of the time and the extra expense is not worth it.
Agree, but that's the nub of the problem...I see loads of people from down south & central belt driving up here on hols, ski-ing etc & basically having huge problems even on relatively clear roads....& they think because they have fancy electronic systems & AWD or 4WD that they are ok.....
Until they get passed by us on winters & or they end up in a ditch, or crashing into other people...that's what I hate is having to spend loads of time & skill driving around these people who are WAY out of their depth & they would have been far better of spending money on some winters or x-climates...which would mean they could cope better as they now have grip & it helps out us other drivers as we know they have some stopping & steering ability & won't slid into us at the slightest provocation...
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Is there any way to block seeing certain members posts on this forum? I can think of a few I'd like to not see.
I agree.
You prefer to post derogatory comments when people disagree with you, rather than contribute to the discussion.
I am astounded at the amount of snow driving God's there are on this forum. :laugh:
I bow to your superior knowlage :whistle:
But you're never wrong, how could anyone ever doubt you :rolleyes:
Wow, now that's a statement considering your post on the bottom of page 6 that has been moderated because you were insulting another member on here. No wait I suppose you thi k that was okay though as surely you could never be wrong. :laugh: :rolleyes:
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At the risk of coming under enemy fire :rolleyes:, I see what CHB100 is getting at (I think) and agree that for many in the UK, winter tyres aren't a necessity. I have never owned winter tyres and have been driving for over 30 years. So presumably I should've crashed and died at least 20 times by now but amazingly, no. I don't think anyone is doubting the science or engineering that proves winter tyres are better in extreme conditions, it's just that normal tyres can cope for most most of the time and the extra expense is not worth it.
Agree, but that's the nub of the problem...I see loads of people from down south & central belt driving up here on hols, ski-ing etc & basically having huge problems even on relatively clear roads....& they think because they have fancy electronic systems & AWD or 4WD that they are ok.....
Until they get passed by us on winters & or they end up in a ditch, or crashing into other people...that's what I hate is having to spend loads of time & skill driving around these people who are WAY out of their depth & they would have been far better of spending money on some winters or x-climates...which would mean they could cope better as they now have grip & it helps out us other drivers as we know they have some stopping & steering ability & won't slid into us at the slightest provocation...
But the point is the vast majority don't do the above hence for most people most of the time winters are a luxury that you would find useful but not essential.
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(https://i.imgur.com/8WsTL2t.jpg)
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it's just that normal tyres can cope for most most of the time and the extra expense is not worth it.
As I pointed out earlier in this thread, additional winter tyres can ultimately cost nothing over just having one set of normal tyres, but as is usually the case, no one takes any notice of my contributions here. Perhaps it's because my GTI is nearly 28 years old and my Mk7 is a lowly Match.
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I'd just like to add to this debate by letting you all know that I am indeed a driving god in all conditions
That is all :grin: :grin:
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I am Brian and so is my wife !! :grin:
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it's just that normal tyres can cope for most most of the time and the extra expense is not worth it.
As I pointed out earlier in this thread, additional winter tyres can ultimately cost nothing over just having one set of normal tyres, but as is usually the case, no one takes any notice of my contributions here. Perhaps it's because my GTI is nearly 28 years old and my Mk7 is a lowly Match.
Certainly not ignored but neither would be the £1k or so initial outlay. You're right but I don't have that amount of cash spare for things I don't need. I do need that amount currently for central heating repairs (definitely necessary), more than that to replace my ageing and failing double glazing etc etc etc....
I also don't recall anyone knocking your Match, infact I think it attracted some interest with the mods you were doing but you don't seem to post much about it. Others post about their non GTI models too and don't appear to get any negative comments because they aren't GTIs so not sure what that comment refers to. I for one am interested and I'm 100% sure plenty of others are too.
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Is there any way to block seeing certain members posts on this forum? I can think of a few I'd like to not see.
Seriously now??
I don't know who Daz Auto is, but him and I were (wasting our time by) repeatedly providing technical explanations with arguments which are of-course common knowledge, before you decided to bring the discussion down to the worst internet levels by just ignoring everything and writing something as deep as: "But you're never wrong, how could anyone ever doubt you :rolleyes:"
Right after that I wrote a full 2 paragraphs explaining why setting off is a bit of a different situation technically and that it does not mean anything about increased AWD driveability on snow with summers, that you naturally also chose to completely ignore (I guess you have a hard time with facts after all) and instead replied: I bow to your superior knowlage :whistle: WTF?
And another one on golfdave's subsequent reply: "I am astounded at the amount of snow driving God's there are on this forum. :laugh:"
I mean seriously is this the level of this forum? This is not Golfmk7 or Vortex where trolls feed off, if you don't have an account there I suggest making one, you'll enjoy it a lot. But the best part after all that repeated provocation to turn this topic into a mess was turning all aggressive-passive and asking to not see certain posts :shocked: That really was some nerve...
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"Daz.... I bow to VW's superior knowledge"
I wrote that! Tongue in cheek but saying that VW probably DO have some knowledge about cars, their cars in particular!
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"Daz.... I bow to VW's superior knowledge"
I wrote that! Tongue in cheek but saying that VW probably DO have some knowledge about cars, their cars in particular!
Yes, counted one irony too many, still plenty enough to prove a determination to move away from a logical and technical discussion and derail the thread to almost what it ended up being... Typical when faced with hard facts and no reasonable replies to simple questions are available but very disappointing to happen here, at least for me, I think of golfgtiforum as a place that promotes meaningful discussions over pointless personal fights. Maybe not.
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Is there any way to block seeing certain members posts on this forum? I can think of a few I'd like to not see.
Seriously now??
I don't know who Daz Auto is, but him and I were (wasting our time by) repeatedly providing technical explanations with arguments which are of-course common knowledge, before you decided to bring the discussion down to the worst internet levels by just ignoring everything and writing something as deep as: "But you're never wrong, how could anyone ever doubt you :rolleyes:"
Right after that I wrote a full 2 paragraphs explaining why setting off is a bit of a different situation technically and that it does not mean anything about increased AWD driveability on snow with summers, that you naturally also chose to completely ignore (I guess you have a hard time with facts after all) and instead replied: I bow to your superior knowlage :whistle: WTF?
And another one on golfdave's subsequent reply: "I am astounded at the amount of snow driving God's there are on this forum. :laugh:"
I mean seriously is this the level of this forum? This is not Golfmk7 or Vortex where trolls feed off, if you don't have an account there I suggest making one, you'll enjoy it a lot. But the best part after all that repeated provocation to turn this topic into a mess was turning all aggressive-passive and asking to not see certain posts :shocked: That really was some nerve...
Can you edit your post to remove the bit I didn't say?
Btw if we had a way of not seeing post from members I would have to see yours or you mine.
I see you have edited it now.
Btw do you think that dasauto showing a photo with the caption the sperm was not both rude and a bit pre teen? You probably don't because he agrees with you.
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"Daz.... I bow to VW's superior knowledge"
I wrote that! Tongue in cheek but saying that VW probably DO have some knowledge about cars, their cars in particular!
Yes, counted one irony too many, still plenty enough to prove a determination to move away from a logical and technical discussion and derail the thread to almost what it ended up being... Typical when faced with hard facts and no reasonable replies to simple questions are available but very disappointing to happen here, at least for me, I think of golfgtiforum as a place that promotes meaningful discussions over pointless personal fights. Maybe not.
Can you point to the post where I said that winter tyres are not good? Thought not.
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Can you edit your post to remove the bit I didn't say?
Btw if we had a way of not seeing post from members I would have to see yours or you mine.
It's all there on pages 5 and 6, nothing to remove. Try to get a grip at some point, questioning everyone's common sense here is funny for a while but tiring after a few pages.
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Can you edit your post to remove the bit I didn't say?
Btw if we had a way of not seeing post from members I would have to see yours or you mine.
It's all there on pages 5 and 6, nothing to remove. Try to get a grip at some point, questioning everyone's common sense here is funny for a while but tiring after a few pages.
Not now that you have removed it.
I bet your fun at a party :rolleyes:
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"Daz.... I bow to VW's superior knowledge"
I wrote that! Tongue in cheek but saying that VW probably DO have some knowledge about cars, their cars in particular!
I think the problem is some people are so full of their own self importance and dry they don't get it was meant as a JOKE.
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Funs over everyone
Try and play nice in the future.....it is Christmas after all :grin: