GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk7 => Topic started by: andykram on 12 October 2018, 19:51
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The wife's R is three years old in January so I've been considering options. We borrowed out of a very low rate mortgage to pay the PCP off 18 months ago so now need to decide whether to start again with a new car (by which we pay the mortgage back) or keep the car and pay the mortgage back as if we were paying a car loan off.
As it's been 3 years nearly I've not really been keeping an eye on VW's prices. She has a 5 door manual but I think we'd go for a 5 door DSG this time. Off I go to Drive the Deal's website to find out such a car with metallic paint is £35485!!!! Chuff me, that's a lot. Admittedly, their discounted price is £29 595 but even so, it's a hell of a lot for a Golf. And judging by the waiting time thread elsewhere on here we'd have to wait months for it for the privilege. All this is assuming you can still order them with the Mk8 being imminent.
Much as we love the R that we have (it's been faultlessly reliable although the Lapis blue paint quality isn't great) I can't see me stumping up £30k for a Golf anymore. I know the R is a bit of a Q car but it looks a bit too bland for me, especially at that price and, as I've said before, it's got to the point where the VW badge simply isn't worth that sort of money anymore.
The wife won't have anything other than an R (I suggested a nearly new 335 Beemer but she was having none of that) so I reckon we will just pay this one off and keep it a good while. The point is, however, I can't see us buying another VW which is a shame. But ultimately, no Golf is worth that sort of money in my book. Can you imagine how much a 5 door Mk8 DSG R will be? I know everyone buys these on PCPs but they'll end up being hundreds of pounds a month more than what we paid last time (and that was with a low balloon payment so we paid a reasonable amount on our PCP).
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Why is it not worth that money? Quite a few people say the same thing but when you look at other cars you don't get the same standard spec as you do on an R or GTi.
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It's nothing to do with spec. It's just a Golf. £35k for a GOLF! Just let that sink in.
To be fair, it probably says a lot about how expensive cars have become. You can pay well over £30k for a Seat Leon for example. That's madness too - don't care how fast it is!!
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Have you ever read a bad review on an R or a GTI? About the worst thing said is that they are not full on hot hatches. When u compare to what else u can get for £30k they are not bad. At least your wife not being swayed by a premium badge.
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You can pay upward of 20k for a Fiesta...
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Have you ever looked below your Golf, around the suspension arms, and particularly at the rear, and around the splash gaurds for the rear disc it wil be crumbling away with rust. This happens after 3 to 4 years old, never driven on salty roads. This is definately my last VW. Dnon't think this is £30k+ material.
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The paint isn't £30k plus either. it's the poorest quality I've ever seen in all the VWs we've had. Beautiful colour but poor quality.
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Most paints are the same these days as they are water based.
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As a majority of cars purchased these days are acquired on PCP's or lease, this gives the manufacturers a relatively free reign on pricing. As you say £35500 + for a Golf is ridicules, but as long as the cars monthly cost falls into a budget, that's all most customers are interested in. Because I suspect that most people on these deals are not interested in the final balloon payment. Only monthly costs.
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Blimey :whistle: You are kidding surely. The days of a 'Golf' being merely a run of the mill car are long gone. Maybe your ego? is better suited to an Audi?
I paid a discounted £31.5k for my R spec below and thought it a relative bargain at the time, I now regard it as a snip. Seriously I love this car in every way and where can you get the same performance, ride handling, AWD, equipment for that money.
Then I prefer subtle than say the gross Honda Type R.
To add, how much was the otr price of the MKV R32 'Golf' in 2008? I'm guessing similar spec to my car would have been pushing £30K. Seem to recall base list of around £26/7K.
The base 3 door GTI was £19995 in 2005!
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I just think cars are getting more expensive now maybe because of all the tech loaded in them.
I'm still deciding how much I want/can afford to spend and choosing between a high spec Astra, Golf GTI or R and Audi A3 or S3.
The Astra comes in at about £24K. The A3/S3 around £32-40K with the options I want. The Golf sits in the middle around £28-35K depending on options and whether I go for GTI or R.
The makes the pricing about right compared to other cars I would say.
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The prices have gone up quite a bit in the last 10 years or so. But then again so has the tech and the levels of standard equipment. To be fair, all cars have gone up about the same rate, it's not just VW's. It's not as if VW's have suddenly become much more than any other brand, there's always been a slight premium over the everyman Ford's, Vauxhall's and the like.
Having said that though, it seems easier to me to spot where they've cut corners/costs than it used to be. Sure there are lots of nice soft to the touch materials in all the obvious places, but much cheapness in other places, such as the rear door cappings for example. I also don't think the reliability or mechanical build quality is any better than other cars for similar money.
I had lots of niggles with my Mk5 outside warranty, so if I decided to keep a VW beyond 3 years i'd definitely be going for an extended warranty. Nice tight panel gaps though, and a good solid 'thunk' when closing the doors.
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All cars are getting very expensive, and they're less well built. They're loaded with tech now, but tech is cheap. The active display is cheaper than the dials and mini MFD they replace.
Years ago VW used to sell on the basis of how reliable they are. 8 years ago they sold used cars on the slogan "have you ever noticed how a used Volkswagen never looks its age?".
As just said - the underpinnings, rear discs and disc shrouds are covered in surface rust. Underpinnings I can forgive - you don't see them unless you look for them. Everything behind the wheels cosmetically rusting up looks awful.
In 9 years the Golf GTI has increased in RRP by almost 50%. Disciunts are a little higher niw, but back in the reign of the MK5 I got 2 Golfs through UKNewCars and had a 12% discount with each of them. So in the same time we've seen that kind of price rise, most people's wages have hardly risen at all in a time of historically low inflation.
VW have had as many as 3 price rises in one year over that period. The trouble is, it's not a VW thing, it's all of the marques. The biggest rises happened after the great scrappage scheme. Some got £2k for their bangers, but nearly everyone put their RRPs up by £2k in response.
I got a new Polo GTI+ recently to replace the wife's A1, and I like it that much, the wife commutes in my R and I have the Polo. I'm giving serious thought to trading the R in for another. Pretty much as well equipped as a performance Golf, is as solid as the Golf (only 34kg lighter than a standard Golf GTI) and can be had for £20k from a broker - it makes the Golf look setiously expensive. The 9nly things I really miss are the lack of "never need to touch it" electronic handbrake and 4WD traction that the R has. The door cards are a little cheaper (no rubberised top rail or covering behind the arm rest on the door). Otherwise it feels much nimbler than the R and a little slower at full acceleration as you'd expect, but not by as much as you'd expect. The new infotainment and digital dash v2 make the pre-facelift Golf instrumentation feel historic. The brake disc hubs aren't rusting up either.
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Of course it's a run of the mill car. It's just a fast Golf.
And just to reply to your ego comment CHB, I hate Audis with a passion. But at least you can probably justify £35k on one!!
Monkeyhanger, I would agree with you, especially the wage rise point. I',m sure I'm not the only one on here whose wage has barely budged in the last 6,7,8 years.
The Polo GTi got a very good write up in this month's VW Driver. Now admittedly, by definition, they don't criticize the cars too much, but it looked a nice car and for much more reasonable money.
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The Polo GTi got a very good write up in this month's VW Driver. Now admittedly, by definition, they don't criticize the cars too much, but it looked a nice car and for much more reasonable money.
It also got an excellent review on 5th Gear in the week up against the Mini Cooper S. I like the look of them too but for me boot size is important and I struggle with the Golf at times.
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The Golf has more class/cache than most in its price range and continuously comes top in comparison reviews and this makes it a cut above 'run of the mill makes'.
I also dislike Audi's snobbery.
Based on my figures of previous generations list prices. I haven't a clue what you base this post on, the kit or equivalent on today's Golf GTI/R would have only been found on £50/60k of 10 years ago.
I think it's the psychology of the £30K barrier. It's all relative except as been mentioned wage increases ( and bloody low savings rates!!).
I waited until 70 before I splashed this kind of money on a car btw. Priorities. Think many of the younger guys have been spoilt by these 'cheap' pcp plans. Keep the R you know it makes sense. :wink:
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I too quite like the look of the new Polo, although the current lack of a manual gearbox is off putting. It's also probably a little bit too small for me. In which case i'm going to bang my Skoda drum again, as i'd be quite interested to see how the production version of this develops, as it will be on the same platform as the Polo, but a little larger;-
https://youtu.be/xL-dliPhJ8s
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From 1998 for all your inflation enthusiasts.
An "R" cost £20,000 versus £32,000-ish today
If you spent an arm and leg over those 20 years to keep it nice, then expect to get about £4000 back
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201808199651519
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-z7S5Pnc/0/5d13a4c2/O/i-z7S5Pnc.jpg)
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Double post
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If you adjust for inflation, £20k in 1998 is roughly equivalent to around £34.5k today.
When you consider the advances in performance and technology of the cars, it almost makes the new cars look good value? :)
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How much did your R cost 3 years ago? I'm sure they were expensive then, not sure why it's a surprise now. I think the 7.5 R is good value for what you get.
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From 1998 for all your inflation enthusiasts.
An "R" cost £20,000 versus £32,000-ish today
If you spent an arm and leg over those 20 years to keep it nice, then expect to get about £4000 back
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201808199651519
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-z7S5Pnc/0/5d13a4c2/O/i-z7S5Pnc.jpg)
Are they MK4 prices there?
Not really comparing apples with apples. The VR6/R32 were a lot more expensive than the GTI of the same era because they had a V6 engine as well as the haldex set-up, as opposed to now where it's using a very similar engine to the GTI with the same displacement, but with a bigger turbo and injectors (a few other small differences i'm sure), and the haldex. A better comparison of VW inflation is 2.0GTI to 2.0GTI.
The R is basically a GTI PP that's had a remap and half of the £1100 cost of a haldex unit (the price differential Audi change between quattro and non-quattro variants of the same car on the A3) offset by not having the PP's diff - for that reason, the MK7 R is relatively little more than the GTI compared to the VR6/R32 of old.
To be honest, the MK7 GTI looks very expensive compared to the outgoing MK5 price, but compare MK5 to MK6 and MK6 to MK7 and you'll see that it was the introduction of the MK6 where VW really hiked the prices up, MK7 came in with a ton of extra tech and was only a few hundred quid more than the outgoing MK6 RRP.
The MK6 added about £200 of equipment over the MK5, saved a lot of assembly time and cost by introducing a massively simplified multilink rear suspension, and cost about £4k more. It was a move that pushed me to the well equipped Scirocco, as it looked a steal next to the MK6 Golf.
Now all the lease specials have left the leasers hands and been resold, R used prices are looking pretty solid again - I was surprised to see 15 Reg manual Rs going for between £21k and £22k at most franchised dealerships - was expecting it to be more in the region of £18k. On that basis, i'm hoping to get £16-17k for mine in p/x next march if I do chop it in for the wife to have a Polo GTI+, when i'm presuming it will have depreciated by less than £2k at retail between now and then.
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Just think how much a Golf will cost in another 10 years! :laugh:
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How much did your R cost 3 years ago? I'm sure they were expensive then, not sure why it's a surprise now. I think the 7.5 R is good value for what you get.
Exactly, I personally am fed up with this ‘only a Golf’ garbage. It’s way better than the competition and has been virtually from day one, and yet folks still whinge about the price. Fair enough if list meant list, but with 15 to 18% discounts it is good value.
That the VW brand is trusted and sells in such numbers still, after all its negative press tells you how well it’s thought of.
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If you adjust for inflation, £20k in 1998 is roughly equivalent to around £34.5k today.
When you consider the advances in performance and technology of the cars, it almost makes the new cars look good value? :)
Thanks for the maths, so not that bad after all!
Plus you've gone from 174 to 300bhp!
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From 1998 for all your inflation enthusiasts.
An "R" cost £20,000 versus £32,000-ish today
If you spent an arm and leg over those 20 years to keep it nice, then expect to get about £4000 back
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201808199651519
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-z7S5Pnc/0/5d13a4c2/O/i-z7S5Pnc.jpg)
Are they MK4 prices there?
1998 is the venerable MK3!
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Now all the lease specials have left the leasers hands and been resold, R used prices are looking pretty solid again - I was surprised to see 15 Reg manual Rs going for between £21k and £22k at most franchised dealerships - was expecting it to be more in the region of £18k. On that basis, i'm hoping to get £16-17k for mine in p/x next march if I do chop it in for the wife to have a Polo GTI+, when i'm presuming it will have depreciated by less than £2k at retail between now and then.
In my area they are trending more to the 18k value
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-kjrzMw9/0/7a32a179/O/i-kjrzMw9.jpg)
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The only reason anyone buys an A3, 1 Series or A Class over a performance Golf is for the badge. I looked into an A3 Sport/S Line when VW stopped the standard GTI but when you compare them side by side the Golf is such better value. The motoring press would say A3 has better build quality - there might be some truth in that but not alot of difference.
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The "only a Golf" comment could equally be applied to "only a Focus" or whatever as the price of the cars outstrip people's ability to buy them new. These were traditionally cars for people on average wages but they are increasingly becoming cars for the most well heeled in society. As I said, it's a shame, as I have been a long term customer of VW but they have now lost me as a new car customer. I can no longer afford them.
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Bloke at work has just got a 2.0tdi A5 and he thinks it's the dogs bollocks(it's not). He couldn't believe how much I told him I bought my Golf for and he said "you could've got an Audi or a Merc for that"
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Now all the lease specials have left the leasers hands and been resold, R used prices are looking pretty solid again - I was surprised to see 15 Reg manual Rs going for between £21k and £22k at most franchised dealerships - was expecting it to be more in the region of £18k. On that basis, i'm hoping to get £16-17k for mine in p/x next march if I do chop it in for the wife to have a Polo GTI+, when i'm presuming it will have depreciated by less than £2k at retail between now and then.
In my area they are trending more to the 18k value
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-kjrzMw9/0/7a32a179/O/i-kjrzMw9.jpg)
That car has about 20k miles more than mine or similar I have seen for £21-22k, has red paint and the Cadiz wheels (the used market seems hammer you for those). On mileage alone, that car you show has about £1500 worth extra depreciation on it. Add metalluc paint and Prets into the mix and you're back towards ,£21k.
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The motoring press would say A3 has better build quality - there might be some truth in that but not alot of difference.
I do not believe that at all. They use the same parts at the same pkaform level (A1 vs Polo vs Ibiza vs Fabia; Golf vs A3 vs Octavia vs Leon) excepting trim parts and body pressings. Global building techniques and standards across the marques too - there's no way they lavish more attention on a mass produced A3 than a mass produced Golf, Octavia or Leon. The Audi normally gets a nicer set of door cards and a bit more in the soft plastics dept in the lower areas of the dash, maybe leather seats in lieu of a decent level of equipment, dependent on the model (think S3 vs R).
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(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-kjrzMw9/0/7a32a179/O/i-kjrzMw9.jpg)
OK, so it hasn't got the latest tech, but then neither will the current cars in a couple of years time, but it makes me wonder why the obsession with buying new?
I know people will say warranty, but I've not had any out of warranty problems in many years. And lower finance rates for those that borrow, but if it's on a lesser amount, it kind of balances out.
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The VW used finance rates are an absolute joke so it currently makes more financial sense to buy new. Other loans probably still wouldn't beat the new car rate either.
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How much did your R cost 3 years ago? I'm sure they were expensive then, not sure why it's a surprise now. I think the 7.5 R is good value for what you get.
Exactly, I personally am fed up with this ‘only a Golf’ garbage. It’s way better than the competition and has been virtually from day one, and yet folks still whinge about the price. Fair enough if list meant list, but with 15 to 18% discounts it is good value.
That the VW brand is trusted and sells in such numbers still, after all its negative press tells you how well it’s thought of.
My R has been the best and worst VW that i've ever owned.
Best equipped, amazing performance, no tramping, very reasonable mpg vs performance.
Worst gearbox I have ever had on a VW, akin to a 1994 Ford Transit van I used to have for a summer job from Uni. VW say it is characteristic for the car, and having driven another manual R with the same trait, i'd say it is likely to be true. Shame on you VW for knowingly fitting such a sh!te gearbox.
My instrumentation stalks are ridiculously slack for a car that has only done 26k miles.
Rusty brake disc hubs, rusty disc guards and other obvious penny pinching.
The drivers side sun visor has an annoying rattle-slap against the roof lining.
I have had 2 brief incidences of clutch slip in the cold.
It's been one of the least reliable VWs I have owned.
Not good enough for a £33k car. "Premium" is a thin veneer of slightly nicer interior trim that costs coppers to implement.
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The motoring press would say A3 has better build quality - there might be some truth in that but not alot of difference.
I do not believe that at all. They use the same parts at the same pkaform level (A1 vs Polo vs Ibiza vs Fabia; Golf vs A3 vs Octavia vs Leon) excepting trim parts and body pressings. Global building techniques and standards across the marques too - there's no way they lavish more attention on a mass produced A3 than a mass produced Golf, Octavia or Leon. The Audi normally gets a nicer set of door cards and a bit more in the soft plastics dept in the lower areas of the dash, maybe leather seats in lieu of a decent level of equipment, dependent on the model (think S3 vs R).
After having the S3 for 3 years and golfs for far far longer, I really don’t think there is any real difference in quality in the interiors. Don’t even think the quality of plastics is better lower down. A lot of it with an Audi is perception.
I went in a testdrive of a Q3 and a T-Rocc. I actually think overall that the Vw was better. Maybe it’s just that the q3 felt really old inside.
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Oh and I bought an S3 because it was cheaper on a pcp than both the R and gti.
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That car has about 20k miles more than mine or similar I have seen for £21-22k, has red paint and the Cadiz wheels (the used market seems hammer you for those). On mileage alone, that car you show has about £1500 worth extra depreciation on it. Add metalluc paint and Prets into the mix and you're back towards ,£21k.
OK, I didn't know your spec.
However, extra's mean very little outside the private market, so I think your best bet is a private sale on Autotrader versus dealer trade-in.
The base spec price will always have the biggest influence, then mileage and condition (CAP clean!)
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OK, so it hasn't got the latest tech, but then neither will the current cars in a couple of years time, but it makes me wonder why the obsession with buying new?
I know people will say warranty, but I've not had any out of warranty problems in many years. And lower finance rates for those that borrow, but if it's on a lesser amount, it kind of balances out.
Outside of the official dealer market they are approaching 50% of list pricing
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201809270938890
Or pay more from a dealer for an extendable warranty. It comes down to how to finance £15,000 vs £30,000, the dealer make it really easy to finance a new one!
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The VW used finance rates are an absolute joke so it currently makes more financial sense to buy new. Other loans probably still wouldn't beat the new car rate either.
They have heard you and lowered their rates to a slightly better 7.4% (versus 3-ish from a bank?)
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I went in a testdrive of a Q3 and a T-Rocc. I actually think overall that the Vw was better. Maybe it’s just that the q3 felt really old inside.
I was really disappointed with the T-Roc interior. One of the cheapest feeling and looking VW interiors I can remember. Way below what i've come to expect.
The Q3 interior is just long in the tooth, the new Q3 fixes that.
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Outside of the official dealer market they are approaching 50% of list pricing
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201809270938890
Or pay more from a dealer for an extendable warranty. It comes down to how to finance £15,000 vs £30,000, the dealer make it really easy to finance a new one!
Unless you use your money as working business capital, you might as well buy the £15k car outright. That way it's all done with. No monthlies and no need to have to make a decision about what car/deal to get when the finance reaches term.
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Guzzle -I wonder if Mk8 Golf wil also suffer the downgrading in interior feel?
This is one of the things I pondered before I decided to order a 2019 7.5
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A very good point about the Mk8 interior. Personally, I don’t think Vw will compromise on their flagship model in terms of volume.
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Hopefully not, i'd expect the Mk8 to at least be a step up on the new Polo, which is actually pretty good for a small car. Better than the T-Roc anyway.
I expect nice soft touch tactile materials in all the places you'll touch or where they'll be easily seen. Then there'll be swathes of hard cheap plastic wherever they think the average punter won't notice.
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From 1998 for all your inflation enthusiasts.
An "R" cost £20,000 versus £32,000-ish today
If you spent an arm and leg over those 20 years to keep it nice, then expect to get about £4000 back
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201808199651519
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-z7S5Pnc/0/5d13a4c2/O/i-z7S5Pnc.jpg)
Are they MK4 prices there?
Not really comparing apples with apples. The VR6/R32 were a lot more expensive than the GTI of the same era because they had a V6 engine as well as the haldex set-up, as opposed to now where it's using a very similar engine to the GTI with the same displacement, but with a bigger turbo and injectors (a few other small differences i'm sure), and the haldex. A better comparison of VW inflation is 2.0GTI to 2.0GTI.
The R is basically a GTI PP that's had a remap and half of the £1100 cost of a haldex unit (the price differential Audi change between quattro and non-quattro variants of the same car on the A3) offset by not having the PP's diff - for that reason, the MK7 R is relatively little more than the GTI compared to the VR6/R32 of old.
To be honest, the MK7 GTI looks very expensive compared to the outgoing MK5 price, but compare MK5 to MK6 and MK6 to MK7 and you'll see that it was the introduction of the MK6 where VW really hiked the prices up, MK7 came in with a ton of extra tech and was only a few hundred quid more than the outgoing MK6 RRP.
The MK6 added about £200 of equipment over the MK5, saved a lot of assembly time and cost by introducing a massively simplified multilink rear suspension, and cost about £4k more. It was a move that pushed me to the well equipped Scirocco, as it looked a steal next to the MK6 Golf.
Now all the lease specials have left the leasers hands and been resold, R used prices are looking pretty solid again - I was surprised to see 15 Reg manual Rs going for between £21k and £22k at most franchised dealerships - was expecting it to be more in the region of £18k. On that basis, i'm hoping to get £16-17k for mine in p/x next march if I do chop it in for the wife to have a Polo GTI+, when i'm presuming it will have depreciated by less than £2k at retail between now and then.
I thought the R had a different turbo and other engine upgrades like better pistons, oil jet cooling, stronger head and valve springs to the GTI PP? Not just a map... :undecided:
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^ It does. I was being simplistic and highlighting the need to compare a 2.0 4cyl to a 2.0 4 cyl, not a 2.8 or 3.2 V6 when doing inflation checks. Old VR6 was a markedly more expensive car than the GTI of the time for those reasons.
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Surely a bit of perspective is the order of the day.
I'd agree that generally the overall reliability & build quality isn't what it was (but as an 'outsider', I wasn't convinced as far back as the Mk5). I'd also agree with people about the Mk7, very good in some aspects, but not anywhere close to the perception of what the quality should be for what it is perceived it should be for the absolute list price).
However, in real terms, along with progress, the price isn't that bad. The problem is a combination of price Vs wage inflation, the impact of PCP and the German manufacturers attitude to direct Vs indirect discounts.
Admittedly not a direct comparison on the face of it, but first one that popped into my head, a 1990 Merc 190E 2l, with better build quality, but no more space, far less power/performance & a desert worth of kit shortage (a radio as standard by that point, maybe?) was in today's money 40k with likely few discounts available.
Even allowing for differences, badge etc, that's a lot of money for some solidity (or extra warranty, repairs etc). I haven't checked, but I wonder how much a fully loaded Cosworth would be compared to a GTI or R. Or, better still, an UrQuattro compared to an R.
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The wife's R is three years old in January so I've been considering options. We borrowed out of a very low rate mortgage to pay the PCP off 18 months ago so now need to decide whether to start again with a new car (by which we pay the mortgage back) or keep the car and pay the mortgage back as if we were paying a car loan off.
As it's been 3 years nearly I've not really been keeping an eye on VW's prices. She has a 5 door manual but I think we'd go for a 5 door DSG this time. Off I go to Drive the Deal's website to find out such a car with metallic paint is £35485!!!! Chuff me, that's a lot. Admittedly, their discounted price is £29 595 but even so, it's a hell of a lot for a Golf. And judging by the waiting time thread elsewhere on here we'd have to wait months for it for the privilege. All this is assuming you can still order them with the Mk8 being imminent.
Much as we love the R that we have (it's been faultlessly reliable although the Lapis blue paint quality isn't great) I can't see me stumping up £30k for a Golf anymore. I know the R is a bit of a Q car but it looks a bit too bland for me, especially at that price and, as I've said before, it's got to the point where the VW badge simply isn't worth that sort of money anymore.
The wife won't have anything other than an R (I suggested a nearly new 335 Beemer but she was having none of that) so I reckon we will just pay this one off and keep it a good while. The point is, however, I can't see us buying another VW which is a shame. But ultimately, no Golf is worth that sort of money in my book. Can you imagine how much a 5 door Mk8 DSG R will be? I know everyone buys these on PCPs but they'll end up being hundreds of pounds a month more than what we paid last time (and that was with a low balloon payment so we paid a reasonable amount on our PCP).
I'd be really interested to know how much your current R was new (list price) 3 years ago??
The R with DSG is a hell of car in terms of useable, serious sports car performance, standard kit and a level of class that a sporty Focus or Megane just can't match.
I'm not sure what you are expecting that kind of car should cost??
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Just been pleasantly surprised (more relieved, was hoping it would be this much, based on used forecourt prices) by p/x price offered against another new Polo GTI+ with broker discount for delivery around March next year.
Given the GFV of £15600 at 3 years when I bought it, to be £1900 up on that at 3 years and 5 months is excellent.
Dealer has stated they're prepared to give it an October value of £17500 and £300 off that value per month thereafter until it arrives. Assuming March 19 delivery with the car just under 4 years old, it'll have lost £3k a year (I paid £28k for it). Not bad at all.
Looks like we'll be fully DSG converted as still no news on the Polo gaining a manual box option as it was supposed to in September.
The coarseness of the R's manual box has put me off another, and VW seems to be doing all it can to stop manuals on performance models (emissions under test conditions to nlame, no doubt).
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I actually think cars are pretty reasonable price wise. When you think about all the parts involved, the manufacturing, cost of all the factories to run (bearing in mind parts will have been bought in from many different suppliers), painting, storage, transportation, shipping. Then all the various companies have to make a profit, the taxman takes a huge hit plus the German tax man. Then they have to cover the warranty and no doubt plenty of other costs I haven't thought of. To cover all of that and get such a well sorted car with excellent performance for £30ishK is a remarkable achievement! But would I pay £30k+ for a car? NO! :wink: :whistle: :laugh:
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I actually think cars are pretty reasonable price wise. When you think about all the parts involved, the manufacturing, cost of all the factories to run (bearing in mind parts will have been bought in from many different suppliers), painting, storage, transportation, shipping. Then all the various companies have to make a profit, the taxman takes a huge hit plus the German tax man. Then they have to cover the warranty and no doubt plenty of other costs I haven't thought of. To cover all of that and get such a well sorted car with excellent performance for £30ishK is a remarkable achievement! But would I pay £30k+ for a car? NO! :wink: :whistle: :laugh:
I think when the fast Audi estates are circa £70k for the medium one and £85-90k for the larger one, a rapid, all wheel drive, up market hatch that cracks 60mph in nearly 4 secs is actually a bargain for £34k!
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Appreciate in the US that GTI and R come in 3 options bundles I believe but the R is significantly more than the GTI over there despite lower prices overall. About $15,000 more I think. Both GTI and R are reasonable value I think given the standard spec and performance on offer.
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Appreciate in the US that GTI and R come in 3 options bundles I believe but the R is significantly more than the GTI over there despite lower prices overall. About $15,000 more I think. Both GTI and R are reasonable value I think given the standard spec and performance on offer.
The OP is in Leeds not the US?! What's the price in the US got to do with anything or have I missed some posts?!
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We have had 10 to 12 new Golf GTI's / GTd's over the years from a mk1 1600 GTI to our mk 7.5 PP GTI. In all of those's years we never considered a VR6 or R32 as we thought they were very expensive. What as the best ?
1."R" for out and out performance, poor MPG.
2. mk 7.5 pp all round brilliance.
3. mk 1 1600 GTI nostalgia.
4. Off all the 5 GTD's all round good cars brilliant mpg good performance. Slightly boring compared to the R and the PP
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Appreciate in the US that GTI and R come in 3 options bundles I believe but the R is significantly more than the GTI over there despite lower prices overall. About $15,000 more I think. Both GTI and R are reasonable value I think given the standard spec and performance on offer.
The OP is in Leeds not the US?! What's the price in the US got to do with anything or have I missed some posts?!
The OP is stating that R is now too expensive. My point is that the premium paid here for an R over a GTI and other golfs is low relative to other territories like the US.
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We have had 10 to 12 new Golf GTI's / GTd's over the years from a mk1 1600 GTI to our mk 7.5 PP GTI. In all of those's years we never considered a VR6 or R32 as we thought they were very expensive. What as the best ?
1."R" for out and out performance, poor MPG.
2. mk 7.5 pp all round brilliance.
3. mk 1 1600 GTI nostalgia.
4. Off all the 5 GTD's all round good cars brilliant mpg good performance. Slightly boring compared to the R and the PP
Is the R mpg much worse than the GTI? I thought it was around just 1 mpg worse when driven "sensibly"?
I would be interested to hear otherwise as I am now trying to choose between an R and loaded GTI. Mpg not a massive factor as I only do about 3K a year mostly in stop start traffic but it would be something to consider if there is a bigger gap. Currently leaning towards GTI PP.
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Appreciate in the US that GTI and R come in 3 options bundles I believe but the R is significantly more than the GTI over there despite lower prices overall. About $15,000 more I think. Both GTI and R are reasonable value I think given the standard spec and performance on offer.
The OP is in Leeds not the US?! What's the price in the US got to do with anything or have I missed some posts?!
The OP is stating that R is now too expensive. My point is that the premium paid here for an R over a GTI and other golfs is low relative to other territories like the US.
See what your saying :smiley:
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We bought the "R" as our main car, with an advertised mpg of 40 mpg. We drove it quite lightly and got approx 30 mpg. It's too soon to compare the GTI pp, as it's our second car but I hope the GTI pp will do mid to high 30's mpg. I realise you do not buy a "R" for mpg. but getting 28 - 30 seemed a bit severe.
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We have had 10 to 12 new Golf GTI's / GTd's over the years from a mk1 1600 GTI to our mk 7.5 PP GTI. In all of those's years we never considered a VR6 or R32 as we thought they were very expensive. What as the best ?
1."R" for out and out performance, poor MPG.
2. mk 7.5 pp all round brilliance.
3. mk 1 1600 GTI nostalgia.
4. Off all the 5 GTD's all round good cars brilliant mpg good performance. Slightly boring compared to the R and the PP
Is the R mpg much worse than the GTI? I thought it was around just 1 mpg worse when driven "sensibly"?
I would be interested to hear otherwise as I am now trying to choose between an R and loaded GTI. Mpg not a massive factor as I only do about 3K a year mostly in stop start traffic but it would be something to consider if there is a bigger gap. Currently leaning towards GTI PP.
MPG would not be a factor at all if I did 3k miles a year. If you are in perpetual gridlock, you might just scrape 20mpg in either car. On my relatively clear 20mile commute, my R did 33-36mpg without being careful and using the full acceleration at a few places. Its 13 miles now (new job), and more like 30-32mpg. My Polo GTI+ does 34-36mpg on the same 13 mile commute. Not much penalty for an extra 100 horses and 4wd. Do remember that in real world driving, lack of real engine braking, heavier use of brakes and other factors make DSG about 10% thirstier than manual in same car.
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Appreciate in the US that GTI and R come in 3 options bundles I believe but the R is significantly more than the GTI over there despite lower prices overall. About $15,000 more I think. Both GTI and R are reasonable value I think given the standard spec and performance on offer.
The OP is in Leeds not the US?! What's the price in the US got to do with anything or have I missed some posts?!
The OP is stating that R is now too expensive. My point is that the premium paid here for an R over a GTI and other golfs is low relative to other territories like the US.
See what your saying :smiley:
The big price differential between GTI and R in the US is because the US GTI has some old tech and the MK6 GTI 210ps engine - the US R is a proper current European spec R with the 300ps engine.
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Not sure if I read it or if I made it up, but doesn't the US spec GTi also make do with torsion beam rear suspension instead of the usual multi-link rear suspension that we get here?
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Not sure if I read it or if I made it up, but doesn't the US spec GTi also make do with torsion beam rear suspension instead of the usual multi-link rear suspension that we get here?
Sounds made up. Can't imagine they'd change something like that. GTI is actually good value in the US. £23k new with current exchange rate for the SE spec. The yanks are even realistic about the mpg. City 25 and Highway 33.
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Are those yank mpgs based on US gallons?
Re an earlier comment, I thought the 7 speed DSG was more economical that the 6 speed man?
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Not sure if I read it or if I made it up, but doesn't the US spec GTi also make do with torsion beam rear suspension instead of the usual multi-link rear suspension that we get here?
From VW’s USA website for the GTI;
Front Suspension; Strut-type with lower control arms, coil springs, telescopic dampers, 24-mm-diameter anti-roll bar
Rear Suspension; Multilink with coil springs, telescopic dampers, 20-mm-diameter anti-roll bar
The yanks are even realistic about the mpg. City 25 and Highway 33.
USA owners would probably sue VW if the mpg claims weren’t realistic - some motor manufacturers have been successfully sued in the US for making false / unrealistic mpg claims.
Are those yank mpgs based on US gallons?
Yes, they are. Figures quoted on VW’s USA website for the GTI;
City; 25 mpg
Highway; 33 mpg
Combined; 28 mpg
Which would equate to a UK mpg of;
City; 30
Highway; 39.6
Combined; 33.6
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City; 25 mpg
Highway; 33 mpg
Combined; 28 mpg
Which would equate to a UK mpg of;
City; 30
Highway; 39.6
Combined; 33.6
Which actually sound more realistic than the UK figures for the more powerful 230ps GTI. How does VW get away with different figures for different countries?
UK from VW for 230ps manual 3dr
Urban 36
Extra Urban 51
Combined 44
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My 2 pence worth, given the discounts to be had on the Mk7 I reckon pound for pound its one of the best value for money cars out there. Standard equipment is plentiful, quality is good, performance is excellent and reliability for me at least has been first class. Bought my brand new Mk7.5 Golf R 5dr DSG approx. 15 months ago for just over £28k and the car according to WBAC (appreciate WBAC will try and knock as much money off as they can) is still worth just north of £24k. Can't argue with that
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If you’re an unenlightened cash buyer then new car prices are eyewateringly high.
We seem to take for granted big discounts now, it’ll be interesting to see what happens with the mk8 post Brexit. The mk7 is quite old and late in the model cycle so discounts are big, yet it’s still a very popular model despite the world and their dog wanting SUV’s now.
Used prices of late low mileage VW’s are holding very firm due to production delays on new cars which makes depreciation fairly low at the moment.
Before the big discounting, years ago VW’s were always poorly specced and expensive compared to direct rivals. People bought them because of their perceived engineering quality which kept used values high meaning actual ownership costs were quite reasonable.
With all the big German manufacturers chasing the volume market now then we expect discounts just the same as you’d find in a Ford dealership.