1992 Karmann Convertible GTI - Mk-1 Golf - Car specs & Questions...

[83GTI-DS]

Hello all,

I have several questions in this post, sorry for the trouble but I couldn't seem to find more information on this in the forum... here we go:

I live in Israel, and was recently offered the following car: 1992 Mk-2 Karmen (Golf) convertible, GTI. It has the original engine in it, and I was told it produces 115 HPs.

My issues with the car are the following:

1) I couldn't get a picture of the car, and travelling to see it is a long way... I'll do it happily for that car, but my main problem is - as far as I know MK-2 was last produced in 1991, meaning this model might actually be an MK-3... I don't like MK-3 anywhere near as much as the MK-2.

This car was imported from the United States, is it possible that there is an MK-2 that was registered as 1992, or is this car for sure an MK-3? The person who's selling it seems to know a lot about Golfs, and he assured me it was an MK-2 (or at least the equivalent of such in a "Karmen" version).

2) What exactly does Karmen mean? What's different about this car, than a regular cabrio GTI MK-2 made around that time? Any link to a resource, or a simple explanation on this would be very appreciated.

3) I was told by another person who's in the know that many times people refer to Cabrios with a 1.8 liter engine as "GTI", and that there is no Cabrio GTI. What's the deal on this one - were there any Mk-2 Cabrio GTIs made during that time?

4) The car has just been re-sprayed with its original paint, and a new top will be installed on it within a few days. It also has new low-cut 195/50/15 tyres, with new 15" rims. Since there is barely any demand for thi car in Israel, the owner wants a siginficantly lower amount of money for the car than the actual worth in Israel for similar models.

What should I be looking for when examining the car, except for the obvious (accidents, engine condition, and such) - are there any pointers you could give me based on the information above?

Thank you very much for your time in advance, it is most appreciated!

Adi.

[K REG MK 2 GTI]

i dident think they made a mk 2 convertable but the age issue i have a rare k reg mk 2 produced in 1992

[...joe]

if its an import then it may have been registered late or something to account for the k reg. if the guy seems to know about golfs then he surely would know if its a 2 or a 3.

karmen is the factory right? like golf people go on about wolsburg i believe karman is another factory that are regarded as better than wolfsburg. corrado's came out of the karman factory and i've heard that they were all made by meticulous nerds!! which has to be a good thing!

don't know much about cabrios, so couldn't help you out on common faults engines etc, but as with any car check for panel fit, blue smoke etc to tell the condition of the car.

much more than that i cant help you i'm afraid

[vaughn]

hi, i would definately say its a mark 1 as i know of a couple of 1992 cabriolets running about, karmen is a company in germany who volkswagen commissioned to, improve/design/update various models throughout the history of volkswagen, the cabriolet being one of them, the gti comes from most of the later cabriolets having the same engine as a golf gti 8v, so it is a gti in theory. hope this helps .
by the way its not a mark 2 but a mark 1 as all cabriolets up to 91/92 were based on the mk1 golf

[gibby]

Adi,

Is it the same shape as the one in my signature as they have only ever made cabs on mk1 (like mine) or mk3. Never a mk2. It is possible that it is a mk1 and registered in 1992, you can even get some mk1 cabs registered in 1993 (as an L reg in the UK) but these are very very rare. gti89 has answered your question about Karmen. Mine is cabriolet and is a GTi, the mk1s that weren't GTi's were called Clippers, some earlier cabs were called GLi but they were still seen as GTi' really.

As for what to look for, the usual stuff but check that the roof is good and does not leak, best thing to do is take it for a jet wash and see if there is any water that gets in, check the carpets to see if they are damp (but does it actually rain in Israel  ), check for blue smoke out the back, in fact, read this website, tells you all you want to know http://www.matey-matey.com/golf_buying_guide.shtml

If you need anymore info then let me know and I'll see what I can find out for you. Good luck. 

[83GTI-DS]

Thanks a lot for the great answers

Gibby - I was wondering if you have any feedback regarding the driving experience on your cabrio GTI (how many HPs does the engine produce btw? I was told that this Cabrio GTI's engine is an 8V and produces 115 HPs - how much does yours produce), as opposed to a normal MK1 GTI?

The driving experience on a 1983 Golf GTI was very much to my liking. Should I expect more or less the same from this car?

What exactly are the differences between a normal GTI, and a Cabrio GTI - the engine is obviously the same, is the entire car (except for the top) similar? Also, how much does a cabrio GTI weigh compared to a normal GTI (an MK1 should weigh around 840 KG if I remember correctly)?

Thank you very much again for your time!

[...joe]

by the way its not a mark 2 but a mark 1 as all cabriolets up to 91/92 were based on the mk1 golf

yeah but i knew what i meant!!! and what he meant so i thought i'd go with it!

[ridgers]

Karmann is a german coachbuilders and have worked with various manufacturers (The escort convertible and renault 19 convertible are both examples that spring to mind) but karmann used to concentrate most of their output building VW products.

VW had links with VW going back to the days of the original beetle convertible and used them well for the Karmann ghia so VW got got karmann to build the scirocco as it was a a lower volume car and they didnt want to take the risk of reorganising the production line at wolfsburg to produce it. Dont forget it was built before the original golf and they were unsure as to the reaction of a new VW on an otherwise air cooled public.

They continued building the Golf convertible and the corrado as these are quite low volume cars and Karmann pratically hand assembled the finished cars.

TO check whether it is a karmann car you check the chassis number. After the model year letter is another letter. W refers to a car made in wolfsburg. K refers to a car from Karmann.

As said previously its gonna be a MK1 convertible as they used the shape up until the MK3.

If its a normal standard MK1 then it should produce 112BHP.

Check the engine code. its probably a DX and this is the 1781cc 112BHP one as fitted to the english spec cars and most probably basic fodder for the rest of the markets the car was aimed at.

[gibby]

Gibby - I was wondering if you have any feedback regarding the driving experience on your cabrio GTI (how many HPs does the engine produce btw? I was told that this Cabrio GTI's engine is an 8V and produces 115 HPs - how much does yours produce), as opposed to a normal MK1 GTI?

Adi, I love driving mine, brings a smile to my face every time I get in it, it's not the nicest car to drive, the brakes aren't great and the clutch is very stiff compared to other makes of cars that I've driven, I've never driven a mk1 hard top so can't say how much difference there is between the two but I will say that if this car checks out ok then buy it, I promise you that you will not be disapponted.  As ridgers says, the mk1 gti is supposed to push out about 112bhp, it's not going to be as fast as a mk1 hardtop as it will be slightly more heavier. 

[83GTI-DS]

Thanks for the informative post ridgers.

Gibby - I hope it'll check out ok, I still have to go through a full monh before I could buy it (gotta get next month's salary...  ), I hope nobody buys it until then... The last one I was about to buy (hard top) was snatched just a day after I took it for a test drive  .

Do you have any stats on that car as far as its weight, and perhaps its 0-60 rating (I'll be fine with the stock specs on the 0-60 - as I could compare them in general to the stock specs of the hard top GTI)? That would be very useful. Other than the extra weight (whatever amount that is), there shouldn't be anything different in the car, right? Same Anti-roll bars, same chassis overall, same fuel injection system etc.?

Thanks again - if we need to move this to the MK-1 forum now that I know this isn't an MK-2, that's fine - let me know and I'll continue it there