GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk6 => Topic started by: hms on 31 December 2013, 16:54
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Hi, stumbled on the forum by chance googling my problem and see I am not alone.
09 plate MK 6 GTI 48,000 ex demo owned from 6 months old and fully VWSH at same dealer.
Has been absolutely fine until I drove home on 23rd Dec - it started really rough and stopped again immediately. RAC towed it to VW dealer where I bought it from. Have had to authorise a few hours of diagnostic work. Dealership have said timing chain failure but state they think tensioner is ok (not sure they have stripped it down that much yet). They do not want to know - they have called VWCS on my behalf they got back and said no goodwill as out of warranty.
I have reported it to VW but have to wait till after NY for response, quoted £6400 for new engine and labour. Been reading others experiences - as mine is out of warranty did it take quite a bit of persistance / threats of legal action etc before they come around?. I am panicking as no way can I find 6k right now. No manufacturer should consider it acceptable for an engine to fail at this point in a car's life. My mates Golf from his 17th birthday 15 years ago is still going strong at 150,000k - I thought I was paying a premium for something dependable.
Any advice (or shoulder to cry on!!) Appreciated.
Howard
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Do a good google on timing chain tensioner failure, esprecially on here.
VW do know about it, despite what they initially say.
Good luck!
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is the drivetrain warranty not 60k sure someone will know but I am sure it is :smiley:
http://www.vw.com/en/owners/parts-and-accessories/protection/limited-warranty.html
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If you get no joy threaten to goto bbc watchdog and autoexpress with the details from the sticky thread.
Also google search for tensioner failure mk6 gti .
Theres a few threads running on the golfmk6.com forum in american and also one running on an Australian forum. Theres probably more but im hittting language barriers.
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There's a dedicated thread on Briskoda for the same problem:
http://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/266114-18tsi-and-20tsi-engine-failures/page-11
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Thats pretty interesting about the 5 year powertrain warranty..
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There's a dedicated thread on Briskoda for the same problem:
http://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/266114-18tsi-and-20tsi-engine-failures/page-11
Thanks for that been over and had a read. :smiley:
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Just a quick one i've heard there will be no recall on this as its not a "safety" issue apparently as it happens from cold anybody heard any diff?
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Well, a bit of an update here!! Unfortunately the resolution is not going so well :angry: Managed to finally get a courtesy car yesterday after several letters to dealership, and VWCS. Engine has been stripped down 'timing chain has slipped but the tensioner is not responsible' I do not care what has failed - my GTi should not have engine failure at this point in its life (4.5 years, 47,000 miles). I have been told no 'factory goodwill' spoken with VWCS who said they will sort something out - 1 week later the deal on the table is No contribution from VW, dealership will subsidise the repair to a final cost to me £3500. I was furious (but did not go ballistic - I want these guys to help me) told them that was not acceptable car sold to me was not fit for purpose etc etc. Waiting for further call.
Not sure how to play things - anyone have any experience of the law or should I walk away £3500 worse off and learn a very valuable lesson re: VAG group. Its all a bit disappointing given some people's outcomes with VWCS.
Thanks for the advice and I would urge other 09/59/10 GTi owners to think hard about their future!!
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Well, a bit of an update here!! Unfortunately the resolution is not going so well :angry: Managed to finally get a courtesy car yesterday after several letters to dealership, and VWCS. Engine has been stripped down 'timing chain has slipped but the tensioner is not responsible' I do not care what has failed - my GTi should not have engine failure at this point in its life (4.5 years, 47,000 miles). I have been told no 'factory goodwill' spoken with VWCS who said they will sort something out - 1 week later the deal on the table is No contribution from VW, dealership will subsidise the repair to a final cost to me £3500. I was furious (but did not go ballistic - I want these guys to help me) told them that was not acceptable car sold to me was not fit for purpose etc etc. Waiting for further call.
Not sure how to play things - anyone have any experience of the law or should I walk away £3500 worse off and learn a very valuable lesson re: VAG group. Its all a bit disappointing given some people's outcomes with VWCS.
Thanks for the advice and I would urge other 09/59/10 GTi owners to think hard about their future!!
not good at all my question would be why has the timing chain slipped if it has full service history don't they check the chain and tensioner has it stretched was there a lack of oil pressure problem I'm no mechanic but I sometimes think vw don't employ any either I hope you get some resolution soon all the best Charlie :smiley:
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Agree with the above post, they need to explain how the chain can possibly slip while under tension (the job of the tensioner assembly if it's working correctly)
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The route I went down when having the argument was "so what's the service interval on the tensioner or chain" they'll tell you it's not a service item as it should last the life of the car and BOOM! You have them? It worked for me.
Why not look through the sticky and see if there's a dealer who has shown decent service who is nearby and see what they say.
Good luck!
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My GTI was out of warranty as well when my tensioner went, but VWCS honoured the full VW service history and agreed to replace it
As above, I'd question the judgement of your engine assessor. Sounds like an excuse to save the garage forking out anything at all
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Just emailed watchdog probably won't go anywhere but stories like this really pi&% me off! It's a joke!
Keep pushing mate they will cave great tactic written previous with the non serviceable item, its actually visually checked at 120,000 but is still meant to be the life of the engine, they haven't got a leg to stand on.
Also didn't you buy this VW approved?
If so then I would ask why the tensioner was NOT replaced before the car was sold due the fact it is a known fault a revised tensioner should of been installed. I got mine done for a good price in the end and it wasn't even in warranty AND I bought private so keep at them..
Good luck, keep us update!
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I may be wrong on this, but I thought the tensioner had a ratchet system in place to avoid it retracting when the oil pressure that is used to pump it up drained away , generally overnight.
The fact that the garage was able to demonstrate it being pushed back in sounds as though the ratchet system has failed, hence chain jumping and destrpying your engine. Talk to VW customer services again.
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Go to Trading Standards
I have said in other threads that NO ONE should be paying any amount of money towards this repair
The whole situation stinks
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Just emailed watchdog probably won't go anywhere but stories like this really pi&% me off! It's a joke!
Keep pushing mate they will cave great tactic written previous with the non serviceable item, its actually visually checked at 120,000 but is still meant to be the life of the engine, they haven't got a leg to stand on.
Also didn't you buy this VW approved?
If so then I would ask why the tensioner was NOT replaced before the car was sold due the fact it is a known fault a revised tensioner should of been installed. I got mine done for a good price in the end and it wasn't even in warranty AND I bought private so keep at them..
Good luck, keep us update!
VW will say it is not a known fault........
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What, even when you show them the tech bulletin?
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Yeah probably. It will be an improvement not a "problem"
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Well the VWCS rep my son spoke to was aware of it and paid for everything. It appears that there is a numpty at the VW garage thats causing the aggro here.
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Been reading about these timing chain tensioner failures recently and starting to get the fear :cry:
How common are these faults? mines a 2010 mk6 gti (may build?) 42000 miles on clock
Also is upgradinng to the updated chain tensioner a definitive solution? any info helpful thanks! :smiley:
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After reading all post about this issue, i'm wondering why renewing the warranty is not the easiest financial option for most owners, esp those 2010 cars that are just out of the 3yr std warranty, I know from my mk5 experience that the renewal price is pretty cheap,mine was £260 something to renew the all component comprehensive warranty,compared to £473 for a new policy.
If it was my TSI engine car I would renew without hesitation, a lot less worry than wondering when I would have all this grief.
food for thought.
Mind you, still not good of VW to be so negative regarding this situation, warranty or not.
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However it's worth noting some other guys grief with VW warranty, the small print DOES NOT COVER diagnostics! This fault in particular that charge is anywhere from £800 - 1500 dealership dependant!
Little more food for thought!
Still cheaper than £6,000!
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However it's worth noting some other guys grief with VW warranty, the small print DOES NOT COVER diagnostics! This fault in particular that charge is anywhere from £800 - 1500 dealership dependant!
Little more food for thought!
Still cheaper than £6,000!
Interesting... after I type this im off to dig out my warranty booklet for a read up of the small print.
I have never been charged a diagnostic fee for warranty work, I was under the assumption that the diagnostic fee could/would be £xxx but in the event that it is proven a component covered by warranty has failed then diagnostic fee is covered by the warranty also.
If that is indeed the case then some VW stealers need a swift kick in the Boll*x.
Thinking about it, it may well be at dealer discretion, for example, 18months or so ago I had a Running issue with my ed30, went to a local to home VW dealer who confirmed the fault after a road test, then after a scan there was no fault stored,when I collected the car they tried to charge me £180 (£60 x 3) for diagnostic work, for three faults that were logged and unrelated to my original issue.
Needless to say I told them where to go and only paid for one £60.
I then booked it with another Dealer(local to work) who diagnosed and repaired for FOC,all covered by VW Warranty,have used them ever since and never been charged for fault finding.
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Well, I think I have got as far as I can with the settlement negotiation. Have managed to get VW to contribute.
Bottom line and agreed deal £1500 new engine parts and labour. Not ideal but I just want it fixed and then I am off - have put deposit down on a 1 series. Valued VW customer - no, former VW customer - yes.
Thanks for all the helpful advice.
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Dont blaim you.
I watched a program a few months back about the demise of BMC and how they treated customers badly, made poor quality cars and used customers as testers. VW fetured heavily in the program saying how there quality and customer service grew there share of the market and basically killed BMC. VW is now BMC and bettter watch their back if someone like kia get their adverts and acts together.
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Dont blaim you.
I watched a program a few months back about the demise of BMC and how they treated customers badly, made poor quality cars and used customers as testers. VW fetured heavily in the program saying how there quality and customer service grew there share of the market and basically killed BMC. VW is now BMC and bettter watch their back if someone like kia get their adverts and acts together.
I dont know if its VW as a whole or dealer to dealer. My experience was great, they helped immensely.
who's to say Portsmouth BWM garage is any better?
And i dont want to jump to any conclusions as ive only glanced over the list, but are people up North getting better deals? As generally most of the customer service up here is very friendly and they really want to help you...
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When VW supply a new engine, what does it comprise of? For instance does it come with new water pump, inlet manifold, throttle body etc?
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I'd like confirmation of this!
I think it's just the engine everything just gets put back on. One of my foam pipe cover at the front of the engine was ripped and this is still there so kind of confirms this part is the same. I think I'm referring to the manifold!
Sorry don't really have a clue about engines, slowly learning though..
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When VW supply a new engine, what does it comprise of? For instance does it come with new water pump, inlet manifold, throttle body etc?
It is likely only the block and head. Ancilleries won't be included, they will fit those from the old engine
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pity.. :whistle:
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Dont blaim you.
I watched a program a few months back about the demise of BMC and how they treated customers badly, made poor quality cars and used customers as testers. VW fetured heavily in the program saying how there quality and customer service grew there share of the market and basically killed BMC. VW is now BMC and bettter watch their back if someone like kia get their adverts and acts together.
I don't know if its VW as a whole or dealer to dealer. My experience was great, they helped immensely.
who's to say Portsmouth BWM garage is any better?
And i don't want to jump to any conclusions as ive only glanced over the list, but are people up North getting better deals? As generally most of the customer service up here is very friendly and they really want to help you...
My Dealership seemed to do their best after a bit badgering to help me - I would happily buy car from them, I think I am more disappointed in VW Group.
I am sure BMW might not be any different but I think my lesson learned will be to take the extra year warranty and change cars before their 4th birthday. I am gutted as I normally do that but was squeezing another year out of the Golf to save a bit of money toward the next one. My mate still drives the Golf he got for his 17th Birthday (18 years ago!!) so I thought they were indestructible.
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It's this new engine the EA888 suppose just teething problems, couldn't go wrong with a belt as long as it was changed. This should now be resolved in the newer cars but time will tell a 2012 car won't be due to break till 2015 so if these stories die away then the issue is fixed.
Which I hope so for the MK7 is using the same engine!
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I don't know if its VW as a whole or dealer to dealer. My experience was great, they helped immensely.
who's to say Portsmouth BWM garage is any better?
And i don't want to jump to any conclusions as i've only glanced over the list, but are people up North getting better deals? As generally most of the customer service up here is very friendly and they really want to help you...
After my own extortion experience from the dealer who dealt with my failure I believe its more down to the dealer rather than
VW as a whole - reasoned with the vastly varying prices being quoted and charged to repair.
Some dealers insist on a partial strip down after diagnostics shows the error code - some don't. Those that do obviously then charge. Some dealers refer the error code to VW Germany and without any further confirmations right at the start have a new F.O.C. engine on the table ( paid for by VW Germany and not the dealer ).
The non chargeable F.O.C. replacement engine is then seemingly used as the carrot by the dealer to then charge for the labour time at what ever they feel they can get away with and with my experience they decide on a customers naivety.
Confirmed to me by VWCS after checking with the VW Germany the allotted labour time is 14 hours to take out and replace and engine. ( The car my garage was recovered to quoted 22 hours and wanted £2350 for labour. ) The exact same work was then quoted by another dealer ( Importantly owned by a different franchise parent company ) using the F.O.C engine at the correct
time charge on 14 hours for a sum of £1150.00.
Exactly the same work using the same free issue parts and a price difference saving of a massive £1200 !
All this using from Day 1 UK VWCS who despite all the overwhelming evidence and facts could not make the original dealer offer a correct price for the work involved - only after 2 weeks of aggro and with the lower quote and my decision to move
garages to repair did the price come down.
After the disgraceful episode was concluded I followed this up with the strongest letter possible to the franchise owner of the dealership - this resulted in the price then being reduced to a final repair bill of £470.00.
I fully believe the situation is being milked and some owners being completely ripped off by dealers seeing a golden opportunity as no direction given or offered by VW Germany....
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This again reinforces my decision to leave the VW brand.
Utterly disgusting behaviour, which I'm surprised people take! An engine failing after 3-5 years is unacceptable.
Good luck to all who have this issue, I feel for you!