Author Topic: what happend to p11jon  (Read 8686 times)

Offline PenguinGTI

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Re: what happend to p11jon
« Reply #80 on: 11 May 2012, 17:49 »

by afford I mean, actually afford without thinking about it. If the R cost you exactly the same per month as your current ride, which would you opt for?

I find it a shame that many people will grow up and never realise there is no replacement for displacement  :undecided:

Of course i would think about it,  if i had an endless money pot i wouldnt be buying a VW in the first place lol

That is a difficult choice though & i am still tempted by an R at some point but in this day & age saving money is never a bad thing :)

R32UK's point is that, for those who can truly afford such cars, there is no "but...".

Turbocharging and Supercharging are techniques developed by manufacturers to extract additional performance from engines. Most commonly this has taken the shape of smaller forced induction blocks (e.g. 1.4 TSI) replacing larger naturally aspirated engines (e.g. 3.2 V6). Of course forced induction can be in itself very entertaining and offer great driving pleasure but, for the most part, the purpose of forced induction is to produce smaller capacity engines with higher outputs - in other words more efficient engines.

For those who hold displacement dear, there is truly no replacement.

Aside from the modern era of forced induction, the most recent attempts by manufacturers to replace displacement took the form of highly tuning a smaller block. A good example is the Variable valve Timing and Electronic Lift Control (VTEC) as found on most Honda engines (and the VVT equivalent on Toyota derived engines).

All of these efforts yield varying results upon the car's characteristics. Displacement gives a huge, lazy power to any engine offering high torque output in relation to the horsepower. VTEC systems essentially squeeze every last bit of horsepower from the engine which often results in a very high horsepower figure but a severely lacking torque figure. Forced induction seems to offer a middle ground between these two polar opposites offering a blend of horsepower and torque which can be tailored to suit the car, manufacturer or market.

Broadly speaking, everyone who buys a car now looks at the performance of the engine (I don't mean performance as in 0-60). Torque delivery, horsepower and fuel efficiency are all elements of an engine's performance and people simply choose the blend which suits their needs best.

But for the purest engine experience, displacement has no replacement. All other methods are simply attempts to artificially recreate the benefits of displacement.

 :smiley:

Offline Ess_Three

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Re: what happend to p11jon
« Reply #81 on: 11 May 2012, 18:21 »
Well put.

The linear power delivery and throttle response you get with the best NA decent capacity engines just can't be reproduced with FI.
RS4 4.2 V8 or a 911s 3.6/3.8 Flat 6 are two fine examples...stonking engines.

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Offline R32UK

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Re: what happend to p11jon
« Reply #82 on: 11 May 2012, 18:22 »
Well put Mr P! :cool:

I think a good example of this is BMW and their twin turbo engines which attempt to provide as linear power delivery as possible. They even have tri-turbo engines now doing the same thing!

Offline Ess_Three

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Re: what happend to p11jon
« Reply #83 on: 11 May 2012, 18:38 »
I think a good example of this is BMW and their twin turbo engines which attempt to provide as linear power delivery as possible. They even have tri-turbo engines now doing the same thing!

Especially on diesel engines.

BMWs diesel engines have been ahead of everyone else for years...that 335D engine is astounding.
VAG are waaaaay behind the likes of that.

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Offline F17BAD

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Re: what happend to p11jon
« Reply #84 on: 11 May 2012, 18:55 »
R32's are just too slow for what they are, and use too much fuel
Mk4 version was the best, infact id call it a classic already but unfortunately it's awesome looks have been tarnished by all the chav look a likes

All just my opinions of course

I find its a shame that the main factor in which car/engine is better boils down to cost. Lets take cost out of the equation and the R32 mk5 is still the quickest/best sounding/best handling golf out there (excluding the .:R).

Im not even going to entertain a conversation about the golf 4 being better than the 5 as the majority of people on this forum are stuck in a time warp. The 4 is so far behind the 5 its not even funny. I think the fact that mk3 owners chose to pick on mk4 owners says it all really.  :lipsrsealed:

Im not talking about the cost, i mean for the size of the engine and all the hype (mainly off owners) they are just noting special at all
id choose a mk5 GTI over a mk5 R32 all day long, R32 is just so weak IMO.. (yes the Mk5 version)  
i don't know what the figures are on paper but id say in the real world a GTI mk5 would piss all over a R32 in the street, get in a ED30 and it ups the game even more

Id agree the Mk4 is no where near as good as the mk5, (in GTI formats) the mk3 was poor out the box too in 8v format but if you look at the other cars of same vintage as the MK3 GTI, such as GTE astra 16v 156bhp but does not handle at all, RS2000 (again 150bhp) the 16v mk3 was on point with those... better ? i dunno, but looking at old magazines (can upload if need be) the GTI 16v golf gets car of year... 1993

  


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Offline R32UK

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Re: what happend to p11jon
« Reply #85 on: 11 May 2012, 20:24 »
Im not talking about the cost, i mean for the size of the engine and all the hype (mainly off owners) they are just noting special at all
id choose a mk5 GTI over a mk5 R32 all day long, R32 is just so weak IMO.. (yes the Mk5 version)  
i don't know what the figures are on paper but id say in the real world a GTI mk5 would piss all over a R32 in the street, get in a ED30 and it ups the game even more



The R32 pisses all over the GTI and ED30 in real life and more so on a track... . I think it was over 2secs just on the TG track (ED30). I have owned all three and can confirm the R32 is quicker flat out andd much quicker in everyday driving. I love how people just follow the myth that the R32 is big and slow..


if you had taken any time to actually drive the car or read any of the reviews then you would hear virtually every pro driver rave on about the performance and handling. People need to get out there and drive cars rather than rate them by stats :wink: :cool:

p.s. the R32 takes a while to learn how to drive.  :cool:

Offline Diamond Hell

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Re: what happend to p11jon
« Reply #86 on: 11 May 2012, 20:57 »
Oh dear, R32UK.  You haven't come across dear Brad's 'real world' before, have you?

In Brad's 'real world' whatever Brad says is faster.

In Brad's mind, which is where Brad's 'real world' exists.

It's a convenient construct that allows Brad to continue to argue black is white in total ignorance of any inconvenient facts.

You are unable to win this argument because anything you say will be countered by 'ah but in the real world...'
Just because you're offended doesn't make you right.

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Offline Kerrse

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Re: what happend to p11jon
« Reply #87 on: 11 May 2012, 22:03 »

by afford I mean, actually afford without thinking about it. If the R cost you exactly the same per month as your current ride, which would you opt for?

I find it a shame that many people will grow up and never realise there is no replacement for displacement  :undecided:

Of course i would think about it,  if i had an endless money pot i wouldnt be buying a VW in the first place lol

That is a difficult choice though & i am still tempted by an R at some point but in this day & age saving money is never a bad thing :)

R32UK's point is that, for those who can truly afford such cars, there is no "but...".


 :smiley:

I understood his point  :grin:

My point being was if you don't have to say "but" why the f**k would you buy a Golf in the first place it's an R32 not a Aston
 
I get an average of 50mpg & proud of it, actually have hit 65mpg when driving to work  :grin:

Offline Kerrse

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Re: what happend to p11jon
« Reply #88 on: 11 May 2012, 22:14 »
And surely the point being about the edition 35 is with a stage one remap it would be 277 bhp so would then surely beat the R32 that is the joy of turbo charged engines great improvements for not a lot of money


If you have plenty then A stage 2 would take it to 321bhp, a stage 3 up to 362bhp.


Offline AudiA8Quattro

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Re: what happend to p11jon
« Reply #89 on: 11 May 2012, 22:51 »
And plenty of heat soak  :grin:
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