Author Topic: The ICE Bible  (Read 35756 times)

Offline Diesel_head

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Re: The ICE Bible
« Reply #20 on: 11 March 2005, 23:23 »
I found out when i started driving that i could pick up equipment off EBay, but there is a lot of sh!t on there.. If it isn't by a name you know then search the Net to find more info, if there isn't any then don't get it!

         Next most people upgrade the system with a CD head unit, they are only about ?60 on Ebay for last years Sony ones with EQ7 and 2 sets of pre-outs.

         After a head unit you need speakers and probably a sub or 2 and amps and of course decent wires.
       
     first mistake i made was buying cheap wiring kits, 12gauge, not any good at all... so i wasted ?30 on 2 sets, eventually i bought a 4Guage kit. I advise that you actually either buy one of them as they come with decent speaker wire or get it all! separately,  I have now spent about ?130 on wiring but it sounds a lot lot better than that original ?30's worth.

      When you get your speakers go to Halfords or something to try them out and then find them at a good price on the Net. If you can only afford one set then you really should buy Separates, for the doors. rather than 6x9's on the parcel shelf as you will have far better listening quality, the mids and highs will go right in to your ears. Obviously if you can then upgrade the ones in the rear doors or get some in the parcel shelf as well.

       You now want a sub or two. I've not needed to upgrade my 2 10" subs at all, i made my own box but the sound was not as good as the original so i put them back in.. i reccommend one sub for quality and 2 for lots of bass don't bother with three as with a decent amp you can get a far higher output... I've herd systems with 2 12" subs that weren't as loud or as tight sounding as my 2 10's. so really save that money for a decent amp.

      You now want to get an Amp, if you can then get two. a 4 Channel one not really more than 100watts per Channel  as you might blow the speakers if there not up to it. make sure it is a good one so you don't have to upgrade it later, i need a better one as mine was ?50 second hand and a little knackered.
     For the subs you want a class D mono amp really but there not cheap compared to a 2channel one thats bridged, like i said it's well worth it, you get a bass controller and if you get a decent one you can power both subs off it, mine is 1000Watts RMS and i got the shop down to ?230, it's a legacy,i wanted a Vibe MB4 but they pursuaded me to get that...
     
        If you want your system to play for any decent period of time at a constant level then Get a power Cap! i got mine for ?60! and that was a sh!t make but it looks OK and is 1.5Farads so it almost is capable of as much as my system can kickout, therefor try and match up to the power of the system with the amount of Farads on the Cap.

       My system when i started driving cost about ?300. i was 17 and this was about a year ago.
                 Now it's cost a bit over ?1000.... lol... more than the car it used to be in.

         so as long as you get the right stuff in the 1st place then you will be happy with it... buy a system to upgrade later.. because you will want to.... like if you by an amp and one set of speakers make sure you can add another set to the amp later!.
                      thats my opinion on car stereos... If anyone has questions, wants pictures or wants to add to this then go for it.
                               Josh

Offline stuart86

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Re: The ICE Bible
« Reply #21 on: 12 March 2005, 03:17 »
not a bad read

but must stress, if you have subs in the boot then don't bother with 6x9's in the parcel shelfs

the reason for this is the air movement in the boot causing pressure on the back of the 6x9's thus causing distorion

amp a set of component speakers up front, as this is where u want most of you sound staging

Offline Diesel_head

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Re: The ICE Bible
« Reply #22 on: 12 March 2005, 12:42 »
On the note of having speakers on the parcel shelf.. i'd like to know the physics behind that.. or a more technical explanation... would i be better selling my 6x9's Vibe QB69 if anyone wants them. and buy another set of 6.5" componants for the rear doors? it makes sence.. and dynamat..... anybody fancy posting an article about using that.


? ? ? ? ? ? ?cheers
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?josh
« Last Edit: 12 March 2005, 12:43 by Diesel_head »

Offline Dizzie

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Re: The ICE Bible
« Reply #23 on: 12 March 2005, 23:40 »
I just installed a DVD headunit with 7" screen and amp'd all my speakers and the sound is crystal clear throughout all the volume range
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Offline stuart86

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Re: The ICE Bible
« Reply #24 on: 13 March 2005, 01:03 »
You will often see a lot of people using 6x9?s and subs and boasting about there systems loudness, this is all very well if you just want sheer volume and no quality. What they don?t know is that having the combination of 6x9?s and subs is not only playing games with the sound staging in your car but could also damage the units themselves!
 

Point 1 Max Excursion Limits vs Air Pressure! 

This is probably the most important point out the two.
Have you ever put your head in someone?s boot whilst they have the sub banging out some tunes? You can feel the air moving around and the pressure of the subs is normally pretty large!
This is as the sub creates a band pass box using the air inside a closed boot, hence why most cars without 6x9's sound better inside the car then with the boot open!
Now 6x9's have what is called a maximum excursion limit this is how far the cone can move up and down.
With them in the shelf and the sub in the boot you can imagine the amount of air pressure being put on the 6x9s. With the sub moving so much air it will push and pull the cone of the 6x9's causing them to not sound right but also moving them past there excursion limits and can cause them to break.

Point 2 Sound Stage

Sound stage is very important in the car as to be honest you don?t want to be able to hear which direction the sound is actually coming from, you will want it to sound like the car is filled with volume.
You sit in the front of the car? correct? Yes! So why would you want to have all this lovely sound in the front of your car only to install 6x9's and have the sound dragged into the back of the car?!


I normally give this example to try and prove me point: When you go to music concert you don?t stand there with your back to the stage do you?!
You want to try and have the music in front of you so it?s like a mini band playing on your dash board.

In larger cars then some rear fill maybe required so a pair of coaxial speakers in the rear door cards can help. But if your fronts are good enough then they should be able to fill the car!


not my own explanation, but it saves me typing it all out ;)

Offline Dizzie

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Re: The ICE Bible
« Reply #25 on: 13 March 2005, 08:59 »
if you do have rear speakers make sure the tweeters are pointing backwards else you'll hear them in the front too and that'lla ruin the stage too.

personally 6x9's are a waste of time. a decent 17cm setup will be louder and sound 100 times better. I took my 6x9's out and you couldn't tell the difference. now I just run 13cm comps in the front off a MTX 4244 amp and a JL 10" sub off a Genny ST100 in the boot. that's it. and it sounds crystal clear and spot on staging wise.
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Offline Diesel_head

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Re: The ICE Bible
« Reply #26 on: 13 March 2005, 13:25 »
Wow, that did actrually explain it as perfectly as i needed.. i am putting the origional parcerl shelf back in... lucky i didn't cut that up, what am i gonna do with the extra 2 channels i have doing nothing then?... you said about the soundstage, so if you took out the 6x9's and put them in a different location it might work... however i also prefur the sound of my 17cm componants...
                   I think it needs to be known how stupid it is putting speakers in the parcel shelf is... surely they would have put them in the car when it was made if it were usefull... but then they dont put in subs ect... :laugh:

                  Last thing, dynamat... you said about putting it in the sub box. is that worth the cost? and where else if on a budget should i put it.... bare in mind that i am selling my car.

Offline Diesel_head

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Re: The ICE Bible
« Reply #27 on: 13 March 2005, 13:36 »
I've thoght of another important thing, OHMS... make sure your speakers are running at the right amount of OHMS... well i think this ids correct... either 1,2,4 or 8 i would say is normal but nearly all speakers are 4 OHMS.. most amps can run at 2 and this is when u bridge 2 channels together so in theory you get double the powerbut it's actually usually a bit less.
           i was thinking that i could bridge the two lefts  and then the two rights on the amp to use for one speaker and then get them set-up so the amp is hardly running....

                    to put the theory in to a practical situation surely somthings going to blow? 4OHM speakers and 2OHMs out of amp.... is that a bad combination?

Offline Dizzie

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Re: The ICE Bible
« Reply #28 on: 29 April 2005, 16:34 »
buying off the net

yes it's cheaper. obviously. but if it goes wrong then expect a load of hassle. Plus you'll have to pay for the postage to send it back and it'll take ages to get sorted out.

if you buy from a shop you spend a little bit extra, but you get a lot better service. Plus shops will always give you advice on what to buy. with a website you basically have to find out the info yourself and there's no way of listening to a set of speakers before you buy them. If you're really nice and a shop may let you try a sub in your car before you buy it.

yes I do work for a shop so I am bias, but we had a customer in the other week. Had bought a kenwood MASK headunit online and it had gone wrong. they just told her to take it into a kenwood dealer. didn't want to know. So we sent it off for repair and it cost her £70.
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Offline GolfGTiMk216LoveIT

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Re: The ICE Bible
« Reply #29 on: 14 December 2005, 22:03 »
i dont know if this will help but if you are going to do an install save time and buy the best go into audio shops and ask there opinions and judge for youself. after a few audio shops you should hear the same names cropping up such as phoenix gold and jl audio and many others. From my personal experience i have found these two makes to be the absolute dadies when performing crisp sound. i have a phoenix 250watt rms amp running one phoenix gold sub in my boot and a 200watt rms pheonix amp running some components in the front and it is more than loud enough plus the sound you get is crystal clear. my friend has the same set up as me in his mk3 but swap everything with jbl and there apparent watt rating and it sounds absolutly sh1t. oh and yeah there is no point buying the best audio equipment and then not buying the right wiring otherwise you will not get enough power to the amps. oh and run speakers in on a mid volume for the fist 30 hours! found that out 2 my cost :laugh: (oh and im sorry if u have jbl set up no offence intended)