GolfGTIforum.co.uk

Model specific boards => Golf mk6 => Topic started by: RocketRossUK on 18 December 2013, 17:01

Title: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: RocketRossUK on 18 December 2013, 17:01
Below is a list of people who's GTI mk6 golfs have suffered from the Timing Chain tensioner Fault.
Please leave comment below for age of car (plate) and Mileage (i know this doesn't effect the problem but good to know) and also a rough date of failure.

This is what you should listen for: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UF4hyTLVCOQ

Please leave comments on missing info and i will update regularly:


        NAME                      MILEAGE                AGE                 FAILURE DATE                            DEAL

1.    Rossc0                      42,000                   59 plate                8 June 2013                            New engine £196

2.    Jimmgc51                 56,000                  09 plate              September 2013                 New engine  £675=100%Parts 50%Labour

3.    Obbzi                        52,000                 59 plate              November 2013                     New engine 100% parts 100% labour

4.    Poached                    59,635                 59 plate              16 October 2013                  New engine  £670
 
5,    GS Wax                     35,000                 09/59                 August 2010

6.    PenguinGTI                63,000                 59 plate              June 2013

7.    Rolfe                         30, 000                09/59                   June 2012                           New engine under warrenty

8.    R32UK                      30, 000              59 plate               May 2012                             New engine under warrenty

9.    LittleJon                     50,000                 59 plate             April 2013                           New engine  £1000=100% parts 70% Labour
 
10.  Jimmymature            32,000                 09 plate            November 2013                    100% parts 50% Labour

11.  Spiderman                34,000                59 plate            September 2013                  New engine+turbo etc 70% £713.93 +Vat     

12.  C3PO                       50, 000                59 plate            December 2013                    Chain, tensioner, guides, bearing replaced

13. RocketRossUK          53, 000               59 plate           December 2013                   Chain and tensioner replacement - Free

14.  MikeT                         61, 000               10 plate             April 2013                          New engine £1000 100%parts 0% labour

15.   Hobojim                     22,000                10 plate            December 2013                New engine £750 100%parts 30%Labour

16. Andygo (his son)        47,000                 2010                December 2013               New engine no costs. (Suspected tensioner)

17. CamGTI                        48,000                 59 plate          November 2013               New engine £1000 100% parts 33%Labour

18. Davidp81                     28,000                  59 plate          February 2014                 Under usedcar warranty

19. Herbie911                   39,000                  Nov 2009       September 2013             New engine under extended warrenty
Title: Re: Timing Chain Failure List - Please Update with Your Info
Post by: GS WAX on 18 December 2013, 17:13
4:  GS Wax's mate, 35K ish , 09/59,  August 2010 ish
Title: Re: Timing Chain Failure List - Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Poached on 18 December 2013, 18:29
Mine - 59 plate - 59635 miles - 16/10/13

Cost to repair £670
Title: Re: Timing Chain Failure List - Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Jimmgc51 on 18 December 2013, 20:26
Also I think price to fix and deal offered, this really helps other in negotiating!!

Mine 09 plate roughly 56,000 FVSH, September 13 ish

Official mechanic report from VW Darlington:

Timing slipped, damage to head and block, new engine required.

Cost: £675 100% parts 50% labour!
Title: Re: Timing Chain Failure List - Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Snoopy on 18 December 2013, 22:27
What happens.
I'll keep this short.

. The tensioner on the camshaft chain tensions by oil pressure.
. When the car has no or low oil pressure (car stood overnight or during work day) the tensioner falls back on its ratchet to keep tension on the timing chain.
. Its the ratchet that fails in the tensioner, therefore releasing tension on the chain.
. When you go to start the car, the chain is slack as the ratchet has failed.
. The chain moves on the sprockets and moves a couple of teeth before oil pressure builds and tensions the chain once again, but sadly in the wrong location as its moved teeth on one or more of the sprockets.
. Due to the timing been incorrect the ECU tries to keep the car running by changing the camshaft timing.
. As it cannot adjust enough the car either runs poorly or does not start at all.
. Due to the timing been incorrect. Engine Pistons meet cylinder head valves etc.

. Result=New engine needed or at least a rebuilt one.

(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b361/flogitg/chaintensioner.jpg)

(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b361/flogitg/Forum%20photos/Tensioner/8B01332C-F76C-4A50-ADF4-87FB2495FBDE-15752-0000134552766BAA_zpsbf7c8996.jpg)

(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b361/flogitg/Forum%20photos/Tensioner/DBC2D40B-C2F5-416D-8C25-E2C1C9056239-15752-000013454CB05421_zps372aff43.jpg)

(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b361/flogitg/Forum%20photos/Tensioner/IMG_20130306_161927_zps805095df.jpg)

(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b361/flogitg/Forum%20photos/Tensioner/IMG_20130306_162030_zpsc5aab7d7.jpg)


New 06K 109 467 K and Old 06H 109 467 AB

(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b361/flogitg/Forum%20photos/Tensioner/Tensioner31.jpg)

(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b361/flogitg/Forum%20photos/Tensioner/Tensioner21.jpg)

(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b361/flogitg/Forum%20photos/Tensioner/Tensioner1.jpg)

(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b361/flogitg/Forum%20photos/Tensioner/Tensioner51.jpg)

(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b361/flogitg/Forum%20photos/Tensioner/Tensioner4.jpg)


The ratchet of the old version

(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b361/flogitg/Forum%20photos/Tensioner/Tensioner6.jpg)


Parts needed to change just the tensioner ~£300 to do at a specialist.

(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b361/flogitg/Forum%20photos/Tensioner/img20130308183435.jpg)


Parts if changing the chain and guides (if going to this length i would change sprockets but thats me(VW don't do this)) ~£1200 to do the job by a VW dealer (note: cover not shown but imho should be changed as well)

(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b361/flogitg/Forum%20photos/Tensioner/484019_x600.jpg)


The latest release of the Tensioner 06K109467K was only released on 01/05/12 so any fitted before this are probably at risk.
Interestingly there is an extra note with a red stop sign in ETKA saying "Spare part must not be used any more please use replacement"
There was a revised tensioner fitted from engines built from 17 May 2010
A second revision of the tensioner from engines built in December 2011.
A third revision of the tensioner as quoted by Mike above from 01 May 2012.
Title: Re: Timing Chain Failure List - Please Update with Your Info
Post by: littlejon on 18 December 2013, 23:14
59 Plate, 50k, FVWSH, £1000 at Darlington also!, new engine, 100% parts, 70% labour, in April 2013
Title: Re: Timing Chain Failure List - Please Update with Your Info
Post by: mwad gti on 19 December 2013, 08:14
I will make this thread a sticky in the future.

Good idea  :wink:
Title: Re: Timing Chain Failure List - Please Update with Your Info
Post by: RocketRossUK on 19 December 2013, 08:40
59 Plate, 50k, FVWSH, £1000 at Darlington also!, new engine, 100% parts, 70% labour, in April 2013

how did you 70% labour cost more than Jimmgc 50% labour? How many hours did they charge you?
Title: Re: Timing Chain Failure List - Please Update with Your Info
Post by: littlejon on 19 December 2013, 08:48
I don't know. Jimmyc contacted me when his went and perhaps he managed better bargaining. I needed the car fixed and when they rang me with offer I was 10 minutes before a new job interview so just agreed. There was less on the forum when mine went so I had less info than is there now. The only thing I can think of is more damage to mine? They had the car for two weeks in all.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Obbzi on 20 December 2013, 10:33
Obbzi 52,00 miles 59 plate still waiting outcome  :cry:
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Jimmymature on 20 December 2013, 15:34
JimmyMature

09 Plate
full VW Service History
32k Miles
100% Parts
50% labour @ 8 hours quoted in total
Failed in November
Free scheduled service at same time!
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: RocketRossUK on 20 December 2013, 18:17
Does anyone have the original email they sent to VW Customer care about this issue so we can all use it as a template and adjust where necessary. Will save time for the the lads who are about to go through the process and i will attach it to the sticky thread.

thanks
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: spiderman on 20 December 2013, 18:41
59 plate , 34,000 miles, failed during service at the dealers in september:shocked: speak about timing :tongue:
out of warranty so a 70% contribution at £713.93 + Vat. I'd had it 9 months and my service was the first done at VW, the previous owner used a specialist. My dealer didn't seem to be bothered about that though.

Mine didn't fail completely, it was noisy so they put it on the machine and it flagged the Cam and crankshaft position sensors, the dealers knew about the problem so got straight on to it. They checked the tensioner as a matter of course, but warned me from the outset i would probably get a new engine. When they opened it up to look at the chain they found lots of metal particles as the chain had been rubbing the inside of the casing, so they also changed the Turbo, intercooler and anything else associated with the oil system.

Been running sweet as ever since :cool:

Sandy
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Mattyj on 20 December 2013, 21:04
Is this just a gti issue? Can't believe how early some of these have failed how come no recall? VW service has massively slipped no pun intended
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Snoopy on 20 December 2013, 21:10
Yes just GTI or cars with the timing chained 2.0 TSI engine.
The GTD uses a timing belt and a different type of tensioner.
The GTI Edition 35 and R uses a timing belt and a different type of tensioner.
The 1.4 TSI has a similar chain issue but this is a 2009-2013 2.0 TSI list.

No recall as its not a saftey related item. It fails at cold startup.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: pryda on 20 December 2013, 21:16
great thread, very informative. running an 09 plate myself, this issue is constantly on my mind.

would be great to hear some precautions I could take to try and avoid it.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Snoopy on 20 December 2013, 21:21
great thread, very informative. running an 09 plate myself, this issue is constantly on my mind.

would be great to hear some precautions I could take to try and avoid it.
There are no precautions apart from changing the tensioner to the latest revision.  As I stated in an earlier post this will cost about £300 by a specialist.
Sometimes it shows by a rattly chain noise at cold start up. Sometimes no warning at all the mechanical ratchet just fails.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: C3PO on 20 December 2013, 21:32
59 plate 50k, rattle just started, hoping to make it to the 30/12 when chain and tensioner being replaced
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: pryda on 20 December 2013, 21:47
I've got 61k on the clock, so it'll be due a change shortly anyway as a matter of course. I might get it done earlier for some peace of mind.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Snoopy on 21 December 2013, 08:08
WHAT TO LISTEN OUT FOR IF YOU EVEN GET ANY WARNING SIGN

Here is the upload of my engine over the past few weeks and as you can tell its getting worse:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UF4hyTLVCOQ
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: RocketRossUK on 21 December 2013, 11:45
WHAT TO LISTEN OUT FOR IF YOU EVEN GET ANY WARNING SIGN

Here is the upload of my engine over the past few weeks and as you can tell its getting worse:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UF4hyTLVCOQ

Yerp and then try get it in straight away loool - Im going to do another recording this morning (if it starts up)  :laugh:
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: pryda on 21 December 2013, 13:27
hope you get it sorted Ross, my arse would have gone by now. when is it booked in for?
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: RocketRossUK on 21 December 2013, 15:51
hope you get it sorted Ross, my arse would have gone by now. when is it booked in for?

I have been once already. I took it to VW Bradford where they told me it wasnt that bad and didnt realy know about the issue. Spoke to the tech and head of service, they didnt fill me with confidence. He said "I think we could fix it,its worth a shout as we can charge the warrant company £700 so we will make some money on it."

So i thought no thanks, and after reading Neils review for the VW @ Crosshill i thought i would give him a call. Totally different opinion about it, he was very knowledgeable and pretty much guaranteed me that he would be able to get this through under warranty and it will totally resolved the issue. Also a courtesy car for as long as i needed it.

but the earliest time was 7th of January. So just hoping it will make it.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Olifran on 21 December 2013, 22:29
Hi
Just wondering how many of the failed tensioners are on re mapped cars? Could this add to the likely hood of this happening? I'm a recent owner of an 11 plate GTI with only 16k on and toying with a stage 1 in new year.

Also will VW change the tensioner for the new type if I ask them or will they argue against it?

Thanks
Chris.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: gazareth on 21 December 2013, 23:32
nah it has nowt to do with engine maps. Vauxhalls are starting to have the same issues with slipping chains aswell.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Snoopy on 22 December 2013, 09:42
Hi
Just wondering how many of the failed tensioners are on re mapped cars? Could this add to the likely hood of this happening? I'm a recent owner of an 11 plate GTI with only 16k on and toying with a stage 1 in new year.

Also will VW change the tensioner for the new type if I ask them or will they argue against it?

Thanks
Chris.
Read my post on page one.  It explains what fails. If you still dont understand it I will try and explain it further.

11 plate cars have an uprated tensioner compared to 09 early 10 cars (see my post on page 1).
It can still fail on 2011 cars but the failure rate world wide seems to be less

Milage or power also have nothing to do with it, think when is the ratchet used?  :wink:

VW will change it but charge you ~ £1200 They only replace things that fail under warrenty (also see my post on page 2)
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: legg360 on 22 December 2013, 11:13
As far as the dates go will that be build date or registration? I'm guessing build??

Is there any way I can find out if I have the old or revised tensioner as my car was registered June 2010. If it's build date chances are it's going to have the old one  :cry:
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: MikeT on 22 December 2013, 15:05
10 plate 61,000 miles April 2013 New engine £1000 100% labour 0% parts
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Snoopy on 22 December 2013, 19:23
10 plate 61,000 miles April 2013 New engine £1000 100% labour 0% parts
Does that meen vw paid for the engine and you paid for the labour as it seems odd if its the other way round.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: spiderman on 23 December 2013, 18:40
Dude

mine wasn't a part rebuild it was a new engine, plus the turbo, intercooler, etc :wink:

Sandy
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: MikeT on 24 December 2013, 17:04
10 plate 61,000 miles April 2013 New engine £1000 100% labour 0% parts
Does that meen vw paid for the engine and you paid for the labour as it seems odd if its the other way round.

Yep, I paid labour they paid parts.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Snoopy on 24 December 2013, 18:50
Thanks.  Both updated.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Hobojim on 25 December 2013, 22:55
22k miles, 10 plate, dec 13, new engine, 100% parts 30% labour. 750 squids for labour
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Obbzi on 25 December 2013, 23:52
Update mine brand new engine £0 for me to pay  :smiley: :smiley: :smiley:

A very very careful driver at the moment  :embarrassed:
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: RocketRossUK on 26 December 2013, 00:16
Update mine brand new engine £0 for me to pay  :smiley: :smiley: :smiley:

A very very careful driver at the moment  :embarrassed:

no labour at all?  :cool:
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: TomS_ on 26 December 2013, 15:25
Yes just GTI or cars with the timing chained 2.0 TSI engine.
The GTD uses a timing belt and a different type of tensioner.

Ah this is an answer Ive been looking for for a while. To date I'd only seen mention of petrol engines, and I was getting worried if I might face this problem also.

Ive got a GTD (61 reg), so sounds like Im safe then. Phew!

I almost bought a GTI myself, but there was something more alluring about the diesel engined mk6's.

Having said that (I dont mean to gloat!), I feel sorry for the guys who are going through this. It cant be nice knowing that every time you go to start your car it might lead to this, and you might be left out of pocket for something thats not even remotely your fault. :cry:
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: RocketRossUK on 26 December 2013, 17:41
Yes just GTI or cars with the timing chained 2.0 TSI engine.
The GTD uses a timing belt and a different type of tensioner.

Ah this is an answer Ive been looking for for a while. To date I'd only seen mention of petrol engines, and I was getting worried if I might face this problem also.

Ive got a GTD (61 reg), so sounds like Im safe then. Phew!

I almost bought a GTI myself, but there was something more alluring about the diesel engined mk6's.

Having said that (I dont mean to gloat!), I feel sorry for the guys who are going through this. It cant be nice knowing that every time you go to start your car it might lead to this, and you might be left out of pocket for something thats not even remotely your fault. :cry:

bet yours sound like mine every time you start up your dirty diesel  :grin: :grin: :grin:
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Obbzi on 26 December 2013, 23:06
Update mine brand new engine £0 for me to pay  :smiley: :smiley: :smiley:

A very very careful driver at the moment  :embarrassed:

no labour at all?  :cool:

I paid £0 labour £0 parts winner! :cool:
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: pryda on 28 December 2013, 15:37
Update mine brand new engine £0 for me to pay  :smiley: :smiley: :smiley:

A very very careful driver at the moment  :embarrassed:

no labour at all?  :cool:

I paid £0 labour £0 parts winner! :cool:

which dealership was this at mate?
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Obbzi on 29 December 2013, 12:20
Update mine brand new engine £0 for me to pay  :smiley: :smiley: :smiley:

A very very careful driver at the moment  :embarrassed:

no labour at all?  :cool:

I paid £0 labour £0 parts winner! :cool:

which dealership was this at mate?

Took it to Stockport as that was the nearest to me when my car broke down
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: TomS_ on 29 December 2013, 12:28
bet yours sound like mine every time you start up your dirty diesel  :grin: :grin: :grin:

I think it sounds like a purring kitten.  :grin:
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Snoopy on 31 December 2013, 18:31
A couple of interesting links

hi there mate you might want to add this to the sticky list in the mk6 section as it will help a few owners an wont just disappear  :smiley:

http://www.vw.com/en/owners/parts-and-accessories/protection/recalls-campaigns.html


Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: RocketRossUK on 31 December 2013, 19:03
A couple of interesting links

hi there mate you might want to add this to the sticky list in the mk6 section as it will help a few owners an wont just disappear  :smiley:

http://www.vw.com/en/owners/parts-and-accessories/protection/recalls-campaigns.html

dont have my VIN to han, have you entered yours in, anything come back?
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Snoopy on 31 December 2013, 19:11
SKODA FORUM Cars with the same fault

http://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/266114-18tsi-and-20tsi-engine-failures/
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Tainton on 31 December 2013, 19:35
I'm into 9 months of ownership with no problems so far.  Checked logbook and my vehicle was registered 31/03/10 and have just reached 36k, should I be concerned/worried over these failures? would mine have a revised version fitted as standard?

Mine does sound a little diesel like on start-up but no where near as bad as Ross video.

Purchased from local Nissan Dealer who also has VW franchise but it only came with a 3 month warranty with Nissan.
I'm assuming any failure would not be covered by VW?

Anyone folks recommend any specialist near Grantham (in between Notts and Lincoln).  Cheers Ash

Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Jimmgc51 on 01 January 2014, 06:45
I bought private, no warranty but deal agreed.

It's the start up noise, as said before if it sounds rough for first 3 secs on cold start it may be on its way out!
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: mike. on 01 January 2014, 15:56
A couple of interesting links

hi there mate you might want to add this to the sticky list in the mk6 section as it will help a few owners an wont just disappear  :smiley:

http://www.vw.com/en/owners/parts-and-accessories/protection/recalls-campaigns.html

dont have my VIN to han, have you entered yours in, anything come back?

I think that one only works for US cars, THIS (http://www.volkswagen.co.uk/owners/recallsSubmit) is the UK one but mine comes back with no recalls.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Snoopy on 01 January 2014, 23:07
Found this on the skoda forum.
Skoda TPI. Technical product information

Below is an extract from the ELSA electronic documentation.

 There is a lot more for this fault, but at least the issue number is on there:- 2024485/5.
This should give the technicians an idea where to look....Technical product information Transaction No.: 2024485/5

Damage of timing chain tensioner

Release date: 27-Jun-2011

Customer statement / workshop findings
Engine cannot be started, the Check warning lamp is on
In the engine CU, the following fault is stored:• 00022 P0016 CMP Sensor -G40 Engine Speed (RPM) Sensor -G28 Incorrect allocation;• 00808 P0328 Knock Sensor 1-G61 Circuit High.

Technical background
Because of the defective function of the timing chain tensioner, the timing chain may get too loose during the start causing a valve timing change.
 This may result in a contact of valves with pistons.

Production change
Reinforced timing chain tensioner – new part 06H 109 467 T.
It was introduced to series production in CW 20, 2010.


Measure Check, repair
1:. VAS check, Guided Fault Search.
2. Remove the lower cover of the timing chain (see Elsa); check the timing chain tensioner function by pressing on the tensioning rail of the timing chain (Fig.1) against the tensioner. If the piston is inserted into the tensioner’s body (see Fig.2), the ratchet of the tensioner’s piston or the tensioner’s latch has been damaged. If you do not find a damaged timing chain tensioner even after a repeated check (see Fig.3), continue with point No. 6
3.. If a damaged timing chain tensioner was found, continue with examining pistons and valves (removing cylinder head or using of endoscope).
4. If pistons and valves are not damaged, replace the timing chain tensioner with the part 06H 109 467 T and carry out a new setting of the timing gear.
5. If pistons and valves are damaged, replace the engine.
6. Prior to a new timing chain setting, check the possible seizing of the camshafts. Repair by replacing the damaged parts
7.. If only the timing chain setting is shifted without the above parts being damaged, the fault was caused by exceeding the maximum engine revolutions (see the printout of the fault memory of the engine CU). In this case, a warranty repair is not possible
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Obbzi on 03 January 2014, 14:42
This is how mine sounds now with a brand new engine

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75joqSILfLs&feature=youtu.be

Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Snoopy on 03 January 2014, 18:52
Quote from: Snoopy link=topic=246903.msg2417416#msg2417416
http://youtu.be/DQ_MwM1nQZ4
Dont know if mines just a noisy injector or something else as it seems to be mostly from the centre area of the engine. :undecided: also doesnt quite down as if oil pressure rises. :undecided:
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: RocketRossUK on 03 January 2014, 19:45
Spoke to the guys at VW Crosshills and asked if there was any chance i could drop my car off a week early as it really started to sound bad (even worse than the video i posted).

30 mins later called me back and said "yeah sure - we will wiggle some stuff about and get you one by this afternoon sir" - so i now have this baby, 1.2 Polo. Not a bad car apart from the cornering.

So they have my car booked in for the 7th - 9th. So the worry of it going bang is over  :rolleyes:

PS - the guys @ VW crosshills = Amazing Service

(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k489/rocketrossuk/2bb08cab-bd9c-4844-ad05-424e853169d7_zpsd6ff7428.jpg)
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Booth11 on 03 January 2014, 20:58
Snoopy, are you able to post dates/year and details of tensioner revisions in this thread.  Might help newcomers find out what version their new/potential car might have.

I know a search would probably bring up the info but handy to have it in here with all the other vital info.

Thanks
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: C3PO on 03 January 2014, 22:23
Spoke to the guys at VW Crosshills and asked if there was any chance i could drop my car off a week early as it really started to sound bad (even worse than the video i posted).

30 mins later called me back and said "yeah sure - we will wiggle some stuff about and get you one by this afternoon sir" - so i now have this baby, 1.2 Polo. Not a bad car apart from the cornering.

So they have my car booked in for the 7th - 9th. So the worry of it going bang is over  :rolleyes:

PS - the guys @ VW crosshills = Amazing Service

(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k489/rocketrossuk/2bb08cab-bd9c-4844-ad05-424e853169d7_zpsd6ff7428.jpg)

I left my car there on the 30th December and drove back to MK in a polo R Line, looks great but no much go.

Glad Crosshills VW are looking after you, just a shame that the chain is on back order, will update when I get my car back sometime this month.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Snoopy on 03 January 2014, 23:35
Snoopy, are you able to post dates/year and details of tensioner revisions in this thread.  Might help newcomers find out what version their new/potential car might have.

I know a search would probably bring up the info but handy to have it in here with all the other vital info.

Thanks
I would if I knew them exactly,
I posted on page 1 a quote from mike about the latest tensioner revision release date been 01/05/2012.
I posted on page 5 post 3 from me that the first revision tensioner date as quoted as been fitted from production week 20 2010. (17/05/2010)


I cleaned up my post on page 5 to make it easier to read and highlighted the main posts and headings.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Booth11 on 03 January 2014, 23:45
Snoopy, are you able to post dates/year and details of tensioner revisions in this thread.  Might help newcomers find out what version their new/potential car might have.

I know a search would probably bring up the info but handy to have it in here with all the other vital info.

Thanks
I would if I knew them exactly,
I posted on page 1 a quote from mike about the latest tensioner revision release date been 01/05/2012
I posted on page 5 post 3 from me that the first revision tensioner date as quoted as been fitted from production week 20 2010.

Cheers.   Sorry mate, don't know how I missed that, lol.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Snoopy on 03 January 2014, 23:58
I have just updated my post on page one to help make the dates more clearer and easier too find. :smiley:

RocketRossuk Good to hear mate I was very worried about yours.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Jimmgc51 on 04 January 2014, 01:25
I have just updated my post on page one to help make the dates more clearer and easier too find. :smiley:

RocketRossuk Good to hear mate I was very worried about yours.

Great bit of info you've added on there mate! Really makes it clear for anyone now....

Good work  :smiley:
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: mike. on 04 January 2014, 09:38
I was just doing another check on ETKA and noticed something else.

Cars built up to 30/4/2010

Original tensioner 06H 109 467 N,  New tensioner revision after 01/05/12 06K 109 467 K

Cars built after 30/4/2010

Original tensioner 06H 109 467 T, New tensioner revision after 01/04/12 06H 109 467 AB and then revised again on 01/05/12 to the same part number 06K 109 467 K as above

Also listed along side this with the same tensioner revisions is the CDAA engine, 1.8, 160bhp petrol used in the Skoda Yeti and the Seat Leon MK2 (1P)
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: pryda on 04 January 2014, 12:03
slightly off topic, but I've just checked Euro Car Parts for a timing belt service kit and they don't provide one. do VW provide these?

if so, does anyone have the part numbers and an idea of the price? cheers
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: barrym381 on 04 January 2014, 12:34
slightly off topic, but I've just checked Euro Car Parts for a timing belt service kit and they don't provide one. do VW provide these?

if so, does anyone have the part numbers and an idea of the price? cheers
try tps  :wink:
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: RocketRossUK on 04 January 2014, 15:35
i think it only ECS that have a kit other than VW
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Snoopy on 04 January 2014, 17:26
http://www.golfmk6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=55992
Theres a list of parts needed on the thread DIY above. Ive not checked if its correct yet though.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: pryda on 04 January 2014, 21:47
I will check with VW and report back with prices and part numbers
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: RocketRossUK on 06 January 2014, 17:35
Great new fellas,  :smiley: :smiley: :smiley:

VW Crosshills called, they have started work on my car 3 days early. They have indeed found that my chain was slack and needs replacing.

The better new its not going to cost me a pennie. VW will pay for the part and the warranty company will pay for the labour.

I cant speak highly enough of VW Crosshills, after speaking with Ben on the phone for 15 mins (who has a MK5 GTI) i feel totally at ease with them working on my car and if anyone lives within 50 miles of them i would defo recommend traveling to get great service and peace of mind.

Can finally stop stressing  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Jimmgc51 on 06 January 2014, 17:52
Great new fellas,  :smiley: :smiley: :smiley:

VW Crosshills called, they have started work on my car 3 days early. They have indeed found that my chain was slack and needs replacing.

The better new its not going to cost me a pennie. VW will pay for the part and the warranty company will pay for the labour.

I cant speak highly enough of VW Crosshills, after speaking with Ben on the phone for 15 mins (who has a MK5 GTI) i feel totally at ease with them working on my car and if anyone lives within 50 miles of them i would defo recommend traveling to get great service and peace of mind.

Can finally stop stressing  :rolleyes:

Good news mate can't beat that for a turnaround. Also adds some weight behind the symptoms I reckon my bet would of been on for a Feb failure!!

Think I'll have to looks these guys up for next service as long as there up for price negation then my cars in  :smiley:
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Rgdogg on 06 January 2014, 18:33
Great result Ross, you can now rest easy, how long did it take them to do the job?
Ringing Ben in the morning even though mine does not sound bad think I may aswell get it done.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: RocketRossUK on 06 January 2014, 18:53
Great result Ross, you can now rest easy, how long did it take them to do the job?
Ringing Ben in the morning even though mine does not sound bad think I may aswell get it done.

They havent done it yet, Neil (C3P0) is having his done first (today or tomorrow) and then mine is getting done. Cant complain, free courtesy car for 8 days   :smiley:
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Rossc0 on 06 January 2014, 19:21
O/P just for info my mileage at the time of failure was 42k and it happened 8th June 2013
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: C3PO on 06 January 2014, 19:22
Good news, will be ringing Ben in the morning, as whilst I like the fuel consumption of the polo, I bought a GTI for a reason :grin:

So pleased that you found the experience a positive one, and I know Ben would be pleased to hear it. They keep winning dealership of the year for a reason. :cool:
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Poached on 06 January 2014, 19:34
I had had enough of the Polo VW gave me, nearly 4 weeks in car that felt very disconnected from the road and a soft suspension.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: C3PO on 06 January 2014, 19:45
I had had enough of the Polo VW gave me, nearly 4 weeks in car that felt very disconnected from the road and a soft suspension.
Now that's the way to describe the polo. I wonder if the GTI polo is the same?
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: pryda on 06 January 2014, 19:49
well I had a chat with my local VW dealer this afternoon (Corkills Wigan). enquired about parts (FYI Snoopy - the part number you post on page 1 is wrong 08K 109 467 K... should be 06K 109 467 K)

was told this isn't a wide spread problem, otherwise VW would have recalled affected cars. asked about prices for parts and was advised not to change just the tensioner as this could add stress to the chain that may not have been there originally.

no issues with my car as yet with 62k on the clock, but was told that my dealership would charge 100% parts and labour should the tensioner fail as the car is now out of warranty.

really unsure what to do next. I may sit tight and see how the car runs. tempted to cover my back with an additional VW warranty.

any thoughts?
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: ttdan on 06 January 2014, 19:59
Glad i have a timing belt!  :whistle:

Poor show by VW if they let owners foot the bill.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: RocketRossUK on 06 January 2014, 20:16
well I had a chat with my local VW dealer this afternoon (Corkills Wigan). enquired about parts (FYI Snoopy - the part number you post on page 1 is wrong 08K 109 467 K... should be 06K 109 467 K)

was told this isn't a wide spread problem, otherwise VW would have recalled affected cars. asked about prices for parts and was advised not to change just the tensioner as this could add stress to the chain that may not have been there originally.

no issues with my car as yet with 62k on the clock, but was told that my dealership would charge 100% parts and labour should the tensioner fail as the car is now out of warranty.

really unsure what to do next. I may sit tight and see how the car runs. tempted to cover my back with an additional VW warranty.

any thoughts?

Seriously Dave, thats a shocking reply from the dealership, no parts or labour !!!

For the sake of £290 i would get it changed as im right in thinking you have 59 / 10 plate?

Your dealer sounds about as bright as the first dealers i went to (Bradford VW). It might not be a pandemic  right now but most early GTI are only just hitting 55+k miles (rough idea of how many times your car has been started from cold), so im guessing over the next year we will be seeing 1 a week.
As we are currently seeing 1 a month right now and thats just people on the forum, imagine all the non-forum people this is happening to and getting ripped off.

The only reason there is no recall is because it doesn't affect the safety of you or your car. This is happening on all 2.0L TSI engine around the world.

And also people have documented no rattle before it fails, so i wont rely on that as a guide.

you dont want to be the guy that nearly got it changed and then bang !!!

Get it changed !!!
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: nige smith on 06 January 2014, 20:23
Get on to VWCS! Log your concerns & you'll have a case number to fall back on! This issue has totally ruined the enjoyment of owning my car, so I may well jump ship back to Audi.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: RocketRossUK on 06 January 2014, 20:38
VW own audi and the 2.0l TSI is the exact same....
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: pryda on 06 January 2014, 20:51
well I had a chat with my local VW dealer this afternoon (Corkills Wigan). enquired about parts (FYI Snoopy - the part number you post on page 1 is wrong 08K 109 467 K... should be 06K 109 467 K)

was told this isn't a wide spread problem, otherwise VW would have recalled affected cars. asked about prices for parts and was advised not to change just the tensioner as this could add stress to the chain that may not have been there originally.

no issues with my car as yet with 62k on the clock, but was told that my dealership would charge 100% parts and labour should the tensioner fail as the car is now out of warranty.

really unsure what to do next. I may sit tight and see how the car runs. tempted to cover my back with an additional VW warranty.

any thoughts?

Seriously Dave, thats a shocking reply from the dealership, no parts or labour !!!

For the sake of £290 i would get it changed as im right in thinking you have 59 / 10 plate?

Your dealer sounds about as bright as the first dealers i went to (Bradford VW). It might not be a pandemic  right now but most early GTI are only just hitting 55+k miles (rough idea of how many times your car has been started from cold), so im guessing over the next year we will be seeing 1 a week.
As we are currently seeing 1 a month right now and thats just people on the forum, imagine all the non-forum people this is happening to and getting ripped off.

The only reason there is no recall is because it doesn't affect the safety of you or your car. This is happening on all 2.0L TSI engine around the world.

And also people have documented no rattle before it fails, so i wont rely on that as a guide.

you dont want to be the guy that nearly got it changed and then bang !!!

Get it changed !!!

I'm really torn mate. its money that could be spent elsewhere and I don't want to jump the gun and cause any stress to the chain when I might not be affected to start off with, especially considering I have 62k on the clock which is much higher than the cars already affected.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: nige smith on 06 January 2014, 20:54
VW own audi and the 2.0l TSI is the exact same....

1.8 or 2.0TFSi A3 Black edition. Had an A3 2.0 TFSi Quattro for 5 years before the golf, never missed a beat, great engine! Should have listened to the Wife!
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Snoopy on 06 January 2014, 21:07
I was just doing another check on ETKA and noticed something else.

Cars built up to 30/4/2010

Original tensioner 06H 109 467 N,  New tensioner revision after 01/05/12 06K 109 467 K

Cars built after 30/4/2010

Original tensioner 06H 109 467 T, New tensioner revision after 01/04/12 06H 109 467 AB and then revised again on 01/05/12 to the same part number 06K 109 467 K as above

Also listed along side this with the same tensioner revisions is the CDAA engine, 1.8, 160bhp petrol used in the Skoda Yeti and the Seat Leon MK2 (1P)


Pryda
Corrected, sorry about that, i could say it was a test to see if anyone noticed what I wrote was not what was wrote on the parts box :wink:

"Extra stress  to the chain that was not there originally" pmsl  ROFPMSL :rolleyes:


Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: C3PO on 06 January 2014, 21:34
well I had a chat with my local VW dealer this afternoon (Corkills Wigan). enquired about parts (FYI Snoopy - the part number you post on page 1 is wrong 08K 109 467 K... should be 06K 109 467 K)

was told this isn't a wide spread problem, otherwise VW would have recalled affected cars. asked about prices for parts and was advised not to change just the tensioner as this could add stress to the chain that may not have been there originally.

no issues with my car as yet with 62k on the clock, but was told that my dealership would charge 100% parts and labour should the tensioner fail as the car is now out of warranty.

really unsure what to do next. I may sit tight and see how the car runs. tempted to cover my back with an additional VW warranty.

any thoughts?

Seriously Dave, thats a shocking reply from the dealership, no parts or labour !!!

For the sake of £290 i would get it changed as im right in thinking you have 59 / 10 plate?

Your dealer sounds about as bright as the first dealers i went to (Bradford VW). It might not be a pandemic  right now but most early GTI are only just hitting 55+k miles (rough idea of how many times your car has been started from cold), so im guessing over the next year we will be seeing 1 a week.
As we are currently seeing 1 a month right now and thats just people on the forum, imagine all the non-forum people this is happening to and getting ripped off.

The only reason there is no recall is because it doesn't affect the safety of you or your car. This is happening on all 2.0L TSI engine around the world.

And also people have documented no rattle before it fails, so i wont rely on that as a guide.

you dont want to be the guy that nearly got it changed and then bang !!!

Get it changed !!!

+1 if you like your car and wish to keep for a while, I would get it changed better safe than sorry, as you might not get much warning.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Poached on 06 January 2014, 21:37
I had had enough of the Polo VW gave me, nearly 4 weeks in car that felt very disconnected from the road and a soft suspension.
Now that's the way to describe the polo. I wonder if the GTI polo is the same?

More than likely stiffened with more road feel.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Poached on 06 January 2014, 21:41
VW own audi and the 2.0l TSI is the exact same....

1.8 or 2.0TFSi A3 Black edition. Had an A3 2.0 TFSi Quattro for 5 years before the golf, never missed a beat, great engine! Should have listened to the Wife!

Aldi retained the TFSI name for the same generation TSI vehicles as the rest of VAG group.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: RocketRossUK on 06 January 2014, 21:44
I was just doing another check on ETKA and noticed something else.

Cars built up to 30/4/2010

Original tensioner 06H 109 467 N,  New tensioner revision after 01/05/12 06K 109 467 K

Cars built after 30/4/2010

Original tensioner 06H 109 467 T, New tensioner revision after 01/04/12 06H 109 467 AB and then revised again on 01/05/12 to the same part number 06K 109 467 K as above

Also listed along side this with the same tensioner revisions is the CDAA engine, 1.8, 160bhp petrol used in the Skoda Yeti and the Seat Leon MK2 (1P)


Pryda
Corrected, sorry about that, i could say it was a test to see if anyone noticed what I wrote was not what was wrote on the parts box :wink:

"Extra stress  to the chain that was not there originally" pmsl  ROFPMSL :rolleyes:

"pmsl  ROFPMSL" I have no idea what that means, must be getting old (27), but im guessing it means the deals was talking pure bollocks and probably didnt have an idea what chain you we're talking about. Did he tell you to get it done when its in for its cam belt changing  :grin: :grin: :grin:
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Poached on 06 January 2014, 21:49
no issues with my car as yet with 62k on the clock, but was told that my dealership would charge 100% parts and labour should the tensioner fail as the car is now out of warranty.

Is this an approved used car purchased from VW? My car has no warranty so they are talking out of their rings, VW is and should be covering this fault as it is not fit for purpose.

Whats the service history like?
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Poached on 06 January 2014, 21:51

"pmsl  ROFPMSL" I have no idea what that means.

ROLL ON FLOOR PISSING MYSELF LAUGHING
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: nige smith on 07 January 2014, 08:17
VW own audi and the 2.0l TSI is the exact same....

1.8 or 2.0TFSi A3 Black edition. Had an A3 2.0 TFSi Quattro for 5 years before the golf, never missed a beat, great engine! Should have listened to the Wife!
The 2.0 TFSi 197bhp is not the same engine, it's the Mk5 Gti engine! Obviously you'll correct me if I'm wrong!
Aldi retained the TFSI name for the same generation TSI vehicles as the rest of VAG group.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: C3PO on 07 January 2014, 17:19
Had an email from Ben at VW Crosshills tonight as he has a message to ring someone about their golf GTI, but the person who took the message has written the number down got it wrong. He does not want that person to think he s not trying to call back, he tried several combinations but no joy. If it was someone on here can you call him back? Will update with pics later on my rebuild.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Rgdogg on 07 January 2014, 17:38
Cheers Neil it was myself who tried calling him, just got off the phone with Ben, nice to actually talk to someone from Vw who knows what they are talking about, vw Crosshills has another new customer!!
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: C3PO on 07 January 2014, 17:45
Good news, glad it's sorted. :smiley:
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Poached on 07 January 2014, 17:47
VW own audi and the 2.0l TSI is the exact same....

1.8 or 2.0TFSi A3 Black edition. Had an A3 2.0 TFSi Quattro for 5 years before the golf, never missed a beat, great engine! Should have listened to the Wife!
The 2.0 TFSi 197bhp is not the same engine, it's the Mk5 Gti engine! Obviously you'll correct me if I'm wrong!
Aldi retained the TFSI name for the same generation TSI vehicles as the rest of VAG group.

Yes that's correct, I thought you were considering a newer Aldi of the same engine.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: RocketRossUK on 07 January 2014, 18:08
The TSI engine overall is a much better engine though (barring the chain tension in early version) it has so much more scope for power and the torque when mapped blows the FSi /TFSI (K03) away.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: C3PO on 07 January 2014, 18:22
As RocketRossUK advised, the work on mine has started. Good news until Ben rang to say we found some other issues, not only did the chain, tensioner and various guides need replacement, but one of the bearings had collapsed for one of the camshafts !!!! :cry:. But no problem VW would pick up the bill :smiley:. Pic below (hope it works !!!!!) of the wear by the failed bearing. Had it seized then the damage would have been a lot worse. Glad I got it sorted now.(http://i1361.photobucket.com/albums/r675/nwelch376/WelchEngine3_zpse8a18aaa.jpg)
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: RocketRossUK on 07 January 2014, 18:59
Oh dear, thats not good.

Think Ben said mine in just chain and tensioner changing as the guide and other bits are fine. Think he is starting mine on Monday now. So more days in the Polo  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: RocketRossUK on 07 January 2014, 19:04
Oh dear, thats not good.

Think Ben said mine in just chain and tensioner changing as the guide and other bits are fine. Think he is starting mine on Monday now. So more days in the Polo  :rolleyes:

Also forgot to mention that when the chain and tensioner gets changed it needs a full oil change as standard. My major service is due soon he said he would do the full major service for £199 as it will be getting brand new oil anyways. Results !!!  :smiley:
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: C3PO on 07 January 2014, 20:21
No not good at all. Car was booked in for a service anyway, so good timing really. Apologies if I have delayed yours but I guess they don't know what they will find until they open them up. Fingers crossed yours will be straight forward.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: andygo on 09 January 2014, 19:55
See my othe rthread, but basically its all going to be fixed for free! Result....

http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=262786.30
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: C3PO on 12 January 2014, 07:23
Update, mine now back and cannot believe how quiet it is now. Bill was a fraction of what it should have been, very satisfied with the results, just a shame VW cannot do the right thing to start with.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: andygo on 12 January 2014, 08:11
See from your profile you are from MK. Which garage sorted you car?
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: C3PO on 12 January 2014, 16:58
VW Crosshills (near Skipton, North Yorkshire) :huh: why? Because its were I purchased the car from new, and their customer service is the best around. Well worth the 130 mile drive.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: RocketRossUK on 12 January 2014, 17:10
VW Crosshills (near Skipton, North Yorkshire) :huh: why? Because its were I purchased the car from new, and their customer service is the best around. Well worth the 130 mile drive.

what final cost did you have to pay? Ben @ Crosshills should be calling me tomorrow for updates. Thinking mine should be done by Tuesday
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: C3PO on 12 January 2014, 20:38
VW Crosshills (near Skipton, North Yorkshire) :huh: why? Because its were I purchased the car from new, and their customer service is the best around. Well worth the 130 mile drive.

what final cost did you have to pay? Ben @ Crosshills should be calling me tomorrow for updates. Thinking mine should be done by Tuesday

Final costs for a 50000 service, new alloy wheel, new camshaft, tensioner, chain, spark plugs etc was £150.

Like I said very happy with what they have done, great care taken with my car.

Ben mentioned they found something else, has he said what it was? I saw yours on the ramp when I collected mine yesterday.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: RocketRossUK on 12 January 2014, 20:56
VW Crosshills (near Skipton, North Yorkshire) :huh: why? Because its were I purchased the car from new, and their customer service is the best around. Well worth the 130 mile drive.

what final cost did you have to pay? Ben @ Crosshills should be calling me tomorrow for updates. Thinking mine should be done by Tuesday

Final costs for a 50000 service, new alloy wheel, new camshaft, tensioner, chain, spark plugs etc was £150.

Like I said very happy with what they have done, great care taken with my car.

Ben mentioned they found something else, has he said what it was? I saw yours on the ramp when I collected mine yesterday.

yeah something about a rubber plug, wasnt 100% which part he meant, said the part should be in Monday so might be ready for evening collection  :smiley:
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: C3PO on 12 January 2014, 21:22
That's good then, nothing serious.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: RocketRossUK on 13 January 2014, 17:59
That's good then, nothing serious.

Got it back today...Yeah !!!!

Ultra quiet on start up and it feels great overall with it just having major service.

Man it make you feel so lucky to be in a GTI when you have been in a bog standard Polo for 10 days.

Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Snoopy on 13 January 2014, 19:40
Ross can we have a video to compare please. Just remember neutral  :wink:
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: RocketRossUK on 13 January 2014, 20:22
Ross can we have a video to compare please. Just remember neutral  :wink:

Lol, yeah ill get one in next few days  :smiley:
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Obbzi on 14 January 2014, 00:10
Just a quick note, I took my car to VW Bolton today for a service (even though I've only done 400 miles with my brand new engine  :rolleyes:) and when I booked it in told the bloke it had a brand new engine, he asked why and when I said chain tensioner he laughed and said they had one in at the moment and done lots recently! VW are very much aware of the problem and some dealers seem to be in denial for some strange reason :whistle:
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: hms on 14 January 2014, 10:55
Hi all,

I am having a lot of trouble getting a good resolution to this problem. Full info on my post:

http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=263151.0

In brief they say fault is timing chain slipped cause unclear but tensioner is not at fault. VWCS will not contribute, dealership have offered to do for £3,500. I am somewhat outraged but this is better than £6400.

I am still waiting for them to get back after I said that was unacceptable.

My main question is this - the dealership who had not really heard of or experienced the tensioner failure have said it was working. They stripped it out and showed me that when they squeezed it down with a finger it sprang back. I have no idea what the faulty one looks like and how much tension should it offer? Should you be able to press it down with your fingers or should it require a lot more force?

Thanks very much in advance.

Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: RocketRossUK on 14 January 2014, 11:08
£3500 is a disgrace !!!! - The tensioner doesn't actually have to fully fail to cause this problem. Its the chain which is the problem. If the chain over time gets too slack it will come off, the tensioner should pull it tight, if for some reason the the ratchet doesn't spring back / pull tight the chain will jump.

So keep fighting and push really hard, There is nothing else that can cause it.

Is it still under warranty or less than 60,000 miles ( engine and transmission warranty).
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: hms on 14 January 2014, 11:14
No warranty sadly - I think that the 60,000 mile 'Powertrain warranty' is a VW USA warranty, which again is a shame. I hope if I get nowhere pushing VWCS that I would have grounds to take action that the car is not fit for purpose - a £35000 vehicle (after finance etc) outlay should realistically be expected to last more than 4.5 years or 47,000 miles. I asked the service manager if he was in my shoes would he be satisfied with that offer - he just looked sheepish as he knew it's a disgrace.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: C3PO on 14 January 2014, 13:03
No warranty sadly - I think that the 60,000 mile 'Powertrain warranty' is a VW USA warranty, which again is a shame. I hope if I get nowhere pushing VWCS that I would have grounds to take action that the car is not fit for purpose - a £35000 vehicle (after finance etc) outlay should realistically be expected to last more than 4.5 years or 47,000 miles. I asked the service manager if he was in my shoes would he be satisfied with that offer - he just looked sheepish as he knew it's a disgrace.

You need to push as there is a TPI out which tells the dealership what they need to do

Service Bulletin Number : TB-15-12-01 Date of Bulletin : JUL 23, 2012
NHTSA Item Number : 10045560
Component : ENGINE
Summary :
VOLKSWAGEN: ALL MODELS EXPERIENCE THE TIMING CHAIN SLIPPING, RATTLING NOISES OF THE ENGINE AFTER STARTING, AND ENGINE FAILS TO START. 2008-13 ALL MODELS. *PE

If they can dispute that I would be interested.

RocketRoss is spot on, the chain stretches and then the tensioner does not do its job causing the issue. They need to re-consider. I have the CEO's email address for VW/AUDI/Porsche if you need to push higher.

Neil
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: andygo on 14 January 2014, 16:50
My son is getting his engine replaced FOC and labour FOC as well They have also given him a Polo R as a loaner. The dealers didn't bother stripping the engine, just had a peep through the spark plug hole with a bore scope. As the valves had hit the pistons, it was new engine time. Talk to VWCS and point them in the direction of the Internet.

Good luck, don't take no for an answer!
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: RedHP on 17 January 2014, 19:19
Hey all, sorry to sound 'simple' but what are the signs for this failure issue please?

Ta, Red
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Jimmgc51 on 17 January 2014, 21:13
Hey all, sorry to sound 'simple' but what are the signs for this failure issue please?

Ta, Red

All answers are within this thread! Please read from start and the majority of questions will be answered!
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Obbzi on 20 January 2014, 14:40
Hey all, sorry to sound 'simple' but what are the signs for this failure issue please?

Ta, Red

Sounds very rough on cold start up :sad:
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: RedHP on 26 January 2014, 18:22
Hey all, sorry to sound 'simple' but what are the signs for this failure issue please?

Ta, Red

Sounds very rough on cold start up :sad:

Thanks
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Obbzi on 26 January 2014, 22:43
Red, there are a few clips on here that people have taken you really need to listen to those clips so you can hear it. I didn't have a clue, I got no warning it just went  :cry:
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: RocketRossUK on 26 January 2014, 23:53
Hey all, sorry to sound 'simple' but what are the signs for this failure issue please?

Ta, Red

Sounds very rough on cold start up :sad:

Thanks

Red, i have added the video link to the original post at the top, click and listen mate
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: CamGTI on 28 February 2014, 18:23
One more to add to the list:

59-plate
48,000 miles

Failed in November 2013.

New engine covered FOC by VW. Negotiated a 33% discount on labour costs with the dealer, resulting in a bill of around £1,000.


For my car there was no warning. My wife was with the car and it simply failed to start from cold. The AA  recovered it to an independent who had a look and diagnosed a slipped timing chain. This was the first I had heard of it being a potential problem. The independent suggested I speak to VW customer services who advised me to get the car trailered to my local dealer as without an 'official' diagnosis there was no chance of getting any replacement parts covered. VW customer services advised the dealer to fit a complete new engine for free but the dealer wanted to charge me £1,500 labour to fit the engine. In my opinion they should have replaced it for free, but I eventually agreed a 33% discount and got the car back a week later.

I've since covered 3-4000 miles on the new engine with no hassle. The whole episode has taken the shine off what has otherwise been a fantastic ownership experience.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Poached on 28 February 2014, 18:48
One more to add to the list:

59-plate
48,000 miles

Failed in November 2013.

New engine covered FOC by VW. Negotiated a 33% discount on labour costs with the dealer, resulting in a bill of around £1,000.


For my car there was no warning. My wife was with the car and it simply failed to start from cold. The AA  recovered it to an independent who had a look and diagnosed a slipped timing chain. This was the first I had heard of it being a potential problem. The independent suggested I speak to VW customer services who advised me to get the car trailered to my local dealer as without an 'official' diagnosis there was no chance of getting any replacement parts covered. VW customer services advised the dealer to fit a complete new engine for free but the dealer wanted to charge me £1,500 labour to fit the engine. In my opinion they should have replaced it for free, but I eventually agreed a 33% discount and got the car back a week later.

I've since covered 3-4000 miles on the new engine with no hassle. The whole episode has taken the shine off what has otherwise been a fantastic ownership experience.

Thanks for updating the list. As you found out the dealership tried to rinse you for labour costs on a design defect :rolleyes:.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: davidp81 on 03 March 2014, 14:43
Hi all,

New member here, had my 59 plate GTi (28000 miles)for 4 weeks when the timing belt went last Tues  :sad: Car wouldn't start at all so VW assist recovered it to my local dealer in Basingstoke who quoted me £500 in labour just to investigate the fault with the car and no guarantees it would be covered by warranty. This set off alarm bells as I'd only had the car 4 weeks.

I contacted the dealer I bought the car from (Lookers, Battersea) and they recovered the car back to themselves. They confirmed on Friday that it is the timing chain issue and they are offering to do all the work for free and add an extra years warranty on the car, I have also been offered an exchange of the car as it went wrong in the first 30 days of owning it. (Really impressed with Lookers customer service as a new VW owner.)

I'm thinking of just getting the car fixed as everything else was great with it but thought I'd ask if there is anything I need to be wary of and any reason I should maybe consider exchanging the car instead, thanks for any tips.

Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Jimmgc51 on 03 March 2014, 16:27
Personally Id definitely get the car back. After this you will have a brand spanking new engine which is an excellent place to be in the first 4 x weeks of ownership with no cost to yourself apart from the nuisance whilst it's repaired of course.

Id make sure you find out exactly what is being replaced and query why only 1 year warranty on the engine.

This has happened to me also but my new engine came with 2!

Thanks for updating the thread also I thought these stories had slowed down but this is the second in only a week or so...
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: davidp81 on 03 March 2014, 16:36
Thanks for the response, I will definitely find out the specifics on what is being replaced and ask the question regarding the warranty. Have only spoken to the sales guys so far rather than anybody in service which is why there isn't much detail on the work being carried out.

I definitely think keeping the car is the more sensible option as if I exchange for another car from their stock I'm going to be worrying about the same issue on that one, at least this way I'm getting this sorted and out of the way.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Rgdogg on 03 March 2014, 17:11
Also if your thinking of going stage 1 or stage 2 there is a small chance the inlet manifold may need replacing, mine did and I know a few people on here have had it go as well, but that should be covered under warranty for the next 2 years.
I think you should keep the car, your lucky in a way that you have a good understanding dealership, the rest have been treated like sh*t by VW, good luck in what you choose and welcome to the forum.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: charlie on 03 March 2014, 17:55
Get the car back and enjoy
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Snoopy on 03 March 2014, 18:38
Upto you if you keep it. Just keep in mind the entire front end of the car will have been apart.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Hobojim on 05 March 2014, 09:15
If the work is done properly, as it should be, I would keep the car. A brand new engine is a nice thing to have.

@ everyone who has had a new engine. What service schedule are you going to apply to the vehicle now?

I'm just going to keep up my regular 1 yr service. My engine will have done around 5k by the time it is serviced so perfect for changing the oil after running in. Obv, not going to do spark plugs etc which would have been due (4yr 40k service) as they are now brand new.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Jimmgc51 on 05 March 2014, 14:29
If the work is done properly, as it should be, I would keep the car. A brand new engine is a nice thing to have.

@ everyone who has had a new engine. What service schedule are you going to apply to the vehicle now?

I'm just going to keep up my regular 1 yr service. My engine will have done around 5k by the time it is serviced so perfect for changing the oil after running in. Obv, not going to do spark plugs etc which would have been due (4yr 40k service) as they are now brand new.

Me too same schedule, it would only of pushed it back two month anyway. Mine had just had a service a few weeks before it went twang!!

Should of really negotiated a free on in hindsight but had a lot on I suppose...
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Upperoilcan on 12 March 2014, 20:23
Having read this thread with some interest I have to say its putting me off buying a MK 6 which is one of the cars on my shortlist.

Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Jimmgc51 on 12 March 2014, 21:21
Mines gettin sold when the warrenty is out!

I don't trust it anymore, even if the issue is fixed WHAT IF it was to happen again as a failed part then VW arnt sending a free engine again.

It even puts me off the MK7 I was wanting to keep this for years but seems a golf running an EA888 I'd be paronoid or get rid every three years.

I do love the R though, let's see how the 10plates hold up 2014 is there year.....
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: RocketRossUK on 12 March 2014, 21:29
Mines gettin sold when the warrenty is out!

I don't trust it anymore, even if the issue is fixed WHAT IF it was to happen again as a failed part then VW arnt sending a free engine again.

It even puts me off the MK7 I was wanting to keep this for years but seems a golf running an EA888 I'd be paronoid or get rid every three years.

I do love the R though, let's see how the 10plates hold up 2014 is there year.....

I think your over reacting bro. Out of the whole car one part was just a bad design. Pretty much all of their cars prior were belt driven. The chain driven was new for them and one guy designed a bad part which didnt stand the the test of time. They have revised the part and are that confident in it that they have used it in the new MK7, so it must be a winner.

All car companies have to try new things, sometimes you have faults. As long as the company rectifies and makes it better than no more can be done.

All be it, for the people who have had this problem and had to pay, then yes, that was harsh and i dont applaud that. But for every bad case there has been a good one like mine. I was very impressed with VW Crosshills how quickly they sorted it and gave me another 2 years warranty
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Jimmgc51 on 12 March 2014, 21:39
Mines gettin sold when the warrenty is out!

I don't trust it anymore, even if the issue is fixed WHAT IF it was to happen again as a failed part then VW arnt sending a free engine again.

It even puts me off the MK7 I was wanting to keep this for years but seems a golf running an EA888 I'd be paronoid or get rid every three years.

I do love the R though, let's see how the 10plates hold up 2014 is there year.....

I think your over reacting bro. Out of the whole car one part was just a bad design. Pretty much all of their cars prior were belt driven. The chain driven was new for them and one guy designed a bad part which didnt stand the the test of time. They have revised the part and are that confident in it that they have used it in the new MK7, so it must be a winner.

All car companies have to try new things, sometimes you have faults. As long as the company rectifies and makes it better than no more can be done.

All be it, for the people who have had this problem and had to pay, then yes, that was harsh and i dont applaud that. But for every bad case there has been a good one like mine. I was very impressed with VW Crosshills how quickly they sorted it and gave me another 2 years warranty

Fair enough I appreciate what your saying but for me having been through it the element of trust is gone & so this will take time to re-build!

I do hope they have fixed it after the fourth revision but as said time will tell, if no more horror stories on the newer models then I may have an mk7 R parked on the drive  :grin:
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: RocketRossUK on 13 March 2014, 00:06
Mines gettin sold when the warrenty is out!

I don't trust it anymore, even if the issue is fixed WHAT IF it was to happen again as a failed part then VW arnt sending a free engine again.

It even puts me off the MK7 I was wanting to keep this for years but seems a golf running an EA888 I'd be paronoid or get rid every three years.

I do love the R though, let's see how the 10plates hold up 2014 is there year.....

I think your over reacting bro. Out of the whole car one part was just a bad design. Pretty much all of their cars prior were belt driven. The chain driven was new for them and one guy designed a bad part which didnt stand the the test of time. They have revised the part and are that confident in it that they have used it in the new MK7, so it must be a winner.

All car companies have to try new things, sometimes you have faults. As long as the company rectifies and makes it better than no more can be done.

All be it, for the people who have had this problem and had to pay, then yes, that was harsh and i dont applaud that. But for every bad case there has been a good one like mine. I was very impressed with VW Crosshills how quickly they sorted it and gave me another 2 years warranty

Fair enough I appreciate what your saying but for me having been through it the element of trust is gone & so this will take time to re-build!

I do hope they have fixed it after the fourth revision but as said time will tell, if no more horror stories on the newer models then I may have an mk7 R parked on the drive  :grin:

yep i agree, fingers crossed eh.... :cool:
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Pld118 on 19 March 2014, 06:55
Hi, I'm new to the forum and this first thread I've read certainly seems to show its a worthwhile forum.

It's quite a long first post but... :whistle:

I'm in the process of buying a 2010MY, 3 Door manual GTi from a UK VW main dealer (deposit paid).  The car has covered 48k miles and has a full service history.

The car will come as approved used with a 12 month Das Welt VW warranty and is yet to undergo the pre sale inspection so I've been trying to know what I should be alert to with the timing chain and/or any other important things to be alert to with these cars, so maybe I can get queries documented with the garage before completing the sale by way of protection if something big does go wrong?

Did some research of my own yesterday and here's what I found out:

According to the servicing main agent, the car I'm buying hasn't had a new tensioner fitted nor any timing chain/ drivetrain (or any other) problems (as an aside the water pump hasn't gone either). They did say that in 6 years they've seen about 3 of these type cars with a timing chain related failure (that seems not many at all).

The up to date timing chain tensioner for 'my car' is part number 06K109467K (confirmed by VW Parts and by TPS) and can be bought cheaper/ directly from TPS UK for £38.40 incl VAT as a stock item (obviously other associated parts are required too).

The servicing main agent for 'my' particular car guesstimated that to replace the tensioner/ other essential parts is about a 6 hour job.

I then rang a local indy specialist who estimated more like a couple of hours of a job at labour rates of £50/hour (even if it took double that, at £50/hour it's not bad and sounds about £300 of a job incl parts?).

I also rang the "Das Welt" VW Approved Used warranty claims helpline and they said the tensioner is covered as is the timing chain as is any consequential damage "subject to terms".

I was then a lot more comfortable at the prospect of proceeding with this purchase... until reading this thread. 

Whilst the VW A.U warranty does seem pretty comprehensive "subject to terms", am I reading on here that some main dealers are charging the warrantied customer for labour costs anyway ( or is that partial contribution only for warranty expired cars)?

The dealer I'm buying from is currently - reluctantly - doing a fair bit of interior and exterior cosmetic work on the car I'm buying at my request and within the agreed purchase price. 

I'm now wondering whether or not I should be asking them to change the tensioner etc as part of the deal as this uncertainty does make me nervous on a fairly expensive car.  If I knew that between the VW warranty and/ or the Sale of Goods Act 1979 I'd be covered without cost if there was a problem I'd be more comfortable but it's just all potentially foreseeable hassle when a couple of hours labour could banish the woes at source.

So, some questions please if you will humour me:

1. Does this affect more DSG than manual cars ('mine' is manual)?

2.  Do I relax, be reassured by the fact it's not all cars that will fail and anyway I'm covered by the warranty and the S.O.G.A?

3.  Do I email the garage and ask them to replace these timing chain components as a condition of sale, otherwise seek a written assurance that within the first 12 months they will between themselves and the warranty cover any such failures and consequential damage at no cost to me?

4.  Do I buy the genuine VW parts and pay the recommended Indy specialist to do it as soon as I get the car?

Long post but a potentially expensive problem so hopefully you don't mind.

All replies much appreciated.

Thanks.

Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: mikegti77 on 19 March 2014, 07:46
Hi, I'm new to the forum and this first thread I've read certainly seems to show its a worthwhile forum.

It's quite a long first post but... :whistle:

I'm in the process of buying a 2010MY, 3 Door manual GTi from a UK VW main dealer (deposit paid).  The car has covered 48k miles and has a full service history.

The car will come as approved used with a 12 month Das Welt VW warranty and is yet to undergo the pre sale inspection so I've been trying to know what I should be alert to with the timing chain and/or any other important things to be alert to with these cars, so maybe I can get queries documented with the garage before completing the sale by way of protection if something big does go wrong?

Did some research of my own yesterday and here's what I found out:

According to the servicing main agent, the car I'm buying hasn't had a new tensioner fitted nor any timing chain/ drivetrain (or any other) problems (as an aside the water pump hasn't gone either). They did say that in 6 years they've seen about 3 of these type cars with a timing chain related failure (that seems not many at all).

The up to date timing chain tensioner for 'my car' is part number 06K109467K (confirmed by VW Parts and by TPS) and can be bought cheaper/ directly from TPS UK for £38.40 incl VAT as a stock item (obviously other associated parts are required too).

The servicing main agent for 'my' particular car guesstimated that to replace the tensioner/ other essential parts is about a 6 hour job.

I then rang a local indy specialist who estimated more like a couple of hours of a job at labour rates of £50/hour (even if it took double that, at £50/hour it's not bad and sounds about £300 of a job incl parts?).

I also rang the "Das Welt" VW Approved Used warranty claims helpline and they said the tensioner is covered as is the timing chain as is any consequential damage "subject to terms".

I was then a lot more comfortable at the prospect of proceeding with this purchase... until reading this thread. 

Whilst the VW A.U warranty does seem pretty comprehensive "subject to terms", am I reading on here that some main dealers are charging the warrantied customer for labour costs anyway ( or is that partial contribution only for warranty expired cars)?

The dealer I'm buying from is currently - reluctantly - doing a fair bit of interior and exterior cosmetic work on the car I'm buying at my request and within the agreed purchase price. 

I'm now wondering whether or not I should be asking them to change the tensioner etc as part of the deal as this uncertainty does make me nervous on a fairly expensive car.  If I knew that between the VW warranty and/ or the Sale of Goods Act 1979 I'd be covered without cost if there was a problem I'd be more comfortable but it's just all potentially foreseeable hassle when a couple of hours labour could banish the woes at source.

So, some questions please if you will humour me:

1. Does this affect more DSG than manual cars ('mine' is manual)?

2.  Do I relax, be reassured by the fact it's not all cars that will fail and anyway I'm covered by the warranty and the S.O.G.A?

3.  Do I email the garage and ask them to replace these timing chain components as a condition of sale, otherwise seek a written assurance that within the first 12 months they will between themselves and the warranty cover any such failures and consequential damage at no cost to me?

4.  Do I buy the genuine VW parts and pay the recommended Indy specialist to do it as soon as I get the car?

Long post but a potentially expensive problem so hopefully you don't mind.

All replies much appreciated.

Thanks.

hi and welcome, i'm new here too...

i have a 59 plate gti, i found out about tensioner issue after i purchased from skoda main dealer, so came with official skoda approved used warranty, which runs out soon.

i have taken the option to get the tensioner replaced at a local VAG specialist (http://www.thevasstech.com/) for hopefully piece of mind as i had problematic tensioner design.  if it helps you, my cost using official VW parts and latest tensioner, cost was £380 inc vat.  A touch higher then you have been quoted, they charge £50 / hr, the parts list including new bolts, new chain cover (60 odd pound + vat), tensioners was quite long, chain cover plate sealant (£28 + vat), some of the tension bolts are £4 each, other bolts pennies, parts supplied from TPS, 4 hrs labour charged.

if you can get the tensioner change as part of the deal do it, you say 2010 car, so you may have a 2nd gen tensioner fitted depending upon build date in 2010, which is better design i think.  i guess the other option is do as i have once your warranty comes close to running out, or extend warranty.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: andygo on 19 March 2014, 21:53
Interesting to see your parts list matey. Any chance of posting?
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Pld118 on 20 March 2014, 06:29
@mikegti77 - Thanks for the reply.  The VassTech website is impressive and seems to portay a good set up.

You say your warranty is running out hence you're changing the tensioner etc (presume you had no warning signs or symptoms/ you're just keeping a step ahead?).

Were you satisfied your Skoda supplied warranty would have covered a tensioner/chain/ consequential damage failure?

Thanks again.

Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: mikegti77 on 20 March 2014, 09:20
Interesting to see your parts list matey. Any chance of posting?

all prices below are plus VAT.  You maybe able to get anyway with less bolts, they changed what they thought required replacing to avoid re-using bolts.

06K109467K - upper tensioner x 1 (£35.56)

D 174003A2  - sealant x 1 (£28.19)

N 10552402  - hex bolt x 1 (£2.87)

N 10701501  - bolt x1 (£2.64)

N 90596906  - bolt x 1 (£4.87)

N 91029602  - bolt x 1 (£4.70)

WHT001760   - damper bolt x 2  (£4.18 each)

06H109210Q  - timing chain cover x 1 (£60.85)

N91096702 - bolts for cover plate x 10 (£0.16 each)

4 hours labour @ £42.00
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: mikegti77 on 20 March 2014, 09:33
@mikegti77 - Thanks for the reply.  The VassTech website is impressive and seems to portay a good set up.

You say your warranty is running out hence you're changing the tensioner etc (presume you had no warning signs or symptoms/ you're just keeping a step ahead?).

Were you satisfied your Skoda supplied warranty would have covered a tensioner/chain/ consequential damage failure?

Thanks again.

I would most of the time after standing over night (low oil pressure) get this noise at startup (first 1 second metallic noise), this is not my car btw: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCLSXCO3NU0

The skoda warranty is actually 'car care plan' who do a lot of manufactures warranties, i believe tensioner is covered / consequential damage.  I could have let the car carry on making its timing chain noise with the backup of the warranty, but decided to fix the issue instead, in a few months time warranty ends.  as you will see at the thread start vw are covering the cost of the engine with cira a £1000 input from owner, vw know there is a problem.  warranties are around £350 - 400 a year, but of course does not fix the issue, just insures against it, pays your money takes your chances i guess.

my car no longer makes the startup rattle, mileage when tensioner was changed was 52K.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: davidp81 on 20 March 2014, 09:40
Hi, I'm new to the forum and this first thread I've read certainly seems to show its a worthwhile forum.

It's quite a long first post but... :whistle:

I'm in the process of buying a 2010MY, 3 Door manual GTi from a UK VW main dealer (deposit paid).  The car has covered 48k miles and has a full service history.

The car will come as approved used with a 12 month Das Welt VW warranty and is yet to undergo the pre sale inspection so I've been trying to know what I should be alert to with the timing chain and/or any other important things to be alert to with these cars, so maybe I can get queries documented with the garage before completing the sale by way of protection if something big does go wrong?

Did some research of my own yesterday and here's what I found out:

According to the servicing main agent, the car I'm buying hasn't had a new tensioner fitted nor any timing chain/ drivetrain (or any other) problems (as an aside the water pump hasn't gone either). They did say that in 6 years they've seen about 3 of these type cars with a timing chain related failure (that seems not many at all).

The up to date timing chain tensioner for 'my car' is part number 06K109467K (confirmed by VW Parts and by TPS) and can be bought cheaper/ directly from TPS UK for £38.40 incl VAT as a stock item (obviously other associated parts are required too).

The servicing main agent for 'my' particular car guesstimated that to replace the tensioner/ other essential parts is about a 6 hour job.

I then rang a local indy specialist who estimated more like a couple of hours of a job at labour rates of £50/hour (even if it took double that, at £50/hour it's not bad and sounds about £300 of a job incl parts?).

I also rang the "Das Welt" VW Approved Used warranty claims helpline and they said the tensioner is covered as is the timing chain as is any consequential damage "subject to terms".

I was then a lot more comfortable at the prospect of proceeding with this purchase... until reading this thread. 

Whilst the VW A.U warranty does seem pretty comprehensive "subject to terms", am I reading on here that some main dealers are charging the warrantied customer for labour costs anyway ( or is that partial contribution only for warranty expired cars)?

The dealer I'm buying from is currently - reluctantly - doing a fair bit of interior and exterior cosmetic work on the car I'm buying at my request and within the agreed purchase price. 

I'm now wondering whether or not I should be asking them to change the tensioner etc as part of the deal as this uncertainty does make me nervous on a fairly expensive car.  If I knew that between the VW warranty and/ or the Sale of Goods Act 1979 I'd be covered without cost if there was a problem I'd be more comfortable but it's just all potentially foreseeable hassle when a couple of hours labour could banish the woes at source.

So, some questions please if you will humour me:

1. Does this affect more DSG than manual cars ('mine' is manual)?

2.  Do I relax, be reassured by the fact it's not all cars that will fail and anyway I'm covered by the warranty and the S.O.G.A?

3.  Do I email the garage and ask them to replace these timing chain components as a condition of sale, otherwise seek a written assurance that within the first 12 months they will between themselves and the warranty cover any such failures and consequential damage at no cost to me?

4.  Do I buy the genuine VW parts and pay the recommended Indy specialist to do it as soon as I get the car?

Long post but a potentially expensive problem so hopefully you don't mind.

All replies much appreciated.

Thanks.

Hi,

I bought a 59 plate GTi at the end of Jan from a VW dealer and had the timing chain go 3 weeks ago. I'm hopefully getting the car back this weekend.
When the garage I purchased the car from looked at it they did confirm it was fully covered by the warranty. However as I had the car such a short time VW warranty kept challenging this with the dealer and the dealer had to have several meetings with them. They challenged the dealer that the fault already existed when they took out the warranty. This added an extra week of delays to the work being done. (I'm stuck driving a Beetle  :sad:) However this was all resolved Monday and work started on the new engine build yesterday. (It's still not costing me anything for the new engine which is the biggest relief.)

So you can be pretty confident that the warranty will cover this if the worst does happen but I would suggest asking the dealer to provide something in writing that they have checked that the tensioner is all ok, just in case the worst happens in the first few weeks of ownership as it did with me.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Pld118 on 20 March 2014, 10:58
@ davidP81,

That's the benefit of sharing thoughts and experiences on forums like this because of the great insight offered by those who have taken preventative action (e.g mikegti77) and those who have been afflicted like you.  Thanks for sharing this.

I had already decided that if I'm satisfied they get the car up to visual/ cosmetic standard as promised, meaning I'm having the car, I'll then discuss the subject of the tensioner and the best way forward with them (no point in addressing that now in case the deal falls through on cosmetics etc). 

Your experience and the VW Warranty approach are exactly as VW warranty explained to me the other day.  Basically, that the warranty company has a clear expectation that proper and robust pre sales inspections are carried out by main dealers (obviously to avoid dealers potentially cutting corners resulting in warranty prematurely being relied on to 'pay out').

I did think there was a £5k limit with the warranty though? ...and was wary of that because I think I've read some people saying main dealers wanted approx. £6k to repair consequential timing chain tensioner/ related damage.

I doubt the dealer I'm buying from will agree to replace the tensioner upon my request unless there's a demonstrable symptom (rattle etc).  But I would expect them to confirm in writing that within the first 12 months, for example, they guarantee that having declined my pre-sales request to change the relevant components, then if it does fail in that time period, between the selling garage and the warranty company they will repair all at no cost to me.

@davidp81 - Are you prepared to say which dealer/ group you bought from?

Thanks again.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: davidp81 on 20 March 2014, 12:26
I bought mine from Lookers in Battersea and overall I have been really impressed. I had the car recovered to my local VW dealer in Basingstoke and they quoted potential labour costs just to investigate the fault. I contacted Lookers and they recovered the car back to themselves and provided a courtesy car straight away. I had actually owned the car 32 days when it failed but they did give me the option to exchange the car for any other as part of the 30 day exchange scheme they run. I chose to get the work done to the car though as it was the exact spec (3 door, Candy white) that I had gone out looking for.

It's been extremely frustrating being without the car for 3 weeks so soon after spending out so much (last car was a Type R and did not have a single fault in 8 years), but putting things in to perspective the fact it is not costing me anything to get such a big job done is definitely a positive and why I stumped up extra cash to buy approved used.

They're excellent cars though so good luck with the purchase.  :smiley:


Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Pld118 on 20 March 2014, 15:51
Thanks davidP81
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: fentshire on 24 March 2014, 22:24
Hello there all of you with Golf Mk 6 GTI timing issues.

Here is my little story...

I live mostly in Vienna, but use my Golf Mk 6 GTI when back in England and drive over to Vienna three or four times a year.

I purchased my car (Candy white, 3 doors) second hand, from Listers in Leamington Spa in July 2012. It is an October 59 reg, it had 19k miles on the clock. I fortunately purchased a two year VW warranty with it.

I have enjoyed driving it over the last 21 months and had no problems. It now has 45k miles on it. It has been serviced at a local independent garage, when required. However, a week ago, I flew back to London Gatwick, from Vienna, ready to enjoy a late night drive up the M40 to my home in Sutton Coldfield, West Midlands. After 30 minutes, I stopped for a midnight cappuccino to keep me going. When, I turned on the engine again, I noticed the warning light come on and an awkwardness in the starting of the car. Now, I have no knowledge of engines, nor mechanics. I can fill it up with petrol and that is about it.

I drove back home and the following day, I immediately booked it into my local official VW garage - Johnsons. They were really helpful and a lady called Laura was sparkling with helpfulness. I guessed it might be the starter motor, because of the whirring sound when turning the key in the ignition. But as mentioned, I am clueless about engines. I had guesstimated a bill of up to £400+.I waited about 30 minutes and then an engineer came out. He told me the timing chain had gone and the car was undrivable.

Then it was back to Laura. My first question was to ask her how much it might cost in the worst case. She said they would have to investigate properly, but it could be circa £2k ish. My heart dropped and my wallet was screaming at me in my back pocket. I politely told her I had purchased the car from Listers in L. Spa and had a 2 year VW warranty. She said leave it with me.

I flew back to Vienna last week and until this afternoon had heard nothing. I took this to be bad news and was expecting to be £2k lighter in my bank a/c when all this was through.

Well the wonderful news is I received an email from Laura this afternoon, to say my car would be completely mended in the next few days, with zero cost to me (because of the warranty) and would then be delivered to my home, ready for when I get back from Vienna in 10 days.

Brilliant and so very pleased. Hats off to Laura for her excellent customer service and thank heavens I purchased the VW warranty.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Pld118 on 26 March 2014, 05:44
Further reassurance there fentshire  :smiley:

Y'day morning, I raised this topic with the selling VW main dealer.  The sales person said - having spoken to both his Sales and Service Manager - this is not an issue they have experienced in 8 years of working there.  They verbally reassured me that their pre sales service inspection was robust and that they would not intend to change the tensioner parts as a preventative measure as there are no symptoms on the car either (I explained there are not always symptoms). 

Whilst verbally informing me not to worry as between the warranty and the dealership, I would be covered without cost in the even of a failure, they would not confirm that in writing, aside to the wording of the VW warranty.

They did show me the pre sales inspection paperwork for this car and despite having had a major service in November, last month they did a full service, all filters changed, wiper blades all changed, rear brake pads changed and 2 new rear tyres amongst other things; and all of that aside to a lot of well done interior and exterior cosmetic repairs and trim/ accessory replacement that I requested as part of the deal. 

Their seemingly honourable and thorough approach on other issues, combined with the 12 month Das Welt VW warranty (and some good examples on this forum of the VW warranty covering such failures); and my S.O.G.A rights does make me feel reassured not to become too paranoid about this potential issue.

I did wonder though if before collection, I should suggest what if I pay for the parts, will they stand the labour time and just get this done (a stitch in time and all that)...

Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: mikegti77 on 26 March 2014, 09:00
Further reassurance there fentshire  :smiley:

Y'day morning, I raised this topic with the selling VW main dealer.  The sales person said - having spoken to both his Sales and Service Manager - this is not an issue they have experienced in 8 years of working there.  They verbally reassured me that their pre sales service inspection was robust and that they would not intend to change the tensioner parts as a preventative measure as there are no symptoms on the car either (I explained there are not always symptoms). 

Whilst verbally informing me not to worry as between the warranty and the dealership, I would be covered without cost in the even of a failure, they would not confirm that in writing, aside to the wording of the VW warranty.

They did show me the pre sales inspection paperwork for this car and despite having had a major service in November, last month they did a full service, all filters changed, wiper blades all changed, rear brake pads changed and 2 new rear tyres amongst other things; and all of that aside to a lot of well done interior and exterior cosmetic repairs and trim/ accessory replacement that I requested as part of the deal. 

Their seemingly honourable and thorough approach on other issues, combined with the 12 month Das Welt VW warranty (and some good examples on this forum of the VW warranty covering such failures); and my S.O.G.A rights does make me feel reassured not to become too paranoid about this potential issue.

I did wonder though if before collection, I should suggest what if I pay for the parts, will they stand the labour time and just get this done (a stitch in time and all that)...

my advice would be to just enjoy your car :)

you've asked the right questions, you are aware of the potential issue and importantly you have a good warranty, so i would not worry.  in 12 months time when the warranty expires decide what you want to do. if you do decide to change the tensioner in a years time, think of it as a cam belt change (in cost terms).  One thing that maybe worth checking is the car build date, if second half of 2010 you may have a revised version of the tensioner fitted already, exact dates of version at start of this thread, 2009 / early 2010 versions seem to be the affected ones i believe.

enjoy your car when you collect it, drive it as it should be, they are great cars!
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Pld118 on 26 March 2014, 17:20
Thanks for the reply Mike. 

The garage declined to do this preventative work either fully or on a labour only/ I pay for the parts basis, the sales person reiterating not to worry, the warranty/ group will cover it in the event of a failure.  Anyway, it's all documented that I broached the subject with them yesterday and today and made a reasonable offer to partially pay for the work before collection of the car and therefore save the warranty company/ organisation a much larger outlay in the future should failure occur.  I'm satisfied I've done what I reasonably can for now and that I've got adequate protection in the event of a failure during the warranty period; and if the car behave's itself, it will be kept beyond the initial warranty period and the warranty extended by me anyway.  The car has a fantastic service history and is later 2010MY so touch wood...


Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: herbie911 on 01 April 2014, 14:24
Hi Guys and Gals,
Not been here for a while. My car was four years old with 39000miles on the clock when the engine called it a day. Didn't realised I am not the only with a a blown engine.
The story starts last summer when my car makes a funny rattling noise every morning. I took it to the dealer and left the car overnight. They said they didn't hear anything. As my work is busy I plan to wait til my next service in a months time before asking them to review the issue again. After two weeks, the car starts to consume more fuel and one saturday morning it just won't start. Luckily in my own home!The RAC guy immediately told me it is bad news and mentioned he towed another MK 6 GTI a week ago. It took my local dealer 3 weeks before they starts looking at my car and told me the cylinder head had gone due to problem with the timing belt. It took another week before they put a new engine in my car. They did lend me a courtesy car for that week. Fortunately, I went for the extended warranty when the factory one expired. I just wonder why VW don't do what Porsche do with the GT3, just recall the whole batch and fix the problem. Although the dealer had been helpful, I lost a bit of confidence with the brand!
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: RocketRossUK on 01 April 2014, 18:10
Because Porsche care about their reputation. And also there isnt that many GT3 to recall, there are hundreds of GTI, Octavia II, A3, Leon etc that would need it doing. It would cost them a fortune.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Snoopy on 01 April 2014, 18:23
Also because its not a saftey risk. Unlike a gt3 bursting into flames.

herbie911 can I add you too the list? Anymore details if I add you?
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: herbie911 on 01 April 2014, 23:20
Yes Snoopy, you can add me to that list. My car was delivered in 11/2009. The engine went in september 2013 with 39000miles on the odo. I know they replaced the whole engine-heads and bottom end. They kept the ecu and I think they use the same turbo. Initially they talk about charging me for doing the engine diagnostic as the extended warranty did not cover it. Somehow they change their mind and offered me a courtesy car instead.
Unfortunately, I don't know how much it will had cost me if I don't have the extended warranty. I didn't ask as I was a bit upset at the time. So far, there is no trouble with the engine. Just added a litre of Castrol last month!
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: darrent on 02 April 2014, 18:12
@mikegti77 - Thanks for the reply.  The VassTech website is impressive and seems to portay a good set up.

You say your warranty is running out hence you're changing the tensioner etc (presume you had no warning signs or symptoms/ you're just keeping a step ahead?).

Were you satisfied your Skoda supplied warranty would have covered a tensioner/chain/ consequential damage failure?

Thanks again.

I would most of the time after standing over night (low oil pressure) get this noise at startup (first 1 second metallic noise), this is not my car btw: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCLSXCO3NU0

The skoda warranty is actually 'car care plan' who do a lot of manufactures warranties, i believe tensioner is covered / consequential damage.  I could have let the car carry on making its timing chain noise with the backup of the warranty, but decided to fix the issue instead, in a few months time warranty ends.  as you will see at the thread start vw are covering the cost of the engine with cira a £1000 input from owner, vw know there is a problem.  warranties are around £350 - 400 a year, but of course does not fix the issue, just insures against it, pays your money takes your chances i guess.

my car no longer makes the startup rattle, mileage when tensioner was changed was 52K.
Sorry for dragging this off topic a bit but you can't receive pm's
Just a couple of questions
How did you find Vasstech also what warranty/guarantee did they give you on their work.
I've an extended warranty purely because of this problem but thinking £380 and get it sorted is better than pulling out the same every year.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: mikegti77 on 02 April 2014, 19:36
@mikegti77 - Thanks for the reply.  The VassTech website is impressive and seems to portay a good set up.

You say your warranty is running out hence you're changing the tensioner etc (presume you had no warning signs or symptoms/ you're just keeping a step ahead?).

Were you satisfied your Skoda supplied warranty would have covered a tensioner/chain/ consequential damage failure?

Thanks again.

I would most of the time after standing over night (low oil pressure) get this noise at startup (first 1 second metallic noise), this is not my car btw: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCLSXCO3NU0

The skoda warranty is actually 'car care plan' who do a lot of manufactures warranties, i believe tensioner is covered / consequential damage.  I could have let the car carry on making its timing chain noise with the backup of the warranty, but decided to fix the issue instead, in a few months time warranty ends.  as you will see at the thread start vw are covering the cost of the engine with cira a £1000 input from owner, vw know there is a problem.  warranties are around £350 - 400 a year, but of course does not fix the issue, just insures against it, pays your money takes your chances i guess.

my car no longer makes the startup rattle, mileage when tensioner was changed was 52K.
Sorry for dragging this off topic a bit but you can't receive pm's
Just a couple of questions
How did you find Vasstech also what warranty/guarantee did they give you on their work.
I've an extended warranty purely because of this problem but thinking £380 and get it sorted is better than pulling out the same every year.

Hi,

I've used VASSTECH in the past for servicing and other jobs on my A3, family and friends also use them. They are well known around area as being good, I'm located in Darlington, I see you are north east also.  All their work is covered by the usual 2 yr VW parts warranty.  I spoke to them about the issue, they had never seen a 2.0 tsi with the problem, but we discussed the parts and work involved and I decided to go for it as i trust them.

That was my thinking to be honest, pay the money and (hopefully, touch wood  :undecided:) get the source of the problem fixed rather than having to pay every year for piece of mind.  I viewed it as a cambelt change in money terms.

it was spoiling my enjoyment of the car so just got it done, you'll see my parts listed in this thread. the only advantage i can think of renewing the warranty every year is that other parts of the engine (and car) are also covered.

I've enabled pm's now (thanks), good luck with your decision...
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Scottw on 12 April 2014, 21:10
Can I just ask why there's 2 cable tires round the chain ,in the photo on the front page?,
Could something like this be made to keep the per-tension on the chain before the oil pressure builds up?
Sorry don't own a gti ...yet,doing homework ..
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Snoopy on 13 April 2014, 12:05
They are only there as the person who took the photo put them on to hold the tension on the chain while removing/replacing the tensioner. They are not fitted by vw and should not be left there as the chain would just snap them if the car was started.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: fentshire on 13 April 2014, 20:05
Re- Timing Chain failure

Dear All

Well, if you look a few pages back I highlighted my Timing Chain 'failed' issue.

The great news is on Friday, I finally got my GTI back all fixed and fully tested, after a month. It did not cost me a penny because thankfully I had a VW warranty when I purchased it second hand in July 2012.

I have a copy of the invoice, for new mechanical pieces put in my engine. I really do not understand them, as I am a competent incompetent with all things mechanical. However, the cost of the items was £1789. If you then guesstimate a day of labour to fix it, then this would be an additional charge of close to £1000.

Johnsons, my local VW garage were first rate in customer service and gave me a courtesy car to use (no charge) while my car was being mended (an automatic VW Up, but better than walking everywhere).

Having got used to the rather slow speed of the VW Up, it was such a joy to get my GTI back. But, in total if I had my warranty, this would have cost me north of £2500 to fix.

Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Pld118 on 13 April 2014, 20:25
That's a happy story fentshire.  Good for you.

So basically, your car was still within the extended VW warranty period and the reassurance factor is that if your car is serviced/ maintained to VW requirements, if you have an approved used Das Welt extended VW warranty, should a car be afflicted with timing chain tensioner failure/ consequential damage, one will indeed be covered and aside to inconvenience, need not worry?
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: fentshire on 13 April 2014, 21:31
Yes, that is 100% correct.

Also, after purchasing my GTI, I got it serviced (at the required intervals, with stamp etc) at a very good local independent garage, which is considerably cheaper on the hourly labour charge. They use VW parts when needed. The point being you do not need to get the GTI serviced at an authorised VW garage, where the labour charge was £95 + VAT per hour and you pay for rubber plants, tv, cappuccinos, pretty girls who answer the phone etc.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Hobojim on 17 April 2014, 14:33
I think my local dealer is trying to cut costs on the pretty girl front......
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: fentshire on 17 April 2014, 20:49
You should see the chaps at my local independent garage...no pretty girls with short skirts there, but they are bloody good engineers and excellent value  :wink:
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Pld118 on 23 May 2014, 09:31
Hi, I've got concerns that our manual 2010MY might be afflicted by symptoms of this issue (either that or the starter motor might be on the way out) because on cold start up there is a brief grinding or rattle noise, I'm sure of it and our other cars don't make any such noises. 

I've listened to Rocket Ross' page 1 you tube sound byte of the issue and am fairly certain ours sound similar. 

I've got a good ipad recording of ours but don't know how to post it on the website.  If anyone who has technical knowledge of this issue and/ or has been afflicted by a start up noise that was proven to be this very issue, would you please be prepared to give me your email address and I can send you my clip of ours as the dealership seems to be saying there is nothing wrong with it.

Thanks.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: RocketRossUK on 23 May 2014, 12:56
Hi, I've got concerns that our manual 2010MY might be afflicted by symptoms of this issue (either that or the starter motor might be on the way out) because on cold start up there is a brief grinding or rattle noise, I'm sure of it and our other cars don't make any such noises. 

I've listened to Rocket Ross' page 1 you tube sound byte of the issue and am fairly certain ours sound similar. 

I've got a good ipad recording of ours but don't know how to post it on the website.  If anyone who has technical knowledge of this issue and/ or has been afflicted by a start up noise that was proven to be this very issue, would you please be prepared to give me your email address and I can send you my clip of ours as the dealership seems to be saying there is nothing wrong with it.

Thanks.

Ryan has sent the audio clip to me, and I can confirm it has medium chain rattle - Sound like it has anywhere between 4-12 weeks before it will go. Ryan has mention he can have a refund on his car. Good luck and i hope yo get it sorted.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: goodsum on 26 May 2014, 01:12
My car has just started to make that horrible grindy noise on startup in the last couple days. From a bit of digging around, I believe it is this Timing Chain tensioner problem! It has only happened a couple of times, but it has been since I topped up the oil a few days ago with 5w30 FS. I only bought the car 1 week ago! I phoned the previous company to service it and they assured me that this was the oil they used when they changed it, so I can only presume that is correct.

What is my best course of action? Get a new tensioner fitted ASAP?
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Pld118 on 26 May 2014, 08:37
@goodsum - if you bought privately, in your position, I would get the car to a recc Indy Specialist and have it assessed with a view to replacement of the TC tensioner etc which I understand is around £350.

If you bought it from a garage, I would get it back to them and request competent correction work to be done or ask for a refund.

Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: RocketRossUK on 26 May 2014, 09:31
My car has just started to make that horrible grindy noise on startup in the last couple days. From a bit of digging around, I believe it is this Timing Chain tensioner problem! It has only happened a couple of times, but it has been since I topped up the oil a few days ago with 5w30 FS. I only bought the car 1 week ago! I phoned the previous company to service it and they assured me that this was the oil they used when they changed it, so I can only presume that is correct.

What is my best course of action? Get a new tensioner fitted ASAP?

The noise isn't so much of a grinding sound, it more like a lose chain slapping other metal components (slack chain).

The noise comes on slowly and gets worse as the it gets slacker. Wait for a cold start up and record the sound. We can have a listen and advise from there.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Pld118 on 29 May 2014, 20:40
According to a reply received from the selling dealership today, our car is not afflicted with this issue, their explanation for this particular issue being:
 
"This is not a [ignition/starter motor] flywheel or timing chain issue, and in our opinion is the engine building oil pressure from a cold start."

For this and other legitimate reasons, I've asked for a full refund on the car.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Booth11 on 29 May 2014, 20:56
According to a reply received from the selling dealership today, our car is not afflicted with this issue, their explanation for this particular issue being:
 
"This is not a [ignition/starter motor] flywheel or timing chain issue, and in our opinion is the engine building oil pressure from a cold start."

For this and other legitimate reasons, I've asked for a full refund on the car.


A sound move on your part.  They are fobbing you off.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: gaurav_aidasani on 02 June 2014, 13:23
Dear all

Having stumbled across this thread by accident (as I was looking for FW/Map updates etc!), I am starting to get worried about my GTI.

Towards the end of march this year I bought a GTI mk6 with 59 plate and 1st registered in Jan 2010 from a private seller (he was 4th owner) with 29,000 miles on the clock. The car is in fantastic condition with full VW history and no remarks on any of the services (I had cross checked to see if everything matched on the service book). The car has been an absolute joy to drive so far and have had no issues with it at all. I live in London so only use it over weekends to go over to gf's house (in Hertfordshire) therefore cover about 60 miles (I've done 900 miles in total so far). I haven't played the audio which has been posted on the forum yet, but whenever I start its as though i've started up a diesel (I may be going a bit paranoid!). I was quite worried at first but found at other forums that it's normal, and have  that grin back on my face when the turbo kicks in on the motorway (fantastic grunt!).

I have a minor service coming up in a month and a major one in Jan 2015, but I have decided to save a bit of money and do the major one now (as suggested by local VW dealer).

However, I am worried about the tensioner failure issues, so any suggestions on what I should do? Shall I get it replaced now or later at the service interval? Or simply should I enjoy the car and service as normal (hopefully they'll advise whether it needs replacing or not?).

Also, as the warranty has expired, shall I purchase a warranty? My family have always had good experiences with VWs, have had 3/4 polos over 10 years old and have never failed, so for me VW reliability experience is pretty solid.

p.s. the car is a manual, not sure if the tensioner failure is more of an issue on DSGs or manuals, or indifferent?
 
Thanks
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: RocketRossUK on 02 June 2014, 14:51
No difference in manual or DSG.

I would enjoy the car until you start hearing the chain slap for 2-4 second while the pressure builds up.

Your car could be fine for another 10 years. You will know when the chain is starting to get slack, it gets worse and worse. At that point i would then get an indie to change it for you, approx £350 including labour.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: gaurav_aidasani on 02 June 2014, 16:13
Brilliant, just the answer I was looking for!

Will enjoy it with peace of mind but with an ear on any funny sounds.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: andyt on 05 June 2014, 14:57
Hi,
I had a warning light come on a few weeks ago when I started my gti, it was coming up for 45k mile service so I booked it straight in. The garage did the diagnosis pointing to timing chain/cams which led me to this forum. The result of the diagnosis is below:

Quote
"Your engine warning light was on the fault related to a timing chain fault, we carried out a full diagnostic test plan which involved checking of the timing, this was found to be incorrect we stripped the engine and inspected the cylinder head and timing chain, we found metal erosion marks on the camshafts and the bearings, we also found the strainer on the non-return valve has disintegrated and we are unable to locate the missing parts from the supporting bracket.
 
Due to this in our opinion a new engine required as the missing items could/have caused further internal damage to the engine."

VW are adamant they will not pay out. Can anyone advise if the above might be the result of the tensioner failing or if this is something completely unrelated?

thanks

ps. it's a Golf Mk6 GTI DSG 59 plate, 44k miles
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Pld118 on 06 June 2014, 01:59
@andyt

1. When did you buy the car?
2. From whom did you buy the car?
3. Is the car covered by the Das Welt warranty?
4.  Has the car always been serviced via a VAT reg'd garage and to manufacturer's schedules?
5.  What reason has VW given you for not paying out?
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Snoopy on 06 June 2014, 07:56
Doesnt sound like the tensioner to me. Maybe a stretched chain and cam barring failure.
try the links to thw skoda site you may find they have suffered the same issues.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: andyt on 06 June 2014, 08:10
I bought the car last November from a private seller, no warranty but it has always been serviced by VW. They have mentioned it was 2 months late for one service and they don't know how the car has been driven etc.

I'm going to keep trying, sounds like it isn't the tensioner issue though.
thanks
Andy
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Pld118 on 06 June 2014, 09:36
Whatever it is, sounds like your best hope is for some form of Good will contribution from either a dealer or VW.  Good luck.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: JordBaber on 09 June 2014, 23:32
Again my car is sounding like a diesel on start up with rattle for a second or 2. 33k 59.. I hope it's not too much to worry about as I don't have the spare money to change the tensioner or anything. Seems like I'm in a lose lose situation wish I never found this thread after reading it for the last hour or two. Let's hope she holds out as bought privately  :undecided:
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: RocketRossUK on 10 June 2014, 14:24
Again my car is sounding like a diesel on start up with rattle for a second or 2. 33k 59.. I hope it's not too much to worry about as I don't have the spare money to change the tensioner or anything. Seems like I'm in a lose lose situation wish I never found this thread after reading it for the last hour or two. Let's hope she holds out as bought privately  :undecided:

That is the worse decision you make make bro. DONT Wait it out. If it goes you may be stuck with a £2000 bill.

Listen to my original audio clip, and if its sound like you have chain slap for 1-4 seconds on cold start up then get it fixed now. £250 and you can rest at ease for the next 4 years
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: charlie on 10 June 2014, 15:05
As rocket says get it done before you have an even bigger bill :smiley:
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: JordBaber on 10 June 2014, 18:08
May have to cancel the holiday with the mrs then. Why 4 years? Is that the lasting rate of these new parts?
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: VWhitehawk on 11 June 2014, 21:45
Spoke to previous owner of vehicle, 2009 59, complete engine replacement 2012.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: gaurav_aidasani on 17 June 2014, 10:32
Just an update from my last post on this thread.

I'm still enjoying the car, although everytime I start it from cold I listen carefully (a little annoying/worrying/anxious to be honest!). So far it's smooth and I can't hear anything.

I did contact VW UK CS with my concerns and they have given me a reasonable reply I reckon (your inputs & feedback are welcome....). They have expressed their concern and have recommended, if I feel uncomfortable, to have an authorized VW garage diagnose the issue. If they find something wrong then they will liaise with the retailer and if necessary offer any further support required (some kind of gesture I believe?).

Any idea how much a diagnostic will cost? I'm assuming this is something that will NOT be detected on VAG COM so I'm guessing a few hours required?

I have a minor service coming up in a few weeks, and a major in 6 months (30k miles at the moment) but I reckon I'll have a major one done to save a few ££££. Do you guys think if I ask them politely they'll include a diagnostic of the tensioner in the Major service?
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: RocketRossUK on 17 June 2014, 11:46
The only way to diagnose it is to take the side cover off and have a look for a slack chain. Which in fact is easier to hear rather than see.

VW will charge you £100+ for the pleasure and will say its fine. Dont bother mate.

Best thing to do is record your cold engine start up's twice a month on your phone for 6 months and see if it sounds any different. As its too hard to tell day by day.

Other than doing that, I would just enjoy your car and enjoy driving it. If you start hearing it get worse (which you will if the chain start to slacken) then get it in for repair, but till then have fun.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Pld118 on 27 June 2014, 06:00
My wife's car was returned after some extensive after sales and remedial work yesterday which was not solely about rectifying this timing chain related fault. 

However, this post is specific to this timing chain thread and is an interesting outcome that should hopefully assist others who have active VW approved warrantied cars in the future, or in fact others who have bought cars from any UK motor trader because within the first 6 months of ownership, you do have clear rights as provided by the Sale of Goods Act.

Since buying the car in March, I repeatedly reported concerns to the selling dealership that there was timing chain rattle on start up.  I was repeatedly told that there was nothing wrong with this aspect of the car.  My understanding is that the fault denials were based purely upon their listening to the car starting and deciding nothing was wrong.  As you will read, plugging the car into the VW diagnostic would not have assisted with diagnosis anyway.

I, justifiably, complained beyond the selling dealership, to Director level of what is a large UK wide group.  My complaints about this and many other genuine issues were immediately taken seriously, gripped and acted upon.  The car was recovered to another group dealership.  I supplied - as I had done with the selling dealership - video footage of the obviously unhealthy noise on start up. 

The appointed resolving dealership set to work on the car without fuss and this is what their final report says of the timing chain issue on this particular car:

"Investigated clattering noise on start up.  Confirmed noise heard from timing chain area, carried out guided fault find and no faults logged.  Referred to VW technical and relevant technical product information related to same issue described.  Removed rubber plug from [timing] chain cover and upon inspection, found visually that the timing chain does require replacing, along with the tensioner.  Also found top oil gallery housing for top timing gears had come out due to ball bearing.  Re-fit parts as required and carried out 2nd guided fault find test, no faults logged..."

Thanks to this original thread created by Rocket Ross and much appreciated direct support offered from Ross, I was able to speak about this fault from an informed position and was even able to supply the dealership with the list of parts and VW part numbers that I thought would need to be changed.  In fact, more parts than just the tensioner needed to be replaced, including the actual timing chain, as reported above.

Not only did the resolving dealership carry out these repairs, they kept the car for some time after that even going to the length of wanting to leave it sitting idle for several days so that all of the oil would drain away before starting the car again to determine if that would replicate any start up clatter concerns etc.

This repair, at no cost to me, has been VW parts and labour warrantied for 2 years.

Early days as the car has only just been returned but my wife commented immediately that the start up sounds much more crisp, clean, quiet and smooth (a good way to describe the noise before the parts were replaced would be that with the bonnet up and putting your ear towards the left hand side of the engine bay on start up, it was incredibly noisy and you might think you were listening to a diesel engined car).

Don't be fobbed off with anything if you genuinely believe there's a problem that you are entitled to be given assistance with.  Keep calm, do your homework and as opposed to ranting, politely articulate your concerns in writing, give the obvious people the opportunity to make good and if problems persist then progressively escalate your concerns - for example to Service Managers, After Sales Managers, Brand Managers/ Dealer Principals, Director level - until you are given a meaningful response.

** When reporting concerns or complaints in writing there is no need to traditionally post communications via Recorded Delivery etc.  If you have the relevant person's email address, then email provides a perfectly good and auditable means of 'having things in writing'.  Email can also generate a quicker response than traditional mailing.  Email also makes it easier and quicker for the recipient to share, disseminate and delegate the issues for expedient resolution. **

Thanks to the forum, to Rocket Ross and to those professionals who were committed to properly resolving this issue.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: 09GTI on 13 July 2014, 13:49
Hi all , not sure if this is the correct thread to be posting this in but here goes!
I've an 59 plate GTI with 25000 miles not modded and full VWSH, love the car.
The coolant level has been going down and the dealer has diagnosed a water pump replacement , does anyone think this may be related to the timing chain issue , should I be asking to get something done with the timing chain at the same time as the water pump replacement ?
There is also an oil leak coming from near the turbo which they said needs further investigation .... So hopefully that won't be anything serious ...any ideas if that is related to anything with the timing chain , (I'm not technical at all )
Any advice would be great as I've also had issues with the DSG box previously and had the mechatronic unit replaced so my confidence in the car is diminishing rapidly !!
Thanks
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Snoopy on 13 July 2014, 22:41
Water pump is a known issue they fail and leak, no link to timing chain.
Oil leak do a search for my oil leak thread it states the 3 most common known causes. Its now a known issue. Not related to tensioner.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: 09GTI on 17 July 2014, 21:35
Thanks for reply Snoopy
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: ben gttdi on 27 July 2014, 09:56
again after reading this horror story of timing chains n tensioners, it gets me worrying about mine,
its all quiet as of now and still under warranty,  does anyone know of it happening to the later models? the edition 35? I only seem to read about faults on the 09/10 plate cars
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Snoopy on 27 July 2014, 10:04
Doesn't effect the edition35 as that uses a timing belt as it uses the old edition 30mk5 golf engine as does the mk6 R.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: ben gttdi on 27 July 2014, 10:13
oh that interesting to know  :smiley:
so fairly few problems then? any reason for the use of the old engine?
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Poached on 28 July 2014, 20:33
oh that interesting to know  :smiley:
so fairly few problems then? any reason for the use of the old engine?

It has been suggested that the older engine was more suitable in a higher state of tune. Like for like modifications, the EA888 typically makes more power though.

Development time might also have been a factor.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: andygo on 28 July 2014, 22:36
That engine has the stronger conrods, pistons etc from the pure S3 engine I believe, hence its prolonged usage. The mk6 lump will be cheaper to produce generally, so why spend money beefing it up when they already have the older, perfectly good and reliable engine to drop in?
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Jags 84 on 29 July 2014, 21:35
Evening guys I have had the dreaded noise on start up for a few months now but recently it has got a lot worse so I have booked the car into Vw west London next week voicing my concerns about the timing chain problem. I was told they rarely see these come in with this problem  :whistle:. They had a technician come out to have a quick look at the car & was told the investigation fee is £144 however they may need another 4 hours labour to investigate it. Is this correct? I was asked where the car was purchased from? I told them it was a private purchase. He is seems to think I will not be offered any goodwill as the car was not brought through VW or does not have a warranty. The car Is a 09 plate with 66k miles with a full VW history so where do i stand with this? Your input would be greatly appreciated. Thanks guys
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Pld118 on 29 July 2014, 23:26
@Jags 84,

On the basis that you've no warranty and bought privately and assuming that your car still actually works, albeit 'rattling':

If your car is showing symptoms of this problem and your objective is to take preventative measures so as to avoid a near future catastrophic failure of timing chain components and consequential engine damage, then instead of wasting your time and money having a garage investigate, despite their apparent claims of unfamiliarity with such problems, your money might be better spent cutting to the chase and simply commissioning competent mechanics who have done the job before to simply replace the timing chain tensioner and associated parts, which takes in the region of 3 to 4 hours and can be done using VW parts at an Independent Specialist for approx £350, according to previous recent forum posts.

The list of parts and VW parts is on this thread I think.

Hope this is of some assistance.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Poached on 29 July 2014, 23:55
Agree with Pld118.

VW have a set procedure and wont deviate from this. With regards to the 'goodwill', you're unlikely to see much if the car has been serviced outside the dealer network. Age is also a factor.

You can log it with VWUK but I'm not sure it will go far...Book the car in for the parts to be replaced.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Pld118 on 30 July 2014, 06:57
@Jags 84,

On 20 March 2014, forum member mikegti77 posted the below list of parts used/ labour fitting time towards resolving the problem with his car. 

In our own case (my wife's car recently had these parts replaced 'under warranty'/ approved VW)the timing chain itself was also replaced.

"... all prices below are plus VAT.  You maybe able to get anyway with less bolts, they changed what they thought required replacing to avoid re-using bolts.

06K109467K - upper tensioner x 1 (£35.56)

D 174003A2  - sealant x 1 (£28.19)

N 10552402  - hex bolt x 1 (£2.87)

N 10701501  - bolt x1 (£2.64)

N 90596906  - bolt x 1 (£4.87)

N 91029602  - bolt x 1 (£4.70)

WHT001760   - damper bolt x 2  (£4.18 each)

06H109210Q  - timing chain cover x 1 (£60.85)

N91096702 - bolts for cover plate x 10 (£0.16 each)

4 hours labour @ £42.00 "

There are Technical Service Bulletins on the problem which certainly main dealer VW garages can access.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: mikegti77 on 30 July 2014, 08:04
Agree with Pld118.

VW have a set procedure and wont deviate from this. With regards to the 'goodwill', you're unlikely to see much if the car has been serviced outside the dealer network. Age is also a factor.

You can log it with VWUK but I'm not sure it will go far...Book the car in for the parts to be replaced.

Agree 100% with Poached & Pld118...

Your best off putting your money into actually fixing the problem, if you know a good VW specialist get them to do it.  The situation sucks, but it's best to get it put right, move on, forget about it and enjoy the car.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: andygo on 30 July 2014, 10:59
My 09 gti has just given me a lovely rendition of the timing chain rattle for the first time. I'm very well aware of the problem as my son had a new engine fitted by VW for the same reason earlier this year.

I have no problem with having it fixed, (there seems to be a reasonable indie near me in Bletchley), but I'm off to France on hols in it tomorrow teatime.

Now that's a worry as you can imagine.

Can't see there is any point changing the oil as its fully synthetic thats done about 1500 miles. My only preventative measure I can think of is before firing the car up each morning to put it in g=ear, and with the handbrake off, rock the car forward. This should have the effect of taking up any play in the chain, at least for a tiny split second when I actually start the car ...

Will that work?
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Pld118 on 30 July 2014, 13:14
andygo,

I was told my many (qualified/ technicians and non qualified enthusiasts) not to worry about my suspicions that something timing chain tension related was wrong on start up.  The car was VW warrantied to the hilt with roadside assistance too and I'd been told by VW warranty/ the supplying garage that if it failed I'd be covered... so 'stop worrying and just enjoy the car.'

How can you though? My logic was to question, surely people can't want to risk the significant cost of failure and catastrophic consequential damage, notwithstanding the cost of courtesy car supply etc when for a few hundred pounds, many thousands of pounds will inevitably be saved?

So I pursued it and helped by the very knowledgeable Rocket Ross from this forum was supported to speak from an informed position. The aforementioned RR actually felt that our "rattle" might be indicative of a failure just weeks away and yet VW personnel were dismissive of my concerns.

The dealer agreed to review the position, they agreed they could hear the rattle and on stripping things down, different technicians agreed that the timing chain was also visibly slack.  Everything was replaced 'under warranty' immediately.

I've read (and no more than that) that 'a cheap fix' or a 'keeping the wolf from the door' fix is a fully synthetic oil change which can in certain cases, help.  It wouldn't convince me though.

Not a clue about the rocking the car scenario but in the absence of a sympathetic mechanic being able to supply and fit tensioner and related parts before your departure; or if you have no warranty/ breakdown cover, it sounds like "will it hold out, won't it hold out" car thoughts might dominate your thoughts...

Unless your son will swap cars with you and gets yours sorted whilst your away  :smiley:


Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: andygo on 30 July 2014, 18:51
My son sold his gti on Sunday. I spoke to the man at VagTech and he suggested swapping from the 5w40 fully synthetic Castrol oil to 5w40 as all the problems he has had with tensioners/chains etc have been when this oil, as recommended by VW, has been used.

I swapped the oil this afternoon, but on my return from hols (hopefully with car intact) I am going to have the chain and tensioner swapped out in the same vein as I would have had a cambelt change.

Just not worth the aggro dealing with VW who seem to work on the 'If it ain't broke, don't fix
it' philosophy. On the other hand (and I raised this with them when arguing my sons case) why do I need to do preventative maintenance via their service regime? They couldn't answer that one..  :)
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: RocketRossUK on 30 July 2014, 20:56
Hard to see the type of oil making a difference to the chain slackening. So he thinks just changing from fully synthetic to ........... will make a difference.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: andygo on 30 July 2014, 21:52
I realise what you think RR, but on the other hand, it might help. I'm off to France tomorrow, so any tiny thing that might help...

It took 20 mins for an oil and filter change, who is to say its a wasted exercise if it all holds together. If it all goes pop, you would blame yourself for doing nothing! Catch 22.....
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Snoopy on 30 July 2014, 21:55
ITS A MECHANICAL FAILURE. THE TENSIONER RATCHET IS WEAK. POOR DESIGN. IT BREAKS OR LOOSES TEETH. ITS WHY IT WAS REDESIGNED.



The chain design is not great it stretches with mileage.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: andygo on 30 July 2014, 22:20
Yep. I understand all of that, but if my fresh oil is a bit thicker, then it's more resistant to draining out of the tensioner.

Practically, what else can I do?  Bin the hols?
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: RocketRossUK on 30 July 2014, 23:32
Yep. I understand all of that, but if my fresh oil is a bit thicker, then it's more resistant to draining out of the tensioner.

Practically, what else can I do?  Bin the hols?

I know what your saying Andy, but oil wont help. The tensioner has hardly no oil near / on it.

Anyways, I wish you good luck on your holidays. Im sure yours cant be as bad as mine was and mine didnt go.

PS: Im sure you have known about this fault for over a month, you should have got it in at an indies and got it fixed.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: andygo on 31 July 2014, 11:06
Yesterday was the first time it occurred on my car so was hoping for the best, but always had it in mid to have it swapped at the first sign of trouble.

I understand that its the oil draining out of the tensioner that allows the poorly designed ratchet mechanism inside to compress, thereby allowing the cam chain to lose tension. As there is slack in the chain, the cam timing moves, allowing valves to hit pistons.

In normal service, the tensioner is kept tight by the engine oil pressure. Thats why the early symptoms disapear as the oil pressure  produced when the engine starts pumps up the tensioner. Thats why I changed to a slightly thicker oil, to try and help the tensioner retain oil overnight.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: RocketRossUK on 31 July 2014, 11:20
Oil pressure drops after 4-5 hours, so unless your a vampire, the pressure will drop over night  :tongue:

Best thing to do is, put you key in to the first turn, wait 10 second then prey to god and turn  :laugh:
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: andygo on 31 July 2014, 22:46
I'm leaving the engine running 24/7.  :whistle:
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Jags 84 on 31 July 2014, 23:26
Hi guys thanks for your replies I listened to your advice and have cancelled the booking at VW & have booked the car in at a independent specialist. Oh & by the way my wife reminded me that the car still has a aftermarket warranty on it so hopefully that should cover it!  :whistle: I am also going to ask them to do a dsg software update whilst they have it as the car from time to time jumps forward when I take my foot off the pedal to the extent where other people in the car comment on it! The dsg oil was changed at 40k miles. Do you think the software update should cure this? Thanks guys
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: RocketRossUK on 31 July 2014, 23:47
Either an update or a fully DSG reset can be done. A fully reset sorted my problem out,
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Poached on 01 August 2014, 12:52
Hi guys thanks for your replies I listened to your advice and have cancelled the booking at VW & have booked the car in at a independent specialist. Oh & by the way my wife reminded me that the car still has a aftermarket warranty on it so hopefully that should cover it!  :whistle: I am also going to ask them to do a dsg software update whilst they have it as the car from time to time jumps forward when I take my foot off the pedal to the extent where other people in the car comment on it! The dsg oil was changed at 40k miles. Do you think the software update should cure this? Thanks guys

I would be interested to find out if the insurer will cover anything without a failed component. In this instance it would surely be in the insurers interest.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: RocketRossUK on 01 August 2014, 15:46
Insurers will not payout! - It has to be a failed component. Now in my case, the chain tensioner was classed as failed as it was not pulling the chain fully tight.

Just thank god it wasnt a complete fail or new engine would have been needed.  :sick:
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Jags 84 on 04 August 2014, 21:47
I'm dropping the car off tomorrow I will keep you guys updated. Fingers crossed
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: GupSidhu on 08 August 2014, 02:54
Hi,

Sorry if I'm asking what's already been asked before but I've had my 59 plate GTI, 2.0 TSI with 53k on the clock 3 days and this thread has got me bricking it everytime I switch it on now. To the point I'm thinking of emailing the dealer I bought it from to ask for a refund!

It's just had a full service 3 weeks ago and it wasn't flagged up so what are my options if it were to go? I rang vw today and they said it didn't need replacing.

Would be great to hear some precautions I could take to try and avoid it.

Thanks
Sid
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Pld118 on 08 August 2014, 05:03

On 20 March 2014, forum member mikegti77 posted the below list of parts used/ labour fitting time towards taking preventative measures to minimise the risk of timing chain tensioner failure and potentially catastrophic consequential engine damage.

"... all prices below are plus VAT.  You maybe able to get anyway with less bolts, they changed what they thought required replacing to avoid re-using bolts.

06K109467K - upper tensioner x 1 (£35.56)

D 174003A2  - sealant x 1 (£28.19)

N 10552402  - hex bolt x 1 (£2.87)

N 10701501  - bolt x1 (£2.64)

N 90596906  - bolt x 1 (£4.87)

N 91029602  - bolt x 1 (£4.70)

WHT001760   - damper bolt x 2  (£4.18 each)

06H109210Q  - timing chain cover x 1 (£60.85)

N91096702 - bolts for cover plate x 10 (£0.16 each)

4 hours labour @ £42.00 "

There are Technical Service Bulletins on the problem which certainly main dealer VW garages can access.

Sid, if you want to take preventative measures, above is what you need to do/ have done. 

Have you listened to the linked sound byte at the very start of this thread as posted by Rocket Ross so that you can compare his timing chain rattle with how your car sounds on start up (you should listen to your car starting up with the bonnet up and your ears towards the left of the engine bay).

There is no need to panic, you just need to decide if your car sounds like it has symptoms (in which case return it to the seller for repair or refund); and if it has no symptoms you need to decide if you are prepared to pay to have the parts replaced just in case.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: GupSidhu on 08 August 2014, 11:24
That's great - Thanks for the quick response.

If I were to go to a specialist dealer like Sunset Vw in Derby would they know the list of components and kits to get?

Also what's the main dealer's view on replacing the tensioner and chain when it's still under warranty and wasn't flagged up as needed to be done on my last service?

As a preventative measure I think I'd rather pay and have the peace of mind - But with that in mind, what are peoples experiences of them going AFTER they've had it replaced?
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: GupSidhu on 08 August 2014, 15:08
...So I went to see the specialist dealer and he said the car sounded fine with no rattling etc. He viewed the service booklet and said everything had been done and as there was no sound, rattling or previous issues the tensioner was better left alone as changing it might have a detrimental knock on effect on other components.

Went to see the main dealer and they were as helpful as a chocolate teapot. Out of warranty and basically no known problem as no recall. Amazing.

Again, he advised to take a warranty for peace of mind but just to make sure it covered everything.
 
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: JDM82 on 08 August 2014, 16:14
I'm exactly the same Sid. I purchased my 2010 golf GTi 2 days ago and was very happy til I read this thread. I'm now dreading owning the car because I had the injector issues with a previous Audi A4 I had which cost a fortune. I guess it's just case of hoping for the best and putting some money aside just in case.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: eddielewis76 on 08 August 2014, 16:32
hi there guys,

I am going to pick up my new 2010 (i think it was first registered August 2010) tomorrow, had a test drive of about 30 mins so far and am so excited to pick it up.   :smiley: :smiley: :smiley:

After reading this I am a little scared about this timing chain issue. Earlier in the thread it was mentioned that they put out a revision later on in 2010, my questions are,
1. how will i know if my new car will have the revised tensioner.
and
2. how reliable is the updated 2010 tensioner?

should i get it changed out ASAP for the latest revision or is the 2010 revision good to go?

Any help would be greatly appreciated on this matter. i have read through most of this thread and it does seam to affect 2009 and early 2010. i just don't want to be worrying if there is no need.

Cheers guys
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Poached on 08 August 2014, 16:36
Ask to start the car up from cold and compare it with the video earlier in the thread linked on the first post. If it doesn't sound abnormal then just keep an eye on it. Is the purchase from a stealer or private?

The Tensioner has had several revisions (http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=262793.msg2419619#msg2419619), as you can see from the list at the start of the thread some 2010 models have been affected but it appears less common than 09/59. Don't forget the older cars are likely to have had more starts than the newer vehicles.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: eddielewis76 on 08 August 2014, 18:00
thanks poached, i will do that tomorrow when i pick it up. i have bought it from a seat dealer in fife. I'll keep an eye/ear on it after i get it home. it has 3 months warranty so should be ok. Also one of my mates owns his own garage so will take it up and speak to him about a price on changing out the tensioner.

don't think I'll sleep much tonight, can't wait to drive her again  :grin:
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Poached on 08 August 2014, 18:22
thanks poached, i will do that tomorrow when i pick it up. i have bought it from a seat dealer in fife. I'll keep an eye/ear on it after i get it home. it has 3 months warranty so should be ok. Also one of my mates owns his own garage so will take it up and speak to him about a price on changing out the tensioner.

don't think I'll sleep much tonight, can't wait to drive her again  :grin:

You could always take a recording and post it for others to listen to,enjoy the car :smiley:.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: mikegti77 on 08 August 2014, 19:59
...So I went to see the specialist dealer and he said the car sounded fine with no rattling etc. He viewed the service booklet and said everything had been done and as there was no sound, rattling or previous issues the tensioner was better left alone as changing it might have a detrimental knock on effect on other components.

Went to see the main dealer and they were as helpful as a chocolate teapot. Out of warranty and basically no known problem as no recall. Amazing.

Again, he advised to take a warranty for peace of mind but just to make sure it covered everything.

Hi, I'm not sure how the specialist dealer tested the startup rattle, but bear in mind it only occurs when the oil pressure has dropped after being parked for say 3 - 4 hours or overnight.  With oil pressure there is no rattle, even on a worn tensioner.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Snoopy on 08 August 2014, 20:28
As I said near the start of the thread its a finite percentage going wrong you only ever hear about the bad ones.
Either change it for peace of mind or keep an ear out when you start the car when cold.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: davidthegolfer on 09 August 2014, 22:17
Thank you so much for this list. It gave me the confidence to insist that VW pay for the repairs. Fortunately I had just lost power and no damage was done. After 10 days the car was delivered back fully repaired at no charge. Golf GTi Mk6 2010 with 28,000 miles. Thank you again. David
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: GupSidhu on 14 August 2014, 22:27
Generally from the feedback you've received - How many rattle issues/engines need repairing AFTER the tensioners been replaced?

Stuck between replacing the tensioner for £350 or taking out a warranty for the same price..
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Pld118 on 15 August 2014, 09:41
Sid,

The tensioner that would be fitted would be a revised and better design than the original.  If properly fitted you should have no issues during your period of ownership.  In any event, the parts and labour should be warrantied and so you should ask your appointed workshop how long they guarantee their labour for. 

As another example, the VW UK website states reference the "Replacement parts warranty. All Volkswagen Original replacement parts carry a warranty for a period of 2 years/unlimited mileage, from the date of purchase." ... and you would be wise to use genuine VW parts on an important issue such as this, regardless as to who fits the parts.

As for whether to get the revised tensioner and components work done for circa £350 or spending that money on a warranty, who are you considering getting a warranty with (check with the warranty provider before taking any warranty out that these specific parts, this specific issue and any consequential damage in the event of failure is covered)?

Then you need to decide whether you are having the tensioner work done, or buying a warranty instead or doing both.

Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: joe6 on 15 August 2014, 19:54
Generally from the feedback you've received - How many rattle issues/engines need repairing AFTER the tensioners been replaced?

Stuck between replacing the tensioner for £350 or taking out a warranty for the same price..

The warranty is presumably for one year. The tensioner with VW parts guarantee is 2 years and probably labour at least one year. Revised parts now on second revision of design so less likely to fail ever. The warranty does not look like value for money unless you are selling soon.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: andygo on 15 August 2014, 21:40
Paying to have the tensioner sorted yourself will prevent an issue occurring. Buying a warranty will (possibly) sort the problem once the car has broken. Clearly, preventative maintenance is better than breaking down and being inconvenienced whilst you argue the toss with insurance/garage/vw at a time/place not of your choosing.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: GupSidhu on 15 August 2014, 23:02
Thanks for the feedback guys.

Let's say I were to get the tensioner replaced, apologies if I'm asking a question that's already been asked but are there a list of parts for the latest revision?

From your experience, what's the approximate cost for having the tensioner replaced by a garage?

The warranty I was looking at was through Warranty Wise who state in their policy booklet that they cover any damage caused to the cambelt/timing chain including the tensioner. And correct - It's for 12 months.

My catch 22 scenario is if I get the tensioner replaced I'd have spent the money on the tensioner + labour and then have to fork out for the repair bill. And the good old saying of if it ain't broken don't fix it comes to mind. And I agree prevention is always better than the cure. On the other hand if I get a warranty I'll be covered should anything happen with the max payout being the £350 every 12 months.

Decisions decisions..
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Rgdogg on 16 August 2014, 09:19
Don't know much about warranty wise but I pay for a VW warranty every year and it's only £260 a year up until it reaches 60,000 miles, that's with a £100 excess.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Steve140286 on 16 August 2014, 10:46
Iv just bought a 59plate gti with 59k. Don't know if it's had a replacement  tensioner fitted or not as I have no history with the car.  My 3 local independent  vw service centres have apparently never come across this problem. And seem to think if it was a problem you would be able to hear it starting to go?? I'm not so sure they know what they are talking about and just like the idea of a hefty repair bill. 


Undecided on what to do. Bite the bullet And get it done or just keep driving. People's thoughts?
What's its cost to do

Cheers Steve
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: seabrook132 on 16 August 2014, 11:14
Personally Steve I would get it changed for the revised tensioner at a local specialist. Parts you need are on Page 16 of this thread and also on that page someone got theirs changed for £380 so around that sort of ballpark I'd imagine obviously depending on labour rates.

Think of it this way, your car is on 59k miles so coming up to the sort of mileage that most cars would need a cam belt change so think of the cost of getting the tensioner replaced as money you would've spent on a cam belt change on another car. And you can then put it out of your mind and enjoy the car.

P.S you say you have no history with the car at all??  :huh:
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: andygo on 17 August 2014, 09:32
My gti is in need of a new cam tensioner, but having recently moved to the Milton Keynes area am unsure of who to give the job to. Also, is it worth fitting a new chain as well - the car has done 56000 miles.

Any suggestions?
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Snoopy on 17 August 2014, 17:14
Just read that on an american forum by a uk poster.
If thats all the difference is getting the chain and guides done as well as the tensioner its a no brainer as some of the chains have stretched too so replacing that as well is a good idea. It is alot of extra work but that price isnt much different to just doing the tensioner.

Quote from: frog252;1858076
Well I spoke to VW today and they want £2100.... but a good local indy £450 for tensioner/chain/guides so I'll get that booked in sometime this month :)

Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: gtijimbo on 18 August 2014, 16:41
Hi Guys,

I've just been reading through this very interesting topic and fear I am suffering the same fate as others here...

Last week my mk6 GTi seemed to take an age to start and when it did it sounded really rough, then the yellow engine warning light came on. I phoned my local VW dealer where it was already booked in for a major service and asked for it to be brought forward. When I spoke to them the woman said it was still OK to drive as the warning light was yellow and not red. So I took it in last Friday (3 days of driving it around later) for it's service and about half an hour before I was due to pick it up I was told it couldn't be driven as the diagnostics were showing something was wrong with the timing chain and they would call me today (Monday) to update me on their further investigations...

So I found out today they had checked some of the chains but they haven't checked the timing chain or tensioner yet. I am surprised that the timing chain tensioner wasn't the first thing to check.

By the way, my Gti is a 59 registered in December 2009 with 50k on the clock and a full VW service history so I'm a bit anxious and p'd off right now....

So the next step is they are going to phone me tomorrow lunchtime with a definitive diagnosis.

After reading through all the posts I didn't see any reference to the engine warning light coming on. Did this happen to others with this problem too?
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Poached on 18 August 2014, 18:01
Hi Guys,

I've just been reading through this very interesting topic and fear I am suffering the same fate as others here...

Last week my mk6 GTi seemed to take an age to start and when it did it sounded really rough, then the yellow engine warning light came on. I phoned VW in Cambridge where it was already booked in for a major service and asked for it to be brought forward. When I spoke to them the woman said it was still OK to drive as the warning light was yellow and not red. So I took it in last Friday (3 days of driving it around later) for it's service and about half an hour before I was due to pick it up I was told it couldn't be driven as the diagnostics were showing something was wrong with the timing chain and they would call me today (Monday) to update me on their further investigations...

So I had to call them twice today just to find out that they had checked some of the chains (?? how many chains has the engine got?) but they haven't checked the timing chain or tensioner yet. Now, given the topic of this posting I would have thought the timing chain tensioner would have been the first thing to check.

By the way, my Gti is a 59 registered in December 2009 with 50k on the clock and a full VW service history so I'm a bit anxious and p'd off right now....

So the next step is they are going to phone me tomorrow lunchtime with a definitive diagnosis.

After reading through all the posts I didn't see any reference to the engine warning light coming on. Did this happen to others with this problem too?

The yellow EPC light was present when my tensioner failed and codes will be stored on the ECU, it sounds like your engine has suffered from timing misalignment due to the tensioner.

The VW franchised network will remain largely unaware of the issue since it hasn't been categorised as a recall and represents a small % of cars entering dealerships daily.

There is a TPI out for the fault which will be followed by the technicians in determining cause of failure.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: C3PO on 18 August 2014, 23:09
My gti is in need of a new cam tensioner, but having recently moved to the Milton Keynes area am unsure of who to give the job to. Also, is it worth fitting a new chain as well - the car has done 56000 miles.

Any suggestions?

Hi, would pay vag-tech a visit in Bletchley, or Indie Tech in Bletchley, both very good  :smiley:
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: gtijimbo on 19 August 2014, 17:47
So I hear back from VW today who tell me it is the tensioner and chain that are at fault and need replacing. They also found a fault with the bearing case. They've quoted me 910 quid for the work which I'm told would normally cost over 1300. A goodwill payment has reduced the sum. I told them that I didn't think this was fair as I've always serviced it at a main dealer and that I've learnt from this forum that it's a design fault. The reply just said that I shouldn't always believe what I see on the internet. Now I've had to sanction the work as I need the car back but are there any other channels I should go through eg VW customer service to get a satisfactory resolution to this? I can see from the first page of this forum that VW have paid in full for many owners.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Poached on 19 August 2014, 21:09
So I hear back from VW today who tell me it is the tensioner and chain that are at fault and need replacing. They also found a fault with the bearing case. They've quoted me 910 quid for the work which I'm told would normally cost over 1300. A goodwill payment has reduced the sum. I told them that I didn't think this was fair as I've always serviced it at a main dealer and that I've learnt from this forum that it's a design fault. The reply just said that I shouldn't always believe what I see on the internet. Now I've had to sanction the work as I need the car back but are there any other channels I should go through eg VW customer service to get a satisfactory resolution to this? I can see from the first page of this forum that VW have paid in full for many owners.

You shouldn't always believe what you hear at the stealers...the part is not fit for purpose end of. If it had a limited lifespan it would be in the service schedule like a cambelt.

They have confirmed that the engine hasn't suffered any damage? If you aren't satisfied with the offer then contact VWUK. £1300 sounds about right excluding goodwill, the dealer wont budge because they don't want their margins cut into.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: andygo on 20 August 2014, 16:39
After a bit of thought and research (http://www.golfmk6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=55992) I decided to swap the tensioner on my 09 GTi myself. After all, what could possibly go wrong.

I'm lucky in that I have quite a good selection of toolsand a large trolley jack, but additionally I bought a genuine VW crank pulley holding tool at £32 and a 12mm spline tool, which is different to a Torx.

Pretty straightforward to carry out as long as you  take your time. I have some pix if anyones interested. It took me about 4 hours to do, but having done it once, next time would be 3 I reckon. I was going to do the chain as well, but they are on back order for 2 weeks, so I didn't bother.

The result? With bated breath I turned the key. Engine was perfect, no rattles and even on subsequent hot starts is a lot quieter. Cost of parts was £120 from TPS. Bit of mider, but I saved myself £100's.

Very happy with myself!  :)
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Snoopy on 20 August 2014, 17:45
After a bit of thought and research (http://www.golfmk6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=55992) I decided to swap the tensioner on my 09 GTi myself. After all, what could possibly go wrong.

I'm lucky in that I have quite a good selection of toolsand a large trolley jack, but additionally I bought a genuine VW crank pulley holding tool at £32 and a 12mm spline tool, which is different to a Torx.

Pretty straightforward to carry out as long as you  take your time. I have some pix if anyones interested. It took me about 4 hours to do, but having done it once, next time would be 3 I reckon. I was going to do the chain as well, but they are on back order for 2 weeks, so I didn't bother.

The result? With bated breath I turned the key. Engine was perfect, no rattles and even on subsequent hot starts is a lot quieter. Cost of parts was £120 from TPS. Bit of mider, but I saved myself £100's.

Very happy with myself!  :)
inplan to do mine over the winter so nice to know.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: andygo on 20 August 2014, 20:18
I'll do a walkthrough on here when I have a mo with the pix. Used in conjunction with other stuff on the net, its not THAT daunting.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Snoopy on 20 August 2014, 20:21
If you want to do a new how too thread i will make that  a stocky too so it does not get lost in this thread
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: andygo on 20 August 2014, 21:20
I'll try and put something together then, but give me a couple of days!
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Jags 84 on 20 August 2014, 22:45
Hi guys I had no luck with the warranty company as they said it was due to wear and tear so could not pay out for it. So I dropped the car to west London VW yesterday for a diagnostic on the timing chain noise and had a call back from them today to say they can hear a noise but nothing is coming up on there diagnostic machine therefore they need another 4 hours @ £125 to investigate. Also no goodwill was offered. So I paid £144 for the investigation & gave them a piece of my mind! There is a reason they are called stealers!

Does anyone know any good independent vw specialists in west London that could do this job for me?

Thanks
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Pld118 on 21 August 2014, 09:23
@Jags 84,

On the basis that you've no warranty and bought privately and assuming that your car still actually works, albeit 'rattling':

If your car is showing symptoms of this... then instead of wasting your time and money having a garage investigate... your money might be better spent cutting to the chase and simply commissioning competent mechanics who have done the job before to simply replace the timing chain tensioner and associated parts, which takes in the region of 3 to 4 hours and can be done... for approx £350..."
The list of parts and VW parts is on this thread I think.

Sorry to hear of your experience Jags although as mentioned previously, cutting to the chase would have been a more cost effective use of your money, your £144 for telling you what you already knew, touching the half way mark towards replacement tensioner and component parts.

It's also less common for plug in diagnostics to detect this fault, as covered earlier in this thread too.

Doubtless someone will be along to recc you a local reputable Indie Specialist.


Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: GupSidhu on 21 August 2014, 10:30
Hi

If anyone could recommend a decent indie specialist in Derby/Nottingham that can do the replacement that'd be a great help.

In addition, is it best to source the parts myself or have the indie specialist do it? If myself - Can someone provide the latest revision numbers and the link for where to get the parts.

Thanks
Sid
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: joe6 on 21 August 2014, 14:01
Hi Sid

If you find one let me know as I am interested in getting the tensioner and chain updated on my wife's 2010 GTI.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Pld118 on 21 August 2014, 14:40
Sid,

If you trust your nominated Indie then fine, give them the list of parts as outlined on this thread and tell them you want genuine VW/ the most up to date variants of these parts and they should be able to get them for you with ease.

If you want to get the parts and give them to your nominated Indie, then all you need to do is supply the list of parts to a VW parts dept and just ask if there have, since those part numbers were created, been any more recent updates to those parts.

For example, when I got the list of parts from this thread, I telephone the VW parts dept, spoke nicely to the chap working there, explaining the situation and he gave me his email address, I emailed him the list and he checked the VW parts computer to ensure they were all correct and up to date current, before emailing me back a diagram of the parts and part numbers along with prices.

it should be very straightforward.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: GupSidhu on 21 August 2014, 15:24
Thanks Pld118 - I've just had a call back from Sunset VW who are a indie specialist in Derby and they've said that they wouldn't be able to do it and only the stealers can do it. One thinks not.

So if anyone can recommend one in the East Midlands (watch this space Joe6) that'd be a great help.

I've got the list of parts soI'll give VW a call and make sure their the most up-to-date.

Did you get your parts from VW or TPS? Think I'll get the chain and tensioner done at the same time..


Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Pld118 on 21 August 2014, 18:44
Sid,

The info I got confirmed in response to the list of parts you have was from a main dealer who eventually supplied the parts although I'm sure VW Trade Parts Specialist will be equally able to source the same parts.

The information on these parts that I was sent an emailed parts illustration of from the VW Parts Dept was taken from the ETKA [computerised] Parts System, illustration number 109/068.  All they should need is the year of your car, the model (e.g Golf) and the chassis number.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: andygo on 21 August 2014, 21:00
To be realistic, if your GTi is low mileage, forget the chain and stuff like the engine mounting bolts as they should be ok to go again. My £120 parts cost included a new timing chain cover which in hindsight was a luxury. If you are careful when taking it off (its pressed steel, not a cheapo plastic part) it also will go again.

As i mentioned earlier, I'll do a step by step. Its not that hard. but its important to have the right tools.
 
I always look at these jobs on the basis that when you take it to a garage to have work done, the workshop isn't staffed by NASA, just ordinary blokes. If they can do it, so can you and I!  :)

There's a lot of satisfaction in DIY, not the least in £'s saved...
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Pld118 on 22 August 2014, 05:47
Sage advice andygo and definitely, a poundsaving DIY experience can be very satisfying  :smiley:

For those that don't have the tools, the confidence or time to attempt this job, £350 to a competent mechanic for guaranteed work is not a lot of money to spend keeping what is an expensive vehicle tip top, on the road and free from a very expensive failure!
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Jags 84 on 22 August 2014, 09:46
Hi guys my wife called me to say her gti is now falling to start! She said It's turning however making some horrible noises but won't start
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: RocketRossUK on 22 August 2014, 12:26
Tell her to stop trying in, could be timing chain that has snapped. New engine and labor £2000
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Pld118 on 22 August 2014, 13:52
Hi guys my wife called me to say her gti is now falling to start! She said It's turning however making some horrible noises but won't start

If the failure to now start is related to the timing chain tensioner/ consequential failure, if your warranty states that it covers such failures (aside to 'wear and tear') then you should be able to successfully argue that you are entitled to have the repairs covered, provided you can verify that your car mileage is genuine and that the car has been properly service and maintained within approved VW service and maintenance schedules.

Any warranty company effort at rebuttal of claim on the grounds of 'wear and tear' should be able to be successfully counter argued on the grounds that the car has only done low miles, has been serviced and maintained within VW guidelines and the golden nugget I n your counter argument should be the fact that VW do not require these cars to have the timing chain tensioner, chain and/ or components replaced at anywhere near the age of and low miles that your car has covered.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Jags 84 on 22 August 2014, 18:27
Ok guys got green flag to come out & the chap got me to turn it over whilst he had the oil filler cap off, it was making popping noises so he told me to turn it off and said it seems to have no compression so would have to be towed in. Whilst waiting for the tow I called VW customer services & explained to them that I was very unhappy as the car had just left the dealers on Tuesday afternoon & I was told to carry on driving it until the engine light comes on (which I managed to get in writing on the invoice) so the chap at VW was basically telling me to be reactive rather than proactive! Vw customer services are now going to work alongside west London vw to rectify the problem. The car is a 09 plate with full vw dealer history upto date, it has only 67k miles. I am really hoping they pull there finger out!
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: RocketRossUK on 22 August 2014, 18:36
you're very lucky you got them to write it down or this situation could have been a lot worse for you. They should side in your favour and hopefully you will get a good result.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Jags 84 on 22 August 2014, 23:32
Had an apology from VW customers services which made me feel a little better today however got my fingers crossed for when they call me with the outcome on Tuesday.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Scottw on 23 August 2014, 15:20
All these issues are making me think I should go for a mk 5 gti,and have some change left over !
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: JDM82 on 24 August 2014, 19:26
I'm really considering getting the upgraded tensioner fitted now to hopefully prevent the dreaded failure. Anyone know of a good place to take it in the Teesside area? I've heard good things of a garage called Ron Turnbulls in Middlesbrough. Or would it be better to take it to my local VW dealer? At least then it would be guaranteed?
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: RocketRossUK on 24 August 2014, 23:41
I'm really considering getting the upgraded tensioner fitted now to hopefully prevent the dreaded failure. Anyone know of a good place to take it in the Teesside area? I've heard good things of a garage called Ron Turnbulls in Middlesbrough. Or would it be better to take it to my local VW dealer? At least then it would be guaranteed?

Dealer will charge a fortune, just try find an indie who has already replaced one and is confident. I mean its not the hardest job in the world by any stretch but you want it right.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: mikegti77 on 25 August 2014, 09:52
I'm really considering getting the upgraded tensioner fitted now to hopefully prevent the dreaded failure. Anyone know of a good place to take it in the Teesside area? I've heard good things of a garage called Ron Turnbulls in Middlesbrough. Or would it be better to take it to my local VW dealer? At least then it would be guaranteed?

Hi,

I live in Darlington, work Middlesbrough. I used VASSTECH in Darlington for my tensioner 6 months ago (http://www.thevasstech.com), ask to speak to Alex on reception, they have courtesy cars also.  I paid £380 at the time, the cost break down I posted on this thread - page 14 I think.

I have used Ron Turnbull's around 12 years ago when I had mk3 GTI for cambelt change, they were fine, not used them since, but they are still around.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: JDM82 on 25 August 2014, 10:04
Cheers for that Mike, that's great help, I'll give them a call tomorrow.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Jags 84 on 27 August 2014, 16:34
Ok guys just got a call from the vw dealer who said the engine has no compression. So a new engine is required however they need another 2.5 hours labour at my expense to investigate what has failed. But cannot say whether any goodwill will be offered or not. Is this normal practice or will they just try it on at every opportunity? We have no car & they cannot even offer us a courtesy car for another month. This is starting to get frustrating now! What shall I do?
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: gaurav_aidasani on 28 August 2014, 12:56
Wow so the stealers initially charged you £144 per hour to 'diagnose' the timing chain and now need to investigate further? Sounds like a rip off as they should have detected any issues in the first place. You've got in writing from them that you should carry on driving as normal until you see any check engine lights right? I would use this to call VWCS and ask for explanations. And maybe even have a word with your credit card company (if you paid by card) as surely their work should be guaranteed for 24 months?

Which London stealer is this.....I'll know who to avoid in the future.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: RocketRossUK on 28 August 2014, 13:26
Ok guys just got a call from the vw dealer who said the engine has no compression. So a new engine is required however they need another 2.5 hours labour at my expense to investigate what has failed. But cannot say whether any goodwill will be offered or not. Is this normal practice or will they just try it on at every opportunity? We have no car & they cannot even offer us a courtesy car for another month. This is starting to get frustrating now! What shall I do?

Tell them its their fault you are in this position and you demand a car, tell the manager to give you his car and make him catch the bus.

On a serious not, VW always have cars spare, they just say they dont so it doesnt cost them any more money. Go to the showroom and kick off bad, start shouting and swearing !!!!

I got a car on the day and had it for 2 weeks, even got the special edition UP!

Good luck mate
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Pld118 on 29 August 2014, 09:05
Ok guys just got a call from the vw dealer who said the engine has no compression. So a new engine is required however they need another 2.5 hours labour at my expense to investigate what has failed. But cannot say whether any goodwill will be offered or not. Is this normal practice or will they just try it on at every opportunity? We have no car & they cannot even offer us a courtesy car for another month. This is starting to get frustrating now! What shall I do?

@Jags 84,

1. Who is your warranty with (does it actually cover main dealer labour rates anyway, even if the repair works are found to be warrantied)?

2. If a new engine is required and they need 2.5 hours to investigate what has failed, is that supposedly in an effort to determine whether or not any warrantied parts caused the failure in the hope that your warranty might cover works that now need to be undertaken?

3.  I would escalate this to the Dealer Principal at the main dealer without further delay.  You are saying that you were concerned there was a known fault on the car and sought expert main dealer VW advice and intervention.  However, they told you not to worry and to use the vehicle.  The vehicle then failed in the interim period, the suspicion being that the failure arose due to the concerns you had reported in the first instance.  You then had to pay £144 for the privilege of being told you need a new engine and yet they want hundreds of pounds more from you to spend time further diagnosing.  Unacceptable.


Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Jags 84 on 29 August 2014, 18:06
@pld118

1. I have not told VW that I have a aftermarket warranty as the will just pass the buck. After discussing the issue previously with the warranty company they said they are fully aware of this timing chain issue/tensioner with the mk6 and they will not cover it as it is down to wear and tear, they also said to me if I keep driving it with the noise they definitely will not cover it as this is down to driver negligence this was a couple of weeks back before the engine failed.

2. They said they need the further 2.5 hours to investigate what was the cause of failure & to see if they can save some of the engine & just repair it. So hopefully if they say it was not the tensioner then I'm goingg straight back to the warranty company.

3. Exactly that they told me it's not that serious yet as it has not shown up on our diagnostic machine so carry on driving it until the engine light comes on. I have agreed the 2.5 hours at £90 p/hour. So far it has cost me £370 and they are still saying they are not sure if I will get any goodwill :angry: we need the car as my wife is a teacher and returns to work on Monday. Still no courtesy car either!!! How do I escalate it to the dealer principal?

Thanks
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Pld118 on 30 August 2014, 07:42
PM sent Jags.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: gaurav_aidasani on 02 September 2014, 15:35
A couple of specialists in North London have quoted me around £450 including parts and labour if anyone interested.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Jags 84 on 03 September 2014, 21:24
So Vw west London got back to me today after nearly 3 weeks of having my car to confirm engine needs to be replaced at total cost of £6200. They said they will contribute 50% so want me to pay £3100 which I strongly rejected  :angry: spoke to the new service manage who has said to give him 24 hours to see what he can do. I can't understand why they are not taking fully responsibility as it's there fault I'm in this situation!
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Jags 84 on 03 September 2014, 21:30
Also how many hours labour should it take to change the engine I have been quoted 10 hours @ £125 p/hour.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Jimmgc51 on 03 September 2014, 21:33
10 hours sounds sweet, I was quoted 14hr at £115

My story is buried away somewhere but high level I pushed and got 100% parts and 50% labour total bill £700 so keep at them...
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Scottw on 03 September 2014, 21:54
Has there been any cases of the new type failing ?
Going to make it a priority when I buy one..
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Poached on 03 September 2014, 22:27
Has there been any cases of the new type failing ?
Going to make it a priority when I buy one..

None reported but then the mileage on these cars will be a lot lower so less starts.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Jimmgc51 on 03 September 2014, 23:09
I reckon it's sorted now, I hope so cos I'm eyeing the R up now  :smiley:
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: andygo on 04 September 2014, 10:39
Well its been a couple of weeks now since I changed the tensioner myself for the new one. Touch wood, everythings good. Whats most noticeable is how quiet the engine is on every start up, not just the startups with the death rattle.

I took a few pix so thought I'd do a little walk through. Its not hard to do really, especially if you take your time and think about what you are doing. The following should help I hope.

You will need some tools that may not be in your collection.

The first is the crankshaft pulley holding tool. Looked online and there were various ones on offer, all about £15 more than the proper VW one below. Cost me about £35. Its a chunky piece of kit, well over 2 1/2 ft long.

(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y182/andygo/Cam%20tensioner%20pix/holdingtool2.jpg) (http://s5.photobucket.com/user/andygo/media/Cam%20tensioner%20pix/holdingtool2.jpg.html)

Showing the locating pins for the crank pulley:

(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y182/andygo/Cam%20tensioner%20pix/holdingtoolend.jpg) (http://s5.photobucket.com/user/andygo/media/Cam%20tensioner%20pix/holdingtoolend.jpg.html)

(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y182/andygo/Cam%20tensioner%20pix/VWcampulleyholdingtool.jpg) (http://s5.photobucket.com/user/andygo/media/Cam%20tensioner%20pix/VWcampulleyholdingtool.jpg.html)

The other hard to find tool is the splined driver to remove the lower engine mount. In the end i got mine from Halfords. They only come in 1/2 drive which is far too big to get in the space. I just tapped the splined bit out of the socket itself and used an 8mm spanner on the hex section to undo the lower engine mounting bolts..

http://www.halfords.com/motoring/garage-equipment/socket-sets/halfords-advanced-professional-7-piece-spline-bit-socket-rail-1-2

Some sort of hydraulic jack is a must as the engine needs to be raised and lowered at various times.

This is the little blighter that needs to be swapped.

(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y182/andygo/Cam%20tensioner%20pix/oldtensioneroffcar.jpg) (http://s5.photobucket.com/user/andygo/media/Cam%20tensioner%20pix/oldtensioneroffcar.jpg.html)

Here it is with the spring clip removed:

(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y182/andygo/Cam%20tensioner%20pix/oldtensionerexposed.jpg) (http://s5.photobucket.com/user/andygo/media/Cam%20tensioner%20pix/oldtensionerexposed.jpg.html)

And here is the tiny pawl that sits on the splined shaft. Its tiny. If you look closely it appears that the serrations are flattened off which means its easier for the splined shaft to be retracted in service. That's what causes the aggro!

(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y182/andygo/Cam%20tensioner%20pix/tensionerpawl.jpg) (http://s5.photobucket.com/user/andygo/media/Cam%20tensioner%20pix/tensionerpawl.jpg.html)

Anyway, here's how I did it. Took about 3 hours or so, but would be quicker next time with this walkthrough!

1/. Jack car up on drivers side and put axle stand under crossmember on drivers side.

2/.Drain oil

3/. Support engine. I used lump of wood between jack and sump on drivers side. No point in just jacking all the engine up and down, it needs to be tilted at drivers side end if you see what I mean.

4/. Move coolant reservoir and other bits such as screenwash filler neck and carbon filter canister. Its pretty clear what has to move.

(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y182/andygo/Cam%20tensioner%20pix/coolantreservoirmoved.jpg) (http://s5.photobucket.com/user/andygo/media/Cam%20tensioner%20pix/coolantreservoirmoved.jpg.html)

(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y182/andygo/Cam%20tensioner%20pix/enginemountbraketry.jpg) (http://s5.photobucket.com/user/andygo/media/Cam%20tensioner%20pix/enginemountbraketry.jpg.html)

5/. Remove upper engine mount.

(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y182/andygo/Cam%20tensioner%20pix/topenginemount.jpg) (http://s5.photobucket.com/user/andygo/media/Cam%20tensioner%20pix/topenginemount.jpg.html)

6/. Remove lower engine mount using spline tool. There are 3 bolts.

(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y182/andygo/Cam%20tensioner%20pix/removeenginemountbolts.jpg) (http://s5.photobucket.com/user/andygo/media/Cam%20tensioner%20pix/removeenginemountbolts.jpg.html)

(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y182/andygo/Cam%20tensioner%20pix/lowerenginemountinsitu.jpg) (http://s5.photobucket.com/user/andygo/media/Cam%20tensioner%20pix/lowerenginemountinsitu.jpg.html)

(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y182/andygo/Cam%20tensioner%20pix/lowerenginemountremoved.jpg) (http://s5.photobucket.com/user/andygo/media/Cam%20tensioner%20pix/lowerenginemountremoved.jpg.html)

7/. Remove plastic undertray and inner wheel arch liner. Its about 20 small torx bolts. I used a torx socket in a cordless drill to save time.

8/. Remove plastic turbo inlet pipe. There are 2 torx bolts and 2 spring clips, one at each end. They just release by flicking them out with a screwdriver. Then the whole pipe can be wiggled out. Its not a very tight fit.

(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y182/andygo/Cam%20tensioner%20pix/turbopipeinsitu-1.jpg) (http://s5.photobucket.com/user/andygo/media/Cam%20tensioner%20pix/turbopipeinsitu-1.jpg.html)

(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y182/andygo/Cam%20tensioner%20pix/turbopipe.jpg) (http://s5.photobucket.com/user/andygo/media/Cam%20tensioner%20pix/turbopipe.jpg.html)

8/. Remove the auxillary drive belt. Use a 17mm ring spanner to de-tension the spring loaded adjuster as shown. I have also highlighted a hidden bolt behind the adjuster that needs to be removed when taking off the timing chain cover. Once the belt is off, undo belt pulley and put bolt back in to enable access to hidden bolt by de tensioning adjuster. I wedged the spanner on some blocks of wood to keep the adjuster up whilst removing bolt.
 
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y182/andygo/Cam%20tensioner%20pix/deadjustdrivebelt2-1.jpg) (http://s5.photobucket.com/user/andygo/media/Cam%20tensioner%20pix/deadjustdrivebelt2-1.jpg.html)

9/. Highlight timing marks on crank pulley and timing chain cover. The tdc mark is about 4 o'clock as shown. Its a small indent in the cover. It helps when lining up the crank pulley later and also shows that nothing has moved whilst undoing the large nut in the crank pulley. It doesn't really matter if it all moves a bit when undoing as once bolt has slightly undone, you can move the pulley back into alignment before loosening off fully.

(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y182/andygo/Cam%20tensioner%20pix/crankdamperpic2.jpg) (http://s5.photobucket.com/user/andygo/media/Cam%20tensioner%20pix/crankdamperpic2.jpg.html)

Its also a good idea to remove the small bracket bolted to end of sump as it makes it easier to remove chain cover.

(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y182/andygo/Cam%20tensioner%20pix/crankdamperpic2-1.jpg) (http://s5.photobucket.com/user/andygo/media/Cam%20tensioner%20pix/crankdamperpic2-1.jpg.html)

10/. Remove the ally pipe attached to the turbo inlet at the back of the engine. Its 3 small allen bolts. You may need to undo a small terminal  block to get access to the top bolt. There is a thin O ring between the ally pipe and the turbo, Don't lose it!

11/. Using the VW tool and a 22mm socket undo the bolt in the centre of the crank pulley. The vw too engages with 4 holes in the pulley. Its very tight. I used a trolley jack handle on my socket ratchet to get extra leverage. As soon as its 'cracked' make sure timing marks line up then remove the bolt.

12/. Carefully remove the pulley (It's not tight) and immediately replace the bolt. Doesn't have to be tight, I did mine with my fingers, but it's to stop internal gears falling out. This piccy is of the rear of the pulley. Note that it should go on in a certain way as shown by the large V shape on the mating surface. the paint blobs done earlier help here.

(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y182/andygo/Cam%20tensioner%20pix/drivebeltadjuster.jpg) (http://s5.photobucket.com/user/andygo/media/Cam%20tensioner%20pix/drivebeltadjuster.jpg.html)

(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y182/andygo/Cam%20tensioner%20pix/rearofcrankdamperpulley.jpg) (http://s5.photobucket.com/user/andygo/media/Cam%20tensioner%20pix/rearofcrankdamperpulley.jpg.html)

13/. Now undo the 16 small torx bolts that hold on the timing chain cover. Be careful with the top ones to make sure your torx bit is properly engaged as I rounded one off! Once the bolts are off, gently prise the cover off. There are 2 dowels about 1/2 way down. Best to start from there.

14/.  Cable tie together the chain guides. You don't want them to move when you take the old tensioner off.

(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y182/andygo/Cam%20tensioner%20pix/cabletieheaven.jpg) (http://s5.photobucket.com/user/andygo/media/Cam%20tensioner%20pix/cabletieheaven.jpg.html)

(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y182/andygo/Cam%20tensioner%20pix/priortoremovalpic2.jpg) (http://s5.photobucket.com/user/andygo/media/Cam%20tensioner%20pix/priortoremovalpic2.jpg.html)

(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y182/andygo/Cam%20tensioner%20pix/readytotakeoldtensioneroff.jpg) (http://s5.photobucket.com/user/andygo/media/Cam%20tensioner%20pix/readytotakeoldtensioneroff.jpg.html)

15/. Remove the 2 bolts holding the old cam tensioner and pop in the new one.

(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y182/andygo/Cam%20tensioner%20pix/newtensionerwithretentionclip.jpg) (http://s5.photobucket.com/user/andygo/media/Cam%20tensioner%20pix/newtensionerwithretentionclip.jpg.html)

Once its in, pull the small flat retaining clip out and the tensioner shaft will spring out onto the guide rail pad. Its ok then to cut cable ties.

16/. On the advice of another guide, I bought a new chain cover which in hindsight I didn't really need at £55. Anyway, you need to remove the silicone off the old one or use the new one. Either way, a 2mm thick bead of silicone needs to be applied along the mating surface. Any more than 2mm can squeeze out into the sump when tightening the bolts.

17/. Refit crank pulley making sure the indents match up and tighten the crank bolt. i didn't have a torque wrench that went so high, so I just did it up to 'bloody tight'. Its only a bolt after all!

18/. Refit all your parts in the same sequence as you removed them, its straightforward enough. Don't forget to refill the oil. Oh, and the thin O ring that fits in a small circular groove on the turbo stays in place when reinstalling with a smear of grease to hold it there.

19/. Crunch time. Start the engine up.

Hope that helps , here's some other links I found. I didn't bother replacing the engine mount bolts as they weren't in stock and they are only bolts after all.

http://www.partscats.info/volkswagen/en/?i=cat_vag_models&brand=vw

http://www.golfmk6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=55992

http://workshop-manuals.com/volkswagen/golf-mk6/power_unit/4-cylinder_injection_engine_%281.8_and_2.0_l_engine_chain_drive%29/engine_cylinder_head_valve_gear/chain_drive/removing_and_installing_lower_timing_chain_cover_%28golf_eos_scirocco%29/
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: mikegti77 on 04 September 2014, 11:50
@ andygo - great write up and hats off to you doing it yourself, plus you saved yourself some cash. 

I wish I had the skills and confidence to do the job, I paid the money and got an indie to do it for me instead.  I don't mind brake pads / disc changing myself, but the tensioner job scared me!

anyway, well done
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: andygo on 04 September 2014, 16:21
Also how many hours labour should it take to change the engine I have been quoted 10 hours @ £125 p/hour.

My son got 100% parts and labour.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Poached on 04 September 2014, 22:31
Well done Andygo :cool:.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Snoopy on 05 September 2014, 10:17
Thanks Andygo. Thats my winter project.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: andygo on 05 September 2014, 10:19
Winter project? You must be expecting a very short winter!   :laugh:
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: gaurav_aidasani on 10 September 2014, 11:12
I'm in a bit of a pickle here so was wondering what your thoughts are.

I have a 59 Plate mk6 with 30k on the clock. It was registered in Jan 2010 so I'm not exactly sure when the build week was. I bought it privately with no extended warranty.

At the moment, the car drives fine, but I'm starting to hear a faint rattle on cold start up (or i'm going paranoid! so I'll try to upload a clip). But frankly I just don't mind treating it like a cambelt change and get it done.

I have been asking around and got various responses which has got me confused:

2 Indy VW specialists have said this is a common problem on TFSI engines (i thought it was TSI engines but could be a typo).  Anyways one has quoted £450 to do the job, the other £230 which seems very cheap to me.

VW CS are trying to cover their ar*e and are suggesting I take it to my local dealer and get it diagnosed. The initial investigation would be around £100-200 but as some other drivers here experienced, they can always try to ''investigate further'' and charge me loads more. If there is an issue, VW CS will try to liaise with the dealer to see if there can be any sort of goodwill gesture as i have full VW Service history but nothing is guaranteed. Even if they contribute the bill could still potentially run into £100s. And on top of that, the bill to investigate will not be used towards a potential repair.

With this in hand, I was determined to just get it replaced at the specialists. But now a 3rd indy VW specialist came back and really confused me. The guy suggested for me to go down the VW route because he said replacing only the chain & tensioner could be a half job as he reckons the other parts should be diagnosed in case of damage. He said he's happy to have a look, but potentially it could be an 8-10 hour job and a bill of £1500-2000!

Any ideas?

Thanks!
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: mikegti77 on 10 September 2014, 12:14
I'm in a bit of a pickle here so was wondering what your thoughts are.

I have a 59 Plate mk6 with 30k on the clock. It was registered in Jan 2010 so I'm not exactly sure when the build week was. I bought it privately with no extended warranty.

At the moment, the car drives fine, but I'm starting to hear a faint rattle on cold start up (or i'm going paranoid! so I'll try to upload a clip). But frankly I just don't mind treating it like a cambelt change and get it done.

I have been asking around and got various responses which has got me confused:

2 Indy VW specialists have said this is a common problem on TFSI engines (i thought it was TSI engines but could be a typo).  Anyways one has quoted £450 to do the job, the other £230 which seems very cheap to me.

VW CS are trying to cover their ar*e and are suggesting I take it to my local dealer and get it diagnosed. The initial investigation would be around £100-200 but as some other drivers here experienced, they can always try to ''investigate further'' and charge me loads more. If there is an issue, VW CS will try to liaise with the dealer to see if there can be any sort of goodwill gesture as i have full VW Service history but nothing is guaranteed. Even if they contribute the bill could still potentially run into £100s. And on top of that, the bill to investigate will not be used towards a potential repair.

With this in hand, I was determined to just get it replaced at the specialists. But now a 3rd indy VW specialist came back and really confused me. The guy suggested for me to go down the VW route because he said replacing only the chain & tensioner could be a half job as he reckons the other parts should be diagnosed in case of damage. He said he's happy to have a look, but potentially it could be an 8-10 hour job and a bill of £1500-2000!

Any ideas?

Thanks!

Hi, My 2p's worth...

Avoid VW dealer, as without warranty it could end up costing a lot, although somewhere in this thread is an excellent main dealer mentioned when dealing with this issue - 'RocketRossUK' used them I think.

To me you have two options - take out an official VW warranty then you are covered should it go wrong, or as you have done contact a few indies (or do it yourself if your skilled enough - as per 'andygo').  Most people have just had the tensioner swapped out, others have also had the chain. I opted for the tensioner only, some details page 14 I think on this thread.

Pays for your money takes choice I guess, choose which ever option gives you the best piece of mind. The VW warranty will not allow you to make a claim within the first month, you can also pay monthly if you wish.

Good Luck!
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: gaurav_aidasani on 10 September 2014, 12:39
Thanks for the advice

I am also trying to avoid VW dealer as they don't want to commit to anything. The dealer that RocketRossUK suggested is way too far for me, as is the dealer where my car came from.

I guess going to an indy is wiser, is there a difference if I get the chain + tensioner replaced or just tensioner? I guess chain should be replaced only if it's stretched out?

By the way, word of warning with VW Warranty. Was quoted £550 per annum with breakdown cover but I read the t&c's and diagnostics are not covered! So could be a situation like Jags 84 above where the investigation alone costs ££££. This is what pis*es me off with VW dealers that they don't quote a firm price for an investigation.

If anyone else has suggestions then I'm all ears!
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: mikegti77 on 10 September 2014, 12:53
Thanks for the advice

I am also trying to avoid VW dealer as they don't want to commit to anything. The dealer that RocketRossUK suggested is way too far for me, as is the dealer where my car came from.

I guess going to an indy is wiser, is there a difference if I get the chain + tensioner replaced or just tensioner? I guess chain should be replaced only if it's stretched out?

By the way, word of warning with VW Warranty. Was quoted £550 per annum with breakdown cover but I read the t&c's and diagnostics are not covered! So could be a situation like Jags 84 above where the investigation alone costs ££££. This is what pis*es me off with VW dealers that they don't quote a firm price for an investigation.

If anyone else has suggestions then I'm all ears!

They don't call them stealers for nothing! ;)

The tensioner has the design issue, not the chain. Although there is re-designed chain now I believe, changing the chain imo opinion is only advised if the chain is rattling bad on tick over (stretched). I don't think the chain is classed as a service item.

It sounds like a good indy maybe the best option for you.  I'm sure others will reply to you also and put me right if I'm telling you duff info.

Let us know what you decide and how you get on.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: andygo on 10 September 2014, 18:00
If I were you I'd either swap it yourself or get a trusted Indie to do it for you. You really don't need a chain unless you have a high mileage car. If everythings ok now, why swap out other parts other than to big up the bill? If you look at the pictures of the original tensioner on a post I did earlier, it's obvious that the part is under engineered.

There will be no collateral damage to inspect as nothing has actually failed!

On that basis, VW will find no fault other than an occasional cold start rattle so you will have wasted your hard earned.

It's a relatively straightforward job, just looks a bit daunting. Stick to your guns and just get the part that's likely to fail swapped either by yourself or an Indie..

If you want me to talk you through it, pm me and I'll give you my phone number.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: C3PO on 10 September 2014, 18:57


Hi, My 2p's worth...

Avoid VW dealer, as without warranty it could end up costing a lot, although somewhere in this thread is an excellent main dealer mentioned when dealing with this issue - 'RocketRossUK' used them I think.

To me you have two options - take out an official VW warranty then you are covered should it go wrong, or as you have done contact a few indies (or do it yourself if your skilled enough - as per 'andygo').  Most people have just had the tensioner swapped out, others have also had the chain. I opted for the tensioner only, some details page 14 I think on this thread.

Pays for your money takes choice I guess, choose which ever option gives you the best piece of mind. The VW warranty will not allow you to make a claim within the first month, you can also pay monthly if you wish.

Good Luck!
[/quote]

The dealer RocketRoss used is the one I recommended, which is White Rose Volkswagen now called Skipton Volkswagen. I would recommend talking to Ben Smith in the service team, understands the issue. My 59 plate GTI had 50k on, and they rectified with minimal cost to me. As it has been said many times already, VW should be paying for this as the part used on Early MK 6's is substandard and poorly designed.

The rattle I had gradually got worse and I decided to replace before it went, with the garage confirming a slack chain but then also found other things which were fixed.

Good luck and if you intend to keep the car then it's worth having done.

Neil
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: andygo on 10 September 2014, 20:07
Just my POV, but, getting the VW warranty is great, but it only kick in AFTER the event, eg when the car breaks down.

In my opinion, even though you shouldn't have to, its best to eliminate the problem before it becomes a failure. At least you can sort it out in a timeframe that's convenient to you. I can't stress to you how much aggro you can get from VW trying to sort this out after my son's experience on his GTi.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: gaurav_aidasani on 10 September 2014, 21:15
Thank you all for the valuable inputs

@C3PO it's a very small world, just read the service book and the car was purchased new from White Rose Volkswagen, Skipton Road, Keighley! I'm going to give Ben Smith a call and see what he says, no harm in trying listening to his sound advice.

@andygo thanks for the help offered. I would love to give this a go but I don't have the necessary knowledge and I live in London flat, so have parking space issues, although I have a VW dealer a few yards away....wonder if they'll allow me to use their garage :P  Out of curiosity how did your son manage to get his GTI sorted free of charge? Was it purchased through a dealer? Also as you said, my reason for not getting a warranty is that it's £500 and it kicks in only after I have an issue (plus diagnostic costs are not necessarily covered). And it's only for a year.

Nevertheless time to sort this out asap and for the car to sound less like a dirty diesel! And I thought VW's in general were solid!
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: andygo on 10 September 2014, 21:50
Just get an Indie to sort it is the best advice to give you given your circs.

Sons car was just over 3 years old, full vw service history and lots of info from this site (amongst others)helped him build a case for VW intervention. The VW dealer in Milton Keynes were super slow, had no insight and were just after his £££. Because the dealers were so inept and kept telling fibs helped build a case with VW I guess.

It might have been a free fix in the end, but it took about 5 weeks over the Christmas period to resolve...
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: gaurav_aidasani on 11 September 2014, 10:24
Just a quick update

Phoned Ben @ Crosshills and he managed to dig out some information for me within 2 hours. Any authorized VW dealer will need to diagnose it first. If there is a fault in the tensioner then VW will cover 100% parts and 0% labour. All else being OK in the engine, it's a 4 hour job to change the chain and tensioner.

I wish my local dealer had someone like him, they are simply useless and I can't be bothered to go through all the aggro.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: C3PO on 11 September 2014, 18:40
Just a quick update

Phoned Ben @ Crosshills and he managed to dig out some information for me within 2 hours. Any authorized VW dealer will need to diagnose it first. If there is a fault in the tensioner then VW will cover 100% parts and 0% labour. All else being OK in the engine, it's a 4 hour job to change the chain and tensioner.

I wish my local dealer had someone like him, they are simply useless and I can't be bothered to go through all the aggro.

Could not agree more, hence why I drive 130 miles for a service :whistle:

Cannot understand why VW employ people who cannot be bothered to supply a service.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: gaurav_aidasani on 17 September 2014, 16:44
This is getting quite confusing! What are your thoughts?

I booked the car yesterday at an indy specialist who quoted me around £225 to get the tensioner changed. They said they'd give it a start from cold and hear out for any rattles. I thought they would actually come back and say it's worth updating the chain too.

But, to my surprise, they just called saying that they've had a good look at the car (various technicians) and can't fault the tensioner. They can only hear a very faint rattle at start up from cold but nothing of concern. The technician who was supposed to work on my car told me he's a VAG specialist and said he'd seen a few of these cars come in, when he was at a main dealer, and the tensioner had gone only because of lack of maintenance (cars had skipped services, running very low on oil etc).

They said they could have simply charged me for the job (after all it is a business) but thought that it's completely unnecessary and would be throwing money down the drain.

The garage did look very professional, saw a couple of Audi's/VW's/Range Rovers and even an M4 with the M Performance Pack! So I'm not doubting their quality of work.

 :huh: :huh:
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Pld118 on 17 September 2014, 21:27
I would still want to replace the components if the vehicle is not covered by an all singing, all dancing warranty.

Well intentioned though they undoubtedly are, you say they do refer to 'a slight rattle on start up' and - assuming they don't actually have a crystal ball - the potential risk and associated cost of a future failure means that £225 or £350 or £400 to replace the relevant components with recognised revised components is, proportionately speaking, a negligible amount and might enable you to relax and enjoy the car.

The fact you're asking the question could suggest you're not entirely convinced with the well meaning outcome from the garage?


Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: RocketRossUK on 18 September 2014, 10:53
This is getting quite confusing! What are your thoughts?

I booked the car yesterday at an indy specialist who quoted me around £225 to get the tensioner changed. They said they'd give it a start from cold and hear out for any rattles. I thought they would actually come back and say it's worth updating the chain too.

But, to my surprise, they just called saying that they've had a good look at the car (various technicians) and can't fault the tensioner. They can only hear a very faint rattle at start up from cold but nothing of concern. The technician who was supposed to work on my car told me he's a VAG specialist and said he'd seen a few of these cars come in, when he was at a main dealer, and the tensioner had gone only because of lack of maintenance (cars had skipped services, running very low on oil etc).

They said they could have simply charged me for the job (after all it is a business) but thought that it's completely unnecessary and would be throwing money down the drain.

The garage did look very professional, saw a couple of Audi's/VW's/Range Rovers and even an M4 with the M Performance Pack! So I'm not doubting their quality of work.

 :huh: :huh:

If you have the earlier tensioner i would still get the latest one, especially if they are only charging £225.

You cant put a price on peace of mind. Plus you know that you wont get a £1500 bill when the engine need replacing if it fails.

I know he is VAG specialist, but peoples car have failed even with oil changes ever 5k. My service book was fully up to date and mine got really bad.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: gaurav_aidasani on 20 September 2014, 14:00
Well this experience hasn't been the best, stressful and annoying more like it.

I asked the garage to change the tensioner regardless of their thoughts, for my own piece of mind. They called me back mid week and said actually there is evidence of slight damage to the timing chain cover, so I said fine I authorise you to fix that as well (final bill went up of course).

Called them this morning to pick it up, they said car's absolutely fine when they started it from cold this morning. Was looking forward to driving it back.

As I got on to the A road and opened up the taps a bit, I realised a whining/whistle noise from the turbo and a definite power loss between 2k-4k rpm. My foot was slammed on the accelerator and the car doesn't respond like it used to with its sharp acceleration.

Any idea what it is? Punctured diaphragm which doesn't allow the turbo to boost?

It will have to go back for them to have a look at it.........which is very frustrating and time consuming.

On the plus side, no more rattling and the engine sounds smooth but whistling!
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Snoopy on 20 September 2014, 14:32
The pipe to the turbo they take off is not sealing. See earlier diy.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: gaurav_aidasani on 20 September 2014, 16:22
Thanks Snoopy will see if I can take a look at it.

I parked the car and left it for an hour before taking it out for a spin around the block, now the check engine light is coming on (permanent rather than flashing). Is this due to the pipe?
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Jags 84 on 22 September 2014, 21:11
Okay guys a update for you so after three weeks of liaising and trying to negotiate with the VW customer services they finally got back to me and have said they agree with the contribution the dealer is making so I am still looking at having to pay over £3000 towards cost of the repair. As on the invoice at the start it does say that further investigation is required however I was told that the initial £144 was to investigate the problem not to £644 when going to collect the car. The manager at VW customer service said she cannot get involved in a he said she said conversation about what came first even though it is clearly stated on the invoice to bring the car back when the engine light comes on at the very end of the invoice. VW customer service have now said it is between myself and the dealership to see whether they want to negotiate any further. What do you guys think I should do as I'm in a bit of a tricky situation as I have just also bought my first house and cannot afford over £3000 to repair the car at this present moment. What to do?
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Pld118 on 22 September 2014, 21:47
How high up the management chain has your dialogue with the dealer got?
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Snoopy on 23 September 2014, 08:04
Contact the motoring press.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: MartinrobGTi on 24 September 2014, 17:29
So what is the soultion to all this, before it happens? As mine is on 44.000 miles now and hasnt been done i dont think. What can i do to prevent it from happening?
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Snoopy on 24 September 2014, 17:37
So what is the soultion to all this, before it happens? As mine is on 44.000 miles now and hasnt been done i dont think. What can i do to prevent it from happening?
Read the first page of the thread :wink:
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: MartinrobGTi on 24 September 2014, 17:49
Ahhh i've just had a look now. Can i get the the tensioner kit from anywhere else ither than vw itself?
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Jags 84 on 24 September 2014, 17:51
@pld118 I have gone up to the dealer principal and service manager. Had a email back today from the service manager with the DP cc'd in saying they agree with the offer being made to me.

They now want to know what I plan to do either repair at £3k or return the courtesy car. This is by far the worst company I have ever dealt with.

Even if do contact the motoring press it's not going to get me out of the current situation  :cry:
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Obbzi on 24 September 2014, 21:06
@pld118 I have gone up to the dealer principal and service manager. Had a email back today from the service manager with the DP cc'd in saying they agree with the offer being made to me.

They now want to know what I plan to do either repair at £3k or return the courtesy car. This is by far the worst company I have ever dealt with.

Even if do contact the motoring press it's not going to get me out of the current situation  :cry:

That is pretty shocking on VW's behalf  :shocked:
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: chain reaction on 25 September 2014, 00:25
Just this minute joined the forum to say that you have my sympathy as I am in a very similar position and don't know where to turn.

Warning light came on in my '08, 45,000-mile R36 two weeks ago. Drove straight to the garage. Charged £400 to find the fault. Timing chain is loose. That'll be £3200 to repair!

After suggesting that was a bit steep, the dealers knocked £600 off that as 'goodwill' and VW customer services reckon that is fair so will not be contributing further.

I'm happy to keep at them but would appreciate any tips on how to convince them they should feel obliged to step up and help sort the matter.

Take it easy. M

@pld118 I have gone up to the dealer principal and service manager. Had a email back today from the service manager with the DP cc'd in saying they agree with the offer being made to me.

They now want to know what I plan to do either repair at £3k or return the courtesy car. This is by far the worst company I have ever dealt with.

Even if do contact the motoring press it's not going to get me out of the current situation  :cry:
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Pld118 on 25 September 2014, 04:36
Perhaps the motoring press reference was suggested on the basis that if a major garage/ household name chain, deep down knew that they were acting or could be perceived to be acting less favourably towards a customer, then the prospect of 'the motoring press' reporting an article on the issue in question might result in a change of heart by the garage so as to minimise any potential adverse reputational damage from such an article which might otherwise be bad for business.  What Car magazine showcase a 'help' section each month, for example.

If your car was bought second hand, it is possible that VW customer services will oversee to a point but will reach a point where they will take a view that they feel less able to directly intervene because you did not by the car brand new 'from [them] VW' and hence your issue is to do with the supply (or failure to do so in some cases) of goods and/ or services by the VW franchise in question and therefore any dispute is contractual between you and the given franchise.  However, VW customer services representatives will also have Line Managers that complaints and disputes can be escalated to if you are not satisfied with their initial conclusions reached.

@Jags

1.  Have you considered seeking legal advice (sometimes your vehicle insurance, household insurance and/ or Bank provider will provide free legal advice in cases like this.  Did you pay your initial diagnosis fee via credit card because again, some credit card providers will provide a free telephone/ legal advice service)?

1A.  The Citizen's Advice Bureau is also a consideration.

2.  Have you considered commissioning a respected independent VW specialist review of the timeline and having the vehicle independently inspected by that person by way of second opinion on the current state of the car, actual rectification works required (& costs) and events that occurred leading up to the failure to determine whether or not that specialist can either support your argument or suggest a more cost effective alternative outcome?

3.  Have you considered now escalating your grievance to Director level beyond Branch Manager/ Branch Dealer Principal level, fully articulating your grievances to such Director(s) and explaining that you have already and/ or intend to report matters to the motoring press; and/ or seek legal advice; and/ or report matters to Trading Standards & the Citizen's Advice Burea; and/ or commission an independent inspection?

The outcome now really depends on how aggrieved you feel (in hindsight, on the basis of what they told you at the time, do you feel at all that you could reasonably have done more to avoid this failure?).  The outcome also depends on how dogged you are not to accept the current offer and how much time you are prepared to invest articulating your grievances to the most senior people in the correct manner/ in writing via email and not via telephone discussion as everything needs to be documented.

Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: andygo on 25 September 2014, 13:58
I'd be informing VWCS once again about the prevalence of this fault and the number of times they have funded the whole cost of the repair. My son had his done totally FOC. I swapped mine myself. Its a £35 part.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Jags 84 on 25 September 2014, 17:07
The dealer and VWCS seem to have joined alliances and are singing off the same sheet. It was escalated to the senior manager then her manager at VWCS but they are all agreeing with the offer on the table which is a joint contribution being made by VWCS and the dealer.

I have had to authorise the repair at £3k as this has been going on for nearly 7 weeks and they are demanding I either return the courtesy car or collect my car!

I have tried citizens advice bureau which was a absolute joke I am working man and cannot afford to sit around there all day as I did on Monday to be told they cannot see me as too many people had turned up. I had a talk with a solicitor who read the letter I sent VWCS and the dealer outlining the case however seems to think it is not worth taking to court as it may cost upto £2k to get it to court. He also said VW will have good lawyers backing them as well which put me off.

The car does have a aftermarket warranty which said they would not cover the timing chain at the time I first dropped it in for investigation as it was done to wear and tear. They said if I continued driving it would be seen as driver negligence. Could I debate this with them?

Thanks
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: bcarlin on 27 September 2014, 22:16
Can anyone recommend a garage near glasgow/Lanarkshire to do this ?
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: joe6 on 28 September 2014, 20:01
The dealer and VWCS seem to have joined alliances and are singing off the same sheet. It was escalated to the senior manager then her manager at VWCS but they are all agreeing with the offer on the table which is a joint contribution being made by VWCS and the dealer.

I have had to authorise the repair at £3k as this has been going on for nearly 7 weeks and they are demanding I either return the courtesy car or collect my car!

I have tried citizens advice bureau which was a absolute joke I am working man and cannot afford to sit around there all day as I did on Monday to be told they cannot see me as too many people had turned up. I had a talk with a solicitor who read the letter I sent VWCS and the dealer outlining the case however seems to think it is not worth taking to court as it may cost upto £2k to get it to court. He also said VW will have good lawyers backing them as well which put me off.

The car does have a aftermarket warranty which said they would not cover the timing chain at the time I first dropped it in for investigation as it was done to wear and tear. They said if I continued driving it would be seen as driver negligence. Could I debate this with them?

Thanks

You could try these folk. They have quite a bit of clout. Small joining fee though. http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/regulation/sale-of-goods-act#link-5
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Rgdogg on 07 October 2014, 18:09
Had a new timing chain and tensioner replaced under warranty at VW Crosshills. Ben is a top bloke who works there except for the 1 litre polo Manual he gave me to use for 4 days, never have I had to put a car in second gear to get up a hill before!
Car is an 2009 with 47000 miles on the clock with only the slightest of rattles on start up.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: mikegti77 on 12 October 2014, 08:27
@ andygo (or anyone else who done the tensioner job)

I'm looking at potentially doing this job with a friend on his car, when you installed the new tensioner, did you need to make any adjustments to it, i.e. move the spring collar (I think it has one), or just basically bolt it in place, from your write up:

"Once its in, pull the small flat retaining clip out and the tensioner shaft will spring out onto the guide rail pad. Its ok then to cut cable ties."

Or am I getting myself confused?

Cheers
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: andygo on 13 October 2014, 10:37
After you have cable tied the chain in place so the tension is kept on it (as per pix) then unbolt the old tensioner and replace it with your new one. The new one is in a compressed state, held by a small flat retaining clip. Pull the clip and the piston pops outwards onto the chain tensioner pad. No adjustment is necessary.

Its very straightforward and obvious once you are there. Don't pull the clip out until its in place though! Any questions just ask.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: mikegti77 on 13 October 2014, 12:10
After you have cable tied the chain in place so the tension is kept on it (as per pix) then unbolt the old tensioner and replace it with your new one. The new one is in a compressed state, held by a small flat retaining clip. Pull the clip and the piston pops outwards onto the chain tensioner pad. No adjustment is necessary.

Its very straightforward and obvious once you are there. Don't pull the clip out until its in place though! Any questions just ask.

Thanks andygo.

That makes sense what you say, the circular metal clip, I thought that would need to be moved down the grooves (once the tensioner is uncompressed), i.e. to not allow the tensioner to retract fully?

I had problems inserting an image of the clip, but it is shown here on post number 115 & 107 (3rd pic): http://www.golfmk6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=55992&page=6  (http://www.golfmk6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=55992&page=6)

I know in theory this clip should not be needed, only in the event of internal spring failure, correct?

Thanks again.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: andygo on 14 October 2014, 12:18
The clip is only in place to allow the tensioner to be fitted. Once in place, you can take the clip out and throw it away. The internal spring propels the small ram onto the chain tension pad and automatically adjusts itself to the correct tension.

Unlike the early version which you are replacing, it appears to be a fit and forget item!

Early version here:
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y182/andygo/Cam%20tensioner%20pix/oldtensioneroffcar.jpg) (http://s5.photobucket.com/user/andygo/media/Cam%20tensioner%20pix/oldtensioneroffcar.jpg.html)


The one in that picture is the early version which you are replacing. The other one looks quite a lot different, see below. The retaining clip is easy to spot, its made out of mild steel with a tab that you use to pull it out once installed, but not before!




(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y182/andygo/Cam%20tensioner%20pix/newtensionerwithretentionclip.jpg) (http://s5.photobucket.com/user/andygo/media/Cam%20tensioner%20pix/newtensionerwithretentionclip.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: mikegti77 on 15 October 2014, 19:01
The clip is only in place to allow the tensioner to be fitted. Once in place, you can take the clip out and throw it away. The internal spring propels the small ram onto the chain tension pad and automatically adjusts itself to the correct tension.

Unlike the early version which you are replacing, it appears to be a fit and forget item!

Early version here:
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y182/andygo/Cam%20tensioner%20pix/oldtensioneroffcar.jpg) (http://s5.photobucket.com/user/andygo/media/Cam%20tensioner%20pix/oldtensioneroffcar.jpg.html)


The one in that picture is the early version which you are replacing. The other one looks quite a lot different, see below. The retaining clip is easy to spot, its made out of mild steel with a tab that you use to pull it out once installed, but not before!




(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y182/andygo/Cam%20tensioner%20pix/newtensionerwithretentionclip.jpg) (http://s5.photobucket.com/user/andygo/media/Cam%20tensioner%20pix/newtensionerwithretentionclip.jpg.html)

thanks that's clearer

mike
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: andygo on 15 October 2014, 19:35
If you look carefully at the picture of the installed new version, you can see that the piston is still retracted in it's housing as the retaining clip hasn't been removed.

Just a thought  to Snoopy, would it be an idea to copy and paste the DIY I put on as a seperate thread. It would make it easier to find for anyone looking for a walkthrough. (Or should that be a drive through?)
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Snoopy on 15 October 2014, 20:06
Oll try and do it at the weekend when i have access to my pc unless you want to do it sooner.
Geoff.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: andygo on 15 October 2014, 20:18
No rush at all, I've done mine!   :cool:
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: maksta on 29 October 2014, 13:14
Hi All,

I lost power at 60-70mph and suspected it was ECU fault, however the VW dealership thinks that the chain has broke and at worse case scenario a whole new engine may be required.

I have a 59 plate mark 6 golf GTI and have done 53k miles and is out of warranty. Can anyone let me know where I stand and what negotiating power I have in terms of good will and what you all think is a reasonable price to pay. (I know the first comment on the feed says up to £1k, that sounds good if thats parts and labour and assume that is a lot of good will)

I am extremely dissapointed and they are going to call me back in the next 3 hours after using a telescopic camera to confirm what needs doing/replacing.

Many thanks in advance.
Mark. 
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: RocketRossUK on 29 October 2014, 13:32
First of all kick off politely saying its a design floor and you are aware there has been 3 revision of the part as VW know its a weak point.

At no point in the first phone call accept should you accept any blame or be willing to pay anything. Tell them you will raise a complaint with VW customer care / services and go from there.

On a side note- the chain rarely snaps/ fails when the car is moving. It usually fails on start up when there is no tension in the chain.

Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: maksta on 29 October 2014, 13:41
Hi Ross,

thank you very much for the speedy response.

I will wait for confirmation of what has happened and what they propose to do and refer to the fact that there has been a design floor and VW know it is a weak point and that I will raise a complaint with VW customer care services. Am I right that others have paid up to a maximum of £1k for parts and labour when out of warranty?

That's interesting regarding it being rare that a chain snaps whilst the car is moving.... I will confirm once I hear back from them.

Many thanks

Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: maksta on 30 October 2014, 12:46
So basically the chain did break at around 65mph in 6th gear and my engine is a right off!!!

After many discussions with the dealer (and them with the manufacturer) I have managed to get a new engine, however at first the manufacturer would not contribute towards the dealers labour charge of 16hrs x £100 = £1600 but I said I was only prepared to pay £1000 for labour and that the manufacturer know about this fault etc and they are now paying £600 towards the labour so I am paying £1k.

For your info board, 59 plate Dec 2009, 53k miles, broke down Oct 2014, Deal - new engine and labour at £1000 (and a free courtesy car for duration probably a week)

Best of luck to the rest of you!
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: ethmanp on 02 December 2014, 11:55
Hi guys - I'm new here. Names Ethan and i'm after some advice / help.  :whistle:


I've got a Mk6 gti DSG (auto) with 53k miles on the clock.

I recently had some problems with my car and despite it in at a VW dealership local to me they can't 100% assure me that the suggested fix with sort the issue with my car!

The car went in to limp mode having just pulled off a roundabout - car had been running fine for 30 minutes prior and was warm. Took it to a garage, reset error code which was showing as (camshaft related) to make sure of most recent faults and nothing came up when car restarted. Test drove car - it ran fine. Precautionary, had filters, plugs etc changed, ran fine for 2k miles later and no problems.

A week ago, I was headed to a meeting and stopped at the traffic lights. I had the radio on so didn't manage to hear the car cut out. Fired it back up and pulled in to the car park where it began to idle terrible as i slowed down. Manoeuvred it into a space with it sounding terrible and at one stage the gear icon on the dash was flickering between Neutral and 1st.

Recovered to a friend garage and faults codes that were present were:

Camshaft / crankshaft incorrect correlation

Camshaft position sensor implausible signal

Camshaft bank 1 error

The car is in at a local VW dealership and despite when firing up it idles terribly, they are reporting that they aren't getting any fault codes. I've told them the codes which were present when I plugged it in and symptoms prior to the problem.

They're telling me that they think (based on symptoms and what they have looked into) that a replacement timing chain tensioner will sort the problem. They mentioned they took off the covers to the timing and all marks aligned within allowable tolerance. They since called back and told me that to fix the problem it will cost me £1,300 and will include changing the "Timing change assembly and ancillaries". Didn't think there would be any damage to valves pistons. I asked how he could be sure and his reply was we're pretty sure there wont be (I don't know much about cars but this guy seemed over his head in terms of explaining the problem to me)! I was too pissed off to question what the assembly and ancillaries would include. He also mentioned there would be no compensation available from VW either.

I'm going to give Ben at VW Crosshills a call in the morning.

Any help / advice on the problem much / where I might stand with VW paying for part of the repair much appreciated.

Thanks in advance
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Jimmgc51 on 02 December 2014, 18:40
Off quickly looking over it I doubt the the tensioner has failed and I'm no mechanic so could be shot down here but changing the tensioner in my opinion would do bugger all. It's either broke or not and if it is broke or your timing has gone out the engine would of ruined itself by now and if you say its starting but idling funny, when mine did that that was the pistons ragging it's self the shreds hence the funny idling, this was the last sound that engine made.

Furthermore I'd be asking them why your being asked to change a non serviceable part which is only due for a VISUAL inspection at 120,000 (Check you service book) and thus should not be in a state to be failing or being asked to replace. The age old argument if this is the case then the part was/is not fit for the purpose it was intended and thus VW pay not you or that would be and was my stance!

Onto what it could be I wouldn't have a clue, it's funny you mention this cos mine went into limp mode the other day (couldn't actually describe it but limp seems to be perfect) luckily I just pulled up outside the house however the light I had was the 'Emissions' it sorted it self out within a minute or so however in the morning when I started it it was idling funny kind of like pulsing a push of the accelerator seemed to not have any power and I didn't want to drive it. Luckily however the next morn it was fine bar the emission light which has since gone off.

I'm not saying my story is related but symptoms wise sounds similar. I suppose I'm just saying these are very complex engines and something as much as a £20 sensor can throw everything out and changing the tensioner first seems a bit extreme to me, but as said I'm no mechanic just my opinion.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: RocketRossUK on 05 December 2014, 14:16
Just got back off holiday and read 2 posts up. Im also pretty sure the timing chain can not cause this.

All the part does it pull the chain tight on start up. Now a slack chain might cause it.

As said above it could be anything, something simple as a sensor. Have you had a second opinion?
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: ethmanp on 05 December 2014, 15:56
Hey guys,

No second opinion yet - just waiting to hear back from VW regarding any potential gesture of goodwill as I phoned their customer services and they have yet to look in to my case regarding any kind of response.

I called Ben in Crosshills and put my scenario to him. He was extremely helpful and went beyond his duty in giving me advice, explaining things and what the faults could be.

I've since called the dealer where it's at and asked when they took the casing off to check whether the timing marks aligned whether or not the chain was slack enough to say it's simply loose and that the tensioner needs replacing. They said that the chain wasn't particularly loose stationary (not started) but it can be heard rattling about when the car is started. I did mention about a faulty sensor being a potential problem but the guy on services seemed to diffuse it as not being relevant to symptoms.

Quite frankly, I feel completely let down at the dealership where it's in at the moment. Their customer service is abysmal (never calling back when supposed to). I mentioned it might be the timing chain when I dropped the car off and it took them 2 Diagnostic sessions to come to their conclusion (ea @ £120)!! - they ruled it out after the first diagnostic!!!  Now they've given me a price for a fix I asked whether or not the diagnostics will be knocked off in full or in part at least should I ask them to carry out the repair to which the guy on the phone said no.

Once I hear back from VW customer services and if they say there will be no gesture of goodwill - I'll whip it to another garage and report back what the actual problem is!!

Thanks, Ethan

Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: LUB on 09 December 2014, 16:56
59 Reg @ 48000 miles.
Awaiting solution from VW garage, but they already advised a new engine would probably be required. The dealership is already charging me £200 for their diagnostic.
The car being out of warranty means a lot of good will will be required.
Any advice is welcome.

Thanks
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: ethmanp on 10 December 2014, 10:49
Anyone interested in my problem - heres an update.

VW customer services came back with a 20% gesture of goodwill so i was still looking at a £1k repair bill.

I phoned and asked to speak with manager of the garage regarding the poor customer service and told him I was only prepared to pay for 1/2 of the diagnostic fee and wanted to collect my car to take to another garage immediately. (They concluded the same as what I told them when I had originally dropped it in so £240 for confirming this didn't seem fair in my eyes!!!). He said he'd look in to it and call me back.

10 minutes later another chap from the garage called me and apologised for the poor customer service and went on to say that he went to school with my brother and sister etc etc and that he on behalf of the garage could help more than their original offer. He went on to explain in more detail that the service agent the problem - the plunger on the timing tensioner is only supposed to show 3 notches (forgot the word) and mine was showing 4 hence timing being out etc. He said they can strip it, replace tensioner, chain and ancillaries for 50% of their original proposed cost.

I said yes to this Monday afternoon and they had began stripping it down yesterday and should hopefully have the car back later this afternoon! (3 weeks later!)

Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: charlie on 10 December 2014, 12:06
Anyone interested in my problem - heres an update.

VW customer services came back with a 20% gesture of goodwill so i was still looking at a £1k repair bill.

I phoned and asked to speak with manager of the garage regarding the poor customer service and told him I was only prepared to pay for 1/2 of the diagnostic fee and wanted to collect my car to take to another garage immediately. (They concluded the same as what I told them when I had originally dropped it in so £240 for confirming this didn't seem fair in my eyes!!!). He said he'd look in to it and call me back.

10 minutes later another chap from the garage called me and apologised for the poor customer service and went on to say that he went to school with my brother and sister etc etc and that he on behalf of the garage could help more than their original offer. He went on to explain in more detail that the service agent the problem - the plunger on the timing tensioner is only supposed to show 3 notches (forgot the word) and mine was showing 4 hence timing being out etc. He said they can strip it, replace tensioner, chain and ancillaries for 50% of their original proposed cost.

I said yes to this Monday afternoon and they had began stripping it down yesterday and should hopefully have the car back later this afternoon! (3 weeks later!)
glad your getting it sorted vw have got a lot to answer for with this problem. A lot off aggro people have to go to to get there cars repaired
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: andygo on 10 December 2014, 18:22
Chaps, I can only reiterate that prevention is better than a cure. Best to treat it as a wear and tear item and swap it before it (and your engine) go pop.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: ethmanp on 11 December 2014, 15:41
There I was thinking I got away with minimal damage....

Another call from the garage where mine is at, contact was made between valves and pistons so new engine needed.

Fortunately I won't have to pay more than £600 as quoted by the garage as the extra will mostly be picked up by VW and a small portion by the garage.



Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Obbzi on 15 December 2014, 10:06
There I was thinking I got away with minimal damage....

Another call from the garage where mine is at, contact was made between valves and pistons so new engine needed.

Fortunately I won't have to pay more than £600 as quoted by the garage as the extra will mostly be picked up by VW and a small portion by the garage.

D'oh! At least you won't get stung with a bigger bill  :cry: :shocked: :smiley:
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: LMD2014 on 15 December 2014, 23:05
Hi

I don't have a GTI but a 2010 Golf 1.2 Tsi - please don't hold it against me - really need some advice here!  Car has only done 36500 miles. Consistently serviced by VW approved garage right up to this year, (where I went to a place local to my work) Engine warning lights came on, RAC came out, it had started previously but when RAC guy tried, it wouldn't start so it was subsequently towed to an Independent VW Garage. They have advised that they suspect timing chain has stretched, advised approx £500 to fix but if engine has been damaged costs may go up to £1000.

I called VW Customer Service and they advised that they will not discuss any financial assistance unless it goes to retailer. So arranged to have it towed there today.  Paid for them to do another diagnostic and got a lovely call saying evidence of engine damage - no compression and timing out = new engine required.  Quoting me £5k!!!  :sick:

Advised that they will come back tomorrow with more comprehensive details and they will contact VW but they don't think there will be goodwill given out of warranty.

Any advice/thoughts would be much appreciated.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: gaurav_aidasani on 15 December 2014, 23:14
I can only assume you're out of warranty?

5K is over the top, as seen on this thread by other unfortunate drivers the cost should be around £1000, what the indy garage quoted you.

I think you should start with that argument with VW, how can they quote you 5x what an indy garage has quoted you?! Plus its pretty much always been serviced at an authorised dealer.

Normally VW cough up for the parts, and customer pays for labour and I guess an engine rebuild takes 12-14 hours so you're looking at around £1000.

Nevertheless its ridiculous that VW is making you have to go through all this agony.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: FlyingLotus42 on 16 December 2014, 13:36
Hello all,

First post here so appologies if I'm incorrect.

Straight to it then, looking to buy a 1.4 TSI 122bhp Mark 6 Golf (Coming from a 2.5 TDI Skoda Superb from 2003), however, on searching I've seen a lot of posts about the Tensioner or the Chain Slipping and failing. However, this only seems to be on the cars from 2009 as far as I've seen. Cars I'm looking at are below, all from 2011 does anyone know if this issue would have been seen to or would it still be best to preventatively get the tensioner and chain replaced.

http://www.arnoldclark.com/used-cars/volkswagen/golf/1.4-tsi-match-5dr/2011-(61)/ref/arnem-u-541641/

http://www.arnoldclark.com/used-cars/volkswagen/golf/1.4-tsi-match-5dr/2012-(62)/ref/arnfz-u-9119/

http://www.arnoldclark.com/used-cars/volkswagen/golf/1.4-tsi-se-5dr/2011-(11)/ref/arnbm-u-47569/

Thanks for any help with this, been a big worry for me on what I'm hoping to be my next car.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: andygo on 18 December 2014, 17:38
I would have thought >2011 cars would be ok, but I can only comment on Golf gti tsi engines really.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Snoopy on 26 December 2014, 23:31
If anyone would like to dig through the 35 pages and find the relevant details from owners not on the list on the first page I will update it with their info. I simply haven't had time to do so.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Clarkie on 30 December 2014, 10:42
Timing chain slipped or snapped on my 59 plate golf gti just before Xmas. Has been with the dealer the last week and 1/2. No previous knocking noise that I could tell just would not start that morning. Paid visit to the dealers this morning car after they had stripped it down needs a new engine! 40k odd miles... 6.5k

Not long off the phone to VW customer services.....raging

Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: joe6 on 30 December 2014, 17:22
Timing chain slipped or snapped on my 59 plate golf gti just before Xmas. Has been with the dealer the last week and 1/2. No previous knocking noise that I could tell just would not start that morning. Paid visit to the dealers this morning car after they had stripped it down needs a new engine! 40k odd miles... 6.5k

Not long off the phone to VW customer services.....raging

Hope your discussion with VW customer service was fruitful. Under sale of good act 1979:


Quote 'Beyond six months, it's up to you to prove that the problem was there when you received the goods even if it has taken until now to come to light.

So, you may need to prove that the fault was not down to ordinary wear and tear or damage you caused, and that the product (or a component) should have lasted longer than it did.

To do this you may need an expert's report, for example, from an engineer or a mechanic.

Always try to keep the cost of any report proportionate to the value of the claim and, if you can, try to agree on an expert you and the seller both agree has the necessary expertise.' end of quote

So since the chain is not a service item (check at 120k is the service schedule) and failed in normal use they should be footing the bill.

 
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Clarkie on 05 January 2015, 13:04
Stilling waiting to here the outcome.. To be fair the VW Customer Services team have been very good on the phone but holiday period has made it hard to get a resolution. Been without the car for over 2 weeks now and still no idea what is going to happen.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Clarkie on 06 January 2015, 20:24
I tell you, all you people previous in this thread that have had this issue and received good will from VW or your dealerships you dont know how lucky you are!

Im banging my head against a wall between my dealer and customer services and getting nothing at all.

Waiting for a response from the service manager with a detailed account of what has failed in the engine and what has caused the catastrophic failure. I have involved citizens advice in fact anyone that will
listen :grin:

surely this is not right??

Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Rgdogg on 07 January 2015, 09:00
Give Ben at servicing a ring at VW Crosshills, he will be able to advise you better than anyone, he sorted a few chain tensioners off this forum!
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Clarkie on 07 January 2015, 13:51
Thanks for the reply.

Bit far south for me Im based right up in the north of Scotland so they probably cant do anything. The reason for no goodwill is becuase I have not had the car serviced by the VW garage the last two years while out of warranty. My tact is this is a well know issue with this model of car and VW should be doing something about it. FACT

They have even admitted to me what has caused the catostrophic failure.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: charlie on 07 January 2015, 15:24
As long as it has been serviced within vw standard servicing and you have proof of this then the man on the moon can service it. It shouldn't make a difference.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: LUB on 08 January 2015, 17:38
So after a month of negotiating, I got some form of outcome.
First quote was for £6.7K and VW were prepared to pay 50% of it. I rejected this highlighting that I bought the car from a dealer and had full VW service history and that no-one ever ever mentionned the possibility of this problem occuring.

2 days later I had a final offer for me to pay £1,250 for a new engine with 2 years warranty and the diagnostic fees waved as well (as one would expect).

I was hoping for more, but with the car being only 48K miles, I do want it sorted.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Ormy72 on 10 January 2015, 19:48
Hi I've got a 59plate gti with 36000 on the clock .
Had it a few months now I think is the time to get tensioner done.
My question is
Do I have to change the chain as well?
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: joe6 on 11 January 2015, 19:27
Depends what is found when stripped. Sometimes the chain has stretched slightly and then that sometimes leads to the chain guide becoming worn. If so then both need changing. Should have thought it would be OK at 36k though. Worth checking the water pump at the same time.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: layzeedude on 12 January 2015, 15:18
Looking at buying myself a mk6 GTi and just been made aware of this issue. There's obviously a fair few been stung by it but does any one know just how common it is? Are we talking 1 in every 100 cars suffering from it or 1 in 10,000?
cheers,
LD
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Jimmgc51 on 12 January 2015, 17:16
Unfortunately mate I don't think you would be able to offer a %. I'll bet there are others that have gone and people of just payed whatever VW said or after their own personal negotiations. Not everyone looks to the internet for answers and many others have probably never heard of this site.

In short I'm saying not all cases will have been documented so it's an open ended question. If your looking to buy don't let this put you off as I'm sure it won't but personally having gone through this (mine failed last year) I would budget for the tensioner to be replaced and get the work done after your purchase for peace of mind in fact I would use this as a haggling tool. I know when I sell mine the fact it's got a new engine I'll be using that as a big plus so it goes both ways.

It's worth saying here that this issue seems to be only really affecting the 09 models and maybe early 10 since then the tensioner has been updated and thus far seems to have done the job..
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Clarkie on 12 January 2015, 18:27
Just a little update to where I am with my car :-

Getting a replacement engine fitted with VW/dealer contributing 34%. I exhausted all other options but Volkswagen customer services would not budge (ridiculous!) and neither would the garage where my car currently is. It took one last call to the brand manager at the VW dealership where the car was purchased from to intervene and this was my only offer. Not happy having to pay that amount of money but I want the car sorted now it's been nearly a month!

If I had put the car to a VW dealership for the last two services I suspect the bill would be along the lines of what others have paid. It was stressed to me this was the reason for no goodwill. Hope to have the car back end of the week.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Nicksapheno on 14 January 2015, 09:06
if you hear the rattle get it fixed asap! i heard mine, booked it in to be changed and put her in the garage until my appointment date. Went to start her and a crunch later my tentioner has failed and now im arguing with vw australia about why i refuse to pay $15,000 for a new engine. Oh and while its in the garage im driving a hyundai...  :sick:
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: B_roi89 on 30 January 2015, 19:50
Hi all,
 
So my timing chain tensioner has failed and I’m facing a £7,500 repair bill for a new engine…  I’m feeling pretty let down by Bristol Heritage VW who have taken over a month to identify the problem and now seem to be trying their best to make sure I never buy a VW again!
 
My cars an 09 plate with 39,000 miles and I’m being told that they are unlikely to contribute towards the cost of repairs. I have a full VW service history and bought through a dealership about 3.5yrs ago. I don’t feel as though I should have to pay for the cost of repairs being that it seems VW themselves have identified the faulty part and subsequently upgraded it, as well as releasing a TSB on the issue.
 
What would be really useful is if I could make reference to a few case numbers assigned to people’s repairs where they received a VW contribution. Is there anyone who has theirs to hand and would be willing to disclose this to me?
 
Any response or help on this would be hugely appreciated
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: C3PO on 30 January 2015, 20:37
As RocketRossUK advised, the work on mine has started. Good news until Ben rang to say we found some other issues, not only did the chain, tensioner and various guides need replacement, but one of the bearings had collapsed for one of the camshafts !!!! :cry:. But no problem VW would pick up the bill :smiley:. Pic below (hope it works !!!!!) of the wear by the failed bearing. Had it seized then the damage would have been a lot worse. Glad I got it sorted now.(http://i1361.photobucket.com/albums/r675/nwelch376/WelchEngine3_zpse8a18aaa.jpg)

About page 10 on this topic, I paid a nominal fee to have mine changed prior, rattle was getting worse, so if VW contribute towards that why no contribution towards a failure?
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Poached on 30 January 2015, 21:28
Hi all,
 
So my timing chain tensioner has failed and I’m facing a £7,500 repair bill for a new engine…  I’m feeling pretty let down by Bristol Heritage VW who have taken over a month to identify the problem and now seem to be trying their best to make sure I never buy a VW again!
 
My cars an 09 plate with 39,000 miles and I’m being told that they are unlikely to contribute towards the cost of repairs. I have a full VW service history and bought through a dealership about 3.5yrs ago. I don’t feel as though I should have to pay for the cost of repairs being that it seems VW themselves have identified the faulty part and subsequently upgraded it, as well as releasing a TSB on the issue.
 
What would be really useful is if I could make reference to a few case numbers assigned to people’s repairs where they received a VW contribution. Is there anyone who has theirs to hand and would be willing to disclose this to me?
 
Any response or help on this would be hugely appreciated

VW should pay for the engine and then you will have to negotiate just how much the dealer would like to fleece you on labour to repair a manufacturing defect :rolleyes:.

I haven't got my case reference to hand, I may have posted it on the forum but pm Jimmgc51 and see if he can remember his as I quoted this when my engine needed replacing.

If needs be I can contact them and find out what the number was.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Jimmgc51 on 31 January 2015, 18:24
Hey,

Yeah my ref was 09-022091

Shayma handeld my enquiry.

£675 all in for my fix!!

Anything else just let me know..

Jimmy

My Message to Poached last year, give em sh** pal I went berserk with them. Also make sure the garage has ACTUALLY contacted Germany cos in my case the guy at the desk was quoting me +£5,000 based on price of engine and labour etc but when he EVENTUALLY contacted Germany the fault code flagged on the system as 100% parts straight away, this dropped the bill to £1,500 labour.

Then as above I argued this down to £675....
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: RocketRossUK on 06 February 2015, 00:14
This is going to be more bad new for everyone. I had mine fixed under warranty before it  went bang.

They replaced the chain, guides, tensioner and a few other bits a year ago. But over the past few weeks i have heard the noise start to come back.

I cant believe the new tensioner and chain hasnt fully resolved this issue. The car is getting fixed and then buying a solid car. MK2 Ford Focus ST - Cant beat a five cylinder.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Booth11 on 06 February 2015, 00:22
This is going to be more bad new for everyone. I had mine fixed under warranty before it  went bang.

They replaced the chain, guides, tensioner and a few other bits a year ago. But over the past few weeks i have heard the noise start to come back.

I cant believe the new tensioner and chain hasnt fully resolved this issue. The car is getting fixed and then buying a solid car. MK2 Ford Focus ST - Cant beat a five cylinder.

That is bad news.  Presumably you had the latest revision of the tensioner when the replacement was done.

When you say the car is getting fixed, what further is going to be done to it?
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: phil1975 on 06 February 2015, 09:37
This is going to be more bad new for everyone. I had mine fixed under warranty before it  went bang.

They replaced the chain, guides, tensioner and a few other bits a year ago. But over the past few weeks i have heard the noise start to come back.

I cant believe the new tensioner and chain hasnt fully resolved this issue. The car is getting fixed and then buying a solid car. MK2 Ford Focus ST - Cant beat a five cylinder.


Bad news :sad:

Good car the St, five cylinder engine does sound nice be aware that some cars can suffer from cracked blocks although their are mods around that you can have done the to strengthen this problem. Just google 'St block Mod'

I guess all makes of cars have their problems, this is why forums are so invaluable to highlight these potential problems and help to rectify and pre-warn people.

Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: mavs on 06 February 2015, 18:50
My 2009 (59 plate) with 32k just recently started rattling on startup. Made the decision to have the timing chain, tensioner and guide rails changed this week. Whilst they had it stripped down, they also found that the VVT valve was faulty / damaged. The mesh was smashed to pieces from 'oil pressure' apparently. Total cost £600. Can sleep much better at night now though.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: mikegti77 on 07 February 2015, 09:40
This is going to be more bad new for everyone. I had mine fixed under warranty before it  went bang.

They replaced the chain, guides, tensioner and a few other bits a year ago. But over the past few weeks i have heard the noise start to come back.

I cant believe the new tensioner and chain hasnt fully resolved this issue. The car is getting fixed and then buying a solid car. MK2 Ford Focus ST - Cant beat a five cylinder.

your not alone still having the rattle, check out this page...

http://www.golfmk6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=47128&page=24 (http://www.golfmk6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=47128&page=24)
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Snoopy on 07 February 2015, 14:16
This is going to be more bad new for everyone. I had mine fixed under warranty before it  went bang.

They replaced the chain, guides, tensioner and a few other bits a year ago. But over the past few weeks i have heard the noise start to come back.

I cant believe the new tensioner and chain hasnt fully resolved this issue. The car is getting fixed and then buying a solid car. MK2 Ford Focus ST - Cant beat a five cylinder.

your not alone still having the rattle, check out this page...

http://www.golfmk6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=47128&page=24 (http://www.golfmk6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=47128&page=24)
Are you sure its the tensioner or  jumping to that  conclusion. It  could be a slightly different type of rattle you hear that type of rattle is often on Alfa romeos were the variator has gone faulty. It's the same thing as shown and described on that link. I had the same rattle for the same reason because of the same type of part failing on my Diahatsu (a toyota engine) for a few years. You need to go and listen and find the location of were the noise is coming from.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: RocketRossUK on 08 February 2015, 16:12
well i have started recording it again in a morning as proof just in case. And its the exact same noise that i had before the new tensioner was fitted.

Now something on the above link could be correct. If the housing is dirty and not allowing the piston to go back through properly this could be adding to the problem.

This is adding to list of failed components on the golf now. Over the past 6 weeks both of my rear dust shields came loose and caused an awful rattle. Steel rubbing on aluminum caused them to increase the bolt hole size, not a good idea VW.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: goodeye on 10 February 2015, 20:23
I'm new to this forum as my 60 reg GTI failed on me 2 weeks ago. 36k on the clock, no rattle on startup. One morning the engine just died....

Got the car recovered to the VW dealer where I service my car. Now after 2 weeks going back and forth with the dealer and then with VWCS I was told that I will get no contribution and I will need to pay £7500 to replace the engine (parts and labour).

I was told that the reason for no good will from the dealer is that the first service the car had (before I owned it) was done outside the VW network (it was actually done by the previous owner in an official Skoda dealership - don't ask me why). Even though I brought the car back into the network they claimed that there's no brand loyalty and that they can't know for sure what the history of the car is.

One question I wanted to ask about the figures on the first page. Were any of the repaired cars that got a new engine from VW out of warranty and bought not from a VW dealer? I'm looking for precedence for my case (I bought the car privately and wasn't aware that I can extend the warranty)
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: RocketRossUK on 10 February 2015, 22:45
I'm new to this forum as my 60 reg GTI failed on me 2 weeks ago. 36k on the clock, no rattle on startup. One morning the engine just died....

Got the car recovered to the VW dealer where I service my car. Now after 2 weeks going back and forth with the dealer and then with VWCS I was told that I will get no contribution and I will need to pay £7500 to replace the engine (parts and labour).

I was told that the reason for no good will from the dealer is that the first service the car had (before I owned it) was done outside the VW network (it was actually done by the previous owner in an official Skoda dealership - don't ask me why). Even though I brought the car back into the network they claimed that there's no brand loyalty and that they can't know for sure what the history of the car is.

One question I wanted to ask about the figures on the first page. Were any of the repaired cars that got a new engine from VW out of warranty and bought not from a VW dealer? I'm looking for precedence for my case (I bought the car privately and wasn't aware that I can extend the warranty)

oh my god, i feel so bad for you. That is insane. you must keep trying to fight it. Use all the info in this topic and try put a case together.

I wish you good luck mate.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Jimmgc51 on 11 February 2015, 18:28
Mine was bought private in fact I am the 3rd owner and was about 1.5 years out of warranty!

It did however have a full VW service history and I had the servicing done at the garage that repaired it post failure.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Kickers on 11 February 2015, 18:31
Hi all

New to the site and believe I've had the timing chain tensioner failure! 09 reg 58k on the click

Vw originally offered £5500 for repair and after much discussion with vw uk this is now down to me paying £1100 and vw the rest for a new engine.

Question is should I accept this or am I likely to get any more? What is everyone else's experience?
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: goodeye on 11 February 2015, 20:39
Mine was bought private in fact I am the 3rd owner and was about 1.5 years out of warranty!

It did however have a full VW service history and I had the servicing done at the garage that repaired it post failure.

Great!!! Thanks Jimmgc51 this is exactly what I was looking for and you got a deal that I would gladly take any day

Now I just need to convince them that the 1st service that was done in a Skoda dealership has completely irrelevant

Think I'll need all the luck in the world
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Kickers on 11 February 2015, 21:13
Don't forget skoda is technically a vw company so would have been serviced to the same standard.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Poached on 11 February 2015, 21:32
Mine was bought private in fact I am the 3rd owner and was about 1.5 years out of warranty!

It did however have a full VW service history and I had the servicing done at the garage that repaired it post failure.

Great!!! Thanks Jimmgc51 this is exactly what I was looking for and you got a deal that I would gladly take any day

Now I just need to convince them that the 1st service that was done in a Skoda dealership has completely irrelevant

Think I'll need all the luck in the world

It's not ideal but it was serviced within VAG so it shouldn't matter because of a technicality but I'm not surprised they try it on. I would consider legal advice if I was faced with that bill for a design fault and they came back with that answer.

The dealership don't care and are allowed to profiteer from this. They will do whatever they can get away with to hit their figures for the month. Keep us updated.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: goodeye on 14 February 2015, 12:10
Mine was bought private in fact I am the 3rd owner and was about 1.5 years out of warranty!

It did however have a full VW service history and I had the servicing done at the garage that repaired it post failure.

Great!!! Thanks Jimmgc51 this is exactly what I was looking for and you got a deal that I would gladly take any day

Now I just need to convince them that the 1st service that was done in a Skoda dealership has completely irrelevant

Think I'll need all the luck in the world

It's not ideal but it was serviced within VAG so it shouldn't matter because of a technicality but I'm not surprised they try it on. I would consider legal advice if I was faced with that bill for a design fault and they came back with that answer.

The dealership don't care and are allowed to profiteer from this. They will do whatever they can get away with to hit their figures for the month. Keep us updated.

VWCS called me yesterday after I wrote them a very long and detailed email including the VW technical bulletin about this issue (TB 15-12-01) and telling them that if the VW garage, where I serviced the car last June, had told me that I could replace the parts and avoid this huge damage I would've done it. No brainer

Their reply is still a big fat 0 !!!! throwing all the cost on me

I'm planning my next moves and thinking of going to citizen advice bureau but I'm not sure what else I can do....

Is there anyone else on this forum that got this kind of treatment or ended up having to pay for the repair? From reading through the forum it seems like everybody got a new engine FOC and just had to pay some percentage of the labour
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: RocketRossUK on 17 February 2015, 22:11
Can people who have had the work carried out confirm what part number their chain was:

mine was 06H-109-158-AA. But im sure there has been some newer revision but i cant seem to find out if they are for MK6 GTI.

Google shows: 06H-109-158-AD, 06H-109-158-H, 06H-109-158-M
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: B_roi89 on 21 February 2015, 23:21
Goodeye - my 09 plate failed just before xmas. Two months of arguing with VW dealership and customer services and end result is £0 contribution..

I have a full VW service history but was told I showed no brand loyalty as it was serviced in different VW dealerships in different cities....

Some very kind people on here sent me their case reference numbers where they had 100% contribution but the response was that they couldn't discuss other cases due to confidentiality.

I fully appreciate they have no legal obligation to contribute to repairs as i am out of warranty - but this is a recognised problem and some sort of legal precedent must have been set by upgrading the part, releasing a tsb, and contributing to other's repairs?!

I feel so let down by VW Heritage Bristol. They are completely understaffed following a large proportion of their staff leaving before xmas.. (i wonder if they had dodgy golfs?).. They haven't even been able to provide me with a quote for the cost of repairs - do they not want the work???

I was out in the market for a new car and seriously considering a new GTD - I guess it's their loss as i'll never buy a VW again. It seems like a rather short sighted decision from them. At least a £500 would show some compassion on their behalf.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Snoopy on 22 February 2015, 12:32
Maybe contact the magazines and TV,  Autoexpress, Autocar, watchdog etc.


If  anyone here has some spare time on there hands and can list the new cases not listed on the original post so rocketrossuk or myself or  a moderator can update the original post that would be a lot of help to others.
Last update of the original thread was 23 may 2014
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Rhyso on 22 February 2015, 13:08
I feel like broken recordi this thread but....

CONTACT YOUR LOCAL TRADING STANDARDS
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: chris1h on 22 February 2015, 14:07
Mines a 2011, with 35k on the clock. I keep listening every now and again for the rattle.  :sad:   Its a pain in the ass thinking one day it might go   :cry: 
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: RocketRossUK on 22 February 2015, 19:42
**UPDATE**

I have had my car in at VW this week, dropped it off Thursday because the chain rattle had come back on mine even though I have had all the latest parts fitted in January last year. (chains, tensioner, guides etc)

Got the call from Ben @ VW Crosshills and he told me the chain and tensioner are fine, they need to look into it further. Got a call about two hours later, they said they think they have found the problem. They said that the magnet piston on the side of the engine that moves the camshaft has a gauze on the end of it, that has come off. They have found it, but they dont know if it has caused any further damage.

They are going to take the head off and have a look and see if their is any damage, if there is they will replace any and every part under warranty. So fingers crossed i get some good news on Monday.

What a sh1t engine the TSi is......

Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: AndrewDunn on 23 February 2015, 16:17
Well..... heres another for the pot.. My 59 plate GTI with 59k has died, last thursday. 19/2/2015
I took it to my local VW garage Hawco's inverness an had to pay them to tell me what was wrong... after me already telling them. They have just called me to tell me that there is no goodwill on off an that it will be £6.5k for the engine plus labour. Also stating that the inlet manifold is damaged needing replacement (this would have occurred due to the time being out an a backfire). They have stated it is due to the cam tensioner pulley. Am i to assume by the way this topic is going that VW have run out of goodwill where the TSI is concerned? i cannot understand why this has not been a recall on all the engines?!?! I don't seem to be able to get anywhere with customer services either. If this persists i shall be seeking instruction from a solicitor an think it might be worthwhile with other people who are struggling to get anywhere with VW clubbing together to form a group case. Take it to the papers etc.
Does anyone have any further advice? so glad i found this on the forum or i would have been sourcing a 2nd hand engine an fitting it myself.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: goodeye on 26 February 2015, 19:19
Well..... heres another for the pot.. My 59 plate GTI with 59k has died, last thursday. 19/2/2015
I took it to my local VW garage Hawco's inverness an had to pay them to tell me what was wrong... after me already telling them. They have just called me to tell me that there is no goodwill on off an that it will be £6.5k for the engine plus labour. Also stating that the inlet manifold is damaged needing replacement (this would have occurred due to the time being out an a backfire). They have stated it is due to the cam tensioner pulley. Am i to assume by the way this topic is going that VW have run out of goodwill where the TSI is concerned? i cannot understand why this has not been a recall on all the engines?!?! I don't seem to be able to get anywhere with customer services either. If this persists i shall be seeking instruction from a solicitor an think it might be worthwhile with other people who are struggling to get anywhere with VW clubbing together to form a group case. Take it to the papers etc.
Does anyone have any further advice? so glad i found this on the forum or i would have been sourcing a 2nd hand engine an fitting it myself.

Hi AndrewDunn,

Sorry to hear this. I've been battling with VWCS for over a month and no movement from their side. I posted on their facebook and twitter but even that didn't move them. I'm going to CAB tomorrow morning to seek legal advice because I don't think they should be able to get away with it

There's 3 of us on this forum who are in the same situation. You, me and B_roi89. I'd be more than happy to go together

Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: goodeye on 26 February 2015, 19:27
Goodeye - my 09 plate failed just before xmas. Two months of arguing with VW dealership and customer services and end result is £0 contribution..

I have a full VW service history but was told I showed no brand loyalty as it was serviced in different VW dealerships in different cities....

Some very kind people on here sent me their case reference numbers where they had 100% contribution but the response was that they couldn't discuss other cases due to confidentiality.

I fully appreciate they have no legal obligation to contribute to repairs as i am out of warranty - but this is a recognised problem and some sort of legal precedent must have been set by upgrading the part, releasing a tsb, and contributing to other's repairs?!

I feel so let down by VW Heritage Bristol. They are completely understaffed following a large proportion of their staff leaving before xmas.. (i wonder if they had dodgy golfs?).. They haven't even been able to provide me with a quote for the cost of repairs - do they not want the work???

I was out in the market for a new car and seriously considering a new GTD - I guess it's their loss as i'll never buy a VW again. It seems like a rather short sighted decision from them. At least a £500 would show some compassion on their behalf.

My strongest argument was why the VW dealer didn't warn me about this time bomb ticking underneath my bonnet.... They're doing whatever they can to avoid an answer to this question
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Scottw on 26 February 2015, 20:26
I can safely say that all these problems have put me of a gti
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Snoopy on 01 March 2015, 13:31
I can safely say that all these problems have put me of a gti
service it like a cambelt and it will probably be fine.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: RocketRossUK on 04 March 2015, 18:51
**UPDATE**

**UPDATE**

I have had my car in at VW this week, dropped it off Thursday because the chain rattle had come back on mine even though I have had all the latest parts fitted in January last year. (chains, tensioner, guides etc)

Got the call from Ben @ VW Crosshills and he told me the chain and tensioner are fine, they need to look into it further. Got a call about two hours later, they said they think they have found the problem. They said that the magnet piston on the side of the engine that moves the camshaft has a gauze on the end of it, that has come off. They have found it, but they dont know if it has caused any further damage.

They are going to take the head off and have a look and see if their is any damage, if there is they will replace any and every part under warranty. So fingers crossed i get some good news on Monday.

What a sh1t engine the TSi is......



NEW UPDATE - 03/02/2015

So it turns out the Gauze on the bearing housing had cracked and come off, luckily is hadn't gone far, it got stuck at the end of the tunnel so was easy to pick out. Martin the head tech at VW Crosshills explained that yet again it is another bad design by VW and there has been two revisions to the bearing housing since 2009.

This is the damage, you can see that 90% of the gauze had gone. :angry: :angry:

(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k489/rocketrossuk/49b2d77d900b230b074eac87a2e81153_zpsfxcjdwyy.png)


So they replace the bearing bush housing and the magnet (said they have to buy as a set). they were both fitted the next day and all seemed well, no rattle on start up and engine sounded fine. I got about 7 miles down the road and engine management light came on. So I scanned it when I got home and it threw this error code:

1 Fault Found:
000017 - Bank 1: Camshaft A (Intake): Retard Setpoint not Reached (Over-Advanced)
               P0011 - 000 -  -  - MIL ON


Googled it and it came back with a few causes, mainly timing issue. Spoke to Ben at VW and he said bring it back and we will have a look again.

The head tech spend two days looking into and couldn't find an issue with the timing or anything else in the engine. To cut this story short he finally got to the bottom of it. It was caused by the below part not opening and shutting properly, the part is called Central Valve (for the cam) Part number: 06H 109 257 C. After replacing that the car has been starting and running sweet. So great job by the guys at VW Crosshills again. Cant thank them enough.

I just wanted to post this if anyone else who has had the timing chain done and then the noise comes back 6+ months later.

It will either be the Cam Shaft Magnet Assembly or this little valve thing:

(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k489/rocketrossuk/IMG_2007_zpspihxn6t9.jpg)
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: andygo on 04 March 2015, 20:20
Considering that forum members are a very small sample of owners of the engine in question - not just GTi's - its all a bit worrying. The cars in question for tensioner failures are getting a bit older, a bit more out of warranty, and bit less likely to attract VW's attention.

I realise that VW can't warranty cars forever, but it all gets a bit fundamental when a component goes pop and its a £7k bill...

I have to say that my 09 MK6, whilst a mollycoddled and pristine example has cost me more in preventative maintenance than the 3 previous MK5's in total. Rear ARB droplinks are next on the fix list...

Cayman for me next I think rather than  a mk7. I've had 7 other gti's, ranging from a mk1 through to mk 6, whilst wifey has had about 5 golf estates with her job. Bit of a change in mindset to move from the brand.

Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: darrent on 04 March 2015, 22:56


Cayman for me next I think rather than  a mk7. I've had 7 other gti's, ranging from a mk1 through to mk 6, whilst wifey has had about 5 golf estates with her job. Bit of a change in mindset to move from the brand.
:whistle: Cayman you say http://www.hartech.org/porsche_996_997_Boxster_engine_rebuilds_and_repairs.html
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Snoopy on 05 March 2015, 04:53
Considering that forum members are a very small sample of owners of the engine in question - not just GTi's - its all a bit worrying. The cars in question for tensioner failures are getting a bit older, a bit more out of warranty, and bit less likely to attract VW's attention.

I realise that VW can't warranty cars forever, but it all gets a bit fundamental when a component goes pop and its a £7k bill...

I have to say that my 09 MK6, whilst a mollycoddled and pristine example has cost me more in preventative maintenance than the 3 previous MK5's in total. Rear ARB droplinks are next on the fix list...

Cayman for me next I think rather than  a mk7. I've had 7 other gti's, ranging from a mk1 through to mk 6, whilst wifey has had about 5 golf estates with her job. Bit of a change in mindset to move from the brand.
what preventative maintenance are you referring  too? Mk5 suffer everything the 6 does except the tensioner and it has cam follower issues instead, as well as cambelt tensioner  noises. Cam ware on the first year engines etc etc.
Tensioner change on a 6 is no more expensive  than a cambelt change on any of the previous mk GTIs.
My mk4 based leon, the mk4 have camshaft ware issues and turbo issues just to name a few but its been in the family for 10 years now and the cars been faultless its why i still have it. The mk1 and 2 had oil pump issues which was also catastrophic. Mines been fine in 24 years of ownership. Its the luck of the draw.
The difference is the internet points these issues out were you would not get to hear about them before.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: EleanorGTI on 21 March 2015, 09:27
Just picked up my Mk6 last week and did service on it yesterday. Very conscious of the risks surrounding the tensioner failures as posted on this forum so the plan for me is to open the bonnet say once a week and start up the engine whilst carefully listening for the warning noise.

I'm also keen to get a coding device and run a check using this once a week to see if that can detect anything adverse.

Does anyone have any suggestions for what coder to get for a Mk6? Any responses appreciated & thanks in advance.


Eleanor

Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: RocketRossUK on 21 March 2015, 10:39
No coder will tell you mate, only visual inspection of the tensioner.

If its 09,59 or 10 plate i would just pay to get the tensioner and surrounding parts changed asap.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Poached on 21 March 2015, 19:05
Just picked up my Mk6 last week and did service on it yesterday. Very conscious of the risks surrounding the tensioner failures as posted on this forum so the plan for me is to open the bonnet say once a week and start up the engine whilst carefully listening for the warning noise.

I'm also keen to get a coding device and run a check using this once a week to see if that can detect anything adverse.

Does anyone have any suggestions for what coder to get for a Mk6? Any responses appreciated & thanks in advance.


Eleanor

If you're after something to view/clear faults then one of these readers will be useful:

https://www.gendan.co.uk/product_VAGT55.html

Alternatively you could get the comprehensive dealership level diagnostic tool for VAG called VCDS:

http://www.gendan.co.uk/product_VCHU.html
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: EleanorGTI on 21 March 2015, 19:26
That's really useful thanks!  :smiley:
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: RocketRossUK on 21 March 2015, 20:12
Just picked up my Mk6 last week and did service on it yesterday. Very conscious of the risks surrounding the tensioner failures as posted on this forum so the plan for me is to open the bonnet say once a week and start up the engine whilst carefully listening for the warning noise.

I'm also keen to get a coding device and run a check using this once a week to see if that can detect anything adverse.

Does anyone have any suggestions for what coder to get for a Mk6? Any responses appreciated & thanks in advance.


Eleanor

If you're after something to view/clear faults then one of these readers will be useful:

https://www.gendan.co.uk/product_VAGT55.html

Alternatively you could get the comprehensive dealership level diagnostic tool for VAG called VCDS:

http://www.gendan.co.uk/product_VCHU.html


^^^^^^ non of these can prevent you from knowing if the timing chain is going slip and cause your engine to go bang.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Poached on 21 March 2015, 21:56
I know, to me the statement about the code reader wasn't exclusive to the timing chain.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: RocketRossUK on 23 March 2015, 21:36
I know, to me the statement about the code reader wasn't exclusive to the timing chain.

Ah ok, my bad.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: tyrwhittali on 25 March 2015, 21:08
Our Golf died two weeks ago and the garage has now confirmed that the timing chain has spilled and the whole engine needs to be replaced.

We had originally mentioned to them that we were aware of the known issue with the timing belt when we dropped if off, so having told us a complete engine replace would be £8,000 when we asked upfront, they immediately in with an offer of that we pay just £4,050 (just!). Based on what other people have been offered we think these seems high? But then we are getting something compared to other people who are struggling to get anything.

It's an 09 place (although registered in the June) and has always been serviced at VW.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: JIMMYBRODIE on 26 March 2015, 13:58
Has anyone had experience with this issue when they have a 3rd party warranty on the car? Also what's the rough price to change the tensioner which I might consider doing yearly, I'm sure there would be some kind of guarantee on the new parts to cover the potential issue.

I've not had mine done yet and I'm at 70k, any experience and advice would be welcomed?

Thanks
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Jimmgc51 on 26 March 2015, 15:47
Unsure on 3rd party however I wouldn't rely on it.

Price wise you'll need to read this lengthy post many people have listed what there paying at inddy garages including part numbers etc of whats required. Off memory about £300
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: na_s on 28 March 2015, 17:41
surely purchasing vw's approved used warranty will cover this sort of thing? I'm struggling to understand why with the knowledge of this issue, people don't purchase it, in light of the potential bill its peanuts. I was quoted £370 for the year (fully comp).

Can't do online quotes but worth calling up 0845 641 9767
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: chris1h on 28 March 2015, 19:52
surely purchasing vw's approved used warranty will cover this sort of thing? I'm struggling to understand why with the knowledge of this issue, people don't purchase it, in light of the potential bill its peanuts. I was quoted £370 for the year (fully comp).

Can't do online quotes but worth calling up 0845 641 9767

 i have just purcahsed vd approved warrenty the highest type for around £360 with road side assistance. hopefully will cover when mine goes bang! :shocked:
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: andygo on 28 March 2015, 20:30
Whilst I understand the thinking behind purchasing a warranty, surely it must be better to spend the money swapping the worrying part rather than being recovered to a VW garage and waiting for the car to be fixed. Preventative maintenance...
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: JIMMYBRODIE on 28 March 2015, 20:57
Simple really, £300+ for a warranty that covers everything or the same cash to repair the parts that may go agin within 12 months.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: na_s on 28 March 2015, 23:25
Whilst I understand the thinking behind purchasing a warranty, surely it must be better to spend the money swapping the worrying part rather than being recovered to a VW garage and waiting for the car to be fixed. Preventative maintenance...

as above, given the small variance in price, warranty would be a better purchase. I'd even say the part plus labour to fit it could possibly tip the warranty price so the cover is essentially your "preventative maintenance" for this. The drive line cover is under £300 which is the obvious cheaper alternative if this is the only area of concern.




Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Scottw on 29 March 2015, 09:51
Are you 100% sure the parts are covered,warranties aren't worth the paper there on, they may still want 50% of you.....£4000 !!
Every service by vw? On time not late ?
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: andygo on 29 March 2015, 10:36
I understand the point of a warranty, but for the sake of swapping the weak link before it breaks means you are not without your car at a time (and place) that's inconvenient to you.

I'd much rather the car be off the road for a day that suits me than for at least a week and with the car miles from home. Much less stressful.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Poached on 29 March 2015, 14:10
Are you 100% sure the parts are covered,warranties aren't worth the paper there on, they may still want 50% of you.....£4000 !!
Every service by vw? On time not late ?

From whats been written on here and other places the manufacturer warranties seem to be more reliable. Like any 'warranty' you have to check the small print. The aftermarket warranties are full of clauses and the cover decreases with age/mileage so not always worth it, for example the definition of wear & tear is often used broadly to avoid paying out. I suspect that the tensioner would be covered by a decent warranty and you can always check before purchasing.

If your car has been serviced outside of VW then I don't think you can take out a policy.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Dubbit on 31 March 2015, 12:49
Hi, I have read most of this thread & in quite a panic as I own a 2009 Gti.

I have phoned my local Citygate, who say they dont know anything & then I spoke to VW customer services & tried to explain to them, who also said there was nothing on the system about this.

My Citygate told me it would be £1500 to replace the tensioner & was a big job & as I can see from the guide on this thread that is a lie as the job doesnt look that complicated atall to replace just the tensioner.

I dont know where to go next with this. Obviously I want the tensioner updated but I cant see VW giving me any help money wise.

I really feel for the people whove had their engines destroyed & disgusting how theyve been forced to pay out. :angry:

Any recommendation for a decent specialist in NW London area?

AMD in Harrow quoted me 800 for the chain & tensioner & 600 just for the tensioner. They reckon the chain had also been updated so thinks that also has an issue.
big leap from £300 talked about on here.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: JIMMYBRODIE on 31 March 2015, 15:07
I'm pretty much in the same boat, it's there an aftermarket upgrade that would cure the problem long term? These engines are raced and driven hard, surely there is an option.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: andygo on 31 March 2015, 18:37
I fitted the updated tensioner in a morning which although a bit of a faff, would be a lot easier if I were to do it again as I now know the method rather than working a lot out on the fly. It's a £300 job, so on a par with a cam belt.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: RocketRossUK on 31 March 2015, 21:50

big leap from £300 talked about on here.

London prices mate and garages taking advantage of your fear.

£300-400 people have been quoted in the Yorkshire area, can be all done in 2 hours, so god know where they get £800 from.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Dubbit on 31 March 2015, 22:51
I think you are right they are just capitalising on my fear. I will try a few smaller places for a quote.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: gaurav_aidasani on 01 April 2015, 10:48
Dubbit avoid VW they're a bunch of .....
They dont want to acknowledge the problem and said come in for a diagnostic (at 150 per hour) first. If they see a problem they'll change it for about 1k. VW CS didn't want to commit to whether they would contribute or not if there was a fault (my car has only been serviced by VW). I heard at most they would contribute for parts which is peanuts compared to what their labour charges are.

I got several quotes, one from Brunswick Garage in Arnos Grove at around 300 and one from total vag in Leighton buzzard for around 250. The ones in Nw London were around 400. Finally went with Brunswick garage due to convenience (it was going to cost me 40 ish to and from Leighton buzzard) and pleased with the service.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Dubbit on 01 April 2015, 17:16
.

I got several quotes, one from Brunswick Garage in Arnos Grove at around 300 and one from total vag in Leighton buzzard for around 250. The ones in Nw London were around 400. Finally went with Brunswick garage due to convenience (it was going to cost me 40 ish to and from Leighton buzzard) and pleased with the service.

Hi Gaurav,

I phoned them (Brunswick) & they quoted me near 500 + 100 for the chain to be replaced which he recommended.
I told them you paid just over 300 for the tensioner but didnt have your details to check..
Wondered if you could pm me about this, maybe I can get them to come down a bit in price.

Cheers,

C.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: gaurav_aidasani on 07 April 2015, 23:13
Tried to PM you but I think you don't have enough posts to be PMed.

So looking back at the invoice they charged me 370 (that includes 40 for oil change). You could combine it with a service if you aren't bothered about it being a non VW garage. The invoice number is 1022085 if that helps?

600 sounds way off and it seems they're capitalising on it!
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: RocketRossUK on 08 April 2015, 09:21
I know its still early to tell, but I wonder after all the revised parts (tensioner, magnet, housing etc) how confident they are that the latest revisions will stop the timing chain slipping / rattles on start up.

I think I have every possible part changed under warranty, but im still in tough place, keep or sell !!!

Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: JIMMYBRODIE on 11 April 2015, 10:59
Has anyone got any experince of these? Could be a potential problem solver!

http://www.hstuning.com/product_info.php?products_id=3619

Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: andygo on 11 April 2015, 17:56
Its a lot more expensive than buying the same parts from TPS, who seem to sell genuine VW parts at a real good price. Google 'em.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: JIMMYBRODIE on 12 April 2015, 08:08
Is the TPS product an uprated unit?

My thoughts really are that if there is an aftermarket unti that is stronger I would install it. Rather than just installing a standard one leaving potentially the same problem.

Thanks
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: RocketRossUK on 12 April 2015, 12:04
the TPS will be the latest upgraded version. VW have done 3 or 4 revisions to the tensioner and 2-3 revisions to the housing and magnet part.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: JIMMYBRODIE on 14 April 2015, 07:37
Thanks Rocket.

Does anyone have a list of these part numbers and experience of the longevity? Thanks
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: mikegti77 on 14 April 2015, 08:25
Thanks Rocket.

Does anyone have a list of these part numbers and experience of the longevity? Thanks

Page 14.... all the info is in the thread.

I had mine changed 15 months / 15K miles ago, touch wood the engine is still in one piece! (now 67K miles)
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: JIMMYBRODIE on 14 April 2015, 17:39
Magis thanks
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Dubbit on 14 April 2015, 18:23
Tried to PM you but I think you don't have enough posts to be PMed.

So looking back at the invoice they charged me 370 (that includes 40 for oil change). You could combine it with a service if you aren't bothered about it being a non VW garage. The invoice number is 1022085 if that helps?

600 sounds way off and it seems they're capitalising on it!

I ended up going to a local place "Laszlo" VW specialists in South Harrow. They charged me 220+vat & I supplied the replacement tensioner.

Dont think anyone can beat that in the London area.  :cool:
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: andygo on 14 April 2015, 21:21
Good deal, well done.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: SunnyGTI on 25 April 2015, 18:20
surely purchasing vw's approved used warranty will cover this sort of thing? I'm struggling to understand why with the knowledge of this issue, people don't purchase it, in light of the potential bill its peanuts. I was quoted £370 for the year (fully comp).

Can't do online quotes but worth calling up 0845 641 9767

 i have just purcahsed vd approved warrenty the highest type for around £360 with road side assistance. hopefully will cover when mine goes bang! :shocked:

£360 for the VW extended warranty is not expensive at all then.....given that VW's are not as reliable as we think I think £360 a year is money well spent. I am definitely going to look into it now...
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: kinesin on 29 April 2015, 07:18
First Post - same sorry story

59 Plate GTI 47,000 FVWSH No Mods

Engine died at Easter - recovered to VW in Cambridge - Timing chain tensioner had failed. Initially told £6500 to replace the engine. I haggled to £3500 then finally was offered £1500.

The breakdown between parts and labour was a bit of a three card trick but basically I was told VW would pay 100% parts and I was paying for labour. I showed them the TSB and the list of problems others on this site had reported, but could not get them to budge. They claimed to have never heard of the problem before  :huh:...

Pretty ticked off with VW in general after this - it's obviously a common failure and VW are trying to minimise their cost by haggling each case individually rather than any consistent response.

I've written to VW Customer services but having paid them now I'll not be holding my breath.

Thank you to everyone on this site - I'd have been much less prepared without all this info.

Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: AndrewDunn on 29 April 2015, 16:56
So I have been offered the replacement engine fitted for £3100... Not sure how to proceed from here. I asked for the address of VW's UK based legal team so I could get my solicitor involved which I was given along with the response.. "You will not receive a further offer" I also asked for a quote to be sent to me after they gave me the offer. My thinking being if I go legal at least I would still have that offer in writing. However when I received it there was no sign of the "Goodwill"
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: gaurav_aidasani on 29 April 2015, 18:25
That is very poor customer service by VW
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: lxm on 30 April 2015, 20:49
Another one bites the dust! (this time a Polo 6R)

2010 Polo 6R 1.2 (70ps) with 63k on the clock.

Full service history, oil change every 10k or less.

Quoted £800-£1000 initial labour alone at dealers to open the engine up and assess the damage before VW UK could give word on any 'good will'. We agreed to this and luckily the engine wasn't a write off. Engine top half could be rebuilt at a cost of £1900. VW UK would not give any goodwill. Our dealer gave 20% off parts due to 15 years of loyal custom but still not happy with a bill of £1600! We duly paid in full.......

Its a NON SERVICEABLE LIFETIME PART. What really annoys me is that if the car had a belt fitted, it would have been changed as per its service schedule at a fraction of the cost of the possibility of an engine going 'BOOM'

We wrote to VW UK Customer service and delt with a 'manager' - We were offered a free service for our inconvenience. We are professionals, but told them to stuff it.

She told us that 'parts on cars go' and thats the reason for the 3 year warranty.

She reminded us that our £1900 repair bill was covered by a 2 year warranty to put our minds at ease............ :evil: :shocked: :grin:

Never buying a Volkswagen again! We have bee very loyal, it is their loss, over a 15 year period....

Used Bora TDI
New Bora V6 4 Motion
New Passat Sport
6 month Ex-DemoPassat CC GT
New facelift Passat CC GT (current)
Used Polo 6R (current)
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: SunnyGTI on 30 April 2015, 21:41
Woah that's bad :/

You had to pay but had a warranty? Or you had a warranty repair earlier for something else?

I spoke to VW customer care today and asked if they are aware of this issue re cam belt tensioner. They said no, nothing on system and they had never heard of it. Hmmmm...
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: andygo on 01 May 2015, 22:20
Lying gits at VW, just google cam tensioner and look at results.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: lxm on 02 May 2015, 20:08
Sorry maybe I didnt put it right, the £1900 repair to sort the wrecked engine is covered under a 2 year warranty... if the same thing were to happen again, I think she was rubbing our noses in it.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: h10_vwg on 05 May 2015, 15:06
My timing chain slipped about two weeks ago :(

Iv got my engine refurbished and it is now running fine.

If this does happen, you got to be extremely unlucky!

Just make sure you get your car services between 6k-8k on time!!
I didn't get it serviced on time and now it cost me £1500 to get it fixed :( there goes my front light and lowering mods money :(
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: reprobate on 16 May 2015, 18:19
I've decided to get the preventative job done, local specialist is charging me £800 to replace all the chains and guides, do my major service and MOT, does this seem reasonable?

My GTI is an 09 and has done 44k miles

Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: andygo on 16 May 2015, 21:35
You maybe need to get the tensioner part priced on its own to make sure you are not being ripped.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: markr on 17 May 2015, 11:49
Thank you guys for this thread, I am new here. Mine failed last week, it is with VW main dealer at the moment, I am working with the Dealer and VW customer services, but so far factory goodwill has been rejected.

They have quoted £6.5K for new engine  :sad:

Mine is MK6  DSG GTI 59 plate with 93K miles
Bought new and with full service history from same dealer (Ridgeway VW in Reading)
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: reprobate on 20 May 2015, 19:33
he quoted £600 to do the tensioner, major service and MOT. He also had 2 cars in the garage that had the exact failure in this thread so I am probably going to get the whole lot done for piece of mind
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: RocketRossUK on 20 May 2015, 21:38
sounds a good price mate
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: markr on 24 May 2015, 07:34
An update on mine, after going back and forth between Dealer and VW customer services they agreed to support the costs. Initially the quote was for £6525 to replace and fit a new engine.

In the end this has cost me £2k fully fitted at main dealer, now have a brand new engine and 2 years warranty

Problem was confirmed as chain tensioner failure, so I have ensured they have also replaced with the latest version.

I picked the car up yesterday and all is good  :smiley: I must say the dealer has done a very good job, and their service has always been very good since I bought it , they are Ridgeway VW in Reading.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Poached on 24 May 2015, 13:06
The dealerships have ripped every single person off here who has had this problem, no one should have paid a penny for fitting.

VW did there bit in replacing the engine though.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: markr on 25 May 2015, 12:31
Here is a list of the parts from VW that were used for the replacement of my engine, if any one is interested.

1x W06L 103 085 B -Seal
1x W06K 109 158 AD - Chain
1x W06K 109 467 K - Tensioner
1x W06J 100 038 JX - Base Engine
1x W1k0 253 115 AB - Gasket

A number of bolts, washers, seal rings and screws
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: davidthegolfer on 07 June 2015, 14:54
My 2010 59 plate 28,000 mile Mk VI GTi "skipped" one tooth (I later discovered) September 2014 and lost 80% of power. I called my VW garage and they asked me to drive in carefully as there was no engine warning light.
They diagnosed tensioner failure. I found this thread on the forum and quoted them chapter and verse. I said that VW should have carried out a recall.
They did a stripped down engine check and rebuild and fitted the new/modified tensioner parts. I saw a copy of the invoice for £1,716.00. I explained that I didn't expect to pay for the repairs/upgrade and the entire invoice was credited and recharged to VW I believe.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: davidthegolfer on 07 June 2015, 15:18
I would like to take this opportunity to thank everyone who contributed to this list of experiences. Collectively you saved me a lot of money and heartache. It just shows the value of specialist forums. Thank you. I will be making a contribution to the fund.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: gaurav_aidasani on 07 June 2015, 21:33
Which dealer was it mate? I think you're very lucky to have a garage that is supporting their customers!
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: davidthegolfer on 07 June 2015, 22:50
Lightcliffe Volkswagen Warrington
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Ross515 on 10 June 2015, 21:59
.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Olifran on 11 June 2015, 12:53
No it shouldn't. The tensioner and chain are not servicable items. How can they argue that you not having an oil change etc has caused it to go pop. My opinion anyway.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Poached on 14 June 2015, 10:41
'Lack of servicing' is an easy get out for the dealership though...

Ross515 - You'll have to verify the history with the relevant dealerships from the stamps in the service book if you don't have copies of the original invoices. Obviously, don't mention the chain at this stage.

If the car service reminder has been set as you say, then I think you could try benefit of doubt with the relevant dealer for a delayed service if it turns out to be the case.

Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Tobe123 on 17 June 2015, 14:55
Mainly found this forum due to searching for this problem I developed with my car.

I bought a MK6 GTI from Alan Day VW 4 weeks ago, it had 34k on the clock.. Exactly 28 days after I went to leave work & the car wouldn't turn over, after VW coming out to recover the car and it being transported back to the original garage I bought it from it was found to have no compression after timing chain failure.

The garage have covered the total cost of an engine replacement total £5508 couldn't fault them at all apart from giving me an UP as a replacement to my GTI.

Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Poached on 19 June 2015, 09:00
Mainly found this forum due to searching for this problem I developed with my car.

I bought a MK6 GTI from Alan Day VW 4 weeks ago, it had 34k on the clock.. Exactly 28 days after I went to leave work & the car wouldn't turn over, after VW coming out to recover the car and it being transported back to the original garage I bought it from it was found to have no compression after timing chain failure.

The garage have covered the total cost of an engine replacement total £5508 couldn't fault them at all apart from giving me an UP as a replacement to my GTI.

1 year warranty,VW pays for the lot.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: CaptainCaveman on 07 July 2015, 08:23
A bit late but my timing chain went on Christmas eve of all times! Drove car to the shops in the morning everything fine, then later in the afternoon went to get some cash out ready for night out and the car just would not start.

Took it to my local independent and after taking a look inside said that the tensioner had failed and that it would need replacing along with a new chain as mine was pretty knackered. After reading through posts on here about engine rebuilds and such was dreading it.

They explained to me that they would order in the chain and tensioner and try and turn the engine over before stripping the engine down to see if any of the pistons had gone.

Luckily it turned over nicely! After a week and a bit in the shop it was all sorted and ready to be picked up  :smiley:

Full cost for parts and labour came to £720 which I thought was a bargain after seeing some of the costs other people have been given!

I count myself lucky that it went whilst parked up on my driveway and not while I was out or even worse driving!

Car as follows.

MK6 GTI
2009
72000 (roughly at time of incident )
Manual
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: na_s on 13 July 2015, 14:41
had this changed this month under warranty (57k miles) new chain & tensioner. (09 DSG)

still don't understand why people don't save themselves a lot of hassle and money whilst knowing this issue exists.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Gaz-M on 20 July 2015, 14:26
Great, ive had TFSIs in the past and didnt like the idea of my Mk6 GTi ive just bought having a chain. Now i come across this and im properly unhappy! How many manufacturers struggle with chain tensioners!!!

Why on earth change it from a reliable, easy to change belt!!!

So, i have a 10 plate 31k miles, FVWSH Golf GTi. Is there a VW recall or something that will pay for this to be changed before it fails and costs them more in the long term?
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: RocketRossUK on 20 July 2015, 17:41
No recall mate. Get it changed at an indie for £300-£400, best idea....dont put it off!!!
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: RevDode on 27 July 2015, 13:28
Should have joined this forum ages ago! 09 gti, 51k, DSG, full service history. Cam error showed up on 11 July as we were in Wales going on holiday. No prior warnings. Got carried to my local VW dealer who has had it since. Diagnosed cam adjustor failure, resulting in damage to timing chain, tensioner, cam shaft, cylinder head etc.. They want £4600 to put my car into the condition it should be in normally and have offered 'goodwill' of 14% (=10% VW + 4% garage). Any advice? I'm shocked by VW's attitude on this.

Update 29/07/15: I refused Customer Care's offer, pointing out that my mk5 GTI had succumbed to an engine fire at 48k, and their brand is at an abysmal low with me. After reconsidering they came back offering 50%. Suppose I should be grateful....
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: RocketRossUK on 27 July 2015, 13:42
They seem to have stopped contributing as much now mate as they are aware there will be loads more to come.

The best advise i can give you for the future is to google known problems with the certain car you are going to buy, this issue would have popped straight up and you would have saved a few grand.

Hindsight eh?  :undecided: :undecided:
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Ozzie826 on 28 July 2015, 00:06
Right after reading peoples comments i take it i should get the car checked before anything happens to the chain ? Ive just bought the car its done 49k miles 09 plate. Whats the solution before i get the problem on the car ? I dont want to end up going to the garage and them making more money of me then they should.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Mr_Orange on 28 July 2015, 07:22
Does this only effect golfs, or is it an issue on other vw group vehicles? Would an 09ish 2.0 tsi Tiguan or Passat have the same hardware and potential issues? Particular engine codes to look out for?
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: RocketRossUK on 28 July 2015, 08:49
Right after reading peoples comments i take it i should get the car checked before anything happens to the chain ? Ive just bought the car its done 49k miles 09 plate. Whats the solution before i get the problem on the car ? I dont want to end up going to the garage and them making more money of me then they should.

Yes you should get it in asap and get on the required parts changed. An indie garage charge about £300-£500, but its defo worth it and the peace of mind is such a relief.

There is post in this thread with all part number needed.



Does this only effect golfs, or is it an issue on other vw group vehicles? Would an 09ish 2.0 tsi Tiguan or Passat have the same hardware and potential issues? Particular engine codes to look out for?

Yes it effects loads of 2.0 TSI engines from 09-10. I would get it checked out if i were in your position and google to see if its a problem on your model.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: josh ack on 28 July 2015, 21:12
Hi, took my car to Lookers VW I'm Middlesbrough as the chain is rattling on start up. they looked at the car and and have diagnosed it as the chain tensioner, but rang me as the man who does the warranty reports doesn't think I have a claim so I'd have to pay unless it actually fails on me, is this right as obviously id rather it be fixed under warranty than it break on me when I'm not expecting. I have 10 months das welt warranty. Thanks
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: RocketRossUK on 28 July 2015, 22:09
I was under warranty, I got the service tech to push it through as a failed tensioner even though it had not failed fully.

If its failing to do its job correctly they can push it through.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Gaz-M on 26 August 2015, 13:50
Ive now changed mine to the updated version as a precaution.

Parts needed are tensioner, metal timing cover and oil/ filter ideally.

No more worries when starting the car!
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: RocketRossUK on 26 August 2015, 15:15
Ive now changed mine to the updated version as a precaution.

Parts needed are tensioner, metal timing cover and oil/ filter ideally.

No more worries when starting the car!


You might also want to keep an eye on the below part, as this happened to me 9 months after having the tensioner changed.
________________________________________________________________________

NEW UPDATE - 03/02/2015

So it turns out the Gauze on the bearing housing had cracked and come off, luckily is hadn't gone far, it got stuck at the end of the tunnel so was easy to pick out. Martin the head tech at VW Crosshills explained that yet again it is another bad design by VW and there has been two revisions to the bearing housing since 2009.

This is the damage, you can see that 90% of the gauze had gone. :angry: :angry:

(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k489/rocketrossuk/49b2d77d900b230b074eac87a2e81153_zpsfxcjdwyy.png)


So they replace the bearing bush housing and the magnet (said they have to buy as a set). they were both fitted the next day and all seemed well, no rattle on start up and engine sounded fine. I got about 7 miles down the road and engine management light came on. So I scanned it when I got home and it threw this error code:

1 Fault Found:
000017 - Bank 1: Camshaft A (Intake): Retard Setpoint not Reached (Over-Advanced)
               P0011 - 000 -  -  - MIL ON


Googled it and it came back with a few causes, mainly timing issue. Spoke to Ben at VW and he said bring it back and we will have a look again.

The head tech spend two days looking into and couldn't find an issue with the timing or anything else in the engine. To cut this story short he finally got to the bottom of it. It was caused by the below part not opening and shutting properly, the part is called Central Valve (for the cam) Part number: 06H 109 257 C. After replacing that the car has been starting and running sweet. So great job by the guys at VW Crosshills again. Cant thank them enough.

I just wanted to post this if anyone else who has had the timing chain done and then the noise comes back 6+ months later.

It will either be the Cam Shaft Magnet Assembly or this little valve thing:

(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k489/rocketrossuk/IMG_2007_zpspihxn6t9.jpg)
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Gaz-M on 26 August 2015, 16:41
Ive seen this pop up lately, so id rather fix it too. Mine is a mid 2010 car so may be the better design.

So where is this located, what part numbers are needed etc?

Revised parts available?

Is it a big job?
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: RocketRossUK on 27 August 2015, 00:01
these are the parts i had installed / changed last time under warranty:

(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k489/rocketrossuk/IMG_3085_zpswvir0hac.jpg)
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Gaz-M on 27 August 2015, 10:27
Nice one, is that 3 hours labour theyve charged? Is this thing under the cam cover for access?

Any idea what the 5 parts listed actually are, especially the more expensive parts?
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Scottw on 13 September 2015, 20:50
Thinking of buying a gti....
Is there a list of part numbers I can use to see if it's got the latest tensioner fitted,believe there has been 4 different ones ?
Can this be checked while engine is in car ?

Has anyone had the new design fail or is it sorted now,

Is it easy to check the camshaft problem ?-any revisions on this part ?
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Bobbydazzlerr on 14 September 2015, 21:09
Could anyone tell me where i can buy the latest chain tensioner? And how much are they? Dont vw do a recall on them?
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: 210GTi on 15 September 2015, 14:50
Hi, Got mine from VW dealer - part no is 06K 109 467K , cost £36.90 + vat but u also need new timing casing, sealant and bolts etc - well worth it for peace of mind when u read some of the horror stories 😁No VW recall as far as I know as they are in denial !! Cheers .
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Bobbydazzlerr on 15 September 2015, 22:51
How much did it cost you for all the parts and labour? Cheers
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: mikegti77 on 16 September 2015, 19:07
As this thread is now 48 pages long, and people are not understandably reading through the whole thread....

To save someone else asking what the parts numbers are / cost, page 14 contains it all

Cheers

Mike
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: na_s on 06 October 2015, 15:38
As this thread is now 48 pages long, and people are not understandably reading through the whole thread....

To save someone else asking what the parts numbers are / cost, page 14 contains it all

Cheers

Mike

...or pay less than £400 for a years fully comprehensive dealership warranty and not worry about anything.  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: mikegti77 on 06 October 2015, 16:36
As this thread is now 48 pages long, and people are not understandably reading through the whole thread....

To save someone else asking what the parts numbers are / cost, page 14 contains it all

Cheers

Mike

...or pay less than £400 for a years fully comprehensive dealership warranty and not worry about anything.  :rolleyes:

...you could, but buying a warranty does not fix the tensioner fault, so in another 12 months you are faced with the same decision; spend another £400 on a years warranty, or use the money to resolve the problem by fitting the updated tensioner.

Both ways work, no right or wrong, it's which ever your happy with, advantages with both...  :rolleyes:

I too was quote around the £400 to extend the vw warranty cover last year, decide against it, nearly 20K miles later nothing has gone wrong in that time (touch wood), so an £400 extra in my back pocket, but I did spend the money getting the tensioner fitted instead for piece of mind. As I say it's what ever works for you.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: na_s on 06 October 2015, 20:49
As this thread is now 48 pages long, and people are not understandably reading through the whole thread....

To save someone else asking what the parts numbers are / cost, page 14 contains it all

Cheers

Mike

...or pay less than £400 for a years fully comprehensive dealership warranty and not worry about anything.  :rolleyes:

...you could, but buying a warranty does not fix the tensioner fault, so in another 12 months you are faced with the same decision; spend another £400 on a years warranty, or use the money to resolve the problem by fitting the updated tensioner.

Both ways work, no right or wrong, it's which ever your happy with, advantages with both...  :rolleyes:

I too was quote around the £400 to extend the vw warranty cover last year, decide against it, nearly 20K miles later nothing has gone wrong in that time (touch wood), so an £400 extra in my back pocket, but I did spend the money getting the tensioner fitted instead for piece of mind. As I say it's what ever works for you.

each to their own, but making the ~£380 purchase, helped me dodge an £800+ bill (VW replaced the lot for me). My warranty is fully comp, so I'm looking at the bigger picture as the amount of things which can go wrong isnt limited to the timing chain alone. I also doubt £400 would fully absorb a turbo or dsg failure.

as you say though, whatever works for you.

Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Fossie100 on 21 October 2015, 14:37
Hi All,

First, thank you for putting all this information together. Apologies if my questions have already been covered by this thread. I have read many of the pages, but there is quite a lot to read! A quick summary of my situation:

- 2009 (59) Golf GTi purchased November 2013 from Citygate High Wycombe. Mileage - 56K
- Bought with 1 year's extended warranty (no notification or renewal offered on expiry Nov 2014).
- Yellow EML warning light occurred when 15 miles from home. Engine running rough / lack of power.
- Next day engine wouldn't start to drive to dealership from home (turns over).
- RAC confirmed no compression and fault codes indicate timing chain has slipped. Camshaft turns.

Car is being recovered to Citygate High Wycombe as I write.  :sad:

Given that:
- The car has only been serviced by VW franchised dealers.
- Car is now 6 years old with mileage around 76k.
- I have no warranty

What do you think my chances are of getting (some of) this paid for by VW?
What is the best approach to getting work done discounted/free?

Thanks.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Jimmgc51 on 22 October 2015, 17:24
Sorry to say pal but with all the recent news of VW - unlikely

There cutting costs everywhere, still though if it was me I wouldn't accept no for an answer.

Good luck...
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: joe6 on 24 October 2015, 12:27
If you do not get any joy it might be worth talking to trading standards to get their opinion with the evidence from this thread and the USA. A car should not develop a major fault like this after 6 years particularly as it is one of two regularly occurring well known issues (the other being intake manifold) and the part has been redesigned at least twice so VW have acknowledged the problem by default.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Fossie100 on 26 October 2015, 09:29
If you do not get any joy it might be worth talking to trading standards to get their opinion with the evidence from this thread and the USA. A car should not develop a major fault like this after 6 years particularly as it is one of two regularly occurring well known issues (the other being intake manifold) and the part has been redesigned at least twice so VW have acknowledged the problem by default.

Thanks Joe6,

Update:
1. Garage confirm piston / valve contact
2. New engine required - approx. £7.5k
3. No goodwill from VW

I have also had the intake manifold replaced in the last 3 months (paid £650) - some goodwill £100.

Next stop - Trading Standards

Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Bobbydazzlerr on 26 October 2015, 19:27
Be cheaper to rebuild than a new engine i would have fort good luck with trading standerds pal
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: chudge on 29 October 2015, 19:42
Hi Fossie100,

Exact same problem for myself and also dealing with Citygate VW right now.

How are you processing with this?

Thanks
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: daveedub on 12 November 2015, 21:50
sad to report that my timing chain tensioner has failed at 49k on my 2010 gti with full main dealer history, apparently initial diagnostics couldn't reveal the cause of failure so I had the engine stripped to determine the cause and now awaiting news from the dealer on any good will from VW...fingers crossed
Surprised that if this was a known common fault that it wasn't swapped for the revised version at the main service.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: SunnyGTI on 14 November 2015, 18:42
Saw a golf (TSI not GTI) in at dealers for engine replacement. Wonder if that engine had same tensioner issue...?
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Snoopy on 21 November 2015, 11:16
Similar but different. Loads of ingo why they cause issues on the net. They have a few issues that could cause an engine to need replacment.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: jenkstwingo on 02 December 2015, 17:14
Long story short, 2011 Gti, 115,000 miles, decided to finally stop working yesterday. Recovered to my local VW dealer and had the bad news this afternoon (which i was kind of expecting!!). Timing chain has gone and requires new engine. Was quoted £6,033.19. :shocked: :shocked: :shocked:

Seems a lot more than i have read in previous threads, initially laughed at the guy from the dealers then recovered after falling off my chair! My initial response was the car isn't worth it!!! They are valuing the car for me today and getting back to me.

Anyone got any useful advice?

Most annoying part it i was hoping to change the car in March next year!
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: daveedub on 03 December 2015, 12:53
sad to report that my timing chain tensioner has failed at 49k on my 2010 gti with full main dealer history, apparently initial diagnostics couldn't reveal the cause of failure so I had the engine stripped to determine the cause and now awaiting news from the dealer on any good will from VW...fingers crossed
Surprised that if this was a known common fault that it wasn't swapped for the revised version at the main service.

Got the car back yesterday after handing over £2.5k for a new engine with the dealership paying the other half in goodwill jesture and i had to have the 50k service done at same time to get the goodwill, now i have to sell it to cover the bill, which is a shame as i will have owned it exactly a year tomorrow, and other than this it's been spot on.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Hardwell on 06 December 2015, 11:33
Hello, first post but to be fair, I wouldn't have found this site otherwise... every cloud and all that.

My car is currently sat at Aylesbury VW awaiting repair due to the chain tensioner being on its way out (59 plate; 79K miles). Unfortunately, even though I had warranty on the car, apparently this part wasn't covered (Cowboys @ Warrantywise - the adverts with Quentin Wilson in). 

The car is now at Aylesbury VW who have been absolutely superb throughout, fighting my corner with Warrantywise (whose policies are basically worthless) and even paying for the water pump to be replaced at their own cost!  Fantastic customer service so I'm glad I took the car to them. 

I've been lucky as the only sympton was the EML coming on straight after start up so I called out the AA before I drove it, even though it sounded fine.  Their guy knew straight away what it was when he flushed the code (P0016) and told me to look online as this is a very common fault on the TSI engine.  He also said I'd been extremely lucky as most just go without any warning whatsoever!

Anyway, that's my story!  Will now have a look round on the site :)
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: gaurav_aidasani on 07 December 2015, 09:57
What does the warranty wise policy state? Surely the tv ad is misleading as Quentin says it covers everything!

Did you purchase the warranty with a credit card? You could always go down that route if you did....
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Hardwell on 11 December 2015, 22:30
The policy states cambelt and all internal moving parts of the engine, but Warrantywise are saying the cam chain tensioner isn't one of them!  I argued the toss but it didn't get me anywhere - in the end I cancelled the policy in disgust and was given a £60 consolation payment(!). Looking online, they've done the same to a hell of a lot of other people so I'm surprised they're still in business.  Never again will I deal with them or any garage that uses them. I'll put my foot through the TV next time that Quentin twit turns up advertising them!  I paid myself and picked the car up today... so happy to have it back and now have the peace of mind of a proper two year VW warranty on the work done :D
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Poached on 12 December 2015, 18:17
The policy states cambelt and all internal moving parts of the engine, but Warrantywise are saying the cam chain tensioner isn't one of them!  I argued the toss but it didn't get me anywhere - in the end I cancelled the policy in disgust and was given a £60 consolation payment(!). Looking online, they've done the same to a hell of a lot of other people so I'm surprised they're still in business.  Never again will I deal with them or any garage that uses them. I'll put my foot through the TV next time that Quentin twit turns up advertising them!  I paid myself and picked the car up today... so happy to have it back and now have the peace of mind of a proper two year VW warranty on the work done :D

These car warranties are a virtual scam, carefully worded with caveats all over the place and as the car ages the level of cover becomes pointless with exclusions. At least you know now...

Wonder how much Quentin was paid to front it...
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Hardwell on 13 December 2015, 18:07
The policy states cambelt and all internal moving parts of the engine, but Warrantywise are saying the cam chain tensioner isn't one of them!  I argued the toss but it didn't get me anywhere - in the end I cancelled the policy in disgust and was given a £60 consolation payment(!). Looking online, they've done the same to a hell of a lot of other people so I'm surprised they're still in business.  Never again will I deal with them or any garage that uses them. I'll put my foot through the TV next time that Quentin twit turns up advertising them!  I paid myself and picked the car up today... so happy to have it back and now have the peace of mind of a proper two year VW warranty on the work done :D

These car warranties are a virtual scam, carefully worded with caveats all over the place and as the car ages the level of cover becomes pointless with exclusions. At least you know now...

Wonder how much Quentin was paid to front it...

My understanding is that he has his own money in the business.  As you say, after market warranties are absolutely worthless and I wouldn't be fooled with the sales patter next time. As far as I'm concerned now, the only warranty worth having is the manufacturer's one.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: chris1h on 01 January 2016, 12:49
UPDATE UPDATE

Friends mk6 tensioner went the other week there.

59 plate ,   42k miles , warranty paid everything!  :whistle:
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Hardwell on 01 January 2016, 13:24
Was that through Warrantywise?! Well done to your mate if so as I couldn't get a penny out of them.  I will only touch warranty plans offered by VW from now on.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: chris1h on 01 January 2016, 15:15
Was that through Warrantywise?! Well done to your mate if so as I couldn't get a penny out of them.  I will only touch warranty plans offered by VW from now on.

just read further up there and your problems! sorry to hear that mate! sounds a right pain and something i will be telling other about "warranty wise". Luckily my friends was through VW the warranty not a external company.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Pioneer Performance on 17 January 2016, 14:46
Does this "chain slap" only happen on cold starts ? or if its failing is it every time you start the car ?
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: weejockvw on 17 January 2016, 19:21
Only on cold startup it sounds like a bad tappet rattle for a few seconds
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Pioneer Performance on 17 January 2016, 19:37
Only on cold startup it sounds like a bad tappet rattle for a few seconds

Thanks ! Definitely getting mine replaced for peace of mind !
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Bobbydazzlerr on 18 January 2016, 11:19
Would it make a rattle every morning you start the car if it was on its way out?
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Bobbydazzlerr on 18 January 2016, 16:44
Going to get mine done does anyone no yhe cheapest place to get the bits? Tensioner etc? Also if its a wood rough key?
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Pioneer Performance on 19 January 2016, 15:19
TPS will likely be the cheapest - approximately £40 for the tensioner i think
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Bobbydazzlerr on 20 January 2016, 09:22
Spoke to tps the cover is £77 which i fort was quite expensive does anyone no if i could re use the cover?
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Pioneer Performance on 22 January 2016, 10:18
Just been quoted around £400 in labour only on replacing the cam chain tensioner. 8 hour job apparently.

Can anyone in the North East recommend a specialist Garage ?
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: mikegti77 on 23 January 2016, 08:50
Just been quoted around £400 in labour only on replacing the cam chain tensioner. 8 hour job apparently.

Can anyone in the North East recommend a specialist Garage ?

I used 'VASSTECH' located in Darlington, they charged 4 hours labour for my tensioner, they did mine around two years ago. Read page 14 and 16 of this thread for parts and cost break down at the time.

Hope this helps.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: trackep on 23 January 2016, 16:37
Is this a case of not what if but when a tensioner will fail? Thinking of buying a 10plate with 39k on tomorrow and starting to think mayb i shouldn't. If i get the tensioner replaced will that be the end of it and i won't have to worry?
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Bobbydazzlerr on 24 January 2016, 18:03
Replaced tensioner today and come up with fault code cam shaft sensor could the vvti timing be out? Car struggle to start when starts runs fine just under power at bottom end off the revs any help be great?
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Bobbydazzlerr on 08 February 2016, 21:54
Update it was my chain that was stretched i would highly recomend if you are replacing the tensioner to replace the chain aswell
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: ScreenMachine on 14 February 2016, 10:53
Just in the process of buying a MK6 GTI from a main dealer and have already agreed to the sale before I came across this. It will come with 2-years VW approved warranty.

Obviously this thread worries me a little, since this car is a big investment for me. I've not read every single page, but enough to understand the main issues, I hope!

The car I'm buying is registered late 2010, so I'm hoping it has at least the 1st revision tensioner fitted. That said, I'll be looking to replace it pretty quickly for peace of mind (and because me and the girlfriend will be going on holiday on the continent in May, which is 2500-mile round trip and I don't want the chance of a major failure during that.

Can I just ask whether it's always enough to replace the tensioner? When I asked my mate who's also my usual mechanic, he queried whether people usually change the belt and guides too, as they would be his instinct. Would there be any indication of when to do the whole job - do you ever get wear on the chain or stretching? I get very much mates rates on labour and also have a friendly VW parts guy (I've bought so much VW/Audi parts from him over the years I get a discount).

[edit: is it worth doing the mesh strainer and magnetic plug I noticed on one of the thread pages? Anything else I've missed which might be worth doing 'while you're in there'?

Do you think I should just get the whole job done and then not worry?
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Hardwell on 14 February 2016, 12:18
In all honesty, if I'd have known then what I know now, I probably wouldn't have bought the car in the first place; however if you do get it, I would definitely be getting at least the tensioner changed and the cam chain inspected at the same time.  I was lucky as the chain had only slipped enough to bring the EM light on and make the car difficult to start - fortunately no terminal damage was done.  Even so, it was still a £1400 repair bill that the warranty wouldn't cover so triple check that yours will if you don't get the work done upfront. 
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: ScreenMachine on 14 February 2016, 17:44
I'm already committed to the sale and finance, so a bit late not to buy, that said I'll email and ask them explicitly about the warranty position should this fail.

Just read through the procedure and surprised at the amount of special tools needed, etc. Not sure my mechanic will have all those.

Can anyone recommend a known specialist indie garage worth their salt for this job in the South? Wondering if it might be easier in this case to take it to somewhere which has the tools and is used to the job.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: barrym381 on 14 February 2016, 20:56
I'm already committed to the sale and finance, so a bit late not to buy, that said I'll email and ask them explicitly about the warranty position should this fail.

Just read through the procedure and surprised at the amount of special tools needed, etc. Not sure my mechanic will have all those.

Can anyone recommend a known specialist indie garage worth their salt for this job in the South? Wondering if it might be easier in this case to take it to somewhere which has the tools and is used to the job.
why not bring it to the attention of the salesman or saleswomen that sold you the car that you are worried about this issue see if they will get it done before you take delivery even show them this thread as proof as some dealers are hopeless  :smiley:
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: ScreenMachine on 14 February 2016, 21:20
Good idea, just drafted an email asking them about it so we'll see what they say.

I'll hold sending them a link to this thread in reserve for if they try to claim it's not an issue. I have a feeling they'll only do it prophylactically if I simply pay for the job, so we'll have to see what a main dealer wants to charge... :wink:
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: SunnyGTI on 14 February 2016, 22:33
When I read the details of the VW approved used warranty it did say something about cam chain etc being covered by warranty.

As long as your have the VW warranty you should be ok.

I'm not sure if having the tensioner replaced yourself would impact warranty :/
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: ScreenMachine on 14 February 2016, 22:36
Good point. I assume if it's done by a dealer or one of the independents who say it won't affect warranty it'd be OK?

I always thought if you used genuine parts and a qualified workshop who follow VW's procedures it was OK, but that may be wrong?
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Thatsnotme on 15 February 2016, 09:54
Good point. I assume if it's done by a dealer or one of the independents who say it won't affect warranty it'd be OK?

I always thought if you used genuine parts and a qualified workshop who follow VW's procedures it was OK, but that may be wrong?

When I was buying my GTD last year I managed to get VW Walkingshaw to replace the tensioner and water pump for no additional cost within the terms of the sale. I know you mentioned that you have agreed to purchasing the vehicle, but have you made any payment? If you haven't placed a deposit I would definitely advise you to try and agree on some terms so that they replace the tensioner and water pump (after reading some posts you'll know it makes sense to do both at the same time), even if its at an additional cost its worthwhile as they're a main dealer.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: ScreenMachine on 15 February 2016, 10:00
Worth an ask. Doubt they'll chuck those in for free as it's probably over £1K and I already knocked them down on price, but if it's not extortionate I might as well have the dealer do it. At the very least then if anything did go wrong the onus would be on VW to make it right.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Hardwell on 15 February 2016, 19:00
I'm sure there will be a cooling off period on the finance, so if you're within that still I'd threaten to pull out if they don't at least change the tensioner FOC.  They all claim that they've never heard of this issue, but there's 52 pages here saying otherwise.  I also tried a few VW indies but came unstuck on the timing tool(?) every time.  In all fairness though, I'm glad a VW dealer did it as I now have two years' warranty on the repair and I will have moved it on by time that runs out.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: ScreenMachine on 15 February 2016, 19:17
TBH, after a conversation I had with an indie specialist today I'm thinking of pulling out if it's possible and won't affect my credit rating.

Basically, if what he said is true, changing to the later tensioner and chains won't necessarily cure the issue as they're not sure it's the tensioner, but chain stretch.

I asked him if he though changing to the revised chains would cure and he still wasn't optimistic and said that only the later engine revision around 2012 was the certain thing.

Not sure if this is true, or just speculation, but he said there were theories about what causes it, one being load on the chains with people parking cars facing uphill with handbrakes on but the car in gear.

From a lifetime of being round cars it sounded a little far fetched to me, but the more I get into this I feel I might be better off pulling out if I can and just finding a different vehicle.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Gtiless on 15 February 2016, 22:13
TBH, after a conversation I had with an indie specialist today I'm thinking of pulling out if it's possible and won't affect my credit rating.

Basically, if what he said is true, changing to the later tensioner and chains won't necessarily cure the issue as they're not sure it's the tensioner, but chain stretch.

I asked him if he though changing to the revised chains would cure and he still wasn't optimistic and said that only the later engine revision around 2012 was the certain thing.

Not sure if this is true, or just speculation, but he said there were theories about what causes it, one being load on the chains with people parking cars facing uphill with handbrakes on but the car in gear.

From a lifetime of being round cars it sounded a little far fetched to me, but the more I get into this I feel I might be better off pulling out if I can and just finding a different vehicle.

An independent I spoke to about possibly doing my tensioner and chain,(he didnt want to do it either) mentioned to me about the parking on hills in a gear that would try to turn the engine backwards with the weight of the car,he explained it as the backward movement of the engine de-tensioned the chain leading to the well documented engine failure.

Im no expert but it sounds feasible to me? This,(the tensioner issue) is the main reason why I have regretfully decided to trade my Mk6 in for a Mk7.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: gaurav_aidasani on 15 February 2016, 22:15
I think you should be alright with a Das Welt approved used car with 24 month warranty. From what I have read it should cover you in case of a failure. (unlike some other members who have 3rd party warranties and haven't been covered). Also, it only really affected 09/10 cars with later ones having an updated tensioner. As mentioned by other users, try to get it fixed if you can or at least try to get in writing from the dealership that if it goes, it will be covered under warranty.

These parts cost approximately £400 to change at an indy, I had mine updated as a precaution a couple of years ago (59 plate). The chain hadn't stretched but for extra precaution they changed the chain, tensioner and cover plate. Been fine since. I just treated it as a cambelt upgrade.

Don't let some of the horror stories put you off, these cars are very very good all rounders. I've been very pleased with mine, it's been faultless touchwood (apart from tensioner!).

Other option would be to search for a 2011/12 car if your budget permits?

 
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: ScreenMachine on 15 February 2016, 22:26
Thanks guys.

Yeah having come home and thought about it, I came to the same conclusion - just treat it like changing a timing belt/tensioner.

Hm, I sort of get what he was saying regarding the parking on a hill theory. But it would only be if you had an automatic and didn't use the actual parking break, or if you had a manual, and held it on the engine *before* applying the handbrake, wouldn't it?

The way I always park on a hill is apply the handbrake first, then put the car in gear after. That way the weight of the vehicle is held on the handbrake with the engine only acting as a brake should the handbrake fail for some reason.

Wouldn't the torque forces while driving be far, far greater than the static weight of the car, though, or have I completely misunderstood the theory of what is being claimed?

I hear what you're saying re finding a younger vehicle, but it's far cheaper to do the chain/tensioner job as a 2012 vehicle was about £4K more when I looked recently.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Rgdogg on 15 February 2016, 22:45
I got mine done under warranty, had no issue at all, but I think it's down to the dealer.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: ScreenMachine on 15 February 2016, 22:49
These parts cost approximately £400 to change at an indy, I had mine updated as a precaution a couple of years ago (59 plate). The chain hadn't stretched but for extra precaution they changed the chain, tensioner and cover plate. Been fine since. I just treated it as a cambelt upgrade.

Could I ask which indie you used? Were you pleased with their work?
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Gtiless on 15 February 2016, 22:56
Thanks guys.

Yeah having come home and thought about it, I came to the same conclusion - just treat it like changing a timing belt/tensioner.

Hm, I sort of get what he was saying regarding the parking on a hill theory. But it would only be if you had an automatic and didn't use the actual parking break, or if you had a manual, and held it on the engine *before* applying the handbrake, wouldn't it?

The way I always park on a hill is apply the handbrake first, then put the car in gear after. That way the weight of the vehicle is held on the handbrake with the engine only acting as a brake should the handbrake fail for some reason.

Wouldn't the torque forces while driving be far, far greater than the static weight of the car, though, or have I completely misunderstood the theory of what is being claimed?


I think how it was explained to me, it is if the car moves on the hill and when the engine is off the gradient tries to turn the engine backwards. So parking facing downhill in 1st gear =parking facing uphill in reverse to avoid the possibility of this? 
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: gaurav_aidasani on 16 February 2016, 10:56
Brunswick garage in North London
I think it was around £350 when I did it but have heard another member asked for a quote recently and they found out it was lucrative so tried to charge him higher !

If you read through the threads you should be able to find a few recommendations
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: ScreenMachine on 16 February 2016, 21:05
Thanks, I'll have a look through, they are a little out of my neck of the woods, although ultimately I'd go to the place which has the best reputation and equipment to do it properly.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: BlinGTIes on 18 February 2016, 19:11
Hi fellow GTI'ers,

I've been skimming through the thread - which is very long and informative.  I've got a 61 plate GTI with 61k on the clock and full VW service history.  Bought it 6 weeks ago without knowing about the tensioner issues. Then started going paranoid to the point I was afraid to drive the thing!

Reading through the thread it looks like a lot of the issues affected 2009 and 2010 cars most. Just wondering if later reg cars are at just as much risk?

Thanks
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: ScreenMachine on 18 February 2016, 20:33
I'm not an expert being relatively new to this myself, but my understanding is that the chain tensioner was revised at the factory from mid-2010, so mid-2011 should have a first generation revision.

My further understanding though, is that there was a later revision of the tensioner dated sometime in 2012. Presumably there was a reason for the later part revision, so personally I wouldn't assume I was safe unless I had the last revision fitted.

That said, it's probably better than the original, I don't recall reading about as many later models after the 09/10 plates which had this problem.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Gtiless on 18 February 2016, 22:14
Unfortunately, I have traded my Mk6 for a Mk7 yesterday,as I used to cringe every time I started it up,I feel a bit mixed about it really because I really liked my 6 and wanted to keep it for another year or so but I just couldn't live with the risk.
 
Good luck all the Mk6'ers and all the best.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: ScreenMachine on 18 February 2016, 22:20
Nice. Enjoy the MK7.

Still in two minds about whether to try and pull out from the sale, or whether to just do the updated tensioner job and try not to worry.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: BlinGTIes on 18 February 2016, 23:32
I bought mine from VW so comes with 12 months warranty so at least that gives me some peace of mind.

It's difficult, I'm sure there's lots of cars out there with no issues at all. But it's scary coz when it does go it'll be very costly. Could live with the risk if it was a couple hundred quid to fix but engine rebuilds aren't cheap!

I've decided to enjoy the mk6 and make a decision when the 12 months warranty is almost up.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: gaurav_aidasani on 19 February 2016, 09:11
If you have an approved used warranty I think you'll be safe. In a years time you could always renew your warranty for 3-400. I thought approved used cars came with 2 year warranty these days?
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: gaurav_aidasani on 19 February 2016, 09:15
Nice. Enjoy the MK7.

Still in two minds about whether to try and pull out from the sale, or whether to just do the updated tensioner job and try not to worry.

If you were to pull out what other car would you look at?
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: ScreenMachine on 19 February 2016, 09:26
If I did pull out, which I think might be difficult at this stage, it would be a post-2012 Audi A3/A4 Quattro. I always miss the 4WD and what it does to handling.

The likelihood is I'll go through with the deal now as I'm a little too far into the process to walk away easily.

The decision then will be between getting the job done preventatively, which essentially adds about £1K to the price of the car to do it properly, or 'trust' the warranty.

Although I've been assured the warranty would cover me, I did have a problem with my last approved car which the warranty didn't cover, when the clutch jammed and needed replacing, which they wriggled out of.

If you read the Das Welt Auto warranty carefully, it's worded such that they could pretty much get away with covering nothing at all - e.g., it states that manufacturing/ mechanical defects are not covered. Would this be one of those?

I think it's risky to assume before the fact the warranty will definitely put a new engine in a car, even with assurances.

The other issue is, even if the warranty people did the honorable thing, what if the issue occurs on holiday abroad, etc.? The whole idea of having a new-ish, supposedly well-made car is to have it *be* reliable. IMO VW's position of 'if it blows up, then we'll fix it' with a known problem with a simple (if expensive) fix is unacceptable. Will the warranty pay for temporary accommodation while I'm stranded midway to my destination, loss of holiday, etc? I bet it won't.

I find it curious VW are so reluctant to do the job. I've offered to pay for it to be done at the originating dealer and my local, and both just said to use the warranty if it goes wrong. The locals said they've 'only done twelve or so' of these. I think that's a lot given where I live, and the fact that many probably went to indies instead of main dealers anyway.

I've never owned a car that wasn't a VW or Audi, but I'll be much more cautious before I buy into the brand again.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: SunnyGTI on 19 February 2016, 11:15
I also have the VW approved warranty and am planning to sell up once the warranty expires or extend the warranty...depending on how I feel about the car then haha

The warranty should cover it...based on what VW said to me, but I wouldn't be surprised if they kick up a fuss! However, I would always refer to the warranty and complain on twitter etc if it got to that (complaining on twitter really does help!)

You can always call VW customer care, ask them to search on their system for what repairs have been carried out in the past. Then ask them about the tensioner failure common fault (to which they will say nothing on the system, they are not aware etc). Then you can email VW care (I can PM you the email addresses if you need) and have something in writing to confirm the warranty will cover it?
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: ScreenMachine on 19 February 2016, 12:49
Thanks. Yes please do PM me the email, or any contact info, I don't think it would hurt to have them put in writing that it would be covered!
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: ScreenMachine on 19 February 2016, 14:07
Re-reading the Approved Used Warranty wording, it states repeatedly that consequential damage is only covered up to £2K. I called them and their opinion was that the engine blowing as a result of timing chain tensioner failing would be considered 'consequential'.

The dealership are assuring me they'd do the rest under 'good will'. How much that would mean in reality if the engine did blow, who knows.

Honestly, what a bloody mess. Why don't VW just recall the affected cars and fit the new tensioner. Job done.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: SunnyGTI on 19 February 2016, 18:42
Hmm. Is it better to just continue to renew the warranty each year (someone said it was about £300 each year?)

Tbh even after knowing of the risk of the tensioner failing the mk6 GTI was the best all round car I could find for my budget and so I took the risk given warranty is there for a year.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: ScreenMachine on 19 February 2016, 18:46
I cancelled my purchase today. The dealership were very nice but basically couldn't guarantee that the goodwill over and above the used warranty £2000 would cover me.

Since I hadn't gone past a certain point, losing a deposit of £250 was minuscule compared to the potential bill if this problem had occurred.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: BlinGTIes on 19 February 2016, 19:02
Sorry to hear SM, but dont do something you're not comfortable with. In all honesty I'm not sure I'd have gone ahead if I'd known, I probably would because my heart was set on a GTI and I couldn't afford a mk7!

Like sunny said, it's a bloody nice car so I'm just going to enjoy it now I'm stuck with it  :wink:
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: ScreenMachine on 19 February 2016, 19:09
Thanks.

Yeah if I already owned the car it would have been different, but where I had the option to withdraw it seemed the most sensible choice, particularly since there are other cars I'm even more into which don't have such a destructive known issue (hopefully!).

Such a shame, though, lovely car. There is a very nice GTD for sale near me... ;)
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: BlinGTIes on 19 February 2016, 19:22
What about the mk7?
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Hardwell on 20 February 2016, 09:32
I'd worry about the MK7 suffering with the same issue though and that's the reason I'll be looking elsewhere early next year!  VW haven't exactly got a good track record in this area - I remember the MK4 GTi turbo had an issue with water pumps taking the belt out prematurely and the R32 also had cam chain issues (that make repairing a MK6 GTi look cheap in comparison).  It's sad as the idea of a chain is it's meant to be more reliable than a composite belt, yet the reality is you'd be far better of with a belt that you have to change every 40-60,000 miles for c.£250 at an indie than a stretched chain which costs upwards of £1200 depending on your luck. 

What annoys me the most is my mate runs a 1997 Micra as a daily which he bought ten years ago on 85,000 that he's now thrashed up to 200,000 and it's still on its original chain!
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: gaurav_aidasani on 20 February 2016, 20:17
Personally I don't see why the idea of changing the tensioner is so stressful to some. It's just like a cam belt change. Plenty of owners on this forum have had it changed and seem to be happy with it.

Like someone said, GTIs are bloody good all rounders and very few cars come close to it in terms of practicality and performance.

Nevertheless each to their own and if you're not comfortable with a tensioner change then you look somewhere else, and enjoy what you drive even if it's a micra with 200k on the clock haha

SM all the best with your new search, do let us know what you go for !
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: BlinGTIes on 20 February 2016, 20:25
I was quoted about £1,200 by VW to have it changed. sounds a bit steep!
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Hardwell on 20 February 2016, 21:20
The MK6 GTi is a fantastic car - I love mine - it's just a shame poor engineering has tainted its reputation!

I also agree it's just a tensioner that, in isolation, isn't that big a deal.  The problem is though not many (including me) found out that there's a problem with it until it's too late;  I only found out when my EML came on and the RAC bloke told me to prepare myself for the worst! 

VW should have done the decent thing from the start and recalled all affected cars, but as it is, they've made themselves a nice little earner out of it.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: joe6 on 21 February 2016, 17:42
I'd worry about the MK7 suffering with the same issue though and that's the reason I'll be looking elsewhere early next year!  VW haven't exactly got a good track record in this area - I remember the MK4 GTi turbo had an issue with water pumps taking the belt out prematurely and the R32 also had cam chain issues (that make repairing a MK6 GTi look cheap in comparison).  It's sad as the idea of a chain is it's meant to be more reliable than a composite belt, yet the reality is you'd be far better of with a belt that you have to change every 40-60,000 miles for c.£250 at an indie than a stretched chain which costs upwards of £1200 depending on your luck. 

What annoys me the most is my mate runs a 1997 Micra as a daily which he bought ten years ago on 85,000 that he's now thrashed up to 200,000 and it's still on its original chain!

My daughter has my old Astra coupe 2.2 (X reg) on 170k and still on the original chain with no problems. VW just did not do enough testing and left us with the bill. :angry:
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Hardwell on 22 February 2016, 20:27
Exactly and the same with EP3 & FN2 Civic Type R - both chain-driven and go 150k + miles without issue.  That's why I wouldn't be surprised if in two years time the same happens with the MK7s as they start coming out of warranty.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: ScreenMachine on 22 February 2016, 22:08
This is not the same at all as a timing belt change.

There is not an inherent fault implied in a timing belt/tensioner which means it could be expected to fail at any time regardless of mileage or maintenance.

It is a service item with a safe limit in terms of age/mileage and it is designed to be relatively easily and economically replaced as part of interval servicing.

The timing chain tensioner in the golf is assumed not to be a service item, but there for the reasonable life of the vehicle. They have been proved to fail randomly regardless of mileage and maintenance level. They were never designed to be routinely replaced, so access is difficult and parts are prohibitively expensive if you do the job properly and replace the chains, guides and covers. There are, I believe, four revisions of the chains themselves, so this could be chain stretch as well as tensioner failure.

It is also too early to tell whether the latest revision of the tensioners/chains are immune to problems and actually fix the issue in the long term. So changing them out will not necessarily fix the problem.

For me, this made it an unacceptable risk in terms of a pretty large investment.

I'm actually surprised existing owners haven't been more vocal about the problem to VW, etc. In the case of the well-publicised piston ring issue with the longitudinal version of the TFSI engine in the A4, after Watchdog publicised it, Audi started replacing the engines with no cost to the owner and refunding customers who had previously paid to solve the issue out of their own pockets.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: BlinGTIes on 23 February 2016, 00:29
Maybe this forum should take all this evidence to watchdog too.....?
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: ScreenMachine on 23 February 2016, 07:16
I think it's certainly become a serious enough issue it might stand a chance of appearing on the programme, especially if you pitch it as a kind of 'hot on the heels of the Audi piton rings, another VW engine causing owners big headaches and big bills...'

Are there other forums with similar lists? The more owners/evidence you have there's a serious issue, the better.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: mikegti77 on 23 February 2016, 12:58
Thought I’d update my experience since having my tension replaced 2 years and around 25k miles ago, and unfortunately it’s not good reading….

To recap, my car is a 2009 59 reg, totally standard in everyway, serviced every 10K miles without fail and driven with mechanical symphony. Current mileage is 79K, mileage when tensioner was first replaced to latest design was around 52K miles.

All has been good until around 3 weeks ago when the car began to feel ‘flat’ under 4K rpm, almost like I had lost 70bhp and the engine was holding back, and it sounded like a sewing machine at idle. Booked in my local indie specialist who after inspecting confirmed a stretched timing chain – causing timing to be out, hence slowness and sewing machine noise. It is worth pointing out I only changed the tensioner at 52K not the chain as well. So being an early car the chain has a TPI against it as it has been revised since. During strip down not only was the chain stretched, but the car had suffered exactly the same issue with the cam pressure release valve casting (think that’s the correct term) as ‘RocketRossUK’ on page 39 of this thread, even down to the mesh coming away. Luckily like RocketRossUK no damaged was caused to the engine.

I have the car back, what difference, quiet and response again. In the end I had new chain (latest version), chain guides, chain tensioner (latest version again), cam pressure release valve (updated version), chain cover, oil and filter. Oh, and just to add to the final bill my sump was also heavily pitted and rusting, resulting in oil starting to seep through, so a new sump was also fitted. Top tip btw – check your sumps condition, as VW do not fitted protection plastic under trays under the sump like the diesels, which means stones and elements get to it.

I can only echo everyone thoughts on the thread – the Mk6 GTI is a great car, but VW really dropped the ball with the early TSI 2.0 engines.  The timing chain is not on any servicing schedule to be changed, and therefore should last the life of the car, or certainly a lot longer than 79K. You only have to search on autotrader private sales nationwide to see people selling 2009 / 2010 GTI’s with new engines fitted to see the problem is fairly wide spread. My advice if looking at 2009 / 2010 GTI's would be to either buy a car with a new VW engine fitted, or with new chain / tensioner, or budget to get it done ASAP or spend £400 a year on VW warranty. I really fancy a MK7 GTI, but I’ll be hanging onto my MK6 for a while yet to ensure there is evidence that the MK7 TSI’s are better.

On the same week that my timing chain was diagnosed, someone also bumped into the rear of the car while sat in traffic, resulting in the car being repaired through their insurance next week – new rear nudge bar and bumper. Not the best of weeks! LOL

Rant over  :smiley:
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: RocketRossUK on 23 February 2016, 15:37
^^^^As above it very important to have all the parts changed not just the tensioner. Even though i have all the parts changed, there is still worry about it coming back. I make sure i pop the hood once every 2 weeks and listen to cold start up.

Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Hardwell on 23 February 2016, 19:22
Thought I’d update my experience since having my tension replaced 2 years and around 25k miles ago, and unfortunately it’s not good reading….

To recap, my car is a 2009 59 reg, totally standard in everyway, serviced every 10K miles without fail and driven with mechanical symphony. Current mileage is 79K, mileage when tensioner was first replaced to latest design was around 52K miles.

All has been good until around 3 weeks ago when the car began to feel ‘flat’ under 4K rpm, almost like I had lost 70bhp and the engine was holding back, and it sounded like a sewing machine at idle. Booked in my local indie specialist who after inspecting confirmed a stretched timing chain – causing timing to be out, hence slowness and sewing machine noise. It is worth pointing out I only changed the tensioner at 52K not the chain as well. So being an early car the chain has a TPI against it as it has been revised since. During strip down not only was the chain stretched, but the car had suffered exactly the same issue with the cam pressure release valve casting (think that’s the correct term) as ‘RocketRossUK’ on page 39 of this thread, even down to the mesh coming away. Luckily like RocketRossUK no damaged was caused to the engine.

I have the car back, what difference, quiet and response again. In the end I had new chain (latest version), chain guides, chain tensioner (latest version again), cam pressure release valve (updated version), chain cover, oil and filter. Oh, and just to add to the final bill my sump was also heavily pitted and rusting, resulting in oil starting to seep through, so a new sump was also fitted. Top tip btw – check your sumps condition, as VW do not fitted protection plastic under trays under the sump like the diesels, which means stones and elements get to it.

I can only echo everyone thoughts on the thread – the Mk6 GTI is a great car, but VW really dropped the ball with the early TSI 2.0 engines.  The timing chain is not on any servicing schedule to be changed, and therefore should last the life of the car, or certainly a lot longer than 79K. You only have to search on autotrader private sales nationwide to see people selling 2009 / 2010 GTI’s with new engines fitted to see the problem is fairly wide spread. My advice if looking at 2009 / 2010 GTI's would be to either buy a car with a new VW engine fitted, or with new chain / tensioner, or budget to get it done ASAP or spend £400 a year on VW warranty. I really fancy a MK7 GTI, but I’ll be hanging onto my MK6 for a while yet to ensure there is evidence that the MK7 TSI’s are better.

On the same week that my timing chain was diagnosed, someone also bumped into the rear of the car while sat in traffic, resulting in the car being repaired through their insurance next week – new rear nudge bar and bumper. Not the best of weeks! LOL

Rant over  :smiley:

Hey, how much did the Indie charge you, if you don't mind me asking?  I had exactly the same replaced at a main dealer.

I'm like you on the MK7 as it's too soon to tell whether VW have sorted it for good.  I might go down the GTD route next as they're belt driven still.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Hardwell on 23 February 2016, 20:05
I think it's certainly become a serious enough issue it might stand a chance of appearing on the programme, especially if you pitch it as a kind of 'hot on the heels of the Audi piton rings, another VW engine causing owners big headaches and big bills...'

Are there other forums with similar lists? The more owners/evidence you have there's a serious issue, the better.

Did you decide on what to get next?  I've been in a couple of MK6 GTDs and they're seriously rapid - especially in gear times.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: mikegti77 on 23 February 2016, 20:06
Thought I’d update my experience since having my tension replaced 2 years and around 25k miles ago, and unfortunately it’s not good reading….

To recap, my car is a 2009 59 reg, totally standard in everyway, serviced every 10K miles without fail and driven with mechanical symphony. Current mileage is 79K, mileage when tensioner was first replaced to latest design was around 52K miles.

All has been good until around 3 weeks ago when the car began to feel ‘flat’ under 4K rpm, almost like I had lost 70bhp and the engine was holding back, and it sounded like a sewing machine at idle. Booked in my local indie specialist who after inspecting confirmed a stretched timing chain – causing timing to be out, hence slowness and sewing machine noise. It is worth pointing out I only changed the tensioner at 52K not the chain as well. So being an early car the chain has a TPI against it as it has been revised since. During strip down not only was the chain stretched, but the car had suffered exactly the same issue with the cam pressure release valve casting (think that’s the correct term) as ‘RocketRossUK’ on page 39 of this thread, even down to the mesh coming away. Luckily like RocketRossUK no damaged was caused to the engine.

I have the car back, what difference, quiet and response again. In the end I had new chain (latest version), chain guides, chain tensioner (latest version again), cam pressure release valve (updated version), chain cover, oil and filter. Oh, and just to add to the final bill my sump was also heavily pitted and rusting, resulting in oil starting to seep through, so a new sump was also fitted. Top tip btw – check your sumps condition, as VW do not fitted protection plastic under trays under the sump like the diesels, which means stones and elements get to it.

I can only echo everyone thoughts on the thread – the Mk6 GTI is a great car, but VW really dropped the ball with the early TSI 2.0 engines.  The timing chain is not on any servicing schedule to be changed, and therefore should last the life of the car, or certainly a lot longer than 79K. You only have to search on autotrader private sales nationwide to see people selling 2009 / 2010 GTI’s with new engines fitted to see the problem is fairly wide spread. My advice if looking at 2009 / 2010 GTI's would be to either buy a car with a new VW engine fitted, or with new chain / tensioner, or budget to get it done ASAP or spend £400 a year on VW warranty. I really fancy a MK7 GTI, but I’ll be hanging onto my MK6 for a while yet to ensure there is evidence that the MK7 TSI’s are better.

On the same week that my timing chain was diagnosed, someone also bumped into the rear of the car while sat in traffic, resulting in the car being repaired through their insurance next week – new rear nudge bar and bumper. Not the best of weeks! LOL

Rant over  :smiley:

Hey, how much did the Indie charge you, if you don't mind me asking?  I had exactly the same replaced at a main dealer.

I'm like you on the MK7 as it's too soon to tell whether VW have sorted it for good.  I might go down the GTD route next as they're belt driven still.

No I don't mind telling, the cost may help other members decide on getting the work done or what to expect if the worst happens. Not much change out of £800 with labour (5 hours), parts & good old VAT. But remember I had a new sump fitted, so knock off £125 for the sump. Not sure how that compares to a main stealer if you were paying.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Hardwell on 23 February 2016, 20:34
I paid £1390 at a main dealer!  Wow, that was a bloody good price mate.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: mikegti77 on 23 February 2016, 22:16
I paid £1390 at a main dealer!  Wow, that was a bloody good price mate.

I guess the main difference would have been labour charge per hour, mine was £792 including the new sump. Pleased yours sorted, it does leave sour taste in your mouth, sad to say but the mk6 gti maybe remembered for the wrong reasons. It will certainly make me think twice before buying another TSI VW.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Hardwell on 23 February 2016, 22:27
I paid £1390 at a main dealer!  Wow, that was a bloody good price mate.

I guess the main difference would have been labour charge per hour, mine was £792 including the new sump. Pleased yours sorted, it does leave sour taste in your mouth, sad to say but the mk6 gti maybe remembered for the wrong reasons. It will certainly make me think twice before buying another TSI VW.

I'm pleased it's done, but the sad thing is I still don't trust it.  I'm just gutted that none of the indies round my way had the tools to take the job on as yours was pretty much half the price of mine.

To be honest, I don't like the fact VW let this problem go as it means they'd probably do it again.  My mate was telling me earlier that they've postponed release of the new Focus RS as they've found a major mechanical issue on extended testing. This is costing Ford serious money as they've had to shut down production while they design the problem out when they could have gone the cheap(er) and easier route of releasing it anyway and fixing the cars that do go wrong whilst still under warranty.  The difference between American and German customer service.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: mikegti77 on 23 February 2016, 22:35
I paid £1390 at a main dealer!  Wow, that was a bloody good price mate.

I guess the main difference would have been labour charge per hour, mine was £792 including the new sump. Pleased yours sorted, it does leave sour taste in your mouth, sad to say but the mk6 gti maybe remembered for the wrong reasons. It will certainly make me think twice before buying another TSI VW.

I'm pleased it's done, but the sad thing is I still don't trust it.  I'm just gutted that none of the indies round my way had the tools to take the job on as yours was pretty much half the price of mine.

To be honest, I don't like the fact VW let this problem go as it means they'd probably do it again.  My mate was telling me earlier that they've postponed release of the new Focus RS as they've found a major mechanical issue on extended testing. This is costing Ford serious money as they've had to shut down production when they could have gone the cheap(er) and easier route of releasing it anyway and fixing the cars that do go wrong whilst still under warranty.  The difference between American and German customer service.

Funny you should mention special tools, my indie had to buy in a special tool from vw for the job, added a days wait onto the job.

Yeah VW are not doing themselves any favour's at the moment with customers on top of diesel gate.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: ScreenMachine on 23 February 2016, 22:53
Quote from: Hardwell
Did you decide on what to get next?  I've been in a couple of MK6 GTDs and they're seriously rapid - especially in gear times.
[/quote

Yes have bought a 2011 A3 Quattro TDI, the Black Edition. Seems like an amazing machine, and I found one really low mileage and full Audi Service History. Must admit it's lovely not to worry about the engine blowing any second, and having to do major engine surgery before I can really relax and enjoy it a bit.

The car I also had a test drive in which was superior in every way was a 2012 A4 Quattro 2.0 TFSI (by 2012 they had cured the piston rings). Best car I've ever driven. No more power than the Golf GTI, but the control and handling was in a totally different league. It was a few grand more though, and the final killer was incredibly bad mpg. Even driving relatively carefully to see what I could eke out of it I managed no more than 24mpg on a mixed run. Ouch. Hence the diesel!

I'll say I'm saddened by how VW have handled the timing chain tensioner issue. I've never owned a non VAG group car, and have had three generations of golf over the years including a MK4 GTI 1.8T which is still going strong (with regular servicing) at 150,000+ miles and went down to the south of France last year without missing a beat. It's this type of build quality and reliability which has me coming back to the brand, as well as the fact the GTI is a lovely and iconic car. VW should do the right thing by owners and their own heritage and sort any of these issues out without question and keep the reputation of the car pristine.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: joe6 on 25 February 2016, 17:43
VW Have dropped the ball with several engines. They have known about timing chain stretch on the 1.4 TSI for some time and seem to have admitted it if this link is to be believed but VW UK do not appear to accept any responsibility.
.http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=95765

Anyone any idea of revision dates for chains and cam pressure release valve?
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Hardwell on 29 February 2016, 17:57
VW Have dropped the ball with several engines. They have known about timing chain stretch on the 1.4 TSI for some time and seem to have admitted it if this link is to be believed but VW UK do not appear to accept any responsibility.
.http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=95765

Anyone any idea of revision dates for chains and cam pressure release valve?

I don't know, but I'm presuming I've had the latest version fitted (or at least hoping lol) - V06K 109 158 AD
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: joe6 on 01 March 2016, 10:51
Thanks for the info - much appreciated.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: chris1h on 01 March 2016, 18:11
is the front page of this kept up to date?
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: bob@ludgate-consult.co.uk on 14 March 2016, 11:20

Car purchased with mileage 6324

Always serviced as recommended by VW

Date                            Mileage                     

27/01/2011                   25884                                     Replaced fuel sender
09/11/2011                   38138                                     Repaired intake manifold
21/03/2012                   45843                                     Replaced timing chain and tensioner
16/12/2014                   93948                                  Replaced injectors

NO Compression Timing chain probably!

IS THIS NORMAL?
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: AntGTD on 14 March 2016, 12:19

Car purchased with mileage 6324

Always serviced as recommended by VW

Date                            Mileage                     

27/01/2011                   25884                                     Replaced fuel sender
09/11/2011                   38138                                     Repaired intake manifold
21/03/2012                   45843                                     Replaced timing chain and tensioner
16/12/2014                   93948                                  Replaced injectors

NO Compression Timing chain probably!

IS THIS NORMAL?

Which Golf is it?
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Ali6295 on 17 April 2016, 18:35
2009 gti 75000miles. Chain jumped causing damage to valves four weeks after the chain and tensioner were replaced as a precautionary measure by a local mechanic. All genuine vw parts were used. Vw halifax have diagnosed the car and have said the oil pump and regulator failed and this was the cause of the engine failing. This however does not explain why the chain jumped. Currently arguing this fact with them as all parts where purchased from the dealer are covered by warranty. Seems to me they are purposefully blaming the oil pump to avoid paying out for the damage to my car. Does anybody have any advice on what i should do?
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: chor808 on 06 June 2016, 14:32
Hello All,

I have a 2009 Passat with the 2.0 TSI engine found in the GTI. It was purchased in Canada and now I use it back home in the UK. We have had it since new and will drive it as long as possible, it is left had drive so have no intension (or chance) of ever selling it. It has been 'tweaked' a bit with a K04.

I was reading over this thread and I have to guess that my car is in the group of cars affected by this issue. At the moment it sounds fine at start up and has done 50k+ miles. From what I'm reading is it now that both the chain and the tensioner needs to be replaced or can you just change the tensioner to the new part?

Thanks!
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: The ANT on 06 June 2016, 16:34
If you're replacing the tensioner you may as well replace the chain, most of the work would already be done in just the tensioner, and then it would be longer before it needs attention and you also have increased peace of mind.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Chris B on 07 June 2016, 17:16
Hello. Just bought a 2012 GTi and looking through I am horrified about this potential failure. FVWSH. I checked my handbook and all it says is change chain every 120,000 miles. After reading this, I rang my local VW dealer and they checked the chassis no on their database and nothing has popped up. What would be next advice?

I have noticed that when it is at temperature, it sounds like the tappits have gone but I had a few cars where the tappits have sounded loud once started and warm. Anyone else got this on theirs? Or could this be an indication that the chain tensioner/chain is starting to go?
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: chor808 on 08 June 2016, 14:07
If you're replacing the tensioner you may as well replace the chain, most of the work would already be done in just the tensioner, and then it would be longer before it needs attention and you also have increased peace of mind.

Is there a good place to buy the parts from to replace the whole lot. I expect I just need to engine number?
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: SunnyGTI on 08 June 2016, 15:38
Hello. Just bought a 2012 GTi and looking through I am horrified about this potential failure. FVWSH. I checked my handbook and all it says is change chain every 120,000 miles. After reading this, I rang my local VW dealer and they checked the chassis no on their database and nothing has popped up. What would be next advice?

I have noticed that when it is at temperature, it sounds like the tappits have gone but I had a few cars where the tappits have sounded loud once started and warm. Anyone else got this on theirs? Or could this be an indication that the chain tensioner/chain is starting to go?

There are YouTube videos for the noise when the chain tensioner is about to go

But the gti engine is also quite noisy anyways (a ticking noise) due to the injectors
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Chris B on 08 June 2016, 15:51
Cheers for the reply. I've trolled through all 58 pages of this trying to find out more info about this. I don't mean to bore people even more I'm just trying to put my mind at ease.

From what I read it is more noticeable I a cold start once the pressure is out the system. Do you hear the sound on a warm engine or just cold? If that is the case ours sounds like what a lot of other people are saying it should sound like (ie like a normal quiet engine)

Does anyone have a video of their engine when warm just on tick so I can compare. All the videos I see are of people with the problems or a quick how it should sound sat in the car and not near the engine bay
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: SunnyGTI on 08 June 2016, 16:59
Chris- just to check you have the 2012 GTI? The tensioners were redesigned slightly as only the earlier ones were prone to failure. So given you have 2012 model you should already have the new tensioner fitted from factory!

Regarding engine noise, if you are able to record a video of your car and put up on here then maybe people can comment to see if it sounds normal or not
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Chris B on 08 June 2016, 17:36
I say 2012 as in it said on advert. 2012 golf GTi on a 61 plate so it be Jan to march registered then won't it so before the revised ones were fitted
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: BlinGTIes on 08 June 2016, 21:56
Chris, I went through exactly the same thing. Bought my 2011 (61 plate) GTI in Jan then read all the horror stories with the tensioner. I was bricking it even to a point I was afraid to start the blooming car.

Having gone through these pages it looks like the ones that have had problems are 2009/2010 cars, not seen a 2011 model have a failure yet, I think we should have at least had the revised tensioner fitted but I know other revisions have been issued since.

In the end I decided that I'm just going to enjoy the car, I bought from a VW dealer and came with a year's warranty so I'll worry about it later. I've taken the car in for the machines to fix other little issues twice and when I asked them about the tensioner one was unaware of the problem and the other said he'd only seen one need fixing in all this time.  Doesn't mean it's not going to ever happen but I guess what I'm saying is try to enjoy the car because it's a lovely car.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: SunnyGTI on 08 June 2016, 22:24
Maybe see how much a VW warranty is (if you don't have one already). There is a phone number on the VW extended warranty site and at least that way you are covered for other things that could go wrong
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: o`Neil on 17 July 2016, 08:32
What`s the cost replace the timing chain tensioner and is is worth replacing any other items at the same time?
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: mikegti77 on 11 August 2016, 12:13
For those of you with 2009 / 10 GTI's and who have not yet changed your tensioners...

I was at my local VW indie last week having a minor service carried out, another mk6 GTI was in there, 10 plate with around 65k on clock... failed tensioner, bent valves etc.  Also, a 2009 Audi A4 2.0 TFSI (same EA888 engine) in for exactly the same failure, this time requiring a complete engine replacement such the damage.

Sadly as time goes by and mileages increase, more 09 / 10 2.0 TSI tensioners will fail. I am still yet to see any real evidence of 2011 onwards GTI's having wide spread tensioner failures, some good news I guess. 

If you plan on keeping your car for any length of time, IMO budget to replace the timing chain as well, read my experience on page 56 of this thread of not chaging the chain as well.

Pays your money, takes your chance...
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)
Post by: Niche on 29 August 2016, 18:28
Yet another 2010 tensioner to fail :sad:

My wife came home from work, car was perfect then wouldn't start the next morning.

Taken to local dealership who said the car required a new engine due to piston/valve contact.

I had to deal with VW customer services 4 months ago when I bought a car that was involved in a fraud case from their new flagship dealership in west London so didn't have much hope of getting any contribution after the 3 month wait to get my money back that time, with no compensation.

As expected no contribution from VW uk although the dealer has offered £300 towards cost as I get my Golf R serviced there.
Some dealers are great, some are shocking, with VWuk burying their head in the sand regarding serious faults and then they still expect customer loyalty.

Total cost £5360 for a non serviceable part that has failed on a car than is worth 10k with just over 50k on the clock.

I have had it with VW, customer service is non existent and although I have always stood by the VW brand these will be the last Volkswagen vehicles we buy. Far more trouble/money than any car is worth.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)
Post by: gaurav_aidasani on 05 September 2016, 21:30
Yet another 2010 tensioner to fail :sad:

My wife came home from work, car was perfect then wouldn't start the next morning.

Taken to local dealership who said the car required a new engine due to piston/valve contact.

I had to deal with VW customer services 4 months ago when I bought a car that was involved in a fraud case from their new flagship dealership in west London so didn't have much hope of getting any contribution after the 3 month wait to get my money back that time, with no compensation.

As expected no contribution from VW uk although the dealer has offered £300 towards cost as I get my Golf R serviced there.
Some dealers are great, some are shocking, with VWuk burying their head in the sand regarding serious faults and then they still expect customer loyalty.

Total cost £5360 for a non serviceable part that has failed on a car than is worth 10k with just over 50k on the clock.

I have had it with VW, customer service is non existent and although I have always stood by the VW brand these will be the last Volkswagen vehicles we buy. Far more trouble/money than any car is worth.

Wow, sounds like you ended up with a lemon. And VW don't seem to have any interest in repairing it's reputation. Really feel for you, hopefully you can see some light at the end of the tunnel
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: RonnieCompost on 24 October 2016, 17:02
This has just happened to my 60 plate gti with just over 70k on the clock.

Took to my local independent garage who have quoted £4.5k for a new engine, and that is with a deal on the labour  :sick:

Going to get in touch with VW to see if there is anything they will do but not holding my breath. Has anyone had any luck with a similar age / mileage car with no warranty?
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: The ANT on 24 October 2016, 17:19
I know of a mini that was given a new engine for free a 11 years old because of a cam chain issue so keep pestering, make yourself a pain in their arse.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: topher on 01 November 2016, 14:32
If it's of any use to anyone on here, we've just had a truck load of brand new engines delivered (old new stock from VW so comes with 2 yr manufacturer warranty). There is unfortunately only one 2.0 TSI engine available which we can offer for £3000 fitted inc VAT. Call 01543 495700 or email info@midlandvw.co.uk
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Martin Larose on 21 January 2017, 19:31
great thread, very informative. running an 09 plate myself, this issue is constantly on my mind.

would be great to hear some precautions I could take to try and avoid it.
There are no precautions apart from changing the tensioner to the latest revision.  As I stated in an earlier post this will cost about £300 by a specialist.
Sometimes it shows by a rattly chain noise at cold start up. Sometimes no warning at all the mechanical ratchet just fails.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Martin Larose on 21 January 2017, 19:33
Can I have some advice please?
I have a 2009 VW GTi. It's only done 58k miles with full VW service history.
I am in the process of having a new engine fitted as the timing chain has jumped and wrecked the engine. I have been told by the technician that the chain tensioner has gone causing the chain to go slack and jump. I have since learnt about the timing chain rattle which I have experienced.
VW do not want to know and wanted me to pay for a costly investigation to determine if there could possibly be any good will towards the cost of a replacement engine.
I have also learnt that the timing chain tensioner is up to design revision K.
I have complained on the VW complaints line but heard nothing. The VW love affair has ended.
Any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Rowley102 on 25 January 2017, 14:10
59 plate VW Golf GTI timing chain tensioner failure at 66,500 in May 2016. Contribution of 2k for timing chain and tensioner from third party warranty company. Needed new clutch at same time
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Scottw on 05 March 2017, 16:01
Can I ask,how much a new tensioner and fitting is ?
If I got it done at vw,I'd get 2yr warranty,so should be covered if it broke,
I could get a new one fitted every 2 yrs so it would always be under warranty from breaking ??
I haven't bought a car yet as in 2 minds between mk6 or mk7
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: mikegti77 on 05 March 2017, 16:54
Can I ask,how much a new tensioner and fitting is ?
If I got it done at vw,I'd get 2yr warranty,so should be covered if it broke,
I could get a new one fitted every 2 yrs so it would always be under warranty from breaking ??
I haven't bought a car yet as in 2 minds between mk6 or mk7

Pages 14 & 56 of this thread will be of interest regarding costs....
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: david25 on 06 March 2017, 17:25
This has just happened to my 60 plate gti with just over 70k on the clock.

Took to my local independent garage who have quoted £4.5k for a new engine, and that is with a deal on the labour  :sick:

Going to get in touch with VW to see if there is anything they will do but not holding my breath. Has anyone had any luck with a similar age / mileage car with no warranty?

Shouldnt a 60 plate be OK?

60 is September 2010 to Feb 2011, so after the May 2010 build date
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: jackday1986 on 23 March 2017, 11:18
Mines just gone -

2010 GTI 65000 miles.

IN an indy at the moment and 3rd party warranty company are refusing to pay out as they are saying its wear and tear.

Next port of call is VW to see if they will contribute.

Is there a letter or similar somewhere I can use?
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: david25 on 27 March 2017, 14:47
Has this TSB (from USA) been posted?

http://www.golfmk6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=47128
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: david25 on 27 March 2017, 14:48
Mines just gone -

2010 GTI 65000 miles.


Can you tell us the registration date?
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: MikeAlanCas on 21 June 2017, 14:29
Had the diagnosis on mine this morning  :sick:

08 Plate 1.4 TSi GT (140) - 75000m on the clock.

Took to a fantastic independent garage this morning (CIVS) after Engine Management Warning flashed up earlier this week and they've said 99% sure the timing chain has slipped meaning likely engine strip to replace tensioners and extras.

Staring a big job and £1000 in the face.

Wondering if anyone has paid for the work and had any problems since work being done or better to cut losses, trade in and just get a new set of wheels?
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: joe6 on 11 July 2017, 10:45
Price seems about right. VW now do a 'pack' that includes tensioner, chain and sprockets etc that works out cheaper than buying separately. From memory a couple of people have had further problems on this thread but only changed the tensioner not the complete set.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Hardwell on 17 July 2017, 19:43
You've probably made the decision now anyway, but for what it's worth, I had the chain, tensioner and guides changed at 80k/December 2015 after the original chain slipped and it's been as good as gold since.  I still have the car but will be getting rid of it soon for an A class Merc. 

I would never trust VW again after letting this mess happen and not doing the decent thing in the first place and recalling all affected models - no matter how much it would have cost them!
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Snoopy on 19 July 2017, 18:56
I would avoid BMW as well as they have had issues with chains and tensioners too and ignored the issue. :wink:

Price seems about right. VW now do a 'pack' that includes tensioner, chain and sprockets etc that works out cheaper than buying separately. From memory a couple of people have had further problems on this thread but only changed the tensioner not the complete set.
The cars are getting mileagey now, so I wouldn't recommend simply changing the tensioner anymore.
The design of the chain meens it will stretch with use..
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Hardwell on 22 July 2017, 20:41
Does anyone know if there have been similar issues with the MK7 GTi?  The earliest must be getting on for four years old now...



Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: joe6 on 24 July 2017, 15:50
Does anyone know if there have been similar issues with the MK7 GTi?  The earliest must be getting on for four years old now...

Not heard of any. Why not post this query on the MK7 thread?
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: KieranD79 on 02 August 2017, 10:47
Hi all,

I've searched for an answer to this particular question but can't seem to find it(unless I've scanned past it).  :smiley:

I have a July 2012 GTi with what appears to be the latest revision of the tensioner.  I check through the inspection hole on the timing chain housing.

My question being, if the revised part is fitted are they still likely to fail and has there been any cases of the new tensioner failing?

I'm just coming up to 52k and wondering if I should still get it changed.  Apart from a slight rattle on cold start up that lasts about a second, the car doesn't demonstrate any other symptoms.  My VW dealer says this is normal as it would last longer if the tensioner was the cause but it's still sits in my mind that it could be an early warning sign.

Any info or comments would be greatly appreciated.  :smiley:

Thanks
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Jimmgc51 on 07 August 2017, 12:33
Hmmm not sure mate to be honest..

Mine rattled on cold starts only for a few seconds, a bit like a chain slapping off metal. At this point the oil pressure builds and pulls it tight so to say it would last longer by the dealer I would be sceptical.

Also this WAS NOT always there and started to happen, you know your car and so if this is a new sound then it's possible it's on it's way out

For reference mine broke about 4 x weeks later!

That being said however I'm yet to hear of the new revised ones going and so thought this issue was resolved so maybe nothing to worry about.

I would personally have VW make reference to it that you have raised this as a concern and they have told you it's normal, perhaps also speak with VWUK (That's what I did) then if it does go you can say 'told you so' you ignored my concerns and gives you a bit of weight. OR you fix it off your own back circa £500 for peace of mind BUT there may be nothing wrong.

VW certainly won't cover this and with mine they even refused to do this work for it's a non serviceable part so would ned to be 3rd party (unless this stance has changed of course) mine popped about 2 years back now!
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: ShaunV90 on 31 August 2017, 14:17
My 59 plate GTi is currently on 99K with zero symptoms(touch wood). I never got much history with the car other than fully stamped service book. Am I naive to think it has already been done and I shouldn't worry? I'm still waiting on my V5 but I may be cheeky and contact the previous owner to see if they had it done(they may even be on here).

I've been skimming through this thread while in work so forgive me if I have missed anything. What parts would I  need to order from VW if I want peace of mind? I was quoted £47.20 from a local VW dealers parts dept for the tensioner alone.

Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Snoopy on 31 August 2017, 21:45
My 59 plate GTi is currently on 99K with zero symptoms(touch wood). I never got much history with the car other than fully stamped service book. Am I naive to think it has already been done and I shouldn't worry? I'm still waiting on my V5 but I may be cheeky and contact the previous owner to see if they had it done(they may even be on here).

I've been skimming through this thread while in work so forgive me if I have missed anything. What parts would I  need to order from VW if I want peace of mind? I was quoted £47.20 from a local VW dealers parts dept for the tensioner alone.
http://shopdap.com/2-0t-vw-and-audi-tsi-timing-chain-tensioner-problems/

With 99k the chains probably stretched abit so a full kit including chain and guides as shown on the above link would be recommended.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Cosmokramer on 17 September 2017, 14:56
Hi all,

My 2009 mk6 GTI DSG just snapped its chain tensioner. The car had 81,000 miles on it and I did notice a small rattle on start up. But this was only for the precious 5 or so starts. I thought it was a bit strange but didn't think too much of it. Drove home from work and all ok. Next day it wouldn't start. Towed to VW where they diagnosed failed chain tensioner with the engine showing no compression. They wanted £1,600 to do more diagnostics before confirming final outcome. However, they said best case would be an additional £3-4k to repair or worst case replacement engine at a quoted £7k. The VW technician is pretty positive it would be the latter. VW also suggested trading in for between £3-4k. I won't be buying another VW. I did complain to VW UK and also the local dealership. They basically told me where I can shove it. A mechanic friend has said he can source and fit a second hand engine for around £2k. Somebody else has offered to buy the car as is for £4k. I think the car would be worth approx £8.5k if in working order. What do you guys think the best option is? I have lost faith with the car now and want rid of it and I am only interested in trying to salvage as much £ out of this situation as possible. If I had another engine fitted, would this create a paper trail and thus bring down the value of a potential sale anyway?
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: topher on 28 September 2017, 12:48
We have another CCZ engine available which has been overhauled with fresh genuine VW timing chains, guides and tensioner, new valves and the head stripped, cleaned and rebuilt. £2250 fitted including VAT comes with 6 months warranty.

Contact midlandvw@aol.com or 01543 495700
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: RocketRossUK on 19 October 2017, 14:09
Hi all,

I've searched for an answer to this particular question but can't seem to find it(unless I've scanned past it).  :smiley:

I have a July 2012 GTi with what appears to be the latest revision of the tensioner.  I check through the inspection hole on the timing chain housing.

My question being, if the revised part is fitted are they still likely to fail and has there been any cases of the new tensioner failing?

I'm just coming up to 52k and wondering if I should still get it changed.  Apart from a slight rattle on cold start up that lasts about a second, the car doesn't demonstrate any other symptoms.  My VW dealer says this is normal as it would last longer if the tensioner was the cause but it's still sits in my mind that it could be an early warning sign.

Any info or comments would be greatly appreciated.  :smiley:

Thanks

I personally think it should be changed every 3-4 years or when hearing daily rattles.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: joe6 on 26 October 2017, 15:25
Interesting article about timing chains and why they fail and preventative maintenance - frequent oil changes and disabling the stop-start?!!! http://pmmonline.co.uk/technical/timing-chain-tips/
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: seabrook132 on 06 December 2017, 11:59
Thought I'd reply to this post so people have a bit of an update on prices etc.

I just picked my car up from LVS AG near Lincoln after having the timing chain and tensioner replaced with the latest revisions as a preventative measure. Tensioner was still fine for me but I was having some noise at start up which I believe can be attributed to chain stretch. I checked measuring block 93 using VCDS and found that I was out of the spec suggested on some forums so booked it in to get replaced as soon as I could. For reference these are the topics I was referring to:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?7995554-Chain-Stretch-Limit (http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?7995554-Chain-Stretch-Limit)
https://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/432610-timing-chain-vcds-measurement/ (https://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/432610-timing-chain-vcds-measurement/).
I was seeing a value of -4.94 in block 93 before replacement. I'll update this post with my new value once I've had a chance to hook the car up.

Total cost for the work was £872.61. That includes 6.5 hours labour coming in at £468 and then the rest (£404.61) in parts which I will list:

06K 109 158 AD - Timing Chain - £61.08 + VAT
06K 109 467 K - Chain Tensioner - £40.09 + VAT
06H 109 469 AP - Rail (Chain Guide) - £7.75 + VAT
06H 109 509 Q - Rail (Chain Guide) - £12.24 + VAT
06H 109 469 T - Rail (Chain Guide) - £7.09 + VAT
06J 115 403 Q - Oil Filter - £13.24 + VAT
06H 103 483 D - Gasket - £11.58 + VAT
06L 103 085 B - Seal - £6.17 + VAT
D 174 003 M2 - Timing Cover Sealant - £32.90 + VAT
D 154 103 A1 - Sealant - £63.18 + VAT
06H 103 483 C - Gasket - £20.09 + VAT
06H 103 121 J - Gasket - £6.66 + VAT
WHT 007 212 B - Seal Ring - £3.02 + VAT
06H 109 257 C - Camshaft Control Valve - £40.89 + VAT
1K0 201 160 BG - Breather Pipe - £11.18 + VAT

Car feels much better for having had the work done, quiet start up, seems like it picks up better and of course the peace of mind that it's done!
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: joe6 on 06 December 2017, 18:37
That's a very useful post Seabrook132 particularly the links and part numbers. Notice you did not replace the timing gears with the chains. Presumably they were not worn? I noticed that quite a few kits in the USA come with timing gears in the package.

I am on 67k and although no apparent rattles was wondering about needing to do this shortly. Being able to use VCDS to check is great.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: seabrook132 on 06 December 2017, 23:58
I used the chain replacement kit listed on Deutsche Auto Parts as a rough guide to what I should expect to be replaced and they do not include timing gears in their kit. I asked LVS to check for any other worn parts that might need replacing while there was access to them so I can only assume that the gears themselves were fine to be reused.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: joe6 on 07 December 2017, 19:51
I used the chain replacement kit listed on Deutsche Auto Parts as a rough guide to what I should expect to be replaced and they do not include timing gears in their kit. I asked LVS to check for any other worn parts that might need replacing while there was access to them so I can only assume that the gears themselves were fine to be reused.

Thanks for the info. Interested in your new block 93 values when you get them. Will be taking mine over the week end. I am based near Lincoln so it was also of interested where you took your car.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: seabrook132 on 09 December 2017, 09:01
Checked block 93 this morning and I’m now reading -1.36 with the new chain on, so back in to the good zone according to the briskoda thread. Remember to check the value at idle when the engine is fully warm.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: joe6 on 09 December 2017, 16:49
Fantastic reading. New chain has worked well. Would be really pleased with that value. Thanks for the reminder about warm engine. Been struck down with manflu  :sick: so the test will have to wait a bit.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: joe6 on 18 December 2017, 12:37
Checked block 93 this morning and I’m now reading -1.36 with the new chain on, so back in to the good zone according to the briskoda thread. Remember to check the value at idle when the engine is fully warm.

Finally got out today to go shopping and did the VCDS check at the same time. Block 93 value is -1.78 at idle with a warm engine (90 degrees C) and revs 760rpm. Seems I am OK at present but might get the tensioner visually checked out through the inspection hole to see how many teeth are showing at the next service.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: seabrook132 on 18 December 2017, 12:43
Checked block 93 this morning and I’m now reading -1.36 with the new chain on, so back in to the good zone according to the briskoda thread. Remember to check the value at idle when the engine is fully warm.

Finally got out today to go shopping and did the VCDS check at the same time. Block 93 value is -1.78 at idle with a warm engine (90 degrees C) and revs 760rpm. Seems I am OK at present but might get the tensioner visually checked out through the inspection hole to see how many teeth are showing at the next service.

Sweet, looks like a healthy chain then. Deffo worth the physical inspection through the hole to check the tensioner extension and revision. Block 93 is only an indicator of chain wear as far as I understand it, it won't help in checking for possible tensioner issues.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: joe6 on 18 December 2017, 12:53
Yes pleased with the figures. Thanks for the heads up on the tensioner Seabrook132. Not long to the service so will get the tensioner checked out then. Might replace it for peace of mind because I think mine is the original.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: BlinGTIes on 02 January 2018, 00:12
So i think it has finally happened to me :(

Got the rattle on startup and sounds like a diesel engine. Had RAC out and they plugged cpu and got can’t remember the exact codes but guy said the time is off which might suggest problem with the timing chain.

Weird thing is a lot of people noticed the problem for the first time when starting their cars. I was on the M1, dropping down to 4th and then when I put my foot down there was no power. Still managed to drive but nowhere near the acceleration. Only when I got home I noticed the engine sounded like a tractor.

Going to book it in with VW tomorrow. Does anyone have any advice on how I should approach them? I bought it from this dealer two years ago and have had a few issues with it already. Engine still started so I’m guessing it’s not a total rebuild? Hoping it’s not as bad as that!

Thanks

Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: mikegti77 on 02 January 2018, 09:55
So i think it has finally happened to me :(

Got the rattle on startup and sounds like a diesel engine. Had RAC out and they plugged cpu and got can’t remember the exact codes but guy said the time is off which might suggest problem with the timing chain.

Weird thing is a lot of people noticed the problem for the first time when starting their cars. I was on the M1, dropping down to 4th and then when I put my foot down there was no power. Still managed to drive but nowhere near the acceleration. Only when I got home I noticed the engine sounded like a tractor.

Going to book it in with VW tomorrow. Does anyone have any advice on how I should approach them? I bought it from this dealer two years ago and have had a few issues with it already. Engine still started so I’m guessing it’s not a total rebuild? Hoping it’s not as bad as that!

Thanks

Check out page 56 on this thread, your symptoms sound very similar to mine a few years ago. My chain had stretched, required a new chain (revised part), tensioner  (revised part), guides  etc etc.  Also see page 14 for my previous tensioner problem a few years earlier with part numbers etc.

Good luck

Mike
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: BlinGTIes on 03 January 2018, 22:02
So i think it has finally happened to me :(

Got the rattle on startup and sounds like a diesel engine. Had RAC out and they plugged cpu and got can’t remember the exact codes but guy said the time is off which might suggest problem with the timing chain.

Weird thing is a lot of people noticed the problem for the first time when starting their cars. I was on the M1, dropping down to 4th and then when I put my foot down there was no power. Still managed to drive but nowhere near the acceleration. Only when I got home I noticed the engine sounded like a tractor.

Going to book it in with VW tomorrow. Does anyone have any advice on how I should approach them? I bought it from this dealer two years ago and have had a few issues with it already. Engine still started so I’m guessing it’s not a total rebuild? Hoping it’s not as bad as that!

Thanks

Check out page 56 on this thread, your symptoms sound very similar to mine a few years ago. My chain had stretched, required a new chain (revised part), tensioner  (revised part), guides  etc etc.  Also see page 14 for my previous tensioner problem a few years earlier with part numbers etc.

Good luck

Mike

Thanks Mike, vw mechanic looked at it today and confirmed stretched chain and the tensioner has gone - just like yours. Going to give me a quote in the morning of the work but already know labour is £140 per hour!!! Said need to check if anything else was damaged. I just want to get rid now, very bad experience of buying a used VW
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: BlinGTIes on 04 January 2018, 08:12
Also, if the tensioner has gone and the chain has stretched, would it be normal for the mechanic to want to check the piston heads and change the oil in case it got contaminated? VW are going to charge me for that too :(

I’m no mechanic but they should be closed systems so how could stuff get in there?

Thanks!
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: mikegti77 on 04 January 2018, 08:32
Also, if the tensioner has gone and the chain has stretched, would it be normal for the mechanic to want to check the piston heads and change the oil in case it got contaminated? VW are going to charge me for that too :(

I’m no mechanic but they should be closed systems so how could stuff get in there?

Thanks!

I think the oil would need to be changed as the engine has to 'tilted' in the engine bay (engine mount removed) to gain access to the timing chain side cover (which is metal and sealed), so some oil will be lost when the cover is removed. In my case I also had a problem with the cam pressure release valve (cant remember the exact item), so this needed changing also and there was the chance of metal particles had got into the oil from this item.  I had new oil and filter when my chain and tensioner were changed, I think it is good practise to change the oil for a few quid extra.

Your pistons should be fine if the timing is only out, and the chain not actually broken. But I guess they are checking all basis's and a bit of health check.

I felt the same at the time as you regarding VW and MK6 GTI, but they are great cars. I traded mine about 9 months later due to it needing more money spending on it (rear caliper seized, 2 x front tyres, service etc), but I ended up buying another GTI, this time MK7. GTI is great car so hard to look past, I took a punt on the MK7 GTI as it runs the gen 3 version of the 2.0 TSI, the MK6 is gen 1 version.  My thinking is hopefully by 3 generations VW have the basics sorted - hope I'm right!

Hope it gets sorted soon, let us know how it goes.

Mike
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: BlinGTIes on 04 January 2018, 20:55
Update

Got a quote for the work from Lancaster VW in Milton Keynes, £1050 for parts and 12 hrs labour costing £1750 so total of £2,800. Customer services girl from retailer had no idea what she was talking about and so wishy washy it was unreal.

Work to replace tensioner, chain, other ‘bits’, change oil and check pistons. When asked what other bits are and could I have a breakdown of cost she said no, internal use only.

She also said they could get the work done for £1,400 if I pay for service which is due in couple weeks and then she would ‘ask’ VW if they would contribute out of goodwill it get it down to £1400. So no garuantee, wanted me to pay £330 for service and authorize the work for £2,800 and only then would she try to see what they would do. Shocking. Bad enough car has failed but now feels like they are trying to rip me off. I called VW and raised a case so waiting to hear back.

However got a quote from an indie of £600 to change tensioner, chains (there’s two apparently, big and small) and guides. Even if they do spot anything else it’ll be a damn sight cheaper than Lancaster VW MK. Decision made really.

I’ve just ordered a MK 7.5 GTI on lease.  Just looking to fix the MK 6 then get rid as soon as I can now after all this.



Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: mikegti77 on 05 January 2018, 08:46
Update

Got a quote for the work from Lancaster VW in Milton Keynes, £1050 for parts and 12 hrs labour costing £1750 so total of £2,800. Customer services girl from retailer had no idea what she was talking about and so wishy washy it was unreal.

Work to replace tensioner, chain, other ‘bits’, change oil and check pistons. When asked what other bits are and could I have a breakdown of cost she said no, internal use only.

She also said they could get the work done for £1,400 if I pay for service which is due in couple weeks and then she would ‘ask’ VW if they would contribute out of goodwill it get it down to £1400. So no garuantee, wanted me to pay £330 for service and authorize the work for £2,800 and only then would she try to see what they would do. Shocking. Bad enough car has failed but now feels like they are trying to rip me off. I called VW and raised a case so waiting to hear back.

However got a quote from an indie of £600 to change tensioner, chains (there’s two apparently, big and small) and guides. Even if they do spot anything else it’ll be a damn sight cheaper than Lancaster VW MK. Decision made really.

I’ve just ordered a MK 7.5 GTI on lease.  Just looking to fix the MK 6 then get rid as soon as I can now after all this.

Keep pushing with VW customer services, they will likely play hardball, but if the car has full main dealer history you may get something.  I am surprised at the total cost, another member (Hardwell I think) on page 56 of this thread paid £1390 at a main dealer (which fits in with your possible £1,400 goodwill), that was a few years ago and I'm not sure of the level of goodwill he received.  Also check out page 1 of this thread, it has a summary of what other members paid for their engine repairs, this could be a good guide for you.  Your £600 at an indie sounds about right.

The MK7 / MK7.5 is a great car.  It is always a catch 22 when spending big money on a car repair, repair it and keep it and hope nothing else big goes wrong, or move it on and the next owner gets the benefit of your repair.

Fingers crossed for you.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: mikegti77 on 05 January 2018, 08:52
Update

Got a quote for the work from Lancaster VW in Milton Keynes, £1050 for parts and 12 hrs labour costing £1750 so total of £2,800. Customer services girl from retailer had no idea what she was talking about and so wishy washy it was unreal.

Work to replace tensioner, chain, other ‘bits’, change oil and check pistons. When asked what other bits are and could I have a breakdown of cost she said no, internal use only.

She also said they could get the work done for £1,400 if I pay for service which is due in couple weeks and then she would ‘ask’ VW if they would contribute out of goodwill it get it down to £1400. So no garuantee, wanted me to pay £330 for service and authorize the work for £2,800 and only then would she try to see what they would do. Shocking. Bad enough car has failed but now feels like they are trying to rip me off. I called VW and raised a case so waiting to hear back.

However got a quote from an indie of £600 to change tensioner, chains (there’s two apparently, big and small) and guides. Even if they do spot anything else it’ll be a damn sight cheaper than Lancaster VW MK. Decision made really.

I’ve just ordered a MK 7.5 GTI on lease.  Just looking to fix the MK 6 then get rid as soon as I can now after all this.

Keep pushing with VW customer services, they will likely play hardball, but if the car has full main dealer history you may get something.  I am surprised at the total cost, another member (Hardwell I think) on page 56 of this thread paid £1390 at a main dealer (which fits in with your possible £1,400 goodwill offer), that was a few years ago and I'm not sure of the level of goodwill he received.  Also check out page 1 of this thread, it has a summary of what other members paid for their engine repairs, this could be a good guide for you.  Your £600 at an indie sounds about right.

The MK7 / MK7.5 is a great car.  It is always a catch 22 when spending big money on a car repair, repair it and keep it and hope nothing else big goes wrong, or move it on and the next owner gets the benefit of your repair.

Fingers crossed for you.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: BlinGTIes on 09 January 2018, 23:12
Hi guys,

Another update. VW aren’t prepared to contribute anything to the cost of my repairs. The VW dealer is prepared to contribute 50% to the total of £2,600, so I would pay £1,300 after their goodwill. I just wanted to ask for something advice and if you think I should go for it. I managed to get a breakdown of the work.

The parts are £900 inc VAT. Biggest cost being a ‘repset’ costing £200, any ideas what this is? Apart from the chains, tensioners and rails, there’s also a few gaskets and sealants which cost a few bob. Is this normal to need to replace these when changing the chain and tensioner?

The work they say their going to do is ‘carry out compression test, remove cylinder head, check valve seats, piston pertrusion replace camshaft drive chain, tensioners and guides, carry out final check’. Apparently it is 12 hrs labour. Is this work necessary? Chain has stretched but not snapped. But sounds like they want to take apart the engine which explains the gaskets. Indie I spoke to said it sounds a bit OTT and quoted me about £600 to change chains, tensioners and guides.  Im looking to get it running so I can sell on, is it worth spending the extra money to take the engine apart to check the other components?


Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: mikegti77 on 10 January 2018, 09:11
Hi guys,

Another update. VW aren’t prepared to contribute anything to the cost of my repairs. The VW dealer is prepared to contribute 50% to the total of £2,600, so I would pay £1,300 after their goodwill. I just wanted to ask for something advice and if you think I should go for it. I managed to get a breakdown of the work.

The parts are £900 inc VAT. Biggest cost being a ‘repset’ costing £200, any ideas what this is? Apart from the chains, tensioners and rails, there’s also a few gaskets and sealants which cost a few bob. Is this normal to need to replace these when changing the chain and tensioner?

The work they say their going to do is ‘carry out compression test, remove cylinder head, check valve seats, piston pertrusion replace camshaft drive chain, tensioners and guides, carry out final check’. Apparently it is 12 hrs labour. Is this work necessary? Chain has stretched but not snapped. But sounds like they want to take apart the engine which explains the gaskets. Indie I spoke to said it sounds a bit OTT and quoted me about £600 to change chains, tensioners and guides.  Im looking to get it running so I can sell on, is it worth spending the extra money to take the engine apart to check the other components?

Difficult one regarding the cost as it is your money / car etc.  But it's £1,300 at VW main dealer, £600 at indie.  Given you already come this far with the main dealer (as in labour costs for investigation work), if you took the car away now to be repaired at an indie, would you not be hit with some labour costs at the main dealer?, plus the cost of transporting the car to the indie garage.  In other words, the difference would no longer be £700, but potentially a lot less.

I also believe that all work completed at VW main dealers comes with 2 year warranty on parts and labour. Work at your indie will come with a 2 year warranty on parts only, at least that was the case with my indie.  Perhaps not important to you, but if you are selling the car any potential buyer having done their home work will be asking about timing chain and if has been changed etc, a VW main dealer warranty backed chain replacement with an invoice will help the sale I would think.

The parts sound a little expensive and 12 hours labour does sound a lot, however, I don't know the full breakdown of components being changed (it does sound over and above the usual chain, tensioner, guides and chain cover which is what your inide will be quoting for), i would concentrate on the total cost and if you are happy rather than amount of labour etc.  No idea what 'repset' is, the gaskets and sealants again not totally sure, but i do know the timing chain cover for example uses a special sealant which is expensive - again my parts listing is on or around page 14 on this thread.   If gaskets are mentioned, this will be due to the cylinder head being removed.

It sounds like you are slowly getting this sorted, and the dealer has done the right thing by dropping the price to a similar level seen on this thread.  Not my money, but if you are wanting my opinion... Let the dealer do the work, you know the cost now (be clear with them you will not pay any more than the £1,300 quoted), it will be fully warranted work and less hassle overall than trailering the car to the indie, and essentially starting over again with work.  Also potentially the bill may raise from the indie if other problems are found.  Then you need to pay VW for the time already spend with the car.

Let us know what you decide and when you get the car back.

Mike
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: BlinGTIes on 10 January 2018, 21:51
Hi Mike,

Thanks for your advice and support through this ordeal! 

Essentially, the difference in price now comes down to the extra work VW want to do to take the engine apart to check the pistons and valves and then use new parts to put it back together. However, if they do find any other problems I’m not sure there will be any goodwill towards those costs.

The cost of towing the car to the indie is minimal, just £30 as its only a few miles away. I have also used this indie before last year to change the engine manifold, they specialize in VW group motors and I trust them. I took the car to VW hoping they would do the lot for free!  On balance, I think I’d rather pay the £600 quoted by the indie and if they find any other issues it shouldn’t be any more than what VW are asking.  Good point on the warranty but I’m going to sell on webuyanycar, do you think it would matter there?

Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: mikegti77 on 11 January 2018, 08:33
Hi Mike,

Thanks for your advice and support through this ordeal! 

Essentially, the difference in price now comes down to the extra work VW want to do to take the engine apart to check the pistons and valves and then use new parts to put it back together. However, if they do find any other problems I’m not sure there will be any goodwill towards those costs.

The cost of towing the car to the indie is minimal, just £30 as its only a few miles away. I have also used this indie before last year to change the engine manifold, they specialize in VW group motors and I trust them. I took the car to VW hoping they would do the lot for free!  On balance, I think I’d rather pay the £600 quoted by the indie and if they find any other issues it shouldn’t be any more than what VW are asking.  Good point on the warranty but I’m going to sell on webuyanycar, do you think it would matter there?

I understand, you have to do what you are comfortable with.  I have a trusted local indie also, and I must admit I would trust them more than my main dealer, and my main dealer is a pretty decent one.

Let us know how it all pans out, hopefully the VW dealer will not want too much for the work already undertaken.  If you are selling through we buy any car they will not be bothered about the chain replacement, just don't even mention it to them.  They just sell it on through the trade, so things like condition, mileage, service history and any damage to paintwork / alloys is more important to them.

Good luck
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: BlinGTIes on 11 January 2018, 09:55
Thanks Mike, I’m hoping it’s just the standard £72 VW will charge me for the diagnosis!

Will let you know how I get on.

Thanks
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: BlinGTIes on 20 January 2018, 00:30
Hi all,

It’s been a while so posting an update. Got my car towed to the indie specialist who unfortunately only got round to working on it today. All seemed to be going ok, replaced tensioner, guides and chain but when they started the engine it would cut out after a few seconds, like an immobiliser kicking in. After a few attempts it got running but they said they could hear a rattle - maybe the same as the one people have heard on here. Seems strange as they have changed everything.

Now they need to investigate further and maybe take the head off to check pistons and valves. Could that be making the rattle? Any ideas guys? I was so hoping it would be straight forward.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: mikegti77 on 22 January 2018, 08:42
Hi all,

It’s been a while so posting an update. Got my car towed to the indie specialist who unfortunately only got round to working on it today. All seemed to be going ok, replaced tensioner, guides and chain but when they started the engine it would cut out after a few seconds, like an immobiliser kicking in. After a few attempts it got running but they said they could hear a rattle - maybe the same as the one people have heard on here. Seems strange as they have changed everything.

Now they need to investigate further and maybe take the head off to check pistons and valves. Could that be making the rattle? Any ideas guys? I was so hoping it would be straight forward.

Difficult to say, it goes sound like there is something else wrong, maybe this is why the VW main dealer wanted to investigate further (hence their price). I think you have no option but to get it sorted and let the indie investigate further.  Hopefully it is nothing too serious or expensive.

Let us know how it goes, good luck!
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: mikegti77 on 10 April 2018, 16:27
Hi all,

It’s been a while so posting an update. Got my car towed to the indie specialist who unfortunately only got round to working on it today. All seemed to be going ok, replaced tensioner, guides and chain but when they started the engine it would cut out after a few seconds, like an immobiliser kicking in. After a few attempts it got running but they said they could hear a rattle - maybe the same as the one people have heard on here. Seems strange as they have changed everything.

Now they need to investigate further and maybe take the head off to check pistons and valves. Could that be making the rattle? Any ideas guys? I was so hoping it would be straight forward.

Difficult to say, it goes sound like there is something else wrong, maybe this is why the VW main dealer wanted to investigate further (hence their price). I think you have no option but to get it sorted and let the indie investigate further.  Hopefully it is nothing too serious or expensive.

Let us know how it goes, good luck!

How did it all turn out with your MK6 BlinGTIes, I notice you are now a happy MK7.5 owner!   :smiley:
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Henk155 on 30 April 2018, 18:33
I am going to look at a 2009 golf gti as well this week.
But what really suprise me from a model that had a reputation with the chain tensioner that these cars still quite expensive.

Henk.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Jimmgc51 on 17 May 2018, 11:54
Tbf though mine is up for sale now and is a 2009 but the engine is replaced so this issue should be of no concern to the new owner and so should not affect the value of the car.

I persoanlly wouldn't touch one though that either hasn't had a new engine or revised tensioner fitted with all documentation proving that to be the case
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: lg1234 on 02 July 2018, 18:08
I'm going to look at a 2009 Mk6 GTI at the weekend, it had the chain and tensioner done at 60k and its now at 85k. Once that work was done it should be ok? Or worst case scenario the chain will stretch and need to be done again in future? if the work has been done I presume the tensioner shouldn't fail, resulting in me needing a new engine? (that's my main concern, I can deal with a stretched chain over the next few years)

Or maybe I should just avoid altogether and get an ST  :undecided:
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Jimmgc51 on 02 July 2018, 19:28
It will be fine, no failures on engines post 2010/2011. Updated tensioner fixed it so should not need to worry about it. Just make sure all the paperwork is in order.

Also my 09 is still for sale so if your still looking after this one take a look in the classifieds, price has been dropped again!
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: jord91 on 30 July 2018, 19:33
well had the dreaded tensioner issue 2011 gti with 86k miles
luckily i caught it in time for it not to do any damage to engine its just slack so will be changed  :cry: :cry:
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: david25 on 31 July 2018, 18:22
What were the symptoms please?
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: jord91 on 01 August 2018, 21:06
well i got a engine fault light coming on and off but car felt normal

i could hear something from the engine like a slight rattle/vibration sort of noise
managed to get home ok and the next day on cold start up i could hear the chain rattle as i started the car
so listen out for that on cold starts

took to my garage and they did there bits and told me to chain is starting to become slack and is out of timing by a small amount so £800 to fix  :cry: hopefully get the car back by end of the week
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: david25 on 12 August 2018, 09:07
Thanks could you post the exact date of your car, I've also got a 2011 model and thought these were OK.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: jord91 on 12 August 2018, 18:47
march 2011 basically with the mileage at 86k my garage said its usually about right they usually changed around this type of mileage anyway
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: roblyt on 23 September 2018, 17:56
add mine to that list
just went yesterday :sad:
2009, 56k miles,fsh
dont know the full extent of the damage yet but AA man who recovered said it dont look good at all

Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: jamie_b52 on 27 November 2018, 13:05
West Sussex. failed @ 60,020 on a 2010 plate.  serviced yearly, failed with no warning upon cold start. Purchased the car 3 months ago, attempting to recover cost from supplying dealer. awaiting diagnostic from independent specialist to gauge extent of damage.
will update with verdict.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Nitrou76 on 29 November 2018, 14:19
Hi guys

I'm new to this forum as I've just bought a 60 (Sept) plate GTI DSG.  Always wanted a GTI since my brothers Very hot MK1 in the early 90's.  Only had this a few days now and got to reading forums and found this.

I see a lot of mention in the pages about 09/59/10 plate cars having this issue and not so much anything above. Is anybody aware of any 60 plates having failed?  I'll be completely honest, I didn't read all the pages entirely but scanned through the majority of them.

Nice to see a place where guys stick together  :smiley:

Thanks in advance
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: joe6 on 29 November 2018, 17:11
Hi guys

I'm new to this forum as I've just bought a 60 (Sept) plate GTI DSG.  Always wanted a GTI since my brothers Very hot MK1 in the early 90's.  Only had this a few days now and got to reading forums and found this.

I see a lot of mention in the pages about 09/59/10 plate cars having this issue and not so much anything above. Is anybody aware of any 60 plates having failed?  I'll be completely honest, I didn't read all the pages entirely but scanned through the majority of them.

Nice to see a place where guys stick together  :smiley:

Thanks in advance

Hi Nitrou76

Welcome to the forum. Hope you are enjoying the car. I love mine. There were 3 versions of the tensioner that VW produced to try to solve the problem. Cars up to 2011 can suffer from tensioner failure so that includes 60 plate cars that I believe were fitted with version 2 of the tensioner and also timing chain stretch. VW do not have accurate records of when the changes were made. It is possible to check both. There is an inspection plug in the timing chain casing that can be removed to check how far the tensioner has extended - there are a number of teeth on a ratchet and as the tensioner wears they protrude further out of the casing. However, getting to the plug is near impossible and when removed needs a mirror to see the tensioner. A new plug is required after inspection. The chain stretch can be checked using VCDS (engine diagnostic software). From 2011 VW produced a stronger version of the timing chains. To change tensioner and timing chains and associated chain guides costs about £900 at an independent garage. Replacement parts will have the latest versions of tensioner and chains. If the car has done a large mileage then as a minimum I would get it checked out. There a photos/videos on the net that show how to go about the checks. Seat and Skoda suffered the same problems with this version of the engine. Symptoms of potential failure are a rattle at the timing chain side of the engine but not to be confused with injector noise - these engines are quite noisy when you have the bonnet open.

I have not had a problem with my 10 plate GTI but had the tensioner checked at the last service (75K miles)and check the timing myself with VCDS a couple of times a year. Had the car from new and do frequent oil and filter changes, don't put pedal to metal until the engine oil is up to operating temperature. Hope that is helpful.

PS. If you have the car service record then you should be able to check work done. Some cars had replacement engines under warranty and any VW dealer will be able to look up their service records of work done if you have the reg number and vin.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Nitrou76 on 29 November 2018, 19:44
Thanks for the reply mate very useful. I checked the service book and the timing chain always has “no” ticked. I see the car was last serviced in May. I may just get the local VW independent here to change it with the next service. After reading this forum today I went out, opened up the bonnet and started it, didn’t hear any roughness and just purred from the start. Mileage is in 60k

Yeah I’m loving the car, it’s an absolute joy to drive, I’ve driven many turbo cars over the years but this car just makes me smile from ear to ear every time.

Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Nitrou76 on 29 November 2018, 19:49
By the way, what VCDS do you use? I’ve been doing some reading on that Carista device. Might get one? I’ll search the forums and check if the guys here use them.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: joe6 on 01 December 2018, 18:25
By the way, what VCDS do you use? I’ve been doing some reading on that Carista device. Might get one? I’ll search the forums and check if the guys here use them.

I have the Ross Tech version. I have had a few VWs and my daughter has a SEAT so I bit the bullet and got one. I have also used the OBDeleven PRO and that seems quite good for diagnostics and making some changes but does not have the same in depth capability of Ross Tech. Quite a few guys on the Polo and SEAT forums use the OBD and are pleased with results.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Arr0nUK on 12 December 2018, 21:22
I've been quoted £635 to get the chain, tensioner and followers ect done.
Currently on 72k 2009 GTI with the everyday stress of turning the key  :laugh:
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: whiter_than_white on 03 February 2019, 13:45
Ok, having tried to start my 59 plate gti on Tuesday morning to no avail, I have just confirmed that there is no compression 😭
I am guessing chain tensioner as they are so common and had no issues with car up until this point.
As a mechanic and capable of stripping and rebuilding the engine I was wondering if anyone has done this? Is it possible or is it scrap? I ask because reading thru this post, all the warranty ones were new engine, no rebuild?? Thanks
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Snoopy on 03 February 2019, 17:42
It all depends what has happened and bent / damaged. It may only need valve and head work but may need more. Pulling the head would be imo the first task to investigate.

Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: joe6 on 03 February 2019, 19:45
I agree with snoopy. Head off first. It was cheaper to replace engines under warranty than mess about with rebuilds. From what I have read most of those with damage have got away with valve and head work. There are some videos on U-tube about engine rebuilds etc.
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=golf+mk6+GTI+engine+rebuild&view=detail&mid=4530712C190B7A75D4DF4530712C190B7A75D4DF&FORM=VIRE
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: whiter_than_white on 04 February 2019, 23:59
Having watched a few videos and a bit of my own knowledge I am going to pull the head over the weekend. I have already decided that if it's coming off it's having 16 new valves. I've priced chain parts thru tos with a new chain cover, going to get gaskets etc thru a local factors to try and cut some costs.
Just a couple of questions for those who have done them, there are 3 chains but nobody replaces oil pump chain? Does it need doing or is there no stress like the other 2?
Whilst head is off is there anything worth doing? Modification wise??
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: drokkeh on 05 February 2019, 14:02
HI All

Only just found out about this timing chain issue.  Put a deposit down on a Mk6 GTI 61 plate (50k mileage) yesterday.  Registered October 2011.

Not sure if the Timing chain/tensioner etc has ever been changed, havent looked at the service history yet.

Any advice on whether this age Mk6 might be ok etc etc?  Seeing conflicting reports as the when VW changed/revised this?

In simple terms if it has the latest/last version of the timing chain then its not likely to fail like the original?

Could negotiate the price down further to account for this work to be done if not.

Coming from a M4 Gti but this issue on the Mk6 looks catastrophic if not dealt with sensibly.


Thanks
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: SRGTD on 05 February 2019, 20:00
HI All

Only just found out about this timing chain issue.  Put a deposit down on a Mk6 GTI 61 plate (50k mileage) yesterday.  Registered October 2011.

Not sure if the Timing chain/tensioner etc has ever been changed, havent looked at the service history yet.

Any advice on whether this age Mk6 might be ok etc etc?  Seeing conflicting reports as the when VW changed/revised this?

In simple terms if it has the latest/last version of the timing chain then its not likely to fail like the original?

Could negotiate the price down further to account for this work to be done if not.

Coming from a M4 Gti but this issue on the Mk6 looks catastrophic if not dealt with sensibly.


Thanks

Hi drokkeh,

Post #4 (at the bottom) gives details of the dates that the revised tensioners were introduced. If the car you’re getting hasn’t had the tensioner changed, then it won’t have the latest version (May 2012).
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: drokkeh on 06 February 2019, 10:27

Hi drokkeh,

Post #4 (at the bottom) gives details of the dates that the revised tensioners were introduced. If the car you’re getting hasn’t had the tensioner changed, then it won’t have the latest version (May 2012).



Hi.  Ok.  Thanks for this.  So in simple terms if you have the May 2012 part (3rd and last revision) all is good?  Regardless whether it is factory fitted or retro fitted by dealer/VW specialist.

This is all I need to know really.

I know its hard to say 'yes, if you have the latest revision, the issue will NOT happen'  - But its much less likely i guess?

Just want to put my mind at rest for the sake of £300 - £400 replacement early on.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: joe6 on 06 February 2019, 15:04
Not sure what your mileage is? If over 75k then worth checking the timing chain and guides if replacing the tensioner as labour costs not much more, mainly parts costs. See #608 in this thread for method of checking timing chain stretch - uses VCDS and measuring block 93 and potential costs for doing the lot.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: drokkeh on 06 February 2019, 18:13
Not sure what your mileage is? If over 75k then worth checking the timing chain and guides if replacing the tensioner as labour costs not much more, mainly parts costs. See #608 in this thread for method of checking timing chain stretch - uses VCDS and measuring block 93 and potential costs for doing the lot.

Thanks.  The car I am buying is a 61 plate.  Mileage 50k.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: DanielPT on 23 February 2019, 14:07
I am also onto this.. Looking to buy a Mk6 GTi, seen a couple of units and kinda falling for a 04/2010 one.

Now.. if i buy it and replace the chain/guide/tensioner, the chance of faillure disappears? Is it just change the parts and pedal to the metal?
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: drokkeh on 25 February 2019, 14:19
Could anyone recommend an independant VW specialist in Cheshire that could check/change the tensioner/chain assembly?

Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: jam_up on 10 March 2019, 18:07
Hi guys,

I have a 2011 mk6 GTI DSG (built March) and deliberating if it’s worth extending warranty with VW which is running out in April. Bought it with 30k on the clock and now at 90k, averaging 20k p/a (job change after I bought it!) and it’s not missed a heart beat. It has the first timing chain revision but nothing after according to the dealer. Warranty is £650-£800 for 12 months depending on excess (£250/£100) and I probably won’t keep it beyond that period.

Is it worth going without (how much will it cost if the chain goes?) or should I get it? It’s in very good nick and I’ve kept with full VW history. I do around 400 miles a week most of which is motorway/A roads. Alternative is to get the chain replaced now?

Cheers
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: joe6 on 12 March 2019, 16:39
Hi guys,

I have a 2011 mk6 GTI DSG (built March) and deliberating if it’s worth extending warranty with VW which is running out in April. Bought it with 30k on the clock and now at 90k, averaging 20k p/a (job change after I bought it!) and it’s not missed a heart beat. It has the first timing chain revision but nothing after according to the dealer. Warranty is £650-£800 for 12 months depending on excess (£250/£100) and I probably won’t keep it beyond that period.

Is it worth going without (how much will it cost if the chain goes?) or should I get it? It’s in very good nick and I’ve kept with full VW history. I do around 400 miles a week most of which is motorway/A roads. Alternative is to get the chain replaced now?

Cheers

These may help you to make your mind up. Repairs for a failed tensioner or chain start at about £2500
http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=262793.msg2580592#msg2580592
http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=262793.msg2597735#msg2597735
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: jam_up on 18 March 2019, 12:51
These may help you to make your mind up. Repairs for a failed tensioner or chain start at about £2500
http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=262793.msg2580592#msg2580592
http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=262793.msg2597735#msg2597735
Thanks for the links.

I’ll certainly have to do something then. Quite frustrating as I was waiting for the mk8 but the risk is too high leaving it as is.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: joe6 on 19 March 2019, 13:12
I was having a similar quandary a while ago. Checked the chain stretch using VCDS found out from a couple of posts here and now do that regularly and that is fine at present. Got the tensioner checked at the last service through the inspection hole - almost impossible to get at the inspection hole as a DIY job.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: jam_up on 01 April 2019, 14:35
Got a few quotes for a new chain and tensioner:

Main dealer: £1200
Independent VW #1: £500
Independent VW #2: £1100

I feel #1 didn’t tot up all the parts and suggested just 3 hrs for labour?? 2nd chap appeared he knew what he was talking about (aware of the issue) and had done a few recently. He said it should be fine with regular oil and filter changes for the time being but to get it looked at soon as any rattling appears upon startup.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: joe6 on 01 April 2019, 18:29
The #2 seems to be a realistic price. I think my regular oil and filter changes (every 6 months or 5000miles since new) have helped keep the engine sweet. Had to change the intake manifold (again a recognised fault on early MK6) after about 4 years and the quoted labour time was 1.5 hours. Did it myself and took a whole day!!
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: mrjp on 09 June 2019, 11:40
Howdy,

So I'm pretty sure my chain has gone, based on the symptoms associated with the issue - engine misfiring on a trip and then subsequently starting with the world's lumpiest idle before cutting out. Anyone have a ballpark for how much I'm going to be looking at for getting the engine repaired / replaced? It's a 2010 Mk6, 70k on the clock. Bit of reading suggests anywhere from 2k-9k... car's only worth about £5k so it's going to the scrappy if it's far from the bottom end.

Cheers!
James
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: joe6 on 09 June 2019, 21:24
Might be worth talking to roblyt. He has the same problem.

http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=285135.0
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: mrjp on 10 June 2019, 09:33
Cheers, had a quote back for £2.5k for fitting a recon engine with 12 month warranty, so at least I know that's as big a kick in the nuts as it can be... he says, foolishly.

Also, for anyone wondering - Autohaus in Edinburgh have quoted me £118 for a couple of hours work to strip the engine down to inspect the damage, which seemed pretty reasonable.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: bobbarley on 15 June 2019, 22:09
Thank god you guys have this post stickied. I just started looking at cheaper mk6 Golf GTI's, around 59/60 plate, and had no idea this problem even existed! I can't imagine most cars being sold second hand are going to have much evidence to back up the parts ever being replaced. Sounds like it's best to budget up to £1000 to get it all replaced as a preventative measure?
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Snoopy on 16 June 2019, 17:41
When looking at a car also look at the sticker on top of the engine. It states the date of build. Some have had replacement engines under warranty.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Arr0nUK on 26 June 2019, 14:17
So the dreaded timing chain failure has got me (tbc)...

2009 Mk6 GTi 77k

Thursday last week. Car would start in the morning. Was just turning over. No vibrations or noises. Had the AA out who tried starting it then it stopped turning over. Now won’t crank at all.

Garage say they can see damage to the value and piston in Cylinder 1. Everything else looks ok. Head coming off later today.

How did people approach VW? I know I don’t stand much of a chance with 77k miles however I am god dam going to try.

Did you call them or email them?

Also would turning over the engine cause valve damage? As I tried to start it and so did the AA guy a few times. The engine hasn’t ran since it was fine the night before.

Any ideas?
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: mrjp on 05 July 2019, 17:02
Update on mine (2010 GTi, 71k):

Took it to a local specialist in Edinburgh. Confirmed that the tensioner had failed, and that the timing had jumped six teeth. By some miracle, it hadn't done any serious damage (garage said this was the first in four tensioner failures they'd had that hadn't totalled the engine). It's still showing an Emissions / Engine Management light and throwing a fault code that they couldn't see a cause for (said they'd be happy to explore further, but it would be a lot more labour), but I've done a couple of hundred miles in it and it's running great. Total repair including parts and labour was about £950.

On the downside, my blower motor has since decided this was all far too much excitement and has ceased to function. Also got chastised for the sh!tty oil filter that I'd fitted.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: joe6 on 05 July 2019, 22:17
Update on mine (2010 GTi, 71k):

Took it to a local specialist in Edinburgh. Confirmed that the tensioner had failed, and that the timing had jumped six teeth. By some miracle, it hadn't done any serious damage (garage said this was the first in four tensioner failures they'd had that hadn't totalled the engine). It's still showing an Emissions / Engine Management light and throwing a fault code that they couldn't see a cause for (said they'd be happy to explore further, but it would be a lot more labour), but I've done a couple of hundred miles in it and it's running great. Total repair including parts and labour was about £950.

On the downside, my blower motor has since decided this was all far too much excitement and has ceased to function. Also got chastised for the sh!tty oil filter that I'd fitted.

Lucky the if only chains and tensioner! Always used good quality oil and VW filter every 6 months on mine. They must have some idea of the possible problem if they have a fault code?
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: mrjp on 07 July 2019, 19:53
Long and the short of it is that it's a P0016 error, but the timing is absolutely perfect (the garage checked it several times given the code being thrown). They flushed the engine and had the sump off to check for gunge / swarf, and there was *nothing*. This means it could be one of a few things, most likely the inlet camshaft variator, but it could also be something clogged / carbonised. Given it's running perfectly and the fact that the car's just eaten a grand's worth of my wedding budget, I'm not arsed about putting more into it right now.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: joe6 on 08 July 2019, 16:47
At least it is working without any symptoms. As you say could be a number of things. I have found it useful to use VCDS to check the timing tolerance when up to temperature at idle without having to dismantle anything. Could still be a number of different issue but does check tensioner and for chain stretch.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Arr0nUK on 09 July 2019, 23:17
>>> UPDATE <<<

So car has been to VW after it failed to start one morning.

They have checked the Timing Chain and Tensioner and it's all fine.

Still no idea why I have bend values and a crushed spark plug in Cylinder 1.

Any idea's?
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: topher on 10 July 2019, 20:54
maybe ingested the runner flap from the intake manifold?
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Arr0nUK on 10 July 2019, 22:02
maybe ingested the runner flap from the intake manifold?

That's a really good point it could well be that.

VW think something could of come through the inlet manifold hence only 1 cylinder having damage.

I am currently looking at options on a new engine / rebuilt one.  :cry:
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: mrjp on 15 July 2019, 19:48
Cheapest I found was a place in Glasgow called Engineered Engines, who quoted a refurb engine with a 12 month warranty for £2520, fitted, including VAT.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Arr0nUK on 19 July 2019, 23:41
If the tensioner fails and the chain jumps would it still be under tension? Or once the tensioner fails would it stay slack?
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Snoopy on 20 July 2019, 14:46
If the tensioner fails and the chain jumps would it still be under tension? Or once the tensioner fails would it stay slack?
I explained what happens on page 1  :wink:
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Arr0nUK on 20 July 2019, 16:33
If the tensioner fails and the chain jumps would it still be under tension? Or once the tensioner fails would it stay slack?
I explained what happens on page 1  :wink:

No what I mean is once the ratchet fails is that it broke or can it just fail to ratchet as a one off then go back to working again?

As VW said my chain was tight and the tensioner appeared to be working when they checked.

Unfortunately it’s still unexplained why I have value damage in one cylinder.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Snoopy on 21 July 2019, 08:14
If you look at the photos i posted on the first page you will see how the pin and teeth on the ratchet of the original ratchet design. Remember that everytime you turn the car off it falls back on the ratchet when oil pressure drops. It may simply be falling back on a tooth before or after the one it slipped on originally.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Arr0nUK on 21 July 2019, 10:01
If you look at the photos i posted on the first page you will see how the pin and teeth on the ratchet of the original ratchet design. Remember that everytime you turn the car off it falls back on the ratchet when oil pressure drops. It may simply be falling back on a tooth before or after the one it slipped on originally.

That's true. I think VW were just quick to try and get rid. They said the chain and tensioner were fine and if it was timing you would have damage in Cylinder 1 & 4 not just 1 Valve in Cylinder 1.

Part of me does not believe them but on the other hand it's probably a wasted argument with them. 77k 2009 car with part VW history does not give me much hope of any good will payment even if it was a tensioner.

Thanks for your help/quick replies btw  :smiley:
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: martin vr6 on 28 July 2019, 18:28
My 2011 car is going in on Thursday to have the chains checked. They appear to be noisier than
I would expect

I’m not looking forward to the outcome if I’m honest
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: david25 on 28 July 2019, 18:46
Whats the mileage please?
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: martin vr6 on 06 August 2019, 16:59
Got the news today, my chains have stretched and thus require replacement. Car is on 79k

I’m having everything done, all three chains, guides tensioner everything. No change out of £1100

Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: joe6 on 06 August 2019, 18:51
Got the news today, my chains have stretched and thus require replacement. Car is on 79k

I’m having everything done, all three chains, guides tensioner everything. No change out of £1100

Wise move. Peace of mind is important. Is that dealer price or indie?
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: martin vr6 on 08 August 2019, 22:43
Got the news today, my chains have stretched and thus require replacement. Car is on 79k

I’m having everything done, all three chains, guides tensioner everything. No change out of £1100

Wise move. Peace of mind is important. Is that dealer price or indie?

It was starting to sound like a 1. 2 Corsa with a dodgy chain so it was far from right.

It’s the dealer, but at staff rates, having a major service and Air Con done too so the bill will likely be in the £1500 ballpark
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: mikegti77 on 09 August 2019, 08:42
Got the news today, my chains have stretched and thus require replacement. Car is on 79k

I’m having everything done, all three chains, guides tensioner everything. No change out of £1100

I feel your pain, look at page 56 on this thread, stretched chains on mine at 79K miles, albeit mine was a 59 plate.

Pleased your getting it sorted, great cars GTI's - this issue aside.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: roblyt on 07 September 2019, 15:14
had mine back now
chain slipped at 56k, bent the valves and cracked a piston
had the engine fully rebuilt
new everything including mahle pistons + bearings,forged conrods and arp studs and bolts all round
cost around £5500 all in
shout out to BVR automotive in stoke for the rebuild

bit overkill on the spec i know but figured may as well while its out and being rebuilt and i wanted the car to keep its original engine

Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: david25 on 07 September 2019, 15:50
56,000 sounds low mileage, what year is your car?
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: g98smith on 18 September 2019, 17:18
Just bought a 2013 2.0L GT TSI Scirocco and not sure whether I should be worried or not about this dreaded timing chain tensioner issue. I’ve heard that the final revision that fixed the issue was done around May 2012 therefore I’m hoping I should be okay? Can anyone confirm/advise please?
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Arr0nUK on 18 September 2019, 19:43
Just bought a 2013 2.0L GT TSI Scirocco and not sure whether I should be worried or not about this dreaded timing chain tensioner issue. I’ve heard that the final revision that fixed the issue was done around May 2012 therefore I’m hoping I should be okay? Can anyone confirm/advise please?

2012 was the latest revision and they haven't changed it since. Remember that same engine all but some differences is in the MK7.

I had the 2009 in mine and I also now have a £5,700 bill for a new engine. Now I have the 2012 so don't worry about it.
Title: Re: Timing Chain tensioner Failure List (timing issue)- Please Update with Your Info
Post by: Realbadman on 25 September 2019, 17:51
Hi Peeps

I own a Golf GTI mk6  Adidas Edition 2011 but on a (10reg plate)
As you can see a old advert below...
https://kars-uk.com/Stock-List/VOLKSWAGON-GOLF-GTI-ADIDAS/Details/17

Well a couple of weeks ago while I was traveling down the motorway around 55mph I’d experience a slight loss of power so I’d down geared it and resumed my same speed as before which then was followed by a violent couple of bangs from the exhaust then a loss of power meaning I then had to pull over to the hard shoulder.
I then tried to restart it a few times but to no avail. The funny think about it is there was no warning or engine management lights coming up on the dashboard. Anyway to cut a long story short got the car recovered to my local garage who then took of the head & said “Timing Chain tensioner missed/skipped a beat & the problem stop oil getting to the head which then cooked the head & melted the cams” which I find hard to believe as I visually looked over the engine bay & looked for any funny smells or leakage but there weren’t any. The garage then said “your guna need a new head & maybe a new engine which will cost around £6k. So I asked “so what about the bottom of the engine then?” which he replied “we are not sure yet as we have to send a oil sample off to analysis which is guna cost you more”.

Which you can fully understand I’m not happy about & maybe not able to afford it right now.

I’ve had the car nearly four years purchase Sep,2015 with 21,???miles on now after this issue the mileage stands at less than 61,000miles. I have had a couple of problems with which I’ve fixed:
Replaced injectors
Replaced intake manifold (I think)
Replaced engine oil every 6 months up on till early last year.

My my predicament now is:
Should I fix her & keep until mid next year then sell her?
Put her in the garage until it’s a better time to fix her then sell her?
Or just sell her as she is & count my losses?

I reckon the car worth anywhere between £11k-£13.5k maybe even more as being a very rare Adidas Edition & only being one of two in the country I believe???