Author Topic: track day pads  (Read 11335 times)

VeeDubGTI16v

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Re: track day pads
« Reply #20 on: 21 July 2011, 06:49 »
Hey have you phoned mclaren about braking less? their drivers seemed to have missed a trick.

This could be next weekends pit radio conversation

MW- hey jensen try braking less on the corners you will go faster
JB- but i'll be going too fast then and crash
MW- oh, you better back off on the straights then. DH said we could go faster if we brake less
JB- ok that thomas is never wrong, hey now i'm braking less why don't we get rid of the carbon brakes and put some standard road pads on?
MW- great idea, and why don't you stop accelerating all together, we wont have to brake at all then!
JB- stand back and watch the lap times tumble boys

Offline Diamond Hell

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Re: track day pads
« Reply #21 on: 21 July 2011, 12:08 »
You don't respond well to reasoning, do you?

We're talking about track day monkeys here like you and I, not racing drivers.

Most track day drivers brake way too much and are way too keen to spend money on upgrades.  This is the point I've been making for some time, but you're too busy tell me I'm wrong and people should spend money on parts instead.  :rolleyes:

I'm sure spending money on super-fandango parts provides you with an immense sense of well-being.

Interestingly I was talking to a mate who races in the Locost series last night, who said he fits EBC greens at his car, because they're cheap and 'any old DOT5.1 fluid'.  He's probably not doing it right, either.

If I'm wrong, I'll cheerfully admit it.  I'm not proud and I'm often wrong - my wife tells me this.  In fact, you can hear her in the video from Combe telling me to brake less.  The thing is from my experience I don't find I need uprated pads, or grooved and drilled rotors, even on track, even at the end of a session, even when it's dry and the pads are quite well-worn and thus capable of absorbing less heat.

I can only repeat my earlier comment - maybe look at your driving, maybe you're doing it wrong. 

Feel free to break out some comparable footage of how much faster you are to prove your mastery of mucking about on racetracks.
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VeeDubGTI16v

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Re: track day pads
« Reply #22 on: 21 July 2011, 12:27 »
So what happens when you have mastered the line and maxed the apex speed? Can you brake less then? No because you will crash. Simple physics.

I might not be at that level but i aspire to be, as do most track day goers. Therefore i try and practice what the top guys do.

You can even increase your entry speed by using your brakes more, heard of trail braking and traction circles?

I think the difference between us is you are content going for the soft option with everything, whereas i know i will be learning and developing me and the car for a long time yet.

Ffs mate you trailer your car to events, you should have the most hardcore track car on here, but you are content being average, and when it rains overtaking a few cars with traction issues and shouting about it.

Offline Diamond Hell

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Re: track day pads
« Reply #23 on: 21 July 2011, 14:27 »
I think the difference between us is you are content going for the soft option with everything, whereas i know i will be learning and developing me and the car for a long time yet.

Ffs mate you trailer your car to events, you should have the most hardcore track car on here, but you are content being average, and when it rains overtaking a few cars with traction issues and shouting about it.

Goes to show how little you know about me and by the looks of it how little you've watched of the videos.  Although I'm sure passing a Golf5 R32 in the dry won't count, will it?

Trailering the car is purely a risk-management and cost-cutting exercise, foolish boy.

I definitely don't go for the 'soft option' which you might understand if you had a steer of my car - those bonded rubber bushes you derided?  Much sharper than shove-in poly rubbish.  I know.  I've run both.  You haven't, so your ignorant shouty view point has its normal value: very little.

FWIW, yes I'm aware of both driving techniques, so I guess that means you read Track Driver magazine, too as both were mentioned in the last month.  :grin:

You seem to think aspiring to be at an amazing skill level means spending money on super-fandango parts.  If you really think you have all the other (person) variables nailed then you're only fooling yourself, would be my view.

Spend away though, if it makes you feel good.  :grin:
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VeeDubGTI16v

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Re: track day pads
« Reply #24 on: 21 July 2011, 16:04 »
Wow! An r32? You are THE MAN! Im not messing with you, f**k me, an r32. I take it all back  :rolleyes:

Im not arguing with you re bushes, funnily enough i just fitted some to my mk4, because its a ROAD CAR.

Trailer for risk management and cost cutting? Another example of you going for the soft option tbh. Whatever reason you have a trailer you have the opportunity to make the fasters track car on the forum because you dont have to comprimise. But its got soft springs and bushes on it. I suggest you sort your own car out before handing anymore bad advice out.



Offline Diamond Hell

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Re: track day pads
« Reply #25 on: 21 July 2011, 18:31 »
Errr, it IS sorted.

Goes and stops very well.

Said the R32 wouldn't count.  The stripped and caged Golf5 GTI I was keeping up with won't count either, will it?  :grin:

You should point out my bad advice, because 'use OEM brake pads and discs' (not shat quality, natch) isn't bad advice per se, it's just different to your advice and experiences.

Probably because you're SO hardcore.  :grin:
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VeeDubGTI16v

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Re: track day pads
« Reply #26 on: 21 July 2011, 19:35 »
not at all, but its about buying the right parts to suit the purpose which is why i think your advice is wrong.

your car could have been even more 'sorted' if you had bought different bits  :wink:




Offline danny_p

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Re: track day pads
« Reply #27 on: 21 July 2011, 21:05 »
Hey have you phoned mclaren about braking less? their drivers seemed to have missed a trick.

This could be next weekends pit radio conversation

MW- hey jensen try braking less on the corners you will go faster
JB- but i'll be going too fast then and crash
MW- oh, you better back off on the straights then. DH said we could go faster if we brake less
JB- ok that thomas is never wrong, hey now i'm braking less why don't we get rid of the carbon brakes and put some standard road pads on?
MW- great idea, and why don't you stop accelerating all together, we wont have to brake at all then!
JB- stand back and watch the lap times tumble boys

there is a massive team of people doing development work on F1 cars  and one of there main aims is to inprove traction so they can go round corners faster and do "less brakeing" and judgeing how much less  less you can brake than the other guy without crashing is a very inportant part of being an f1 driver  but with x 100's of bhp those cars have there going to need some f**k off brakes.

a mk2 golf with a 16v is a littel diffrent  most are below 200bhp per ton   some are above but i dought most of them are a ton  in the sceme of things they dont need much to stop them and when you track prep them the brakes have less wok to do.

you up mecanical grip so you can corner faster so brake less before the corner, you lighten the car so when your brakeing there is less mass meaning the brakes have less energy to absorb to acheve the same reduction in speed.  and due to the brick like airodynamics of the mk2 it's not going to arrive at the next corner that much faster.   

i had cheepo pads in mine for quite a long time,   there was no shortage of brakeing effort and i only ever faded them once, on other 280 mm setups ive driven   including DH's   std disks and pads have proven plenty capable,  i switched to uprated pads as i was planning on turning the power up quite a ew notches  and also i sometimes use the brakes to load up the engine if i want to check and issue or tweek the map and that is  way harder on the brakes than driveing. 

the bogest problem with uprated pads is the pads  may be ok  getting that hot but if your getting them ot enough to really test them the disks often get f**ked off and warp and that can end a track day very promtly
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Offline madmanmart

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Re: track day pads
« Reply #28 on: 21 July 2011, 21:06 »
Now now girls, handbags down.  :grin:

Both of you make interesting points but I have to say I will never be using OEM pads in my track car after the first time I used them I had mega brake fake. As I said in my earlier post I'm running EBC Red stuffs and I'm happy with them.

As for brake fluid I'm using standard spec DOT4 and never had brake fade.

My car is also trailered to keep costs down tax, insurance MOT ect. Plus this means I go balls out (in my opinion) because I don't care if I crash and if I did I would drag it home and fix or change shell.

But I only do it for abit of fun and Ive not spent alot at all really.


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VeeDubGTI16v

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Re: track day pads
« Reply #29 on: 23 July 2011, 10:06 »
Hey have you phoned mclaren about braking less? their drivers seemed to have missed a trick.

This could be next weekends pit radio conversation

MW- hey jensen try braking less on the corners you will go faster
JB- but i'll be going too fast then and crash
MW- oh, you better back off on the straights then. DH said we could go faster if we brake less
JB- ok that thomas is never wrong, hey now i'm braking less why don't we get rid of the carbon brakes and put some standard road pads on?
MW- great idea, and why don't you stop accelerating all together, we wont have to brake at all then!
JB- stand back and watch the lap times tumble boys

there is a massive team of people doing development work on F1 cars  and one of there main aims is to inprove traction so they can go round corners faster and do "less brakeing" and judgeing how much less  less you can brake than the other guy without crashing is a very inportant part of being an f1 driver  but with x 100's of bhp those cars have there going to need some f**k off brakes.

a mk2 golf with a 16v is a littel diffrent  most are below 200bhp per ton   some are above but i dought most of them are a ton  in the sceme of things they dont need much to stop them and when you track prep them the brakes have less wok to do.

you up mecanical grip so you can corner faster so brake less before the corner, you lighten the car so when your brakeing there is less mass meaning the brakes have less energy to absorb to acheve the same reduction in speed.  and due to the brick like airodynamics of the mk2 it's not going to arrive at the next corner that much faster.  

i had cheepo pads in mine for quite a long time,   there was no shortage of brakeing effort and i only ever faded them once, on other 280 mm setups ive driven   including DH's   std disks and pads have proven plenty capable,  i switched to uprated pads as i was planning on turning the power up quite a ew notches  and also i sometimes use the brakes to load up the engine if i want to check and issue or tweek the map and that is  way harder on the brakes than driveing. 

the bogest problem with uprated pads is the pads  may be ok  getting that hot but if your getting them ot enough to really test them the disks often get f**ked off and warp and that can end a track day very promtly


I think 'braking less' needs to be defined properly tbh. If you have more grip in f1 you will indeed brake less but you will brake with the same force but for a shorter period of time. Lets say for numbers sake that you can brake 10% less than before (MASSIVE increase in entry speed) thats still 90% where you have to brake the same as before the added grip was found. So for components sake its negligable.  Using f1 as an example we have to assume this extra grip is downforce, which increases braking forces available massively. I only used f1 to take the piss out of thomas but i realise it has very little to do with trackdays

Well its swings and roundabouts with upping grip and brakes, if you are gripping more round the corners you are also arriving at corners faster so the amount of braking will hardly change.  Its probably due to the 200kg's ish of ballast syncro's carry that you guys can't feel this difference.  And if you aren't brakingas hard as the available grip allows then you are losing lap time.

Have to say i have never warped a disc, but the front brakes are ducted. I do tend to wear out discs quicker than pads though  :grin: