Great Autocar review of 7.5 GTI

[fredgroves]

Plenty of other choices if you just care about driving experience... In fact most group tests nearly always put the competition above the gti for that. It's the practically, discreet looks and that it's not a headbanger is why it comes out on top. Yet I'm fairly sure VW sell far more gtis than the competition sell theirs, probably put together. Some might see that as a negative but equally it's why VW won't make a Type R or RS or Megane cup thing as their main offering. CS as limited special every decade or so perhaps... The rest is up to owners if they want a Halfords burger car park special.

[I wanted a GTi]

Plenty of other choices if you just care about driving experience... In fact most group tests nearly always put the competition above the gti for that. It's the practically, discreet looks and that it's not a headbanger is why it comes out on top. Yet I'm fairly sure VW sell far more gtis than the competition sell theirs, probably put together. Some might see that as a negative but equally it's why VW won't make a Type R or RS or Megane cup thing as their main offering. CS as limited special every decade or so perhaps... The rest is up to owners if they want a Halfords burger car park special.

Well said, as was Watts post before.

[scanesare]

You are making lots of assumptions here, and being a bit condescending in the process, but your opinion is just that, not a fact. Those of us not blessed with an unlimited budget have to compromise somewhere and therefore choose our cars for our own reasons - need, desire, budget, single car practicality, weekend toy etc. You say that the GTI is not the best with regards performance and handling and that's true but it's is still up there as an enthusiast's choice with great driver appeal. To improve on those aspects is likely to push the price up or force quality down in other areas. I don't want that, it's great as it is

(sigh)

Why so many people on the internet confuse themselves with being the majority I will never understand, these are two different things. You in particular can be the biggest petrol-head/enthusiast out there and it really is not in my interest to argue on that. I'm merely describing the bigger picture of the GTI demographics based not on random assumptions but on personal experiences with them and mostly from the attitude which has many been expressed in VW forums, as well as in this very forum (actually even in this thread...) regarding their priorities on the performance department. That shouldn't really come as a surprise to anyone having spent enough time on the internet and on the road? Maybe we can disagree on the exact extent but I don't think you could state the GTI owners (on average) are the most hardcore owners in the hot-hatch class. Nothing more, nothing less, nothing personal.

Also, it doesn't add up playing the "I don't care/want top performance" card but then all of a sudden when someone dares to state just that, that GTI has become a car that appeals to people with other factors topping their car checklist (which is not even something to be worried about anyway, a car is a choice of many other things as well) becoming all defensive in a "who did you not call an enthusiast???" way.

The last couple of your sentences sum it well I think: You acknowledge dynamically the car is not up there with the best but are happy with the current performance-looks-price balance - I clearly believe that there is room for improvement. Mainly because everyone seems to be able to do it better these days driving wise and at a comparable if not lower cost, so I am expecting more from the car that defined the class. I think it's a given that the touches needed to go there would marginally (if any at all) be raising the cost or bringing down quality. The solutions are there and waiting. It's just that VW knows their target group is simply not interested which brings us back to the original argument...

[scanesare]

Plenty of other choices if you just care about driving experience... In fact most group tests nearly always put the competition above the gti for that. It's the practically, discreet looks and that it's not a headbanger is why it comes out on top. Yet I'm fairly sure VW sell far more gtis than the competition sell theirs, probably put together. Some might see that as a negative but equally it's why VW won't make a Type R or RS or Megane cup thing as their main offering. CS as limited special every decade or so perhaps... The rest is up to owners if they want a Halfords burger car park special.

Agree to basically everything. But as stated just above, I think that by improving stuff in the way they went with the Clubsport there are only gains to be had. How much power can be debatable but I don't know of anyone that would complain because of extra control and feed-back, surely none of our enthusiast friends?  It doesn't have to become the best as that would mean some compromises in the comfort department but they can surely move from the bottom of the dynamics board that they currently seem to be sitting according to both our experiences and the reviews. And the reason I would very much like this to happen with the MK8 is that in almost all other departments it is the car I prefer to anything else out there.

[fredgroves]

The mk8 is going to be something totally new... Some sort of hybrid all round I suspect. Given the timing for bans on non hybrid sales in certain countries, its got to be a hybrid hasn't it? As such it's a brave new world and almost certainly mk1 brave new world is going to be... Not great I'd imagine... Definitely nothing sharp IMHO

[Splashalot]

“ The gti is more about up selling a golf than anything. Want a nice spec golf? It's the gti.
 “

“ The part about the indifferent average GTI driver is probably right. I can't remember the times I crossed another GTI going the opposite direction waiting to get a smile/wave or positive nod (while i was ready to nod back ofc) and the other driver hadn't even noticed me, mostly in good visibility and empty road conditions. That attitude (on average) creates the impression of not exactly a petrolhead target group “

Sorry OPs but my experience and opinion is different.

Most GTDs seem to be middle management company cars not driven by enthusiasts at all.

A large number of R’s are also company cars taken only because of the ridiculous deals offered by VWFS and are “the latest thing” for many company users.

(Residuals on R’s are pretty poor given the fab car it is).

I’m not suggesting non- GTI owners on this site fall into these categories for their GTDs or R’s by the way!

Here’s a question. How many GTIs are company cars? Not many I venture. Most are bought privately by one means or another and are relatively rare....in much smaller volumes compared with the others. Why? Because most are privately run.

I think most GTI owners are indeed enthusiasts. They may not want to rag their pride and joys all the time but given the relatively high cost of purchasing and running, you would have to love them to run one.

Next contestant please...

Fail to see the relation there. As you say, many GTD and R are company cars because VW decided to offer deals on those cars no? So if there were equal offers for GTIs they would have just been the same. Regardless of which, every privately owned car is just that, hardly a proof of an enthusiast/petrolhead since the majority of people still has to pay its own money to drive a car 

Besides if everybody more or less agrees the GTI's strong point is neither dynamics or straight line performance we're always exactly where we were: "just need a good all rounder with upmarket feel - can't be too arsed about driving feel and feedback - 230/245bhp is the fastest I'll ever need to go, heck I've never actually done more than 70mph - can't use all that power/performance on a public road" etc. etc. We are talking majorities here, not just what you and me think.

You are making lots of assumptions here, and being a bit condescending in the process, but your opinion is just that, not a fact. Those of us not blessed with an unlimited budget have to compromise somewhere and therefore choose our cars for our own reasons - need, desire, budget, single car practicality, weekend toy etc. You say that the GTI is not the best with regards performance and handling and that's true but it's is still up there as an enthusiast's choice with great driver appeal. To improve on those aspects is likely to push the price up or force quality down in other areas. I don't want that, it's great as it is

Agree - well said, Watts.

Don't really understand the OP continuing to argue the point.  We all have our opinions, not to mention many and varied reasons for buying a car and I'm not sure his/her opinions are going to change that.

To the OP, so the now ~5 y/o GTI is slightly outclassed in pure performance terms by the latest releases from competitors?  So what. Maybe come back after the mk8 is released for a fairer comparison? Regardless, I'd have thought the GTI's continuing sales success is proof that it hits exactly the right spot for a lot of people, me included. 

There are more performance oriented hatches for people who want that sort of thing.  Perhaps the OP would be better served by one of those.

[P6GTD]

  to you to scanesare.

The GTI forum describes itself as "An independent forum for Volkswagen Golf GTI enthusiasts"

As you mock the word "enthusiast" you are clearly loitering on the wrong forum my friend.

End of subject.

[fredgroves]

I'm enthusiastic about my car... my GTD.

I love it for what it is, I didn't buy a Range Rover V8, a BMW M3, a Lotus or a Scooby. Nothing else suits my style, budget and needs. I'd recommend one to anyone and I do.

"Enthusiast" doesn't necessarily mean performance mods, laps round the ring or traffic light drag racing.

[scanesare]

To the OP, so the now ~5 y/o GTI is slightly outclassed in pure performance terms by the latest releases from competitors?  So what. Maybe come back after the mk8 is released for a fairer comparison? Regardless, I'd have thought the GTI's continuing sales success is proof that it hits exactly the right spot for a lot of people, me included. 

There are more performance oriented hatches for people who want that sort of thing.  Perhaps the OP would be better served by one of those.

The problem is, it was outclassed from the beginning though. Nobody could have done a better job at making it so obvious than SEAT who used VW's underpinnings to build a much more potent yet every bit as daily car as the GTI in the form of the Leon Cupra, even grabbing a record of the 'Ring in the mean time with a shopping trolley like the Cupra estate. Now please go ahead and tell me how much less daily is a Cupra than a GTI? (erm... none at all).

The problem is, VW does not seem to care about that - in fact their choice is fully deliberate for a number of reasons - as it now has the R to focus its attention to and promote it as the ultimate performance hatch, demoting the GTI to a lukewarm choice for the people that value upmarket cabin feel over driving feel.

Clearly that is not a concern for some people here and it's fine, but why anyone has to go crazy worrying his "enthusiast-nes" is taking a hit if one states the (widely accepted and plenty reported fact that) GTI is not up there with the best any more in the dynamics and performance department and an opinion (more likely a wish) is expressed towards sharpening the car? Believe me there is nothing to lose here, only to win, especially if, you know... you're an... ( oh i won't say it again!)

[Watts]

This could open up to a very good debate on the GTI if you didn't persist in presenting your opinions as facts and was rather less rude in the delivery of them. As such, I don't think I'm able to add anything else useful to this thread.