Author Topic: Shed-esque Golf2 Syncro  (Read 145136 times)

Offline Diamond Hell

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Re: Golf2 Syncro 2.0i 8V crossflow running on Megasquirt
« Reply #300 on: 17 March 2010, 23:18 »
Omex might be a better bet for you, as they're Cheltenham-based, as opposed to Emerald who are on the other side of the country.

Give the guys at Interpro a call and see what they recommend.
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Offline maxp

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Re: Golf2 Syncro 2.0i 8V crossflow running on Megasquirt
« Reply #301 on: 18 March 2010, 00:48 »
Following up on my noob question, if they were more expensive than the 16v, how did VW pitch them to customers? As far as i know they use more fuel, and the golf is hardly suited to going off-road or towing. Icy/snowy/wet roads perhaps?

Offline Diamond Hell

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Re: Golf2 Syncro 2.0i 8V crossflow running on Megasquirt
« Reply #302 on: 18 March 2010, 07:40 »
They didn't really pitch them.

Certain people (often in rural areas) wanted a 4WD car for the security 4WD brings and were pleased to buy a 4WD Golf.  You should see the quantities of Golden Retriever hair I'm still pulling out of mine.

In Germany the weather is that much colder that a 4WD Golf has a major appeal.  The UK was always going to be a niche market, but you need to consider the market conditions at the time - Vauxhall had a 4WD Cavalier, Ford a 4WD Sierra and the Audi quattros were the bee's knees.  Why wouldn't VW offer a 4WD Golf variant?
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VeeDubGTI16v

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Re: Golf2 Syncro 2.0i 8V crossflow running on Megasquirt
« Reply #303 on: 18 March 2010, 09:35 »
does ms have the ability to switch between 2 maps?

Offline danny_p

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Re: Golf2 Syncro 2.0i 8V crossflow running on Megasquirt
« Reply #304 on: 18 March 2010, 10:11 »
yes. iirc you can even wire up a switch to select map not played with that feature yet tho
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Offline Diamond Hell

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Re: Golf2 Syncro 2.0i 8V crossflow running on Megasquirt
« Reply #305 on: 18 March 2010, 10:17 »
Attach laptop and put whatever the hell you want on it.  The map can be tuned while driving, or left set and the laptop disconnected.

When Danny was working on the MG he was changing variables in the map while it was running.  There'd be a cough and the pitch of the engine would change.  Not quite the F1 car playing happy birthday, but you ge the picture.

The auto-tune on the wide-band is the cutest bit I've seen so far - you set the AFR target ratios and the wideband feeds back to the MS unit, which constantly aims the fueling towards where it should be for the defined parameters.

The concept of having 'two maps' and switching between them's a bit basic, really.
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Offline Horney

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Re: Golf2 Syncro 2.0i 8V crossflow running on Megasquirt
« Reply #306 on: 18 March 2010, 10:22 »
The concept of having 'two maps' and switching between them's a bit basic, really.

Depends what you want though eh? I mean if you for instance have to drive your car to and from trackdays it would be kinda cool to have an "economy map" for pootling there and "balls out who cares about how much fuel it uses" map for ultimate lap pace.

Nick

VeeDubGTI16v

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Re: Golf2 Syncro 2.0i 8V crossflow running on Megasquirt
« Reply #307 on: 18 March 2010, 10:35 »
danny's answer was sufficient, no need for your pompous one. Aftermarket ecu's don't have this facility unless you spend thousands. So much for a simple concept eh?

1 for a road map, mapped on the road, 2 for a wot map, mapped on the rollers  :cool:


Offline Diamond Hell

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Re: Golf2 Syncro 2.0i 8V crossflow running on Megasquirt
« Reply #308 on: 18 March 2010, 12:53 »
Depends what you want though eh? I mean if you for instance have to drive your car to and from trackdays it would be kinda cool to have an "economy map" for pootling there and "balls out who cares about how much fuel it uses" map for ultimate lap pace.

If it's an NA motor it's not really the case - if it's mapped right, it's mapped right, all through the sites, whether you're pootling, or giving it large the engine runs efficiently and properly.  No need to throw heaps of fuel at it, unless the map demands it for throttle opening, load and engine speed etc.  Even then you want a stoichiometric, or slightly lean set of values for the site the engine's in at the time to make it perform optimally.

A well-mapped performance EFI motor should return good economy (although there is a balance involved obviously).  Just look at the figures for BMW M cars and compare specific output:MPG.

If it's forced induction that's where you would typically up and down the boost for a turbo-nutter map and an easy-on-the-boost map.  These maps would typically consume substantially different quantities of fuel, but the outputs at pretty much everything above idle would be quite different, too

Aftermarket ecu's don't have this facility unless you spend thousands. So much for a simple concept eh?

Why do you think we're using Megasquirt here? No offence meant, but you need to read up more on mapping and ECUs if you're going to engage on the subject.  Even keeping up with PPC and Dave Walker's column each month will help you a lot if you want to understand this sort of stuff.

It IS a simple concept - it's just two maps.  Provided the ECU has sufficient data holding capacity, it's simply a software switch. Building the map is the complex bit.

1 for a road map, mapped on the road, 2 for a wot map, mapped on the rollers  :cool:

You'd never map on the road unless you have no other option (or you're tight - hi!).  You can't effectively hold the car in the map sites as you can on the rollers.  You also won't be able to detect the last 10-15% difference in power per map site on the road, which the rollers will pull out.

Wide Open Throttle is simply a number of sites in the map, depending on engine conditions - it's part of the same map as the 'road' map.

Not pompous, just a bit more informed and trying to help you understand what we're doing here and why and how.  :sad:
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Offline danny_p

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Re: Golf2 Syncro 2.0i 8V crossflow running on Megasquirt
« Reply #309 on: 18 March 2010, 13:37 »
AS DH said for what were doing atm there is no point in haveing multi maps,  sopose if your tight you choudl do one for 97 ron on the track and one for 95 on the road but when you think about it both maps would be very simalar, the track car will proably get slightly richer AFR's for flat out, keeps things a bit cooler. the spark is where you find the power. 

so even tho running 97 ron on the track map,  your proably going to be keeping a good margin of safety in the spark,  as on the track everythgin is going to be working harder and the engine, is going to be hotter ( epectaly the exhaust valve and tip of the plug )  the plug issue can be got round by fitting cooler plugs but doing anythign about the exhaust valve is a PITA, thankfully for me the 16v dosen't really suffer from any problems there, we'll see how the 8v gets on.  when boost is involved i can see why people have multi maps.

really a dyno is needed to fine the point where more ignition advance becomes pointless,   as once it stops makeing more torque at that specific load site there is no point adding more advance,  my engine was making more and more torque right to the point it started pinking at some load sites so there i just backed off the advance about 3 degrees from when i picked up the pinking.  and it seemed to work well at that.   

i think i have found a spark map for the enigne,  ( as the one road in and out of foy is blocked atm i'm stuck at home ) so i've been trundeling through stuff on the laptop and found a crossflow 8v spark map. i'm thinking that;ll do for a base

all the VW's have gone bar 1.