Author Topic: The Petrol vs Diesel debate  (Read 9891 times)

Offline busa2000

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Re: The Petrol vs Diesel debate
« Reply #10 on: 23 January 2018, 18:47 »
Personally I can understand what you are saying as the list price difference has now come in favour of the diesel so there is justification there alone, I have been lucky enough to own in order Mk 7 GTD  . PP GTI and now a 7.5 R and whilst I actually love my R actually miss the drivability of the GTD if you understand what I mean. The R is fabulous but in the REAL world the GTD ain't far away would I buy another, no as I fear the backlash against diesel is too strong my son has just come out of his GTD and lost s##tloads and now has a PP GTI as the residuals dropped of the face of a cliff . If you are prepared to take a gamble with owning a GTD for the next few years go for it but with my own money over next few years personally for me it's a petrol all the way , mind you leasing is a different proposition as you are taking away the risk factor . You pays your money you take your chances !!!!! Did I say I love my R but that's another story !!!!

Offline dervdave

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Re: The Petrol vs Diesel debate
« Reply #11 on: 23 January 2018, 18:53 »
Love my GTD !
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Offline fredgroves

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Re: The Petrol vs Diesel debate
« Reply #12 on: 23 January 2018, 19:16 »
Yup that article is correct in every way except that it says co2 is toxic... It's not. Damaging to the climate but not toxic.
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Offline Guzzle

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Re: The Petrol vs Diesel debate
« Reply #13 on: 23 January 2018, 21:52 »
I still see way more Mk7 & Mk7.5 GTD's than I do R's or GTI's. So I think there is still demand for fast and sporty diesels, and the diesel engine obituary is being written prematurely.

GTD's aren't as much fun as a petrol engine equivalent, but they should save you more money over a GTI the more miles you cover. I would think for now at least swapping from a GTD to a GTI is more of a decision made with the heart rather than the wallet. However much you think you might lose on your current GTD, I would imagine you'll lose more on a brand new GTI.

I looked at the GTE when I was getting my GTD, but decided against it. Hybrid and EV technology still has a way to go before it becomes more viable than the GTD for longer journeys and high mileage use. The environmental benefits are also debatable if you consider the composition and decomposition of the batteries, and not just the emissions.
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Offline Pinky1959

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Re: The Petrol vs Diesel debate
« Reply #14 on: 23 January 2018, 22:34 »
We have two cars a Tiguan sport and a Golf GTD both paid for and are 6 years old now , mileage is minimal 63000 and 52 000 , but at the moment the plan is to keep them both as we have cut our mileage loads , It took me 2 and a 1/2 months to do 1000 miles recently in the Tiguan I was doing 900 miles per month before .
I do take the cars on runs now and again to keep them ok and they get serviced every year .
I do really fancy a new Tiguan but it would have to be the R line but I cant justify spending that amount on a new car at this moment and I would seriously consider a petrol one if /when I get round to changing .
The garage have a few  unregistered ones sitting waiting so getting one would be quite quick  and they have grey as well , Tempting !!!!
I initially did not like diesel cars but after having tried one I was hooked and so was my wife and they have been brilliant cars to own .

Offline Alun

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Re: The Petrol vs Diesel debate
« Reply #15 on: 23 January 2018, 22:37 »
Fully agree with all the OP has to say.

I'm surprised the GTD is cheaper than the GTI though - traditionally diesels have invariably been more expensive to purchase, but you live and learn.

Also, whilst diesel engines have come on leaps and bounds in terms of refinement, the improvements in economy have been smaller. However I also feel the improvements in economy on the petrols has been greater (although there is still a reasonable margin between the 2). I might be talking rubbish, but that's my perception of it all.

That said, I don't do loads of miles and we actually changed Mrs Gnashers diesel Astra for a petrol Qashqui for exactly the same reason (before we ended up with DPF issues due to the short journey's she does)

GTI 245ps Vs  GTD 184ps I believe maybe that is why the Petrol is more expensive than the Diesel ???

Offline mcmaddy

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Re: The Petrol vs Diesel debate
« Reply #16 on: 24 January 2018, 06:44 »
The gtd has always been cheaper than the GTi in mk7 guise.
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Offline Sootchucker

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Re: The Petrol vs Diesel debate
« Reply #17 on: 24 January 2018, 08:19 »
An interesting set of replies. I really thought I'd be taken to task for even thinking that diesel might still be an alternative to petrol  :grin: :grin:

In all seriousness, I think my decision has been made, in that I will keep the GTD until the end of the PCP (around 1 years time), then either possibly decide to purchase it if the diesel climate has changed for the positive and things have stabilized, or chop it in. TBH, not too worried about depreciation, and none of my previous 5 VW's have never really earned me any real equity (suppose VW got their sums right then), so worst case scenario, I just had the car back to VW, and they will have yet another possibly hard to sell second hand diesel on their hands. It's just not economically viable at this time to make a knee jerk reaction.

Despite my writings in that I think the end of the diesel engine has been very premature, I know that my next new car whatever it will be, will not be a diesel. I do love the lazy torque and the great MPG that diesel offers, but I also need to constantly be aware of running the car at reasonable speeds occasionally to avoid DPF issues (which I've got used to over the last 3 VW diesels and is sort of second nature now). Also, with the wife having a Polo Blue GT (1.4 TSI 140ps DSG), when I do occasionally drive that, especially in winter, I'm constantly amazed at how quickly the engine reaches normal operating temperature (approx 2 miles) compared to my GTD (approx 10-12 miles), and the lovely sound it makes and how free revving it is.

Yes I think petrol is in my future but not because I don't believe diesel has a future, (it has), but because my circumstances and small annual mileages no longer warrant the great MPG that the derv engine offers, and I can afford to take a 20-30% hit on economy to start having a bit more refinement and occasional fun. The problem will be, what do I replace it with ? I do love the Golf (have had 6 of them including 2 MK7 GTD's), would I want a 3rd MK7 (7.5) even if it is a GTI, especially with a MK8 rumoured to be coming in 2019/2020 - who knows, I guess it depends on finances at the time.

Now, I'm going to be totally out there now. Last weekend I went with a friend to test drive Skoda's new Karoq, which for those that don't know is the companies new compact SUV. Now I know the term SUV is a bit of a swear word, and I certainly agree to a point. The Range Rovers, X5's, Q7's Touareg's etc. that i see, tend to be driven by single occupancy drivers who use the car as a status symbol rather than an actual need and are gas guzzlers and emit huge amounts of Nox and Co2 (compared to a smaller hatchback) and therefore should be taxed much further. But the arrival of the "compact" SUV, that gives similar performance, emissions and MPG as a hatch are still quite interesting to me.

The Karoq is one such car. I have to say, I was seriously impressed especially after having recently sat in an new VW T-Roc which whilst looking nice had an awful cheap plastic interior. Well the one in the Karoq was anything but that. Soft touch materials, ambient lighting everywhere (including the ability to change colours), and very similar tech to the VW group, including the active info display, LED lighting, Lane assist, rear assist, passenger detections etc etc. I won't go into the whole thing like a review but trust me for just over £30k (before discount), that a fully loaded Karoq Edition with almost every option ticked. It's a lot of car for the money (with the 1.5 TSI 150PS DSG engine), and I have to be honest, it's the first Skoda I've actually looked at that looks really good from all angles. I was really surprised as I expected the build quality to be a little down from VW, but if anything it was better ! As I'm not getting any younger the slightly higher driving position suited me (although not true 4x4 ride height), in a car not much bigger dimensionally (expect height) or weight. Oh, I might have a contender  :laugh: :laugh:
 
« Last Edit: 24 January 2018, 08:23 by Sootchucker »
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Offline fredgroves

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Re: The Petrol vs Diesel debate
« Reply #18 on: 24 January 2018, 09:06 »
I'm constantly amazed at how quickly the engine reaches normal operating temperature (approx 2 miles) compared to my GTD (approx 10-12 miles), and the lovely sound it makes and how free revving it is.

What are you doing man?

My GTD reaches normal temp (at this time of year), definitely in under 2.5 miles. I've noted this several times over the years when we've been talking about GTDs vs temperature and fuel economy. I remember very clearly the point on the road from my house where its warmed up and have just double checked google for the distance.

Quote
Now, I'm going to be totally out there now. Last weekend I went with a friend to test drive Skoda's new Karoq, which for those that don't know is the companies new compact SUV.

From IWAG's link earlier up this thread:

"The new unintended consequence here is that while people are moving away from diesel cars as the Government wanted, they’re not buying lower emissions vehicles, instead they’re buying high polluting, big engine petrol SUVs, which is leading to an unprecedented rise in CO2 emissions"

Sounds like you are going there too! (so did IWAG with his VW Peasant Crusher)
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Offline Sootchucker

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Re: The Petrol vs Diesel debate
« Reply #19 on: 24 January 2018, 09:19 »
Ah, not so fast Fred. Yes I saw that comment, however my current GTD (5 door DSG) is listed as 124 g/km Co2 and a standard GTI is 148 g/km.

The Karoq I'm mentioning (1.5 TSI DSG) is 127g/km, so hardy a Chelsea Tractor, and with MPG figures (albeit official ones) of

Urban - 41.5mpg   Extra Urban - 56.5mpg and Combined of 50.4mpg,

it's much better on fuel than a GTI and not a million miles away from a GTD (about 16% worse on the combined cycle - offical)  :grin:   What I was trying to say is that the term SUV is all encompassing, however they come in all shapes and sizes (indeed the new Ford Ecosport SUV's are tiny !)
« Last Edit: 24 January 2018, 09:21 by Sootchucker »
2022 Tiguan R-Line 2.0 TSI 4-Motion. Nightshade blue, pano roof, IQ lights, Nav Pro, Harmon Kardon, Heated Windscreen, Heated rear seats, Wireless charging, Heads up display, dual height boot floor, Keyless with electric tailgate, Electronic TPMS, underbody protection, Area View Cameras