Movie: *Testing* Brake cooling on GTI MK7 (7.5), Second fitted *update*

[itavaltalainen]

He is testing brake cooling plastic wind deflectors in November in Sweden, I'd say brakes won't really need cooling this time of year (let alone the rest of the year for road use).
I have never come into a situation on the road where brake fade would be an issue and I do sometimes like to trash it on empty B roads.... or the German motorway.

[Wide]

He is testing brake cooling plastic wind deflectors in November in Sweden, I'd say brakes won't really need cooling this time of year (let alone the rest of the year for road use).
I have never come into a situation on the road where brake fade would be an issue and I do sometimes like to trash it on empty B roads.... or the German motorway.

  :grin:Good point. But i am testing for next summer events, the wether was not easy to change..

You don´t need ventilated brakes in the front if you just drive on the street

[golfdave]

You don´t need ventilated brakes in the front if you just drive on the street

All the discs on your car are vented as you have the PP ...

The CCS has the same size discs as your car just the fronts are in a lighter two piece version with drilled holes.

The internal vents are directional on the CCS disc, but both the left & right disc use the same blank, so the direction of rotation on one side is wrong..this is what causes the extra heat build up & causes the discs to warp as per the article in this months VW driver mag.

[Wide]

You don´t need ventilated brakes in the front if you just drive on the street

All the discs on your car are vented as you have the PP ...

The CCS has the same size discs as your car just the fronts are in a lighter two piece version with drilled holes.

The internal vents are directional on the CCS disc, but both the left & right disc use the same blank, so the direction of rotation on one side is wrong..this is what causes the extra heat build up & causes the discs to warp as per the article in this months VW driver mag.

I know, i was only kidding..

But it sounds realy strange that the CCS disc is not proper tested at VW..

[scanesare]

The same problem (warping of one disc due to "asymmetric" directional vanes on both discs) is present on the Brembo brakes of Performance Pack of the Leon Cupra, several reports on SEAT forums. Sounds almost incredible to have something so obvious leave the design office of Audi, SEAT, and now VW... It's so basic that you gotta wonder about couple of things...

On another note, just one track event and discs got warped? I'm smelling too much enthusiasm ("gotta live up to the Nurburgring record story" and all...  ) Oh and £1300 for CSS brakes and pads seriously? Those 4 items shouldn't be costing more than 500 eur altogether iirc so I guess there's a pretty big (inflated) labour cost included in that quote.

2 track days with the CS so far, one of them on a really small, tight and quite brutal track for brakes without any issues...

PS. I'll second what was mentioned earlier in this thread though that you shouldn't(mustn't) need ducts for road use or you must be doing something really (like really really) wrong. Having them on for extra piece of mind if doing regular track days or just for showing off to friends in the pub is fine but anyone actually claiming he suffered brake fade, with the PP brakes, on a public road, unless doing repeated 100-0km/h tests OR driving down a very steep empty hill, needs to have his licence revoked...

[Wide]

The same problem (warping of one disc due to "asymmetric" directional vanes on both discs) is present on the Brembo brakes of Performance Pack of the Leon Cupra, several reports on SEAT forums. Sounds almost incredible to have something so obvious leave the design office of Audi, SEAT, and now VW... It's so basic that you gotta wonder about couple of things...

On another note, just one track event and discs got warped? I'm smelling too much enthusiasm ("gotta live up to the Nurburgring record story" and all...  ) Oh and £1300 for CSS brakes and pads seriously? Those 4 items shouldn't be costing more than 500 eur altogether iirc so I guess there's a pretty big (inflated) labour cost included in that quote.

2 track days with the CS so far, one of them on a really small, tight and quite brutal track for brakes without any issues...

PS. I'll second what was mentioned earlier in this thread though that you shouldn't(mustn't) need ducts for road use or you must be doing something really (like really really) wrong. Having them on for extra piece of mind if doing regular track days or just for showing off to friends in the pub is fine but anyone actually claiming he suffered brake fade, with the PP brakes, on a public road, unless doing repeated 100-0km/h tests OR driving down a very steep empty hill, needs to have his licence revoked...

You have some brake cooling from start on the GTI, why not improve that and save the Brakes for no money at all?.

It is the heat that destroy the brakes, so think you will have an extra 1000miles on the pads with extra cooling for normal GTI driving on the street.. 

[golfdave]

The same problem (warping of one disc due to "asymmetric" directional vanes on both discs) is present on the Brembo brakes of Performance Pack of the Leon Cupra, several reports on SEAT forums. Sounds almost incredible to have something so obvious leave the design office of Audi, SEAT, and now VW... It's so basic that you gotta wonder about couple of things...

On another note, just one track event and discs got warped? I'm smelling too much enthusiasm ("gotta live up to the Nurburgring record story" and all...  ) Oh and £1300 for CSS brakes and pads seriously? Those 4 items shouldn't be costing more than 500 eur altogether iirc so I guess there's a pretty big (inflated) labour cost included in that quote.

2 track days with the CS so far, one of them on a really small, tight and quite brutal track for brakes without any issues...

PS. I'll second what was mentioned earlier in this thread though that you shouldn't(mustn't) need ducts for road use or you must be doing something really (like really really) wrong. Having them on for extra piece of mind if doing regular track days or just for showing off to friends in the pub is fine but anyone actually claiming he suffered brake fade, with the PP brakes, on a public road, unless doing repeated 100-0km/h tests OR driving down a very steep empty hill, needs to have his licence revoked...

Couple of points the article in VW Driver mag I think the owner is a writer for the mag as refered to previous "instalments". Also the race track was Bedford, & it was £1320 for All new discs & pads inc fitting front & rear...

VAG like many manufactures will do things down to the cheapest price, it is cheaper to use the same blank....why they did not use radial (non directional) vanes I have no idea..

Also of note:- the side which has the wrong rotation is the side that the FXD "Haldex unit" is on..

Final point, you can cook most brakes at legal speeds in UK & driving sensibly, you just need the right roads...& I live near the best UK drivers roads & one is about 2hrs end to end .....& has three steep descents/ascents....very easy to cook brakes & with mates & ski gear in even easier...

I have the light 1.4lt so way less nose weight than GTI & R...& the standard 288mm discs I cooked & have total loss of braking after the last descent of the drive....upgraded to 312mm ATE discs & pads & Audi TT cooling ducts & no problems...however if I had the 340mm setup on a GTI/R with the heavier engine I think I could still cook that set up....at least the piston seals...

The 340mm set up with a big cast iron sliding fist caliper & one piston is a joke....a 312mm 4 pot brembo is way better at heat disipation & braking & way lighter (reduced unsprung weight)...& the Seat Cupra R used to have this fiited years ago & it was an easy aftermarket upgrade for the Skoda Fabia VRS..

VW just upselling rubbish to get the most profit...

[scanesare]

The same problem (warping of one disc due to "asymmetric" directional vanes on both discs) is present on the Brembo brakes of Performance Pack of the Leon Cupra, several reports on SEAT forums. Sounds almost incredible to have something so obvious leave the design office of Audi, SEAT, and now VW... It's so basic that you gotta wonder about couple of things...

On another note, just one track event and discs got warped? I'm smelling too much enthusiasm ("gotta live up to the Nurburgring record story" and all...  ) Oh and £1300 for CSS brakes and pads seriously? Those 4 items shouldn't be costing more than 500 eur altogether iirc so I guess there's a pretty big (inflated) labour cost included in that quote.

2 track days with the CS so far, one of them on a really small, tight and quite brutal track for brakes without any issues...

PS. I'll second what was mentioned earlier in this thread though that you shouldn't(mustn't) need ducts for road use or you must be doing something really (like really really) wrong. Having them on for extra piece of mind if doing regular track days or just for showing off to friends in the pub is fine but anyone actually claiming he suffered brake fade, with the PP brakes, on a public road, unless doing repeated 100-0km/h tests OR driving down a very steep empty hill, needs to have his licence revoked...

Couple of points the article in VW Driver mag I think the owner is a writer for the mag as refered to previous "instalments". Also the race track was Bedford, & it was £1320 for All new discs & pads inc fitting front & rear...

VAG like many manufactures will do things down to the cheapest price, it is cheaper to use the same blank....why they did not use radial (non directional) vanes I have no idea..

Also of note:- the side which has the wrong rotation is the side that the FXD "Haldex unit" is on..

Final point, you can cook most brakes at legal speeds in UK & driving sensibly, you just need the right roads...& I live near the best UK drivers roads & one is about 2hrs end to end .....& has three steep descents/ascents....very easy to cook brakes & with mates & ski gear in even easier...

I have the light 1.4lt so way less nose weight than GTI & R...& the standard 288mm discs I cooked & have total loss of braking after the last descent of the drive....upgraded to 312mm ATE discs & pads & Audi TT cooling ducts & no problems...however if I had the 340mm setup on a GTI/R with the heavier engine I think I could still cook that set up....at least the piston seals...

The 340mm set up with a big cast iron sliding fist caliper & one piston is a joke....a 312mm 4 pot brembo is way better at heat disipation & braking & way lighter (reduced unsprung weight)...& the Seat Cupra R used to have this fiited years ago & it was an easy aftermarket upgrade for the Skoda Fabia VRS..

VW just upselling rubbish to get the most profit...

Several questions here: Why did he have to change all 4 disks and pads? Do the rears have directional vented as well? Even more, if his style is so brutal as to destroy them so easily, why the hell would he waste another  £1320 on under-perfoming items and not invest in a better setup? Doesn't make any sense.

I know UK has some really great drivers roads (I read about them and stare at them with envy at every EVO issue) but I doubt you can cook them so easy while driving "sensibly" at the same time. I can only speak for myself and well, 2 track days and 15,000km in and the brakes are fine. Several owners confirming they're more than up to the job on the road also so I gotta take the cooking proneness with a pinch of salt. I can appreciate everybody's style is different but a very good point was made a few posts back regarding driving fast, especially on a public road and it's nothing to do with braking hard but with rather keeping pace at an optimal level. Towing or transporting loads could be different.

Even if not the best out there, the 340mm setup hasn't let me down once yet on road and track and despite my pre-ownership temptations to invest in a better setup once I got the car, I have almost completely given up on the idea now as it just doesn't feel necessary.

[scanesare]

You have some brake cooling from start on the GTI, why not improve that and save the Brakes for no money at all?.

It is the heat that destroy the brakes, so think you will have an extra 1000miles on the pads with extra cooling for normal GTI driving on the street.. 

I am only saying I haven't experienced brake fade on neither the track or the road yet so I just don't see it as an issue especially from a braking performance and consistency point. Regarding the longevity of the brake pads, again I feel there should not be an observable difference since you don't usually go at or beyond the optimal temperature range on typical public road driving, where the extra cooling would have the chance to provide some benefit. And it shouldn't make any difference on everyday braking at all. Does that 1000miles value come from some test or review?

In the end, I guess for the price they cost it won't hurt having them on and you can probably worry less on a track but that's different than to say I actually need them because the stock setup has let me down or that I will actually save the pads from wearing out.

[golfdave]

Several questions here: Why did he have to change all 4 disks and pads? Do the rears have directional vented as well? Even more, if his style is so brutal as to destroy them so easily, why the hell would he waste another  £1320 on under-perfoming items and not invest in a better setup? Doesn't make any sense.
 

He went to the dealers & was quoted the £1320 to solve the brake juddering he had after the track session.....

he declined the offer & went to a specialist brake centre & got the existing warped discs pro lathe cut insitu on the car hubs....& just bought & fitted different pads (EBC yellow stuff).....discs were well within min thickness tolerance after cut

I'll leave the argument of driving style & cooking brakes, just that most people I know who really drive the cars on these roads always upgrade the brakes....2hrs of solid driving on these roads is worse than a track event...twisty as hell & up & down...go look at google for the A939 near bridge of brown, or c o c k bridge....or the ferness bridge.....or the lecht...