GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk4 => Topic started by: mk4_gti on 11 October 2011, 09:43
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as above...??
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Short answer = no
Going to need uprating :smiley:
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think the max is around 300-320. you just need rods.
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just need rods yea ok well need to have a quick think about those......hmmmmm......yea mite just do that ;)
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just need rods yea ok well need to have a quick think about those......hmmmmm......yea mite just do that ;)
that was a quick think :grin:
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my friend i want more power than 150bhp
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my friend i want more power than 150bhp
a remap will give you more than near 200hp. Have you tried that?
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you can run the agu on 350bhp, its been done but its just a matter of time before the rods bend
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I know birchy who built twin engine golfs built the polo with AGU in rear at 340bhp no internal mods.
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my friend i want more power than 150bhp
Remap it to 200 and see what you think. :smiley:
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The rods are the biggest let down, know one knows what they can hack. They have been out the window at various BHP's even around the 260 mark which is natural remap territory on a k04 setup. So it's a chance you take.
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my friend had a old ford escort twin turbo 260bhp from a 1.6 cvh engine no mods in side that was fine.300 bhp should be ok. :smiley:
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my friend had a old ford escort twin turbo 260bhp from a 1.6 cvh engine no mods in side that was fine.300 bhp should be ok. :smiley:
CVH has a strong bottom end, as already posted the weak point is the rods on an AGU
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my friend had a old ford escort twin turbo 260bhp from a 1.6 cvh engine no mods in side that was fine.300 bhp should be ok. :smiley:
CVH has a strong bottom end, as already posted the weak point is the rods on an AGU
Weak point of all 1.8T's!
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my friend i want more power than 150bhp
a remap will give you more than near 200hp. Have you tried that?
yeah have tried that with my last engine was running 240bhp but now i want to sit in the 300 - 400bhp mark or in the middle ;)
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my friend i want more power than 150bhp
a remap will give you more than near 200hp. Have you tried that?
yeah have tried that with my last engine was running 240bhp but now i want to sit in the 300 - 400bhp mark or in the middle ;)
Deep pockets needed in that case. :smiley:
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alll in good time my friend......atm im runnin a ko3s on my agu which still needs interior what bhp am i looking at with no remap?
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350 horses will be nasty on the front wheels. You'll pull your steering apart and probably tourque steer into another car or a kerb in the process.
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my friend i want more power than 150bhp
a remap will give you more than near 200hp. Have you tried that?
yeah have tried that with my last engine was running 240bhp but now i want to sit in the 300 - 400bhp mark or in the middle ;)
Very much doubt it was 240hp unless it was a remapped BAM / amk. 240hp is optimistic on a remapped k03s.
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Traction, ESP and a good diff will aid that, no way will that be controllable in the first 3 gears with that power (350), no matter how the dogs bollox you think you are with your right foot, you will be loosing acceleration potential and lap time whilst wheel-spinning out of bends into a barrier.
I was in a A3 AGU 1.8T round the 400BHP mark keep up with the new TT-RS (mapped) on the straights all the way, downside was it was uncontrollable below 70, even worse if you hit a bend
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Who was it mapped by and the only way I have seen 240 is with some nice advancing and fuel in the 101 Octane which was just pulled off in a AGU k03s
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Still an over optimistic dyno IMO. :rolleyes:
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Maybe he had a bigger turbo?
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Well R tech tell me a KO3s will run 210 with no other mods.
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So an airfilter, sports cat and exhaust will add 30hp? Better get one in quick!! :shocked:
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So an airfilter, sports cat and exhaust will add 30hp? Better get one in quick!! :shocked:
I'm pretty sure a remap is involved.
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So an airfilter, sports cat and exhaust will add 30hp? Better get one in quick!! :shocked:
that +
silicone tip
fmic
fuel pump
and maybe injectors
Fuel pump or injectors won't be needed. Maybe a 4 bar FPR. I know someone with all that and I think they are running ~225hp max. Water/meth injection is probably needed to get close.
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This is realistic reults you would see on a AGU Golf maxed out with a k03s!
Easy to get 230bhp ko3s on all 1.8T lumps, they max out at around 246bhp with wastgate clamped shut, I have never seen one go over 246bhp. The problem with AGU is the maf is maxed out with a ko3s at just over 230bhp and the IDC is running 98-100%dc but they can handle it all day long. With the maf and injectors maxed out your looking around 236bhp with the fuel around 12.6:1 which means a good fuel and very good charge cooling is needed to compliment the AGU/k03s and 230+bhp with this power you can have a 1.4bar spike to give around 245-255lbft
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my friend i want more power than 150bhp
a remap will give you more than near 200hp. Have you tried that?
yeah have tried that with my last engine was running 240bhp but now i want to sit in the 300 - 400bhp mark or in the middle ;)
Very much doubt it was 240hp unless it was a remapped BAM / amk. 240hp is optimistic on a remapped k03s.
well my last engine was a aum lumpif that helps :s
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Who was it mapped by and the only way I have seen 240 is with some nice advancing and fuel in the 101 Octane which was just pulled off in a AGU k03s
my last engine was a AUM lump but i cracked my head :( so then changed to AGU ;)
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my friend i want more power than 150bhp
a remap will give you more than near 200hp. Have you tried that?
yeah have tried that with my last engine was running 240bhp but now i want to sit in the 300 - 400bhp mark or in the middle ;)
Very much doubt it was 240hp unless it was a remapped BAM / amk. 240hp is optimistic on a remapped k03s.
well my last engine was a aum lumpif that helps :s
Yep just confirms it wasn't running at 240hp :wink:
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my friend i want more power than 150bhp
a remap will give you more than near 200hp. Have you tried that?
yeah have tried that with my last engine was running 240bhp but now i want to sit in the 300 - 400bhp mark or in the middle ;)
Very much doubt it was 240hp unless it was a remapped BAM / amk. 240hp is optimistic on a remapped k03s.
well my last engine was a aum lumpif that helps :s
Yep just confirms it wasn't running at 240hp :wink:
No it doesn't.
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ok im going to buy a photo copier and put my print out on here as no1 can belive me :huh:
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My agu is running 238.9bhp with a ko3s and a custom remap by r-tech and a few other choice bits so I think 240bhp can be done
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I've seen a European tuner get it to 260, but it wasn't standard at all with uprated cams etc... it can be done as I quoted earlier on just the MAF and injectors on an AGU are bottlenecks around 236, not sure how the AUM injectors are in comparison.
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Mine has standard injectors, maf, and fuel pump are standard as well
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I've seen a European tuner get it to 260, but it wasn't standard at all with uprated cams etc... it can be done as I quoted earlier on just the MAF and injectors on an AGU are bottlenecks around 236, not sure how the AUM injectors are in comparison.
European tuners use PS and KW torque values. So it would read higher anyway.
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Im reasonably sure there will be a 240hp readout on here soon..
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How about the heavily modded AGU k03s I was on about earlier :smug:
(http://img845.imageshack.us/img845/2902/img0034custom2a.jpg)
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What turbo? Looks a bit like k04 output to me? Also, looking on that dyno chart, the atmospheric pressure looks quite low, which will have the effect of increasing the engine output. That same car at 1000 hpa (atmospheric pressure) will have a fair bit lower output.
You can't compare outputs of engines, unless each car is tested on the same dyno, with the same conditions. It called the dyno lottery.
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Any dyno is a lottery, your figures will vary from time of day to time of year, that is a k03s on an AGU... he's got:
63.5mm exhaust
1.8 NA camshaft
large injectors
Forge cold air intake
Forge actuator (blue spring)
Stock K03s turbo
4bar FPR
Larger MAF
FMIC
Tested on Maha dyno, 100octane fuel, 25degree advance... and it's in a polo.
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If that's the case, there wasn't much point putting up that dyno plot, as it's outside the scope for the the everyday owner. Anything that can delay the onset of det, will give higher outputs. You could also add a 50hp shot of nitrous and get the same result.
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Its still on a KO3s and proven, you could add water injection and get some advance.
Its possible..
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We'll see what Chris gets out of a K03s on Wednesday
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What i'm more interested in wen its comes to AGU/k03s combos is why ppls torque figures differ so much so very similar setups?
theres loads of 220-230 BHPS once but have 250-60ft lb of torque? Then some with 238bhp only have 235-240 fl lbs? is the the dyno? different tuners? Just luck?
Rtech seems to get very high torqure figures? Is is it just cos he's the bollox? :grin: :wink:
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My K03S AUM made 230BHP 265 ft/lb at AMD.
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My K03S AUM made 230BHP 265 ft/lb at AMD.
for instance these fitures? 265ft lbs?!?!
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wasn't there someone in golf+ who ran 247bhp 285lbft with agu ko3s? :shocked:
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Sooooo many things to think about really.
Ill see what mine gets in the morning with the following:
k03s
AGU (recently rebuilt
3" decat downpipe
2.5" cat back to remus backbox with no center silencer
forge actuator (yellow)
forge 007p (yellow)
forge TIP
New N75 I think its a 'E'
2.75" ID MAF
Pipercross panel filter in stock oem smoothed airbox with 3" cold air feed
THS FMIC
calibra yellow injectors
No cams or anything else internally (its a stock AGU block with k03s) with just about every bolt on going :|
Looking at getting into the 240s
ran a 238 whilst lean last time on the dyno with stock maf and injectors.
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How you done so far Chris? Only thing I'll have different to you is a 2.5" decat rather than a 3"
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246bhp holding very nicely ad 266lbft torque. More to come just a slight missfire o sort out now. Report to come!
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Sweet mate, keep me posted :smiley:
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Well, all done now and on way back. Managed to make 248bhp and 297lbft torque limited to 277lbft to ensure things don't bend! Map is awesome and pulls and pulls from any speed/rpm. Will get graph up when I'm home/ scanned it in etc.
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Excellent stuff, I'll head up again once I get all the bits I need. What was the misfire down to mate?
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Coilpacks!!! probably on the original ones and they just couldnt cope with the amount of boost and more fuel to create a strong enough spark. Tried everything at first with the fuelling until we had tried everything and looked into hardware to see what it was. Set of 4 new coilpacks later (cost a pretty canny penny!!!) it was running spot on. Oh, the stock 1.4 pump was shagged aswell so got a uprated 225lph one in now I think it is.
Rolled away with 248.292bhp at the fly and 228.707bhp at the wheels. Torque is 277.27lbft @ fly and 262.75 @ the wheels. Did run more but had to run less boost in case of the rods going!
Such a lovely car to drive now. Pulls and pulls in each and every gear. Even at 40mph in 5th and boot it your soon on the 3 figure side!
Will get the graphs up in a bit, just need to scan them in!
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(http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l42/carsey2006/IMG_0077.jpg)
(http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l42/carsey2006/IMG_0078.jpg)
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roughly 300lbft torque...which is why we backed the torque down to a safer level!
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Oh yeah, doubt we could squeeze any more power out of this now. Unless we really wanted to push the turbo, but since its a daily, 250bhp is MORE than enough.
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Good result bud, doesn't look like your going to be far behind Wes :laugh:
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Its the result of many year tuning the AGU and k03s combo... first thing to do is try and find another tuner who will do a full custom remap on an AGU with ths same mods? phone them and email them and find out? The UK norm is to just use a generic stage2 map, or some tuners say stage1 with mbc to up the boost..lol I think I have spent over 500+hours mapping AGU k03s engines over the years, many many happy customer with proven result on other dynos.
The FACT is that you cannot get a K03s over 240bhp on the oem actuator, a forge unit is needed with yellow or blue spring and the mapping method is to get the boost to 21-22psi as fast and early as you can in the rpm range and hold close on 18.5psi until 5000rpm then taper the boost off at the top end so the turbo dont blow hot air. The k03s is never going to make and power at the top end of the rpm range as it aint up to it, which compresor maps show albeit to a "SAFE %" on paper.
Now lets let a little out the bag.. the AGU fuel mapping need to refined as if your going to draw some much air in at 3000-5000rpm the ecu will fuel in the 10s and even 9s, just search the forums for k03s/k04 AGU dyno plots vs lambda and you see what I mean, the mapping needs to set the fuel between 13.1:1 - 12.4:1 from when the turbo spools till the power starts to die off. Its hard to get the AGU to fuel in this manner as the part load lambda is based on load v rpm. A generic stage2 map would just over fuel and eat way at the power from such low rpm at such high boost. Once the fuel is spot on the timing then can be used to make power, which with the lambda being at 10:1 would have not real effect on power. The timing play a HUGE part in getting the power from a k03s AGU.
If the guys on club GTI dont like the idea of 240+bhp and they have the same spec1 car, I am willing to map there car and make it much quicker and give them the numbers above.... £FOC and not matter what other tuners maps on there. Then they can go to every dyno in the land to get it tested and logged.
I once was a doubter saying the k03s would never make power like this, there are many post with me making these comments...
Its only until I started to realise that the oem actuators would not do the job by holding the power in the mid range(they would spike to 25psi easy but tail off as the waste gate cracks open at 3500rpm)
I started to tune customers cars with the forge actuators, customer where comming back with there k03s AGU which we had mapped with the oem actuator, we fitted the forge unit and the car was night and day. Many customer here who have this setup.... BUT only a few of them have the correct fuel setup to go with is, the stock injectors run 100%IDC with around 225-230bhp and the lambda readings head north.
If the guys on club GTI dont like the idea of 240+bhp and they have the same spec1 car, I am willing to map there car and make it much quicker and give them the numbers above and VCDS reading to back them up.. I will do it £FOC and not matter what other tuners maps on there. Then they can go to every dyno in the land to get it tested and logged an post up there finding.
Chris what was your stock MAF reading with the map setup for the stock injectors?. :wink: 235bhp??
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Here we go. This is with stock OEM injectors, and OEM MAF housing. Fitted is a Forge Actuator and yellow spring.
(http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l42/carsey2006/MAFafteractuator.jpg)
If people really dont think actuator makes a difference, id even be prepared to go out and do logs with a forge actuator and stick a OEM actuator on and show the difference in readings. It really is night and day and probably one of the best mods going if you want to get high figures out of AGU k03s.
What you have said is totally fair and cant get much more spot on that that.....offering to map cars £FOC. I think people often fall into the ruthole of once a mapper sponsers a forum, they instantly become the best in the land and their results are gospel.
I have graphs here from the very first remap (even no remap on a stock AGU map with k03s) and you can really see the progression of the mods. The graphs literally speak for themselves. Shame I dont have a one of the 238bhp we ran on a stock ID" MAF and stock injectors :(
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those are very very impressive figures from a K03s, graph looks awesome too!
would the larger ID maf housing and c20let injectors work with mapping on an AUM/AUQ?
247bhp is an awesome result and looking that torque curve must be fun to drive
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No mate I think you can use S3 injectors, it's just us AGU boys have weedy injectors that hit 100% too soon :sad:
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agu K03s with Calibra yellow injectors, 255 fuel pump = 240+bhp and 290lb/ft torque is the way forward. Speak to R-Tech
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i ran 320 bhp without any problems on standard agu internals for 6 months
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no went forged internals now running 400bhp + plans to see 500 next year when i first started building mine i spoke to few different companys 1 being jabbasport who said they have tuned 1.8t engines for 10 years and ran 100s of cars at 300+ bhp on standard agu internals without any problems as long as its tuned properly (rtech)
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agu K03s with Calibra yellow injectors, 255 fuel pump = 240+bhp and 290lb/ft torque is the way forward. Speak to R-Tech
I love reading through old topics!
high 250s and ~300lbft will be coming in 2012 for my engine.....watch this space!
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my friend i want more power than 150bhp
a remap will give you more than near 200hp. Have you tried that?
yeah have tried that with my last engine was running 240bhp but now i want to sit in the 300 - 400bhp mark or in the middle ;)
Very much doubt it was 240hp unless it was a remapped BAM / amk. 240hp is optimistic on a remapped k03s.
(http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o39/yamz89/octaviaspec2customsetup.jpg)
Read em and weep :D - That's at low boost too. If you think that's hurting the turbo message Nick @ R-Tech and he will tell you different.
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I was told a ball point figure to expect around.240bhp From my auq 180 with
forge tip
3" turbo back non res exhaust
Forge actuator with yellow spring
Cai induction kit
FMIC
Uprated Recirc valve
Is that a bit ambitious??
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Nope, about right, all depends on the condition of your engine, actuator and if you have any boost leaks.
I run a AUQ in my Octavia vRS with the following mods -3" Inch Decat into 2.5" Piper system, G60/VR6 Clutch Conversion, Poly'D Dog Mount, Forge TIP, Pipercross Panel Filter, Pro Alloy Intercooler, R-Tech Stage 2 Custom Map (245bhp/250ftlb), Oil Catch Can, PCV, SAI and N249 delete
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Does anyone know if there is a reliable free flowing exhaust manifold for the k03s?
Also, in a nutshell....how much bhp can you gain from water meth?
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If the guys on club GTI dont like the idea of 240+bhp and they have the same spec1 car, I am willing to map there car and make it much quicker and give them the numbers above and VCDS reading to back them up.. I will do it £FOC and not matter what other tuners maps on there. Then they can go to every dyno in the land to get it tested and logged an post up there finding.
Is this offer still on?, I've currently got a custom code map and I'm sure it's affecting drivability on and off throttle.
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If the guys on club GTI dont like the idea of 240+bhp and they have the same spec1 car, I am willing to map there car and make it much quicker and give them the numbers above and VCDS reading to back them up.. I will do it £FOC and not matter what other tuners maps on there. Then they can go to every dyno in the land to get it tested and logged an post up there finding.
Is this offer still on?, I've currently got a custom code map and I'm sure it's affecting drivability on and off throttle.
As this was 2 and a half years ago I seriously doubt it.