Author Topic: Starting Issue  (Read 12917 times)

Offline paradisiac82

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Starting Issue
« on: 04 May 2016, 21:39 »
Ok, so the running problems now solved, time to crack on with the starting issue.
 
Basically, when you try to start it you can hear the starter motor try to turn over but it doesn't turn over. If you try for long enough sometimes it does turn over but quickly dies. But more often than not it won't even start.
If however you keep your foot on the accelerator 9/10 it does start, but, the revs sit at around 800-950 rpm (foot still planted to the floor) for a few seconds before the car revs. On starting a big puff of white smoke comes out and then goes, only get a single puff never a stream of smoke. The garage where I work says it sounds like when it starts the cylinders are delayed (think they said it starts on 2 cylinders then a 3rd followed by the 4th).
Also, until the engine is warm the car idles rough and you can feel a vibration through the car (juddering), nothing major but its definitely there. This seems to go, or at least is less noticeable when the engine is warm.
If the car is not left for too long between starts then it is easier to start, but you still need to press on the accelerator most of the time.
 
I have VCDS Lite (Registered), are there any blocks I can log whilst starting the car to see if it is a) requesting the right amount of fuel (without accelerator pressed) and if so, are the injectors getting the right amount at start (has been suggested maybe air is getting in the fuel system and pressing the accelerator is possibly shifting this quick enough to allow it to start). Maybe there is a block to measure cranking (although I have replaced the crank sensor it was with a second hand one, could this cause it?)
 
Sorry bit of a long and hard to read post, hope it makes some sense

Offline itavaltalainen

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Re: Starting Issue
« Reply #1 on: 04 May 2016, 21:50 »
Can you post a full autoscan of your car for starters and also include the engine code.

2019 Seat Leon ST FR DSG 135kW - eclipse orange - 23k miles

Offline paradisiac82

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Re: Starting Issue
« Reply #2 on: 04 May 2016, 21:54 »
Can you post a full autoscan of your car for starters and also include the engine code.

Quote
VCDS-Lite Version: Release 1.2
Sunday, 24 April 2016, 10:46:50:0


Chassis Type: 1J - VW Golf/Bora IV
Scan: 01,02,03,08,15,16,17,19,22,29,35,36,37,39,46,47,55,56,57,75,76
 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 01: Engine       Labels: 038-906-019-AJM.LBL
   Controller: 038 906 019 HH
   Component: 1,9l R4 EDC 0000SG  1578
   Coding: 00002
   Shop #: WSC 01271
   VCID: 64BB2F93E743
   WVWZZZ1JZ3W533686     VWZ7Z0C6988963
No fault code found.
Readiness: N/A

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 03: ABS Brakes       Labels: None
   Controller: 1C0 907 379 M
   Component: ESP FRONT MK60      0102
   Coding: 0019970
   Shop #: WSC 01271
   VCID: 341B9FD31723
No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 08: Auto HVAC       Labels: 3Bx-907-044.LBL
   Controller: 3B1 907 044 C
   Component: CLIMATRONIC     C 2.0.0
   Coding: 11000
   Shop #: WSC 01271
   VCID: 21356687B8D1
No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 15: Airbags       Labels: 6Q0-909-605-VW5.LBL
   Controller: 1C0 909 605 A
   Component: 27 AIRBAG VW51 01   0008
   Coding: 12855
   Shop #: WSC 01271
   VCID: 2237698BBDD7
1 Fault Found:
00532 -  Supply Voltage B+
            07-10 -  Signal too Low - Intermittent

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 17: Instruments       Labels: 1J0-920-xx5-17.LBL
   Controller: 1J0 920 926 C
   Component: KOMBI+WEGFAHRSP VDO V13
   Coding: 05414
   Shop #: WSC 00000
   VCID: 2A2781ABC5E7
   WVWZZZ1JZ3W533686     VWZ7Z0C6988963
No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 19: CAN Gateway       Labels: 6N0-909-901-19.LBL
   Controller: 6N0 909 901
   Component: Gateway K<->CAN    0001
   Coding: 00006
   Shop #: WSC 01271
   VCID: F093D3C3A3BB
No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 46: Central Conv.       Labels: 1C0-959-799.LBL
   Controller: 1C0 959 799 B
   Component: 1Y Komfortgerát HLO 0003
   Coding: 00064
   Shop #: WSC 01271
   VCID: 361FA5DB015F
2 Faults Found:
01330 -  Central Control Module for Central Convenience (J393)
            37-00 -  Faulty
00929 -  Locking Module for Central Locking; Front Passenger Side (F221)
            27-10 -  Implausible Signal - Intermittent

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 56: Radio       Labels: 1J0-035-18x-56.LBL
   Controller: 1J0 035 186 D
   Component:  RADIO SON         0004
   Coding: 01403
   Shop #: WSC 01271
   VCID: 263F759BD1FF
2 Faults Found:
00852 -  Loudspeaker(s); Front
            36-00 -  Open Circuit
00853 -  Loudspeaker(s); Rear
            36-10 -  Open Circuit - Intermittent

End   --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The airbag and central convenience modules have been cleared and not come back.

Car is a 2003 MK4 GTTDI ARL (PD150).

Offline itavaltalainen

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Re: Starting Issue
« Reply #3 on: 04 May 2016, 22:03 »
What speed does the starter get up to? [Use measuring blocks and log rpm, visualise with VAG scope]

PD engine, hm..... how many miles has it done?
2019 Seat Leon ST FR DSG 135kW - eclipse orange - 23k miles

Offline paradisiac82

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Re: Starting Issue
« Reply #4 on: 04 May 2016, 22:05 »
What speed does the starter get up to? [Use measuring blocks and log rpm, visualise with VAG scope]

PD engine, hm..... how many miles has it done?

179k miles, I know, very high mileage :(

By starter speed, which specific measuring block am I looking for?

Have checked the cam and slight wear on lobe but nothing major, has had new coolant sensor, fuel filter and glow plugs too.

Offline itavaltalainen

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Re: Starting Issue
« Reply #5 on: 04 May 2016, 22:57 »
I don't know which MB of top off my head..... but it's one of the first ones.

If you have full VCDS lite it has labels, so just have a look through them. You don't really need to know which ones they are with labels. :)
2019 Seat Leon ST FR DSG 135kW - eclipse orange - 23k miles

Offline paradisiac82

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Re: Starting Issue
« Reply #6 on: 04 May 2016, 23:01 »
I don't know which MB of top off my head..... but it's one of the first ones.

If you have full VCDS lite it has labels, so just have a look through them. You don't really need to know which ones they are with labels. :)

What will the label be called though, something obvious?

from another one of my threads:

Here are measuring blocks at idle that had readings. Can't see anything thats measuring the boost though.













does this help? obviously thats car running already not starting.

Offline itavaltalainen

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Re: Starting Issue
« Reply #7 on: 04 May 2016, 23:56 »
Turn ignition on, go to measuring blocks in controller 1 (engine). Starting logging a MB that has engine speed..... crank engine and see what speed it gets up to cranking..... PDs need typically around or over 200-250rpm to start properly.
2019 Seat Leon ST FR DSG 135kW - eclipse orange - 23k miles

Offline paradisiac82

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Re: Starting Issue
« Reply #8 on: 05 May 2016, 00:05 »
Turn ignition on, go to measuring blocks in controller 1 (engine). Starting logging a MB that has engine speed..... crank engine and see what speed it gets up to cranking..... PDs need typically around or over 200-250rpm to start properly.

ok will try that tomorrow, will try and use blocks 1, 5, 8, 12, 13, and 15? These seem to be the ones that give fuel readings (so will know if enough, if any, fuel is getting through without accel pressed) and the glow plug voltage (or are plugs not a likely cause? they are brand new)

Offline itavaltalainen

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Re: Starting Issue
« Reply #9 on: 05 May 2016, 07:41 »
Measure a single MB only to record starter speed, the more you try to log the slower the sampling rate. For starter speed check you want to have as high a sample rate as possible.

2019 Seat Leon ST FR DSG 135kW - eclipse orange - 23k miles