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General => Detailing => Topic started by: scanesare on 30 June 2018, 16:44
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Yesterday, I finally succumbed and bought a K4 Karcher pressure washer. Seemed like a big purchase but I calculated that was equivalent to the cost of 6-8 months washes by going to my local DIY wash station (that's how I sold it to SWMBO anyway) so it should make sense I think. Now a whole lot of questions came with it:
Half of the appeal of the pressure washer was the ability to use a foam cannon, I have been envying this for a while... But then I found out so much debate online on foam lances, and some of the most popular ones like Chemical Guys or Adam's cost around 1/3 of the actual washer's price :shocked: for what seems to be effectively a plastic bottle with a washer gun attachment (not referring to the actual guns that you attach to a hose when you don't have a p.w.). It seems crazy but maybe I miss something? I was thinking of sticking to OEM parts and getting the Karcher FJ-6 foam nozzle, i feel the "foaminess" is more a matter of the mix ratio and the shampoo than an actual ability of the lance/nozzle you use?
Also, is it possible, on not very dirty cars with sticking dirt, to just snow foam and rinse off without touching the car? I guess you would risk swirls when drying it (if there was still dirt that hadn't been removed) but isn't that the same as if you opted for hand-washing after?
And last one, do I need special snow foam shampoo in order to make sufficient foam or I can dilute my own normal hand wash shampoo? I currently use Meguiars Wash n Wax.
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Yesterday, I finally succumbed and bought a K4 Karcher pressure washer. Seemed like a big purchase but I calculated that was equivalent to the cost of 6-8 months washes by going to my local DIY wash station (that's how I sold it to SWMBO anyway) so it should make sense I think. Now a whole lot of questions came with it:
Half of the appeal of the pressure washer was the ability to use a foam cannon, I have been envying this for a while... But then I found out so much debate online on foam lances, and some of the most popular ones like Chemical Guys or Adam's cost around 1/3 of the actual washer's price :shocked: for what seems to be effectively a plastic bottle with a washer gun attachment (not referring to the actual guns that you attach to a hose when you don't have a p.w.). It seems crazy but maybe I miss something? I was thinking of sticking to OEM parts and getting the Karcher FJ-6 foam nozzle, i feel the "foaminess" is more a matter of the mix ratio and the shampoo than an actual ability of the lance/nozzle you use?
Also, is it possible, on not very dirty cars with sticking dirt, to just snow foam and rinse off without touching the car? I guess you would risk swirls when drying it (if there was still dirt that hadn't been removed) but isn't that the same as if you opted for hand-washing after?
And last one, do I need special snow foam shampoo in order to make sufficient foam or I can dilute my own normal hand wash shampoo? I currently use Meguiars Wash n Wax.
The ability of the lance nozzle etc makes all the difference. You will get the best results out of your snow foam of you use it in conjunction with a proper snow foam lance which gives you much greater control over dilution, spray angle, intensity, etc, and these adjustments make a huge difference to the application and thus the effectiveness of snow foam. And whilst they are not cheap, if you look after them properly (rinse through after use with clear water etc), service. now and again, they last years and years, so a great investment.
I know lots of people that have used the Karcher lance only to ditch it fairly swiftly for a proper lance. When they use a proper lance, they realise the massive difference between the two types.
These two are the best lances you can buy imo. Both are made by Italian company PA and are essentially the same lance. The Autobrite one is on offer at a lower price with snow foam.
https://www.autobritedirect.co.uk/index.php/exterior-cleaning/autobrite-direct-snow-foam-lance/autobrite-heavy-duty-foam-snow-foam-lance-magifoam-500ml.html
http://www.cleanyourcar.co.uk/washing-and-drying/foam-pre-wash/snow-foam-lance-various-fittings/prod_371.html
You’ll get much better results if you use a dedicated proper snow foam rather than using normal shampoo with it, they are a more concentrated formulation designed for use as snow foams in varying dilution ratios depending on your requirements, so it’s not as straightforward as just upping the amount of normal shampoo you use, which will ultimately prematurely degrade and strip your protection.
It is entirely possible to just use a touchless snow foam wash on a lightly soiled car, loads of people do that (I personally don’t as I always wait till I can do a full wash). But as you say, drying is the issue and that’s the stage of washing where there’s the greatest risk of inflicting swirls anyway. So I would only suggest a touchless snow foam if you either have soft water that won’t leave water marks; or are using filtered DI water for the final rinse; or you have a air blower to dry the car. If you are towel drying then the risk of swirls is something that should make you think carefully about it.
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I see your points, another case of buy nice or buy twice... As usual, the availability of most detailing items is not similar between UK and Sweden so in some cases i must find equal alternatives. The two products in your link cost almost double the price when shipped here so with some searching I came across this Dr. Dirt G1 snow foam lance that has raving reviews in a pretty big Swedish detailing online shop (not cheap either).
http://www.autodude.se/produkt/foam_lance_dr_dirt_g1/ (http://www.autodude.se/produkt/foam_lance_dr_dirt_g1/)
Video of it in action is pretty convincing too https://youtu.be/ZcJCEZlC9rE (https://youtu.be/ZcJCEZlC9rE)
The next question I guess is which snow foam given the options available in the same shop. The top two recommended products are "Pre-wash King Arthur" with a PH of 12 (advertised as safe for wax, is it possible?) and the ValetPRO Advanced Neutral Snow Foam with neutral PH and biodegradable. I am leaning towards the second due to its more ECO-ness and coat friendliness. Would you recommend one over the other?
Overall from your experience, do you find the pre-wash snow foam process a must nowadays? Is it a case of "I'm never just rinsing off dirt with only water again" and does it actually reduce swirls induced from hand washing and drying afterwards? Or is it more like a trend, something that looks cool and makes you feel nice? For years I've only cleaned my cars by first spraying water, then hand wash then hand dry so I just wonder how much of a difference all these new extra steps make.
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I see your points, another case of buy nice or buy twice... As usual, the availability of most detailing items is not similar between UK and Sweden so in some cases i must find equal alternatives. The two products in your link cost almost double the price when shipped here so with some searching I came across this Dr. Dirt G1 snow foam lance that has raving reviews in a pretty big Swedish detailing online shop (not cheap either).
http://www.autodude.se/produkt/foam_lance_dr_dirt_g1/ (http://www.autodude.se/produkt/foam_lance_dr_dirt_g1/)
Video of it in action is pretty convincing too https://youtu.be/ZcJCEZlC9rE (https://youtu.be/ZcJCEZlC9rE)
The next question I guess is which snow foam given the options available in the same shop. The top two recommended products are "Pre-wash King Arthur" with a PH of 12 (advertised as safe for wax, is it possible?) and the ValetPRO Advanced Neutral Snow Foam with neutral PH and biodegradable. I am leaning towards the second due to its more ECO-ness and coat friendliness. Would you recommend one over the other?
Overall from your experience, do you find the pre-wash snow foam process a must nowadays? Is it a case of "I'm never just rinsing off dirt with only water again" and does it actually reduce swirls induced from hand washing and drying afterwards? Or is it more like a trend, something that looks cool and makes you feel nice? For years I've only cleaned my cars by first spraying water, then hand wash then hand dry so I just wonder how much of a difference all these new extra steps make.
Sorry, I forgot you were in Sweden.
Yes the one in your link is a proper snow foam lance.
I can vouch for the ValetPro Advanced snow foam. I use it and ime, it’s the best snow foam, closely followed by Bilt Hamber Auto Foam. I’ve tried a few.
Yes I find the pre wash snow foam a must process to the point I do two pre washes. One with snow foam, followed by one with ValetPro Citrus Pre wash, but of course that’s my personal pref. But pre wash is, IMO, an invaluable method of touchless cleaning which leaves much less cleaning to be done at the ‘touch’ bucket stage. I’m not interested in ‘trends’, only in processes that have a measurable value to the cleaning process, and ime pre washing is one that delivers. But at the end of the day it’s your decision whether you want to introduce it into your current regime.
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Sorry, I forgot you were in Sweden.
Yes the one in your link is a proper snow foam lance.
I can vouch for the ValetPro Advanced snow foam. I use it and ime, it’s the best snow foam, closely followed by Bilt Hamber Auto Foam. I’ve tried a few.
Yes I find the pre wash snow foam a must process to the point I do two pre washes. One with snow foam, followed by one with ValetPro Citrus Pre wash, but of course that’s my personal pref. But pre wash is, IMO, an invaluable method of touchless cleaning which leaves much less cleaning to be done at the ‘touch’ bucket stage. I’m not interested in ‘trends’, only in processes that have a measurable value to the cleaning process, and ime pre washing is one that delivers. But at the end of the day it’s your decision whether you want to introduce it into your current regime.
ValetPRO it is then. There's two versions of them though: Advanced Neutral and PH Neutral, any idea why the two options? Which one are you using?
You sound very fond of the pre-wash snow foam and coming from someone who's tried so much stuff that's all the convincing I needed :wink: And since I'm going to be using a pressure washer from now on anyway, it does not make sense not to snow foam as I understand it. It's a small extra investment for a quality lance and snow foam but the whole process is quite fast. Probably 5min to cover the car, then leave it to work for 5-10? and then rinse off, not a big deal. Plus, on a car with minimal dirt (think mostly dust) it could offer the option of an express cleaning occasionally, something I could never trust doing before with just water or quick detailers so there are even more benefits to be had.
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Sorry, I forgot you were in Sweden.
Yes the one in your link is a proper snow foam lance.
I can vouch for the ValetPro Advanced snow foam. I use it and ime, it’s the best snow foam, closely followed by Bilt Hamber Auto Foam. I’ve tried a few.
Yes I find the pre wash snow foam a must process to the point I do two pre washes. One with snow foam, followed by one with ValetPro Citrus Pre wash, but of course that’s my personal pref. But pre wash is, IMO, an invaluable method of touchless cleaning which leaves much less cleaning to be done at the ‘touch’ bucket stage. I’m not interested in ‘trends’, only in processes that have a measurable value to the cleaning process, and ime pre washing is one that delivers. But at the end of the day it’s your decision whether you want to introduce it into your current regime.
ValetPRO it is then. There's two versions of them though: Advanced Neutral and PH Neutral, any idea why the two options? Which one are you using?
You sound very fond of the pre-wash snow foam and coming from someone who's tried so much stuff that's all the convincing I needed :wink: And since I'm going to be using a pressure washer from now on anyway, it does not make sense not to snow foam as I understand it. It's a small extra investment for a quality lance and snow foam but the whole process is quite fast. Probably 5min to cover the car, then leave it to work for 5-10? and then rinse off, not a big deal. Plus, on a car with minimal dirt (think mostly dust) it could offer the option of an express cleaning occasionally, something I could never trust doing before with just water or quick detailers so there are even more benefits to be had.
Read this for explanation of the difference between the two VP snowfoams.
http://detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showpost.php?p=4820614&postcount=4
I’m particular about keeping my paintwork as free from unnecessary swirls as possible - black paint is unforgiving when it comes to swirls - so touchless washing is very important to me as it massively reduces the risk of swirling the paint at the touch stages, the majority of the dirt having been removed at the pre wash stages.
Hopefully you will see the benefits of it too. :smiley:
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Read this for explanation of the difference between the two VP snowfoams.
http://detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showpost.php?p=4820614&postcount=4
I’m particular about keeping my paintwork as free from unnecessary swirls as possible - black paint is unforgiving when it comes to swirls - so touchless washing is very important to me as it massively reduces the risk of swirling the paint at the touch stages, the majority of the dirt having been removed at the pre wash stages.
Hopefully you will see the benefits of it too. :smiley:
That link helped. Was about to ask, why not go to the Advanced directly if it does what the Neutral PH does and more? And then remembered the 70% bigger price :tongue: Still it's a cheap expense so I'll be going with Advanced. Says 1:20 - 1:30 dilute ratios so 25ml in a 500ml mix, is that enough for one pass? (no idea how much you waste). Ιf that's correct 1L should last 40 washes , more than I do in a year so I don't need more than that.
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Read this for explanation of the difference between the two VP snowfoams.
http://detailingworld.co.uk/forum/showpost.php?p=4820614&postcount=4
I’m particular about keeping my paintwork as free from unnecessary swirls as possible - black paint is unforgiving when it comes to swirls - so touchless washing is very important to me as it massively reduces the risk of swirling the paint at the touch stages, the majority of the dirt having been removed at the pre wash stages.
Hopefully you will see the benefits of it too. :smiley:
That link helped. Was about to ask, why not go to the Advanced directly if it does what the Neutral PH does and more? And then remembered the 70% bigger price :tongue: Still it's a cheap expense so I'll be going with Advanced. Says 1:20 - 1:30 dilute ratios so 25ml in a 500ml mix, is that enough for one pass? (no idea how much you waste). Ιf that's correct 1L should last 40 washes , more than I do in a year so I don't need more than that.
I use at around 1:9 or 1:8 which is enough to give effective cleansing without stripping the protection unnecessarily. 500mls is sufficient to do a full pass.
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I use at around 1:9 or 1:8 which is enough to give effective cleansing without stripping the protection unnecessarily. 500mls is sufficient to do a full pass.
Cheers!
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The lance and shampoo have arrived and they very much do what they say on the box, although to get that pro level foaminess you need to work with higher ratios than the 1:20 advertised, more like 1:8 as you say, and I don't think there's anything wrong with the lance, it seems a sturdy, quality piece of kit, my buddy got a video of it.
So now that I got them, how should I be maintaining them in order to last long? Do I remove the metal adapter with the suction hose and rinse it off lightly with water after each use? Then store separately from the bottle? Do I just leave them assembled with the remaining shampoo mixture in the bottle?
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The lance and shampoo have arrived and they very much do what they say on the box, although to get that pro level foaminess you need to work with higher ratios than the 1:20 advertised, more like 1:8 as you say, and I don't think there's anything wrong with the lance, it seems a sturdy, quality piece of kit, my buddy got a video of it.
So now that I got them, how should I be maintaining them in order to last long? Do I remove the metal adapter with the suction hose and rinse it off lightly with water after each use? Then store separately from the bottle? Do I just leave them assembled with the remaining shampoo mixture in the bottle?
At the end of every use, with the lance attached to your pressure washer (bottle empty or detached), run clear water through the mechanism, to remove any remaining soap residue which can clog the mechanism if left to dry. It doesn’t really matter which way you store as long as the bottle is kept upright if still containing shampoo and still attached to the lance. Every now and then I soak the lance part (brass and plastic head) in a few inches of petrol which clears any built up soap residue. If you have hard water and are not using a water filter, them soak in descaler every now and then.
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At the end of every use, with the lance attached to your pressure washer (bottle empty or detached), run clear water through the mechanism, to remove any remaining soap residue which can clog the mechanism if left to dry. It doesn’t really matter which way you store as long as the bottle is kept upright if still containing shampoo and still attached to the lance. Every now and then I soak the lance part (brass and plastic head) in a few inches of petrol which clears any built up soap residue. If you have hard water and are not using a water filter, them soak in descaler every now and then.
Fair enough! Thanks
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I will probably end up with a pressure washer and foam gun, even a DI system if SWMBO has her way.
Can you please post a pic of your foaming system in action?
I woul dlike to see the width of the foam spray as it touches the car and the distance you keep the nozzle from the surface.
Many thanks.
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I will probably end up with a pressure washer and foam gun, even a DI system if SWMBO has her way.
Can you please post a pic of your foaming system in action?
I woul dlike to see the width of the foam spray as it touches the car and the distance you keep the nozzle from the surface.
Many thanks.
Sure, let me find (ask for) that video though first. The spray pattern is adjustable so it opens up and closes down as you like. I have set it so that the width of the spray is around 50cm I'd say and I am spraying from probably 1m away. It's also got to do with the mix ratio in the bottle. I went with 1:7-8 and it created quite a thick snow foam, maybe thicker than you need but it was satisfying to watch, especially for a beginner like me :grin: next time I will run it a bit leaner I think like 1:10.
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Instead of waiting for my friend to send me the vid, you can check out this one from Auto Finesse:
https://vimeo.com/246234642 (https://vimeo.com/246234642)
My results were exactly like in that video, thick, sticky foam that stays on the car for several minutes. It also makes sense to have a look at that product (AutoFinesse's or other UK based) as I think my foam lance (Dr.Dirt G1) is only sold in shops in Sweden.
Looking at the two lances closer (mine and the AF one from online images) I would say they are exactly the same (probably a copied design) so it's no surprise I got the same results.
Dr. Dirt G1
(http://www.autodude.fi/images/autonhoito/tuotekuvat/dr_dirt/DR_DIRT_FOAM_LANCE_2018_1.jpg)
AutoFinesse
(https://shop.autofinesse.co.uk/image/cache/data/Foam-Lance/Foam_Lance_export-web-10-999x562.jpg)
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Many thanks for the info.
I was offered a 'lesson' in using my new pressure washer by my Pro detailer.
He also supplied me with a foam gun which is the same design as he uses and it is ideal.
Being an engineer and looking closely at the brass body of the many of the foam guns its clear they are all from a similar scource, probably China, and would account for there no manufacturers stamp.
The nozzle and top seem to be of a nylon/graphite material and in regular use seem very serviceable.
The nozzle has a plastic vane which can be adjusted (and because the material is soft) it could be modified to suit the owners specific requirements, further inside will be a mixing chamber which will prove interesting to inspect.
The bottle thread is universal and accepts a huge range of commonly available plastic bottles (try some from the kitchen and see for yourself.
The pressure inlet has a basic thread and this is where the differences occur when a convertor is required to suit various machines (shades of phone chargers here).
Although my foam gun provides a lovely thick layer of foam I will certainly be dismantling the nozzle to see if it can be improved, if nothing else it will satisfy my urge to judge the quality of the moulding and machining and remove any flashes that may detach themselves and cause damage at sometime in the future.
Obviously foam is a blend of air, water and a chemical but Im inclined to think of the foam gun as a fancy cocktail shaker and as in mixing cocktails the slightest change in any one component can produce a complete disaster or a absolute triumph.
Happy cleaning :grin:
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Obviously foam is a blend of air, water and a chemical but Im inclined to think of the foam gun as a fancy cocktail shaker and as in mixing cocktails the slightest change in any one component can produce a complete disaster or a absolute triumph.
Happy cleaning :grin:
To an extent this is the case, but there is somewhere between complete success and abject failure. :grin:
Aside from your investigations, the best thing you can do to retain the best functionality of the lance, is to keep the lance mechanism as clear of soap residue as possible to Running clear water through after every use is paramount, occasionally soaking the brass mechanism in petrol works brilliantly to clear dried soap residue. Descaling regularly if in hard water area, and every now and then dismantling and replacing the filter guaze and reselling with PTFE thread tape. Loads of YouTube vids showing how to service the lance and all these things should keep it in good working order for years and years.
https://www.cleanyourcar.co.uk/foam-lance-metal-filter-gauze-pkg-1
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Obviously foam is a blend of air, water and a chemical but Im inclined to think of the foam gun as a fancy cocktail shaker and as in mixing cocktails the slightest change in any one component can produce a complete disaster or a absolute triumph.
Happy cleaning :grin:
To an extent this is the case, but there is somewhere between complete success and abject failure. :grin:
Aside from your investigations, the best thing you can do to retain the best functionality of the lance, is to keep the lance mechanism as clear of soap residue as possible to Running clear water through after every use is paramount, occasionally soaking the brass mechanism in petrol works brilliantly to clear dried soap residue. Descaling regularly if in hard water area, and every now and then dismantling and replacing the filter guaze and reselling with PTFE thread tape. Loads of YouTube vids showing how to service the lance and all these things should keep it in good working order for years and years.
https://www.cleanyourcar.co.uk/foam-lance-metal-filter-gauze-pkg-1
Thanks for all that Rebecca.
Having watched my detailer clean my car over the past 20months and having the entire process thoroughly explained I now understand the post foaming flush through and filter cleaning proceedures.
And more importantly why.
A couple of question;
Snow foam - will it harm grass? (That is if my brown lawn ever grows again :wink:)
My neighbour suggested I cleaned my car on the road - would this be legal? (the residue would be going into the storm drain of a Public Right of Way) :sad:
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Obviously foam is a blend of air, water and a chemical but Im inclined to think of the foam gun as a fancy cocktail shaker and as in mixing cocktails the slightest change in any one component can produce a complete disaster or a absolute triumph.
Happy cleaning :grin:
To an extent this is the case, but there is somewhere between complete success and abject failure. :grin:
Aside from your investigations, the best thing you can do to retain the best functionality of the lance, is to keep the lance mechanism as clear of soap residue as possible to Running clear water through after every use is paramount, occasionally soaking the brass mechanism in petrol works brilliantly to clear dried soap residue. Descaling regularly if in hard water area, and every now and then dismantling and replacing the filter guaze and reselling with PTFE thread tape. Loads of YouTube vids showing how to service the lance and all these things should keep it in good working order for years and years.
https://www.cleanyourcar.co.uk/foam-lance-metal-filter-gauze-pkg-1
Thanks for all that Rebecca.
Having watched my detailer clean my car over the past 20months and having the entire process thoroughly explained I now understand the post foaming flush through and filter cleaning proceedures.
And more importantly why.
A couple of question;
Snow foam - will it harm grass? (That is if my brown lawn ever grows again :wink:)
My neighbour suggested I cleaned my car on the road - would this be legal? (the residue would be going into the storm drain of a Public Right of Way) :sad:
Hi Mike,
Snow foam has never harmed my lawn and it’s had plenty on it. Especially on a windy day! :grin:
I don’t know about cleaning on the road as never had to do it. You might want to check with the Environment Agency, I think there are regulations around car wash businesses discharging waste water in waste system but not domestic. The concentration of shampoo/snow foam solution would be minimal and not very frequent from domestic car washing.
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Thank you.
Thats what I wanted to hear :grin: