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Model specific boards => Golf mk4 => Topic started by: mk4Martin on 02 March 2009, 19:51

Title: Mk4 1.8t VS Civic Type R
Post by: mk4Martin on 02 March 2009, 19:51
Pro's and Cons because I am thinking about getting a type R Face lift model 04 shape

Which is faster ?

Handles better ?

etc etc

Any body had experiences of both ?
Title: Re: Mk4 1.8t VS Civic Type R
Post by: Steve_PD on 02 March 2009, 19:53
Remapped Diesel MK 150 is faster, especially when going up a hill  :grin:
Civic wins on the handling every time
Title: Re: Mk4 1.8t VS Civic Type R
Post by: mk4Martin on 02 March 2009, 19:54
The 1.8t remapped I mean against the type R
Title: Re: Mk4 1.8t VS Civic Type R
Post by: Ivor Mk4 Turbo on 02 March 2009, 19:57
Standard v standard......................  The CTR wins on both fronts. :)
Title: Re: Mk4 1.8t VS Civic Type R
Post by: Ivor Mk4 Turbo on 02 March 2009, 19:57
ps  Why do you want to buy a bread van? :huh:
Title: Re: Mk4 1.8t VS Civic Type R
Post by: richw911 on 02 March 2009, 19:58
* Waits for JulesV6.......*
Title: Re: Mk4 1.8t VS Civic Type R
Post by: Ivor Mk4 Turbo on 02 March 2009, 20:00
* Waits for JulesV6.......*


Exactly what I was thinking! :D

That crafty user ID change doesn't fool us....................................................  :D
Title: Re: Mk4 1.8t VS Civic Type R
Post by: Wazzzer on 02 March 2009, 20:00
JulesV6? As in just bought himself a mk5 R32?
Title: Re: Mk4 1.8t VS Civic Type R
Post by: Tara on 02 March 2009, 20:03
I have owned both along with a DC2 and a DC5 and the Civic is a nice car which handles very well and is quick enough but they are very different animals.
If you want nimble handling and don't mind little Torque and all your power at the top end then the Civic is the way to go but if you like a more relaxed drive with less gear changing then go for the Golf  :wink: here is my old run out model which has the much nicer Recaro's :cool: but even though I also had a DC5 which was very good the best of the bunch was my Integra Type R DC2 :cool:

  (http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s99/TEGS_2007/NewCTR.jpg)
Title: Re: Mk4 1.8t VS Civic Type R
Post by: mk4Martin on 02 March 2009, 20:04
I sold my mk4 some time back and bought a Octavia VRS but now I want a mk4 again or a type R confused  :huh:
Title: Re: Mk4 1.8t VS Civic Type R
Post by: richw911 on 02 March 2009, 20:08
JulesV6? As in just bought himself a mk5 R32?

Yep used to have a CTR and hates mk4 golfs  :wink:
Title: Re: Mk4 1.8t VS Civic Type R
Post by: mk4Martin on 02 March 2009, 20:10
The main reason I am put of the civic is because I went on the owners website and their is a whole section on stolen TypeR's . lost of stories of been followed home and having their house broken in to for the keys also getting jacked at lights an petrol stations
Title: Re: Mk4 1.8t VS Civic Type R
Post by: richw911 on 02 March 2009, 20:11
The main reason I am put of the civic is because I went on the owners website and their is a whole section on stolen TypeR's . lost of stories of been followed home and having their house broken in to for the keys also getting jacked at lights an petrol stations

Some mk5 owners have had this trouble  :

http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=107737.0
Title: Re: Mk4 1.8t VS Civic Type R
Post by: jonnyturbo on 02 March 2009, 20:18
reason i hate the ctr is the location of the gear stick and i think the bucket seats look cheap
Title: Re: Mk4 1.8t VS Civic Type R
Post by: Wazzzer on 02 March 2009, 20:31
he's from the island lol
Title: Re: Mk4 1.8t VS Civic Type R
Post by: Ivor Mk4 Turbo on 02 March 2009, 20:32
reason i hate the ctr is the location of the gear stick


That's supposed to be one of its' best attributes! :D

Doesn't look the best where it is, though! :)
Title: Re: Mk4 1.8t VS Civic Type R
Post by: Ivor Mk4 Turbo on 02 March 2009, 20:33
CTR = Chavs wet dream, for some reason?? :huh:
Title: Re: Mk4 1.8t VS Civic Type R
Post by: nadlad on 02 March 2009, 20:36
civic would kill a mk4 anyday
Title: Re: Mk4 1.8t VS Civic Type R
Post by: Ivor Mk4 Turbo on 02 March 2009, 20:44
civic would kill a mk4 anyday


Any Mk4?? :huh:
Title: Re: Mk4 1.8t VS Civic Type R
Post by: (shakey) on 02 March 2009, 20:50
civic would kill a mk4 anyday

r you sure the lst 1 i seen was behind me lol  :laugh: :laugh:
Title: Re: Mk4 1.8t VS Civic Type R
Post by: Ivor Mk4 Turbo on 02 March 2009, 20:53
I take it he means a standard Mk4??
Title: Re: Mk4 1.8t VS Civic Type R
Post by: (shakey) on 02 March 2009, 20:55
o rite then the civic all the way then
Title: Re: Mk4 1.8t VS Civic Type R
Post by: RnP on 02 March 2009, 21:03
bro in law has a ctr standard and without even proving it i have told him its alot quicker then our mk4 in a straight line off the lights and even once rolling,

i still doubt once i get the r-tec stage 1 that i will be able to keep up
Title: Re: Mk4 1.8t VS Civic Type R
Post by: Max GTI on 02 March 2009, 21:19
One problem with the type R where is the VW badge and the german build quality.  :smiley: :smiley:
Title: Re: Mk4 1.8t VS Civic Type R
Post by: nadlad on 02 March 2009, 21:21
One problem with the type R where is the VW badge and the german build quality.  :smiley: :smiley:

yeah theres no rattles and annoying squeaks in  a honda
Title: Re: Mk4 1.8t VS Civic Type R
Post by: Steve_PD on 02 March 2009, 21:27
One problem with the type R where is the VW badge and the german build quality.  :smiley: :smiley:

yeah theres no rattles and annoying squeaks in  a honda

 :grin: :grin:
German build quality  :undecided: the Germans make stuff quickly and cheaply!!
Title: Re: Mk4 1.8t VS Civic Type R
Post by: sambo on 02 March 2009, 21:46
Completly differant cars. For a start a standard CTR is 200bhp VS standard golf 150/180BHP so without a remap, your gonna lose!

1.8t is far more tunable though (forced induction for a start) so the potential is there and with a remap the golf had the edge IME.

CTR chassis was designed to go round corners, golf was designed to sit on the autobahn i think! 

CTR is less refined, and as said has low torque, so need to have the tits ragged off it to go anywhere fast and also a driver who knows how to use it properly! (key point)

Personally i like the golf for the comfort, ease of driving (be it fast or slow) and near instant power at any speed in any gear.

If you just want to bomb around with a burberry baseball cap on, the CTR makes a good choice!  :grin:

Unbiased, Sam  :tongue:
Title: Re: Mk4 1.8t VS Civic Type R
Post by: richw911 on 02 March 2009, 21:50
lol @ sambo  :grin: :grin:
Title: Re: Mk4 1.8t VS Civic Type R
Post by: Rhyso on 02 March 2009, 21:52
CTR is less refined, and as said has low torque, so need to have the tits ragged off it to go anywhere fast and also a driver who knows how to use it properly! (key point)


very good point  :wink:

even in standard form in the right gear a CTR was no match for my derv - he had to drop a couple of cogs to pass me  :grin: :grin:

Title: Re: Mk4 1.8t VS Civic Type R
Post by: bobbarley on 02 March 2009, 21:54
Plus, if you get a CTR who'll be instantly classed as a chav, and we WILL disown you  :cry:
Title: Re: Mk4 1.8t VS Civic Type R
Post by: sambo on 02 March 2009, 21:55
CTR is less refined, and as said has low torque, so need to have the tits ragged off it to go anywhere fast and also a driver who knows how to use it properly! (key point)


very good point  :wink:

even in standard form in the right gear a CTR was no match for my derv - he had to drop a couple of cogs to pass me  :grin: :grin:




...and turn his blower to recirc, fit a gas mask to his face and put his fog light's on so other road users could see him  :drool:
Title: Re: Mk4 1.8t VS Civic Type R
Post by: Ivor Mk4 Turbo on 02 March 2009, 22:08
Completly differant cars. For a start a standard CTR is 200bhp VS standard golf 150/180BHP so without a remap, your gonna lose!

1.8t is far more tunable though (forced induction for a start) so the potential is there and with a remap the golf had the edge IME.

CTR chassis was designed to go round corners, golf was designed to sit on the autobahn i think! 

CTR is less refined, and as said has low torque, so need to have the tits ragged off it to go anywhere fast and also a driver who knows how to use it properly! (key point)

Personally i like the golf for the comfort, ease of driving (be it fast or slow) and near instant power at any speed in any gear.

If you just want to bomb around with a burberry baseball cap on, the CTR makes a good choice!  :grin:

Unbiased, Sam  :tongue:


Couldn't have put it better myself! :afro:
Title: Re: Mk4 1.8t VS Civic Type R
Post by: Ivor Mk4 Turbo on 02 March 2009, 22:10
bro in law has a ctr standard and without even proving it i have told him its alot quicker then our mk4 in a straight line off the lights and even once rolling,

i still doubt once i get the r-tec stage 1 that i will be able to keep up


My stock AGU with just a Jabba Stage 1 map saw off 1 standard CTR & also my mates lightly modded CTR.................  Just!!

I can't wait to come accross one now!!! :evil:
Title: Re: Mk4 1.8t VS Civic Type R
Post by: Ivor Mk4 Turbo on 02 March 2009, 22:11
o rite then the civic all the way then


Only if keeping either car standard. ;)
Title: Re: Mk4 1.8t VS Civic Type R
Post by: 16VWarby on 02 March 2009, 22:22
Ooh V-Tec...  :tongue: Had a ride in a dc2 'teg the other night, get it on cam and it woops my mates skyline, my 4mo barge has little chance, and the noise when that vtec kicks in made me want one.

And civics dont eat coil packs :lipsrsealed:

Still love my golf too much tho.
Title: Re: Mk4 1.8t VS Civic Type R
Post by: sambo on 02 March 2009, 22:24
No but front tyres instead, i've heard of lots of CTR owners moaning at what little milage they get out of tyres!
Title: Re: Mk4 1.8t VS Civic Type R
Post by: Ivor Mk4 Turbo on 02 March 2009, 22:27
And civics dont eat coil packs :lipsrsealed:


That's only because you've got the wrong 1.8 T Mk4!! :P :D
Title: Re: Mk4 1.8t VS Civic Type R
Post by: richw911 on 02 March 2009, 22:47
And civics dont eat coil packs :lipsrsealed:


That's only because you've got the wrong 1.8 T Mk4!! :P :D

Indeed my AGU is still running the same coil packs and MAF when i got it 5 years ago - 70000 miles later still going strong  :grin:  :evil:
Title: Re: Mk4 1.8t VS Civic Type R
Post by: Ivor Mk4 Turbo on 02 March 2009, 23:10
Me, too!!  AGU FTW!! :D


Although the MAF could be playing up.  :undecided:
Title: Re: Mk4 1.8t VS Civic Type R
Post by: dobber on 02 March 2009, 23:13
Civic all the way, owned 2 one modified a lot but not that you be able to see  :smiley:, also had the Integra DC5 , Mitsubishi FTO, Leon CupraR to name a few others. I would pick the Honda's over any other make i have had. Build quality is excellent, and performance out of the box is far superior. You have to chip the Golf to get it in the same area as the CIvic, if you drop a supercharger in th eCivic you have something that will all but keep up with an M3.

Golfs are nice but, how can i put this without being flamed. They are comfy :wink:
The CTR is crisp and sharp. Oh and the seats are FAR!!!!! better than the golf recaro's. Also the gearbox is one of the best gearbox's you'll have th epleasure of using.

I like and enjoy my Golf, i love Honda's and VTEC, sorry  :smiley:
Title: Re: Mk4 1.8t VS Civic Type R
Post by: Ivor Mk4 Turbo on 02 March 2009, 23:16
Civic all the way, owned 2 one modified a lot but not that you be able to see  :smiley:, also had the Integra DC5 , Mitsubishi FTO, Leon CupraR to name a few others. I would pick the Honda's over any other make i have had. Build quality is excellent, and performance out of the box is far superior. You have to chip the Golf to get it in the same area as the CIvic, if you drop a supercharger in th eCivic you have something that will all but keep up with an M3.

Golfs are nice but, how can i put this without being flamed. They are comfy :wink:
The CTR is crisp and sharp. Oh and the seats are FAR!!!!! better than the golf recaro's. Also the gearbox is one of the best gearbox's you'll have th epleasure of using.

I like and enjoy my Golf, i love Honda's and VTEC, sorry  :smiley:


No need to apologise.  The cars are built for two different markets. ;)

ETTO :)
Title: Re: Mk4 1.8t VS Civic Type R
Post by: snowfiend on 02 March 2009, 23:42
Ooh V-Tec...  :tongue: Had a ride in a dc2 'teg the other night, get it on cam and it woops my mates skyline, my 4mo barge has little chance, and the noise when that vtec kicks in made me want one.

And civics dont eat coil packs :lipsrsealed:

Still love my golf too much tho.

Really, what Skyline does your mate have ?

As for Civic Vs Golf....well I've only had my Golf about a month and never owned a Civic so couldnt say.
Title: Re: Mk4 1.8t VS Civic Type R
Post by: dobber on 03 March 2009, 08:16
Civic all the way, owned 2 one modified a lot but not that you be able to see  :smiley:, also had the Integra DC5 , Mitsubishi FTO, Leon CupraR to name a few others. I would pick the Honda's over any other make i have had. Build quality is excellent, and performance out of the box is far superior. You have to chip the Golf to get it in the same area as the CIvic, if you drop a supercharger in th eCivic you have something that will all but keep up with an M3.

Golfs are nice but, how can i put this without being flamed. They are comfy :wink:
The CTR is crisp and sharp. Oh and the seats are FAR!!!!! better than the golf recaro's. Also the gearbox is one of the best gearbox's you'll have th epleasure of using.

I like and enjoy my Golf, i love Honda's and VTEC, sorry  :smiley:


No need to apologise.  The cars are built for two different markets. ;)

ETTO :)

Hehe indeed they are. I got my first when they were first released. There was no element of chavness then. Its only since prices have dropped into the realms and means of the 'pikeyhood of chav'. Sadly happens to most cars  :angry:
Title: Re: Mk4 1.8t VS Civic Type R
Post by: 16VWarby on 03 March 2009, 09:22
Ooh V-Tec...  :tongue: Had a ride in a dc2 'teg the other night, get it on cam and it woops my mates skyline, my 4mo barge has little chance, and the noise when that vtec kicks in made me want one.

And civics dont eat coil packs :lipsrsealed:

Still love my golf too much tho.

Really, what Skyline does your mate have ?

As for Civic Vs Golf....well I've only had my Golf about a month and never owned a Civic so couldnt say.

R33 GTS-T pretty boggo, blitz filter and Trust cat back, but that teg wasnt modded much either, my mate said the VTEC was as vicious as his turbo and it pulled away lot better.

Still wouldnt get rid of the golf, just summat about em....
Title: Re: Mk4 1.8t VS Civic Type R
Post by: ben1.8T on 03 March 2009, 11:33
The old Type r is quicker than the new one but the new one does look cool. Just a shame they didnt give it more power.
Title: Re: Mk4 1.8t VS Civic Type R
Post by: dubber36 on 03 March 2009, 12:37
I looked at buying a new Civic in 2002 to replace my 1999 Golf 2.slow.

I only had to drive it for a few miles to know that I would'nt be able to put up with the hard ride, noise and peaky power delivery.

I bought a Leon Cupra instead :smiley:
Title: Re: Mk4 1.8t VS Civic Type R
Post by: ben1.8T on 03 March 2009, 12:43
I would also choose a Leon Cupra over the type R mate wise move.
Title: Re: Mk4 1.8t VS Civic Type R
Post by: Ivor Mk4 Turbo on 03 March 2009, 13:08
Civic all the way, owned 2 one modified a lot but not that you be able to see  :smiley:, also had the Integra DC5 , Mitsubishi FTO, Leon CupraR to name a few others. I would pick the Honda's over any other make i have had. Build quality is excellent, and performance out of the box is far superior. You have to chip the Golf to get it in the same area as the CIvic, if you drop a supercharger in th eCivic you have something that will all but keep up with an M3.

Golfs are nice but, how can i put this without being flamed. They are comfy :wink:
The CTR is crisp and sharp. Oh and the seats are FAR!!!!! better than the golf recaro's. Also the gearbox is one of the best gearbox's you'll have th epleasure of using.

I like and enjoy my Golf, i love Honda's and VTEC, sorry  :smiley:


No need to apologise.  The cars are built for two different markets. ;)

ETTO :)

Hehe indeed they are. I got my first when they were first released. There was no element of chavness then. Its only since prices have dropped into the realms and means of the 'pikeyhood of chav'. Sadly happens to most cars  :angry:


Even some mk4's are getting chavved up now. :cry:
Title: Re: Mk4 1.8t VS Civic Type R
Post by: dubber36 on 03 March 2009, 13:25
Yeah but CTR's come chaved up out of the box.

Have you seen those side skirts?
Title: Re: Mk4 1.8t VS Civic Type R
Post by: dobber on 03 March 2009, 13:40
Yeah but CTR's come chaved up out of the box.

Have you seen those side skirts?

Foolish boy  :lipsrsealed: :wink:

I personally think the Civic looks great, the ride is hard but it enables you to go round bends like a cart, lift of the power slightly and the tail kicks out. What it lacked was a LSD. The DC5 i had did have a LSD and that was mind blowing in the corners. 
Title: Re: Mk4 1.8t VS Civic Type R
Post by: scottyboy08 on 03 March 2009, 17:28
despite all people who drive CTR's are chavs etc. and golfs are built better the questions you asked about which is faster and handles better the answer to both of them is that the CTR does...
simple!
Title: Re: Mk4 1.8t VS Civic Type R
Post by: bobbarley on 03 March 2009, 17:33
Worth remembering though that you're comparing the top of the range Civic, with a not top of the range mk4.  A more fair comparison would be the top of the range R32, which would chew up the CTR and spit it out when it was done  :cool:
Title: Re: Mk4 1.8t VS Civic Type R
Post by: dubber36 on 03 March 2009, 17:36
You cant really compare it to the R32 cos that was alot more money new, whereas the GTI was more comparible on price.

As said before it is all down to personel taste.

The Civic may be faster and handle better than the Golf, but on the road you can only go as fast as you can safely see. Both cars will allow you to make rapid progress, but the Golf will make less fuss about it.
Title: Re: Mk4 1.8t VS Civic Type R
Post by: jonnyturbo on 03 March 2009, 17:59
good point bob
Title: Re: Mk4 1.8t VS Civic Type R
Post by: sambo on 03 March 2009, 18:18
The Gti isn't designed to be thrashed about though, just because people do it doesn't mean it was designed too  :grin: It's like the leon cupra R. That was designed to go fast, big brakes loads of power. The Gti is comparable to the seat leon cupra. Sporty appearance, comfy ride, bit nippy.

I think the biggest down fall with the mk 4 was there was no gap in between the GTI and the R32. This mean't either feeling let down by the 'out the box' performance of the Gti, or dig deep for the all singing all dancing R32.

If VW had given the mk4 a decent ECU map from factory, it may have been a differant story. (ie people not expecting more than what they got)

Also saying putting a charger on the type R is all very well, but spend similar money on the golf and your knocking on similar doors too.

JMO Sam  :smiley:
Title: Re: Mk4 1.8t VS Civic Type R
Post by: Ivor Mk4 Turbo on 03 March 2009, 19:16
Worth remembering though that you're comparing the top of the range Civic, with a not top of the range mk4.  A more fair comparison would be the top of the range R32, which would chew up the CTR and spit it out when it was done  :cool:


I don't really think the R32 would be THAT much quicker anyway! :undecided:
Title: Re: Mk4 1.8t VS Civic Type R
Post by: Ivor Mk4 Turbo on 03 March 2009, 19:43

I think the biggest down fall with the mk 4 was there was no gap in between the GTI and the R32. This mean't either feeling let down by the 'out the box' performance of the Gti, or dig deep for the all singing all dancing R32.



Talking standard here..................  Have you forgotten about the V6 4M?! ;)
Title: Re: Mk4 1.8t VS Civic Type R
Post by: sambo on 03 March 2009, 19:47

I think the biggest down fall with the mk 4 was there was no gap in between the GTI and the R32. This mean't either feeling let down by the 'out the box' performance of the Gti, or dig deep for the all singing all dancing R32.



Talking standard here..................  Have you forgotten about the V6 4M?! ;)

Yes... actually i had  :rolleyes:  , but even so it's more of a v6 cruiser than a hot hatch, IMO anyway...

Anyway the wood trim alone in a gti proves my point!    :grin:

Title: Re: Mk4 1.8t VS Civic Type R
Post by: Ivor Mk4 Turbo on 03 March 2009, 19:57

I think the biggest down fall with the mk 4 was there was no gap in between the GTI and the R32. This mean't either feeling let down by the 'out the box' performance of the Gti, or dig deep for the all singing all dancing R32.



Talking standard here..................  Have you forgotten about the V6 4M?! ;)

Yes... actually i had  :rolleyes:  , but even so it's more of a v6 cruiser than a hot hatch, IMO anyway...

Anyway the wood trim alone in a gti proves my point!    :grin:




They still left the wood in the V6! :D

Yup, deffo a motorway weapon...........................  CTR would still be quicker than that, though! ;)
Title: Re: Mk4 1.8t VS Civic Type R
Post by: gjroe78 on 03 March 2009, 20:16
the build quality of the golf is miiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiillllllllllllllllllllllllllllleeeeeeeeeeeeeessss better, the civic is very tinny but it is faster and does handle better it's all down to what you want  :wink:
Title: Re: Mk4 1.8t VS Civic Type R
Post by: Ivor Mk4 Turbo on 03 March 2009, 20:38
The build quality/plastics are a lot better in the Golf, but I'd say the Honda is probably a lot more reliable! :lipsrsealed:
Title: Re: Mk4 1.8t VS Civic Type R
Post by: bobbarley on 03 March 2009, 20:39
GTI is considerably cheaper...
Title: Re: Mk4 1.8t VS Civic Type R
Post by: sambo on 03 March 2009, 20:44
You can make a tough car faster, but you'll stuggle to make a tinny car tougher  :drool:

Honda's don't break down though, golf's are normally always broken  :grin:
Title: Re: Mk4 1.8t VS Civic Type R
Post by: bobbarley on 03 March 2009, 20:45
I know which I'd rather be in if (god forbid) a serious accident were to happen.
Title: Re: Mk4 1.8t VS Civic Type R
Post by: mk4Martin on 03 March 2009, 21:47
Thanks for all your replies.  :wink: some really good points made there. I think the CTR is also quite tunable. I here an induction kit gives 10bhp and sounds absoloutly epic! and a remap gives a further 10 and frees up the revs more than they already are.

The main thing for me is the handling. I found the golf even when I slammed it 50mm all round was very sluggish round the corners.

Basically I have about 6k to spend on my next car. Any other recomendations ?
Title: Re: Mk4 1.8t VS Civic Type R
Post by: Rhyso on 03 March 2009, 21:54
Thanks for all your replies.  :wink: some really good points made there. I think the CTR is also quite tunable. I here an induction kit gives 10bhp and sounds absoloutly epic! and a remap gives a further 10 and frees up the revs more than they already are.

The main thing for me is the handling. I found the golf even when I slammed it 50mm all round was very sluggish round the corners.

Basically I have about 6k to spend on my next car. Any other recomendations ?

S3?? 225bhp and 4WD?
Title: Re: Mk4 1.8t VS Civic Type R
Post by: (shakey) on 03 March 2009, 22:11
Thanks for all your replies.  :wink: some really good points made there. I think the CTR is also quite tunable. I here an induction kit gives 10bhp and sounds absoloutly epic! and a remap gives a further 10 and frees up the revs more than they already are.

The main thing for me is the handling. I found the golf even when I slammed it 50mm all round was very sluggish round the corners.

Basically I have about 6k to spend on my next car. Any other recomendations ?

S3?? 225bhp and 4WD?

that would be my choose s3 over them two anyday.

my m8 was tell me that his m8 spent about 3k on his ctr all on the engine and said it was a rocket its sounded like an areo plane when the vtec kick in.

but after a month the engine started to knock so is it as strong as you say sambo?
Title: Re: Mk4 1.8t VS Civic Type R
Post by: dobber on 03 March 2009, 22:28
Thanks for all your replies.  :wink: some really good points made there. I think the CTR is also quite tunable. I here an induction kit gives 10bhp and sounds absoloutly epic! and a remap gives a further 10 and frees up the revs more than they already are.

The main thing for me is the handling. I found the golf even when I slammed it 50mm all round was very sluggish round the corners.

Basically I have about 6k to spend on my next car. Any other recomendations ?

On my first CTR it had,

Mugen Airbox (had ITG maxogen on the second CTR which was better)
Hondata ECU chip. (More torque, bhp and brought the VTEC in at 4500rpm instaed of 6000rpm.
Lowered on Eibach springs
Spoon Manifold
Spoon centre box
Spoon N1 back box
18inch wheels
Earthing bonding

Loads of other bits too. To look at it looked standard, well apart from the wheels and it went like stink!, although it was far too noisy!

Horses for corses on what you pick. Both are very nice cars and whichever you choose you'll be happy.

Title: Re: Mk4 1.8t VS Civic Type R
Post by: Ivor Mk4 Turbo on 03 March 2009, 22:57
Was that a TPW earthing kit, by any chance?
Title: Re: Mk4 1.8t VS Civic Type R
Post by: dobber on 04 March 2009, 08:36
Was that a TPW earthing kit, by any chance?
Yes it was  :smiley: although i have made my own for the Golf
Title: Re: Mk4 1.8t VS Civic Type R
Post by: ben1.8T on 04 March 2009, 08:47
Will be cheaper to tune the Golf for big power. Im gonna get an S3 later in the year.  :smiley:
Title: Re: Mk4 1.8t VS Civic Type R
Post by: topher on 04 March 2009, 09:37
Thanks for all your replies.  :wink: some really good points made there. I think the CTR is also quite tunable. I here an induction kit gives 10bhp and sounds absoloutly epic! and a remap gives a further 10 and frees up the revs more than they already are.

The main thing for me is the handling. I found the golf even when I slammed it 50mm all round was very sluggish round the corners.

Basically I have about 6k to spend on my next car. Any other recomendations ?

slamming a car 50mm and c0cking up the geometry really isn't the best idea if you're after real handling improvements
Title: Re: Mk4 1.8t VS Civic Type R
Post by: Ivor Mk4 Turbo on 04 March 2009, 13:55
Was that a TPW earthing kit, by any chance?
Yes it was  :smiley: although i have made my own for the Golf


:D  I had one off him for my old GTi-6! 8)
Title: Re: Mk4 1.8t VS Civic Type R
Post by: AlanD on 04 March 2009, 15:09
I've never understood the VTEC system, to make any real progress you have to be over 5000 rpm, maybe more (never driven one) so to have any real fun it must cost a sh!t load in petrol. A tubby car starts having fun at 2500rpm .. . .  just dont see the point in it.
Title: Re: Mk4 1.8t VS Civic Type R
Post by: dubber36 on 04 March 2009, 15:35
I've only recently bought a 16V Mk2. I cant get used to driving that as it need about 4000rpm to get going. I'm used to my old 8V and my daily Passat V6 TDI where 3500 revs is plenty.
Title: Re: Mk4 1.8t VS Civic Type R
Post by: dobber on 04 March 2009, 15:55
I've never understood the VTEC system, to make any real progress you have to be over 5000 rpm, maybe more (never driven one) so to have any real fun it must cost a sh!t load in petrol. A tubby car starts having fun at 2500rpm .. . .  just dont see the point in it.

Actually fuel economy was very good concdering the revs. I love the high revs, its far more responsive to rather than waiting for the turbo to kick in. There is a fair ammount of poke before teh VTEC which on ht eCTR cuts in at 6000 rpm and it red lines at 8000. Change at 8000 rpm to keep it in VTEC and its an absolute blast. The Golf is the lazy boy. Put your foot down and your off so no real skill in driving. VTEC you have to work the car to get the max out of it but its so much more rewarding.

Give it a try  :smiley:
Title: Re: Mk4 1.8t VS Civic Type R
Post by: AlanD on 04 March 2009, 16:18
There is a lad on my street with the same shape CTR as the one posted, dont really know him well enough to ask him to drive it and if he asks to drive mine in return, well hes got two hopes of that :D
Title: Re: Mk4 1.8t VS Civic Type R
Post by: sharki786 on 05 March 2009, 00:10
mate of mine has a civic coupe VTEC VTI its mad!! lituraly its a beast. redline in 1st gear then 2nd after 2.5k rpms (i thinks) the vtec cicks in n the sound omg i myt cum  :grin: its awesom!!!! but thats vtec wa will the type r be lyk then? i myt b confused with the type r and vtech thing but tell u now its an animal thing  :grin: tbh the fuel econimy is gd!

eres a vid of how vtec works: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AcT_ZyY3F0k (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AcT_ZyY3F0k)

this is that feckin sexc sound of vtec: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GfToIocVpyQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GfToIocVpyQ) 21 secs into vid u hear the beast unleash its fury hahaha sound lyk a nerd  :evil:

now thats the sound id love in my gti3 ha. love to rape my mates car but not insured otherwise he giv me it  :cry: i myt be getin 1 but the wa bout the vr6 hmm gota thrape em n c, gives me the buzz

neway enjoy
Title: Re: Mk4 1.8t VS Civic Type R
Post by: Rhyso on 05 March 2009, 08:21
^^^^VTEC doesn't kick in until approx 5500rpm NOT 2.5rpm

the rest of your post i couldn't understand
Title: Re: Mk4 1.8t VS Civic Type R
Post by: dubber36 on 05 March 2009, 08:22
Its that bloddy text speak.

It might be quicker to type it, but it takes 5 times as long to read it :angry:
Title: Re: Mk4 1.8t VS Civic Type R
Post by: AlanD on 05 March 2009, 08:25
I have no idea what he just said . . .  :huh:
Title: Re: Mk4 1.8t VS Civic Type R
Post by: sambo on 05 March 2009, 08:32
(http://images28.fotki.com/v979/photos/8/892548/6145789/vicki_pollard_lead_203x152-vi.jpg)
Title: Re: Mk4 1.8t VS Civic Type R
Post by: dobber on 05 March 2009, 09:19
Translated, VTEC rocks!  :wink:

For the record in the new EP3 civic and the new its called I-VTEC. It cuts in at 6000rpm although if you have your car remapped you can bring in ht eVTEC at almost any rpm you want.  :cool:
Title: Re: Mk4 1.8t VS Civic Type R
Post by: Jkctr on 05 March 2009, 12:27
 :laugh:

Sorry guys i have been in amsterdam for a little break!

If you plan on modding get the Golf. I spent thousands on my ctr for 220bhp and 170lb/ft! It was very quick, i came across a few so called 220bhp mk4 gti's (i dont dislike the mk4 gti at all, i dont agree with some of the power claims from dodgy RR's) and i never had a single problem. Thats not to say it destroyed it, i pulled 1 cars lenght at the most (could well be i was a better driver; too many variables to consider on the road though!) The ctr will also leave a gti on corners. It isnt worth the amount you have to spend to be car length ahead though! My MK5 R32 is probly slower than my modded ctr was from rolling, i much prefer to go slower and sound better though  :laugh:

It is hard to compare the two, the ctr is great fun and makes popping to the shops a complete joy! It does wear thin though, mine would hit 8600rpm and had vtec come in at 4.5k rpm. This made it very quick and smoothed out the power band which removes the vtec kick (vtec kick is over rated and annoying!) so the car become more powerful and requires less down changes. I loved mine but after driving my mums MK5 GTI i new i had become tired of revving it so much. The thing that makes you fall in love is usually the thing that makes you fall out of love with it.

For me a car needs to be good out the box, then if i want i can mod it. The ctr ticked this box as its great standard, i made no changes for a year! After modding it and not getting far i needed something better out the box; the R32. The ED30 is better to mod (although FWD) but this wasnt the point for me!

The CTR's trump card is reliability, the leon is very poorly built which put me off. The CTR will rattle but bits will not fall off! The S3 is a good choice to consider but for me it was small and i wasnt a fan of the engine (in mk1 or mk2 form) The GTI mk4 is a very nice car, well built and comfy. A few hundred will see it as quick as a standard ctr but it will never be as fun on a back road or as exhilarating to drive.

Ignore the pathetic chav comments, the mk4 gti is one of the most common cars i see with rude boys driving it with audi A8 alloys, lexus lights and banging sound sytems! Clearly many of you have not been to london! I see as many, if not more chavved up mk4's; they are a few grand cheaper after all! If a cars image puts you of though you would have to be a sad person!

Test both, see if you can have a go in modded versions of each as well if you plan to mod.

Here was mine
(http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s131/Jules86dad/04052008220.jpg)

Heres a quick vid, it had been pissing it down so 1st is half throttle amd i change 2krpm early, i also let off at 90 (as the private runway was nearly over)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Em6ffFsWti4

Sounded ok to (that blip is launch control set at 4krpm so couldn't rev it any louder)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_HwuOGl6I8


Hope thats a bit of help mate, if a little long winded!  :shocked:
Title: Re: Mk4 1.8t VS Civic Type R
Post by: the_stink on 05 March 2009, 12:40
well just watched the vid, the accleration is pretty damn Rapid!!!
Title: Re: Mk4 1.8t VS Civic Type R
Post by: Jkctr on 05 March 2009, 13:03
well just watched the vid, the accleration is pretty damn Rapid!!!

For the amount it cost it wasnt really worth it, although i got nearly what i paid for my mods.

Exhaust, Induction and KPRO (ecu) came in at around £1900 fitted for a few tenths off 0-60 and a nicer noise (midrange was vastly improved but that would have been ahieved without other mods and just KPRO)

It is not a mod friendly car, no N/A is! A supercharger will see off M3's though  :evil:
Title: Re: Mk4 1.8t VS Civic Type R
Post by: northeast_gti-t on 05 March 2009, 14:25
^^^^VTEC doesn't kick in until approx 5500rpm NOT 2.5rpm

the rest of your post i couldn't understand
Agreed  :wink:
Title: Re: Mk4 1.8t VS Civic Type R
Post by: mk4Martin on 05 March 2009, 20:33
thanks Jules , sounds like you know your stuff. How much would a super charger be or the ecu remap? and what bhp and fuel results would I get ?
Title: Re: Mk4 1.8t VS Civic Type R
Post by: Ivor Mk4 Turbo on 05 March 2009, 20:39
thanks Jules , sounds like you know your stuff. How much would a super charger be or the ecu remap? and what bhp and fuel results would I get ?


Tried a CTR forum for your questions?! :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Mk4 1.8t VS Civic Type R
Post by: Jkctr on 05 March 2009, 20:58
thanks Jules , sounds like you know your stuff. How much would a super charger be or the ecu remap? and what bhp and fuel results would I get ?

Depends how well you want to do it? When you start adding clutches, LSD, brakes etc you can be looking at about £6-10k. A 2nd hand charger will save you a few grand.

You can expect around 300bhp.

Your best bet is to get one already done!

http://pistonheads.co.uk/sales/846801.htm

As Ivor said though a type-r forum will be your best bet for more info. Im on civictype-r.co.uk as jules86  :wink:
Title: Re: Mk4 1.8t VS Civic Type R
Post by: richw911 on 05 March 2009, 20:59
thanks Jules , sounds like you know your stuff. How much would a super charger be or the ecu remap? and what bhp and fuel results would I get ?

Depends how well you want to do it? When you start adding clutches, LSD, brakes etc you can be looking at about £6-10k. A 2nd hand charger will save you a few grand.

You can expect around 300bhp.

Your best bet is to get one already done!

http://pistonheads.co.uk/sales/846801.htm

As Ivor said though a type-r forum will be your best bet for more info. Im on civictype-r.co.uk as jules86  :wink:

Or get a MK5 GTI  :wink:
Title: Re: Mk4 1.8t VS Civic Type R
Post by: Jkctr on 05 March 2009, 21:04
You will need an ED30 with 330BHP to keep up with a ctr with 300bhp as the bhp/ton would then be identical.
Title: Re: Mk4 1.8t VS Civic Type R
Post by: richw911 on 05 March 2009, 21:08
You will need an ED30 with 330BHP to keep up with a ctr with 300bhp as the bhp/ton would then be identical.

Or as you would say just buy a subaru or evo  :wink:
Title: Re: Mk4 1.8t VS Civic Type R
Post by: Ivor Mk4 Turbo on 05 March 2009, 21:28
You will need an ED30 with 330BHP to keep up with a ctr with 300bhp as the bhp/ton would then be identical.


What about gearing & drag coefficients??
Title: Re: Mk4 1.8t VS Civic Type R
Post by: Rhyso on 05 March 2009, 21:30
this thread still going  :huh:
Title: Re: Mk4 1.8t VS Civic Type R
Post by: Jkctr on 05 March 2009, 22:22
You will need an ED30 with 330BHP to keep up with a ctr with 300bhp as the bhp/ton would then be identical.


What about gearing & drag coefficients??
.....and the driver, weather, tyre pressure, tyre tread, amount of fuel in the tank, which was most recently serviced, temperature, altitude, fuel ron etc etc

Lots of variables, the only definitive example would be which has more power, as it then would be much more probable to win over the lesser powered car.

You will need an ED30 with 330BHP to keep up with a ctr with 300bhp as the bhp/ton would then be identical.

Or as you would say just buy a subaru or evo  :wink:

Yeah buying a fast car out the box would be a much better choice. If i want to get from a-b as quickly as i can without losing the roof and body panels (i.e. ariel atom) i will buy an evo, not a modified hatch that was originally built to get to the shops and back while having a bit of fun.

this thread still going  :huh:

A rhetorical question, no? Even if it wasnt you posting would bump it and therefore it would still be going  :laugh: Its like sending the terminator back, but if they didnt there would never have been a terminator so technically its never been built for the future to send it back as the future has not yet happened for it to travel back   :laugh: :lipsrsealed: :sick: :undecided:
Title: Re: Mk4 1.8t VS Civic Type R
Post by: Rhyso on 05 March 2009, 22:25
this thread still going  :huh:

A rhetorical question, no? Even if it wasnt you posting would bump it and therefore it would still be going  :laugh: Its like sending the terminator back, but if they didnt there would never have been a terminator so technically its never been built for the future to send it back as the future has not yet happened for it to travel back   :laugh: :lipsrsealed: :sick: :undecided:

yebut i got the power to lock it

this debate has been done to death

DERV wins

VTECH sucks

Golf FTW

Good night