GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk3 => Golf mk3 how to guides + info => Topic started by: Bellend on 07 February 2011, 16:10
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If your car is knocking, driving a bit odd and you suspect it could be top mounts, jack the car up and put a lever under the wheel and puch it up and down. If there is play in the top mount and it's moving about they are gone.
Get yourself some decent ones. Febi, Lemforder or just go to the dealer. Don't do cheap ones fgs I killed some in 1300 miles! :shocked:
Get the bearings too but they normally come with them.
(http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t265/JoshoRey/IMAG0555.jpg)
Step one: Removing the shock:
Park it up, open the bonnet and undo the top mounts.
(http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t265/JoshoRey/IMAG0556.jpg)
THE EASIEST ways to do this are go and buy yourself a deep socket to fit. Mine are 22mm but I think stock they are 24mm. Try to find one with a flat head, like a spark plug spanner. They are out there, or you could file the sides down like I now have. Or you can use deep swan neck spanners like
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/315T7LXkLwL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
(Thanks Javalin) and one of these:
(http://thumbs1.ebaystatic.com/pict/2904627426486464_1.jpg[/url:
Then buy an allen key socket to fit. Could someone confirm the standard size? Mine was 6mm.
I had neither, got desperate and did this:
[img width=479 height=800]http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t265/JoshoRey/IMAG0557.jpg)
Jack the car up (somehow :grin:) and put it on a stand on the subframe or something but NOT the wishbone.
(http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t265/JoshoRey/IMAG0558.jpg)
Undo the two 18mm bolts and nuts and remove:
(http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t265/JoshoRey/IMAG0559.jpg)
(http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t265/JoshoRey/IMAG0561.jpg)
Undo this while holding the shock:
(http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t265/JoshoRey/IMAG0564.jpg)
Now you can take it out:
(http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t265/JoshoRey/IMAG0565.jpg)
Step two coming up in a bit but the lack of a 22mm deep socket and allen key has got me stuck.
STEP TWO: - Changing the mounts & bearing:
Pull the top mount off, it'll just come off:
(http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t265/JoshoRey/IMAG0566.jpg)
Now undo the 22/24mm nut on the strut. WARNING. Mine are coilovers. Therefore all I did was wind them down and there was no pressure. If you have standard or even lowering springs you could need spring compressors. If you loosen this without them the nut will fly off, you will injure your self and won't get it back together.
If your spring is loose, you are fine, if it is under pressure and is tight you need some spring compressors:
(http://www.comparestoreprices.co.uk/images/sy/sykes-pickavant-coil-spring-compressor-screw.jpg)
Mine were a right fatherless son to undo, amazingly tight but in true Danny Monday style, we suceeded first one I hacksawed through the bearing carefully, second time:
(http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t265/JoshoRey/IMAG0568.jpg)
Take the bearing off:
(http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t265/JoshoRey/IMAG0569.jpg)
I now took the time to take the springs out and wire brush then re copper grease all the threads.
But put the new bearing on and put the nut back on (look at that arm :drool:):
(http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t265/JoshoRey/IMAG0570.jpg)
Pop the new mount on:
(http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t265/JoshoRey/IMAG0571.jpg)
Pop it back in the strut tower:
(http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t265/JoshoRey/IMAG0572.jpg)
Then put the two 18mms back in, if you put them both in then pull the strut towards you as you tighten them, this will give you 0 camber.
(http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t265/JoshoRey/IMAG0573.jpg)
Still not finished yet, will update in a bit just finishing the other side. This only takes an hour with the right tools, two maybe if you've never done them before.
But the next step is to tighten up the top 22mm up nearly all the way, then put the wheel back on, put the car to the ground and tighten it up, then tighten it with the allen key in the middle.
Drive it round for about 20 miles then get it tracked.
Finished:
(http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t265/JoshoRey/IMAG0581.jpg)
Ignore the missing cambelt cover.
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I think mine have gone I have knocking when steering :( I'm gonna do them but I don't understand how to take them off do I need to mod the socket to use a spanner on it the allen key through the middle?? I don't wanna start and not be able to finish lol. :)
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Will a 22mm box spanner not do it?
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best way is to get the right sized (24mm??) "deep offset" ring spanner, and a 7mm (?) I think allen key. If it is the 7mm one, either use one on a socket set, or halford sell a 7mm one with long blue handle for doing vw brake calipers. Deep spanners - i.e. - http://www.amazon.co.uk/DRAPER-EXPERT-HI-TORQ-SPANNER-DRAP64607/dp/B001FCQVSM (http://www.amazon.co.uk/DRAPER-EXPERT-HI-TORQ-SPANNER-DRAP64607/dp/B001FCQVSM)
(brake 7mm allen key link - http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/7MM-BRAKE-PAD-KEY-HANDLE-BMW-FORD-VW-AUDI-/300394539580?pt=UK_Hand_Tools_Equipment&hash=item45f0e8ea3c (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/7MM-BRAKE-PAD-KEY-HANDLE-BMW-FORD-VW-AUDI-/300394539580?pt=UK_Hand_Tools_Equipment&hash=item45f0e8ea3c))
Then its easy. Ignore the haynes manual when it says you need a special tool - I got one and its the mk2 tool. Doh. :-(
(edit -> Or get poly ones - http://www.floflex.co.uk (http://www.floflex.co.uk))
J
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best way is to get the right sized (24mm??) "deep offset" ring spanner, and a 7mm (?) I think allen key. If it is the 7mm one, either use one on a socket set, or halford sell a 7mm one with long blue handle for doing vw brake calipers. Deep spanners - i.e. - http://www.amazon.co.uk/DRAPER-EXPERT-HI-TORQ-SPANNER-DRAP64607/dp/B001FCQVSM (http://www.amazon.co.uk/DRAPER-EXPERT-HI-TORQ-SPANNER-DRAP64607/dp/B001FCQVSM)
Then its easy. Ignore the haynes manual when it says you need a special tool - I got one and its the mk2 tool. Doh. :-(
J
Thanks man just looked and there is play will standard ones be ok for coils or should I get better ones?? Top mounts***
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best way is to get the right sized (24mm??) "deep offset" ring spanner, and a 7mm (?) I think allen key. If it is the 7mm one, either use one on a socket set, or halford sell a 7mm one with long blue handle for doing vw brake calipers. Deep spanners - i.e. - http://www.amazon.co.uk/DRAPER-EXPERT-HI-TORQ-SPANNER-DRAP64607/dp/B001FCQVSM (http://www.amazon.co.uk/DRAPER-EXPERT-HI-TORQ-SPANNER-DRAP64607/dp/B001FCQVSM)
(brake 7mm allen key link - http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/7MM-BRAKE-PAD-KEY-HANDLE-BMW-FORD-VW-AUDI-/300394539580?pt=UK_Hand_Tools_Equipment&hash=item45f0e8ea3c (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/7MM-BRAKE-PAD-KEY-HANDLE-BMW-FORD-VW-AUDI-/300394539580?pt=UK_Hand_Tools_Equipment&hash=item45f0e8ea3c))
Then its easy. Ignore the haynes manual when it says you need a special tool - I got one and its the mk2 tool. Doh. :-(
(edit -> Or get poly ones - http://www.floflex.co.uk (http://www.floflex.co.uk))
only for mk1 & mk2 Golfs.
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Updated.
I'm not used to all this on the road/drive work.
I'm too spoilt with working at a garage, quick air gun here and there are it's done. :grin: :smug: :tongue:
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Just a pointer. You don't need to take the strut off to change them Ans ruin you wheel alignment. Also the way you have the bearing on is wrong. You should put the bearing on, then the top mount. Then there is a special nut that holds the top mount onto the bearing and also holds the spring down. The top mount shouldn't just come off.
Then goes the top cap once you fit it back into the structure housing and the top nut.
Its a common mistake that people make with coilovers because they don't come with instructions.
You can fit top mounts without removing strut especially on coilover due there not being much force on the spring. Also negates the use of spring compressors. You can use a trolley jack to raise the wishbone to compress the spring whilst you remove the top mount nut. Then let the lack down, remove mount and bearing. Then replace.
I've done it many times like this but may not be as simple if you have standard shocks and springs.
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Cheers, confused now? :huh:
There is a plate holding the spring down, bearing nut, then top mount sits on the bearing.
It's how the old suspension came off.......??
Cheers tho.
Fair tip with the spring compressing.
I'd always get the alignment checked anyway, but then I suppose I get it cheap through trade.
Plus mine was out. :lipsrsealed:
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(http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff159/_redders_/Untitled-4.jpg)
:smiley:
That's exactly how mine is.
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Look at the top mount there is a ridge in the middle. This is so the special nut shoulder can hold the mount on the bearing. This will also cause extra movement on the mount also. Look how an original strut is put together.
Most people throw the nuts away when they shouldn't.
The nut you get with the coilover is a replacement top nut only.
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I see fair enough. It was lowered (apparently by a garage) when I bought the car.
The new coilovers came with two nuts each. I'll have to try and sorce some then. :undecided:
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Garages don't always do jobs properly. :wink:
I think the nut pn is
Special Nut: 1HO 412 365a x2
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Hi guys, this is a really TOP thread! Well done for this, as it is something I will be attempting in the near future - would it be possible though for someone to update that diagram that Bellend posted if it is incorrect or in the wrong order?! Just so I dont get confused when the time comes.. :nerd:
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Hi guys, this is a really TOP thread! Well done for this, as it is something I will be attempting in the near future - would it be possible though for someone to update that diagram that Bellend posted if it is incorrect or in the wrong order?! Just so I dont get confused when the time comes.. :nerd:
I think I see what he's saying, right order but wrong nut?
It's a shoulder nut on the bearing so that it holds the rubber on yea?
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Just a pointer. You don't need to take the strut off to change them Ans ruin you wheel alignment. Also the way you have the bearing on is wrong. You should put the bearing on, then the top mount. Then there is a special nut that holds the top mount onto the bearing and also holds the spring down. The top mount shouldn't just come off.
Then goes the top cap once you fit it back into the structure housing and the top nut.
Its a common mistake that people make with coilovers because they don't come with instructions.
You can fit top mounts without removing strut especially on coilover due there not being much force on the spring. Also negates the use of spring compressors. You can use a trolley jack to raise the wishbone to compress the spring whilst you remove the top mount nut. Then let the lack down, remove mount and bearing. Then replace.
I've done it many times like this but may not be as simple if you have standard shocks and springs.
This sounds quite easy like this so do I use a normal jack the a trolley jack?? When the wishbone is jacked up should the top nut just undo?? I am stumped :s
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Never use a normal jack! The car should be on an axle stand. You then jack under the wishbone to compress the spring. You will still need to use allen key and spanner to undo the two nuts.
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(http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff159/_redders_/Untitled-4.jpg)
:smiley:
That's exactly how mine is.
Sorry to dig thread up, but is this the correct order or should the cap bolt go on top of the Top mount? So it holds it on?
Cheers
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That pic is wrong. The "cap nut" goes above the top mount.
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That pic is wrong. The "cap nut" goes above the top mount.
Thought so! Was Just checking! I've read a lot of stuff about suspension, it's done my head in, hopefully the kit will be on on wed, assuming me and my mate manage it, lol, it's cos it's a mk2 kit so have now ordered the early springplate, bearing, nut, so I can use my mk3 topmounts, then I will change to vr ones at some point.. Just praying the top nuts play nice :)
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Just a pointer. You don't need to take the strut off to change them Ans ruin you wheel alignment. Also the way you have the bearing on is wrong. You should put the bearing on, then the top mount. Then there is a special nut that holds the top mount onto the bearing and also holds the spring down. The top mount shouldn't just come off.
Then goes the top cap once you fit it back into the structure housing and the top nut.
Its a common mistake that people make with coilovers because they don't come with instructions.
You can fit top mounts without removing strut especially on coilover due there not being much force on the spring. Also negates the use of spring compressors. You can use a trolley jack to raise the wishbone to compress the spring whilst you remove the top mount nut. Then let the lack down, remove mount and bearing. Then replace.
I've done it many times like this but may not be as simple if you have standard shocks and springs.
This sounds quite easy like this so do I use a normal jack the a trolley jack?? When the wishbone is jacked up should the top nut just undo?? I am stumped :s
Note: me searching lol.
Basically i need to change the rubber cap as mine have warn out but bearing is fine, am i right in thinking i can just jack my car up put it on axle stands take the top bolt off then put my arm up in the wheel arch and take the rubber cap off and replace it? (skipping the trolley jack on wishbone part as i'm not changing the bearing) with out having to take out my whole suspension and messing my Wheel alignment up? if so result as just got the alignment and cambers done.
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Well in theory that should work, could get a bit fidaly tho
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Rubber cap? You mean the top mount? No you still need the jack on the wishbone. The top mount is held in by the nut.
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Well in theory that should work, could get a bit fidaly tho
Thanks don't mind fidaly as long as i dont mess my alignment up lol. fingers cross it don't rail. car making a clonking noise and i was to see if its that rubber cap thing warn out. before i go messing with anything else. Thanks for fast response.
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Rubber cap? You mean the top mount? No you still need the jack on the wishbone. The top mount is held in by the nut.
i though top mount were under the Rubber cap but people just call the rubber cap top mounts.. anyways the top mount (rubber caps) just slide of i believe you only need to compress the strut if your replacing the bearing? as thats why you undo the bolt to get to the bearing? (well thats how it is on my original suspension) different on coilovers?
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Rubber cap? You mean the top mount? No you still need the jack on the wishbone. The top mount is held in by the nut.
i though top mount were under the Rubber cap but people just call the rubber cap top mounts.. anyways the top mount (rubber caps) just slide of i believe you only need to compress the strut if your replacing the bearing? as thats why you undo the bolt to get to the bearing? (well thats how it is on my original suspension) different on coilovers?
That must be because you have put them back on wrong! The top mount should be held on securely with a special nut.
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Rubber cap? You mean the top mount? No you still need the jack on the wishbone. The top mount is held in by the nut.
i though top mount were under the Rubber cap but people just call the rubber cap top mounts.. anyways the top mount (rubber caps) just slide of i believe you only need to compress the strut if your replacing the bearing? as thats why you undo the bolt to get to the bearing? (well thats how it is on my original suspension) different on coilovers?
That must be because you have put them back on wrong! The top mount should be held on securely with a special nut.
oh right but they were original suspension in my shed that iv not done anything to, just back a few pages on this says the top mounts slide of so i went and tried and sure enough they do. well confused now lol.
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And that's because most people put them on wrong. :wink:
RULE:Top mount is held on with a special shaped nut. Not a normal nut. Otherwise it just slips off and it shouldn't.
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And that's because most people put them on wrong. :wink:
RULE:Top mount is held on with a special shaped nut. Not a normal nut. Otherwise it just slips off and it shouldn't.
ah i see now, just got the other one and yeah it wont come off by pulling it. thanks saved me from messing up there.
any idea if i go to a garage and ask them to change my top mounts they will put the cambers how there meant to be or will they charge extra for that?
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They could probably do it if it's done how I explained. Use the nuts off the other struts when it goes back together.
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Had a look on etka, and found this.
(http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh115/kharekatoh/golf%20mk3/Untitled.jpg)
Notice number 28, threaded bush, goes between the bearing and the top mount. This is wrong though, as you've pointed out.
So which one is the special nut? 24 or 28?
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im very much a noob but 24 is a nut to hold 23 in place.
and 28 is to hold 21 bearing in place.
25 is all i want to replace, but that other guy is saying you need to remove 28 to remove 25.. i was hoping to just remove 25 replace 25 without taking the whole strut off.
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Had a look on etka, and found this.
(http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh115/kharekatoh/golf%20mk3/Untitled.jpg)
Notice number 28, threaded bush, goes between the bearing and the top mount. This is wrong though, as you've pointed out.
So which one is the special nut? 24 or 28?
28 threaded bush.
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On mine I've got the bearing sitting directly on the coilover top cap, then the top mount sitting on that and it's held in place with a normal flat hex nut, must be about 5mm thick or so.
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This is the nut
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v458/tshirt2k/f67253be.jpg)
It goes here
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v458/tshirt2k/a249b60d.jpg)
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Hi I need help I changed the top mounts but that special nut I cant figure out how to tighten I went as far as I could with a air hammer but when I put the suspension back on it the car it squeaks like hell I am thinking that is the cause any help do?
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You need a thin walled deep socket or a ring spanner. Have to assembled the shock correctly.
What top mounts do you have cos if they are orange poly ones from eBay they are sh!t.
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Wd40 or some white grease usually stops the squeaking but it is a common problem when running coilovers.
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They will only squeak if they are fitted wrong or worn. Only had noise with orange poly top mounts .
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I fitted original vw mounts and sorry it was a false alarm it is a squeaking tier rod ball joint that is causing the noise.
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You need a thin walled deep socket or a ring spanner. Have to assembled the shock correctly.
What top mounts do you have cos if they are orange poly ones from eBay they are sh!t.
A ring spanner will definitely not fit and neither will a walled deep socket work An average deep socket has to be modified in order to have proper access(carving a square shape at the end to fit a spanner in order for the alen to go through),this is something to think about before attempting to change the mounts, unless you have a air hammer which will work with a deep socket.
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Before i made a tool for the job i used a spark plug socket with the rubber insert removed. It has a hex top to get a ring spannet on an allows a hex drive to be inserted down the centre.
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Before i made a tool for the job i used a spark plug socket with the rubber insert removed. It has a hex top to get a ring spannet on an allows a hex drive to be inserted down the centre.
That`s a good idea......
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You need a thin walled deep socket or a ring spanner. Have to assembled the shock correctly.
What top mounts do you have cos if they are orange poly ones from eBay they are sh!t.
A ring spanner will definitely not fit and neither will a walled deep socket work An average deep socket has to be modified in order to have proper access(carving a square shape at the end to fit a spanner in order for the alen to go through),this is something to think about before attempting to change the mounts, unless you have a air hammer which will work with a deep socket.
It will work. You just have to know how to use them. A vice helps too. But that's if you haven't got an impact wrench. Sometimes you can improvise without resorting to modifying sockets.
Correct regarding ring spanner. I was thinking top nut.
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I've just replaced the struts on my Golf 3.5 cab. The 3.5 has mk4 struts set up, so subtly different form the mk3.
As well as the strut, I also changed the top mount (rubber), bearing and cap bolt (see the diagram below). All the parts are made by Bilstean. Incidentally the diagram shows the set of parts and the order that they go together, but the shapes are not very accurate, particularly for the top mount.
When I bolted the new struts into the mount that they hang from, they were jammed. The upper part doesn't revolve the lower leg of the strut turns, but it is stiff.. But surely it shouldn't be stiff?? The lower part of the strut is only turning because it can rotate around the upper part. If it is designed to work like that, why did VeeDub bother with the bearing?
Swapping back to the old rubber top mount does free the strut to rotate, but because the top mount has collapsed it also allows 5mm of vertical movement.
I've noticed that some images & exploded diagrams show a washer between the cap bolt and the bearing. I'm guessing that this would create a gap between the spring cap and the rubber top mount. There isn't such a bearing on Autodoc, but I can see that Bilstean make a spring cap. So I've bought a couple of those, in the hopes that their shape works with the other Bilstean parts.
Any how - has anyone else been down this rabbit hole already?
(https://i.postimg.cc/Ls22f057/Golf-strut.webp) (https://postimg.cc/DSj936qd)