Author Topic: Great Autocar review of 7.5 GTI  (Read 4513 times)

Offline davyk31

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Re: Great Autocar review of 7.5 GTI
« Reply #10 on: 14 February 2018, 10:46 »
You also can’t isolate the GTi and see it as the pinnacle of the range. Don’t forget there is the R for the faster harder driving experience. The Hyundai and Honda are already top of their range whereas the GTi isn’t. That lets it appeal to a slightly different market and perhaps major a little more on the more comfortable but still fast and sport car that is more than capable of daily family duties.
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Offline Splashalot

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Re: Great Autocar review of 7.5 GTI
« Reply #11 on: 14 February 2018, 10:56 »
I've got no complaints. You'd have to pay me to drive any Hyundai, the Honda looks horrific and I don't like 308s let alone the build quality.

But then your only argument is over looks (subjective) and perceived build quality, no mention of performance or driving feel and understandably so. And while I'd agree on the looks, two of the three cars you mention (Honda and Hyundai) actually fare better than VW in reliability surveys so what are we really left with?

My point is you've got a car that looks and feels nice to start with, nicer than the rest if you like, so give it the means (power and suspension) to also drive and perform better (the Clubsport experiments showed that both the equipment and know-how are available). But with the R getting the most of VW's attention and the need to create enough distance from it to not upset sales it's hard to happen. I'd love that the MK8 would be the default hot hatch choice not because it has softer plastics but because it gives you best in class feed-back and feel around corners. After all those were the reasons the GTI created its heritage, not because it could be the most "premium" choice a middle class buyer could stretch to.

When it's my money being spent, it's my (subjective) opinion that counts! But I think you are missing the point about the Golf, it's not about being the best at this and that, it's about being a great allrounder and at that, it is the best (imho of course :wink:).

  This, to me, is the critical point to the GTI - all-round versatility. There have always been faster, more performance-oriented hatches, but none with the GTI's ability to be (to pinch a Clarkson quote) "all things to all men".

From the early reviews I've seen, the Hyundai i30n seems the most likely to match the GTI in this regard, but that remains to be seen - the GTI has the runs on the board.  The Civic Type R' is a shame - the styling is just too polarising in my opinion. 
1972 Turquoise Superbug S; 1978 Miami Blue Golf GLS; 2007 Mk5 Tornado Red Golf GTI; 2017 Golf 7.5 Trendline Tungsten Silver 1.4ltr 110TSi with DAP; Current = 2018 5dr Tornado Red GTI with DAP.  All MT.

Offline scanesare

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Re: Great Autocar review of 7.5 GTI
« Reply #12 on: 14 February 2018, 15:22 »
Agree with all the comments about the GTI aiming to be an all-rounder but that was something to boast about like 10 years ago, not any more. VW got it right first yes but today the competition is offering its most dynamic packages with the same intent in mind: 308 GTI, i30N, Civic Type-R, Leon Cupra , 2018 Megane RS (coming in 5door for the first time and you can bet with a compliant suspension, at least in one of its modes), are all just as spacious (if not more in some cases) and comfortable so there goes the "daily car" card the GTI could play up to now...

So, lacking in dynamics, pace, and not being particularly "daily-er" than any of its rivals the only area it can hope to come out on top is the cabin feel and subtlety of its looks which don't sound enough if driving performance is high up on your list. In fact if cabin and premium feel is what you're mostly after you could probably be just as happy (if not more) in a 2.0 TFSI S-line A3...

Just to be clear, I still like the GTI's looks more than probably all of its competitors but I know that to have those I would have to settle with a slightly lesser car in every other department (it was actually why I ruled out the standard GTI and was ready to sign under the dotted line for a Cupra 2 years ago) and that is the frustrating bit. Especially when you know that focusing a bit more on the suspension and engine would not take away any of its daily capabilities and only provide gains to the driving department (i30N, Civic Type R and Cupra are great examples of this).

I also see but don't agree with the need to create all that market space for the R. The R will always have the AWD for those that care about it or need it, and an extra 20-30bhp should be enough for it to retain its flagship Golf status, not 70bhp as was the case with MK7 GTI vs R. That's killing the GTI in comparison to its direct rivals.

Online fredgroves

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Re: Great Autocar review of 7.5 GTI
« Reply #13 on: 14 February 2018, 18:10 »
I think if you pushed the normal golf to clubsport levels of performance it would lose the core market for the gti... And whilst you'd gain more hardcore lunatic customers, the numbers of those are less than that of the gti. I think you only need to look at drivers of gtis on the road to see that they wouldn't buy a more hardcore car. The gti is more about up selling a golf than anything. Want a nice spec golf? It's the gti.

Offline scanesare

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Re: Great Autocar review of 7.5 GTI
« Reply #14 on: 14 February 2018, 21:09 »
I think if you pushed the normal golf to clubsport levels of performance it would lose the core market for the gti... And whilst you'd gain more hardcore lunatic customers, the numbers of those are less than that of the gti. I think you only need to look at drivers of gtis on the road to see that they wouldn't buy a more hardcore car. The gti is more about up selling a golf than anything. Want a nice spec golf? It's the gti.

The part about the indifferent average GTI driver is probably right. I can't remember the times I crossed another GTI going the opposite direction waiting to get a smile/wave or positive nod (while i was ready to nod back ofc) and the other driver hadn't even noticed me, mostly in good visibility and empty road conditions. That attitude (on average) creates the impression of not exactly a petrolhead target group I agree.

Regarding the clubsport levels of performance though I would probably disagree. As I am in a position to testify, the car hardly feels any different when used for the boring stuff than a standard GTI (a slightly firmer ride but that's just about it). There is the extra grunt but it's not exactly miles ahead and anyway I don't think this would make anyone's drive less comfortable. It's when you start to really push that you get a positive surprise of the grip and capabilities on offer. As I wrote earlier, none of these aspects of a more focused approach, at least to the extent that they were implemented on the Clubsport is anything extreme that would sacrifice any of the GTIs long established virtues. So the question remains, why not?

Offline Arnold_Lane

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Re: Great Autocar review of 7.5 GTI
« Reply #15 on: 15 February 2018, 12:53 »
In fact if cabin and premium feel is what you're mostly after you could probably be just as happy (if not more) in a 2.0 TFSI S-line A3...
That probably would have been my preferred choice, but Audi don't do an A3 saloon with 245bhp & dsg.

Golf GTi PP with dsg & dcc came closer to my requirements than Focus ST / Peugeot 308 GTI, etc., etc.
On Order: Golf GTi Performance Edition, 5dr, DSG in Issac Blue with rear camera, keyless entry, Dynaudio, Brescia wheels & Dynamic chassis. Due Sep 17.

Offline P6GTD

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Re: Great Autocar review of 7.5 GTI
« Reply #16 on: 18 February 2018, 23:09 »
 “ The gti is more about up selling a golf than anything. Want a nice spec golf? It's the gti.
[/quote] “

“ The part about the indifferent average GTI driver is probably right. I can't remember the times I crossed another GTI going the opposite direction waiting to get a smile/wave or positive nod (while i was ready to nod back ofc) and the other driver hadn't even noticed me, mostly in good visibility and empty road conditions. That attitude (on average) creates the impression of not exactly a petrolhead target group “

Sorry OPs but my experience and opinion is different.

Most GTDs seem to be middle management company cars not driven by enthusiasts at all.

A large number of R’s are also company cars taken only because of the ridiculous deals offered by VWFS and are “the latest thing” for many company users.

(Residuals on R’s are pretty poor given the fab car it is).

I’m not suggesting non- GTI owners on this site fall into these categories for their GTDs or R’s by the way!

Here’s a question. How many GTIs are company cars? Not many I venture. Most are bought privately by one means or another and are relatively rare....in much smaller volumes compared with the others. Why? Because most are privately run.

I think most GTI owners are indeed enthusiasts. They may not want to rag their pride and joys all the time but given the relatively high cost of purchasing and running, you would have to love them to run one.

Next contestant please... 
5 Dr Mk7 GTI Nav, Reflex Silver, 2017

(Previously Mk7 GTI, Mk 6 GTI and MK6 GTD)

Offline scanesare

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Re: Great Autocar review of 7.5 GTI
« Reply #17 on: 19 February 2018, 15:39 »
“ The gti is more about up selling a golf than anything. Want a nice spec golf? It's the gti.
 “

“ The part about the indifferent average GTI driver is probably right. I can't remember the times I crossed another GTI going the opposite direction waiting to get a smile/wave or positive nod (while i was ready to nod back ofc) and the other driver hadn't even noticed me, mostly in good visibility and empty road conditions. That attitude (on average) creates the impression of not exactly a petrolhead target group “

Sorry OPs but my experience and opinion is different.

Most GTDs seem to be middle management company cars not driven by enthusiasts at all.

A large number of R’s are also company cars taken only because of the ridiculous deals offered by VWFS and are “the latest thing” for many company users.

(Residuals on R’s are pretty poor given the fab car it is).

I’m not suggesting non- GTI owners on this site fall into these categories for their GTDs or R’s by the way!

Here’s a question. How many GTIs are company cars? Not many I venture. Most are bought privately by one means or another and are relatively rare....in much smaller volumes compared with the others. Why? Because most are privately run.

I think most GTI owners are indeed enthusiasts. They may not want to rag their pride and joys all the time but given the relatively high cost of purchasing and running, you would have to love them to run one.

Next contestant please...

Fail to see the relation there. As you say, many GTD and R are company cars because VW decided to offer deals on those cars no? So if there were equal offers for GTIs they would have just been the same. Regardless of which, every privately owned car is just that, hardly a proof of an enthusiast/petrolhead since the majority of people still has to pay its own money to drive a car  :huh:

Besides if everybody more or less agrees the GTI's strong point is neither dynamics or straight line performance we're always exactly where we were: "just need a good all rounder with upmarket feel - can't be too arsed about driving feel and feedback - 230/245bhp is the fastest I'll ever need to go, heck I've never actually done more than 70mph - can't use all that power/performance on a public road" etc. etc. We are talking majorities here, not just what you and me think.
« Last Edit: 19 February 2018, 15:50 by scanesare »

Offline P6GTD

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Re: Great Autocar review of 7.5 GTI
« Reply #18 on: 19 February 2018, 16:21 »
Yep, I understand what you are saying but I know several business GTD drivers who "feel" and "know" nothing about their cars but saw a good set of contribution and BIK figures so chose a GTD.

They might just as well been in an A3 or 1 series.

The cost of buying and running a GTI is not exactly in the economy class and virtues like "good allrounder" or "upmarket feel" can surely be found elsewhere for less money or maybe in bigger car for your buc or a premium badge.

If someone runs a GTI, it's a conscious choice and not one based on cost. That tends to say "enthusiast" to me.

Anyways, to all readers whether GTD, GTI or R.........enjoy! The fact you are forum members says all that's needed.
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(Previously Mk7 GTI, Mk 6 GTI and MK6 GTD)

Offline Watts

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Re: Great Autocar review of 7.5 GTI
« Reply #19 on: 19 February 2018, 17:26 »
“ The gti is more about up selling a golf than anything. Want a nice spec golf? It's the gti.
 “

“ The part about the indifferent average GTI driver is probably right. I can't remember the times I crossed another GTI going the opposite direction waiting to get a smile/wave or positive nod (while i was ready to nod back ofc) and the other driver hadn't even noticed me, mostly in good visibility and empty road conditions. That attitude (on average) creates the impression of not exactly a petrolhead target group “

Sorry OPs but my experience and opinion is different.

Most GTDs seem to be middle management company cars not driven by enthusiasts at all.

A large number of R’s are also company cars taken only because of the ridiculous deals offered by VWFS and are “the latest thing” for many company users.

(Residuals on R’s are pretty poor given the fab car it is).

I’m not suggesting non- GTI owners on this site fall into these categories for their GTDs or R’s by the way!

Here’s a question. How many GTIs are company cars? Not many I venture. Most are bought privately by one means or another and are relatively rare....in much smaller volumes compared with the others. Why? Because most are privately run.

I think most GTI owners are indeed enthusiasts. They may not want to rag their pride and joys all the time but given the relatively high cost of purchasing and running, you would have to love them to run one.

Next contestant please...

Fail to see the relation there. As you say, many GTD and R are company cars because VW decided to offer deals on those cars no? So if there were equal offers for GTIs they would have just been the same. Regardless of which, every privately owned car is just that, hardly a proof of an enthusiast/petrolhead since the majority of people still has to pay its own money to drive a car  :huh:

Besides if everybody more or less agrees the GTI's strong point is neither dynamics or straight line performance we're always exactly where we were: "just need a good all rounder with upmarket feel - can't be too arsed about driving feel and feedback - 230/245bhp is the fastest I'll ever need to go, heck I've never actually done more than 70mph - can't use all that power/performance on a public road" etc. etc. We are talking majorities here, not just what you and me think.

You are making lots of assumptions here, and being a bit condescending in the process, but your opinion is just that, not a fact. Those of us not blessed with an unlimited budget have to compromise somewhere and therefore choose our cars for our own reasons - need, desire, budget, single car practicality, weekend toy etc. You say that the GTI is not the best with regards performance and handling and that's true but it's is still up there as an enthusiast's choice with great driver appeal. To improve on those aspects is likely to push the price up or force quality down in other areas. I don't want that, it's great as it is :smiley:
« Last Edit: 19 February 2018, 17:32 by Watts »
2015 Tornado Red 3dr GTI PP, manual, Santiagos, Audi short shifter.