GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk3 => Golf mk3 how to guides + info => Topic started by: Len on 09 October 2008, 12:45
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I asked this questiona while back but cant find it so guessing it got lost in server crash.
Last time somebody replied with a load of good info so hoping that comes back this time!
basically what I want to know is what larger diameter discs and calipers can be found in the VAG range?
If I remember correctly there is some Audi TT sets that will give me what I'm looking for. 318mm dia?????
Found this recently so try this link!
http://bambergvr6.freeservers.com/golf_and_jetta_iv_312mm_big_brak.htm
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312mm is the correct size, think you can use your current calipers but will need carriers with the discs.
Got to ask though...why..? 288's are more than enough for a 16v..?
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312mm is the disc size, as Daz says you can use your existing calipers but you will need the larger caliper carriers. The Mk4 312mm discs are set back (in towards the centre of the car) 6mm compared to the Mk3 ones so you will need to have 6mm spacers or washers in between your caliper carrier and the mounting points. You will also need 4 longer bolts, standard ones are M12 x 1.5 x 35mm. You will get away with 40mm long ones. They do need to be the right strength though.
I'll post some more info up when I dig it out again tonight about what discs from what cars you can use etc. I think I also found a link on some Corrado site which detailed the job, I'll have another look for that as well.
Paul
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Ok this article seems to say it all probably better than I can. Saves me digging out the info.
http://the-corrado.net/wiki/index.php/312mm_brakes
Cheers
Paul
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Thanks Paul I will digest that in detail.
As for why, well I want a better brake performance before I get work done on the engine. The discs are on there way out so now is the time to do this job.
What I'm really after is twin (or more) pot calipers as well as slightly lager discs.
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What I'm really after is twin (or more) pot calipers as well as slightly lager discs.
Using larger discs (312mm will be 24mm larger in dia) will aid slowing down considerably. Think about a spinning bicycle wheel its easier to grab hold of and stop a spinning wheel from the outside edge, if you try it from further in it gets a lot harder.
I would try the larger discs and standard calipers first and then if you're still not happy upgrade to 4 pot calipers. Larger discs will also dissipate the heat quicker as well so should prevent overheating.
I have some info at home about fitting Porsche Boxster front calipers which I will dig out later for you. It may be overkill and you may well upset the brake balance of the car though.
A good set of fast road pads and 312mm discs should be more than enough to get your abs kicking in, and was good enough for VW to put on their Turbo cars including the 225bhp Audi TT.
Cheers
Paul
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OK the following link details how to upgrade a Mk4 to use Porsche Boxster front calipers. You can also use Porsche 996 calipers or 928S4 calipers, or any Brembo ones with the fixing holes in the same plane.
http://www.neuspeed.com/data/installs/99.10.89S.pdf
The neuspeed caliper adaptor will be wrong for a Mk3 and you will need to space it out by 6mm. I heard a rumour that Neuspeed will sell the adaptors seperately but don't know for sure.
You can buy adaptors from ebay and get them drilled to suit your own set up for a variety of calipers or get them to drill them for an extras cost see:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=290266841932
Bear in mind these are only for calipers that fix through the front and not through the sides. You could also get a machine shop to make you up something locally.
Lots of scrap boxsters about if you want second hand calipers. If you buy secondhand make sure the stainless steel plates that the edge of the pads sit on hasn't lifted up, they can suffer corrossion under the plates.
If you go down the 312mm vag set up route you can get the caliper carriers from ebay or www.vagparts.co.uk who sell them for about £100.
Hope this makes sense and helps out.
Paul
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Looking at Willwood calipers atm so will let you know what I decide!
thanks again Paul.
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Bump! Not gonna lose this info again!
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I will sticky this into maintenence just for you len... :smiley:
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Thanks Adey! :wink:
I knew someone would take notice in the end! :grin:
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Should be worth considering what you will do to your brake balance if you upgrade the front brakes only.
You might need to install a brake bias valve to set it up properly (safely)
Good article at
http://www.stoptech.com/products/BBK/balance.shtml
Paul
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Wouldnt the standard brake balance take care of that?
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Len.... if u REALLY want to beef up yer brakes....
How silly do you want to go and how much do you mind spending...
(http://www.atg-racing.de/ims/docs/medialibary/48.gif)
Check out the Brembo Gran Turismo (http://www.brembo.com/CatalogoHPGT/Templates/SearchHPGT.aspx?NRMODE=Published&NRORIGINALURL=%2fENG%2fHighPerformance-Brakes%2fGranTurismoCatalogue%2f&NRNODEGUID={97CFEBDC-74B5-481D-95E0-024644BC51FA}&NRCACHEHINT=NoModifyGuest) line....
I think you'll be wanting Brembo part 111.5001A (http://www.brembo.com/CatalogoHPGT/DetailPages/KitDetail.aspx?id=111.5001A&idLingua=1)... that includes 313mm discs, 4-pot Brembo calipers, Brembo hoses and pads.... but that's about £1900!
You can source most of them at Top Gear (http://www.topgear.co.uk/acatalog/Volkswagen_Brembo_Brakes.html) = they were cheapest for the Mk2 / Mk3 4-stud (cabriolet) version (similar spec, but 305mm and 4-stud), but those are <£900.... BUT I needed 17" wheels to be sure they'd fit... 16" wheels were just too much of a gamble and I like my RX2's too much....
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Well I did look at Brembo but no way! Not spending that kind of money!
have also looked at Wilwood. Same thing there!
Maybe see if the old Austin Princess twin pot calipers will fit! Get them from a scrappy! :grin:
Still considering my options really.
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I've just bought on the 'bay all this:
Golf GTI 312mm Front Brakes
This auction is for a complete front brake setup.
These brakes are off of my Mk5 Golf GTI. I have only taken them off as i have upgraded.
This setup can be used as a performance enhancement for most other golf model's.
Included:-
1 x pair of 312mm vented disc's
1 x pair of splash gaurds
1 x set of useable pads
1 x pair of carriers
1 x pair of calipers with hoses
I got quite a good deal on it all.... But is it all the right gear and will it fit?
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I've just bought on the 'bay all this:
1 x pair of 312mm vented disc's
1 x pair of splash gaurds
1 x set of useable pads
1 x pair of carriers
1 x pair of calipers with hoses
I got quite a good deal on it all.... But is it all the right gear and will it fit?
I take it you are fitting these to a MK3.
The offset on the VAG 312mm discs is wrong for the MK3 so you will need to put 6mm spacers or washers between the carriers and the fixing points. You will also need the correct grade bolts that are 6mm longer than standard. Standard is M12 x 1.5 by 35mm long.
If your car has the 288mm brakes you can use your existing calipers and hoses in the new carriers. If not use the new calipers and hoses you have bought.
You will need a minimum of 16inch wheels to fit these brakes under.
Paul
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I've just bought on the 'bay all this:
1 x pair of 312mm vented disc's
1 x pair of splash gaurds
1 x set of useable pads
1 x pair of carriers
1 x pair of calipers with hoses
I got quite a good deal on it all.... But is it all the right gear and will it fit?
I take it you are fitting these to a MK3.
The offset on the VAG 312mm discs is wrong for the MK3 so you will need to put 6mm spacers or washers between the carriers and the fixing points. You will also need the correct grade bolts that are 6mm longer than standard. Standard is M12 x 1.5 by 35mm long.
If your car has the 288mm brakes you can use your existing calipers and hoses in the new carriers. If not use the new calipers and hoses you have bought.
You will need a minimum of 16inch wheels to fit these brakes under.
Paul
Thanks for your reply Paul...
Yes they will be going on a mk3, mine currently has the 280mm brakes as its the early GTi spec.
I currently run 17" Competition rims anyhoo...
Oh, are these the bolts i will need then chap?
http://www.imperialinc.com/items.asp?item=0111961
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They need to be 40mm long and more importantly they need to be at least 10.9
8.8 is not strong enough to hold on brake calipers.
Paul
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They need to be 40mm long and more importantly they need to be at least 10.9
8.8 is not strong enough to hold on brake calipers.
Paul
Ah right... Sorry :embarassed:
These any better?
http://www.imperialinc.com/items.asp?item=0151970
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Getting there, the pitch is wrong you need 1.5 not 1.75
Need to be M12 x 1.5 pitch x 40mm long grade 10.9 or better (higher)
Paul
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So i have 288mm brakes,
If i change the carriers, stick 6m spacer in, use the longer bolts and chuck on some 312mm discs, i still use my orignial calipers.
And therefor original 288mm pads? As surely if i dont change the caliper it still wants 288mm pads?
Or am i missing something here?
Would it also be advisary to fit braided hoses to help? And what would this do to my abs system?
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http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/VW-Audi-312mm-front-Brake-calipers-and-carriers_W0QQitemZ320371191240QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM?hash=item4a979c6dc8&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A12|66%3A2|39%3A1|72%3A1683|240%3A1318|301%3A1|293%3A1|294%3A50
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So i have 288mm brakes,
If i change the carriers, stick 6m spacer in, use the longer bolts and chuck on some 312mm discs, i still use my orignial calipers.
And therefor original 288mm pads? As surely if i dont change the caliper it still wants 288mm pads?
Or am i missing something here?
Would it also be advisary to fit braided hoses to help? And what would this do to my abs system?
Sorry missed this.
Yes you need the larger carriers, with a 6mm spacer between the carrier and its connecting point. (This is because the 312mm discs have a differant offset). 6mm longer bolts but you will get away with 5mm to make them 40mm long. Use your original calipers and yes your original 288mm pads.
Braided hoses are meant to be better because the shouldn't expand, but if your rubber hoses are all good then leave the on. Shouldn't affect your abs system at all, but it might work a bit more often with the extra braking power at the front.
Remember you will need at least 16 inch wheels to fit this lot under.
In case your wondering why this will work better considering you are using the same size calipers and pads it is because you are gripping the outside of a larger diameter disc. Think of a pushbike wheel spinning it is a lot easier to stop it on the edge that from the centre.
Paul
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I've just bought on the 'bay all this:
This auction is for a complete front brake setup.
These brakes are off of my Mk5 Golf GTI. I have only taken them off as i have upgraded.
This setup can be used as a performance enhancement for most other golf model's.
Included:-
Golf GTI 312mm Front Brakes
This auction is for a complete front brake setup.
These brakes are off of my Mk5 Golf GTI. I have only taken them off as i have upgraded.
This setup can be used as a performance enhancement for most other golf model's.
Included:-
1 x pair of 312mm vented disc's
1 x pair of splash gaurds
1 x set of useable pads
1 x pair of carriers
1 x pair of calipers with hoses
I got quite a good deal on it all.... But is it all the right gear and will it fit?
I take it you are fitting these to a MK3.
The offset on the VAG 312mm discs is wrong for the MK3 so you will need to put 6mm spacers or washers between the carriers and the fixing points. You will also need the correct grade bolts that are 6mm longer than standard. Standard is M12 x 1.5 by 35mm long.
If your car has the 288mm brakes you can use your existing calipers and hoses in the new carriers. If not use the new calipers and hoses you have bought.
You will need a minimum of 16inch wheels to fit these brakes under.
Paul
Thanks for your reply Paul...
Yes they will be going on a mk3, mine currently has the 280mm brakes as its the early GTi spec.
I currently run 17" Competition rims anyhoo...
Oh, are these the bolts i will need then chap?
http://www.imperialinc.com/items.asp?item=0111961
Just trying to fit my 312's today, got all the bolts i needed, but the 312 discs are fouling on the hub! :(
On placing them on the hub they foul the mounting holes for the carriers..... This can't be right can it? :sad:
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No, it can't...
Discs must be wrong.
I have 312s on my Mk3, and swapped discs from my 2001 S3 on and off easily...so your discs must be incorrect.
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Trust me their wrong...... I have pictures.
Even the carriers don't line up wit any of the bolt holes.
So.... I have either bought the wrong stuff OR my hubs are different to everyone elses :cry:
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Trust me their wrong...... I have pictures.
Even the carriers don't line up wit any of the bolt holes.
So.... I have either bought the wrong stuff OR my hubs are different to everyone elses :cry:
Just read the above posts...does thet really say Mk5 GTI?
If so, that's why they won't fit.
Wrong hubs for the brakes, wrong bolt pattern for your wheels, wrong offset for your discs...
If you have Mk5 GTI stuff, you have a lot of very expensive paperweights, I'm afraid.
It's Mk4 4Motion/Mk4 Anni (petrol)/Mk1 TT/Mk1 S3 stuff you need.
Mk5 golf has 5 x 112mm PCD for a start...not 5 x 100mm.
It's just useless to you, if you have a Mk3.
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http://bambergvr6.freeservers.com/golf_and_jetta_iv_312mm_big_brak.htm
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can you do anything with the rear brakes? looks a bit strange with an alloy on the front full of disc and the one on the back with a piddly little excuse for a disc hiding in the middle
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So this 312mm your talking about is and can go on the mk2 16v hubs ? i currently run G60's at the front , but would love the 312's to go with some porsche wheels im after ,
Jo :smiley: