GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk4 => Topic started by: jamie16v on 16 October 2011, 20:25
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as above really, anybody know the size of both wheels on the k04-023?..
could we get a list going? i.e list stolen from rich`s thread for k03 onwards..
Ko3 - 97-2000
COMPRESSOR WHEEL
Inducer: 33.6mm
Exducer: 46mm
Tip height: 3.7mm
TURBINE WHEEL
Inducer: 45mm
Exducer: 38mm
Tip height: 6.8mm
Blades: 11
Ko3S - 01+
COMPRESSOR WHEEL
Inducer: 38mm
Exducer: 51mm
Tip height: 4.4mm
TURBINE WHEEL
Inducer: 45mm
Exducer: 38mm
Tip height: 6.8mm
Blades: 11
Ko4-015
COMPRESSOR WHEEL
Inducer: 35mm
Exducer: 50mm
Tip height: 3.7mm
TURBINE WHEEL
Inducer: 50mm
Exducer: 42mm
Tip height: 6.4mm
Blades: 11
k04-023
compressor wheel
inducer: 42mm
exducer: 56mm
turbine wheel
inducer: 42mm
exducer: 55mm
Ko4-001
COMPRESSOR WHEEL
Inducer: 35mm
Exducer: 50mm
Tip height: 3.7mm
TURBINE WHEEL
Inducer: 50mm
Exducer: 42mm
Tip height: 6.4mm
Blades: 11
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Found this mate, ill update it when I get home bud.
Haven't you bought one already? Get the vernier out :grin:
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Found this mate, ill update it when I get home bud.
Haven't you bought one already? Get the vernier out :grin:
still waiting for it to be rammed though my letterbox mate. :tongue:
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Found this mate, ill update it when I get home bud.
Haven't you bought one already? Get the vernier out :grin:
come on, update us then dave :smiley:
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Found this mate, ill update it when I get home bud.
Haven't you bought one already? Get the vernier out :grin:
come on, update us then dave :smiley:
Thought i had it, but wrong measurements to the ones you want :sad: :embarassed:
(http://www.mjmturbos.com/images/K04-23.jpg)
Ill keep looking..
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K04 - 023
COMPRESSOR WHEEL
Inducer: 42mm
Exducer: 56mm
Tip height: ?.?mm
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cheapest way possible probably is to bolt the k04-023 housing and compressor wheel to the k03 and us the k04 tip and associated hoses..
a route i thought about, but thought again about.
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is their an exploded diagram of the borg warner k series turbos?
as all this inducer exducer, hot side, cold side, i'm finding abit confusing.
I just want to build a powerful turbo the cheapest way possible!
k03 shell with k04-023 coldside, but what about the hot?
it's all confusing to me
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vGhlgphrBxA&feature=related
In your example you would have your k03 turbine wheel (in exhaust housing (hot side)), as normal, spinning at X rpm as the exhaust gas goes past it.
Putting on a cold side from a k04-023, would mean the shaft from Hot side to cold side, would now be spinning a larger compreesor wheel (compressor housing(cold side)) thus pulling in more air, to result in a bigger bang.
Bigger wheel = more draw, but higher spool times which = lag.
Basics of it anyway
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as above really, anybody know the size of both wheels on the k04-023?..
could we get a list going? i.e list stolen from rich`s thread for k03 onwards..
Ko3 - 97-2000
COMPRESSOR WHEEL
Inducer: 33.6mm
Exducer: 46mm
Tip height: 3.7mm
TURBINE WHEEL
Inducer: 45mm
Exducer: 38mm
Tip height: 6.8mm
Blades: 11
Ko3S - 01+
COMPRESSOR WHEEL
Inducer: 38mm
Exducer: 51mm
Tip height: 4.4mm
TURBINE WHEEL
Inducer: 45mm
Exducer: 38mm
Tip height: 6.8mm
Blades: 11
Ko4-015
COMPRESSOR WHEEL
Inducer: 35mm
Exducer: 50mm
Tip height: 3.7mm
TURBINE WHEEL
Inducer: 50mm
Exducer: 42mm
Tip height: 6.4mm
Blades: 11
COMPRESSOR WHEEL
Inducer: 42mm
Exducer: 56mm
Tip height: ?.?mm
looking at the compressor wheels on the k03s and the -023 there seems to be onlya 4mm difference on the inducer part of the wheel, this is the part that sucks the air in from the TIP. which means that only 4mm diameter needs to be taken from that part of the housing. i am unsure what the inner cast of the cld side will look like at the mo so i`m a little unsure what metal will need removing altogether. as we are unsure of the size of the turbine wheel i am still unable to determine what is needed to be removed from that housing. if i were to keep the k03s turbine (hybrid it) the turbo would spool very fast. from what i have read, this is good and also bad. the faster the turbine spins the compressor, the more boost we can achieve, BUT, the smaller the turbine (hole the exhaust gasses flow through) the more restricted our top end power.. i am unsure exaclty how restricted this would actually be, i could see there being problems with EGT`s?? perhaps nick would have some sort of a clue??? :tongue:
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basically, you need the base turbo of your choice, i.e k03s or k04-001, then your bigger turbo you want to hybrid with like the k04-023.
you`ll also need a rebuild kit, preferably with 360 degree upgrade bearing.
then its a case of mating the hotside of your base turbo of choice to the cold side of your bigger turbo.
the smaller the hotside, the faster it will spin the cold side. but the smaller the hotside the more restrictive it becomes.
when it comes to mating the new turbo you could either keep the new housing for the build (this would mean you would need the TIP and associated boost hoses from the doner turbo) or you can machine out the housing of the base turbo, this is the route i would like to go but means finding someone or a way of enlarging the housings port.. i was wondering if a brake caliper honing tool would be man enough for the job.
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then use a silicone bend and a metal connector tube to connect the hybrid inlet to my modified silicone tip, that way no new boost
had thought about it, but would prefere to avoid it.
i`m unsure exaclty what the benefits of the 360 deg bearings are, i just know theyre better. thats good enough for me until i find the time to read up one it :wink: i would also take into consideration, it may be worth sending the newly built core off for high speed balancing before you put the housings on and use it.
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@ wolverine _ souldnt be much, but gives you peace of mind...
heres an interesting read, though when he mentions the k03s turbine housing, i think he actually means k04-001.
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?1598145-285-HP-Ibiza-FR-Turbo-is-in...
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found more info here on vortex.. http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?3516484/page3 cant see much for turbine though
KO3
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5303-123-2018
Inducer diameter: 33.63mm
Tip height: 3.71
Exducer diameter: 46.02
5304-123-2201
Inducer diameter: 38.48mm
Tip height: 4.67
Exducer diameter: 50.95
5303-123-2011
Inducer diameter: 31.45mm
Tip height: 3.12
Exducer diameter: 44.96
5304-123-2007
Inducer diameter: 36.02mm
Tip height: 3.89
Exducer diameter: 49.96
and for the KO4:
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5304-123-2029
Inducer diameter: 37.95mm
Tip height: 4.39
Exducer diameter:50.95
5304-123-5010
Inducer diameter:34.90mm
Tip height: 3.61
Exducer diameter: 49.96
5304-123-2032
Inducer diameter: 34.54mm
Tip height: 3.28
Exducer diameter: 50.95
5304-123-2202
Inducer diameter: 37.74mm
Tip height: 4.42
Exducer diameter: 50.95
5304-123-2023
Inducer diameter: 36.65mm
Tip height: 4.04
Exducer diameter: 50.95
5304-123-2018
Inducer diameter: 35.97mm
Tip height: 3.68
Exducer diameter: 49.96
5304-123-2007
Inducer diameter: 36.02mm
Tip height: 3.89
Exducer diameter: 49.96
5304-123-2000
- see above under KO3 section
5304-123-2005
Inducer diameter: 34.90mm
Tip height: 3.73
Exducer diameter: 49.96
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The A/R ratio is the ratio between the cross-sectional area (A) of the turbine scroll at any one point and the distance or radius (R) from that point to the center of the turbine-wheel. This ratio is always constant so each point along the turbine scroll will have the same A/R ratio. A turbo with a smaller A/R ratio will tend to create more torque while a turbo with a larger A/R ratio will provide more power because more exhaust gas energy will be acting on the turbine-wheel. Generally, an A/R ratio of 0.7 will provide better low-end response, while an A/R ratio of 1.4 will provide more top-end power.
Basically a ko3s compressor housing will give more torque and less bhp but in fairness in you're not going to really loose that much .
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http://www.turbointernational.com/images/catalog-pdf/Catalog-KKK.pdf
more interesing stuff
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would be easier to bolt the k04 onto the k03, not sure the gains would be great though... :undecided:
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true, but i dont think it would be alot more over the k03s.
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lol, thats not what i meant.. i meant i dont think a k03/k04 hybrid would give much gain over the k03s. the k04 bolted on would give alot more top end power but less low end torque. so, would be less drivable as a daily.. i had thought about it but for what its worth and the route i am planning i think full k04 internals in the k03s housings would be a better bet. if i could get my hands on the k04-001 for peanuts then i would hyrbrid that but its not going to happen..lol
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If i could get my hands on the k04-001 for peanuts then i would hyrbrid that but its not going to happen..lol
Keep your eyes open bud, happened for me :afro:
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it`s more money than i got mate to be honest.. when i say peanuts i mean like £20 at the most.. im just going to stick with the bits i have got now and make something out of them.. :smiley:
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Or just buy a Porsche :lipsrsealed:
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it`s more money than i got mate to be honest.. when i say peanuts i mean like £20 at the most.. im just going to stick with the bits i have got now and make something out of them.. :smiley:
Is it defo just 032 compressor wheel i need, not shaft too? Cant remember what Nick said..
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if you have the k04-001 then yes its just the compressor wheel. but you will either need to machine your k04-001 housing to match the wheel OR use the housing from the k04-023 and cut the outlet tube and weld it to the k04-001 housing so it resembles the k03 shape so that it fits your existing pipework, :smiley:
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if you have the k04-001 then yes its just the compressor wheel. but you will either need to machine your k04-001 housing to match the wheel OR use the housing from the k04-023 and cut the outlet tube and weld it to the k04-001 housing so it resembles the k03 shape so that it fits your existing pipework, :smiley:
What you mean pipework, FMIC? that could very easily be adapted. I have 2.5 inch pipework atm.
Just i can get wheel for 50, didnt know if Nick mentioned shaft too..
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Or do as I said and use silicone hose and a metametal connector to join tje turbo to the silicone tip..no welding then
:grin: pissed be f**ked :laugh:
after doing some research im not 100% sure the turbo intake outer diameter is different so the k03s tip "may" still be used.
i think the difference with the k04 and k03 tips is their position on the exhaust manifolds and the inner diameter of the MAF.
as i said though, i`m not 100% sure on that.
welding is not much of an issue for me, its the cost and machining which is the obstacle.
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if you have the k04-001 then yes its just the compressor wheel. but you will either need to machine your k04-001 housing to match the wheel OR use the housing from the k04-023 and cut the outlet tube and weld it to the k04-001 housing so it resembles the k03 shape so that it fits your existing pipework, :smiley:
What you mean pipework, FMIC? that could very easily be adapted. I have 2.5 inch pipework atm.
Just i can get wheel for 50, didnt know if Nick mentioned shaft too..
yes, fmic pipework. if your buying just the wheel, then dont forget, it has to fit into a given housing. im not sure if the shaft is one piece with the turbine.
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Well Nicks offer of sending 001 up, a fcuked 023, return postage, and doing the job for couple of packs of hobnobs, i thought would have ment no machining :laugh:
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i have no idea whats going on
:laugh: :grin: :laugh: :grin:
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i have no idea whats going on
:laugh: :grin: :laugh: :grin:
spat ma brew out reading that :laugh:
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Doesn't matter if its k03 or l03s does it as the exhaust side is the same?
I got a spare k03 laying around, but for the money and messing around the toyosport t304 kit seems wayyyyyyy to tempting.
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Doesn't matter if its k03 or l03s does it as the exhaust side is the same?
I got a spare k03 laying around, but for the money and messing around the toyosport t304 kit seems wayyyyyyy to tempting.
To me it did aswell bud, remember a few messages to and fro with you about it, rods is what puts me off..
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Well Nicks offer of sending 001 up, a fcuked 023, return postage, and doing the job for couple of packs of hobnobs, i thought would have ment no machining :laugh:
there wont be no machining if you send the 023 cold housing, just welding the tube thats all..
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I worked out the pipework, rods is the only thing that put me off, not cheap and it's not something I've ever done before, tried a few local garages but I couldn't trust any of them unfortunately.
If I get a shed built in the garden I may bite my lip and get it done diy in a years time, just seems small money for big power and we've seen nick tune one golf successfully and reliably with that setup.
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i too have thought about building a strong engine.. providing you follow all the guidlines, keep the tolerances neat, lube as you go, you shouldnt have too much trouble.
not doing it yet though.. i proper skint :grin:
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i too have thought about building a strong engine.. providing you follow all the guidlines, keep the tolerances neat, lube as you go, you shouldnt have too much trouble.
not doing it yet though.. i proper skint :grin:
Haha, tell me about it, I bought a house a while back, it has raped all my golf modding dreams :grin: :grin: :grin:
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guess what came to the door today :smiley:
will be getting the vernier caliper out soon :nerd:
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guess what came to the door today :smiley:
will be getting the vernier caliper out soon :nerd:
to answer that question, there is about 10-20mm axial play in the shaft, the compressor wheel looks fine from the outside but looks like it has ground some of the inner exducer away :angry: turbine wheel looks ok though..
gutted.
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piccies :wink:
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surely it doesn't matter as if you are rebuilding it with a 360 degree bearing and new inducer and exducer.
then essentially that is the whole core? so in effect your just using the housing?
or have i missed the point completely?
i think you have missed the point completely..lol the idea of buying the turbo was for the compressor wheel.. now it seems like pointless opereation.. :cry:
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yep, a k04-023.. i`m soo pissed off now. though i cant complain, i bought it as spares or repair. :lipsrsealed:
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more info sourced for the k04-001 ect
TURBO DIMENSIONS.
Ko3 - 2000
COMPRESSOR WHEEL
Inducer: 33.6mm
Exducer: 46mm
Tip height: 3.7mm
TURBINE WHEEL
Inducer: 45mm
Exducer: 38mm
Tip height: 6.8mm
Blades: 11
Ko3S - Late 01+
COMPRESSOR WHEEL
Inducer: 38mm
Exducer: 51mm
Tip height: 4.4mm
TURBINE WHEEL
Inducer: 45mm
Exducer: 38mm
Tip height: 6.8mm
Blades: 11
Ko4-001
COMPRESSOR WHEEL
Inducer: 35mm
Exducer: 50mm
Tip height: 3.7mm
TURBINE WHEEL
Inducer: 50mm
Exducer: 42mm
Tip height: 6.4mm
Blades: 11
RS6 Core hybrid
COMPRESSOR WHEEL
Inducer: 42mm
Exducer: 56mm
TURBINE WHEEL
Inducer: 50mm
Exducer: 44.5mm
found here : http://www.clubgti.com/forum/archive/index.php?t-238737.html
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i`ve just sourced some realy useful information regarding a possible hybrid.. you probably wouldn`t believe it.. but all i will say is dave has most the parts already :wink:
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i`ve just sourced some realy useful information regarding a possible hybrid.. you probably wouldn`t believe it.. but all i will say is dave has most the parts already :wink:
Spill my man :wink:
all i will say is the wheel sizes are already posted in this thread! you do the maths! :wink:
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i don't know what parts dave has :grin:
something to do with the rs6?
haha.. nope... google E05B
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beh :nerd: :lipsrsealed:
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Indeed, shame I have to sell ko3s to fund the remap.
Read this on vortex a few weeks ago :smiley:
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Indeed, shame I have to sell ko3s to fund the remap.
Read this on vortex a few weeks ago :smiley:
sell the k03s to fund the remap??.
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Sell both and get the t304e and ask r tech to map it appropriatly to stock internals, it will have a hell more puff through the entire rev range and keep up with supplying air higher up the revs :wink:
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daves going for the 023 wheel on the -001 i think wolvey
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daves going for the 023 wheel on the -001 i think wolvey
ahh i see.
Think i'll go for 023 wheel on the k03. as the hotside of k03 and k03s are the same?
i wouldnt bother, you will end up with something very simular to a k03s.. :tongue:
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daves going for the 023 wheel on the -001 i think wolvey
:afro:
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So Decided to go this hybrid route myself a while back, basically idea was to put a k04-023 core into the the K03s. Obviously it would need machining, but the premise was there. I've spoken to Jamie about this, and have had all the machine work done on my k03s that I had kicking aroung, I also had a used k04-023 so I could put the 2 together to at least make sure there was no clearance issues when the machining was being done. The machine shop I used is very good but they struggled, mainly as they had to make up brackets to support the housings in order to get them machined. Also as the parts are all cast and then machined at the factory they aren't all the same and not completely true!
Anyway after a lot of work and lots of fine tunning with a dremmel the 2 housings are now finished and ready. Only problem is I now no longer had a car to install the turbo on!
Here are some pictures
(http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn238/danmlittle/photo-1.jpg)
this 2nd picture shows a standard k03s hot side with the new machined hot side, I doubt you can really see any difference, but will give an idea.
(http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn238/danmlittle/photo.jpg)
Now I am sure there will be discussion about whether this turbo would be as good as a full k04-023 , the answer is simply no firstly the exhaust is smaller and also the a/r on the k03s coldside housing is lower than the k04-023 which will mean at peak boost there will be less air flowing through so you wont get as high a BHP but you will get better torque, which for a fwd drive car is almost certainly better.
The only other issue I have, is that the k03s inlet on the compressor housing is 42.5mm wide. the inducer on the k04-023 is also 42.5mm so if you where to run the bore on the housing all the way through you would run out of metal, because of this we had to step down the inlet to allow enough metal to remain but also to accomodate the compressor this happen half way down the inlet, this in my mind is going to restrict air flow into the compressor and could potentially cause it to stall or surge but I think that would only happen at high PSI. Possibly a good tip would gain back some of this restriction.
Anyway. We shall see what happens, just need to buy a project car to fit the turbo too. I have everything else ie manifolds, injectors FPRs, and FMIC and a remapped ecu just nothing to run it on :grin:
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did some searching and found this topic!!!
has some answers i need but the results were never posted here... so what was the outcome??
i have a k04-023 and have just got a old k03 to do the conversion but reading this apparently i ned the k03s hotside.... i thought these hot sides were the same :undecided:
any help much appreciated