Author Topic: How are you finding your GTD performance?  (Read 28926 times)

Offline corgi

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Re: How are you finding your GTD performance?
« Reply #10 on: 22 November 2013, 10:47 »
I have a theory about this and I will not be able to support it with anything until after I take delivery of my GTD Manual at the beginning of December.

I have had discussions with monkeyhanger on here about the performance and he's been pretty scientific about it and I believe him when he says that his GTD is a little slower than his 170TDI Roc - we could argue here that within a reasonable margin for error that performance of his GTD and his Roc are to all intents and purposes identical.

I would expect much between them, to be honest - the power:weight ratios are close to identical, you might expect the Roc to be a little faster at high speeds because of its smaller frontal area and lower drag.

It is likely that owing the variances in manufacture that monkeyhanger had a powerful 170 Roc and an average GTD...

The only way to prove or disprove the above would be to run both cars back to back on a rolling road.

I think refinement is certainly one aspect that would make the GTD feel slower. The other is likely to be the torque curve. Is suspect that the Roc had a narrower torque band with a higher peak and that the GTD has a wider less torque band with little or no peak. This would explain the perceived lack of pull in the higher gears. Maybe the GTD needs to be driven differently to extract best performance by making use of the wider torque band by changing down...

As I said, just a theory at the moment...
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Offline 2014GTi

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Re: How are you finding your GTD performance?
« Reply #11 on: 22 November 2013, 10:48 »
I would say DSG is perhaps the cause of the poor mpg  :nerd:
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Offline corgi

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Re: How are you finding your GTD performance?
« Reply #12 on: 22 November 2013, 10:53 »
I would say DSG is perhaps the cause of the poor mpg  :nerd:

But monkeyhanger's theory (based on some evidence) is that in many cases the DSG folk are seeing better fuel consumption that those with manual gearboxes...
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Offline 2014GTi

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Re: How are you finding your GTD performance?
« Reply #13 on: 22 November 2013, 10:57 »
I would say DSG is perhaps the cause of the poor mpg  :nerd:

But monkeyhanger's theory (based on some evidence) is that in many cases the DSG folk are seeing better fuel consumption that those with manual gearboxes...
Does anybody think Volkswagen have accidently mixed up all the mpg and CO2 figures for their Manual & DSG cars?  :shocked:
I bought a manual GTi because I like the gear box but also being its better mpg.
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Offline monkeyhanger

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Re: How are you finding your GTD performance?
« Reply #14 on: 22 November 2013, 10:58 »
Talking feel vs refinement (dulling the feel in adding refinement), there’s no denying poor mpg – that’s a figure the MFD kicks out no matter what you are feeling when driving.

I’ve used a marker point on my commute road and when I enter that road at exactly 30mph from the roundabout’s filter lane and floor it to a certain sign, I could do 83mph in my Scirocco and only 80mph in the GTD (consistently 80mph over 5 or 6 goes in the dry). Feel or not, my GTD is not as quick. To a very small extent 4th gear acceleration is worse and to a much larger extent, 5th and 6th gear acceleration are worse. For 60-80mph acceleration, I usually now opt to drop to 4th, whereas I used to leave it in 6th.

I feel like VW snuck the 150PS GT TDI engine into mine (5th/6th gear torque is the most noticeable difference between the 150/184 and the old 140/170).
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Offline 2014GTi

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Re: How are you finding your GTD performance?
« Reply #15 on: 22 November 2013, 11:00 »
And its nothing to do with the engine not being run in yet?
This sounds very bad  :undecided:

GTI7me has had 48.5mpg out of his GTi  :huh:
« Last Edit: 22 November 2013, 11:05 by 2013GTi »
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Offline corgi

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Re: How are you finding your GTD performance?
« Reply #16 on: 22 November 2013, 11:14 »
@monkeyhanger As I said I believe what you've said...

When I get mine and I've run it in, I'll run some back to back tests with the g/f's BMW 120d M-Sport - which from a performance perspective feels pretty much as I expected from a performance perspective...
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Offline monkeyhanger

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Re: How are you finding your GTD performance?
« Reply #17 on: 22 November 2013, 11:15 »
I had attributed my initial poor performance and low mpg to the use of Shell V-power (which is less potent, but cleaner) for the first 2.5 tanks of fuel. I had seen a small improvement when moving to standard Esso, but not much. Just hoping that I didn’t have an irreversibly poor running in period because of the V-power, although I don’t think that is the case because others here are seeing similar mpg.

It does confuse the hell out of me why DSGers (including my dad) are generally seeing much better mpg. I’m thinking that the DSG box’s management of gear changes is more in tune with the engine than the gear change prompt software on the manual. It sometimes makes no sense at all. Sometimes it’ll happily take being sat at 42mph in 6th, but drop a few mph and it wants you to drop to 5th (fair enough), but as soon as you’re in 5th, it wants 4th, then 3rd. So you end up from 6th at 42mph to the car wanting to be in 3rd at 36mph, move back up to 42mph and it wants 6th again, which suggests to me that it doesn’t want a higher engine speed for a regen. Some of the time (lately) I have given up taking the gear change indicator as gospel and ignore the car wanting to be sat at 36mph in 3rd and leave it in 4th or 5th  instead.

My dad hammers his DSG and still gets 51 indicated/48 actual mpg.

If I could buy again, I’d buy a GTI and expect 35mpg.
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Offline Sootchucker

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Re: How are you finding your GTD performance?
« Reply #18 on: 22 November 2013, 11:21 »
Well for those who know how to read these graphs here's the VW print out of the power and torque curves for the 103KW/125KW CR engine from the Scirocco, and the 184ps unit in the new GTD ?

Certainly looks like the 184ps engine holds it's peak torque longer ?


2013-11-22_111959 by Sootchucker, on Flickr


CR 2.0 184PS by Sootchucker, on Flickr
« Last Edit: 22 November 2013, 11:31 by Norbreck21a »
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Offline monkeyhanger

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Re: How are you finding your GTD performance?
« Reply #19 on: 22 November 2013, 11:22 »
Of course we should all be seeing a dip in our mpg anyway with the colder weather being upon us. I generally saw a 10% dip in mpg in winter vs summer on previous TDIs. Maybe 44mpg now at 3C (7am in the morning) vs 44mpg in September at 16C is an improvement? Probably won’t find out until next May, although we might see our mpg take a dip when the sub-zero weather comes.

Might be a good time to check tyre pressures again too it they were last topped up in the warmer weather – you may find your tyre’s resting pressure to be a few PSI lower in the colder weather.
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