Author Topic: EA288 2.0 TDI 184PS Development thread..  (Read 94581 times)

Offline Andrew@DTUK

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EA288 2.0 TDI 184PS Development thread..
« on: 11 November 2013, 14:58 »
as the last thread was hi-jacked i thought it would be better to start again..


At the weekend we headed down to Shark Performance to use their dyno, and also look at combining our knowledge to see what we could achieve..

This is an ongoing project which ill update regularly..

I posted this on another forum earlier today

Quote
talk is always good..


We've been involved with dual channel systems for VAG/BMW/MERC/Vauxhall for nearly 3 years now, intact we've been tuning the 2.0 140/170 with a dual channel system since 2009 and have dyno graphs from that engine showing a nice smooth curve and 220bhp and 443nm

the latest range of EA288 TDI engines in my eyes are a revelation, so much so i actually love driving our vRS

Getting onto the nitty gritty, we all know that tuned figures are like the lottery. Some of the claims being made are in my eyes unachievable, ok ill rephrase that and say that a high spike of bhp to hit the numbers is achievable but at the sacrifice of drivability.

As maisbitt has mentioned, he has loads of power but by the sounds of it his car is bordering on being undriveable as he is losing traction.

We've been working on software this last couple of weeks (without the dyn0) and we can give our customers an undriveable peaky map that within the dyno lottery would probably give 235bhp.. Yeah I've got 235bhp but i can't drive the car.

A true tuner wants to give their customers a tuned car that they can actually use, and this is why we differ from the competition and why we've invested over £25,000 in our own Octavia. This latest 2.0 184PS is going to be very popular, and we want to be the tuner of choice for VAG owners.

Im sure many of you have heard of Shark Performance, and i know that within the Skoda community they have a very good reputation, intact we used a shark performance STS on our own S3 and would be the inly people i would use for a remap.

So moving onto the 2.0 184PS

We did plan on going to our usual dyno based at Motoscope in Northallerton as this is the dyno we've used for the last 8/9 years and their figures are consistent.

2009 our 2.0TDI Seat Leon produced 210bhp and 443nm
2013 our TT TDI produced 220bhp and 443nm of torque

In those 4 years we have tweaked and developed the software which is what we will do with the latest 2.0TDI'S.

As this new engine is going to be shot topic we decided to goto a different dyno, and chose Shark's in Mansfield, factor in that they also have their own Octavia vRS and are interested in seeing exactly what we can offer them for their customers who don't want their edu opened up..

I will be posting a full write up on this forum and many others later this week, to summarise the results from saturday..


In standard form the vRS produced

141bhp at the wheel - 179.2 at the flywheel and 378nm of torque at 3003rpm

we dynode several files that we had written using the bum dyno, and the figures ranged from 210bhp unto 226bhp, but th torque on all of these files was sitting between 475 and 490nm.

After a day working with Ben on the dyno we created a smooth drivable file that produced

183bhp at the wheel - 221bhp at the flywheel and 489nm at 2150rpm


anybody that's anybody will agree that those figures are worthless as we could take the same car to 6 other dynos and the figures would vary for me the important thing i always look at are the % increases at the wheel as this takes away all of the correction bull.

So if you look at the 141 to 183bhp figures you'll see that they have increased by 29.7%

So if we were to add 29.7% to 184ps quoted by VAG then the expected figure we could quote on our website would be 239PS


so there we go, the unachievable figure i mentioned above is actually achievable but in reality on sharks dyno we only produced 221bhp..

I hope you guys are following where I'm going with this?


Either way we do intend to take our car to our usual dyno, and run the same files that we did on saturday and i guarantee the figures will be different.


So if youre looking for a company that is passionate about tuning cars, and are in it for the long term then you know who to talk too..

And this is before the introduction of a 3 channel system we are looking to develop with Shark Performance









oh yeah, the dyno sheet..



and a video..

DTUK VRS 2.0 TDI 184 PS - YouTube


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Offline Sootchucker

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Re: EA288 2.0 TDI 184PS Development thread..
« Reply #1 on: 11 November 2013, 15:27 »
Seems pretty impressive Andrew, but I do have a few questions please.

I assume this is a plug in box rather than a map loaded directly onto the ECU, therefore, is there any evidence that the car has been mapped when it goes in for service?

My car is DSG equipped, and with 490nm of torque (mapped), are there any concerns over the gearbox and if the mechanism is able to cope with the extra torque ?

What sort of warranty will these come with - I'm more concerned with engine and ancillary warranties rather than the box itself ?

Monkeyhanger had one of these on test for a while in an attempt to coax a little more MPG out of his GTD. Whilst he commented it felt much stronger and faster, he didn't see any appreciable gains in MPG (although no worse considering the extra power), so again was wondering what sort of MPG gains (if any) would you advertise for these boxes. I.e. if someone didn't want to run in the full blow 220hp mode, but say a good trade off between power and economy (say an extra 20hp to 200 only) ?

What about brakes ? The PP GTI with 230ps uses larger discs and ventilated rears. Obviously the standard GTI with 220hp has the same brakes as a GTD, but I guess the GTD is heavier in the nose, so are there any recommendations over brake upgrades ?

Sorry for all the questions, but I'm quite new to the mapping scene (as I'm quite an old fart - well, compared to the toddlers on here  :grin:)
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Offline Andrew@DTUK

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Re: EA288 2.0 TDI 184PS Development thread..
« Reply #2 on: 11 November 2013, 16:27 »

Seems pretty impressive Andrew, but I do have a few questions please.

I assume this is a plug in box rather than a map loaded directly onto the ECU, therefore, is there any evidence that the car has been mapped when it goes in for service? - yes its a plug in module which connects to the common rail and boost pressure sensor

My car is DSG equipped, and with 490nm of torque (mapped), are there any concerns over the gearbox and if the mechanism is able to cope with the extra torque ? Thats a good question, and we currently do have a DSG equipped car running files that on our manual car produced 215bhp and 465nm of torque, again the system is adjustable so can be turned down if the end use wishes so.

What sort of warranty will these come with - I'm more concerned with engine and ancillary warranties rather than the box itself ?

we have product liability insurance, so if you can prove that the box caused the damage, then our insurance will kick in.

Monkeyhanger had one of these on test for a while in an attempt to coax a little more MPG out of his GTD. Whilst he commented it felt much stronger and faster, he didn't see any appreciable gains in MPG (although no worse considering the extra power), so again was wondering what sort of MPG gains (if any) would you advertise for these boxes. I.e. if someone didn't want to run in the full blow 220hp mode, but say a good trade off between power and economy (say an extra 20hp to 200 only) ?

as the box is adjustable, you don't have to run it at full swing, for example i travelled 313 miles at the weekend which included over 50 miles (static) and the skoda produced a brim to brim calculated 39.2 mpg

What about brakes ? The PP GTI with 230ps uses larger discs and ventilated rears. Obviously the standard GTI with 220hp has the same brakes as a GTD, but I guess the GTD is heavier in the nose, so are there any recommendations over brake upgrades ?

Sorry for all the questions, but I'm quite new to the mapping scene (as I'm quite an old fart - well, compared to the toddlers on here  :grin:)
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Offline Ian.C

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Re: EA288 2.0 TDI 184PS Development thread..
« Reply #3 on: 11 November 2013, 16:43 »
Andrew

I see form one of the picture you have your laptop plugged into the tuning box whilst on the rolling road....for some fine tuning I guess. Are you planning on doing a similar thing for the GTI plug in box you offer..??

Thanks
Ian
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Offline Andrew@DTUK

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Re: EA288 2.0 TDI 184PS Development thread..
« Reply #4 on: 11 November 2013, 17:03 »
Andrew

I see form one of the picture you have your laptop plugged into the tuning box whilst on the rolling road....for some fine tuning I guess. Are you planning on doing a similar thing for the GTI plug in box you offer..??

Thanks
Ian

Ian,

ill be honest with you and say YES..

As soon as we get a hold of a GTI we'll be heading back to Shark to see exactly what the kits are capable of.
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Offline Gnasher

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Re: EA288 2.0 TDI 184PS Development thread..
« Reply #5 on: 11 November 2013, 17:08 »
 :smiley:

Can't wait!

OK, I can, I don't take delivery until next year!!
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Offline Andrew@DTUK

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Re: EA288 2.0 TDI 184PS Development thread..
« Reply #6 on: 11 November 2013, 17:15 »
:smiley:

Can't wait!

OK, I can, I don't take delivery until next year!!

You're going to love it :)
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Offline corgi

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Re: EA288 2.0 TDI 184PS Development thread..
« Reply #7 on: 11 November 2013, 17:45 »
What about brakes ? The PP GTI with 230ps uses larger discs and ventilated rears. Obviously the standard GTI with 220hp has the same brakes as a GTD, but I guess the GTD is heavier in the nose, so are there any recommendations over brake upgrades ?

It might prove expensive but you could purchase the parts for the big brake kit on the GTI and fit them.

You're right to consider it though...
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Offline monkeyhanger

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Re: EA288 2.0 TDI 184PS Development thread..
« Reply #8 on: 11 November 2013, 18:26 »
The wet 6 speed DSG clutch set has historically been rated at 450Nm max since the early days, not sure if they've upped the rating recently, given that stock torque of the GTI and GTD have increased noticeably and are getting closer to that (possibly old and superceded) limit.
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Offline wigit

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Re: EA288 2.0 TDI 184PS Development thread..
« Reply #9 on: 11 November 2013, 18:35 »
i'd be more worried about the headroom on a manual clutch rather than DSG