Author Topic: Bloody noisy rear suspension.......  (Read 12733 times)

Offline fredgroves

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Re: Bloody noisy rear suspension.......
« Reply #30 on: 28 June 2015, 16:11 »
Whilst I accept that MQB isn't a "platform" per se, its more than just the bit you indicate there.

VAG has a massive shared parts bin - even if the parts themselves have labels saying VW, Audi, Skoda or Seat.

I'm guessing its probably hard to ask someone from VW if their shock is the same part (with a different label) to one of the others, but it probably is.

I guess the next question is, even if it is the same, does the Mk7 somehow have different geometry that could cause it to break? Quite possibly.

I wonder why you in particular seem to be able to break a rear shock in ~24hrs  - clearly not everyone breaks them. Is it your car that breaks them or something you do or drive over?

There's a lot of testing that would need to be done to answer that question - the first one if I was VW would be to loan you another non-DCC car for a few weeks and see if that did the same thing.

That's the most obvious path forward in my (troubleshooting for a job) brain.
Current: Mk8 GTI DSG, Adelaides, DCC, HUD, HK, Winter Pack, Rear Camera.. Aka "HMS Weasel"

Gone: 2017 Mk7.5 GTD,manual, NavPro
Gone: 2014 Mk7 GTD, manual, NavPro, DCC

Offline fuelboss

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Re: Bloody noisy rear suspension.......
« Reply #31 on: 29 June 2015, 15:06 »
Whilst I accept that MQB isn't a "platform" per se, its more than just the bit you indicate there.

VAG has a massive shared parts bin - even if the parts themselves have labels saying VW, Audi, Skoda or Seat.

I'm guessing its probably hard to ask someone from VW if their shock is the same part (with a different label) to one of the others, but it probably is.

I guess the next question is, even if it is the same, does the Mk7 somehow have different geometry that could cause it to break? Quite possibly.

I wonder why you in particular seem to be able to break a rear shock in ~24hrs  - clearly not everyone breaks them. Is it your car that breaks them or something you do or drive over?

There's a lot of testing that would need to be done to answer that question - the first one if I was VW would be to loan you another non-DCC car for a few weeks and see if that did the same thing.

That's the most obvious path forward in my (troubleshooting for a job) brain.

Fred,

I don't want to get into a discussion about MQB and different makes and models as all I am interesting in is ensuring that I either have a satisfactory working vehicle or money refunded.

It is not me in-particular that is "breaking a shock absorber" as you refer to it. I have many people contacting me who are in exactly the same position with shock absorbers that create a noise that becomes progressively worse over time. This can easily be seen on the golf MK7 Forum where there are more posts on this topic that on this forum.

I am not breaking anything, its the fact that the Shock absorber fitted by VW are either crap or something else within the suspension system is causing the shock absorbers to eventually become noisy. I have never broken a shock absorber in 50 years of driving and that includes a wide variety of vehicles across the most desolate and rough terrain in the world. I have an Alfa 156 that is now 16 years old and that car has driven the same routes, the same conditions and is perfect.

I have received emails over the past week where a number of us are in exactly the same position, have exactly the same number of shock absorber replacements and have exactly the same wrangle with VW.

As you may have see from the website I have created, VW do acknowledge an issue but now regard it as a characteristic or a residual noise. Those of us who have the noise do not agree with the decision of VWUK and that's why we are fighting to get this fixed once and for all or lets have the money back.

VW have not allowed me to have another GTI for any length of time or even for one hour as they say there is a scarcity of this model.

The only reason I posted on this site is to let others with a similar problem understand what is going on with VWUK today and their attitude and response to a number of very dissatisfied owners.

Out of interest can you tell me what you drive, your story is and whether you have had suspension issues with a Golf MK7.

Offline fredgroves

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Re: Bloody noisy rear suspension.......
« Reply #32 on: 30 June 2015, 07:50 »
I wasn't getting choppy with you, simply pointing out that the troubleshooting logic is thus:

1) There is a problem with the Mk7 GTI non-DCC rear suspension in all vehicles (ie a design fault) - not true, not everyone recognises this fault

2) There is a manufacturing problem with a batch of shock absorbers - not true from what you say, you've had multiple sets

3) There is a problem with particular Mk7 Golf GTI's  - yours amongst them.

4) There is something that you do or some condition that you subject your Mk7 Golf GTI to that breaks the shocks

That's the path, there is no other fault finding path as you hone the problem down.

I'm not saying "well you broke it mate", I'm simply demonstrating the logic.

Of course the other possibility is that the noise is something that other people don't notice or don't care about?

The thing in this episode that I'm most interested in seeing is if DEKRA actually think the shocks are mechanically faulty in any way.

BTW, I have a Mk7 GTD, with DCC, I've done 24k miles in just over a year. I can't say I've noticed any noise I'd call mechanical failure but (as I said in my review not so long ago on here) the rear passengers I occasionally carry do say that the noise in the back is loud enough that you can't hear the front passenger and driver talking to each other.

After our conversation on here yesterday, I drove around all day trying to discern any clunking noises, paranoia creeping in!

Really, honestly, earlier you said you suffered from tinnitus (now hold onto your hat, I'm genuinely not being rude or nasty here) - you don't think this might make you more subject to the general noise I described?

Current: Mk8 GTI DSG, Adelaides, DCC, HUD, HK, Winter Pack, Rear Camera.. Aka "HMS Weasel"

Gone: 2017 Mk7.5 GTD,manual, NavPro
Gone: 2014 Mk7 GTD, manual, NavPro, DCC

Offline fuelboss

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Re: Bloody noisy rear suspension.......
« Reply #33 on: 30 June 2015, 09:18 »
I wasn't getting choppy with you, simply pointing out that the troubleshooting logic is thus:

1) There is a problem with the Mk7 GTI non-DCC rear suspension in all vehicles (ie a design fault) - not true, not everyone recognises this fault

2) There is a manufacturing problem with a batch of shock absorbers - not true from what you say, you've had multiple sets

3) There is a problem with particular Mk7 Golf GTI's  - yours amongst them.

4) There is something that you do or some condition that you subject your Mk7 Golf GTI to that breaks the shocks

That's the path, there is no other fault finding path as you hone the problem down.

I'm not saying "well you broke it mate", I'm simply demonstrating the logic.

Of course the other possibility is that the noise is something that other people don't notice or don't care about?

The thing in this episode that I'm most interested in seeing is if DEKRA actually think the shocks are mechanically faulty in any way.

BTW, I have a Mk7 GTD, with DCC, I've done 24k miles in just over a year. I can't say I've noticed any noise I'd call mechanical failure but (as I said in my review not so long ago on here) the rear passengers I occasionally carry do say that the noise in the back is loud enough that you can't hear the front passenger and driver talking to each other.

After our conversation on here yesterday, I drove around all day trying to discern any clunking noises, paranoia creeping in!

Really, honestly, earlier you said you suffered from tinnitus (now hold onto your hat, I'm genuinely not being rude or nasty here) - you don't think this might make you more subject to the general noise I described?

Good morning Fred,

As you rightly say, it all comes down to the DEKRA report as to whether they consider there to actually be a fault or whether they consider the sound that I and many other report is acceptable. As I mentioned previously the noise is reduced considerably after fitting new shock absorbers but returns after a couple hundred miles or so and therefore something within that component is degrading.

People who have travelled with me have commented on the sound.

The master Tech at the dealer accepts there is a noise otherwise why do they change shock absorbers.

The Tech rep from Milton Keynes could clearly hear the noise and he compared it with another GTI and a GTI fitted with DCC and recommended changing the parts yet again.

The after sakes manager at the dealer told me that "something doesn't sound right" after he saw my two you tube videos where I show that just knocking the barrel of the shock absorber will produce a rattle. Also on one of those videos you can see a lateral movement of the shock absorber. Have you seen the two videos where I have the wheels of the car and where I am tapping the shock absorbers? Do you have view on that? My after sales managers view was something doesn't sound right, but nothing further has been said and when I have asked VW if what I demonstrate is correct or not, I just draw a blank. They will not answer questions.

I see that you drive a DCC fitted car and therefore you are unlikely to experience what we are experiencing as virtually all the reports of this noise are from owners of no-DCC cars

Below I show the content of just a few emails sent to me recently where other owners report the same issue, the similar number of replacements and the response from VWUK.

You mentioned yesterday about suspension geometry. Good point and one that I have raised but at no time at all has VW done anything else except change 3 sets of shock and one set of top mounts and the top mounts were my suggestion.

So we wait for July 20th and the DEKRA report and then I can post the results. As far as I can gather I am the firts person to have a DEKRA Inspection relating to this issue so no doubt there are a few owners ken to see what they have to say on this.

Rich

From VW Forum posted 28/06/2015
I'm from Poland and I'm an owner of 1,4 TSI golf with a lowered suspension. I've been following this thread here for a few months now, as my mk7 also suffers from the rattling noise. I was hoping to find good news here that the fix is finally available, but so far only bad news. I had my rear shock absorbers replaced once, but the noise returned. Now I regret buying the 17" alloy wheels with the lowered suspension, as my father's mk7 1,2 TSI with a standard suspension is a lot quieter. I hoped that VW will quickly find a fix for this issue, but I am pretty disappointed with how they deal with it. Working in the automotive industry with development projects, I can't believe that it is not possible to fix this problem. To me it seems they know how to solve it, but the costs would be way too high, so until they have their backs to the wall, they will not offer a real fix.

Received 28/06/2015 from xxxxxx xxxxxxxx
Hi Richard,
Thanks for all the info.
Seems like VW keep trawling the same old lines out, characteristic, operational, residual etc.
I don't have finance as such I had a 50% part exchange, 50% cash deal.
My car is 16 months old and has done 8000 miles.
I am happy for you to share my emails etc if it benefits you, don't mind you naming me either.
Regards
xxxxxx.

Received 05/06/2015
Hi Richard,
So after keeping my car for 8 days xxxxxxx VW today informed me that they cannot find where the fault is coming from!
They have arranged for a 'technical team' to look at the car on June 18th.
They are in no doubt how dissatisfied I am but say there is nothing they can do but follow procedure.
This is way beyond a joke now, I even showed them your you tube video on my phone!
So now I have the car back until I take it to the dealers again in 2 weeks.
Regards
xxxxxxxx.

Received 28/05/2015
Hi Richard,
Spoke to xxxxxxxxxxxx VW today, they've had the car for two days already and now want to install a " listening device" to record the noise the car makes to establish the cause of the problem.
They want to keep the car a few days and drive it around.
Apparently my car is the guinea pig car as VW are intrigued as to why the new stock absorbers didn't solve the problem!
I haven't told them yet that I'm aware of other people with this issue I want to see how much bs they come out with.
Regards
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Received 18/05/2015
Hi,
I have the same problem with my mk7 gti, I had the shock absorbers replaced by parkway VW at Derby just over a week ago.
The "noise" returned after 2 days and got gradually worse. I have the car booked in tomorrow for a demo to tech to demonstrate the noise has returned.
I bought the car second hand on March 1st and this will be the sixth time it has gone back to the dealer in 9 weeks. Various issues including faulty abs sensor and various rattles.
What did you have to do to get vw to offer you a refund?
I do like the car but can't accept it with the current suspension issue.
Regards
xxxxxxxxxxxxx.


Received 26/06/2015 from xxxxxxxxxxxxy
Hi Richard,
I've been waiting for this email from vwuk, it is their final report as they have now washed their hands of me.
They say they are closing the case "as agreed" but I actually requested the case stay open but was refused.
I now have a few options,
Sell or part exchange the car ( not with vw)
Get an engineer’s report then reject the car and take vw to court.
Try to correct the issue myself with new coilovers ( not even sure this would work)
None of these is particularly appealing but I have to do something as the noise is unacceptable.
Regards.


Hi Richard,
 
Thank you so much for sharing your experiences with me. It sounds like you have had a pretty rough deal with your car and I would be very interested to know the final outcome. Not really what we expect is it when we buy a premium product from a reputable manufacturer??!
 
I have just called VWUK customer services this morning and am awaiting a call back. As I said earlier, my car is now on the 3rd set of shocks and 2nd set of top mounts. I like you have wracked my brain over this issue, taking everything out of the boot, driving at different speeds on different road types etc. The amount of phone calls and trips to my local dealer in xxxxxxx has been quite consuming but the worst of it is I do not get the enjoyment from driving my car that I should and this is the bit that pisses me off the most. I know it should be a hard ride but not noisy… My previous GTi MkV was silent even after 80k miles.
 
Well I will let you know the outcome when it moves to the next stage. No doubt they will be cagey and dismissive of the issue and simply arrange for more shockers to be fitted.
 
And the irony of this is I love the VW Golf as a car and really do not want to get rid of mine but I just want them (VW) to care about my case as much as I do.
 
Regards
Mxxxxx.


Received 29/06/2015
Hi Richard,

Thanks ever so much for your detailed reply and I'm sorry about the delay in responding. My car was registered in July of last year but has less than 2000 miles on the clock. It has normal suspension.

The noise from my suspension actually seems to be more of a plasticy type rattle but the new shocks also creak quite badly when they load up at relatively low speed.

On the whole I'm pretty disappointed with VW build quality; my car has that many different rattles,  creaks and buzzes is quite difficult to keep track of them all. It's a real shame as I still think it's a good looking car with more than decent performance (and I owned a Porsche) previously.

The plan at the moment is to get the car back into the dealer and to see what they can do. I'll let you know how I get on and I'd of course be interested in your own outcome. I financed a small amount through VW purely to get two free services but I suspect I'd struggle to now reject the car.

Look forward to hearing from you.
Best wishes,

Received 29/06/2015
Hi Richard,

I was really interested to read your post on the Golf Mk 7 forum and to then stumble across your site. I'm on my second Golf after swapping the first under the 30 day exchange programme; noisy rear suspension was just one issue I had with it. Unsurprisingly, my new car has the same problem. New shocks fitted but it still sounds like a fifteen year old car. Booked back in to the dealers for early next month.

Am I right in thinking you managed to reject your car?

Look forward to hearing from you and well done for raising the profile of this issue.

Cheers,
Cxxxx.

« Last Edit: 30 June 2015, 22:22 by fuelboss »

Offline fredgroves

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Re: Bloody noisy rear suspension.......
« Reply #34 on: 30 June 2015, 09:32 »
Interesting.

Obviously VW aren't going to do any drastic parts swap outs nor admit to the problem if they can help it - simply because that's financial suicide. The only time they will react drastically is if its a safety issue and even then they (and other car makers) do a calculation that is a cost vs potential total compensation payout calculation (yes, businesses are this scheming even with peoples safety at stake).

Ignoring the guy with the lowered 1.4 TSI (which is a statistical outlier in every way), the rest seem to be GTI owners. I wonder if the GTI has a different set of non-DCC shocks?

Have you heard from any GTD owners? Are the GTI and GTD shock parts even the same?

I'd start getting people to give you the details - things like build dates, part numbers from the shocks, model etc etc.

You need to be a bit more scientific in your analysis to win I suspect.

Current: Mk8 GTI DSG, Adelaides, DCC, HUD, HK, Winter Pack, Rear Camera.. Aka "HMS Weasel"

Gone: 2017 Mk7.5 GTD,manual, NavPro
Gone: 2014 Mk7 GTD, manual, NavPro, DCC

Offline fuelboss

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Re: Bloody noisy rear suspension.......
« Reply #35 on: 30 June 2015, 14:38 »
Interesting.

Obviously VW aren't going to do any drastic parts swap outs nor admit to the problem if they can help it - simply because that's financial suicide. The only time they will react drastically is if its a safety issue and even then they (and other car makers) do a calculation that is a cost vs potential total compensation payout calculation (yes, businesses are this scheming even with peoples safety at stake).

Ignoring the guy with the lowered 1.4 TSI (which is a statistical outlier in every way), the rest seem to be GTI owners. I wonder if the GTI has a different set of non-DCC shocks?

Have you heard from any GTD owners? Are the GTI and GTD shock parts even the same?

I'd start getting people to give you the details - things like build dates, part numbers from the shocks, model etc etc.

You need to be a bit more scientific in your analysis to win I suspect.

I agree with you but its so bloody time consuming to get more data from owners. I think you are correct when you say it appears to be more GTI owners. We do have the part numbers of the shocks and VW parts department confirm what has been fitted has been correct but they don't have a clue as to the manufacturing date or will not say, just as VWUK will not answer questions.

Every time I ask the questions at to whether part numbers are the same for GTD models or any other model I get no response, as the parts department must have the reg number. I will have to look for GTD's and take the reg number and then call a parts department as that way I might learn something. later I will contact my dealer and ask the question as after all they should know.

Perhaps a post on this and the MK7 forum with this question may be a good idea.

Even today they are changing shock absorbers and other parts on a GTI but what for, as frequent replacements as you can see just don't function for very long.

Posted 28/05/15 on the MK7 Forum by another GTI owner
Hi I have a late 2014 gti with standard suspension. Its been at the dealers 3 times so far regarding rear rattle. The last time was 2 weeks ago. It was there a full week whilst the technicians tried to get to the cause. They swapped a lot of parts with a brand new gti but to no avail. They contacted vw and eventually got a reply saying that they are aware of a problem but at the moment there is no fix. The staff at xxxxxxxx think that there will be a fix soon but after reading the posts on this forum I'm not very optimistic.

Offline fredgroves

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Re: Bloody noisy rear suspension.......
« Reply #36 on: 30 June 2015, 21:59 »
I meant build dates on their cars, not the shocks... but definitely worth trying to get people to collate as much info as possible. You never know, a pattern in the data may appear...
Current: Mk8 GTI DSG, Adelaides, DCC, HUD, HK, Winter Pack, Rear Camera.. Aka "HMS Weasel"

Gone: 2017 Mk7.5 GTD,manual, NavPro
Gone: 2014 Mk7 GTD, manual, NavPro, DCC

Offline EdBee

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Re: Bloody noisy rear suspension.......
« Reply #37 on: 21 March 2019, 15:15 »
New GTi owner.  Bought car with 50,000 miles on it.  2014 model.  Immediately I noticed the widely reported rattle/knocks from the rear suspension, over minor road bumps.

Rather than ask VW to investigate, I bought a couple of Bilstein B4 shock absorbers (based on recommendations in the forums, Bilstein Part Number = 19-230559) and today replaced them myself.  I retained the top mounts.

Noise completely gone now. 

I cannot see any slackness or play in the the Sachs parts that I replaced;  I cannot explain why they were so noisy.

Hope this helps others with similar.