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Model specific boards => Golf mk4 => Golf mk4 TDI => Topic started by: archie837 on 14 October 2014, 08:51

Title: PD150 starting issue
Post by: archie837 on 14 October 2014, 08:51
Long time no see! Made a mistake and bought another mk4. At least it's an anni I guess.

Got a starting issue which has got me at my wits end pretty much.

Sometimes it needs to crank and crank to start and other times it'll fire up straight off.

So far -

Told it was camshaft sensor - changed with the belt and no different
Told it was the coolant temp sensor - changed out with an item for TPS and no different
Told it was the crankshaft sensor - changed out with a TPS item and no different
Told it was the battery - changed yesterday for a bigger item and no different - took ages to fire this morning.

fuel filter has been done with a bosch item recently.

So any ideas as I am stooped and so are the vw specialists round the back.
Title: Re: PD150 starting issue
Post by: thai-wronghorse on 14 October 2014, 16:36
How about glow plugs?
Title: Re: PD150 starting issue
Post by: archie837 on 14 October 2014, 23:01
Going to test them when I get a chance, but it was doing it in the summer too, so wouldn't have engaged them.

Mpg seems to be down a bit.

Got a horrible feeling it's an injector issue.

Changed the bit on top of the fuel filter - pressure reg or whatcha ma callit today.

No different.
Title: Re: PD150 starting issue
Post by: nav78601 on 15 October 2014, 12:03
check the glow plugs if not then may be could be the fuel injectors as you said lets hope its not that and its only a glow plug prob.
Title: Re: PD150 starting issue
Post by: Whimsa on 12 November 2014, 23:11
Hey
Have you sorted this problem yet?
I have a PD115 AJM and sounds like the same issue, it happens when the car is left for a while, at first I was thinking its a cold start problem and I have been researching and eliminated alot of problems commonly said, glow plugs, cam sensor, etc. I have eliminated one big one, the engine and its sensors! :-) I had a run away train a little while ago, the engine seized up, so I swapped in another one, still had the same starting problem. So I now predict a fuelling problem. I changed my one way valve, located between the filter and tandem pump, the one swapped out was fine but it was a cheap try. No luck unfortunately!
I believe fuel is running back to the tank because I have to crank it for 3-5 seconds, then she starts, I can turn her off and straight away try to start and she starts fine! So... I think its the lift pump that is my issue.
I found this...
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=208968
And although im not going to try it, I do think this is my issue, as its the last thing I can try, going to find one down the scrap yard when I can.
Hope this helps!
I here it squirt when I turn the key to position one, but I cant get it to squirt a second time
Title: Re: PD150 starting issue
Post by: archie837 on 13 November 2014, 15:17
seemed to get a lot better for a couple of weeks, starting straight off, but now having the same issue again.

its right down on mpg as well, but i think the boost hoses are knacked.
Title: Re: PD150 starting issue
Post by: Bellend on 14 November 2014, 12:07
Check fuel hoses for bubbles, you can see a clear hose near the fuel filter.

Air in the system on a PD engine won't need bleeding but if it is running back then it would take a bit longer to start.

My PD130 was doing similar and I swapped out the injector loom, back up to 65-70MPG (56MPH in 6th with a map) and it started when you breathed on the key, not even half a turn and it was offski.
Title: Re: PD150 starting issue
Post by: archie837 on 05 January 2015, 22:02
WELL

after being adamant about it not being plugs we tested them today.

All 4 all dead. Connected them up to a boost pack and they weren't heating up at all. Surprised the car started!

The real test will be in the morning to see if it's made a difference.

Next thing is to get at my egr as it's clogged solid, tried to get it off the other day but as someone else mentioned the bottom bolt is a right pig to get at. If anyone's got any tips that'd be great.
Title: Re: PD150 starting issue
Post by: EsSeX dAn on 06 January 2015, 00:44
remove the actual egr pipe itself for easier access to that bottom bolt. thrn blsnk the egr valve and the manifoldp
Title: Re: PD150 starting issue
Post by: archie837 on 06 January 2015, 09:31
Aye

well didn't start first time this morning, but didn't crank for nearly as long as before.

How long should the glow light on the dash come on for before it goes off? reason for asking is mine is only on for a split second, but the other diesels I've had stay on for about 3 seconds before going off.

So it could possibly be faulty harness or relay actually not powering up the plugs properly, hence it starting on the 3rd attempt this morning?
Title: Re: PD150 starting issue
Post by: archie837 on 06 January 2015, 19:21
So checked it out at work today

Harness doesn't seem to be powering up for the glow plugs

Got a blown 50amp fuse on the box on top of the battery - the one for the coolant temp/heater so bridged that with wire and no difference.

Went to check the relay under the steering wheel and autodata reckons there is a couple of options - either 4 or 10

But

There definitely looks like some are missing which is a bit odd / worrying
Title: Re: PD150 starting issue
Post by: archie837 on 08 January 2015, 15:10
NOPE

New harness here and doesn't make a blind bit of difference as the old one has continuity just the same as the new one.

doesnt appear to be power coming through the connector at the bulk head end of the glow plug loom, so gonna try a new relay to see if its burnt out / got a broken bit of solder causing the issue
Title: Re: PD150 starting issue
Post by: archie837 on 13 January 2015, 09:15
Relay was changed and no difference.

Think it's ignition switch is fooked - as it was cranking this morning without starting and now won't crank or power up.

Joy - car stuck at home which is 12 miles from work (garage) and 7 miles from my workshop  :laugh:
Title: Re: PD150 starting issue
Post by: archie837 on 15 January 2015, 11:33
No.

New ignition switch fitted and doesn't make a blind bit of difference.

So now been through the whole ignition system and other bits -

new glow plugs
new glow plug relay
new ignition switch
tested glow plug harness and is fine
coolant temp sensor done
crankshaft sensor done
camshaft sensor done
new battery.

A bit stumped.

EGR is a bit clogged - would that cause a starting issue? Cause the ASV to stick open / shut?
Title: Re: PD150 starting issue
Post by: Rhyso on 15 January 2015, 11:45
Fuel pump relay??

Is it totally random as to when it misbehaves or is it always after a cold night / parked on a driveway etc
Title: Re: PD150 starting issue
Post by: archie837 on 15 January 2015, 14:46
Fuel pump relay??

Is it totally random as to when it misbehaves or is it always after a cold night / parked on a driveway etc

HI RHYSO  :nerd:

Completely random. Sometimes fires straight up, other times just cranks and cranks and starts which i guess is the cylinders getting full enough and compressing.
Title: Re: PD150 starting issue
Post by: Rhyso on 15 January 2015, 16:12
Any smoke after startup??
Title: Re: PD150 starting issue
Post by: archie837 on 15 January 2015, 16:19
Aye - not really any if it fire straights up, but if it's been cranking for a bit there is quite a bit, but only hanging about, not really any when driving from cold
Title: Re: PD150 starting issue
Post by: Rhyso on 15 January 2015, 18:21
Drives ok once started? No knocks, rattles or misfires?

Just wondering if it could be the start of the dreaded chocolate cams??  :undecided:
Title: Re: PD150 starting issue
Post by: archie837 on 15 January 2015, 20:23
Yep drives absolutely fine.

Hope not as it's had an engine and turbo at vw in its life so far because of it :laugh:
Title: Re: PD150 starting issue
Post by: Rhyso on 15 January 2015, 21:49
Yep drives absolutely fine.

Hope not as it's had an engine and turbo at vw in its life so far because of it :laugh:

A new engine!!??   :shocked:

Try a new fuel pump relay or look at the fuel pump itself
Title: Re: PD150 starting issue
Post by: archie837 on 16 January 2015, 09:33
Yeah lol - it did the cam issue a while back, then a turbo later on so we're hopefully ok for a bit.

Title: Re: PD150 starting issue
Post by: archie837 on 23 January 2015, 15:49
FAULT CODES -

4141 - RPM sensor - signal improbable (crankshaft sensor was changed so possibly an old fault)
449C - inlet manifold pressure sensor - open circuit / positive short
44A1 - temp sensor intake manifold - open circuit / positive short
44A3 - Fuel temp sensor - open circuit / positive short

and the big one which doesn't sound good is

425D - control unit digital component defective........

Fuel temp sensor faulty could be the reason the glow plugs aren't powering up? Car thinks its 8 degrees all the time?

anyone have experience with the last one? ECU fault? Car is mapped so could have gone funny
Title: Re: PD150 starting issue
Post by: archie837 on 26 January 2015, 08:57
Got fuel last night - car started fine at the g/f's, but 2 mile down the road after chucking some fuel in it wouldn't start at all.

checked under the bonnet and it had melted the 50amp fuse on top of the battery - think it's the engine coolant heaters fuse.

bridged it with some wire and the car fired up.

I've replaced this before about a month ago, so where does this come from / go to as I guess theres an issue there as well.
Title: Re: PD150 starting issue
Post by: archie837 on 29 January 2015, 12:36
IT'S FIXED ITSELF!  :laugh:

Replaced the 50 amp fuse and since then it's fired straight up and have a glow plug light on first thing how it should be.

All I can think off is when the crankshaft sensor got replaced they never deleted the fault code out and this fuse was fooked again for a while.

unbelievably nice feeling knowing you have a car that will start. Time to possibly make it a bit nicer I think
Title: Re: PD150 starting issue
Post by: archie837 on 25 November 2015, 13:33
I'll update this.

Been a while since any issues touch wood.

It turns out the starting issue was never fixed itself.

What had happened where the idiots I used to work with had rethreaded my sump for an oversize plug, the swarf had made it into the sump itself.

This in turn was sticking to the pickup for the crankshaft sensor and blocking it.

Full sump off oil change done and we are spot on now.