Author Topic: Keyless car hacking  (Read 22210 times)

Offline Sootchucker

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Keyless car hacking
« on: 23 October 2017, 16:10 »
Just been speaking to a colleague at work, who live east Manchester area, and he told me 3 cars were lifted last night from his estate. All were keyless cars - one a new BMW M4, one a Mercedes Benz E class and one an Audi SQ7. All were caught on the individual house CCTV, (the thieves didn't even bother to cover their faces) and all cars gone within 45 seconds.

All were seen to be 2 men, one waving a bag around near the front door (obviously trying to pick up the key signal) and one near the car with another device. Within a few seconds the cars were unlocked and no more than 20 seconds later they were started and driven away.

Obviously this is getting more and more common, and is a concern to people like me that have keyless entry, but on checking things out on the web, I found this:

https://www.dataleaklawyers.co.uk/blog/volkswagen-vulnerable-to-key-hacking

The key point (no pun intended is) this paragraph :

Volkswagen have said to Automotive News that: “This current vehicle generation is not afflicted by the problems prescribed”. They claim that current Golf, Passat, Tiguan and Touran are not at risk.

Volkswagen has refused to comment on whether any other models have been affected – but, apparently, according to research, these flaws were also found on other Volkswagen Group vehicles like the 2016 Audi Q3.

This report was only on Volkswagen’s mass market brand. Many other companies such as Bentley, Bugatti, Lamborghini and Porsche are also part of the Volkswagen group, so these vehicles may also have the same vulnerability.

The vehicles on Volkswagen’s newest MQB platform do not seem to have the same vulnerability.

It will be interesting to see how Volkswagen handle this latest scandal…


Not sure I believe this, but is it true that the MK7 Golf (being on the MQB platform) doesn't suffer from this vulnerability ?



2022 Tiguan R-Line 2.0 TSI 4-Motion. Nightshade blue, pano roof, IQ lights, Nav Pro, Harmon Kardon, Heated Windscreen, Heated rear seats, Wireless charging, Heads up display, dual height boot floor, Keyless with electric tailgate, Electronic TPMS, underbody protection, Area View Cameras

Offline CocoPops

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Re: Keyless car hacking
« Reply #1 on: 23 October 2017, 16:14 »
Not sure, but this is exactly why I did not spec Keyless entry.
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Offline kalimon

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Re: Keyless car hacking
« Reply #2 on: 23 October 2017, 16:47 »
I got my 2 'Faraday cage' bag things yesterday and I can confirm that the car will not open when the keys are inside, even stood directly next to the car :smiley:
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Offline Talk-torque

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Re: Keyless car hacking
« Reply #3 on: 23 October 2017, 16:52 »
Easy enough to guard against. Keep the key somewhere in the house further from the car, buy one of those Faraday Cage thingys, or wrap the key loosely in aluminium foil, which works like a Faraday Cage and stops the keyless working, even when right next to the car door.

A similar problem was featured, on TV this morning, with contactless payment cards. Seems like we will need to develop stratagies for Near Field Communication technology.
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Offline Guzzle

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Re: Keyless car hacking
« Reply #4 on: 23 October 2017, 18:21 »
Well if there is a problem then what VW shouldn't be doing is causing panic amongst existing owners or advertising the existence of an issue to opportunist thieves.
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Offline fredgroves

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Re: Keyless car hacking
« Reply #5 on: 24 October 2017, 09:03 »
I don't know how you can fix it.... the mysterious carrier bag is a radio repeater - basically they extend the range of the keyless fob to the car using a repeater.

Like this: https://hackaday.com/tag/keyfob/

Its been around for some time!

Fundamentally, there is nothing the OEM can do against this.

As suggested here, either place your key as far away from the vehicle as you possibly can and/or put it in a radio supressing wrapper - tin foil lined box would do it. Remembering of course to do the same if you have a spare!!

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Offline scanesare

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Re: Keyless car hacking
« Reply #6 on: 24 October 2017, 09:19 »
Several incidents all over Europe I believe. I haven't, to this day, understood what problems or real inconveniences does a KESSY address other than being able to say "look ma, no hands" which is probably funny if you're below 8 and surprised by wireless technology. I'm not judging the people that like it or have it in their cars by choice, but to the manufacturers that have decided to offer what is in my eyes a useless, show-off feature without even properly addressing the vulnerabilities. Because you know in 6 months, the currently un-affected cars will be the next ones affected so you better switch to the next ones that are really un-hackable, but which also in another 6 months time will be hackable etc. etc.  Don't we have enough to worry about already in terms of car theft/safety?

Offline fredgroves

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Re: Keyless car hacking
« Reply #7 on: 24 October 2017, 09:49 »
Current: Mk8 GTI DSG, Adelaides, DCC, HUD, HK, Winter Pack, Rear Camera.. Aka "HMS Weasel"

Gone: 2017 Mk7.5 GTD,manual, NavPro
Gone: 2014 Mk7 GTD, manual, NavPro, DCC

Offline Hebegeebee

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Re: Keyless car hacking
« Reply #8 on: 24 October 2017, 10:21 »
I got my 2 'Faraday cage' bag things yesterday and I can confirm that the car will not open when the keys are inside, even stood directly next to the car :smiley:

Would you happen to have a link to what you bought? There's so many about it's difficult to sort the good from the bad. Thanks.
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Offline fredgroves

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Re: Keyless car hacking
« Reply #9 on: 24 October 2017, 10:44 »
Just ebay search for "faraday bag" and you'll see hundreds... some even stated for car keys.

Its pretty basic tech tbh, you can test it easily - keep it in the bag, try to open the car. If you can't then it works :D
Current: Mk8 GTI DSG, Adelaides, DCC, HUD, HK, Winter Pack, Rear Camera.. Aka "HMS Weasel"

Gone: 2017 Mk7.5 GTD,manual, NavPro
Gone: 2014 Mk7 GTD, manual, NavPro, DCC