GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk7 => Topic started by: Exonian on 16 September 2017, 14:32
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No, I'm not going to do it.
No, I'm not going to do it.
Just out of curiosity, who has put a Stage 1 on their ED40 Clubsport? I know there are a few knocking around out there.
I tried Stage 1 on my GTI PP and it was pretty good but it did suffer from the inevitable wheelspin.
I tried Stage 1 on my R and loved the extra torque so much that I almost never took the car over 4000 rpm which was a bit of a waste of a good engine, however I valued my licence too much. Incidentally I actually found the R more fun once I removed the map as I found I used the engine revs more.
I'd be very reluctant to mess up the excellence of the standard Clubsport chassis and engine combo in a car that's used solely for road use.
But I'm curious.
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I'll give it 2 week :grin:
Anyone want to open a book on the time it takes? :whistle:
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G.
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Just out of curiosity, does the jb4 add 40bhp to the 265 and 40bhp to the overboost 295? Or can you programme it to get 335bhp all the time?
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Run a JB1 on mine for over a year now and although not hitting full remap figures i am quite happy with what it offers vs cost. The chassis is more than capable to handle the extra power, handling is unaffected but there is noticeable more wheelspin in low gears - you will need better tires or you'll start missing the R... The JB4 is an even better product as it's said to be even more linear in its delivery and able to maintain the higher boost for a bit more at the end of the rev range due to access to the AFR so you can extract another 5-10bhp probably according to Burger's measurements. Only reason I haven't upgraded to it yet is it's a PITA to connect in and out and I still make dealer visits that require removal. JB1 is a 10min job.
Paul, where did you find the 40bhp figure? I'm pretty sure that's rather low even for the JB1, couple of dyno's I've seen show between 50-60 and JB4 adds a bit more to that (although random dyno values don't make much sense).
Re the overboost: With the JB1 you get 50-60bhp over what the car makes by default with over/under-boost limitation in mind. If you're in 1st or 2nd that's roughly 320-330, if you're 3rd+ (overboost on) that's more like 340-350bhp (for 10" of full throttle, but lift off resets it and you have another 10", mostly theoretical worry though).
JB4 has one mode where it can target specific absolute pressure (instead of adding boost to the car like the JB1). That way it is possible to make close to 360 in all gears and for as long as requested.
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Would the VWR air box make a difference on a CS or CSS without a remap?
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To Trev's point, after researching the best method.
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Thanks for the replies :afro:
I'm glad you lads running JB1/4 replied as that's what I had on my R and was unsure of how it would work with the overboost and therefore what settings it would have to be run with to prevent over-overboosting.
I do like to try different products when I buy different cars (even though they're all practically the same car in my case) but the JB1 had a lot going for it and the JB4 more so.
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Yes, thanks for the replies. It just a shame that the bottom of the engine plug is such a pain to put on and take off. I did ask George if they would consider doing some sort of loom extension to move this plug to higher up the engine so it could be accessed from the top. He did say someone did do them, but he thought they'd stopped due to costs and lack of take up.
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I agree Trev, that plug is a pain. I could reach it from the top on the GTI but no chance on the ED40.
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I agree Trev, that plug is a pain. I could reach it from the top on the GTI but no chance on the ED40.
Likewise with my R and GTI.
It was quite literally a pain in the neck doing the plug a couple of times a year but I learnt to do it one handed.
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To Trev's point, the JB4 does not override the overboost, as it just intercepts the ECU signals. There was talk the JB4 would have an override function but that would be invasive to ECU, so the additional power is added to the base power with or without overboost.
The JB4 does indeed over-ride the over-boost and here's the description from George of BMS himself: "On two of the maps it retains the over boost and then in map 6 which has absolute targeting (i.e. you punch in total boost you want) we over ride the over boost giving full power at all times. The mode of map 6 can also be changed to allow the overboost so users are not restricted when wanting to custom tune."
You must be familiar with how the JB1 works right? Traditionally, you just enter how much extra boost you want the car to make per rpm on top of what it makes as stock. The problem is in this situation you take for granted the car always makes the same boost on the same conditions which is true for 99% of the cars, but on a car with over/underboost mode like the CS, the car can make x.xx bar if you are in 2nd but y.yy bar when you are in 3rd and above and then drop back to x.xx if you flor it for more than 10". So the total boost every time depends on what base boost the car decides to make at each condition. The way to defeat this is to forget about boost increments and just enter absolute boost targets instead, that's only possible in JB4's map 6. Like that, even when the car makes less base boost because you're in 2nd or because you are on the throttle more than 10" the JB4 just fills in more to reach always the same boost target.
Just a note here, the car, this car in particular with this engine and turbo should have been hitting the same boost target at all times from factory so there is no "preserve the engine" argument really. That's how it works on all other variants of the same powertrain like the R, the S3 and even the fwd Cupra. The reason the over/underboost nonsense is present on the CS is because VW likes to separate it's models and wouldn't like the CS treading on the R's toes too much (a car that pulls faster than its flagship would't look good for the R which is anyway a model with far more importance for VW than an occassional special edition).
Paul, what mode are you running your JB4 on? Have you tried mode 6? I don't really see why would anyone run a JB4 on the CS and run it on anything other than map 6 having to bear with the stupid overboost. You can tone down the entire map slightly or at certain gears/rpm (another beauty of the JB4) but nowhere as close as 30bhp less as the stock overboost does.
I'm glad you lads running JB1/4 replied as that's what I had on my R and was unsure of how it would work with the overboost and therefore what settings it would have to be run with to prevent over-overboosting.
Rest assured there is no over-boost possible. On the contrary, the only thing that exists is under-boost as unless using JB4 on map 6, the car will always make less boost in 1st and 2nd, and on 3rd and above after 10" of WOT.
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REVO stage 1 here, did it at about 800 miles and less than a month old. Currently just coming up to 6k with no issues to report. Highly recommend it, a 370bhp GTI is great fun believe me... :grin:
(https://s25.postimg.org/cgkjztgnz/revo.jpg)
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Thanks Scanesare for the clear explanation, specifically how map6 works. Currently, I am just running the default map, which I believe is an increase of 4 PSI. I plan to experiment but have not got round to it yet.
Does map6 work the same on the JB1 and are you using this map on your JB1?
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Thanks Scanesare for the clear explanation, specifically how map6 works. Currently, I am just running the default map, which I believe is an increase of 4 PSI. I plan to experiment but have not got round to it yet.
Does map6 work the same on the JB1 and are you using this map on your JB1?
JB1 is not able to work with absolute pressures, that means I have to live with overboost on/off behaviour which translates into two stages of power, like in stock mode and the reason I will probably upgrade to JB4 (especially if you say the installation is not as bad as originally described). Map 6 on JB1 just allows you to select custom extra boost per rpm, Map 6 on JB4 allows for custom total boost (bypassing overboost) so I am just using the default Map 1 as I have no need for custom settings.
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REVO stage 1 here, did it at about 800 miles and less than a month old. Currently just coming up to 6k with no issues to report. Highly recommend it, a 370bhp GTI is great fun believe me... :grin:
(https://s25.postimg.org/cgkjztgnz/revo.jpg)
How's the clutch holding up? Not sure if the GTI, clubsport and R clutches are all the same but the clutches are supposed to be a bit marginal (which I found on my 'boxed' GTI PP).
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How's the clutch holding up? Not sure if the GTI, clubsport and R clutches are all the same but the clutches are supposed to be a bit marginal (which I found on my 'boxed' GTI PP).
So far so good, the software is the low boost option specifically for the manual.
Here's a quote from REVO:
"As vehicles are available with either a manual or DSG gearbox. Revo stage 1 software is available in 2 formats, low boost for manual gearboxes and a high boost for DSG and manual gearboxes with uprated clutches. The peak performance stays the same, however in the low boost software option our calibration engineers have been able to use torque management to limit boost at lower RPM before raising it to the same level as the high boost option. Offering protection of the stock clutch to help avoid slipping and reduce wear."
I accept that the clutch may not last as long as it would without the remap and consider it a consumable item like tyres, brakes etc... If it slips, i'll fit a better one. :wink:
For example here's a 500bhp manual REVO stage 3 7R with an organic helix race clutch:
http://www.ads-automotive.co.uk/mk7-golf-r-remap/ (http://www.ads-automotive.co.uk/mk7-golf-r-remap/)
Many other options are available.
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REVO stage 1 here, did it at about 800 miles and less than a month old. Currently just coming up to 6k with no issues to report. Highly recommend it, a 370bhp GTI is great fun believe me... :grin:
Over-boost deleted I presume? Also, any dyno sheet? Always nice to look at the curves.
Cheers
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Forget stage 1 - I'm looking to buy a clubsport in the future and straight to stage 2 lol.
400(ish) BHP through the front wheels anyone? Probably useless in first and second but after that it'll be a hoot!
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Over-boost deleted I presume? Also, any dyno sheet? Always nice to look at the curves.
Cheers
Here you go...
(https://s25.postimg.org/7eh0a9bj3/revo.jpg)
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Will the turbo intake pipe make a difference on an otherwise standard car?
I see there is a couple of different types at awesome gti
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what you want is someone to put the oem club sport s map on it
i have to admit 370 through some 225s on a fwd doesn't really float my boat these days
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what you want is someone to put the oem club sport s map on it
i have to admit 370 through some 225s on a fwd doesn't really float my boat these days
Why would you want that? Torque is the same and anyway on overboost CS is making a bit over 290 already so you most probably couldn't tell the difference. I can understand people wishing to remove the stupid overboost as you never know how much you'll make but the CSS map is nothing to get excited about, just a stock Golf R/S3 map.
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Will the turbo intake pipe make a difference on an otherwise standard car?
I see there is a couple of different types at awesome gti
It will make a big difference if you focus a lot and believe it :wink: I mean all that second (third, fourth...) order stuff is just for when you can't have enough of your tuning drug and want to continue adding stuff, hardly any real world benefits. I mean ok it's not as awful as an intake but still you could find better uses for your 60-80£
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How's the stage 1 urge Exonian?
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How's the stage 1 urge Exonian?
I'm good at resisting urges (unless food is involved!) :grin:
Once the first service is out of the way next March I might give it more thought.
My insurance will be up for renewal then too.
The car is doing so few miles at present I'm quite happy with standard tune and a pedalbox.
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So, over a week later...Is it really just me? Come on, fess up..... :smiley:
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So, over a week later...Is it really just me? Come on, fess up..... :smiley:
Wellll...
No.
No, it's not going to happen. I'm a new me.
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So it is just me then... :cool:
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I've not personally but a guy at my work has apr stage 1 software with r600 intake and he got 385bhp
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I've not personally but a guy at my work has apr stage 1 software with r600 intake and he got 385bhp
Cool, so I'm not the only one then... Obviously I knew that just wondering how many admitted it...
May I ask, manual or DSG?
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I've not personally but a guy at my work has apr stage 1 software with r600 intake and he got 385bhp
Cool, so I'm not the only one then... Obviously I knew that just wondering how many admitted it...
May I ask, manual or DSG?
Rwleigh, couple of questions: 1) Did you have the over-boost function deleted or not? 2) Have you done any data-logging of the remap? Wanting to cross-check some mixture values vs a full remap like REVO.
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scanesare, are you running your JB1 with the default 4.8 Map 1 setting or have you upped it to 5?
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scanesare, are you running your JB1 with the default 4.8 Map 1 setting or have you upped it to 5?
I have now switched to JB4 where Map 1 is +4 psi and Map 2 +5.6 psi but I am trying to set up Map 6 that works on absolute boost and completely bypasses over-boost. However it seems it's a bit complicated.
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scanesare, are you running your JB1 with the default 4.8 Map 1 setting or have you upped it to 5?
I have now switched to JB4 where Map 1 is +4 psi and Map 2 +5.6 psi but I am trying to set up Map 6 that works on absolute boost and completely bypasses over-boost. However it seems it's a bit complicated.
Have you asked for a step by step instruction from George at Burgersport? He really helpful when members ask questions on the R Forum.
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scanesare, are you running your JB1 with the default 4.8 Map 1 setting or have you upped it to 5?
I have now switched to JB4 where Map 1 is +4 psi and Map 2 +5.6 psi but I am trying to set up Map 6 that works on absolute boost and completely bypasses over-boost. However it seems it's a bit complicated.
Have you asked for a step by step instruction from George at Burgersport? He really helpful when members ask questions on the R Forum.
Yep, we've been working together on this but still not satisfied with the values I get in Map 6 and wanted to compare with a remap.
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Rwleigh, couple of questions: 1) Did you have the over-boost function deleted or not? 2) Have you done any data-logging of the remap? Wanting to cross-check some mixture values vs a full remap like REVO.
1) As far as I know there is no over-boost with the REVO map just whichever setting I choose with my SPS from stock 265bhp to 345bhp and 370bhp, depending on fuel used.
2) No but I'd be very interested to know how and what with to assist you if I can?
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Rwleigh, couple of questions: 1) Did you have the over-boost function deleted or not? 2) Have you done any data-logging of the remap? Wanting to cross-check some mixture values vs a full remap like REVO.
1) As far as I know there is no over-boost with the REVO map just whichever setting I choose with my SPS from stock 265bhp to 345bhp and 370bhp, depending on fuel used.
2) No but I'd be very interested to know how and what with to assist you if I can?
Good that the over-boost is gone, it's only complicating things esp. when you tune. Well, if you have any sort of data logging equipment (VCDS or JB4 (you probably don't need that :smiley:) or OBDEleven although not sure how easy it is to data log with OBDEleven) it could be all that I need. A couple of pulls in 3rd and 4th gear logged, so that I can compare values and see what happens in other tunes.
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Good that the over-boost is gone, it's only complicating things esp. when you tune. Well, if you have any sort of data logging equipment (VCDS or JB4 (you probably don't need that :smiley:) or OBDEleven although not sure how easy it is to data log with OBDEleven) it could be all that I need. A couple of pulls in 3rd and 4th gear logged, so that I can compare values and see what happens in other tunes.
An OBDeleven I do have, never done data logging with it but I assume this is what you need?
https://youtu.be/w818pgcE1-0 (https://youtu.be/w818pgcE1-0)
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Good that the over-boost is gone, it's only complicating things esp. when you tune. Well, if you have any sort of data logging equipment (VCDS or JB4 (you probably don't need that :smiley:) or OBDEleven although not sure how easy it is to data log with OBDEleven) it could be all that I need. A couple of pulls in 3rd and 4th gear logged, so that I can compare values and see what happens in other tunes.
An OBDeleven I do have, never done data logging with it but I assume this is what you need?
https://youtu.be/w818pgcE1-0 (https://youtu.be/w818pgcE1-0)
Yes I had seen that video but I'm not sure it's enough to figure out all the values one would like to log. For starters, he directly enters some channels that correspond to actual/requested boost but what about the rest of the values? I see no mention of how you can log other stuff (unless it's easy to google them).
For my case I'm mostly interested in the AFR and Boost values. Doing a pull in 3rd gear from 2K down all the way up to the end of 3rd gear and into 4th would be a good place to start from as I want to see what AFRs REVO runs in this car.
If you feel like trying to log those then you are absolutely welcome and would be doing me a great favor in fact. :wink:
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l have a play with it this weekend and see what I can find out...
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l have a play with it this weekend and see what I can find out...
Sounds great.
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Just had a look at the live data options and at first glance I can't see AFR that you're wanting to know. There are however an awful lot of data feeds to look at and it may be in there somewhere and I just haven't found it yet.
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Just had a look at the live data options and at first glance I can't see AFR that you're wanting to know. There are however an awful lot of data feeds to look at and it may be in there somewhere and I just haven't found it yet.
you got PM :wink:
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I'm getting there Mike, I think this is what you're after. Just need more spare time to do some logging and send it to you... :smiley:
(https://s25.postimg.org/w0x2lr0fz/obdeleven.png)
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So it worked as expected, great! now all that's left is finding an empty road :tongue: I like Monday nights in particular...