GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk8 => Topic started by: Exonian on 01 February 2021, 18:43
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With the prices not massively different at basic list, just out of interest, would you go for a mk8 Clubsport over an R or not?
I’m curious to know why.
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For me its insurance. Being 22, no one will insure me on an R unless i pay silly money. The clubsport is a definite upgrade from my 1.4 scirocco :grin:
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I’m surprised at the insurance being less.
My Clubsport was dearer to insure than my M135i (which was also cheaper than the GTI TCR I had previously).
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With the caveat that I haven't driven either!
For the Mk7 CS over R anyday, this has also been the case with the 2x mk7.5 R owners who have driven my CS.
On to the mk8 and the R seems to have upped it's game with the more playful 4wd system, the main issue is that by the time you have specced the performance options on the R, you are around £50k ?
At that price point of the R you would want, the CS looks reasonable value?
I still think they are distinct models, so would have to drive both to see if the R was worth paying up for, it may well be this time?
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IF, I was considering a Mk8, it would be between these two. I think I would be more inclined to an R, partly as having had two GTIs now I'd want something at least a bit different. They have also finally made the interior more interesting on the R which is important and the extra traction off the line sounds good. Of all the reviews I've seen online so far only the R has had my full attention. But, my TCR is just too good overall for this to be a likelihood, what I really want is to move to a house with a decent garage so I can get a classic, something with some real character and just the things you really need for driving, none of the total nonsense that you get on every car now that we think we can't survive without. And two (or three) twin choke Webers!
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If I was in the market for a Mk8 it’d be the Clubsport. I absolutely love my R and am glad I bought one but for me there’s just something about a gti. With the R I’d have to have the performance pack and then the price difference is much bigger. Ideally I’m hanging on for the Ed45.
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Not in the market for either but if was it would be the CS. More than enough performance for me and prefer the looks. Also like the AV seats. As an aside, colour choice on the R is limited though I guess more will be added.
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Of the two, I'd choose the clubby.
Mainly because the R would almost certainly end up with me paying bandit tax and I'm refusing to do that.
For me it was a choice of GTI with options or clubby without. My pocket couldn't stand both. I like my options :)
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For me it would be the Clubsport too. Partly due to cost but also I reckon the GTi looks better, certainly did in the 7.5. The Mk 8 R maybe looks better but there is still that special look of a GTi which the CS nails perfectly.
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Having previously owned a 7.5R, I went for the CS over the R because ;
- 300 bhp compared to 320 bhp is not a great difference
- Like the seats on the CS
- prefer the front end design of the CS (don’t mind Matt black plastic)
- wanted a silver colour
Factoring the cost, it was an easy choice for me.
Only thing I m not too keen on is the Richmond alloys (prefer the standard alloys on the R)
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I'd go for the R just so I could have Lapiz Blue.
That probably makes me shallow :tongue:
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IF, I was considering a Mk8, it would be between these two. I think I would be more inclined to an R, partly as having had two GTIs now I'd want something at least a bit different. They have also finally made the interior more interesting on the R which is important and the extra traction off the line sounds good. Of all the reviews I've seen online so far only the R has had my full attention. But, my TCR is just too good overall for this to be a likelihood, what I really want is to move to a house with a decent garage so I can get a classic, something with some real character and just the things you really need for driving, none of the total nonsense that you get on every car now that we think we can't survive without. And two (or three) twin choke Webers!
Neither comes with a manual box, so I wouldn’t have either.
I’m with you, Watts- I’d rather have this-
https://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C1091995
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Neither. No manual option. :sad:
If they both had a manual option then it would be the clubsport as i already have a 4WD car incoming to fill that role.
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what I really want is to move to a house with a decent garage
:smiley: I do like your priorities. I smile when people normally youtubers who have the latest greatest car or supercar don't even have a garage.
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Neither comes with a manual box, so I wouldn’t have either.
I’m with you, Watts- I’d rather have this-
https://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C1091995
I've had one of those :grin: A little newer though with the plastic bumpers. A 1985 Sprint Veloce with twin Dellortos. I would really, really, really highly recommend NOT going there! It was tough keeping up with the problems when it wasn't all that old, at the age they are now, it would just be a garage ornament. In reality, engine and even the rust was okay, the problem was everything else and I really mean everything. Absolute nightmare. Mind you, it was fantastic to drive but that wouldn't tempt me back.
what I really want is to move to a house with a decent garage
:smiley: I do like your priorities. I smile when people normally youtubers who have the latest greatest car or supercar don't even have a garage.
:laugh:
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Neither comes with a manual box, so I wouldn’t have either.
I’m with you, Watts- I’d rather have this-
https://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C1091995
I've had one of those :grin: A little newer though with the plastic bumpers. A 1985 Sprint Veloce with twin Dellortos. I would really, really, really highly recommend NOT going there! It was tough keeping up with the problems when it wasn't all that old, at the age they are now, it would just be a garage ornament. In reality, engine and even the rust was okay, the problem was everything else and I really mean everything. Absolute nightmare. Mind you, it was fantastic to drive but that wouldn't tempt me back.
That’s interesting. I’m actually quite grateful for the advice. If this car was in the uk I’d be tempted to have a look. I’ve heard one started up on a YouTube video- a 1.5 I think- I tell you the engine sounded utterly beautiful. I’ll stick to old Peugeots I think.
Sorry to derail the thread.. back to this modern stuff 😉...
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That’s interesting. I’m actually quite grateful for the advice. If this car was in the uk I’d be tempted to have a look. I’ve heard one started up on a YouTube video- a 1.5 I think- I tell you the engine sounded utterly beautiful. I’ll stick to old Peugeots I think.
Sorry to derail the thread.. back to this modern stuff 😉...
The engine was fantastic even for a 1.3, zippy and responsive. But the inboard disc brakes were a pain and as the handbrake was also connected to the front calipers you had to manually adjust them using a feeler guage (regularly...). Seat foam would give up and springs would break. A spring went in the door lock so the drivers door would swing open on a tight bend. Front strut bearings would only last a couple of years, no adherence to the colours of the wiring diagrams so electrical issues would become more difficult to sort. Rear window winders would seize and the rear discs would corrode badly as most braking was at the front etc etc etc... :laugh:
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As this thread has selected drift mode and has veered way off topic! :)
Watts, you mentioned you fancied something classic with perhaps, up to 3 x twin choke Webers.
That implies a 6 or 12 pot engine, what do you have in mind?
I have a single weber twin choke downdraft on a Burton fully modified Mexico lump, carbs have so much more character than fuel injection. :)
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As this thread has selected drift mode and has veered way off topic! :)
Watts, you mentioned you fancied something classic with perhaps, up to 3 x twin choke Webers.
That implies a 6 or 12 pot engine, what do you have in mind?
I have a single weber twin choke downdraft on a Burton fully modified Mexico lump, carbs have so much more character than fuel injection. :)
Sorry for the drifting :whistle:
4 or 6 cylinder, I don't think my budget would ever stretch to the sort of 12 cylinder that would warrant that much carburation! No idea at the moment, the chances of moving anytime soon make it a moot point...
Now, what numbers shall I do in the lottery this week? :laugh:
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I would go for an R if under the £40k tax bracket, but I actually think the CS looks better, I think R's are going to suffer second hand values because how many people will want to pay £450 per year on for just 320HP?
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I would go for an R if under the £40k tax bracket, but I actually think the CS looks better, I think R's are going to suffer second hand values because how many people will want to pay £450 per year on for just 320HP?
I think you will see most R's with zero options - or maybe just one that keeps it under the tax threshold (eg a colour)
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Give it a few months, once supply of these cars picks up maybe favourable lease deals will appear again?
That may decide which is the better short term ownership proposition?
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Well, if you are leasing then road tax is included in the lease price, so will be invisible. I doubt if anyone will care about the road tax price but only because they don't explicitly write a cheque for it.
Its the second hand market where people will maybe shy away from owning a "luxury" car.
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The additional tax for vehicles over £40k is only payable in years 2 to 6, so the older it is the less it matters.
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The additional tax for vehicles over £40k is only payable in years 2 to 6, so the older it is the less it matters.
Huh?, it’s payable for the first 5 years
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I guess he means if you buy one secondhand at 3 years old, you are only paying the extra 300 quid a year road tax for 3 of them... if its 4 years old its only twice and so on.
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I guess he means if you buy one secondhand at 3 years old, you are only paying the extra 300 quid a year road tax for 3 of them... if its 4 years old its only twice and so on.
Oh yeah guess so, but most people will be buying one 1-2 years old?
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Some people pay that for an R32 :wink:
I always laff when people go on about road tax.
Most tge ones that complain then go buy an expensive takeaway coffee or something similar a day which is more a waste.
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Some people pay that for an R32 :wink:
I always laff when people go on about road tax.
Road tax isn’t a laughing matter for me, we only do about 3k per year, I think it should be put on fuel instead, more you drive the more you pollute the more you pay
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Some people pay that for an R32 :wink:
I always laff when people go on about road tax.
Road tax isn’t a laughing matter for me, we only do about 3k per year, I think it should be put on fuel instead, more you drive the more you pollute the more you pay
so fully electric cars don't pay anything which in turn will put the price up for everyone else? All cars on the road should be paying something and the money generated should go into road upkeep, something that doesn't happen now.
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Some people pay that for an R32 :wink:
I always laff when people go on about road tax.
Road tax isn’t a laughing matter for me, we only do about 3k per year, I think it should be put on fuel instead, more you drive the more you pollute the more you pay
so fully electric cars don't pay anything which in turn will put the price up for everyone else? All cars on the road should be paying something and the money generated should go into road upkeep, something that doesn't happen now.
Yep agree but where is the money going?, it’s certainly not going into the air we breathe, also not all electric cars are free, my parents in law have a Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV and it’s £140 on tax
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Road tax isn’t a laughing matter for me, we only do about 3k per year, I think it should be put on fuel instead, more you drive the more you pollute the more you pay
Don't disagree. I only do about 6k before covid and have to pay 3 sets of road tax. :wink:
So i do agree with you.
But the way i look at it is whats the daily cost rather than yearly. What is the gain for the extra cost.
But people who make coments at work about it normally waste far more money daily. Which is what makes me laff.
Daily Takeaway coffees, sandwitchs from the van. Takeaways Etc etc.
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Some people pay that for an R32 :wink:
I always laff when people go on about road tax.
Road tax isn’t a laughing matter for me, we only do about 3k per year, I think it should be put on fuel instead, more you drive the more you pollute the more you pay
so fully electric cars don't pay anything which in turn will put the price up for everyone else? All cars on the road should be paying something and the money generated should go into road upkeep, something that doesn't happen now.
Well they still pay luxury car tax, it's only the basic 150 quid they don't pay.
At the moment... Change is coming, they recognise the revenue hole that's opening up but in order to get the whole thing off of the ground they needed some financial incentive.
Likely as not the new system is road pricing, they just haven't figured out exactly how it's going to work. Black box is the arguably fairest mechanism but has privacy issues. It also would enable them to charge for different types of road. City driving is expensive, motorways cheaper, rural roads even cheaper. Doubt they will do it because of privacy.
I expect the solution to simply be that you have to visit an mot station for an annual mileage recording and payment. Low tech, cheap to implement, no spying problems.
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That'll probably just mean an even bigger market in clocking cars.
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That'll probably just mean an even bigger market in clocking cars.
You cant cover everything
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Well they still pay luxury car tax, it's only the basic 150 quid they don't pay.
Alas no, EV's do not pay the luxury car tax. From gov.uk;-
Vehicles with a list price of more than £40,000
You have to pay an extra £325 a year if you have a car or motorhome with a ‘list price’ (the published price before any discounts) of more than £40,000. You do not have to pay this if you have a zero emission vehicle.
You only have to pay this rate for 5 years (from the second time the vehicle is taxed).
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Yep thats right, Hybrid's also used to be zero tax but not anymore
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Oh ok.
Its all a moving thing anyway and they don't ever change existing tax regimes.
We have a F56 mini that pays 30 quid a year and a clapped out fiesta that pays 290 - both on different tax schemes to my Mk7.5 GTD.
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Oh ok.
Its all a moving thing anyway and they don't ever change existing tax regimes.
We have a F56 mini that pays 30 quid a year and a clapped out fiesta that pays 290 - both on different tax schemes to my Mk7.5 GTD.
Yep the bastards are always looking at different ways to screw you!, we just bought our 18 year old son a 2006 Golf MK5 1.4 thinking it would be £160 per year, its now changed to £240 :angry:
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Would actually go for the R, even though presently a TCR driver and very happy one from being a previous R owner.
Reason is think the R just looks better - the caveat is that would want the performance and Akra to be clear choice over the Clubsport.
Am interested to see what the ED 45 has to offer when details truly come out.
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Didn’t get chance to take a snap but saw my first Golf 8R in the flesh yesterday.
Lapiz Blue in I’d guess standard spec sat on a dealer forecourt.
Not the best of days to show off the signature colour and it looked very plain viewed side on with the standard 18” wheels, but the front and rear ends look way better than in photos.
The front bumper has way more prescience than a mk7 R and the rear diffuser looks well proportioned and mean.
The shiny plastic slats look nice and easy to clean (compared to the GTI honeycomb at least) but will be a nightmare for swirls.
I liked the standard cloth seats.
The Performance Pack ones will look really good.
Quite a few jokes on here about £50k R’s owing mostly to the incredulity that you can easily spec a Golf to that sizeable amount nowadays, but the reality is you don’t need to spend quite that much to get a nice R by being sensible with spec and maximising discounts and incentives.
I put this thread up originally to see what people’s thoughts were being as the two models are fairly close on power and price sans extras. Most people shared the view (myself included) that the R needs quite a lot extra spending on it to get it to be what they’d like it to be. Having seen one in the metal now I reckon with a decent set of 19’s on it you could easily get away with having a fairly vanilla R and not feel a bit like there’s something missing.
And before anyone says it, no I’m not :grin: :tongue:
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Be honest, you’ve ordered it already. :grin:
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:grin:
As if!!
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White's your colour isn't it?
:wink:
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You've definitely ordered one, it's been over a week since you last swapped cars.
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White's your colour isn't it?
:wink:
Seems that way!
I actually prefer greys and silvers. Would have loved Moonstone.
You've definitely ordered one, it's been over a week since you last swapped cars.
Current lead times point to it being built just as my four year PCP comes to an end. Perfect! :grin:
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Mr Chapple’s view on the subject https://youtu.be/k0OZzEZ5QD4 (until his order goes in for an R :whistle: )
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Mr Chapple’s view on the subject https://youtu.be/k0OZzEZ5QD4 (until his order goes in for an R :whistle: )
He’s always interesting to listen to.
His preference is always for lighter cars, he’s not a big fan of AWD- in contrast to Matt Watson who spends half his life drag racing :whistle:
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Mr Chapple’s view on the subject https://youtu.be/k0OZzEZ5QD4 (until his order goes in for an R :whistle: )
Thats car dealers for you. :grin:
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He’s pretty candid though. He says clubsport better for his channel than R.
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He seems to prefer smaller and lighter unless he’s in an Audi V8 Quattro barge kind of mood.
He likes his all wheel drive four ring leviathans as much as his Golfs.
Fair point made in the vid that the R was mainstream and therefore going to be done to death by the mass market car “influencers” (I detest that term despite its accuracy) who can drift mode around private circuits on bigger budgets.
Andrew’s market being 99% VW group die-hard enthusiasts brings in different parameters, he’s been around a good long while and was good friends with Neil Birkitt so is well tuned in. Feedback from social media probably steers him quite a bit too.
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Is this not a money isue only? :smiley:
Will the CS be better and faster than the R in some point?. I know the CS used to be the better trackcar...But that seems not be the case now?!..
Or?... :whistle:
But the CS is a awesome bangs for buck!, and have the best interior seats!!
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4wd is not without its downsides.
As volkswizard correctly points out, once moving there is very little performance difference difference and you need to spend even more to get the big willy spoiler on the R.
I think as much as the clubby puts a question mark over the gti, i think it does to the R too.
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Is this not a money isue only? :smiley:
Will the CS be better and faster than the R in some point?. I know the CS used to be the better trackcar...But that seems not be the case now?!..
Or?... :whistle:
But the CS is a awesome bangs for buck!, and have the best interior seats!!
The money difference isn’t huge aside from the fact you need to spend a lot on extras for the R to make it the car you’d want it to be.
Fastest when the speed limit is 70mph is a little irrelevant in the UK. :lipsrsealed:
I’m sure with torque vectoring on the rear the R will be quicker round a track if that’s your thing.
With drift mode it’ll be great for the late night car park crew.
And from the traffic lights the R will always be top dog by a big margin.
So 3/3 for the R.
Trouble is not everyone wants the range topper just because it has the best spec sheet and the most exhaust tips.
How about most fun at sensible fairly legal speeds and a modicum of skill needed to drive it?
Maybe the 8R will win that one too, I for sure have no idea.
In fact at those speeds I’m sure the regular 245 GTI would be just as good.
Not everyone *wants* an R
Personally I think if you want a Clubsport you ought to keep the spec fairly simple (it’s hardly lacking as standard) because once you get into R money then you really need to ask yourself the question.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=znpbth3CPJo
Blimey. What a machine.
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They’ll sell by the bucketload with all the positive reviews. Imagine what a stage 1 R will be like!
VW did a customer feedback panel with R owners via marketing agencies a couple years ago surrounding mk8 R development, the hints at the time (via the agency) were it would have around 360PS. We assumed back then it might be hybrid, seems they don’t need that electrical assistance to make the numbers though... :cool:
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4wd is not without its downsides.
As volkswizard correctly points out, once moving there is very little performance difference difference and you need to spend even more to get the big willy spoiler on the R.
I think as much as the clubby puts a question mark over the gti, i think it does to the R too.
Yes but in this case have realy the R any downsides to the GTI?...haven´t seen any yet..All that have driven both says that the R is sick..:)
And yes i have a 7.5 GTI and soon a Mk8R...and still think the CS intead of the R in the mk8 is the money...the R seems sick :whistle:
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Is this not a money isue only? :smiley:
Will the CS be better and faster than the R in some point?. I know the CS used to be the better trackcar...But that seems not be the case now?!..
Or?... :whistle:
But the CS is a awesome bangs for buck!, and have the best interior seats!!
The money difference isn’t huge aside from the fact you need to spend a lot on extras for the R to make it the car you’d want it to be.
Fastest when the speed limit is 70mph is a little irrelevant in the UK. :lipsrsealed:
I’m sure with torque vectoring on the rear the R will be quicker round a track if that’s your thing.
With drift mode it’ll be great for the late night car park crew.
And from the traffic lights the R will always be top dog by a big margin.
So 3/3 for the R.
Trouble is not everyone wants the range topper just because it has the best spec sheet and the most exhaust tips.
How about most fun at sensible fairly legal speeds and a modicum of skill needed to drive it?
Maybe the 8R will win that one too, I for sure have no idea.
In fact at those speeds I’m sure the regular 245 GTI would be just as good.
Not everyone *wants* an R
Personally I think if you want a Clubsport you ought to keep the spec fairly simple (it’s hardly lacking as standard) because once you get into R money then you really need to ask yourself the question.
But still just a money isue?, a bit disapointed that the CS didn´t offer something that the R already has..
But is a bargain! :smiley:
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The clubby has several things the R doesn't have....different front end geometry and a 80kg crash diet for a start. Oh and a wing that you have to pay for on the R.
The R you are paying heavily for heavy awd and then paying on top for things they could have easily included on the base vehicle.
Vw clearly knew their audience though, no shortage of people who want the R it seems... Or are those all just YouTube comment fantasies?
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Having seen the countless R drag-race videos, it is very impressive. No doubt about that. If I was making the choice now, would I choose the R over the ClubSport? Na. The weight difference speaks for itself, I like that the ClubSport appears to be going to remain the bit more exclusive car of the two and at 4-5 grand less (if you take the R Performance Pack into account) then there's not a chance in hell I would change.
Oh and red is a much better colour than blue any day of the week. :wink:
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But still just a money isue?, a bit disapointed that the CS didn´t offer something that the R already has..
But is a bargain! :smiley:
I wouldn’t call £37k a bargain.
Maybe a mk8 GTD is a bargain compared to the rest of the range.
Money will nearly always play a part but a Clubsport isn’t just an R with a few horses strangled, a prop shaft removed and a couple tail pipes left off.
The Clubsport is at last a non limited edition, non overpriced (300PS) series GTI that benefits from a good few years of intense chassis development that went into the CSS, Ed40 and TCR.
The mk8 Clubsport is a standalone model that has its own character, look, positives and drawbacks.
Yes it’s slightly cheaper than an R but it’s not significantly so in the UK at least.
It’s aimed at a slightly different niche and arguably looks nicer than an R to boot.
A Clubsport is a GTI for those that want something a little more hardcore than a 245PS model, an R is an R.
Like Apple, Volkswagen make a lot of money out of people buying a top of the range model just because it has the biggest numbers on the tech sheet. That’s rarely the whole product story though.
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The clubby has several things the R doesn't have....different front end geometry and a 80kg crash diet for a start. Oh and a wing that you have to pay for on the R.
The R you are paying heavily for heavy awd and then paying on top for things they could have easily included on the base vehicle.
Vw clearly knew their audience though, no shortage of people who want the R it seems... Or are those all just YouTube comment fantasies?
I hope that the CS is faster on some tracks compare to the R with that less weight!. But when i talked to Benny L the VW testdriver.
He says that he never liked the R on track, i always prefer the FWD GTI, so much fun and faster..
But now the R is in a another league according to him! :)
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But still just a money isue?, a bit disapointed that the CS didn´t offer something that the R already has..
But is a bargain! :smiley:
I wouldn’t call £37k a bargain.
Maybe a mk8 GTD is a bargain compared to the rest of the range.
Money will nearly always play a part but a Clubsport isn’t just an R with a few horses strangled, a prop shaft removed and a couple tail pipes left off.
The Clubsport is at last a non limited edition, non overpriced (300PS) series GTI that benefits from a good few years of intense chassis development that went into the CSS, Ed40 and TCR.
The mk8 Clubsport is a standalone model that has its own character, look, positives and drawbacks.
Yes it’s slightly cheaper than an R but it’s not significantly so in the UK at least.
It’s aimed at a slightly different niche and arguably looks nicer than an R to boot.
A Clubsport is a GTI for those that want something a little more hardcore than a 245PS model, an R is an R.
Like Apple, Volkswagen make a lot of money out of people buying a top of the range model just because it has the biggest numbers on the tech sheet. That’s rarely the whole product story though.
But i am am CS fanboy!, was that close that i order one!. In Sweden the CS is a Bargain!, is like 10 000 Euro cheaper than the R.. ;)
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Good point about the CS being niche. That makes the Ed45 extreme niche or something! CS might well appeal more to a gti/Vw fan whereas the R has a bit of a different audience if the mk7 is anything to go by. That probably doesn’t make any sense!
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I'm not sure I see the mk 8 CS as niche? It is a more powerful Gti option as we first saw when VW bought out the 16V mk2 in 1986 to sell alongside the 8V.
This time, I think VW have worked hard on the mk8 R, they have seen how well the mk7 R has sold and importantly, they realise there is now a market where a £40-50k hot hatch is actually something the consumer will buy, who would have thought?
As this "super", " uber" hatch market is there, VW have upped the game on the R, it seems to dominate road tests in this sector.
Of course it will all come down to the monthly's once production and demand is somewhat back to what normal now is on a post covid world.
I am unlikely to buy either a CS or R as I don't need a dsg car, but the R package looks very impressive, if you like that sort of thing? :)
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Do you not think that Joe average will just get a gti rather than a CS? It’d be interesting I suppose to see the split between Mk7 non PP and PP. Might give an indication.
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In Sweden the CS is a Bargain!, is like 10 000 Euro cheaper than the R.. ;)
A bargain or is the R just horrifically expensive? Is price based on emissions with the R falling into a higher group?
CS might well appeal more to a gti/Vw fan whereas the R has a bit of a different audience if the mk7 is anything to go by. That probably doesn’t make any sense!
Yes that makes perfect sense and I agree.
I'm not sure I see the mk 8 CS as niche? It is a more powerful Gti option as we first saw when VW bought out the 16V mk2 in 1986 to sell alongside the 8V.
This time, I think VW have worked hard on the mk8 R, they have seen how well the mk7 R has sold and importantly, they realise there is now a market where a £40-50k hot hatch is actually something the consumer will buy, who would have thought?
As this "super", " uber" hatch market is there, VW have upped the game on the R, it seems to dominate road tests in this sector.
Of course it will all come down to the monthly's once production and demand is somewhat back to what normal now is on a post covid world.
I am unlikely to buy either a CS or R as I don't need a dsg car, but the R package looks very impressive, if you like that sort of thing? :)
Yeah, I do think the Clubsport will be pretty niche as it’s reasonably close in price to the R and the latter will be the main focus for most people.
It’s understandable that these 4WD über hatches are a big market now as they’ll often be bought as a second household car to the now semi-ubiquitous SUV or a sole car for the downsizers who are seeing their V6/V8 saloons getting either stratospherically expensive or losing the huge power plants to high powered 4 cylinder motors with supposedly greener credentials.
These hyper hatches have a decent power to weight ratio, all the modern must have toys can be specced as extras, they have a good image and have the right badges on their noses for those that have £50k budgets.
VW have thrown a lot into the new R because they had to, this is their bread and butter market and the R badge will be the brand image builder that carries us into the electric age where a GTI will mean nothing. It’s not like the R badge has no heritage as it’s been around a good while now and isn’t linked to a 2wd 4cyl hatch only set up like the GTI has been kept as (post Jetta).
For GTI’s maybe we are seeing the end of the line now.
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For GTI’s maybe we are seeing the end of the line now.
Personally having owned a few GTi' over the years, starting with my mk1 Campaign BRM152, I feel the game changed for me when the GTi performance variant (mk8CS) only became available with 5 doors and Dsg?
One thing I have not heard much about in regard to the new 8 R, is any upgrade to the security system?
As exciting as the performance figures appear, the ownership proposition may depend on the area you live and where you use the car?
Will this put any potential buyers off owning one?
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According to the dvla the Golf is the third most stolen car in the UK. How many are performance variants of any kind would be interesting to know. I reckon both cars are desirable to the undesirables.
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For GTI’s maybe we are seeing the end of the line now.
Personally having owned a few GTi' over the years, starting with my mk1 Campaign BRM152, I feel the game changed for me when the GTi performance variant (mk8CS) only became available with 5 doors and Dsg?
Similar GTI story. I can deal with the 5 doors. Not keen on DSG.
The UI is a slight concern, VW were always simple easy to use.
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I would be happy to own either the Clubsport or Golf R MK8. Currently drive a MK7 Golf R and has been the best car I have ever owned/driven. Due to recent circumstances I am considering the Golf R Mk8 Estate as feel the boot and rear leg room in the hatchback may not be large enough for the day to day but still want to own a performance Golf. But may still consider the MK8 Golf R Hatchback in the end, but the Estate at present might be a real contender when it is released.
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I presume the rear leg room is the same in hatch or estate. I don’t actually know though. :grin:
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Having owned both I can confirm there is no difference between mk7 hatch and estate in terms of cabin space. Just the boot. I would imagine it’s the same for the 8.
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Seem to recall the Mk8 Golf estate uses the Octavia version of the MQB platform, so it should have more rear legroom than the Golf hatchback.
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In Sweden the CS is a Bargain!, is like 10 000 Euro cheaper than the R.. ;)
A bargain or is the R just horrifically expensive? Is price based on emissions with the R falling into a higher group?
CS might well appeal more to a gti/Vw fan whereas the R has a bit of a different audience if the mk7 is anything to go by. That probably doesn’t make any sense!
Yes that makes perfect sense and I agree.
I'm not sure I see the mk 8 CS as niche? It is a more powerful Gti option as we first saw when VW bought out the 16V mk2 in 1986 to sell alongside the 8V.
This time, I think VW have worked hard on the mk8 R, they have seen how well the mk7 R has sold and importantly, they realise there is now a market where a £40-50k hot hatch is actually something the consumer will buy, who would have thought?
As this "super", " uber" hatch market is there, VW have upped the game on the R, it seems to dominate road tests in this sector.
Of course it will all come down to the monthly's once production and demand is somewhat back to what normal now is on a post covid world.
I am unlikely to buy either a CS or R as I don't need a dsg car, but the R package looks very impressive, if you like that sort of thing? :)
Yeah, I do think the Clubsport will be pretty niche as it’s reasonably close in price to the R and the latter will be the main focus for most people.
It’s understandable that these 4WD über hatches are a big market now as they’ll often be bought as a second household car to the now semi-ubiquitous SUV or a sole car for the downsizers who are seeing their V6/V8 saloons getting either stratospherically expensive or losing the huge power plants to high powered 4 cylinder motors with supposedly greener credentials.
These hyper hatches have a decent power to weight ratio, all the modern must have toys can be specced as extras, they have a good image and have the right badges on their noses for those that have £50k budgets.
VW have thrown a lot into the new R because they had to, this is their bread and butter market and the R badge will be the brand image builder that carries us into the electric age where a GTI will mean nothing. It’s not like the R badge has no heritage as it’s been around a good while now and isn’t linked to a 2wd 4cyl hatch only set up like the GTI has been kept as (post Jetta).
For GTI’s maybe we are seeing the end of the line now.
No the CS is like 39k Euro and the R like 47k Euro... :whistle:
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Having owned both I can confirm there is no difference between mk7 hatch and estate in terms of cabin space. Just the boot. I would imagine it’s the same for the 8.
I think the wheel base was the same on both Golf Mk7 Hatch and Estate so space in the rear of hte car would most likely have been the same. But the wheel base on the MK8 Golf Estate is wider by something like 30 or 40 centimeters I think than the MK8 Golf Hatch. I think I read as a result there was something like 4cm more leg room in the rear of the MK8 golf Estate compared to the Hatch, which is hardly anything, but going by the cramped space in the back of my Golf when I have the drivers seat fully back to allow myself at 6'3" to fit in the front of the car comfortably. Anything is better than nothing. Also considered the Tiguan R but might too rich for my wallet? Will keep an eye out and decide later in the year. But Clubsport, Golf R Hatch or Estate would all be great to own.
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As exciting as the performance figures appear, the ownership proposition may depend on the area you live and where you use the car?
^^^
( drop the question mark)
For most buyers, the only reason to buy the faster car is to impress your mates by launching to ridiculous speeds in urban areas.
I’d buy the R if I lived in the highlands.
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Personally having owned a few GTi' over the years, starting with my mk1 Campaign BRM152
That was the car I always wanted when I was young.
Unfortunately I always had too many financial commitments at the time to afford the high price of the BRMotorsport conversion. For me that high torque 2.0 was far more of a fast road car than the standard cammy mk2 1.8 16v.
I did have a 1983 mk1 (not a campaign though) which I gradually took to more or less that spec using Tim Stiles in Bridgwater to supply the uprated parts and getting my local Bosch dealer to fit it and set it up. Unfortunately despite the TSR lads being great guys the engineering wasn’t close to Brian Ricketts standard.
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BRM180 was what I alway wanted but never had the funds. Still remember the reviewed car. Silver Campaign, Audi multispoke 15s, with uniroyal tyres, satch suspension, eibatch antiroll bars, etc.
I got someway to the dream, just never had the funds for the engine conversion.
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Personally having owned a few GTi' over the years, starting with my mk1 Campaign BRM152
That was the car I always wanted when I was young.
Unfortunately I always had too many financial commitments at the time to afford the high price of the BRMotorsport conversion. For me that high torque 2.0 was far more of a fast road car than the standard cammy mk2 1.8 16v.
I did have a 1983 mk1 (not a campaign though) which I gradually took to more or less that spec using Tim Stiles in Bridgwater to supply the uprated parts and getting my local Bosch dealer to fit it and set it up. Unfortunately despite the TSR lads being great guys the engineering wasn’t close to Brian Ricketts standard.
It was a great car, I had GTi mk2 onward from the '80's, but missed out on a mk1. I bought this on a wet January evening in 2009 on ebay with few bidders for just over £2k with 60k miles on the clock!
The conversion alone cost £8k from the invoices!
I sold it as it was a beast, it felt more than 152bhp, in a light car.
The guy who bought it turned up in a Subaru RA, he couldn't believe how the Golf went and paid asking price.
When i say it was a beast it was more like a rapid terrier, it wanted to go fast, far more likely to get you in trouble than the real 911RS it sat next to in the garage.
I should have kept that one!
(https://i.postimg.cc/fy8QSF37/golf-14july09-003.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/7JJWpKnb)
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If ever there was a perfect GTI that would be it clubsport. Maybe with the addition of (aftermarket) power steering.
No wonder you regret selling it.
Colour, spec, engine. Perfect.
I’m not one for rose tinted specs, and my own mk1 was a troublesome beast/money pit with an obstinate gear-change, but a BRM 152 Campaign is my idea of motoring nirvana.
And yes, the K-Jet made the car so peppy in responses which makes it a proper puppy dog missile with all that torque and the low gearing :cool:
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https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/volkswagen/golf/354514/volkswagen-golf-gti-clubsport-vs-volkswagen-golf-r?amp&__twitter_impression=true
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No mention of haptic buttons or no heater controls? That can't be a mk8 review!
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No mention of haptic buttons or no heater controls? That can't be a mk8 review!
Ha ha! No mention of plastics qualities either. People will be seething!!