GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk7 => Topic started by: fredgroves on 11 November 2019, 15:39
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Just read this:
https://www.carmagazine.co.uk/car-reviews/comparison/2019/focus-st-vs-i30n-vs-golf-gti-tcr/
I'll put the conclusion here because its no doubt what you want to read first like I did:
First place: Ford Focus ST
The best car to drive, and strikes the best balance between fun and family. No longer cheap, though.
Second place: Hyundai i30N
Bargain hooligan is still thoroughly entertaining, but the new Focus ST is easier to live with.
Third place: VW Golf GTI TCR
Still got it, but too sensible to stir the soul, despite being the quickest and most powerful car here.
Its a view I am sure that its possible to justify. I'm not sure I agree though, not unless your purpose is simply to have the nimblest car on the track. Most of us have to use these things all day.
When you look at it like that, the discounted price of a TCR is about the same as the price of an ST. Only the I30n is cheaper. Neither of the non-Golfs (lol!) are actually as nice a car to live with or look at.
As with all of these comparisons, it would be different if you were comparing a Megane RS and a Civic Type R in here...
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I wouldn’t spend that money on a Ford.
I strongly considered the Hyundai and it’s a brand I respect. But, I couldn’t stand the Fisher Price interior and it’s manual only when I wanted an auto/DSG this time. It’s a great looking car but for me there was only one choice, the GTI.
Regrets? Nah. :cool:
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Couldn't see any prices on the article. Ford looks ok outside and just a bit crap on the inside.
There's only really one car you'd actually buy.
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I wonder which one would be the cheapest if you looked at PCP quotes on them?
I know not everyone uses PCP, but its a good indicator of cost of ownership for 3 years.
Suspect the I30n and ST are more expensive to own like that - in fact most things are compared to a Golf.
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I would have the golf over all of those but then thats slightly obvious as this is a VW forum .but I would
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The Hyundai isn't as bad as people make out and it definitely doesn't have a Fisher price interior as mentioned earlier. Fuel economy is it's let down.
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That's quite an entertaining read.
But one particular aspect of the Focus' appraisal bugged me:
The summary states:
That's what makes the Focus ST the best balance between logic and emotion.......But it's still a Focus, and this generation in particular is very good family transport.
When earlier in the article:
......the Focus still claims the dubious honour of being the firmest car here in its most relaxed damper setting. The ride in everyday situations is generally bearable, but it's incredibly jiggly through a pothole-riddled village. Sport and then Track increase that stiffness,
To my mind, that conclusion is directly contradicted by the suspension's comfort shortcomings. Which makes me wonder about the accuracy of his assessments overall.
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GTI - "The Golf is definitely more road car than track car", "It's properly quick yet feels safe and solid to drive quickly"
i30N - "The i30 N is a workout to drive aggressively", "The steering is heavy even in its most relaxed setting", "The clutch is supremely well weighted for driving like your hair's on fire, if a touch too heavy for long traffic-jam crawls"
ST - "The ride in everyday situations is generally bearable, but it's incredibly jiggly through a pothole-riddled village"
As 99% of my time in the car is spent in traffic on pothole-riddled roads I'll live with the lack of mid corner lift-off oversteer and a manual gearbox and accept the fact that should I ever find myself on a race track in my daily the guys in the ST's and i30's may have slightly bigger smiles on their faces (although those on the track in actual race cars will be using clutch-less paddle shift gears and trying every kind of set up to avoid lift-off oversteer :wink:)
Jake's perception of what a hot hatch needs to deliver is clearly very different to mine, and I'd suggest many others, but it would be a boring world if we all thought the same way.
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Not down on any of these cars, different neighbours have both the Fiesta and Focus ST and they look good out there
Had a good look around a i30 N about 3 months ago and think it has more going for it than not, and if Hyundai close the gap on some of the comments that car repeatedly gets in the next version it could really put itself into the mix - There is as many if not more who desire DSG these days so that would be a start - The interior does need a lift still but its not a huge one, its a lot closer than many indicate. The way prices are going the i30 N could be something to really look at when next version rolls out.
My car always has to be a daily first but as I love my cars it must also have the ability to transform into something with decent performance and some presence and the GTI/R hit that sweet spot perfectly - I tend to take the writers reviews who focus on just the track abilities and their version of 'fun' as actually being the car that is NOT for me as its likely going to be tiresome to drive when on day duties.
Of course I do more diligence than that but these type of track focused reviews are the first warning signs.
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Not down on any of these cars, different neighbours have both the Fiesta and Focus ST and they look good out there
Had a good look around a i30 N about 3 months ago and think it has more going for it than not, and if Hyundai close the gap on some of the comments that car repeatedly gets in the next version it could really put itself into the mix - There is as many if not more who desire DSG these days so that would be a start - The interior does need a lift still but its not a huge one, its a lot closer than many indicate. The way prices are going the i30 N could be something to really look at when next version rolls out.
My car always has to be a daily first but as I love my cars it must also have the ability to transform into something with decent performance and some presence and the GTI/R hit that sweet spot perfectly - I tend to take the writers reviews who focus on just the track abilities and their version of 'fun' as actually being the car that is NOT for me as its likely going to be tiresome to drive when on day duties.
Of course I do more diligence than that but these type of track focused reviews are the first warning signs.
I think that's the main issue with so many traditional head 2 head reviews is they might try and give it 'in the real world you'd buy this one' review but they never do. I used to subscribe to evo for over 13 years (if anyone wants any old copies let me know as I'm offloading them!) and its great that they concentrate on the thrill of driving but realistically, cars for a lot of people have to serve a lot of purposes.
Ownership includes all the boring stuff and financials such as servicing, dealers, depreciation etc and actually living with a car day to day, using it for normal stuff when you aren't blasting down B roads. The Golf does all this so well that it just means the others aren't as good. Of course, we drive Golfs so we are biased. But until I had my first Mk7.5, I'd never had a Golf or even a hot hatch.
Hyundai's have come a long way but agreed, whilst a manual appeals and is fun, it's just not what most people want these days as once you've tried a good DSG/PDK or latest auto you realise the manual is dead for day to day. Mine is getting its headlight fixed again and I've had a Tiguan for a day and its the 1.5 TSI with a manual. Sort of ok for a day but would be so much better with DSG for my commute. Plus same economy as the Golf this morning - 18mpg :rolleyes:
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There are a few good car magazines available these days.
Car isn't one of them. They still trade on their reputation built up in the 1980's and 1990's when they had good writers and excellent photographers.
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I've looked at a few new car options and read many reviews. You need to read more than one to get an overall picture. You will nearly always find someone with something bad to say about a particular model (interestingly, the GTI is one of the few cars out there with little negative comment - I'm not biased as I don't own one, or any performance Golf).
One bugbear of mine is inclusion of cost of ownership in 'head to heads'. OK, I can see that it is of a course an issue, but I would rather know how the cars stack up against each other as products - THEN I can decide whether it worth spending £X amount more to buy and/or run the 'better car'. I would rather see the cost comparison bit as a separate item.
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One of the things I never understand is AutoExpress.
They talk about say the Audi A3, talk about all of the variants, then say "pick of the range is the 1.2d SE".
How, how did you come to that conclusion? Based on what? Because its the cheapest to buy? The cheapest to run? The best kit? The best depreciation? The fastest round the ring?
HOW!!
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One of the things I never understand is AutoExpress.
They talk about say the Audi A3, talk about all of the variants, then say "pick of the range is the 1.2d SE".
How, how did you come to that conclusion? Based on what? Because its the cheapest to buy? The cheapest to run? The best kit? The best depreciation? The fastest round the ring?
HOW!!
:grin: :grin: :grin:
Pick of the range that no-one actually buys! AE are fairly useless.
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They also say 'pick of the range is A3 Sport TFSI' and then show a picture of an S Line.....
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Ask the road test journo which of the three cars he would actually buy with his own money as a daily and I bet the result would be different.
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I did a little Yorkshireman maths...
Here are some PCP figures:
focus st 190ps (the Ford configurator lacks the 2.3l version??)
£29,000
£3000 deposit
12000 miles pa, 3 years
£394 per month
14,000 gfV
I30n (Performance)
£29,495
£3000 deposit
12000 miles pa, 3 years
£431.20 per month
£11,952 gfv
Golf TCR
£37830
£3000 deposit
15000 miles pa, 3 years (VW don't offer 12000 miles...)
£600 per month
£15281 gfv
Ignoring fuel economy or insurance... Focus cheapest, I30n a little bit more.... Golf TCR... *ouch*
Almost a third more RRP equates to 50% more monthlies.
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£600 a month to rent a sodding Golf!
:shocked:
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£600 a month to rent a sodding Golf!
:shocked:
Supports my statement at the time of the price hike that the Akrapovic kills the TCR as a buying option, which adds to their rarity so not actually complaining ;)
My lease worked out cheaper than the R was running which you can add a further saving of presently circa 60 MPG on a tank.
On subject of fuel, nearly got caught out other day, coming home with gauge indicating need fuel on a road and distance know well and where would expect R to easily get me onto home territory and fuel as the 'estimation' stayed relatively static, the TCR began to countdown in real time! and had to dive off and get some fuel on board - my rationale was the new display and way calculates? whatever, I will be filling up on the warning now regardless.
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You don’t read this stuff to actually decide what car to buy. It’s just entertainment for petrolheads!
I’ll have the TCR with a manual box, please. That would be seriously desirable.
AE good for product testing, nothing else.
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The article mentions several times that the TCR has a mechanical LSD. It even references how it affects the turning circle. I thought the TCR had the same VAQ e-diff as the GTi performance/ Clubsport etc.
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The article mentions several times that the TCR has a mechanical LSD. It even references how it affects the turning circle. I thought the TCR had the same VAQ e-diff as the GTi performance/ Clubsport etc.
Yes, the TCR has the same diff as the GTI PP, Clubsport etc.
I expect some journos read the press blurb and interpret it as different things depending on how the spec is worded.
It’s interesting what he does say about the turning circle though as I thought I was imagining it the first few times I parked my TCR blaming it on the different gearbox and no clutch pedal, but was convinced in the back of my mind the TCR has the same (Inferior) steering lock as my R.
My Clubsport would turn on a sixpence (like my old GTI PP) but originally came on 7.5J wheels.
My TCR has 8J Reifnitz and I’m sure is fitted with the R steering as a consequence.
The Belvedere equipped TCR’s May have different steering set up as well as suspension.