GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk8 => Topic started by: CarbonGTD on 16 September 2020, 09:05
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I have a 20 plate Mk 7.5 GTI PP DSG and have owned 6 Golfs (and loved all of them). I will wait to see the Mk 8 GTI in the flesh and feel how far the driving dynamics have been moved on before drawing any conclusions, but the challenging looks and infamous physical buttons removal are not great omens.
Now with BMW announcing the launch of a seriously interesting (and better looking) direct competitor in the brand new 128ti will it mean the Mk 8 GTI is effectively dead before it starts in terms of sales? I do wonder.
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I have a 20 plate Mk 7.5 GTI PP DSG and have owned 6 Golfs (and loved all of them). I will wait to see the Mk 8 GTI in the flesh and feel how far the driving dynamics have been moved on before drawing any conclusions, but the challenging looks and infamous physical buttons removal are not great omens.
Now with BMW announcing the launch of a seriously interesting (and better looking) direct competitor in the brand new 128ti will it mean the Mk 8 GTI is effectively dead before it starts in terms of sales? I do wonder.
There’ll always be a core of existing loyal, die hard Golf GTI owners who’ll stay loyal to VW and buy the newer model.
However, based on some of the posts on the forum, some owners have seriously thought about jumping ship to BMW (one or two have done it), so if BMW are introducing a model that’ll be a more direct competitor to the mk8 GTI, there may be more defectors to the BMW brand.
You’ve mentioned the 1 series is better looking than the mk8. I agree with this, but looks are subjective and some will prefer the looks of the mk8 GTI over the 1 series. I certainly prefer the interior of the latest 1 series to the mk8 Golf’s interior - I think BMW seem to have got the balance of conventional controls, and touchscreens just about right - something VW sadly haven’t with the mk8 IMO.
Pricing and spec will be a major considerations though, so it’ll be interesting to see what the base price and spec is of the mk8 GTI, and what incentives VW offer to tempt potential buyers to get one.
EDIT; link to video on YouTube of the new BMW 128ti. Sounds very promising;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjndw5mGnII
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What's really interesting as touched on in the video is what they've done to the chassis - they've taken the M135i setup and made it worse.
They've taken away loads of stiffness from the chassis, so it's fun, it rotates, it doesn't have too much rear grip. Much like the French do with RS Clios and Meganes.
They've added what's essentially an anti-lift kit to give it more caster/dynamic camber, so the front is nailed down to ensure that mechanical diff works properly and the tyre doesn't roll onto its shoulders in corners rather than doing it with static camber.
So, lesson to all those loading up their cars with 50kgs of underbody bracing and rear strut scaffolding - you're making your car worse? Loose is fast.
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I've said for a long time, VW UK need the Mk8 GTI to have an effective spec and price point. If they don't, the competition will eat them, seriously eat them. VW had the whip hand with the Mk7, this time I'd argue they don't. Their only weapon is that its a Golf GTI, but that won't cut it unless the spec and price are competitive - base spec needs to be high, price needs to be low ball vs the rest- residuals need to be strong.
On the BMW 128TI, seriously attractive.
That is a very interesting video - I agree with Mike that they've done something really counter-intuitive but equally dialled back on the "on rails" thing of the M135i *deliberately*. That's an odd thing for BMW to admit to I think, but hats off to them for doing it.
Again though BMW need to make sure the 128TI finds the right price point - it can't be too close to the M135i. The spec needs to be close to the M135i and not close to the 118. If it doesn't come with sports body kit and sports seats as base, its going to not be a contender IMHO. Is that possible though? 95% of a M135i kit for 75-80% of the price?
If they can match the Mk8 GTI base spec for the same price, I think they will slay VW. If they can't get the price down...
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They're suggesting the BMW will enter at £31-32k. Sadly no manual.
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They're suggesting the BMW will enter at £31-32k. Sadly no manual.
Price is interesting.... but they haven't shown the inside or talked about the spec....
No manual is curious, given the comments in that video about stuff being "mechanical and not electronics".... no DCC or electronic front diff.
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https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/first-drive-2021-bmw-1-series-128ti-prototype
So, the big question. Do you hold off from buying anything until you’ve test-driven the 128ti in November?
You’d be foolish not to, because the 128ti is potentially an excellent option. The main concern is that even on the nicely modest 18in wheels, ride quality on British roads might be too lively for most. We’ll have to wait and see. One other minor qualm is that the B48 engine suffers more from turbolag than I was expecting, given the tune is lighter than in the M135i, though it isn't conspicuously laggy compared to rivals.
The BMW is otherwise an impressive, if outwardly quite subtle, effort. It's seriously quick but neat and natural to guide along the road in a way even the old six-cylinder car wasn’t.
It’s also balanced, keener than the big-boned exterior suggests and the roll-rates and steering response are conspicuously well matched, which is lucky because this helps disguise the fact the 128ti is tubby compared to its rivals. (BMW, if you're reading this, please do consider building a 128ti 'Leichtbau'). Really throw it down an uneven road and it stays remarkably calm, but not aloof.
If BMW’s first proper hot hatch lacks anything, it’s that little bit of fizz – a defining attribute. The sensational driving position of the Civic Type R, the rabid agility of the Renault Mégane RS, the 2.3-litre engine in the Focus ST.
Equally, it might just be the least flawed of any of them, which counts for so much in the hot-hatch dogfight.
Too harsh? Thats interesting because I'd absolutely not say the M135i was harsh at all - I took that over the worst roads I know and it was calmer than my Mk7.5 - both cars on 18's with no DCC.
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M-Sport spec by the looks of it. They're not the M135i's buckets for sure.
(https://www.quattroruote.it/news/primo_contatto/2020/09/16/bmw_128ti_motore_prestazioni_uscita_guida_in_pista/jcr:content/content/article_image_1289047133/image.img.jpg/1600188044551.jpg)
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Yeah I saw that photo but given how they didn't let the Irish youtube dude show inside, I'd guess maybe the interior is under design still and might consist of just whatever for the prototype.
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Very true.
If anything, it'll be a kick in the arse - because you can guarantee they'll come with really aggressive discounts & PCP deals and even if you've no intention of buying one, it'll force VW into reacting.
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I'm not sure VW will react - they'll either come out fighting from day 1 of the GTI with high spec, low RRP or they'll be wondering why even a £2k deposit contribution doesn't place them in contention.
Remember this is going to be a harsh market 2020/2021 - they can't loss lead, there just isn't the money there, they are bleeding already with covid, id3 problems and desielgate...
The hot hatch might be a small part of their business, but i think they are going to get spanked - partly their own fault due to a superiority complex from the Mk7 years.
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Two and a half weeks and 1200 miles into M135i ownership here, I’ll spare everyone the tedium of me writing too much but my summary of thoughts is VW will sell plenty of GTI’s as their core of repeat owners are an ultra conservative bunch and generally don’t move too far out of the box.
So long as the product remains pretty good then the badge and heritage will sell the cars and I don’t think the traditional repeat GTI purchaser will be put off by the challenging looks too much (bearing in mind none of the competitors are oil paintings either) or small areas of cheaper quality plastics.
I don’t think the GTI will be as ugly as the cooking mk8’s in the flesh and oozes Golfness side on so it’ll be popular and soon enough familiarity will water down the shock of the frontal looks. Similarly the 1 series looks far better in the flesh than in photos and both cars are of their time in design and looks.
The 128 will be shifted in decent numbers to brand swappers and those who want slightly more than VW are offering because BMW do very aggressive marketing despite high list prices. In fact the high list prices add to the premium image BMW need in order to shift their much bigger more expensive cars so won’t be compromised on, but are instead offset by decent discounts and affordable PCP and lease deals.
Never write the GTI off as it has a die hard following but at long last VW do have a bit of non in-house competition that’ll appeal to a wider market who don’t want fast Fords, Far Eastern or French.
BMW’s speciality seems to be PCP and lease deals which they’ll probably use to combat the GTI heritage.
I’ve no idea how the 128 will ride but the chassis is well developed from the Mini equivalents and I think the fact the chassis will be ‘purely mechanical‘ in a hot hatch is a good thing.
Going from the non adaptive 135 F40 on 19’s the ride is quite busy but well bushed and damped making it feel firm but absolutely not crashy even on Bridgestone tyres. Jiggly yes, harsh no.
BMW seem keen on adding chassis braces to the 1 series and mine has no squeaks or rattles as yet.
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I saw the Top Gear and Autocar articles on 128ti and laughed as this precisely what you guys have been talking about.
It does seem that BMW and Mercedes have woken up to the success of VAG performance cars and are now looking to take the fight to them.
Did anyone see a snippet a few months back that said Performance Golfs make up 40% of all UK Golfs sold (I think it was 2019 sales figures). So that is a big chunk of the market that they won’t want to lose but as Fred says they certainly can’t give cars away as they need the cash.
I think I am a relatively loyal customer, I have always felt the cabin in my cars have been designed by people that knew what they were doing and knew what was important for driver and had sensible solutions for including the features that would matter.
I’m not sure the Mk8 has had that and I wonder how much of it was driven by the economies of scale argument as we can include the same basic software to all their vehicles (and tell the climate control button company to shove off)
Part of me wants to jump ship to another brand but so far everything I’ve seen with other brands I seem to have an issue with ( I’m quite fussy). I’ve tried to rationalise the “new digital golf” but haven’t reach a conclusion yet.
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I wonder... We've heard a lot about vw focus on the id3... Do you think this even truly matters to them? Electric is surging, having your competitors throw serious effort at performance petrol new models now, are vw laughing up their sleeves?
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Or how about this....
https://www.carmagazine.co.uk/car-news/first-official-pictures/hyundai/i30-n/
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Or how about this....
https://www.carmagazine.co.uk/car-news/first-official-pictures/hyundai/i30-n/
Now you’re talking!!
I definitely want a test drive when it comes out but think you mentioned previously that it didn’t have ACC, which puts me off. Hopefully in facelift that will change.
The exhausts are rather big but I do like the look of the Fastback.
Certainly as said previously the Golf GTI has some competition around.
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Supposedly the new N has proper ACC and also auto gearbox... still no clue when it actually is available.
Oh here we go....
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/first-drive-2021-hyundai-i30-fastback-n-performance-prototype
March 2021.
Interesting that there are a few different contenders in this sector now, even though the Megane is gone and its unclear if the Type-R will survive Honda's relocation and electrification plans.
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Unfortunately I still cannot get over my dislike of the 'stick on' I pad which seems like such an afterthought in most modern cars... GTD for a while then I suppose until there is absolutely no other choice :sad:
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Unfortunately I still cannot get over my dislike of the 'stick on' I pad which seems like such an afterthought in most modern cars... GTD for a while then I suppose until there is absolutely no other choice :sad:
Two reasons for it:
1) You actually need to have somewhere where you don't need to take your eyes off of the road
2) Bigger screens mean you start to run out of space to put it.
Not many good options once you consider those two constraints. In fact, where the Mk7 has it is functionally bad really - Audi did a better job last time on the A3.
I guess you could build a binnacle behind it, but you start to further block sight lines with that, which is bad.
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All very good points Fred, I do wonder though how much info do we really need on hand that does not just become another distraction, I really like the HUD options on the BM and really apart from the Nav which can be put on the main display in the Mk7/7.5 what else do you need that you can't do with the steering wheels buttons which do become instinctive after a while (heating controls accepted...) :huh:
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HUD is on the Mk8 too...
The next thing will be ACP and AA working with the digital dash to display stuff there. Its coming, but slowly.
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Mk8 also allows dual maps display (Active Info Display & MIB at the same time). Mk7.5 only allowed this with Nav Pro.
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That i30N will be brilliant with ACC. I loved it when I test drove it a couple of years back but the ride was far too harsh and the car ridiculously expensive on finance. Now if it was that alcantara interior from the special edition it’ll be mega.
Lots of genuine competition for the Mk8 gti.
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Supposedly the new N has proper ACC and also auto gearbox... still no clue when it actually is available.
Oh here we go....
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/first-drive-2021-hyundai-i30-fastback-n-performance-prototype
March 2021.
Interesting that there are a few different contenders in this sector now, even though the Megane is gone and its unclear if the Type-R will survive Honda's relocation and electrification plans.
Thanks Fred. Well that is promising that it does have ACC. Now for a knock out colour(s) for the exterior and things will be looking very hopeful.
I feel that as a local resident I should get a Type R, trouble is I don’t like the fussy exterior, the size, the interior and even the new toned down version only sorts some of my dislikes.
Well, we will have to see what the Golf GTI throws us in the next week or so.
Also, I am one of the few people that puts car in garage, so I tend to hunt out the exact measurements of a car when it’s announced, not for me those general reviewer comments “oh it’s practically same size as last time” Not good enough for me.
Sorry I’ll get to my point;
Mk7 Golf GTI (taken from VW dimensions on PDF)
length 4268mm
width (excluding mirrors) 1799mm
Height. 1442mm
Mk8 Golf GTI ( taken from VW German configurator)
Length. 4287mm
Width (excl mirrors) 1789mm
Height 1478mm
I have seen a few comments from people saying proportions look wrong and car appears too high. Well these dimensions seem to confirm that GTI is much taller and also narrower so from some angles the car will look strange and not as elegant as mk7.
Does anyone else agree?
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That i30N will be brilliant with ACC. I loved it when I test drove it a couple of years back but the ride was far too harsh and the car ridiculously expensive on finance.
I've not driven (the current) one yet, but i thought it had DCC already? Should have been able to soften the ride up?
Finance isn't too bad actually - well, i didn't think so. When I did my TCO calc earlier this year, it was the cheapest out of all of the cars I looked at (M135i, N30, Golf TCR and Audi S3)
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I have seen a few comments from people saying proportions look wrong and car appears too high. Well these dimensions seem to confirm that GTI is much taller and also narrower so from some angles the car will look strange and not as elegant as mk7.
Does anyone else agree?
36mm taller and 10mm narrower? I doubt you can see that with the naked eye ;-)
It won't be the actual dimensions you are "seeing" it will be how the various lines make it look.
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That i30N will be brilliant with ACC. I loved it when I test drove it a couple of years back but the ride was far too harsh and the car ridiculously expensive on finance.
I've not driven (the current) one yet, but i thought it had DCC already? Should have been able to soften the ride up?
Finance isn't too bad actually - well, i didn't think so. When I did my TCO calc earlier this year, it was the cheapest out of all of the cars I looked at (M135i, N30, Golf TCR and Audi S3)
The car hadn’t been out that long when I went to drive it. They wanted circa £480pm for it. I was paying £280pm at the time for my S3 and they didn’t want to negotiate at all. Looks like that’s changed over time.
Not sure if it had DCC but it was so crashy I couldn’t drive one every day. Really hope the newer version sorts this.
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I have seen a few comments from people saying proportions look wrong and car appears too high. Well these dimensions seem to confirm that GTI is much taller and also narrower so from some angles the car will look strange and not as elegant as mk7.
Does anyone else agree?
36mm taller and 10mm narrower? I doubt you can see that with the naked eye ;-)
It won't be the actual dimensions you are "seeing" it will be how the various lines make it look.
Granted it will be down to lines and what you eyes pick up, but it was more a point to confirm people expressing a view the Mk8 looked strange from some angles and the rear view appearing to be tall and narrow, because the dimensions back that up, even if by small amounts.
I know 10mm is hardly anything but seemed strange that VW have narrowed Mk8 maybe down to all that wind tunnel work to make Golf super slippery
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I think i30N has always had adaptive suspension but I know the earlier models were criticised for firm suspension settings.
When the Fastback came out they soft3n it up and these suspension settings were also passed across to the i30N hatchback, coming in this year according to reviews.
£480 is absolutely mad especially if you were paying £280 for your S3. Watched a car wow drag race today...didn’t learn anything useful other than the chap who bought his i30N along had bought it through Carwow dealer for £21,000. I think things have changed a lot now as seen some other low prices for i30N
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I think i30N has always had adaptive suspension but I know the earlier models were criticised for firm suspension settings.
When the Fastback came out they soft3n it up and these suspension settings were also passed across to the i30N hatchback, coming in this year according to reviews.
£480 is absolutely mad especially if you were paying £280 for your S3. Watched a car wow drag race today...didn’t learn anything useful other than the chap who bought his i30N along had bought it through Carwow dealer for £21,000. I think things have changed a lot now as seen some other low prices for i30N
Wow! £21000 is nothing for the i30N. Things must definitely have changed. At the time I asked the salesman how many they’d sold. He said none. He told it was because of brand snobs. I said it was probably due to the fact I could buy a VAG hatch far cheaper.
The i30N did make a lasting impression on me though and is always on my list.
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About 27k for an N fastback at the moment. Which makes it at least six grand less than the others i looked at. Sure the residuals are worse in terms of pound notes but the loss of value is actually less than the others plus servicing is waay cheaper.
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VW Golf GTi Mk 7.5 Dimensions (from brochure)
Length 4,268mm
Height 1,482mm (max)
Width 1,799mm (excluding mirrors)
Width 2,027mm (including mirrors)
Wheelbase 2,626mm
VW Golf GTi Mk8 Dimensions (from German configurator)
Length 4,287mm
Height 1,478mm (max)
Width 1,789mm (excluding mirrors)
Wheelbase 2,627mm
Meaning the Mk8 actually sits 4mm lower than the Mk7.5. Although oddly, Mk7 is stated at 1,442mm height in the brochure.
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I think i30N has always had adaptive suspension but I know the earlier models were criticised for firm suspension settings.
When the Fastback came out they soft3n it up and these suspension settings were also passed across to the i30N hatchback, coming in this year according to reviews.
£480 is absolutely mad especially if you were paying £280 for your S3. Watched a car wow drag race today...didn’t learn anything useful other than the chap who bought his i30N along had bought it through Carwow dealer for £21,000. I think things have changed a lot now as seen some other low prices for i30N
Wow! £21000 is nothing for the i30N. Things must definitely have changed. At the time I asked the salesman how many they’d sold. He said none. He told it was because of brand snobs. I said it was probably due to the fact I could buy a VAG hatch far cheaper.
The i30N did make a lasting impression on me though and is always on my list.
I popped into Hyundai dealer before lockdown just to see if they had one in showroom ( they didn’t) but salesman was very bullish saying they are selling well and lots of VWs being traded in.
I had a quick look at how many left. Apparently around 2,000 registered in UK. So still fairly Niche but all the reviews praise it even if it doesn't win that particular test. Think the following is growing.
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VW Golf GTi Mk 7.5 Dimensions (from brochure)
Length 4,268mm
Height 1,482mm (max)
Width 1,799mm (excluding mirrors)
Width 2,027mm (including mirrors)
Wheelbase 2,626mm
VW Golf GTi Mk8 Dimensions (from German configurator)
Length 4,287mm
Height 1,478mm (max)
Width 1,789mm (excluding mirrors)
Wheelbase 2,627mm
Meaning the Mk8 actually sits 4mm lower than the Mk7.5. Although oddly, Mk7 is stated at 1,442mm height in the brochure.
Thanks Guzzle. But that is weird with height difference between mk7 and Mk8 7.5 in VW brochures. Do we put that down to the curse of VW Marketing material.
I was looking at height for Golf R and saw 1465mm but then somewhere else stated 1436mm so rather mixed up.
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I think i30N has always had adaptive suspension but I know the earlier models were criticised for firm suspension settings.
When the Fastback came out they soft3n it up and these suspension settings were also passed across to the i30N hatchback, coming in this year according to reviews.
£480 is absolutely mad especially if you were paying £280 for your S3. Watched a car wow drag race today...didn’t learn anything useful other than the chap who bought his i30N along had bought it through Carwow dealer for £21,000. I think things have changed a lot now as seen some other low prices for i30N
Wow! £21000 is nothing for the i30N. Things must definitely have changed. At the time I asked the salesman how many they’d sold. He said none. He told it was because of brand snobs. I said it was probably due to the fact I could buy a VAG hatch far cheaper.
The i30N did make a lasting impression on me though and is always on my list.
I popped into Hyundai dealer before lockdown just to see if they had one in showroom ( they didn’t) but salesman was very bullish saying they are selling well and lots of VWs being traded in.
I had a quick look at how many left. Apparently around 2,000 registered in UK. So still fairly Niche but all the reviews praise it even if it doesn't win that particular test. Think the following is growing.
one of the issues with the i30n is the high fuel consumption compared to other comparible models from VW and Audi etc and the fact it's 278 bhp but the VW's have a higher torque. A guy I spoke to at the petrol station who had the hatchback i30n said on a good day he can scrape 25mpg but it's usually around the 18 to 20 mark.
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I had a similar chat with someone about that. Over 20mpg was a bonus I was told. Gulp.
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I had a similar chat with someone about that. Over 20mpg was a bonus I was told. Gulp.
Take it with a pinch of salt though.... we have GTD owners on here who can't get 30mpg out of their oil burners...
I've yet to try an N, but will report back when i do. I'll be trying some different driving modes.... "nun"..."Fred goes to work" and "The Stig goes full attack".
When I drove the M135i the dealer who had it as their own company car said "i only get 25mpg" and I managed 42mpg at my normal "brisk but not nuts" driving style. (before having a go at "warp factor 10 Mr Sulu").
Very much its down to how much you are used to coming off of the throttle.
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I had a similar chat with someone about that. Over 20mpg was a bonus I was told. Gulp.
Take it with a pinch of salt though.... we have GTD owners on here who can't get 30mpg out of their oil burners...
I've yet to try an N, but will report back when i do. I'll be trying some different driving modes.... "nun"..."Fred goes to work" and "The Stig goes full attack".
When I drove the M135i the dealer who had it as their own company car said "i only get 25mpg" and I managed 42mpg at my normal "brisk but not nuts" driving style. (before having a go at "warp factor 10 Mr Sulu").
Very much its down to how much you are used to coming off of the throttle.
Now that is very true Fred. For example I got 43mpg out of the R on the way to work this morning!
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I’ve never really looked at the i30n but I did today ( at the outgoing model ). You can only spec paint, everything else is standard so the kit of pretty comprehensive
A friend has one and has not had a single issue. I wish my VW had been like that
Also, they are held as UK central stock and lead time is two weeks. Yes, two weeks....
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It certainly makes it easier if all you can choose is a colour and the car appears 2 weeks later. I was looking at German Hyundai site (after reading some i30 owner comments) and in Germany they are far more options to pick and choose.
I’m probably getting into an area I don’t fully understand but I’m sure I heard Hyundai UK was independent unlike VW UK which is owned by VW Germany ( I think). So I think maybe that is why Hyundai just get a stock of fully loaded i30N in a selection of colours as that is more suitable arrangement for their finances and say VW has the choice to spec a car if the prebuilt ones aren’t what you want. Totally happy to be shot down if talking rubbish.
On fuel economy, if asked, I’d say my Golf R gets average 33mpg. I know the combined WLTP mpg is pretty much the same, so pending a test drive I’d be happy to look at WLTP combined in other cars and rate them accordingly. Think i30N is a combined 34mpg but as mentioned before fuel economy can go up as well as down. :laugh:
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Two owners I've spoken to on the petrol forecourt didn't get anywhere near 34mpg combined, more like 24.
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Two owners I've spoken to on the petrol forecourt didn't get anywhere near 34mpg combined, more like 24.
That isn’t good, esp from a 2 litre, 4 cylinder Fwd. now, if you were talking to RS3 owners that would kind of make sense.
So McMaddy what sort of mpg would you say you get from your TCR?
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Two owners I've spoken to on the petrol forecourt didn't get anywhere near 34mpg combined, more like 24.
That isn’t good, esp from a 2 litre, 4 cylinder Fwd. now, if you were talking to RS3 owners that would kind of make sense.
So McMaddy what sort of mpg would you say you get from your TCR?
My TCR is great on fuel, I'm getting 40+ on long runs, mid 30s on shorter runs. Current long term average is 38 (I've been doing plenty of long runs recently). Short but steady commutes would dip into the high 20s but Covid and wfh has removed those!
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Two owners I've spoken to on the petrol forecourt didn't get anywhere near 34mpg combined, more like 24.
That isn’t good, esp from a 2 litre, 4 cylinder Fwd. now, if you were talking to RS3 owners that would kind of make sense.
So McMaddy what sort of mpg would you say you get from your TCR?
at just over 1k miles my long term is showing 31mpg and that's all been short journeys with the exception of one and I got 41 from that 👍
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From everything I've read, the N engine is nothing like a VAG or BMW engine in any way shape or form. Whether that's good or bad depends on your personal opinion I guess.
I've still yet to try it, but it does sound glorious :cool:
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From everything I've read, the N engine is nothing like a VAG or BMW engine in any way shape or form. Whether that's good or bad depends on your personal opinion I guess.
I've still yet to try it, but it does sound glorious :cool:
it didn't feel as quick as my GTi pp and that was 48bhp down. Torque wise though the GTi was slightly more. It was still a nice car and the gear rev matching did make me smile. If you couldn't care less about bottom line mpg figures then it'll be a great car. Badge snobs will be the issue though especially on VW, Audi and BMW forums.
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Thanks, Watts and McMaddy for fuel consumption and ride quality comments.
Thanks Fred about comment on engine. So VAG engines sounds like they are more sophisticated
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Pricing and specifications for the 128ti are out now on the UK website and an initial look through, comparing to the Golf 8 GTI prices/specs, seems to suggest the pricing is being put at a directly competitive level...
Both have low/mid £30's base prices... and are getting into the high £30's (even low £40's) if you put a spec on them (VW looking for over £2k for leather and electric seat)...
Be interesting to see how liked the BMW is when the initial owners start reporting on their cars...
(edit to add: apologies, just seen much of this already posted in separate thread... my bad. )