GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk8 => Topic started by: fredgroves on 14 January 2021, 21:47
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**OFF TOPIC WARNING** (well it comes back on topic later if you get that far)
Well this was an interesting day. My visit to HQ today saw me bump into the Fleet Manager. He was ranting about a sales guy who had got a new car the other week and was fired shortly afterwards.
A BMW 128TI....
So with a little arm twisting, he lent it to me for my day's work today. Dog with two tails? Not much!
Strap in kids, here we go! Please read this as my own thoughts, your opinion might be different. I'm a (normally) road based worker, I drive a lot, I've driven lots of really boring cars and not many hardcore ones.
I've done about 150 miles in each of my Mk7.5 GTD and the BMW 128TI today. Good chance for a little review I think!
This was a car with 18's, Tech pack and HK audio.
Weather was somewhere between appalling and biblical unfortunately.
Outside:
Looks pretty good, definitely BMW and not VW. Can't see any angles I don't like. 18's look a bit tiny in the wheel arches but the wheels are pretty neutral - not bad but not great. This one has PS4's on it. Really like the illuminated door handles, neat BMW logo projected onto the floor from the drivers door mirror (but not the passenger door). Dynamic front grill is interesting, with it opening and closing depending on the cooling requirements of the engine (very trick!). Twin black coloured exhausts look good. Lights are LED's all round but no dynamic indicators. Red accents are nice and TI decals look good. Doors shut solidly - front and rear. Boot lid is a bit tinny though. Nice big rear spoiler. Looks purposeful.
Inside:
Feels very premium compared to the Mk8. Nice coloured lighting strips in the doors front and rear. Rear has white footwell lighting. Plastics nice quality, red TI themed stitching all over the place. M sport stripes on the seatbelts.
Driving:
First thing you notice, its very quiet inside. Very quiet. Even without the fake sound turned off. Little road noise, little real engine noise. Even the crappy rain conditions, the spray didn't seem to drum on the wheel arches.
Handling is very good, its really nippy with zero understeer. Lovely and flat round corners. Weather was appalling today so didn't really cane it but I could tell it would be a lot of fun in the dry. The 128TI only has passive dampers, no option for dynamic ones. The ride is hard, I guess thats why its flat handling. Steering feels a little disconnected but what doesn't these days.
Gearbox is less than perfect in plain drive mode. In stop start traffic it feels very mechanical, grabby and a bit lurchy. At a steady 70mph the thing keeps changing gear, its not terrible but once you've noticed it, it annoys. In sport mode its a bit better, it doesn't seem to hold it at the red line for a lifetime upshifts are more brutal but not neck breaking.
When you put it into sport mode the traction control comes off. If you want it back on, you need to come out of sport mode. That's weird. I managed some wheel spin a few times.
Quick? Probably, if you want to know about quick watch the inevitable drag race videos on youtube. All I will say is its as you would expect.
Exhaust Noise? Not really. When you start it up there is a nice little crackle. That crackle is never seen again, just sounds like any other car after that. I even tried playing in an underground carpark with the windows wound down. Nothing doing.
HK audio is weird. Its both good and bad at the same time. It either has a surround option that seems to throw bits of the audio around the car, a lot of it to the rear or if you turn that off it sounds pretty flat. The surround thing makes all of my music sound very different to how I've ever heard it before. It has a equaliser but the equaliser has no presets, only sliders to play with. Bass isn't earth shattering. By the time you get to about 75% volume the sound seems to fall apart. Sure 75% is too loud, but Dynaudio in a Mk7 is much better. The other funny is that satnav annoucements seem to come from somewhere in the middle of the dash in a tinny sort of way. Odd.
BMW Connected Music (subscription service that you get a year or more for free) is quite good. Lots of choice there.
Wireless android auto was interesting. Worked quite well, except on multiple occassions the audio playback totally fell apart. Just started making weird stuttering noises and I had to turn it off. The wireless charging doesn't keep up with the demands of wireless android auto. If you don't use the charging your phone will be flat in not much time.
The Icon Led Headlights (like Matrix IQ) are nothing short of brilliant. Absolutely incredible.
HUD is superb. Even Waze integrates with it. Barely looked at the dash itself. Maybe was a little too bright at night, I didn't have time to try turning it down, but then maybe its not bright enough for daytime. Possibly needs a day/night mode.
The Idrive interface I found a bit too text heavy and tricky. The main display was cluttered. Sat nav display isn't very clear at all. I expected more. Not sure if this car had the biggest screen you can get. If you could get a bigger one I'd suggest you do.
Hello BMW! That works really well, all sorts of things you can control with it. It understood what I said pretty much every time even with my accent and using it for navigation or choosing media or radio stations or well, anything, was flawless, speedy and didn't need button pushing at all. Shame her voice seems to come from the same weird tinny speaker as the sat nav.
Reversing assistant - what a hoot! It remembers your last maybe 50m of forward travel, then when you press the button it will drive you backwards up the same way you came in. You do the throttle it steers. Really good. I was nervous but it is dead accurate. BTW the rear view camera gets fouled by bad weather really easily. No idea where it is physically located but most of today its been a blurry mess.
Windscreen wipers on auto seem to have a mind of their own. Annoying.
Had numerous error messages about the forward camera being unavailable. More than just it seemingly giving up, it throws up an annoying message on the central display that you have to click on to make go away. Did it about 5 times today. Could be muck on it, but don't think so. Think it was just seeing scenes it couldn't understand and disabled itself for saftey reasons. Unreliable.
Seats - terrible. Sorry BMW these suck. You sit on them, not in them. Loads of adjustments, it makes no difference. Anyone that wants to sit on the floor, you certainly can. They have adjustable thigh support.
Fuel economy for me mainly taking it easy and with a lot of motorway and A roads I managed an average of 30 MPG. Not great.
Handing it back to the Fleet Manager, I had a few glances back and off to the Mk7.5 GTD...
Less premium inside.
AID is much clearer, much better than the BMW. MIB unit is better, but I have navpro.
Car is much noisier on the road but its not as bad as I thought it might be. Can hear road noise and of course the oil burner itself.
Handling definitely not as flat, a little bit of body roll. I'm on 18's with no DCC. However its also a much smoother ride. Much smoother. Still pretty nimble.
Seats.... oh the luxury! I worked out its because you sit in them, the side bolsters on the squab are deeper and extend further forward, it actually grips you (even though the BMW has adjustable width on the vertical bolsters for shoulder width)
Mk7.5 LED headlights seem like they are candle powered after the BMW trick ones.
I'm missing the HUD. Really missing the HUD.
Stereo (non-dynaudio) seems very front heavy sound, but I get stereo sound which sounds like stereo sound. I don't think surround is much use other than movies.
The Mk7.5 of course has ACC. I missed ACC today.
Manual seems a bit clunky after an auto box for most of the day. But its ok.
Have to say on the on ramp to the motorway the GTD's massive torque didn't seem to be much slower than the more BHP equipped BMW. Interesting.
So the big question.... vs the Mk8 GTI drove the other week.
BMW wins on build and interior quality, external looks and that amazing reversing assistant that I have probably used the one and only time I ever would use it.
Golf wins on gearbox, ride comfort, seats are even better than the Mk7.5, steering feel, instrumentation and seat comfort. It wasn't dark when i drove the Mk8, but expect the lights to be as good as the BMW. Has front and rear swoopy indicators.
My suggestion - get a Golf Mk8 GTI and add some bits to it if you want some of things I talked about the BMW having over a base Mk8. Definitely add the HUD I think.
I couldn't have the BMW because of the seats. Shame. The least technical part of the car and the most important.
Only thing I worry about with the Mk8 seem to be software problems and having keyless entry (the BMW has remote control entry and keyless start).
Does the Mk8 clubsport ride like the 128TI? No idea, but if it does, I'd not buy one. Well, not without DCC.
I wrote this to brain dump the day and help me try and figure out what to do now. Before you ask, I've no idea right now!
Sorry if it was too long and boring!
Glad that job today took me to HQ though....
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Great brain dump Fred. For a moment, I thought I was reading one of Exonian’s posts :smiley: - that’s a compliment Mr Ex as I enjoy your longer posts.
Both the BMW and the mk8 GTI are no doubt very capable driver’s cars and for anyone considering either of these as their next car IMO there isn’t a clear cut winner. There are no doubt areas where the BMW is better than the GTI and vice versa.
For me, it would come down to priorities, and I accept that one person’s priorities will be different to another persons. If I was spending a significant amount of time in a car as you do under normal circumstances, then seat comfort and adjustability would be very near the top of my list of priorities, as would the overall financial cost of ownership. The spec differences between the two cars can be levelled up, but obviously at a cost.
Keyless needn’t be a worry in the GTI as it can be temporarily disabled - I do this as my car had keyless as standard; I wouldn’t have spec’d it as an option as it’s something I could easily live without.
Agree it’s a dilemma, but not a bad dilemma to have.
Good luck in making your decision :smiley:.
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Enjoyed that, thanks.
My wife has not allowed me to drive her 218i M Sport yet. :huh:
BMW definitely has the best interior. Though, I know what you mean about the seats.
I'm not sure about test driving the Mk8 as I may want one. :undecided: However, I did have several test drives in the original Mk7 and it never appealed.
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interesting read. Doesn't look a dilemma to me. Buy the Golf!
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Does BMW have the same seats in all 128 versions?
To me it ^ reads like your heart is with the mk8, it will just take your head some time to catch up! Give VW 6-12 months to sort the software issues, then voila, problem solved.
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The 128 is definitely on my radar so I found that really interesting Fred. Thanks for sharing your thoughts. Interesting what you say about the seats. I always felt the same about my S3: you sat on them, not in them. At the time my brother had his Mk7.5 gtd and I can remember getting it in and it brought back how good my gti seats had been. Suppose we all would expect the bmw to feel more premium but it seems that the driving experience in the Mk8 is the thing that’s consistently being the saving grace.
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Thanks for the update Fred. I too find your experience of the seats interesting. One aspect of the Mk 8 that seems to be partly overlooked in the many reviews I have seen is how good the new seats are. I only had a short test drive but found the seats to have a nice feel and were very comfortable. Ride a bit harsh but I assume that can be fixed by DCC. As someone who is interested in a motorway mile muncher, comfort is high on my list.
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I had a look this morning - on the 2 series - the camera is part of the boot opening handle and it has no protection. You can actually see it sticking down to one side of the handle. The Golf definitely has a better designed camera integration.
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Thanks for the interest guys and taking the time to read my rather long post!
In summary, the major flaws for me were the terrible seats and the hard ride. Other things are just niggles that all cars have vs different ones.
I've scrapped the 128TI from my list. Definitely not happening.
I'll try and answer your questions in a sec.
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SRGTD,
On price, the BMW is cheap. My spec for it was cheaper monthly than pretty much anything I've looked at. Good to know I can kill keyless on the Golf, I would certainly do that.
Daz Auto,
Glad you agree on the seats! I thought it was just me! And you've spotted why the camera was a mess in gopping weather on the motorway. Not a good design really. Cheap some might say...
Yusee,
I did like the Mk8 Golf GTI.... maybe I might have some more options to come yet though ;-)
Splashalot,
The 128TI has two seat options in the UK. The ones I had yesterday and the same thing in leather. These are the same seats as the 118i, they are the design they use for non-M cars. In Europe you can option the M Sport seats they use in the M135i. Those are much nicer but look odd because they don't have the TI branding on them (neither does leather) which means the interior is all over the place - TI logos and red stitching on everything except the seats. Looks weird, I've seen this in the showroom!
As for heart set on the Golf, it clearly was the starting point because my Mk7 and Mk7.5 have been the best cars I have had ever - I genuinely feel that. Its a tough act to follow, even for VW.
king monkey,
Yes, seats are very important. The minis we have in my house are all terrible for that. I guess the F40 is showing its heritage.
The Mk8 GTI rides well and handles well - it really does. The 128TI rides very hard but because of that, handles very well. Getting that balance right is a tricky job. I think VW are actually the masters of everyday performance and the Mk8 is a step up.
AR99,
A fellow road warrior! Yes, the Mk8 seats are great but on the other hand, I remember you not liking the noise. The 128TI is superbly quiet but the seats are terrible and the ride a LOT harder than a Mk8 GTI on 18's and standard suspension. Over potholes the BMW was jarring and over brick paving on my factory's industrial estate it was like being in a washing machine.
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Thanks Fred. I specc'd up a 128ti and thought this is too good to be true....and it is! A shame (for BMW) - better, bespoke seats and the option of adjustable suspension sounds like is all that is needed.
Yes, I did have an issue with noise in the Mk8 on my short test drive. I didn't expect S class levels but felt too much of a drone for me. A pity as that is pretty much all that is holding me back from ordering. Looks like I will have a bit of a wait for another test drive and then 20 weeks for it to arrive (if I order) :undecided:. On the other hand, need to keep some perspective as to what is happening around the world at the mo.
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Thanks Fred. I specc'd up a 128ti and thought this is too good to be true....and it is! A shame (for BMW) - better, bespoke seats and the option of adjustable suspension sounds like is all that is needed.
Yes, I did have an issue with noise in the Mk8 on my short test drive. I didn't expect S class levels but felt too much of a drone for me. A pity as that is pretty much all that is holding me back from ordering. Looks like I will have a bit of a wait for another test drive and then 20 weeks for it to arrive (if I order) :undecided:. On the other hand, need to keep some perspective as to what is happening around the world at the mo.
I think the problem BMW have is that the 1 series is the bottom of their range. Adding lots of other options starts to intrude on other things from a price positioning perspective.
VAG have a different perspective on model positioning.
Mk8 noise... yes I noticed it too but its there on the Mk7.5 too to some degree. I'd take the noise over the uncomfort of the BMW though every time.
Maybe you should look at a Merc A35? I've not driven one, but I suspect that might be worth a look.
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I know what you mean about the position of the 1 Series. Read an article once, the gist of which was that 'proper' BMW/Merc ownership doesn't start until the 3 Series/C Class and there is some truth in that.
I did look at the A Class - an A250 AMG line would do me performance wise. Just a pity you can't add a space saver (which is important to me but another topic on it's own..... :whistle:).
The search for the 'perfect' mile munching hatchback goes on but the Mk8 is the closest so far.
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I did look at the A Class - an A250 AMG line would do me performance wise. Just a pity you can't add a space saver (which is important to me but another topic on it's own..... :whistle:).
The search for the 'perfect' mile munching hatchback goes on but the Mk8 is the closest so far.
Buy a spacesaver, put it in a wheel bag and sling it in the boot?
Maybe consider a Focus or a Honda? Both are excellent by all accounts - not neccessarily the top performing spec for either....
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I did think of a spacesaver in the boot. Takes up quite a bit of space though and I'm not sure I'd be comfortable driving around with one in the boot + jack et al.
Sat in a Civic a while ago. Looks/interior doesn't really float my boat.
Had a leased Fiesta ST Line for a while - cracking small car. There seems to be a gap in the Focus line up between 1.0 litre ST line and the ST. Haven't driven one though so can't really comment.
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I did think of a spacesaver in the boot. Takes up quite a bit of space though and I'm not sure I'd be comfortable driving around with one in the boot + jack et al.
Sat in a Civic a while ago. Looks/interior doesn't really float my boat.
Had a leased Fiesta ST Line for a while - cracking small car. There seems to be a gap in the Focus line up between 1.0 litre ST line and the ST. Haven't driven one though so can't really comment.
I think Merc make a packaged space saver that won't rattle around, complete with tools etc. Its a bit large of course, but that's why they don't design them in place any more. Not sure if a Mk8 has a space for one - I didn't look. Wouldn't be surprised if it didn't. The BMW didn't.
Fiesta I suspect would be too small and noisy for big mile munching. I'd be looking at the Focus - stands more chance of being acceptable transport for a road warrior. You need the size/weight really - I spent decades in Sierras, Vectras, Mondeos etc and there is a reason why that sized car was the pick for reps. I was surprised when the Mk7 seemed to be capable of it.
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I did think of a spacesaver in the boot. Takes up quite a bit of space though and I'm not sure I'd be comfortable driving around with one in the boot + jack et al.
Sat in a Civic a while ago. Looks/interior doesn't really float my boat.
Had a leased Fiesta ST Line for a while - cracking small car. There seems to be a gap in the Focus line up between 1.0 litre ST line and the ST. Haven't driven one though so can't really comment.
I think Merc make a packaged space saver that won't rattle around, complete with tools etc. Its a bit large of course, but that's why they don't design them in place any more. Not sure if a Mk8 has a space for one - I didn't look. Wouldn't be surprised if it didn't. The BMW didn't.
Fiesta I suspect would be too small and noisy for big mile munching. I'd be looking at the Focus - stands more chance of being acceptable transport for a road warrior. You need the size/weight really - I spent decades in Sierras, Vectras, Mondeos etc and there is a reason why that sized car was the pick for reps. I was surprised when the Mk7 seemed to be capable of it.
You can spec a spacesaver in the Mk8. Same for the A3. When we all drive milk floats, spacesavers will probably disappear altogether to accommodate batteries......
As you say, repmobile class cars are best for motorways. Recent Performance Golfs also seem to be acceptable - GTD reviews nearly always reference the 'long distance cruiser' element.
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Interesting review. One thing I would say is to check the tire pressure - BMW seem to set the recommended pressure quite high - I think its something like 2.7 bar at the front. I've knocked this down to 2.5 and the ride is much more compliant. But still firm vs the GTD for sure.
I know where you're coming from re the seats and sitting 'on them' rather than in them. That said its taken a while to find the perfect seating position but I've found by tilting the seat base a little they are very comfy (for me anyway). The adjustable side bolsters on the seat back are great as well. I also like the way the back of the seat curves up a little so your head is very close to the headrest. I guess they could have done better with the seat base - but did a great job with the backrest.
I'm pretty sure you can spec a spacesaver for the 1 series as well - could be wrong on that.
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My wife's BMW has the M Sport trim. So it has all leather M spec seats. I think the issue might be the lower (sportier?) driving position. Being used to the higher seats in the Golf - with the higher driving position - maybe it's just a case of an unfamiliar position i.e. sitting lower with straighter legs. After all I started sitting in Golf seats in 2007 :undecided:
To be fair I have not driven the car as much as you Fred. It may be some time before I'm allowed. :embarrassed: Last night we were playing with the auto boot opening. You are supposed to kick your foot under the boot in line with the BMW badge. It was not working for me and I got a bit frustrated and kicked the car. :embarrassed: Now I have to sit on the naughty step for a long time. :wink:
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Interesting review. One thing I would say is to check the tire pressure - BMW seem to set the recommended pressure quite high - I think its something like 2.7 bar at the front. I've knocked this down to 2.5 and the ride is much more compliant. But still firm vs the GTD for sure.
I know where you're coming from re the seats and sitting 'on them' rather than in them. That said its taken a while to find the perfect seating position but I've found by tilting the seat base a little they are very comfy (for me anyway). The adjustable side bolsters on the seat back are great as well. I also like the way the back of the seat curves up a little so your head is very close to the headrest. I guess they could have done better with the seat base - but did a great job with the backrest.
I'm pretty sure you can spec a spacesaver for the 1 series as well - could be wrong on that.
I looked at the TPMS.... was 2.2 on the rears and 2.9/2.8 on the front.... wasn't my car so wasn't about to start letting air out.
The seat I spent about an hour messing around with. I opened up on the online manual (really nice feature I didn't mention yestrerday but I thought it was brilliant) and adjusted every aspect of the seat. Nothing doing.
Did spot a weird thing though, the passenger seat is different to the drivers seat.... I could make the passenger seat comfortable.... bit far to reach the pedals though.
I'm sure its just me, but it did really remind me of the F56 or R58 we have on the drive (amongst others!) - I can drive them, but not far without back and hip pain. I try not to use them if I can.
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My wife's BMW has the M Sport trim. So it has all leather M spec seats. I think the issue might be the lower (sportier?) driving position. Being used to the higher seats in the Golf - with the higher driving position - maybe it's just a case of an unfamiliar position i.e. sitting lower with straighter legs. After all I started sitting in Golf seats in 2007 :undecided:
To be fair I have not driven the car as much as you Fred. It may be some time before I'm allowed. :embarrassed: Last night we were playing with the auto boot opening. You are supposed to kick your foot under the boot in line with the BMW badge. It was not working for me and I got a bit frustrated and kicked the car. :embarrassed: Now I have to sit on the naughty step for a long time. :wink:
Lol!
I am sure the problem actually is because the seat squab (base) is shorter and the adjustable thigh support tries to make up for that but it lacks lateral support.
Maybe if you are a different shape to me it makes sense.
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Did spot a weird thing though, the passenger seat is different to the drivers seat.... I could make the passenger seat comfortable.... bit far to reach the pedals though.
:grin:
After last night I think I had better get familiar with the passenger seat :embarrassed:
To open the boot, I discovered you have to stand at the back of the car and dance like Michael Flatley. :laugh:
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To open the boot, I discovered you have to stand at the back of the car and dance like Michael Flatley. :laugh:
(https://i.makeagif.com/media/7-30-2016/D3gtJb.gif)
^^^from the BMW instruction manual.
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To open the boot, I discovered you have to stand at the back of the car and dance like Michael Flatley. :laugh:
(https://i.makeagif.com/media/7-30-2016/D3gtJb.gif)
^^^from the BMW instruction manual.
Yep, that's it. :grin:
PMSL
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The Mk8 GTI rides well and handles well - it really does. The 128TI rides very hard but because of that, handles very well. Getting that balance right is a tricky job. I think VW are actually the masters of everyday performance and the Mk8 is a step up.
This is the key - the defining feature of a top hot hatch. It's why you should buy the golf.
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**OFF TOPIC WARNING** (well it comes back on topic later if you get that far)
Well this was an interesting day. My visit to HQ today saw me bump into the Fleet Manager. He was ranting about a sales guy who had got a new car the other week and was fired shortly afterwards.
After the delays in getting a test drive your stars finally aligned! It’s funny how things work out sometimes
A BMW 128TI.... I can only comment on the 135i
So with a little arm twisting, he lent it to me for my day's work today. Dog with two tails? Not much!
Strap in kids, here we go! Please read this as my own thoughts, your opinion might be different. I'm a (normally) road based worker, I drive a lot, I've driven lots of really boring cars and not many hardcore ones.
I've done about 150 miles in each of my Mk7.5 GTD and the BMW 128TI today. Good chance for a little review I think!
This was a car with 18's, Tech pack and HK audio.
Weather was somewhere between appalling and biblical unfortunately.
Outside:
Looks pretty good, definitely BMW and not VW. Can't see any angles I don't like. 18's look a bit tiny in the wheel arches but the wheels are pretty neutral - not bad but not great. This one has PS4's on it. Really like the illuminated door handles, neat BMW logo projected onto the floor from the drivers door mirror (but not the passenger door). Dynamic front grill is interesting, with it opening and closing depending on the cooling requirements of the engine (very trick!). Twin black coloured exhausts look good. Lights are LED's all round but no dynamic indicators. Red accents are nice and TI decals look good. Doors shut solidly - front and rear. Boot lid is a bit tinny though. Nice big rear spoiler. Looks purposeful.
The Mk8 also has illuminated door handles and a projection BOTH sides :whistle:
I think the 128ti has the best standard wheels between that and the 135i, the 18’s do indeed look a little small though.
Inside:
Feels very premium compared to the Mk8. Nice coloured lighting strips in the doors front and rear. Rear has white footwell lighting. Plastics nice quality, red TI themed stitching all over the place. M sport stripes on the seatbelts.
“The One” interior is masses better feeling than a Mk8, it reminds me of how Golfs were once where even the cheaper lower down plastics are solid feeling and you get the impression if you thumped a panel it’d thump you right back.
Confession: I didn’t notice mine had illuminated rear footwells
The lighting strips in the doors and dash look very classy and are a nice focal point
Getting back in a Golf though, despite feeling retrograde in quality, does have that immediate familiarity and homeliness despite being quite different to a mk7 inside
Driving:
First thing you notice, its very quiet inside. Very quiet. Even without the fake sound turned off. Little road noise, little real engine noise. Even the crappy rain conditions, the spray didn't seem to drum on the wheel arches.
Handling is very good, its really nippy with zero understeer. Lovely and flat round corners. Weather was appalling today so didn't really cane it but I could tell it would be a lot of fun in the dry. The 128TI only has passive dampers, no option for dynamic ones. The ride is hard, I guess thats why its flat handling. Steering feels a little disconnected but what doesn't these days.
I found the ride in the 135i very good, firm yes but absorbed sharp irregularities well despite letting you know what was going on down below
Gearbox is less than perfect in plain drive mode. In stop start traffic it feels very mechanical, grabby and a bit lurchy. At a steady 70mph the thing keeps changing gear, its not terrible but once you've noticed it, it annoys. In sport mode its a bit better, it doesn't seem to hold it at the red line for a lifetime upshifts are more brutal but not neck breaking.
When you put it into sport mode the traction control comes off. If you want it back on, you need to come out of sport mode. That's weird. I managed some wheel spin a few times.
Quick? Probably, if you want to know about quick watch the inevitable drag race videos on youtube. All I will say is its as you would expect.
Exhaust Noise? Not really. When you start it up there is a nice little crackle. That crackle is never seen again, just sounds like any other car after that. I even tried playing in an underground carpark with the windows wound down. Nothing doing.
I went for an early car specifically for the added exhaust noises. Childish but fun! Sadly removed on 2020 models
HK audio is weird. Its both good and bad at the same time. It either has a surround option that seems to throw bits of the audio around the car, a lot of it to the rear or if you turn that off it sounds pretty flat. The surround thing makes all of my music sound very different to how I've ever heard it before. It has a equaliser but the equaliser has no presets, only sliders to play with. Bass isn't earth shattering. By the time you get to about 75% volume the sound seems to fall apart. Sure 75% is too loud, but Dynaudio in a Mk7 is much better. The other funny is that satnav annoucements seem to come from somewhere in the middle of the dash in a tinny sort of way. Odd.
Totally agree with that.
Loads of speakers but bass a bit lacking considering there are supposed to be subs below the front seats
BMW Connected Music (subscription service that you get a year or more for free) is quite good. Lots of choice there.
Wireless android auto was interesting. Worked quite well, except on multiple occassions the audio playback totally fell apart. Just started making weird stuttering noises and I had to turn it off. The wireless charging doesn't keep up with the demands of wireless android auto. If you don't use the charging your phone will be flat in not much time.
The Icon Led Headlights (like Matrix IQ) are nothing short of brilliant. Absolutely incredible.
Not tried the IQ VW lights yet but thought the 7.5 LEDs were a bit brighter than the BMW. The reaction times seemed a bit quicker on the BMW when lights approaching were detected
HUD is superb. Even Waze integrates with it. Barely looked at the dash itself. Maybe was a little too bright at night, I didn't have time to try turning it down, but then maybe its not bright enough for daytime. Possibly needs a day/night mode.
The Idrive interface I found a bit too text heavy and tricky. The main display was cluttered. Sat nav display isn't very clear at all. I expected more. Not sure if this car had the biggest screen you can get. If you could get a bigger one I'd suggest you do.
HUD useful and more so for someone like yourself who spends loads of time on the roads. Less essential for me and I prefer the simplicity of the VW AID when the big central digital speedo inserted into the rev counter option is selected.
Hello BMW! That works really well, all sorts of things you can control with it. It understood what I said pretty much every time even with my accent and using it for navigation or choosing media or radio stations or well, anything, was flawless, speedy and didn't need button pushing at all. Shame her voice seems to come from the same weird tinny speaker as the sat nav.
Reversing assistant - what a hoot! It remembers your last maybe 50m of forward travel, then when you press the button it will drive you backwards up the same way you came in. You do the throttle it steers. Really good. I was nervous but it is dead accurate. BTW the rear view camera gets fouled by bad weather really easily. No idea where it is physically located but most of today its been a blurry mess.
Windscreen wipers on auto seem to have a mind of their own. Annoying.
Had numerous error messages about the forward camera being unavailable. More than just it seemingly giving up, it throws up an annoying message on the central display that you have to click on to make go away. Did it about 5 times today. Could be muck on it, but don't think so. Think it was just seeing scenes it couldn't understand and disabled itself for saftey reasons. Unreliable.
Seats - terrible. Sorry BMW these suck. You sit on them, not in them. Loads of adjustments, it makes no difference. Anyone that wants to sit on the floor, you certainly can. They have adjustable thigh support.
the 135i seats were lovely. I had leather but preferred the alcantara option
Fuel economy for me mainly taking it easy and with a lot of motorway and A roads I managed an average of 30 MPG. Not great. I was averaging mid thirties in the 135i
Handing it back to the Fleet Manager, I had a few glances back and off to the Mk7.5 GTD...
Less premium inside.
AID is much clearer, much better than the BMW. MIB unit is better, but I have navpro.
Car is much noisier on the road but its not as bad as I thought it might be. Can hear road noise and of course the oil burner itself.
Handling definitely not as flat, a little bit of body roll. I'm on 18's with no DCC. However its also a much smoother ride. Much smoother. Still pretty nimble.
Seats.... oh the luxury! I worked out its because you sit in them, the side bolsters on the squab are deeper and extend further forward, it actually grips you (even though the BMW has adjustable width on the vertical bolsters for shoulder width)
Mk7.5 LED headlights seem like they are candle powered after the BMW trick ones.
I'm missing the HUD. Really missing the HUD. I thought I’d miss it but don’t
Stereo (non-dynaudio) seems very front heavy sound, but I get stereo sound which sounds like stereo sound. I don't think surround is much use other than movies.
The Mk7.5 of course has ACC. I missed ACC today. I never use ACC
Manual seems a bit clunky after an auto box for most of the day. But its ok.
Have to say on the on ramp to the motorway the GTD's massive torque didn't seem to be much slower than the more BHP equipped BMW. Interesting.
So the big question.... vs the Mk8 GTI drove the other week.
BMW wins on build and interior quality, external looks and that amazing reversing assistant that I have probably used the one and only time I ever would use it. Agreed.
I never even tried the reverse thing, kept meaning to but didn’t get round to it
Golf wins on gearbox, ride comfort, seats are even better than the Mk7.5, steering feel, instrumentation and seat comfort. It wasn't dark when i drove the Mk8, but expect the lights to be as good as the BMW. Has front and rear swoopy indicators.
My suggestion - get a Golf Mk8 GTI and add some bits to it if you want some of things I talked about the BMW having over a base Mk8. Definitely add the HUD I think.
I couldn't have the BMW because of the seats. Shame. The least technical part of the car and the most important.
Only thing I worry about with the Mk8 seem to be software problems and having keyless entry (the BMW has remote control entry and keyless start).
Does the Mk8 clubsport ride like the 128TI? No idea, but if it does, I'd not buy one. Well, not without DCC.
I wrote this to brain dump the day and help me try and figure out what to do now. Before you ask, I've no idea right now!
Sorry if it was too long and boring!
Glad that job today took me to HQ though....
Very insightful fredgroves and very nicely written too (as ever)
I would never have been interested in the 128ti for some reason. I admire it for what it is but for some reason it doesn’t float my boat at all.
The M135i is superb though and I’d fully expected to keep mine a good while longer and added some nicer looking wheels (although I did like the factory 19’s per se I just fancied something a bit more purposeful).
The Golf feels more like home to me but the 135i is a better car and a great package in my eyes. I do however think VW will pull it back with the 8R and its trick 4wd system that not even the S3 supposedly has.
Many of the features the mk8 GTI has i will hardly use so I’m hoping the haptic buttons won’t irritate me too much but with your type of driving I do hope the UI improves massively with familiarity
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The Mk8 GTI rides well and handles well - it really does. The 128TI rides very hard but because of that, handles very well. Getting that balance right is a tricky job. I think VW are actually the masters of everyday performance and the Mk8 is a step up.
This is the key - the defining feature of a top hot hatch. It's why you should buy the golf.
So I did 😎
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Exonian,
Thanks for taking the time to read and comment.
The harshness of the 128 i don't remember on the 135. They messed with the suspension on the 128 and it's 80kg lighter. Something maybe got lost there in the same way as a mk7 R feels more planted than a GTI (and its not the feeling of 4wd its definitely weight and weight distribution)
I remember reading an early article on the 128 where the person said they were unsure how it would fair on uk roads... Remember that clearly.
I also didn't feel like the 135 was uncomfortable but I had only a standard accompanied test drive of it, maybe it didn't have time for me to notice.
I did notice the fuel economy though back then, it was better. How I don't know.
I did need to do that evaluation, it would have been stupid not to. If luck hadn't been on my side I would have waited but its been a frustrating twelve months plus as I don't like having unresolved problems nagging me every day.
I almost set my self on a course to drive the i30n yesterday... Almost.
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Excellent! What have you ordered?
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Fred, the I30N is worth a drive imo but it’s very harsh compared to a Golf. I couldn’t live with it as a daily plus fuel economy is supposed to be dreadful. I’ve spoken to a few owners and they mostly say low 20s. Gulp!
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Excellent! What have you ordered?
GTI dsg, moonstone, nineteens, dcc, hud and some other bits too... Was dealer stock.
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Fred, the I30N is worth a drive imo but it’s very harsh compared to a Golf. I couldn’t live with it as a daily plus fuel economy is supposed to be dreadful. I’ve spoken to a few owners and they mostly say low 20s. Gulp!
Yes both of those things have put me off for some time. The other thing was a lack of automatic box but they have fixed that with the 2021 model.
I suspect its more cheap 128 than gti.
I have a friend who's a partner at a hyundai dealership, i might get a test drive just for a laugh. He's been trying to persuade me for a while even though he thinks I won't buy one.
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Very nice Fred. Moonstone is a very nice colour, and yes, I’d go for 19s too.
Just seen a video of a car in that spec in wrexham- it really does look good.
We’re living in a police state- you do need a little luck to get normal things done. Well done for taking your opportunity.
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Exonian,
Thanks for taking the time to read and comment.
The harshness of the 128 i don't remember on the 135. They messed with the suspension on the 128 and it's 80kg lighter. Something maybe got lost there in the same way as a mk7 R feels more planted than a GTI (and its not the feeling of 4wd its definitely weight and weight distribution)
I remember reading an early article on the 128 where the person said they were unsure how it would fair on uk roads... Remember that clearly.
I also didn't feel like the 135 was uncomfortable but I had only a standard accompanied test drive of it, maybe it didn't have time for me to notice.
I did notice the fuel economy though back then, it was better. How I don't know.
I did need to do that evaluation, it would have been stupid not to. If luck hadn't been on my side I would have waited but its been a frustrating twelve months plus as I don't like having unresolved problems nagging me every day.
I almost set my self on a course to drive the i30n yesterday... Almost.
I honestly think its a real pity the standard tyre pressure is so high and you didn't have the opportunity to knock it down - it really makes all the difference. The firmness is softened but the witchcraft with which it corners remains. Its a 'B' road machine for sure.
Glad you got the opportunity to test one out and confirm your decision.
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I was allowed a proper drive in her 218i today. The rear camera was completely fouled. So I gave the whole car a quick pressure wash.
We did the shopping this morning. When we arrived back I was wondering why my right knee was aching. Then I remember why I will never be buying a BMW, Audi or Merc. All that fancy, automated assistance at your finger tips and no rest for your right foot. :rolleyes: I love the ability to put both my feet up in the Golf.
Then we went for a drive to umm... ahh... test my eyesight :wink: Love the car, but struggled to get my right leg comfortable. My wife has been driving the A3 with no right foot rest for years. Also, being smaller, maybe it is less of an issue for her. :undecided:
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Here's what Top Gear had to say:
https://www.topgear.com/car-reviews/bmw/128ti
I disagree somewhat!
Not totally convinced they've driven the car actually... I think thats from a spec sheet.
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Just in case anyone still cares.. Here's a man driving a car
https://youtu.be/TYL3ROGeP7E
Here's the summary of what he tells you.. Its a bmw 128ti, it's front wheel drive and has ps4 tyres.
Not sure where you apply for a job like that.
Think I did better, maybe I should make my own YouTube channel.
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Just in case anyone still cares.. Here's a man driving a car
https://youtu.be/TYL3ROGeP7E
Here's the summary of what he tells you.. Its a bmw 128ti, it's front wheel drive and has ps4 tyres.
Not sure where you apply for a job like that.
Think I did better, maybe I should make my own YouTube channel.
Joe Achilles. He’s a massive self confessed BMW fan boy / influencer. Some of his stuff is decent. That was poor though I agree.
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Much prefer the TRHamza review tbh - genuine views of a hot hatch enthusiast.
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I don't mind the fan boy thing, but what did anyone learn from his efforts there?
Even trhamza told you more and that was mainly just grinning and going wow 😂
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The entry bar for setting up a YouTube channel is pretty low. That said, it’s great to have these outlets for reviews these days even if you have to sift through loads of rubbish to find decent content. Years ago you had to wait for the next season of Top Gear or sneak a read of the car mags in the news agent.
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Bmw could release a banana on roller skates and Joe would love it. There’s no objectivity in his reviews.
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Bmw could release a banana on roller skates and Joe would love it. There’s no objectivity in his reviews.
:grin:
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Lots of :grin: :grin: at some of those observations guys.
I never really got into YouTube because: I’m old, I detest narcissistic self promoters and I generally had much better things to do.
However this year, despite being busy as hell 90% of the time, I managed to start watching a few of these ‘channels’ occasionally so that I could avoid going out mingling with the irrepressibly stupid and the arrogantly self entitled that swarmed my area “because it’s safe down here so we don’t have to follow rules like we do at home” and yeah, I still managed to get the zombie apocalypse virus thanks to their efforts. :rolleyes:
Anyway, one of the first I got to see was Joe Achilles having a short term loan of a just released M135i x-Drive direct from BMW UK so he could influence away.
Fake enthusiasm overload. The car wasn’t a hugely overpowered RWD saloon and so in all honesty he probably thought it was dull. Alas he’s trying to make a living out of it and seems like a very nice chap so I watched a few more of his vids. Then I stopped because I’m not a BMW overpowered RWD saloon fanboy being paid by BMW/Audi.
About the same time I discovered a man called Ped. Now he seems like a nice chap too but f**k me... 😴😴😴
Having decided YouTube was not for me I then happened upon a ‘channel’ that looked like it would be in all German but decided I’d go with it anyway and that’s where I got a little bit of hope up. That just happened to be Thomas of Autogefuel (sp?)
A far more professional magazine style review at last.
A mixed bunch. At least YouTube isn’t exclusively for finding out how to fix your bog seat hinges I now know.
Oh, and Mat Watson can be amusing in a throwaway sort of way.
Thus I became an occasional viewer rather than a total avoider.
I’ll probably stop again when every other video is exclaiming “look, it has drift mode yo!” when the VW Press fleet Lapiz R’s become the internet’s next A45S.
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I like a bit of YouTube. Not much you can't find a how to video on and that is basically a gateway drug.. I've watched people crushing things with a hydraulic press , learnt about spear fighting and know far too much now about taxidermy.
All more interesting than Joe Achilles. I recommend the other stuff.
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God help me, I now feel obliged to find out about spear fighting.
I can’t forgive you for that one I’m afraid.
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I’ve just watched Joe driving the 128ti.
I found it quite entertaining which isn’t bad going as I have a short span of attention and am easily bored.
The road surface looked pretty bad so his comments about acceptable ride quality seemed at odds with yours Fred, and seats are a very personal thing.
The 128 does look a cracking car and I like how they’ve differentiated it from the 135, a shame they didn’t carry the tombstone seats over though.
Personally I’d still prefer the 135 over the 128 for quite a few reasons but the 128 does look a very appealing package and it’s good to see the bracing bars are carried over from the 4wd car which help to make the 1 series so solid feeling.
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"acceptable" ride means different things to different people. I find it unacceptable to be shaken around... Like in a mini...
I understand what the hardness gives you.. On a track...just as I understand what a roll cage or five point harnesses do...for a racing car.
My car is very much non performance, it doesn't need to be on the road and i don't need the discomfort.
Probably Joe is comparing it to some M car. Probably feels soft compared to that. Another car that's also not for me.
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I agree, Fred- particularly your first point.
I would add that what is acceptable for an hour or two on a test drive may be quite different to what is acceptable day in day out several hours a day.
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I agree, Fred- particularly your first point.
I would add that what is acceptable for an hour or two on a test drive may be quite different to what is acceptable day in day out several hours a day.
Yeah. Loved the I30N on on a test drive but couldn’t live with it. Ride quality is so subjective. Joe likes his M cars so he’s probably comparing it to those. Each to their own. A fella at my cousins work has an M2 and my cousin a 140i. The fella with the M2 said he would take the 140 as a daily every time.
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Yes, I was very happy that I had best part of a day with the BMW. The usual twenty minute drive I'd have barely noticed anything. It took a long time to start to suffer!
I guarantee I'd be trying sell that car right now if I'd bought it.
Joe is never going to buy that car and it's not in his interest as a reviewer to say anything negative. Definitely people would not lend him things to have him potentially say "don't buy this". The only time you can do that is if you truly are a big media outlet and even then you can get not invited if you slag some products off.
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I come from a background of warmed over hatches and uprated (aftermarket) suspension so I’m a bit like a reformed smoker - I have very low tolerances of “bad” ride now.
I like firm-ish and controlled damping but cannot abide any crashiness and the 135 had that pretty nailed on.
The 128 has never been of any interest to me but I do think Joe would have pulled a few faces if the ride had been really bad (compared to what he’s used to). As said though, a spirited drive in a test car isn’t like living with the thing day to day especially if doing mega miles.
It’ll be good to see a few group tests of these latest generation hatches on real roads over decent mileages rather than journos just hacking around test tracks or trying to do tail slides.
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I think the 'hardness' of the ride is being over cooked - its firmer than my GTD for sure - not crashy though, its not jarring when you go over a pothole or similar however cornering and general handling are in another league altogether.
Its certainly not 'hard' - not like Audi 'S' cars where a few years ago (8P S3 - looking at you...).
I didn't find the joe achillies review particularly revealing - TRHamza review pretty much mirrored my thoughts on the car exactly.
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TRHamza review pretty much mirrored my thoughts on the car exactly.
I like him, he is a normal guy not blagging cars from and plugging a dealership so he can say what he likes.
He mainly says "oh yeah" and grins, but that's quite a natural thing. These sorts of cars are meant to be fun.
I just find it frustrating that nobody seems to really want to spend the time driving a car for a while and then seriously looking at it like I would if I wanted to buy it.
I don't mean stupid track tests or drag strip times, I mean actually talking about it as a real world owner.
Talk about the good, talk about the not so good, try to highlight where better value can be found in the real world.
I think if you go back to my writeup on this thread I didn't say I found nothing to love, I found lots to love... except the comfort.
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I don't mean stupid track tests or drag strip times, I mean actually talking about it as a real world owner.
Talk about the good, talk about the not so good, try to highlight where better value can be found in the real world.
Yeah, my thoughts exactly.
For the reasons above ^ I quite like Alex on Autos. He is US-based, so the cars tested can vary a bit from UK or Aus specification, but he generally puts plenty of miles on them in real-World conditions. He is slightly nerdy, well very nerdy actually, but gives very down-to-Earth assessments, IMO.
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I’ve just watched Joe driving the 128ti.
I found it quite entertaining which isn’t bad going as I have a short span of attention and am easily bored.
The road surface looked pretty bad so his comments about acceptable ride quality seemed at odds with yours Fred, and seats are a very personal thing.
The 128 does look a cracking car and I like how they’ve differentiated it from the 135, a shame they didn’t carry the tombstone seats over though.
Personally I’d still prefer the 135 over the 128 for quite a few reasons but the 128 does look a very appealing package and it’s good to see the bracing bars are carried over from the 4wd car which help to make the 1 series so solid feeling.
I can't believe his review doesn't once mention the Golf GTI as this is the market that BMW is aiming for. He just compares it to the 135i.
I like the 128 but not with the red accents. They are too much. The GTI managed to make a splash of red look good, especially on my Tungsten one. I think if you have the 128ti in red you get black accents which look much better. The red works well on the interior though as BMW can be quite dull colour-wise inside.
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Excellent! What have you ordered?
GTI dsg, moonstone, nineteens, dcc, hud and some other bits too... Was dealer stock.
Hi Fred
Good write up on the 128ti. Interesting to hear the seats weren't up to scratch. That is what pushed me away from Audi (loved the car and feel...but was sat on the seat, not in the seat. So BMW have similar set up (at least on 128ti). You were definitely in the right place at the right time to see Fleet Manager and get an extended test drive. That is so helpful to actually do some distance and spent time in a car rather than here's 20min now hand over £33k etc
Good to hear you have ordered something now, I thought this search was going to continue into the year (due to lockdown and regulations). I was waiting for the inside story on the i30N test drive, so little disappointed I might have to do my own research now. Recent youtube video was Rory Reid driving it and as others have commented elsewhere, it does seem to have a harsh ride but not sure whether the reviews I've seen are new enought to take in the revised suspension settings.
I look forward to hearing your thoughts on your new GTI and look forward to hearing how you find the HUD, which is something I would be keen on.
Well done on your purchase.
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Cheers Andy.
The I30n test drive might still happen, but definitely not until after lockdown ends... April 202x maybe :cry:
I'll certainly post up my thoughts on my GTI when I get it. Good, bad, indifferent - I'll pull no punches!
Just hoping my hour in the Mk8 was enough to have got it right, but fairly sure it was - there is a lot of Golfness about it.
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I'll chuck this in here because its both off topic and also basically the same thing as a 1 series ( :laugh: :whistle:):
https://www.carmagazine.co.uk/car-news/first-official-pictures/mini/hatch/
Not quite sure where BMW are going with that but.... is that haptic buttons I see on that steering wheel?
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Im not sure about the steering wheel buttons, as in not sure if they are haptic touch or not from the picture.
I was more concerned with the goatie beard that has appeared on the front of the Mini. Generally black tones down the excessive bling of the chrome but it just looks like an all round beard
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Ahh, a proper BMW!
A bit like with the mk8 Golf, I think the styling will be badly received but eventually semi-forgiven and the current design vogue is evident in both with sharp creases and blends of curves and straight lines, not to mention the gaping gobs.
Definitely looks like haptics on the steering wheel, the 1 series has haptic buttons around the iDrive wheel knob too. The latter not feeling quite as vague as VW’s but very flat in design so completely lacking in any pleasant tactility.
Roll on the Electric JCW as that’s the first electric car that actually intrigues me, subject to what it actually ends up looking and driving like.
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I was waiting for the inside story on the i30N test drive, so little disappointed I might have to do my own research now. Recent youtube video was Rory Reid driving it and as others have commented elsewhere, it does seem to have a harsh ride but not sure whether the reviews I've seen are new enought to take in the revised suspension settings.
If you want to see some track madness.... have a look at this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ayywmZ1S_GA
GTI vs ST and I30n.
I know you are unlikely to choose a car based on such a piece of nonsense but check out that result!
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I was waiting for the inside story on the i30N test drive, so little disappointed I might have to do my own research now. Recent youtube video was Rory Reid driving it and as others have commented elsewhere, it does seem to have a harsh ride but not sure whether the reviews I've seen are new enought to take in the revised suspension settings.
If you want to see some track madness.... have a look at this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ayywmZ1S_GA
GTI vs ST and I30n.
I know you are unlikely to choose a car based on such a piece of nonsense but check out that result!
Thanks Fred. That is really useful as my trip to the supermarket is just like that and I try and do it in 2 minutes as well.
Clearly it’s the ST I should be looking at.😂😂😂😂
But seriously, I wasn’t expecting GTI over N. Can argue ST has most (marginal) power but thought the i30N might shine a little more in its lap time. Obviously what is does show is how it’s not all about power if Golf can split the 270ish cars.
I realise a hell of lot of variables etc but just on the three lap times and what we know of cars. Of course the answer really is, how is this really going to affect anyone in real world on real roads.
Thanks for sharing
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Probably that and the clubby getting better of a type R tells us that people who drive Golfs are nutters 😂
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But seriously, I wasn’t expecting GTI over N. Can argue ST has most (marginal) power but thought the i30N might shine a little more in its lap time. Obviously what is does show is how it’s not all about power if Golf can split the 270ish cars.
I realise a hell of lot of variables etc but just on the three lap times and what we know of cars. Of course the answer really is, how is this really going to affect anyone in real world on real roads.
Thanks for sharing
The i30N was let down by the p-zeros. I have those and can confirm that they are disappointing in anything other than warm and dry conditions. Even then they aren't great.
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But seriously, I wasn’t expecting GTI over N. Can argue ST has most (marginal) power but thought the i30N might shine a little more in its lap time. Obviously what is does show is how it’s not all about power if Golf can split the 270ish cars.
I realise a hell of lot of variables etc but just on the three lap times and what we know of cars. Of course the answer really is, how is this really going to affect anyone in real world on real roads.
Thanks for sharing
The i30N was let down by the p-zeros. I have those and can confirm that they are disappointing in anything other than warm and dry conditions. Even then they aren't great.
Always seems funny that manufacturers say the car is fitted with "x" tyres that have been developed specially for the car... but it appears they are useless when the cars hit the street and we can't wait to switch to another brand
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"specially developed" usually means "best price secured for a mutli year supply contract"
Always remember that your aircraft was built by the lowest bidder...
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"specially developed" usually means "best price secured for a mutli year supply contract"
Always remember that your aircraft was built by the lowest bidder...
:grin: :grin: :grin:
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Tyres developed specially for the car? These kind of statements need to go with a huge dose of salt.
Weather / climate / road surface are huge factors in the performance and effectiveness of a tyre, regardless of which car they're fitted to.
Don't forget people in Germany and colder parts of Europe take their summer tyres off for several months of the year and swap them for something more suitable, whereas most of us Brits soldier on with the same tyres we'd use when the temperature is in the high 20°C's?
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"specially developed" usually means "best price secured for a mutli year supply contract"
Always remember that your aircraft was built by the lowest bidder...
and built to a reduced spec in the cheapest region possible which bears little resemblance to the tyre you might buy from the shop other than in name!!
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Tyres developed specially for the car? These kind of statements need to go with a huge dose of salt.
Weather / climate / road surface are huge factors in the performance and effectiveness of a tyre, regardless of which car they're fitted to.
Don't forget people in Germany and colder parts of Europe take their summer tyres off for several months of the year and swap them for something more suitable, whereas most of us Brits soldier on with the same tyres we'd use when the temperature is in the high 20°C's?
that's exactly the issue. The summer tyres are perfectly fine for the summer but they should really be swapped for an all season or winter setup when required. We just seem particularity stuck in our ways in the UK and don't think anything should change.
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We don't have the laws to make that happen though - thats why they do it, not because individuals care, but because they can be fined for not doing it.
This then leads to things like tyre hotels so people can store their spare set of wheels/tyres, which enables people to achieve it.
I believe German car leasing also often includes the wheels/service to facilitate it too.
However, we in the UK don't have the same continental climate you see in Germany. Our weather is influenced by the ocean, its a wetter but not hotter/colder place. Our main condition our tyres need to cope with is rain.
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It's not just rain though it's also temperature.
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Hell yeah, on my old M135i I'd be changing off the SuperSports as soon as it was regularly below about 5degrees, they just turned to plastic. It was unstoppable with CrossClimates and the LSD.
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Circa twelve hundred quid for wheels and tyres plus more junk to be moaned about by Mrs G.... I'll just stay home the one day it snows every five years lol
I've not lost a car yet to cold roads yet in three decades and three quarters of a million miles plus.
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Circa twelve hundred quid for wheels and tyres plus more junk to be moaned about by Mrs G.... I'll just stay home the one day it snows every five years lol
I've not lost a car yet to cold roads yet in three decades and three quarters of a million miles plus.
me neither Fred but I'm happy knowing that the all seasons are better in the cold temperatures and it's been bloody cold up here in Sunderland/Durham ❄️ :grin:
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It's only really when you've tried all seasons / winters in winter conditions that you appreciate just how much better than summer tyres they are.
As good as PS4's, Asymmetric 5's etc are in the summer, they can't match a good all season or winter tyre in the colder temps.
Volkswizard has just done a new video about all seasons just today, interesting watch (for those that care about tyres :grin:).
https://youtu.be/RdGwjVzfwx4
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Completely agree, living in the frozen north snow tyres are a game changer. cross climates are a very very good compromise - but obviously not quite as good as proper snow tyres (in the snow - no real difference in general cold/wet weather).
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I started to fit winters after the 09-10 winter,it was that bad we couldn’t get the cars up the hill to our house.
The next winter was just as bad but,I was ready this time.
We’re the only ones to get our cars up the street without even spinning a wheel.
The neighbours still park at the bottom and walk.
When the temperature drops bellow 7c and the roads are wet,what a difference they make.
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It's only really when you've tried all seasons / winters in winter conditions that you appreciate just how much better than summer tyres they are.
As good as PS4's, Asymmetric 5's etc are in the summer, they can't match a good all season or winter tyre in the colder temps.
Volkswizard has just done a new video about all seasons just today, interesting watch (for those that care about tyres :grin:).
https://youtu.be/RdGwjVzfwx4
I watched that video yesterday. Those are the same tyres we fitted to the new BMW on day one - at the beginning of January. This winter our road has been really bad with snow and ice. I was actually wondering if I made the right decision opting for 4 season tyres. I was not driving the BMW when the conditions were bad. We usually took my Golf with winter tyres. Though, I don't think my wife noticed much difference between the old worn Conti WinterContact TS850 and new Goodyear Vector Gen 3.
I was driving my parents C220 on snow covered roads with Michelin CrossClimate tyres. They look like a summer tyre i.e. no sipes (fine cuts in the tread blocks to give better grip). The tyres did work ok, but I did notice a lot more ABS and traction control activation than on my winter tyres. And I was being a lot more cautious than I would drive my car in those conditions. That's why I opted for a more winter focused 4 season tyre for my wife's car.
I only discovered recently that there is a difference between all season and 4 season tyres. Only tyres called 4 season are guaranteed to work on snow and ice. All season tyres are really just better in cold and wet weather, not necessarily on snow and ice. They should be called 3 season tyres to stop the confusion.
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The Goodyear and the Michelin both have the 3 peak symbol so are good to use in the snow 👍
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The Goodyear and the Michelin both have the 3 peak symbol so are good to use in the snow 👍
I think all the tyres work reasonably well in snow. Having driven on the Michelin CrossClimate - they just don't have the same grip on polished snow and ice as my Vredestine Wintrac Pros. Probably because they don't have the extra edges from the sipes cut into the tyres.
I can't comment yet on how the Goodyear's 4 seasons perform on compacted snow. Though, they have sipes just like a winter tyres.
The Michelin CrossClimate are better for 95% of our weather, However, given my recent experience, I would be really cautious using them on polished snow and ice. :undecided:
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Thats my experience with them as well - they will get you out of a situation a summer tyre won't - but not as effortlessly as a true winter tyre. With our climate though that small compromise vs swapping tyres is probably worth it for the vast majority of people.
Similarly they are not as good as the best summer tyres in nice dry weather, but only if you're really keen on exploring the limits of your cars handling (I guess most of us who take the time to buy performance orientated cars). But more than acceptable for the majority of drivers and their driving style.
IMO the cross climate type tyres should be the default type of tyre in the UK - and proper summer / winter tyres a smaller part of the market.
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That's a good point about cross climates maybe should be default but there probably is a few reasons for it not being the case.
First one will be that that we discussed about the i30n track times... The oem fit whatever they get a good deal on. Until your car comes new with cross climates most people wouldn't consider fitting them. Nobody wants to gamble four tyres worth of money when they could just stick with what they know.
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My dad said the C220 was the worst car he had ever driven on snow. He could not get the car up the drive to the house. It’s not a steep drive. When it was time to change the tyres he wanted the cheapest ones. :cry:
I had a word with my mum and she bought the Michelin CrossClimates. I pointed out that the tyres would perform much better and last much longer than cheap nomake ditch finders.
It saddens me that my father insisted on a C220 then would not put decent tyres on it. It’s stupid buying a car like that then putting the cheapest tyres on it :sad: Thankfully mum is more reasonable.
So, unless it’s law, it’s not going to happen.
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I think it will gradually become more the norm - to begin with the michelin cross climates were the only tyre like that on the market. Now there are a few other brands doing the 'all season thing'. Soon there will be more budget versions available and that might make the all season concept more mainstream.
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I couldn’t sleep last night so decided I’d try and bore myself unconscious with some YouTube vids.
I’m now an expert on the facelifted Mini after that little solo soirée.
Anyhow, it was interesting watching the Goodyear All-Season review by Andrew Volkswizard.
Being as the last time it snowed where I live was 18th March 2018 (quite a memorable day) I don’t think full winter tyres would be at the top of my essential purchases list but some all seasons to run over winter have often appealed to me.
Some good thinking on here around these tyres should be mandatory fitment in the UK for anything but possibly focussed high performance cars (during summer at least for the latter exception).
Having said that, it only takes a sustained brainwashing session these days using a few well known names to ‘educate’ the masses. For example just about everyone I know who isn’t a complete petrolhead (therefore most people I know) have eyes on either hybrid or full EV’s as their next purchase.
I’m sure the same could be done for tyres if the collective will of government, insurers and tyre manufacturers were remotely bothered (even in non-pandemic times).
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I think it will gradually become more the norm - to begin with the michelin cross climates were the only tyre like that on the market. Now there are a few other brands doing the 'all season thing'. Soon there will be more budget versions available and that might make the all season concept more mainstream.
Anyhow, it was interesting watching the Goodyear All-Season review by Andrew Volkswizard.
Being as the last time it snowed where I live was 18th March 2018 (quite a memorable day) I don’t think full winter tyres would be at the top of my essential purchases list but some all seasons to run over winter have often appealed to me.
... using a few well known names to ‘educate’ the masses.
Lets start the education here. The tyres we are talking about are NOT all season. They are 4 season tyres. :tongue:
The VolksWizard video mentioned something about law changing in 2024. So I had a google. :nerd: Zee Germans are making it law that all tyres must have the 3 peaks mountain symbol during the winter months. Apparently even summer tyres can be stamped with M+S and qualify as 'all season', without actually having any snow and ice capabilities.
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Mandatory winter tyres in the Uk? Blimey, we aren’t leaving much room for personal freedom!
Not cold enough for long enough in most of the UK.
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Nah, it won't be made mandatory - but it should be encouraged.
It doesn't have to be expensive. I had 17" X5 steels for £35 each new off a German site, the CrossClimates can always be found on a deal and for every mile I was doing in the winter months, I wasn't wearing out £xxx/corner summer rubber.
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Lets start the education here. The tyres we are talking about are NOT all season. They are 4 season tyres. :tongue:
Darn it, I fell asleep at the back of the class again. :lipsrsealed:
Well, being as there are four seasons i figured that was all the seasons :whistle:
It’ll sink into my head one day :grin:
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I'll stick to pizzas. I know my pizza. Four seasons, very predictable.
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Mandatory winter tyres in the Uk? Blimey, we aren’t leaving much room for personal freedom! Not cold enough for long enough in most of the UK.
I am a big fan of winter tyres, but I have come to realise that they are not the best option for the UK. Tyre technology is developing really fast. A modern 4 season tyre is possibly the best option for the UK. Unfortunately, I doubt if it will ever become a legal requirement.
Due in large part to Audi marketing, more people believe that 4 wheel drive is what you need in the snow and ice. Including many motoring journalists. I still can not find any independent articles or video that show the safety advantage of 4 wheel drive. In fact, if you google 4WD myths you will find that 4WD safety is a myth!
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Well, being as there are four seasons i figured that was all the seasons :whistle:
It is confusing.
Germans make it law to fit good tyres in winter. While marketing Quattro to the gullible UK motorist :angry:
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Mandatory winter tyres in the Uk? Blimey, we aren’t leaving much room for personal freedom! Not cold enough for long enough in most of the UK.
I am a big fan of winter tyres, but I have come to realise that they are not the best option for the UK. Tyre technology is developing really fast. A modern 4 season tyre is possibly the best option for the UK. Unfortunately, I doubt if it will ever become a legal requirement.
Due in large part to Audi marketing, more people believe that 4 wheel drive is what you need in the snow and ice. Including many motoring journalists. I still can not find any independent articles or video that show the safety advantage of 4 wheel drive. In fact, if you google 4WD myths you will find that 4WD safety is a myth!
My point was it shouldn’t be a legal requirement here, winter, cross climate or whatever. There’s plenty of other things you could do that would have a far bigger impact on safety- like mandatory speed limiters- but most on this forum would be up in arms at that suggestion!
I did find the volkswizard video interesting. It would be good to have one car with cross climate tyres, though I wouldn’t want them on my gti.
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Speed limiting is coming... Think its 2022.
That thing where the mk8 cruise control uses GPS and traffic sign recognition to reduce the set speed.... That's going to work differently soon...
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Mandatory winter tyres in the Uk? Blimey, we aren’t leaving much room for personal freedom! Not cold enough for long enough in most of the UK.
I am a big fan of winter tyres, but I have come to realise that they are not the best option for the UK. Tyre technology is developing really fast. A modern 4 season tyre is possibly the best option for the UK. Unfortunately, I doubt if it will ever become a legal requirement.
Due in large part to Audi marketing, more people believe that 4 wheel drive is what you need in the snow and ice. Including many motoring journalists. I still can not find any independent articles or video that show the safety advantage of 4 wheel drive. In fact, if you google 4WD myths you will find that 4WD safety is a myth!
On the issue of AWD, I would imagine a light AWD car would be pretty good in snow. A GR yaris for example.
Most AWD are those big SUV lumps- too heavy to stop! I’m ashamed to admit we had an X5 ( it was the wife’s really) which I didn’t particularly like driving in the snow
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Speed limiting is coming... Think its 2022.
That thing where the mk8 cruise control uses GPS and traffic sign recognition to reduce the set speed.... That's going to work differently soon...
Yeah technology is there to limit speed and to very easily track how fast people are going.
They’re taking the joy out of life!
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Speed limiting is coming... Think its 2022.
That thing where the mk8 cruise control uses GPS and traffic sign recognition to reduce the set speed.... That's going to work differently soon...
Does the new Golf have ‘speed limit assist’ like the new BMW?
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It would be good to have one car with cross climate tyres, though I wouldn’t want them on my gti.
I have winter tyres on my GTI. They are better than the OEM Bridgestones below 7C. And, of course, they work on snow and ice. The issue I have with either set of tyres is traction above 4000 revs. The only solution is 4 wheel drive. :evil: