The Petrol vs Diesel debate

[fredgroves]

Its 600kg heavier than a GTD... stands to reason that its more polluting and that's before you consider aerodynamic drag. You can't escape basic physics

And I think that's really what that article should have been saying - not just V8 Range Rovers, but any SUV style vehicle is heavier than its hatchback donor and shaped more like a brick.

Combine that with an increased CO2 output from swapping to "new smaller greener petrol engines" and you've got that rise in overall UK car CO2 emissions.

[DTX3]

For me it was the GTI speeeeeeed!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6s_qA6U32NE

[Jim_mk7.5]

I chose the GTI for my company car as I wanted petrol again, a better noise, and for me, a hot hatch isn't powered by a diesel. With hybrids and full electric upon us, I saw an opportunity to have a fun car that realistically does't cost me a fortune. Drove a new GTD recently and it's a great car, but certainly not as responsive as the GTI. The GTI is also the most distinctive of the 4 performance Golfs (GTE, GTD and R). I'm getting around 33mpg on long term with a mixture of driving including lots of paddles and full bursts of acceleration. If I am thinking about fuel on a long run then its fairly easy to achieve 40mpg. The GTI makes me smile, so its worth it 

[Sootchucker]

Its 600kg heavier than a GTD... stands to reason that its more polluting and that's before you consider aerodynamic drag. You can't escape basic physics

And I think that's really what that article should have been saying - not just V8 Range Rovers, but any SUV style vehicle is heavier than its hatchback donor and shaped more like a brick.

Combine that with an increased CO2 output from swapping to "new smaller greener petrol engines" and you've got that rise in overall UK car CO2 emissions.

Come on Fred, you're teasing me now 

According to the two brochures I have in front of me, a GTD, DSG 5 door has a gross vehicle weight of 1900kg, and a Karoc Edition 1.5 TSI DSG is 1934kg (so only 34kg difference) ? Indeed the unladen weight reported for both is actually 1416kg for the GTD and 1400kg for the Karoc, so to all intents and purposes, they are the same. Not sure where you got your 600kg heavier from ? Were you looking at their much larger Kodiac (their Touareg) or that smaller Karoc ?

[fredgroves]

Maybe I found the wrong details, the Skoda figure came from the Skoda configurator, but I couldn't find the same detail from the VW site, so googled it.

[Sootchucker]

No harm no foul.... just teasing bud.

[I wanted a GTi]

I'm constantly amazed at how quickly the engine reaches normal operating temperature (approx 2 miles) compared to my GTD (approx 10-12 miles), and the lovely sound it makes and how free revving it is.

What are you doing man?

My GTD reaches normal temp (at this time of year), definitely in under 2.5 miles. I've noted this several times over the years when we've been talking about GTDs vs temperature and fuel economy. I remember very clearly the point on the road from my house where its warmed up and have just double checked google for the distance.

Now, I'm going to be totally out there now. Last weekend I went with a friend to test drive Skoda's new Karoq, which for those that don't know is the companies new compact SUV.

From IWAG's link earlier up this thread:

"The new unintended consequence here is that while people are moving away from diesel cars as the Government wanted, they’re not buying lower emissions vehicles, instead they’re buying high polluting, big engine petrol SUVs, which is leading to an unprecedented rise in CO2 emissions"

Sounds like you are going there too! (so did IWAG with his VW Peasant Crusher)

To be fair Fred one of the reasons I'm going for a Tiguan is because of my back problems and getting in and especially out of it is much easier in the Tiguan.

That and I've always liked them, even more so with the Mk2

[Agreeable Slick]

I travel 15k a year just going to work on average, and until last year was quite happily trundling around in a 55plate Passat 130PD. It was a great estate, and nearly never let me down. Maintenance on it was fairly painless as I'm not bad with the spanners, but it did start to become more expensive to run as mileage increased, and cost in general was going up. So I decided to part with it.

This took me down much the same route in terms of my thinking, and ended up looking at smaller hatches of which diesel was the first place I went. Averaged similar mpg to the Passat, £30 tax I think it was, reliable, comfy at motorway speeds, I tried a few different varieties and was looking at an all singing and dancing mk7 GTD. 15 plate for sub 14k which was a big draw as well.

I ended up with the GTI PP.

Sure it doesn't do as many MPG's, but it's just as versatile and puts a larger grin on my face that I think the GTD ever could, especially when I get the LSD to kick in.

Do I think diesel is dead, far from it. I do think petrol will start having a resurgence though.

[fredgroves]

I don't think anyone would doubt that a GTI would be MORE fun. Its just that at £100 a month ish extra for all the additional costs I would always be imagining what other fun I could have had for the same money...

I probably even would go so far as to say that with a better price point, I'd go down to a 150ps oil burning engine... if they bundled GTI/GTD equipment levels to a lesser engine'd vehicle.... and the resultant saving was another hundred quid... Doesn't work out like that though. To spec a GT or R line to GTD spec costs more than the GTD. Madness really, but I guess thats marketing for you.

Half the appeal of the GTD to me was the spec as much as the performance. It really is a very well loaded car with useful practical tech for the serious driver.

[Jim_mk7.5]

I don't think anyone would doubt that a GTI would be MORE fun. Its just that at £100 a month ish extra for all the additional costs I would always be imagining what other fun I could have had for the same money...

I probably even would go so far as to say that with a better price point, I'd go down to a 150ps oil burning engine... if they bundled GTI/GTD equipment levels to a lesser engine'd vehicle.... and the resultant saving was another hundred quid... Doesn't work out like that though. To spec a GT or R line to GTD spec costs more than the GTD. Madness really, but I guess thats marketing for you.

Half the appeal of the GTD to me was the spec as much as the performance. It really is a very well loaded car with useful practical tech for the serious driver.

Agree there Fred, I think I tried spec'ing up an R Line to GTD and its far more expensive!