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Model specific boards => Golf mk7 => Topic started by: WatchThis on 13 February 2019, 19:28

Title: When Eco mode isn't Eco mode....
Post by: WatchThis on 13 February 2019, 19:28
So, car in anything other than Eco mode. I get either S or D as the prefix to the gear indicator.
Put the car in Eco and I get E as the prefix to the gear indicator and 'Eco' displayed in the top left corner of the infotainment display. Drive down the road without the adaptive cruise control on and when I lift off, the revs drop to tick-over and the car reports 'Cruising' on the economy view on the dash. All is well. :smiley:
Now, if I kill the engine and restart, it still says 'Eco' on the infotainment and the mode screen also shows 'Eco', but the gear indicator prefix is 'D' and it won't go into 'Cruising' when I lift off..
I can get it back into 'proper' Eco, by pressing the Mode button repeatedly until it cycles back round to Eco.
Anyone else get this? Will VW take this moan seriously?  :laugh:

 
Title: Re: When Eco mode isn't Eco mode....
Post by: clarky92 on 13 February 2019, 20:05
So, car in anything other than Eco mode. I get either S or D as the prefix to the gear indicator.
Put the car in Eco and I get E as the prefix to the gear indicator and 'Eco' displayed in the top left corner of the infotainment display. Drive down the road without the adaptive cruise control on and when I lift off, the revs drop to tick-over and the car reports 'Cruising' on the economy view on the dash. All is well. :smiley:
Now, if I kill the engine and restart, it still says 'Eco' on the infotainment and the mode screen also shows 'Eco', but the gear indicator prefix is 'D' and it won't go into 'Cruising' when I lift off..
I can get it back into 'proper' Eco, by pressing the Mode button repeatedly until it cycles back round to Eco.
Anyone else get this? Will VW take this moan seriously?  :laugh:

That's correct, it's by design.
Title: Re: When Eco mode isn't Eco mode....
Post by: WatchThis on 13 February 2019, 20:22
Would be nice if all the other modes were this crap too on a restart... :laugh:
Title: Re: When Eco mode isn't Eco mode....
Post by: fredgroves on 14 February 2019, 09:36
Sport is the same IIRC....
Title: Re: When Eco mode isn't Eco mode....
Post by: Jim_mk7.5 on 14 February 2019, 09:42

I can get it back into 'proper' Eco, by pressing the Mode button repeatedly until it cycles back round to Eco.


You don't have cycle through all the modes to activate proper Eco again - just press the mode button once and tap the Eco button on the screen.
Title: Re: When Eco mode isn't Eco mode....
Post by: DTX3 on 14 February 2019, 10:03
Yes an annoying design. Only takes a few seconds to switch back however.
Title: Re: When Eco mode isn't Eco mode....
Post by: Watts on 14 February 2019, 10:35
Could it be the car telling you an Eco mode on a GTI is a stupid idea? :whistle: :rolleyes: :laugh:
Title: Re: When Eco mode isn't Eco mode....
Post by: Dazzla on 15 February 2019, 10:10
Hi, I have been running my Golf in Eco (to try and justify its not too expensive to run) and was getting around 41mpg, I'm now in normal mode and getting 43-44 mpg... WTF!  :laugh:
Title: Re: When Eco mode isn't Eco mode....
Post by: mcmaddy on 15 February 2019, 13:37
Eco mode dulls the throttle response so you invariably use more throttle to push on. The GTi isn't an expensive car to run and why it needs a pointless eco mode option is beyond most people. You want eco mode in a GTi then you probably bought the wrong car.
Title: Re: When Eco mode isn't Eco mode....
Post by: monkeyhanger on 15 February 2019, 14:07
If you're in Eco mode with DSG in "E" gear selection, you have marginal gains from freewheeling down gradients. The throttle response is dulled too, so pressing the throttle to just before the clicky bit (that's like an old kick down botton), you'll get the same response as about half that travel in Sport Mode. Normal gives you about 3/4 of Sport mode's response, but with no freewheeling gains and "D" gear selection. Sport gives you full throttle response across the range of the pedal travel, and "S" gear change thresholds have you holding about 3k revs as a minimum in any gear under low load before it'll change up.

Throttle response doesn't affect mpg directly, you use less pedal in Sport mode to attain and maintain the same speed in Normal or Eco. Sport is thirsty if you leave the gearbox in S mode. I have my Polo GTI+ in Sport mode, but keep the Gearbox in "D" (pull back against the spring on thd lever to cycle between D and S when Sport mode is active, or between D and E when eco mode is active)- that way I have the pedal/engine response of Sport but don't hold onto high revs when the car isn't getting driven hard.

It's as economical as normal mode, with Sport response when you put your foot down.

So...how many people drive theirs in Eco and Normal, then added a pedal box because their throttle response felt dull?
Title: Re: When Eco mode isn't Eco mode....
Post by: Watts on 15 February 2019, 15:22
Throttle response was poor in mine in every mode, the pedal box makes it perfect and most of the time I use Normal because the soundaktor is too noisy (but I don't want to switch it off as sometimes I like it)..
Title: Re: When Eco mode isn't Eco mode....
Post by: scanesare on 16 February 2019, 19:22
If you're in Eco mode with DSG in "E" gear selection, you have marginal gains from freewheeling down gradients.

...

So...how many people drive theirs in Eco and Normal, then added a pedal box because their throttle response felt dull?

My experience from the daily commute dictates otherwise. Freewheeling gives a small but noticeable mpg improvement and I have never been able to hit such low consumption figures as when I drive in ECO on the same route, same conditions. This (and not the lazier throttle response) is why on the boring slow drives where no real progress can be made I switch to ECO and go on an economy challenge. With a pedal box you cancel out the lazy throttle response too so the drive is still bearable. Let's not forget that throttle response of ECO mode with a pedal box on is miles better than the one of Sport mode!

However, the above is true when you want to drive as economically as possible (ie. always outside of turbo spool). For normal driving with mixed acceleration scenarios the ECO's benefit of coasting is eliminated by a) the lazy throttle response and b) the limited boost available. Not sure how known this is but in ECO mode the ECU limits boost to something like 0.6-0.8bar IIRC (that's on a CS) from the full 1.2 bar on Normal and Sport so in an acceleration scenario you will work the engine longer to get where you want. That would explain the less MPG in ECO than in Normal reported a few posts back, assuming it concerned mixed driving.
Title: Re: When Eco mode isn't Eco mode....
Post by: nigeldodd on 08 March 2019, 14:25
How timely this debate is. I have only just discovered Eco mode after having had the car for a year (7.5 dsg pp). It really does test the skill of looking ahead and having your horizon in the distance.

It is a pain to have to press the mode button five times to return to eco. It is the most inaccessible button on a rhd car.  Do it too quickly and you miss eco. I don't want to look down and I value tactile buttons.

My driving style then alternates between eco and sport which I select using the gear selector. Sport gives me everything I need at junctions and overtaking, eco gives me 41 mpg in mostly town driving.

So you have two cars: an impressively economical car that minimises wear and a beat-anything-else-on-the-road fire breather. Switch between them using that quaint old thing that looks like a retro gear lever.
Title: Re: When Eco mode isn't Eco mode....
Post by: Jim_mk7.5 on 08 March 2019, 14:45
How timely this debate is. I have only just discovered Eco mode after having had the car for a year (7.5 dsg pp). It really does test the skill of looking ahead and having your horizon in the distance.

It is a pain to have to press the mode button five times to return to eco. It is the most inaccessible button on a rhd car.  Do it too quickly and you miss eco. I don't want to look down and I value tactile buttons.

My driving style then alternates between eco and sport which I select using the gear selector. Sport gives me everything I need at junctions and overtaking, eco gives me 41 mpg in mostly town driving.

So you have two cars: an impressively economical car that minimises wear and a beat-anything-else-on-the-road fire breather. Switch between them using that quaint old thing that looks like a retro gear lever.

Press it once, then press the Eco button on the screen!
Title: Re: When Eco mode isn't Eco mode....
Post by: nigeldodd on 08 March 2019, 14:55
Thanks, but then I need to move my hand to a different place. It is no longer just a tactile manoeuvre. Also I'll need to clean the fingermark off the screen later.
Title: Re: When Eco mode isn't Eco mode....
Post by: mcmaddy on 08 March 2019, 18:13
More to the point why on earth do you want to drive in eco mode anyway!!
Title: Re: When Eco mode isn't Eco mode....
Post by: Watts on 08 March 2019, 19:35
More to the point why on earth do you want to drive in eco mode anyway!!

I don't get it either. I've tried it and it was terrible, no power to overtake and amazingly the economy wasn't any better :rolleyes:
Title: Re: When Eco mode isn't Eco mode....
Post by: Jim_mk7.5 on 08 March 2019, 19:55
Thanks, but then I need to move my hand to a different place. It is no longer just a tactile manoeuvre. Also I'll need to clean the fingermark off the screen later.

You should definitely get that massive screen removed your car then, quick.  :grin:
Title: Re: When Eco mode isn't Eco mode....
Post by: Zan on 08 March 2019, 21:47
Each to their own but I tried eco mode once and that didn't last long before it went back to normal/sport.
My only occasional nod towards eco driving is sometimes seeing what score i can get on the think blue jobby
Title: Re: When Eco mode isn't Eco mode....
Post by: mcmaddy on 09 March 2019, 08:24
I try that too but never ever in eco mode  :grin: best game is trying it in sport mode  :whistle:
Title: Re: When Eco mode isn't Eco mode....
Post by: nigeldodd on 09 March 2019, 18:44
The main reason, or really the only reason for me, is the disengagement of the engine when the car is coasting. It really does improve fuel economy. But for any junction or roundabout I will change to sport mode by pulling the lever back. The combination of the two works well for me.
Title: Re: When Eco mode isn't Eco mode....
Post by: Watts on 09 March 2019, 19:03
The main reason, or really the only reason for me, is the disengagement of the engine when the car is coasting. It really does improve fuel economy. But for any junction or roundabout I will change to sport mode by pulling the lever back. The combination of the two works well for me.

I thought engines didn't use fuel at all when you aren't on the accelerator, so long as it is in gear which is regardless of engine mode. If the engine is disengaged then surely it must be using some fuel to keep it running so that must be less economical?
Title: Re: When Eco mode isn't Eco mode....
Post by: Finglonga on 10 March 2019, 17:27


I thought engines didn't use fuel at all when you aren't on the accelerator, so long as it is in gear which is regardless of engine mode. If the engine is disengaged then surely it must be using some fuel to keep it running so that must be less economical?

Exactly, can never understand it as more fuel is used keeping the engine running. Always been more economical to me on Normal than Eco.
Title: Re: When Eco mode isn't Eco mode....
Post by: nigeldodd on 10 March 2019, 19:13
When the engine is connected to the wheels through the gearbox there is no fuel consumed on overrun, as you correctly say. The kinetic energy of the car is, however, reduced by compressing air in the cylinders of the engine and turning it into heat. Think how difficult it is to turn an engine over by hand.

When the engine is disconnected from the wheels it is true that a small amount of fuel is needed to keep the engine idling. However the power (energy times time) taken from the fuel is considerably less than the power (kinetic energy times time) taken from the car if it were connected to the wheels. This is simply provable by the increased speed of the engine which runs above idle when the engine is connected.

When I discovered Eco mode last week I was surprised and impressed by how far the car travels in E without the engine connected.
Title: Re: When Eco mode isn't Eco mode....
Post by: Watts on 10 March 2019, 19:18
When the engine is connected to the wheels through the gearbox there is no fuel consumed on overrun, as you correctly say. The kinetic energy of the car is, however, reduced by compressing air in the cylinders of the engine and turning it into heat. Think how difficult it is to turn an engine over by hand.

When the engine is disconnected from the wheels it is true that a small amount of fuel is needed to keep the engine idling. However the power (energy times time) taken from the fuel is considerably less than the power (kinetic energy times time) taken from the car if it were connected to the wheels. This is simply provable by the increased speed of the engine which runs above idle when the engine is connected.

When I discovered Eco mode last week I was surprised and impressed by how far the car travels in E without the engine connected.

Thanks for the detailed explanation :smiley:
Title: Re: When Eco mode isn't Eco mode....
Post by: nigeldodd on 10 March 2019, 19:23
Before anybody corrects me I must correct myself. Power is the rate of energy production or consumption. Power is energy per unit time, not as I said energy times time.