What are your .:Rs like in the snow?

[scanesare]

I'll just add a last word on the whole "Audi 80 on summers vs FWD on winters" story as it may be a bit funny but can't be used to draw conclusions at least not by anyone with a half-decent understanding/experience of driving on proper snow.

As I said earlier, it's perfectly possible to spin the wheels on a FWD with winters if you want to. It's even possible on a AWD with winters. There are several variables in that story that we don't know that could provide an explanation. What seems more probable to me is that the cars were parked on a very slippery surface. Setting off at an icy uphill can be quite tricky even with winters. At the French Alps, I was driving my FWD with winters fine through 1month's hardened accumulated snow, I was even going up and down 10% slopes without any issue ever but just once I parked it on a friend's slightly inclined yard at a time that half-melt snow was re-freezing. Leaving his place afterwards I wasn't able to get going without some pushing. Once going I did again everything without drama but I want to stress that setting off at the wrong combination of conditions can give you trouble even with winters and that is the only situation that AWD would give you some extra help. That does not prove AWD is preferred to winter tires when you have real snow on the road simply because setting off is one thing, but car control while moving is another with no help from AWD. I also have to add that unless your friend had just a very dirty parking area to start from and then everything was rather clean on the road, he should have never set off on a car with summer times if at the same time a car with winters was unable to start, corner or brake safely in the same conditions. This should be common knowledge.

As a bonus, have a look at the following video of testing an EVO and an STI with summers and then with winters:

https://youtu.be/uHKjXfbqc90

Based on one random story here and another member's enthusiasm I would expect the outcome to be "who needs winters" or at least "summers work fine for the most part". Well guess what.. I quote the narrator/test-driver: "(leaving summer tires on) is not something you want to do. This was a base run to see what these cars can do with summers and the answer is they don't do much. Even with AWD they just don't have any grip for accelerating, cornering or stopping"    Oops, time for some to give that car seller an angry call I guess... No surprise for the rest of us.

Also, don't forget these two are cars with AWD systems with multiple locking diffs and special modes for optimized torque distribution for all sorts of roads snow included (of-course with the proper tires on), miles ahead in performance from any Haldex clutch system and they miserably fail to be driveable with summer tires as you can see they are all over the place. Still, to this day every forum has their over-enthusiastic R/S3/xDrive owner who will buy none of this and claim his car to have powers that defy simple mechanics and common sense...

[I wanted a GTi]

I'll just add a last word on the whole "Audi 80 on summers vs FWD on winters" story as it may be a bit funny but can't be used to draw conclusions at least not by anyone with a half-decent understanding/experience of driving on proper snow.

As I said earlier, it's perfectly possible to spin the wheels on a FWD with winters if you want to. It's even possible on a AWD with winters. There are several variables in that story that we don't know that could provide an explanation. What seems more probable to me is that the cars were parked on a very slippery surface. Setting off at an icy uphill can be quite tricky even with winters. At the French Alps, I was driving my FWD with winters fine through 1month's hardened accumulated snow, I was even going up and down 10% slopes without any issue ever but just once I parked it on a friend's slightly inclined yard at a time that half-melt snow was re-freezing. Leaving his place afterwards I wasn't able to get going without some pushing. Once going I did again everything without drama but I want to stress that setting off at the wrong combination of conditions can give you trouble even with winters and that is the only situation that AWD would give you some extra help. That does not prove AWD is preferred to winter tires when you have real snow on the road simply because setting off is one thing, but car control while moving is another with no help from AWD. I also have to add that unless your friend had just a very dirty parking area to start from and then everything was rather clean on the road, he should have never set off on a car with summer times if at the same time a car with winters was unable to start, corner or brake safely in the same conditions. This should be common knowledge.

As a bonus, have a look at the following video of testing an EVO and an STI with summers and then with winters:

https://youtu.be/uHKjXfbqc90

Based on one random story here and another member's enthusiasm I would expect the outcome to be "who needs winters" or at least "summers work fine for the most part". Well guess what.. I quote the narrator/test-driver: "(leaving summer tires on) is not something you want to do. This was a base run to see what these cars can do with summers and the answer is they don't do much. Even with AWD they just don't have any grip for accelerating, cornering or stopping"    Oops, time for some to give that car seller an angry call I guess... No surprise for the rest of us.

Also, don't forget these two are cars with AWD systems with multiple locking diffs and special modes for optimized torque distribution for all sorts of roads snow included (of-course with the proper tires on), miles ahead in performance from any Haldex clutch system and they miserably fail to be driveable with summer tires as you can see they are all over the place. Still, to this day every forum has their over-enthusiastic R/S3/xDrive owner who will buy none of this and claim his car to have powers that defy simple mechanics and common sense...

I bow to your superior knowlage

I never said that winter tyres were not good, all I said was that sometimes they are not perfect. Also for what it's worth both cars were parked in a garage and he had about 30-40ft of run on the flat before going uphill.

[Daz Auto]

Found this on page 290 of my GTI Owners Manual -

"Winter or all-weather tyres improve the vehicle handling and brake response during winter conditions. Volkswagen recommends that winter tyres be fitted to the vehicle at temperatures below +7°C (+45°F) or in wintry conditions."

"Four-wheel drive (4MOTION)

Thanks to its four-wheel drive, the vehicle will have plenty of traction in winter conditions, even with the standard tyres. Nevertheless, Volkswagen still recommends that winter tyres or all-year tyres should be fitted on all 4 wheels in winter, mainly because this will give a better braking response."

 

[Daz Auto]

This is what VW have to say on their website -

http://www.volkswagen.co.uk/need-help/owners/winter-tyres-4motion

"Do I need winter tyres if my car has 4 Motion?

Volkswagen's 4 Motion definitely offers an advantage delivering drive to the road, although it's a mistake to think that 4 Motion means you don't need winter tyres. When they're fitted, winter tyres increase the 4 Motion advantage significantly and will make sure you get the best results out of your 4 Motion system. 4 Motion doesn't do much for steering and braking. Fitting winter tyres provides better drive, steering and braking."

[wigit]

I was driving home in the snowy/icy conditions earlier in the week and happily let the Mk3 Focus RS owner who was in more than a rush than I was through who was on the black option wheels so had Cup 2s, braver man than me (having left mine once on the R over winter)

Massively noticeable on a A road with lot of roundabouts that his breaking distance was extended and he just could not put the power down coming off roundabouts

[fredgroves]

Daz.... I bow to VW's superior knowledge 

[golfdave]

Found this on page 290 of my GTI Owners Manual -

"Winter or all-weather tyres improve the vehicle handling and brake response during winter conditions. Volkswagen recommends that winter tyres be fitted to the vehicle at temperatures below +7°C (+45°F) or in wintry conditions."

"Four-wheel drive (4MOTION)

Thanks to its four-wheel drive, the vehicle will have plenty of traction in winter conditions, even with the standard tyres. Nevertheless, Volkswagen still recommends that winter tyres or all-year tyres should be fitted on all 4 wheels in winter, mainly because this will give a better braking response."

 

Having driven various cars over 23yrs up here & having used winters for the past 7 to 8yrs I can confirm that the above is basic knowledge if you observe stuff....& take & interest...

Still can't belive people think that AWD/4WD on summers will beat 2wd on winters.....seen M135i RWD on winters cruise past Audi A4 quattros (RS) on summers..even beat up old 5series on winters pass Range Rovers...

[I wanted a GTi]

Found this on page 290 of my GTI Owners Manual -

"Winter or all-weather tyres improve the vehicle handling and brake response during winter conditions. Volkswagen recommends that winter tyres be fitted to the vehicle at temperatures below +7°C (+45°F) or in wintry conditions."

"Four-wheel drive (4MOTION)

Thanks to its four-wheel drive, the vehicle will have plenty of traction in winter conditions, even with the standard tyres. Nevertheless, Volkswagen still recommends that winter tyres or all-year tyres should be fitted on all 4 wheels in winter, mainly because this will give a better braking response."

 

Having driven various cars over 23yrs up here & having used winters for the past 7 to 8yrs I can confirm that the above is basic knowledge if you observe stuff....& take & interest...

Still can't belive people think that AWD/4WD on summers will beat 2wd on winters.....seen M135i RWD on winters cruise past Audi A4 quattros (RS) on summers..even beat up old 5series on winters pass Range Rovers...

I am astounded at the amount of snow driving God's there are on this forum.

[CHB100]

Found this on page 290 of my GTI Owners Manual -

"Winter or all-weather tyres improve the vehicle handling and brake response during winter conditions. Volkswagen recommends that winter tyres be fitted to the vehicle at temperatures below +7°C (+45°F) or in wintry conditions."

"Four-wheel drive (4MOTION)

Thanks to its four-wheel drive, the vehicle will have plenty of traction in winter conditions, even with the standard tyres. Nevertheless, Volkswagen still recommends that winter tyres or all-year tyres should be fitted on all 4 wheels in winter, mainly because this will give a better braking response."

 

Having driven various cars over 23yrs up here & having used winters for the past 7 to 8yrs I can confirm that the above is basic knowledge if you observe stuff....& take & interest...

Still can't belive people think that AWD/4WD on summers will beat 2wd on winters.....seen M135i RWD on winters cruise past Audi A4 quattros (RS) on summers..even beat up old 5series on winters pass Range Rovers...

Sorry, who on earth has said that. The R’s AWD pretty well negates the need for winter tyres for 90+% of Golf owners for most of the time. Ok head to head in severe conditions the winters will win a race, but my recent experience and first in The R was excellent although it was so bad Monday I wouldn’t have driven even with winters.
I have a friend with a FWD Fiesta who lives near Aberdeen and they have winter tyres and need them!!
Then they are guaranteed severe winters. So makes sense.

[Daz Auto]

The R’s AWD pretty well negates the need for winter tyres for 90+% of Golf owners for most of the time.

So you disagree with what Volkswagen say about 4WD and winter tyres?


*Play nice*