GolfGTIforum.co.uk
Model specific boards => Golf mk6 => Topic started by: centurian on 04 August 2011, 13:25
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Hi folks, I'm about to change my 2002 GT TDi for a newer (used) Golf and until recently was set on a 140bhp GT TDi but I then realised that the 170bhp was not too much more on the insurance and appears to deliver the same ecomony. In fact the only additonal running cost on the 170bhp seems to be that tyres (premium) cost around £50.00 each more then on the 140.
Can anyone advise please if servicing and running costs in general are more expensive on the GTD over the 140 models? Any other considerations/tips that may influence which car I go for are welcome.
Also, do either of these models have fancy air con units etc that may require expensive maintenance costs at any point please? (NB, If I could afford a bespoke Golf I would acutally not have a/con but I realise I'm in the minority here.)
Lastly - is the petrol 1.4 GT TSi worth considering? (I like Golfs but seek a model that is economical to run with low maintenance costs but also that delivers fun perfomance as & when. Don;t we all!!)
Regards
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Hello, welcome and good luck. :smiley:
There are others far more qualified to answer the specifics in running a Diesel Golf but I will say this, avoid the 1.4 TSI unless going for the turbo only low powered model.
The 1.4 twin charged unit is going to be a nightmare when in warranty and a mill stone round your neck when the warranty finishes. Join seatcupra.net and have a look at the mk5 Ibiza section to see the problems people have been having with these amazing engines. VW have modified lots of bits but I wouldn't trust one that is going to go past the warranty period. Admittedly this doesn't apply to every engine, and there have been many that have had no problems. But I wouldn't trust one with my own money.
On the other hand the 1.4 TSI is often offered with a few discounts, but to me this can be worrying too as VW don't discount something unless it is a very slow seller!!
VW aircon is no more troublesome than any other aircon. It needs to be used regularly to keep all the seals doing their job properly. The GTD somes with fancy automatic dual climate aircon which has lots of parts extra to the basic aircon. So potentially lots to go wrong. Most people prefer the dual climate thingy but I prefer the standard aircon.
A lot of mk5 Golfs suffered aircon compressor issues but I think they are a reasonably cheap fix when out of warranty as long as you go to a decent aftermarket specialist. Having said that I sold my mk5 when the aircon started playing up!!
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Info on the 1.4 TSI
http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=201132.0
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GT TDI is a fine car - I needed the GTD for R&D - just get the car you like best :wink:
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Used gt 140's are much better value than hard to get Gtd's so it just a case of trying to justify the difference in spec and the £3000+ difference for the same age car. I would still buy a Gtd tho : ) unless you can find a nice specced gt 140. Do not buy a gt1.4tsi could be issues as Andy said out of warranty and very poor economy and resale value at any age.
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Oh and economy very similar, I achieved 70.3 mpg on a 16 mile journey today in the Gtd dsg demo I drive.
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Oh and economy very similar, I achieved 70.3 mpg on a 16 mile journey today in the Gtd dsg demo I drive.
Good man :wink:
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GTD all the way, my first long life service was only £130 if I remember rightly, so no different than a 140 I expect. The economy is definetly good even though the figures for the 140 match the 170 I am positive the 140 would be more economical. But I went from a 140 GT TDI mk5 and the economy is the same as that really. But its faster and has a much nicer GTI esk interior and exterior.
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Thanks for all the replies folks. Much to consider. Have decided will be sticking to deisel & will wait to see if a 140 or a 170 within my price range appears first.
Anyone any thoughts on whether a MK6 is a much superior motor to the MK5 (or is there not a lot in it...)
regards
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Thanks for all the replies folks. Much to consider. Have decided will be sticking to deisel & will wait to see if a 140 or a 170 within my price range appears first.
Anyone any thoughts on whether a MK6 is a much superior motor to the MK5 (or is there not a lot in it...)
regards
Mk6 is much more refined and a better drive imo gtd with dsg is just brilliant car :cool:
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The TDI CR(common rail) engine in the mk6 is superior to the PD unit in the mk5 for smoothness and power delivery imho.
I was going to post very similar opinion to what EVO did the other day except its all down to personal choice and how you use the car to me personally the GT would be the better choice.
Used gt 140's are much better value than hard to get Gtd's so it just a case of trying to justify the difference in spec and the £3000+ difference for the same age car. I would still buy a Gtd tho : ) unless you can find a nice specced gt 140. Do not buy a gt1.4tsi could be issues as Andy said out of warranty and very poor economy and resale value at any age.
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Test Drive, Test Drive, Test Drive!
PS Good choice avoiding the 1.4!
PPS. If still unsure Test Drive some more!
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Welcome to the forum. (http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a121/KStanier/VWwelcome.gif)
I'm about to change my 2002 GT TDi for a newer (used) Golf and until recently was set on a 140bhp GT TDi but I then realised that the 170bhp was not too much more on the insurance and appears to deliver the same ecomony.
Well the first misconception 140PS and 170PS not bhp which is a couple of bhp less.
If you want the extra horses they make the GT TDI 170PS there were a couple at my dealers last week I didn't notice the price? Or you can have the 140PS chipped to 170PS.
You haven't said how much you want to spend?
It all comes down to getting the best package at the budget you can afford?
Try for a GT 140PS at least you get cruise control as standard with them?
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Welcome to the forum. (http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a121/KStanier/VWwelcome.gif)
I'm about to change my 2002 GT TDi for a newer (used) Golf and until recently was set on a 140bhp GT TDi but I then realised that the 170bhp was not too much more on the insurance and appears to deliver the same ecomony.
Well the first misconception 140PS and 170PS not bhp which is a couple of bhp less.
If you want the extra horses they make the GT TDI 170PS there were a couple at my dealers last week I didn't notice the price? Or you can have the 140PS chipped to 170PS.
You haven't said how much you want to spend?
It all comes down to getting the best package at the budget you can afford?
Try for a GT 140PS at least you get cruise control as standard with them?
VW make a MK6 GT 170PS? Really? Surely not...
Either way go for the GTD, there good cars...go for it.
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If you want the extra horses they make the GT TDI 170PS there were a couple at my dealers last week I didn't notice the price?
VW make a MK6 GT 170PS? Really? Surely not...
Either way go for the GTD, there good cars...go for it.
Yes they do as I said there where 2 at my dealers last week.
2011 11 VW Golf 2.0 GT TDI 5Dr 170ps DSG (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2011-11-VW-Golf-2-0-GT-TDI-5Dr-170ps-DSG-/190456171117?pt=Automobiles_UK&hash=item2c58128a6d)
They did make it in a MK5 GT 170PS as well. Other than that he has a 140PS chipped to 170PS.
Until we know his price bracket the GTD maybe a bit out of it?
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Price range I'm looking at is circa £15k. I'm more interested in the car being a 1-owner low mileage version however so prepared to pay a bit more for a better example (Value for money rather then cost is my theory.)
I've spoken with several main dealers recently about which car to go for and - to be honest - their advice has to be taken with a pinch of salt as they just want you to buy what they have in. I've done a bit of research lately and found conflicting information so hence I'm on this forum. For example i'm sure I've read that the 170ps version is only available in Mk6 but a dealer local to me is advertising a Mk5 version.
My main concern about the 170ps is simply that I've been advised it will cost more to run and as it appears to have more kit there is clearly more to go wrong.
NB, what does the 'ps' mean please - eg, 170ps I thought was 170 bhp (although I realised 'ps' does not literally stand for 'bhp')
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I could give a long answer about BHP, HP and PS and diff measuring standards, giving there true meening and how they differ but the simple slightly incorrect answer is to look at PS as been the metric equivelent of BHP.
Multiply PS figure by 0.9864 to reach the BHP figure.
The mk5 GT TDI was available with a 140PS and a 170PS version of the 2.0 TDI PD(Pumpe-Düse Injection) Engine.
The PD engines are much different in caracter and power delivery to the 2.0 TDI CR(common rail Injection) used in the Mk6.
So you would have to drive them to see if you would be happy with a PD. The PD is much less progressive with there power delivery than the Mk6's CR units. Some prefer the older PD units as they can feel faster due to there power delivery.
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Welcome to the forum. (http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a121/KStanier/VWwelcome.gif)
I'm about to change my 2002 GT TDi for a newer (used) Golf and until recently was set on a 140bhp GT TDi but I then realised that the 170bhp was not too much more on the insurance and appears to deliver the same ecomony.
Well the first misconception 140PS and 170PS not bhp which is a couple of bhp less.
If you want the extra horses they make the GT TDI 170PS there were a couple at my dealers last week I didn't notice the price? Or you can have the 140PS chipped to 170PS.
You haven't said how much you want to spend?
It all comes down to getting the best package at the budget you can afford?
Try for a GT 140PS at least you get cruise control as standard with them?
Do you think they are mis builds, like whoops we installed the wrong engine. You can't spec it on the VW website.
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The Ebay advert is a confirned mistake, the 170PS engine for the MK6 is only available in a GTD.
Here's a good looking deal for a 2010 GT...
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201131408064091/sort/pricedesc/usedcars/engine-size-cars/2l_to_2-5l/maximum-age/up_to_2_years_old/price-to/16000/price-from/14000/transmission/automatic/fuel-type/diesel/model/golf/make/volkswagen/postcode/ip333nt/page/1/radius/1501?logcode=p
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NB, what does the 'ps' mean please - eg, 170ps I thought was 170 bhp (although I realised 'ps' does not literally stand for 'bhp')
PS is (was) a German DIN measure of power and means Pferde Starke (Horse Power) As Snoopy points out it is best desribed as "metric" bhp. Power is expressed now as kW, although most car manufacturers still hang on to the old PS measure as it's what everyone understands.
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Simple advice "Circa £15k" is not going to get you a mk6 170ps gtd. So its 140ps gt mk6 golf or mk5 gt sports in either 140 or 170 form.
I would much rather a mk6 gt 140 than a noisy mk5 140/170 gt sport power delivery is so much better in cr mk6's instead of the peaky delivery of pd's.
Spec wise standard for standard on the mk6 you will also gain cruise control, multifunction steering wheel, mdi(ipod/usb/aux connection), front centre armrest. Although lose automatic headlights, rain sensitive wipers, auto dimming rear view mirror and leather in some later mk5's.
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And going from the OPs requirement of less things to go wrong the lack of auto lights and dimming mirrors may be a bonus!
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My thoughts:
MK6 GT TDi (140PS) - a competent hatch. Sports suspension, 17" wheels, Alcantara seats, diesel for solid residual and good mileage.
MK6 GT (160PS) - another competent hatch, but could suffer engine problems depending on the age of car you find.
I've driven both and in my opinion the petrol 160PS is far far more refined, however I can't ignore the petrol engine problems. So my recommendation would be:
- You drive lots of A-road/motorway miles, get the MK6 GT TDi.
- You drive average or below average miles, get the petrol 122PS model with the optional 17" wheels (ADDED AT THE FACTORY, as this adds sports suspension) and possible save some of your £15,000 budget, depends on age/mileage.
- WILDCARD, try a 140 or 170PS MK5 GT-SPORT (Petrol) these Euro 4 engines are generally very good and definately save some of your budget.
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In fact the only additonal running cost on the 170bhp seems to be that tyres (premium) cost around £50.00 each more then on the 140.
Maybe I'm reading this wrong but my 140 GT has the same size / make tyres as the 170 GTD so not sure where you get the extra £50?
Both come with 225 45 17 tyres as standard or they can be upgraded to 225 40 18
If cost is an issue to you then be aware that you could acctually buy the cheaper 140 but have dearer tyres on them!!
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In fact the only additonal running cost on the 170bhp seems to be that tyres (premium) cost around £50.00 each more then on the 140.
Maybe I'm reading this wrong but my 140 GT has the same size / make tyres as the 170 GTD so not sure where you get the extra £50?
Both come with 225 45 17 tyres as standard or they can be upgraded to 225 40 18
If cost is an issue to you then be aware that you could acctually buy the cheaper 140 but have dearer tyres on them!!
I think he may have been refering to his current 2002 Golf which is probably on 15's.
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All the Mk6 140ps GT TDi I have seen at main dealers come with 205/55 R16 tyres which I've priced up as being about £30 -£60 cheaper then R17s (like for like of course).
Thanks all for the input on this thread by the way.
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Then they have the wrong wheels on! 17's are standard on gt
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All the Mk6 140ps GT TDi I have seen at main dealers come with 205/55 R16 tyres which I've priced up as being about £30 -£60 cheaper then R17s (like for like of course).
Thanks all for the input on this thread by the way.
Defo incorrect; sorry. Standard on the GT are Porto 17" wheels; with a couple of 18" options (Vancouver and Bilbao). Standard on GTD are 17" Seattle Shadow; with couple of 18" options (Vancouvers or Charleston Shadow) depending upon age.
FWIW: I have a GT 140 and rate it very highly. I have the Vancouvers and the handling is very similar to the GTD (a tad more roll perhaps). Has great steering on the 18"s. The engine loosens up nicely and certainly ain't slow in real world driving and has excellent pull on motorway slips / overtaking etc. I get real world average consumption over 53mpg easily, and on long runs up the country can easily get indicated 62mpg + and I don't dawdle. GTD will be more so on the power front, but not sure what real world mpg is. They do look nice with the bigger spoiler and GTI style bumpers, but a nicely spec'd GT is pretty close in my opinon. I've seen a few 09 GT140s in the 15k area; so should be able to choose your colour / wheel preference farely easily.
Good luck with whichever you go for, and don't forget pics!
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Thanks,
Pics may be a problem - will have to check out on how to get 'em on the forum. Pretty sure it'll be a Mk6 140bhp.
Nb, Have had golfs for the last 10-yrs and like them. Never considered myself an enthusiast as I simply do not know what goes on under the bonnet so, in my opinion I just driver them (I do clean them, check oil, water etc)
My neighbour is/was a mechanic and trained about 20-yrs ago when the cars where mechanical and even he can't offer much advice as now they are computer based.
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Hope I don't get thrown off this site for my next comment but - how does the SEAT Leon's compare in your opinions? Thanks
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Hope I don't get thrown off this site for my next comment but - how does the SEAT Leon's compare in your opinions? Thanks
Now your'e talking my language! You can get a Leon 2.0 TDI SE or Sport through a broker such as Drive the Deal for between £17k and £18k brand new, or a 140 TDI FR for about £800 or so more. You can get a Leon FR+ 170 TDI for under £20k which comes with Xenons, bluetooth and nav.
The FR+ is a hell of a lot of car for the money but if your main concern is the likely cost of replacement parts in 10 years time maybe it's not for you. Maybe a Vauxhall with a lifetime warranty is more up your street?
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Spent the last few weeks not being able to find a sutiable car but hoping one may appear now the new registrations are out. 99% sure I'm gonna go with a GT TDi Golf but may look at a Seat Leon FR just for the hell of it.
I know that product reviews are to be taken with a pinch of salt but a few reports I've readabout the Mk5 and Mk6 GT TDi indicate that owners have found the seats to be not as supportive/good as you might expect. Is there any long term owners of these vehicles willing to give their view on this please? (If I get a car I tend to keep hold a while so could do with something that's excellent on the comfort/long drive front.)
Also what's the SEAT like for a comfort perspective please?
Reason I ask about the comfort aspect is that with a test drive etc. you're not in the car long enough but to get an impression and I doubt they'd let me sit in one for an afternoon.
Thanks
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I've personally found the seats extremely comfortable for my back and very easy on a long journey.
What I have noticed though is that the back of my thighs become very tired after a while and I have to wriggle about a bit for the feeling to go away. It may just be a coincidence but I've never had it in any other car.
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I don't think the seats are as comfortable or as well made in my GTD as they were in my MKV GTI. I find that the lumbar support feels a bit lumpy and creaks when you try adjusting it! I haven't got round to mentioning it to the dealers yet.
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I've got no complaints about the seats in the GT. I struggle to get decent under thigh support in all cars, so that will always be an issue for me. However, I do find the standard cruise control on the GT useful on longer journeys, as it allows me to wriggle my right leg about from time to time.
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Thanks all. The other thing I don't understand is the fixation with wheel sizes - that a larger tyre size can make the car perform differently in respect of performance and comfort. Any comments again appreciated.
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Thanks all. The other thing I don't understand is the fixation with wheel sizes - that a larger tyre size can make the car perform differently in respect of performance and comfort. Any comments again appreciated.
Apart from maybe a bit of extra width there isn't that much you change with the wheel and tyre combo. The bigger wheel you fit just means the sidewall of the tyre is smaller as the overall circumfrence of the wheel and tyre has to stay more or less identical.
A 16'' wheel will give you cheap tyres and a more comfortable ride (assuming you don't fit really wide 16'' tyres) and better fuel economy (less drag and weight) whereas a 19'' wheel will provide you with hideously expensive tyres, sharper steering and a choppier ride quality. 17'' and 18'' with be in between those two extremes.
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I think Exonian summed up the technical element really concisely. For most people however, larger wheels are chosen for asthetic reasons. Cars are getting bigger, and so have wheels to stay in proportion.
In my sig pic, you'll see my Mk6 with 18" wheels and my very much smaller Mk2 with 15" wheels. In my opinion, both sets of wheels suit the cars they are fitted on very well.